Less than 50% of Scots now registered with NHS dentist
Under half of all adults in Scotland are registered with an NHS dentist.
However there has been a rise in the number of people registered for treatment, and also an increase in the total of NHS dentists working in Scotland.
Official statistics showed that at the end of September last year 48.6% of adults, a total of 1,975,181 people, were registered.
And for children under the age of 18 the total was 734,174 - or 69.9% of this age group.
That is an increase from June 2006, when 46.5% of adults and 67.5% of youngsters were registered.
The statistics also revealed a 2.7% increase in the number of health service dentists over the year, going from 2,842 on September 30 2006 to 2,919 on the same date last year.
Public health minister Shona Robison described the figures as "really encouraging".
Speaking on a visit to the Chalmers Street Dental Centre in Edinburgh she said: "I am very pleased that more people are now registered with an NHS dentist than have been for a number of years."
Ms Robison insisted: "The Scottish Government is absolutely committed to widening access to NHS dentistry.
"But I am not complacent - I know there is still much more to be done and some parts of Scotland still have problems with access to an NHS dentist.
"I am confident that the strategies we have in place, and new developments coming on stream such as the Aberdeen Dental School, will continue to drive improvements like we are seeing in today's figures."
Ms Robison said the government was developing outreach dental training centres across Scotland and added that the number of dental students in training was increasing, with a further rise to come after the opening of the Aberdeen dental school.
The Liberal Democrats said these figures showed only a "minor" rise in NHS dentists and patients.
Health spokesman Ross Finnie said: "These figures are not very encouraging given Scotland's poor oral health record.
"The Scottish Government must do more to increase the number of dentists in Scotland."
It should ensure a new dental school was built in Aberdeen - and that this was staffed without affecting the other dental schools, he said.
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Posted by: Celtic Lion, Roar on 1:32pm Tue 29 Jan 08
The availability of NHS dentists is dreadful. I'm glad that, on this issue at least, Labour are keeping their mouths shut ([italic]boom boom[/italic] ).
The availability of NHS dentists is dreadful. I'm glad that, on this issue at least, Labour are keeping their mouths shut (
boom boom ).
Posted by: Celtic Lion, Not just attractive, but hilarious too on 2:09pm Tue 29 Jan 08
When asked about the [italic]wisdom[/italic] of Labour dental policies during the past ten years, Wendy said it was a "still a [italic]sore[/italic] point."
Oh boom boom again. I just keep knocking them out for unrequited love. Somebody stop me!
When asked about the
wisdom of Labour dental policies during the past ten years, Wendy said it was a "still a
sore point."
Oh boom boom again. I just keep knocking them out for unrequited love. Somebody stop me!
Posted by: spagan, heisker, scotland on 2:38pm Tue 29 Jan 08
Some of the horror stories of folk on little (or no) income having to pay 80 pounds for a tooth extraction are an anathema in this day and age in one of the richest countries in the world.
The Westminster Government have created a low tax economy that means human beings would be bettter going to the PDSA Vet to get treatment!!
Blame the Labour Party pursuing 'social justice' (hah! hah!) - I doubt if Tony and Cherie have a problem paying to go private? Or is it greedy dentists who'd rather do cosmetic work for the beautiful rich?
It would be interesting to know how many MPs, MEPs and MSPs continue to use the underfunded NHS.
Some of the horror stories of folk on little (or no) income having to pay 80 pounds for a tooth extraction are an anathema in this day and age in one of the richest countries in the world.
The Westminster Government have created a low tax economy that means human beings would be bettter going to the PDSA Vet to get treatment!!
Blame the Labour Party pursuing 'social justice' (hah! hah!) - I doubt if Tony and Cherie have a problem paying to go private? Or is it greedy dentists who'd rather do cosmetic work for the beautiful rich?
It would be interesting to know how many MPs, MEPs and MSPs continue to use the underfunded NHS.
Posted by: Celtic Lion, Roar on 2:46pm Tue 29 Jan 08
Well, as nobody is laughing at my hilarities (somebody please take pity and laugh) ...
Those who are on little or no income (like me, I'm povo in case I haven't mentioned it before!) should get themselves off to a dental hospital if they need a tooth extraction. I had to do that last year to get a couple of wisdom teeth out (I swear I hardly shed a tear) and it didn't cost anymore than the bus fare.
New Labour, New Socialism. They've been just great haven't they?
Well, as nobody is laughing at my hilarities (somebody please take pity and laugh) ...
Those who are on little or no income (like me, I'm povo in case I haven't mentioned it before!) should get themselves off to a dental hospital if they need a tooth extraction. I had to do that last year to get a couple of wisdom teeth out (I swear I hardly shed a tear) and it didn't cost anymore than the bus fare.
New Labour, New Socialism. They've been just great haven't they?
Posted by: PaulW, Borders on 2:47pm Tue 29 Jan 08
Incredible! Ross Finnie takes this opportunity to state that "[italic]The Scottish Government must do more to increase the number of dentists in Scotland[/italic] " and that there is only a modest increase.
Errr, yes, Ross. They are doing something about it, like opening a new dental school in Aberdeen and outreach dental training centres around the country. That is more than the Lib Dems and Labour did in 8 years. Regarding the modest increase, given that these data are from June 2007 (one month after the Election that ousted his cronies) perhaps Ross will wait to see what the figures are for June 2008 before commenting in the negative.
I am very happy (as someone who is looking for an NHS dentist to register with) that at last we have a Government that is doing something serious about this, so well done Ms Robison.
Quite a contrast to Ross Finnie and his toothless, London led regime.
Incredible! Ross Finnie takes this opportunity to state that "
The Scottish Government must do more to increase the number of dentists in Scotland " and that there is only a modest increase.
Errr, yes, Ross. They are doing something about it, like opening a new dental school in Aberdeen and outreach dental training centres around the country. That is more than the Lib Dems and Labour did in 8 years. Regarding the modest increase, given that these data are from June 2007 (one month after the Election that ousted his cronies) perhaps Ross will wait to see what the figures are for June 2008 before commenting in the negative.
I am very happy (as someone who is looking for an NHS dentist to register with) that at last we have a Government that is doing something serious about this, so well done Ms Robison.
Quite a contrast to Ross Finnie and his toothless, London led regime.
Posted by: sam, greenock on 2:56pm Tue 29 Jan 08
Ross Finnie another waste of space purporting to represent Inverclyde..........
....................
.back to puting your head in the sand now Ross there's a good boy.
P.S Dad's Army finished years ago, no need for Capt. Mainwaring impressions anymore
Ross Finnie another waste of space purporting to represent Inverclyde..........
....................
.back to puting your head in the sand now Ross there's a good boy.
P.S Dad's Army finished years ago, no need for Capt. Mainwaring impressions anymore
Posted by: Politically-incorrec
t Man, Glasgow on 3:06pm Tue 29 Jan 08
It was a political decision that we would not have a Dental Service that was free of charge to all (unlike the rest of the NHS).
It has led to a system where only the rich and the very poor (who get it free) really have access to routine dental care. The rest of us have to calculate whether we can afford it.
If the government can supply doctors to provide free medical care for all, why can it not adopt the same policy regarding dental health?
It all boils down to money. So spare us the ministerial crocodile tears.
It was a political decision that we would not have a Dental Service that was free of charge to all (unlike the rest of the NHS).
It has led to a system where only the rich and the very poor (who get it free) really have access to routine dental care. The rest of us have to calculate whether we can afford it.
If the government can supply doctors to provide free medical care for all, why can it not adopt the same policy regarding dental health?
It all boils down to money. So spare us the ministerial crocodile tears.
Posted by: Celtic Lion, Roar on 3:09pm Tue 29 Jan 08
I can assure you the very poor do not receive free routine dental care.
I can assure you the very poor do not receive free routine dental care.
Posted by: Politically-incorrec
t Man, Glasgow on 3:28pm Tue 29 Jan 08
I think you will find the very poor are entitled to free treatment.
The categories for free treatment include
* Under 18
* 18 but in full-time education
* Pregnant or having given birth within the last 12 months
* Receiving state benefits or with a partner receiving benefits (such as income support, job seekers allowance or tax credits)
If you are on a low income but do not receive either of these benefits you may still be eligible for help with payments for which you will need an HC2 certificate (available by filling in an HC1 form).
It is worth picking up forms HC11 and HC12 from any Post Office to check your personal entitlements. Or telephone the ‘Help with Health Costs Helpline’ on 0845 850 1166
I think you will find the very poor are entitled to free treatment.
The categories for free treatment include
* Under 18
* 18 but in full-time education
* Pregnant or having given birth within the last 12 months
* Receiving state benefits or with a partner receiving benefits (such as income support, job seekers allowance or tax credits)
If you are on a low income but do not receive either of these benefits you may still be eligible for help with payments for which you will need an HC2 certificate (available by filling in an HC1 form).
It is worth picking up forms HC11 and HC12 from any Post Office to check your personal entitlements. Or telephone the ‘Help with Health Costs Helpline’ on 0845 850 1166
Posted by: Celtic Lion, Roar on 3:34pm Tue 29 Jan 08
I've been informed a number of times that, being on long term disability, I am not eligible for free treatment. I know that unemployment can get a number of extra benefits but oddly disability doesn't.
However, if anyone has experience of the opposite to tell me I'm wrong I would love to know because I've been told I'm not eligible at the dentist and government help lines.
I've been informed a number of times that, being on long term disability, I am not eligible for free treatment. I know that unemployment can get a number of extra benefits but oddly disability doesn't.
However, if anyone has experience of the opposite to tell me I'm wrong I would love to know because I've been told I'm not eligible at the dentist and government help lines.
Posted by: Politically-incorrec
t Man, Glasgow on 3:55pm Tue 29 Jan 08
I predicate my info above with the personal observation that all these "exemption" systems seem to be constructed to make it difficult for the applicant to get what he/she is entitled to, and that ignorance apathy and lack of sympathy are rife amongst those who administer them.
I predicate my info above with the personal observation that all these "exemption" systems seem to be constructed to make it difficult for the applicant to get what he/she is entitled to, and that ignorance apathy and lack of sympathy are rife amongst those who administer them.
Posted by: Celtic Lion, Roar on 4:05pm Tue 29 Jan 08
Well I dislike claiming benefits but last year, when a wisdom tooth started to give me real pain, I went to my local dentist. They had no NHS places and when I explained my situation they told me there is ... well they told me pretty much what I wrote above. I suspected they were telling me porkies so telephoned the benefits line and they told me the same thing. I've been told the same for something else some time ago (can't for the life of me remember what).
As I said, would be interested to hear if anyone has a different experience (cue the trolls!).
Well I dislike claiming benefits but last year, when a wisdom tooth started to give me real pain, I went to my local dentist. They had no NHS places and when I explained my situation they told me there is ... well they told me pretty much what I wrote above. I suspected they were telling me porkies so telephoned the benefits line and they told me the same thing. I've been told the same for something else some time ago (can't for the life of me remember what).
As I said, would be interested to hear if anyone has a different experience (cue the trolls!).
Posted by: Peter Thomson, Unionists, where? on 4:30pm Tue 29 Jan 08
Joke and his Pal Andy promised to import 1200 dentists into Scotland by October 2006.
In 1989 I and a number of concerned dentists met with the then Conservative Minster with responsibilty for NHS dentistry to be told the profession had agreed with the closure of dental schools and the 1990 dental contract - inspite of dentists voting 3:1 against both decisions.
In 1989 I wrote a paper projecting the outcome of the decision made in 1988 and suggested the then Government was selling a Rolls Royce service while paying for Lada level services.
Given Government attitude is it any surprise that the early 90's saw more and more dentists ditching NHS contracts. We knew all the Government were interested in doing was screwing us over so it was time to get off the NHS Dental Titanic before we went down with the ship.
But of course we were 'greedy dentists' in doing so and should have simply let ourselves be shafted by subsequent governments to the point we disappeared anyway. Heads we loose, tails we loose and so have the general public.
The new program will do little to reverse the decline as only 40% of dentists qualifying in Glasgow or Dundee will remain in Scotland and of them only 3% are looking to provide NHS care long term. The out reach will have little impact on NHS service delivery as it will be carried out by final year dental students.
The myth of NHS dentistry in its present format needs to be killed and a completely different public dental health structure relying on auxiliaries needs to be put in place. The NHS dental stable door is wide open and the dentists have long since bolted - time to get real folks this plan will do little and change nothing
Joke and his Pal Andy promised to import 1200 dentists into Scotland by October 2006.
In 1989 I and a number of concerned dentists met with the then Conservative Minster with responsibilty for NHS dentistry to be told the profession had agreed with the closure of dental schools and the 1990 dental contract - inspite of dentists voting 3:1 against both decisions.
In 1989 I wrote a paper projecting the outcome of the decision made in 1988 and suggested the then Government was selling a Rolls Royce service while paying for Lada level services.
Given Government attitude is it any surprise that the early 90's saw more and more dentists ditching NHS contracts. We knew all the Government were interested in doing was screwing us over so it was time to get off the NHS Dental Titanic before we went down with the ship.
But of course we were 'greedy dentists' in doing so and should have simply let ourselves be shafted by subsequent governments to the point we disappeared anyway. Heads we loose, tails we loose and so have the general public.
The new program will do little to reverse the decline as only 40% of dentists qualifying in Glasgow or Dundee will remain in Scotland and of them only 3% are looking to provide NHS care long term. The out reach will have little impact on NHS service delivery as it will be carried out by final year dental students.
The myth of NHS dentistry in its present format needs to be killed and a completely different public dental health structure relying on auxiliaries needs to be put in place. The NHS dental stable door is wide open and the dentists have long since bolted - time to get real folks this plan will do little and change nothing
Posted by: spagan, heisker, scotland on 4:35pm Tue 29 Jan 08
Or we introduce a system that ensures that graduates work for the NHS for a period of time - before creaming it in the private sector.
Or perhaps Thatcher was right about there being no such thing as society? As long as you can pay - you can get your teeth made more and more 'beautiful'. If you can't pay, then see if your local barber can dig out the pliers of yesteryear!
Or we introduce a system that ensures that graduates work for the NHS for a period of time - before creaming it in the private sector.
Or perhaps Thatcher was right about there being no such thing as society? As long as you can pay - you can get your teeth made more and more 'beautiful'. If you can't pay, then see if your local barber can dig out the pliers of yesteryear!
Posted by: Politically-incorrec
t Man, Glasgow on 4:46pm Tue 29 Jan 08
The "man in the street" has no concept of the financial realities of running a dental practice and the nation as a whole has no idea of how much they need to pay to get a reasonable standard of dental treatment.
The old "item of service" scale of fees was constructed to stop "cowboys" abusing the system and it made progressively harder for dentists with any standards and ethics to remain in the system. Capitation and other tinkering since then were attempts to resuscitate a beast that was already dead.
I agree with Peter Thomson that fundamental change is required but don't think that those at the top have the nous to take things forwards.
The "man in the street" has no concept of the financial realities of running a dental practice and the nation as a whole has no idea of how much they need to pay to get a reasonable standard of dental treatment.
The old "item of service" scale of fees was constructed to stop "cowboys" abusing the system and it made progressively harder for dentists with any standards and ethics to remain in the system. Capitation and other tinkering since then were attempts to resuscitate a beast that was already dead.
I agree with Peter Thomson that fundamental change is required but don't think that those at the top have the nous to take things forwards.
Posted by: Celtic Lion, Roar on 5:26pm Tue 29 Jan 08
The NHS as a whole is a funny beast which probably needs run over, reversed over, run over again, then given some major private health care reconstruction.
If the NHS were to give me the treatment I need I would be able to return to work and start paying the mega-taxes on a high salary again. Because they wont I'm poor poor poor and costing the state more than that NHS treatment would cost. Wacky people in wacky high up jobs don't have a wacky clue with real life, that's (one reason) why it's in such a state.
(No offence to the NHS workers by the way, except the wacky top salary people I refer to.)
The NHS as a whole is a funny beast which probably needs run over, reversed over, run over again, then given some major private health care reconstruction.
If the NHS were to give me the treatment I need I would be able to return to work and start paying the mega-taxes on a high salary again. Because they wont I'm poor poor poor and costing the state more than that NHS treatment would cost. Wacky people in wacky high up jobs don't have a wacky clue with real life, that's (one reason) why it's in such a state.
(No offence to the NHS workers by the way, except the wacky top salary people I refer to.)
Posted by: Peter Thomson, Unionists, where? on 6:27pm Tue 29 Jan 08
In an average private dental surgery on a turn over of £250,000, 60% goes in fixed costs. A sensible practitioner will set aside 10% of turn over for re-investment in the practice leaving around £80,000 for personal drawings. This will be on around a 37 to 42 hour week including surgery time and admin time.
Acording to the BDA current tax returns show private dentists take home to be around £1,000 a year more than NHS dentists. Hardly the 'greedy dentists' of Labour propaganda.
So what private dentists are doing is spending more time doing the job properly and meeting patient's needs rather than rushing folk through and hoping things will last to next time as is the norm in the NHS.
So that's the choice: do the job you were professionally trained to do or bodge and hope for the best.
By the way; the biggest number of claims made against dentists for poor treatment is in the first five years after qualification when most are working within the pressures and strictures of NHS dentistry.
Maybe when those who want 'compulsory NHS for new graduates' should think more carefully about what they wish themselves
In an average private dental surgery on a turn over of £250,000, 60% goes in fixed costs. A sensible practitioner will set aside 10% of turn over for re-investment in the practice leaving around £80,000 for personal drawings. This will be on around a 37 to 42 hour week including surgery time and admin time.
Acording to the BDA current tax returns show private dentists take home to be around £1,000 a year more than NHS dentists. Hardly the 'greedy dentists' of Labour propaganda.
So what private dentists are doing is spending more time doing the job properly and meeting patient's needs rather than rushing folk through and hoping things will last to next time as is the norm in the NHS.
So that's the choice: do the job you were professionally trained to do or bodge and hope for the best.
By the way; the biggest number of claims made against dentists for poor treatment is in the first five years after qualification when most are working within the pressures and strictures of NHS dentistry.
Maybe when those who want 'compulsory NHS for new graduates' should think more carefully about what they wish themselves
Posted by: OHO, Glasgow on 7:13pm Tue 29 Jan 08
The cost of being on a private plan is between £10 and £20 per month - that's less than 4 packs of fags per month; 4 bottles of buckfast or 5 deep fried mars bar suppers.....
That would leave the NHS places to those who have greatest need. The value of having good teeth in terms of health/pain; job prospects (cos you will never get a good job if you have a mouth of rotting blackness); self confidence; not repelling friends with your dog breath.....worth every penny!
The cost of being on a private plan is between £10 and £20 per month - that's less than 4 packs of fags per month; 4 bottles of buckfast or 5 deep fried mars bar suppers.....
That would leave the NHS places to those who have greatest need. The value of having good teeth in terms of health/pain; job prospects (cos you will never get a good job if you have a mouth of rotting blackness); self confidence; not repelling friends with your dog breath.....worth every penny!
Posted by: Strathturret, Montrose on 8:05pm Tue 29 Jan 08
I remember a minister in the old Lab-Lib Executive give his solution to the Dentist problem; he was a Liberal but I can't remember who. It was to ' Import dentists from Poland'. I couldn't believe it.
Closing Edinburgh Dentistry school was a bad move.
Another union benefit?
I remember a minister in the old Lab-Lib Executive give his solution to the Dentist problem; he was a Liberal but I can't remember who. It was to ' Import dentists from Poland'. I couldn't believe it.
Closing Edinburgh Dentistry school was a bad move.
Another union benefit?
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