Swinney claims nuclear victory
Douglas Fraser on the nuclear issue"
Westminster has denounced Holyrood as
irresponsible after it conceded no new nuclear power stations would be built in Scotland.
As the UK Government yesterday announced it was inviting energy companies to tender to build a new generation of nuclear plants, ministers from either side of the border clashed.
Given that Holyrood is the planning authority north of the border, none of the estimated 10 plants the Prime Minister wants to see providing a significant part of Britain's energy beyond 2020 will be built in Scotland.
John Swinney, the Scottish Finance Secretary, hailed Scotland's exclusion as a "great success for the Scottish Government" while John Hutton, Westminster's Business Secretary, branded the SNP's anti-nuclear stance a "political stunt".
Gordon Brown insisted a fresh wave of plants was in the "national interest" to help secure the UK's energy supply and meet carbon reduction targets.
The news was welcomed by pro-nuclear and business groups but was attacked by environmentalists, opposition politicians and some Labour supporters.
As well as the announcement on nuclear, the UK Government published an Energy Bill signalling greater deployment of renewable energy and more investment in carbon capture and storage as well as offshore gas. In the Commons, it was clear Mr Hutton and many Scots Labour MPs were incensed by opposition from Alex Salmond's government to replacing Hunterston B in Ayrshire and Torness in East Lothian.
The Secretary of State insisted nuclear energy was a "tried and tested, safe and secure form of low carbon technology". He said Westminster had invited Holyrood to use a Sewel Motion in the Scottish Parliament to ensure the Energy Bill operated on a UK-wide basis but that its offer had been rebuffed.
Insisting it was "a missed opportunity", he said: "I believe it is more to do with making a political stunt than taking a responsible, long-term decision in the best interests of either Scottish electricity consumers or the wider UK perspective. I regret that and I believe Scottish Government ministers will come to regret that decision, too."
But Mr Swinney stressed new plants were "unwanted and unnecessary" north of the border and that Mr Hutton knew full well the depth of Scottish public opposition to them. "The UK Energy Bill provisions on nuclear power do not extend to Scotland. This is a great success for the Scottish Government," he said.
Mr Swinney also claimed
London's decision would hit Scottish consumers. "Scots now face the prospect of increased electricity prices to fund the decommissioning of English nuclear power stations," he said.
Outwith Westminster, Iain McMillan, director of CBI Scotland, said the Scottish Government was wrong to rule out nuclear, while Duncan McLaren of Friends of the Earth Scotland claimed a new nuclear build would "store up problems for the future".
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Posted by: Wardog, Buckie on 12:12am Fri 11 Jan 08
[bold]Great News[/bold] - Need to get the Scottish Energy Strategy Published ASAP
[italic]After Labour / Lib Dems failed to even start the process over 18 months ago!!![/italic]
Great News - Need to get the Scottish Energy Strategy Published ASAP
After Labour / Lib Dems failed to even start the process over 18 months ago!!! Posted by: Rab the Ranter, Carluke on 12:14am Fri 11 Jan 08
Neither England nor Scotland have Uranium mines....
Think before you nuke!
Neither England nor Scotland have Uranium mines....
Think before you nuke!
Posted by: Stevie, Bo'ness on 12:18am Fri 11 Jan 08
GREAT NEWS
Scotland should be the renewables capital of the world, we have the means, and now we have the political will. We are already a net exporter of electricity. To England!
Why do we need nuke power here? It's madness.
Just an excuse for lumbering us and our great grandchildren, with more nuclear dumping from all over the UK and beyond.
No thanks.
GREAT NEWS
Scotland should be the renewables capital of the world, we have the means, and now we have the political will. We are already a net exporter of electricity. To England!
Why do we need nuke power here? It's madness.
Just an excuse for lumbering us and our great grandchildren, with more nuclear dumping from all over the UK and beyond.
No thanks.
Posted by: redcliffe62, brisbane on hols, cheap uranium for sale on 12:18am Fri 11 Jan 08
If Scots are serious about removing all things nuclear from Scotland, and that includes boys toys at Faslane, then this is a commendable start.
If Scotland was not self sufficient in energy, both in its raw and processed formats, then the case for nuclear power would be more compelling.
I look forward to the old Wembley stadium being turned into a power plant. However, realistically I would guess that despite being "safe" the power stations will go to deepest Norfolk or Cornwall, as far away from NIMBY London commuter land as possible.
Does anyone know where the new list is for where the powers stations might go, other than not being in Scotland?
As labour vouted gainst Nuclear Power in the Scottish Parliamnet hard to be negative now that the decision has been justified by the MAJORITY.
If Scots are serious about removing all things nuclear from Scotland, and that includes boys toys at Faslane, then this is a commendable start.
If Scotland was not self sufficient in energy, both in its raw and processed formats, then the case for nuclear power would be more compelling.
I look forward to the old Wembley stadium being turned into a power plant. However, realistically I would guess that despite being "safe" the power stations will go to deepest Norfolk or Cornwall, as far away from NIMBY London commuter land as possible.
Does anyone know where the new list is for where the powers stations might go, other than not being in Scotland?
As labour vouted gainst Nuclear Power in the Scottish Parliamnet hard to be negative now that the decision has been justified by the MAJORITY.
Posted by: peds, feldy on 12:19am Fri 11 Jan 08
Another nail in the unionist coffin. We've got plenty of energy up here, no need for nuclear. We've just bulid a hydro-electic power station up by Loch Ness that can power a city the size of glasgow FFs.....
Another nail in the unionist coffin. We've got plenty of energy up here, no need for nuclear. We've just bulid a hydro-electic power station up by Loch Ness that can power a city the size of glasgow FFs.....
Posted by: Scunnert, Travelling in Nihlon on 12:22am Fri 11 Jan 08
Victory indeed! The only problem now is where to house all those English environmental refugees when they start pouring into Scotland?
Victory indeed! The only problem now is where to house all those English environmental refugees when they start pouring into Scotland?
Posted by: James, Lanarkshire on 12:31am Fri 11 Jan 08
It was stated quite categorically in Newsnight that no public money will be offered for building or running these stations in England, or for processing and storing the waste, but the realisation of the stations is so far away it will be some other party in Westminster that will be responsible for sorting out any deficit.
You wonder if the stations will actually be built under these terms! It is only the French nuclear company that is keen to build (four) stations (apparently Gordon Brown’s brother works for this company), but it seems that this company is not answerable to shareholders in the same way as other companies in this market, so they can take risks that other companies won’t take.
It was stated quite categorically in Newsnight that no public money will be offered for building or running these stations in England, or for processing and storing the waste, but the realisation of the stations is so far away it will be some other party in Westminster that will be responsible for sorting out any deficit.
You wonder if the stations will actually be built under these terms! It is only the French nuclear company that is keen to build (four) stations (apparently Gordon Brown’s brother works for this company), but it seems that this company is not answerable to shareholders in the same way as other companies in this market, so they can take risks that other companies won’t take.
Posted by: John Saultire, Scotland on 12:37am Fri 11 Jan 08
Scunnert. Do not worry about the English refugees flowing into Scotland. T[bold]hey will be the ones ready to stand up fot Scotland and its desire for Independence. The ones you want to worry about iare the[/bold] failed UNionists from NorthernI Ireland. They failed there in their blessed love of a lost dream dating to 1690 and wish Scotland to fail too. You have been warned.
Scunnert. Do not worry about the English refugees flowing into Scotland. T
hey will be the ones ready to stand up fot Scotland and its desire for Independence. The ones you want to worry about iare the failed UNionists from NorthernI Ireland. They failed there in their blessed love of a lost dream dating to 1690 and wish Scotland to fail too. You have been warned.
Posted by: Scamp on 12:39am Fri 11 Jan 08
1. Why did Brown last year sell the only UK owned nuclear reactor builder to the Japanese?
2. If Labour are so opposed to state intervention why is that EDF which is 70% owned by the French Govt will be allowed to build nuclear reactors in England?
1. Why did Brown last year sell the only UK owned nuclear reactor builder to the Japanese?
2. If Labour are so opposed to state intervention why is that EDF which is 70% owned by the French Govt will be allowed to build nuclear reactors in England?
Posted by: Mercutio, Falkirk on 12:41am Fri 11 Jan 08
Stevie, Bo'ness on 12:18am todaysays [quote]We are already a net exporter of electricity. To England!
[/quote]
Where do you think this surplus comes from which enables us to export?
Stevie, Bo'ness on 12:18am todaysays
We are already a net exporter of electricity. To England!
Where do you think this surplus comes from which enables us to export?
Posted by: Colin B, BEarsden on 12:49am Fri 11 Jan 08
Swinney was very unconvincing on newsnight assuming our energy exports are Nuclear, that clean coal research will prove succesful - he's not said how he will bridge the energy gap.
Coal and oil production has killed many more people than nuclear - its just more emotive to working class dinosaurs
Swinney was very unconvincing on newsnight assuming our energy exports are Nuclear, that clean coal research will prove succesful - he's not said how he will bridge the energy gap.
Coal and oil production has killed many more people than nuclear - its just more emotive to working class dinosaurs
Posted by: Malachi Malagrowther on 12:51am Fri 11 Jan 08
Great news – no new nuclear power stations north of the Border. Well done the Scottish Government. Top marks to John Swinney.
But what’s now stopping London just stringing Mr Bean’s nuclear power stations along Hadrian’s Wall?
Let’s see the reality matching the rhetoric. If they are so safe, build them next to cities where the power is needed, right next to where you store the waste.
Great news – no new nuclear power stations north of the Border. Well done the Scottish Government. Top marks to John Swinney.
But what’s now stopping London just stringing Mr Bean’s nuclear power stations along Hadrian’s Wall?
Let’s see the reality matching the rhetoric. If they are so safe, build them next to cities where the power is needed, right next to where you store the waste.
Posted by: Scunnert, Travelling in Nihlon on 12:51am Fri 11 Jan 08
[quote][bold]John Saultire[/bold] wrote:
Scunnert. Do not worry about the English refugees flowing into Scotland. T[bold]hey will be the ones ready to stand up fot Scotland and its desire for Independence. The ones you want to worry about iare the[/bold] failed UNionists from NorthernI Ireland. They failed there in their blessed love of a lost dream dating to 1690 and wish Scotland to fail too. You have been warned.[/quote] Not worried John - just a wee bit of forward planning. Something labour singularly failed to de re: housing in Scotland. As for the NI Uniionists - well - we've been there before. I grew up in the west and know the words to all their songs - and some they didn't write.
John Saultire wrote:
Scunnert. Do not worry about the English refugees flowing into Scotland. They will be the ones ready to stand up fot Scotland and its desire for Independence. The ones you want to worry about iare the failed UNionists from NorthernI Ireland. They failed there in their blessed love of a lost dream dating to 1690 and wish Scotland to fail too. You have been warned.
Not worried John - just a wee bit of forward planning. Something labour singularly failed to de re: housing in Scotland. As for the NI Uniionists - well - we've been there before. I grew up in the west and know the words to all their songs - and some they didn't write.
Posted by: Margaret on 1:05am Fri 11 Jan 08
Brilliant news! I am so happy that I voted SNP.
Brilliant news! I am so happy that I voted SNP.
Posted by: Ross on 1:38am Fri 11 Jan 08
I can just see it now a nice safe contemporary ultra-modern annex to Westminster. conveniently located in the area of greatest demand and with lots of lovely cooling water, my my they could even pump the water straight into the water mains to save energy. That and a nice neo-classic one right across the street from Buck House, my what a lovely addition to the London scene!
But not in my back yard.
I can just see it now a nice safe contemporary ultra-modern annex to Westminster. conveniently located in the area of greatest demand and with lots of lovely cooling water, my my they could even pump the water straight into the water mains to save energy. That and a nice neo-classic one right across the street from Buck House, my what a lovely addition to the London scene!
But not in my back yard.
Posted by: Los Angeles, Edinburgh on 1:58am Fri 11 Jan 08
[quote]John Swinney, the Scottish Finance Secretary, hailed Scotland's exclusion as a "great success for the Scottish Government" while John Hutton, Westminster's Business Secretary, branded the SNP's anti-nuclear stance a "political stunt".[/quote] Here we go again.
They "gift" us a parliament and are aghast when we dare exercise our initiative.
They did not mean we do as we please, they meant we do as they decree.
John Swinney, the Scottish Finance Secretary, hailed Scotland's exclusion as a "great success for the Scottish Government" while John Hutton, Westminster's Business Secretary, branded the SNP's anti-nuclear stance a "political stunt".
Here we go again.
They "gift" us a parliament and are aghast when we dare exercise our initiative.
They did not mean we do as we please, they meant we do as they decree.
Posted by: Brian Hill, Edinburgh on 3:35am Fri 11 Jan 08
Mercutio, Scotland has been a net exporter of electricity and water for 50 years and more and Oil and Gas since the mid 70s.
Nuclear: Good news on two fronts.
1. No more nuclear in Scotland. 2. Westminster feels the power of Holyrood yet again and obviously does not like it one bit.
Hey, get used to it, it's the future.
Mercutio, Scotland has been a net exporter of electricity and water for 50 years and more and Oil and Gas since the mid 70s.
Nuclear: Good news on two fronts.
1. No more nuclear in Scotland. 2. Westminster feels the power of Holyrood yet again and obviously does not like it one bit.
Hey, get used to it, it's the future.
Posted by: BriW, singapore on 4:00am Fri 11 Jan 08
For the cost of replacing the 2 present Nuclear Power Stations in Scotland , we could build a whole new generation of Hydro plants like the one presently undser construction on Loch Ness and at a fraction of the price and they will be able to operate as long as there is rain in the Highlands. They will only require routine maintenance and upgrading. They will be almost carbon neutral after construction. They wont produce poisonous by-products that will remain dangerous for thousands of years !
It seems the present Scottish government realise we are all sick of Westminster continually selling in Pork in a Poke to line the pockets of their corporate buddies. Well done Mr.Swinney et al !!!
For the cost of replacing the 2 present Nuclear Power Stations in Scotland , we could build a whole new generation of Hydro plants like the one presently undser construction on Loch Ness and at a fraction of the price and they will be able to operate as long as there is rain in the Highlands. They will only require routine maintenance and upgrading. They will be almost carbon neutral after construction. They wont produce poisonous by-products that will remain dangerous for thousands of years !
It seems the present Scottish government realise we are all sick of Westminster continually selling in Pork in a Poke to line the pockets of their corporate buddies. Well done Mr.Swinney et al !!!
Posted by: doonhamer on 4:26am Fri 11 Jan 08
Labour has been routed on this issue not just by the SNP but by the Scottish people. A true nationalist dividend to this and future generations.
Labour has been routed on this issue not just by the SNP but by the Scottish people. A true nationalist dividend to this and future generations.
Posted by: Saul Tyre on 6:07am Fri 11 Jan 08
I really feel sorry for the English people, as they do not have a party that looks after their well being. Well actually there is the English National Party but so few vote for them. Maybe that will change. Good luck to them. They have an interesting website and cannot be compared to the xenophobic BNP or English Independence Party.
The English should go on the streets and demand an election. Then they can send Gordon 'Golden Fred' Brown packing.
I really feel sorry for the English people, as they do not have a party that looks after their well being. Well actually there is the English National Party but so few vote for them. Maybe that will change. Good luck to them. They have an interesting website and cannot be compared to the xenophobic BNP or English Independence Party.
The English should go on the streets and demand an election. Then they can send Gordon 'Golden Fred' Brown packing.
Posted by: donald, glasgow on 6:11am Fri 11 Jan 08
[quote]Posted by: John Saultire, Scotland on 12:37am today
Scunnert. Do not worry about the English refugees flowing into Scotland. T[bold]hey will be the ones ready to stand up fot Scotland and its desire for Independence. The ones you want to worry about iare the[/bold] failed UNionists from NorthernI Ireland. They failed there in their blessed love of a lost dream dating to 1690 and wish Scotland to fail too. You have been warned.
Scunnert. Do not worry about the English refugees flowing into Scotland. They will be the ones ready to stand up fot Scotland and its desire for Independence. The ones you want to worry about iare the failed UNionists from NorthernI Ireland. They failed there in their blessed love of a lost dream dating to 1690 and wish Scotland to fail too. You have been warned.[/quote] They have already done that to the SSP and Respect. Well done chaps.
Posted by: John Saultire, Scotland on 12:37am today
Scunnert. Do not worry about the English refugees flowing into Scotland. They will be the ones ready to stand up fot Scotland and its desire for Independence. The ones you want to worry about iare the failed UNionists from NorthernI Ireland. They failed there in their blessed love of a lost dream dating to 1690 and wish Scotland to fail too. You have been warned.
Scunnert. Do not worry about the English refugees flowing into Scotland. They will be the ones ready to stand up fot Scotland and its desire for Independence. The ones you want to worry about iare the failed UNionists from NorthernI Ireland. They failed there in their blessed love of a lost dream dating to 1690 and wish Scotland to fail too. You have been warned.
They have already done that to the SSP and Respect. Well done chaps.
Posted by: donald, glasgow on 6:13am Fri 11 Jan 08
They have already done that to the SSP and Respect.
They have already done that to the SSP and Respect.
Posted by: james, dundee on 6:20am Fri 11 Jan 08
Posted by: Colin B, BEarsden on 12:49am today
'Swinney was very unconvincing on newsnight'
What abour Fr. David Cairns who laid into the SNP but wibbled and wobbled when asked to explain the position of the (Ahem) 'Scottish' Labour Party whish is anti-nuclear. Labour - anti-nuke until they are in power.
Dont worry London it wont be the Thames, It'll be Sellafield, Hinckley Point, Sizewell and Dungeness for the 4 new reactors - not on stream to the 2020s - by which time Scotland will have plans for 4 new Hydro Plants, and be Independent.
Posted by: Colin B, BEarsden on 12:49am today
'Swinney was very unconvincing on newsnight'
What abour Fr. David Cairns who laid into the SNP but wibbled and wobbled when asked to explain the position of the (Ahem) 'Scottish' Labour Party whish is anti-nuclear. Labour - anti-nuke until they are in power.
Dont worry London it wont be the Thames, It'll be Sellafield, Hinckley Point, Sizewell and Dungeness for the 4 new reactors - not on stream to the 2020s - by which time Scotland will have plans for 4 new Hydro Plants, and be Independent.
Posted by: pehman, sussex on 7:16am Fri 11 Jan 08
From the article;-
Gordon Brown insisted a fresh wave of plants was in the "national interest" to help secure the UK's energy supply and meet carbon reduction targets.
By refusing to put gov money into the building of these plants, I don't think the power co.s will be in to much of a hurry to get started.
Brown can crow all he likes about meeting Englands energy gap, but words are cheap.
From the article;-
Gordon Brown insisted a fresh wave of plants was in the "national interest" to help secure the UK's energy supply and meet carbon reduction targets.
By refusing to put gov money into the building of these plants, I don't think the power co.s will be in to much of a hurry to get started.
Brown can crow all he likes about meeting Englands energy gap, but words are cheap.
Posted by: stevethebarge, Norway on 7:38am Fri 11 Jan 08
Scotland - Independant Country as of (insert date LONG time in future). First act of Scots Parliament- Buy electricity from England!
Scotland - Independant Country as of (insert date LONG time in future). First act of Scots Parliament- Buy electricity from England!
Posted by: Los Angeles, Edinburgh on 7:42am Fri 11 Jan 08
Stevebargerightin[quote]Buy electricity from England![/quote]Congratulations on posting the Dumbest Remarks this week.
Stevebargerightin
Buy electricity from England!
Congratulations on posting the Dumbest Remarks this week.
Posted by: bert on 7:43am Fri 11 Jan 08
I heard an interesting fact on PM on Radio 4 yesterday. The clean up for the Sellafield site is going to cost £21-22, 000,000,000 and won't be finished until 2120!
I heard an interesting fact on PM on Radio 4 yesterday. The clean up for the Sellafield site is going to cost £21-22, 000,000,000 and won't be finished until 2120!
Posted by: Los Angeles on 7:46am Fri 11 Jan 08
[quote]What abour Fr. David Cairns who laid into the SNP but wibbled and wobbled when asked to explain the position of the (Ahem) 'Scottish' Labour Party wish is anti-nuclear. Labour - anti-nuke until they are in power.[/quote] You guys have all the fun.
Soon as we have our own broadcasting company transmit all the gross dross spouted by idiot opposition MSPs onto international television in a show called, "Labour's Funniest Bloomers."
We can all enjoy it.
What abour Fr. David Cairns who laid into the SNP but wibbled and wobbled when asked to explain the position of the (Ahem) 'Scottish' Labour Party wish is anti-nuclear. Labour - anti-nuke until they are in power.
You guys have all the fun.
Soon as we have our own broadcasting company transmit all the gross dross spouted by idiot opposition MSPs onto international television in a show called, "Labour's Funniest Bloomers."
We can all enjoy it.
Posted by: James Watt, glasgow on 8:05am Fri 11 Jan 08
>>>>Scotland - Independant Country as of (insert date LONG time in future). First act of Scots Parliament- Buy electricity from England!
Aye, when the wind stops blowing during a particularly dry summer I look forward to hearing about Dear Leader Salmond using "Scottish Oil money" to buy English Nuclear Electricity.
Scotland needs to replace Hunterston and Torness with new Nuclear Plants (or even coal), thus ENSURING electricity supplies.
>>>>Scotland - Independant Country as of (insert date LONG time in future). First act of Scots Parliament- Buy electricity from England!
Aye, when the wind stops blowing during a particularly dry summer I look forward to hearing about Dear Leader Salmond using "Scottish Oil money" to buy English Nuclear Electricity.
Scotland needs to replace Hunterston and Torness with new Nuclear Plants (or even coal), thus ENSURING electricity supplies.
Posted by: Tru Scot, Over Here on 8:10am Fri 11 Jan 08
Great News, this is another excuse where if it is good for london and the south east it MUST be good for the whole uk. This is BS I would like to see Scotland develope and export renewable forms of energy, wave/hydro etc. We, Scotland, gave the west the Industrial revolution if we apply ourselves we could give the world the Green revolution. Lets do this people
Great News, this is another excuse where if it is good for london and the south east it MUST be good for the whole uk. This is BS I would like to see Scotland develope and export renewable forms of energy, wave/hydro etc. We, Scotland, gave the west the Industrial revolution if we apply ourselves we could give the world the Green revolution. Lets do this people
Posted by: Los Angeles, Edinburgh on 8:20am Fri 11 Jan 08
James Watt says[quote]Aye, when the wind stops blowing[/quote]And like him you're full of steam.
James Watt says
Aye, when the wind stops blowing
And like him you're full of steam.
Posted by: Jim, Glasgow on 8:23am Fri 11 Jan 08
Sorry, but the numbers just don't add up.
Wind and wave power generation will not have the capacity to compensate for no nuclear generation. I am in favor of wind turbines but the sheer number needed to compensate for a nuclear station is just not realistic.
Hydro is great and could balance the supply and demand equation, but if you think Mr Trump had an environmental planning issue wait and see the the reaction to dams being built, glens flooded and homes cleared to build equivalent capacity.
Clean coal is a grand idea but it is experimental and in any case where will we get the coal - we shut them all (well nearly all) down. Import from Poland or China, well all the Polish workers are here and China already need more energy than they can produce.
Energy saving will help but new labour saving must haves, home computers and comfort levels balance out the odd energy saving lightbulb.
I am not a fan of nuclear power but I am, in my opinion, a realist. Regretfully we do need nuclear power if we want to maintain our standard of life and not become dependent on imports from south of the border in the long term.
Sorry, but the numbers just don't add up.
Wind and wave power generation will not have the capacity to compensate for no nuclear generation. I am in favor of wind turbines but the sheer number needed to compensate for a nuclear station is just not realistic.
Hydro is great and could balance the supply and demand equation, but if you think Mr Trump had an environmental planning issue wait and see the the reaction to dams being built, glens flooded and homes cleared to build equivalent capacity.
Clean coal is a grand idea but it is experimental and in any case where will we get the coal - we shut them all (well nearly all) down. Import from Poland or China, well all the Polish workers are here and China already need more energy than they can produce.
Energy saving will help but new labour saving must haves, home computers and comfort levels balance out the odd energy saving lightbulb.
I am not a fan of nuclear power but I am, in my opinion, a realist. Regretfully we do need nuclear power if we want to maintain our standard of life and not become dependent on imports from south of the border in the long term.
Posted by: Los Angeles on 8:25am Fri 11 Jan 08
Jim In A Jam[quote]Regretfully we do need nuclear power if we want to maintain our standard of life and not become dependent on imports from south of the border in the long term.[/quote] Do you mean to say our government overlooked that salient point?
Jim In A Jam
Regretfully we do need nuclear power if we want to maintain our standard of life and not become dependent on imports from south of the border in the long term.
Do you mean to say our government overlooked that salient point?
Posted by: jim, Glasgow on 8:33am Fri 11 Jan 08
Los Angeles
Have seen or heard nothing to convince me otherwise on this issue.
I do however believe most other proposals coming from the SNP government are a breath of fresh air.
Los Angeles
Have seen or heard nothing to convince me otherwise on this issue.
I do however believe most other proposals coming from the SNP government are a breath of fresh air.
Posted by: James Watt, glasgow green on 8:34am Fri 11 Jan 08
Los Angeles, Edinburgh says
>>>>>>>Aye, when the wind stops blowing
And like him you're full of steam.
Aye mate, ignore the question and instead slur one of the greatest and most influential Scotsmen of all time. Unfortunately you are one of many followers of the Dear Leader who have lost all sense of reason and instead indulge in touchy feel good politics.
One more time for all the social workers, lawyer greenies and SNP opportunists........
........What do you do when the wind stops blowing during a dry period? Answer is, of coarse, buy English Nuclear power or go without.
Los Angeles, Edinburgh says
>>>>>>>Aye, when the wind stops blowing
And like him you're full of steam.
Aye mate, ignore the question and instead slur one of the greatest and most influential Scotsmen of all time. Unfortunately you are one of many followers of the Dear Leader who have lost all sense of reason and instead indulge in touchy feel good politics.
One more time for all the social workers, lawyer greenies and SNP opportunists........
........What do you do when the wind stops blowing during a dry period? Answer is, of coarse, buy English Nuclear power or go without.
Posted by: Lowperdowg, Muckle Flugga on 8:35am Fri 11 Jan 08
Great news for Scotland.
Jim, Glasgow - don't forget tidal, where the Pentland Firth is a [italic]major[/italic] source of energy.
We also are making strides in energy conservation.
Great news for Scotland.
Jim, Glasgow - don't forget tidal, where the Pentland Firth is a
major source of energy.
We also are making strides in energy conservation.
Posted by: Tru Scot, Over Here on 8:37am Fri 11 Jan 08
Beg to differ jim in a jam
I wouldn't go with wind as I don't like the wind mills spoiling Scottish landscape. However I reckon with advances in the wave power and our bountiful hydro capacity we could be self sufficient and in fact export energy and know how, and in so doing become a leader in the production of green energy
Beg to differ jim in a jam
I wouldn't go with wind as I don't like the wind mills spoiling Scottish landscape. However I reckon with advances in the wave power and our bountiful hydro capacity we could be self sufficient and in fact export energy and know how, and in so doing become a leader in the production of green energy
Posted by: Los Angeles, Edinburgh on 8:41am Fri 11 Jan 08
James Watt Full Of Steam[quote]What do you do when the wind stops blowing during a dry period?[/quote] We use a dockin leaf. I presume you use your fingers.
[quote]Aye mate, ignore the question and instead slur one of the greatest and most influential Scotsmen of all time.[/quote] Use of "mate" marks you out as English and an imposter.
Go play with the diesel trains. Steam went out decades ago.
James Watt Full Of Steam
What do you do when the wind stops blowing during a dry period?
We use a dockin leaf. I presume you use your fingers.
Aye mate, ignore the question and instead slur one of the greatest and most influential Scotsmen of all time.
Use of "mate" marks you out as English and an imposter.
Go play with the diesel trains. Steam went out decades ago.
Posted by: Dave, Livi Village on 8:41am Fri 11 Jan 08
Whatever the relative merits of different methods of generating electricity, it is unacceptable for a member of the UK governement to accuse a devolved administration of making a "political stunt" by advocating a safe way forward for its constituency. John Hutton's statement was disgraceful and should be withdrawn or disowned by his government.
When, oh when, are we going to se the beginnings of a grown-up politics in this benighted country?
Whatever the relative merits of different methods of generating electricity, it is unacceptable for a member of the UK governement to accuse a devolved administration of making a "political stunt" by advocating a safe way forward for its constituency. John Hutton's statement was disgraceful and should be withdrawn or disowned by his government.
When, oh when, are we going to se the beginnings of a grown-up politics in this benighted country?
Posted by: Los Angeles, Edinburgh on 8:49am Fri 11 Jan 08
Lowperdoug[quote]don't forget tidal[/quote] If only we could harness the wind from the Labour party and its supporters.
Lowperdoug
don't forget tidal
If only we could harness the wind from the Labour party and its supporters.
Posted by: fishface, edinburgh on 8:50am Fri 11 Jan 08
There are huge issues here that the get-warm-quick and disregard the consequences thatcher-blair-brown people are not even looking at - burn a few calories of energy, call it cheap and clean, contaminate land, incur a bill of 10s of billions of pounds to decommission it and spend 120 years doing that. Disregard too the problem of finding safe disposal for the pollution that will be critically dangerous for thousands of years.
They're idea of a consultation process was shown up to be an absolute sham by Greenpeace last year, when they couldn't get the courts to agree that they had consulted people fully on all the problems of nuclear. Trying to get that argument past the courts was a real political stunt.
There are huge issues here that the get-warm-quick and disregard the consequences thatcher-blair-brown people are not even looking at - burn a few calories of energy, call it cheap and clean, contaminate land, incur a bill of 10s of billions of pounds to decommission it and spend 120 years doing that. Disregard too the problem of finding safe disposal for the pollution that will be critically dangerous for thousands of years.
They're idea of a consultation process was shown up to be an absolute sham by Greenpeace last year, when they couldn't get the courts to agree that they had consulted people fully on all the problems of nuclear. Trying to get that argument past the courts was a real political stunt.
Posted by: Colin B, BEArsden on 8:52am Fri 11 Jan 08
Los Angeles/James
Cairns was worse -for a Scotland Office minister to keep referrring to the Scottish Executive not Government says it all and his efforts to reconcile Jack mcConnell's position to that of Westminster was laughable.
However Swinney has still to explain where future and cleaner energy will come from-the rpice of oil may make a lot of NorthS ea fields viable but it will need foreign capital to exploit and is carbon dirty
Los Angeles/James
Cairns was worse -for a Scotland Office minister to keep referrring to the Scottish Executive not Government says it all and his efforts to reconcile Jack mcConnell's position to that of Westminster was laughable.
However Swinney has still to explain where future and cleaner energy will come from-the rpice of oil may make a lot of NorthS ea fields viable but it will need foreign capital to exploit and is carbon dirty
Posted by: jim, glasgow on 8:52am Fri 11 Jan 08
Tru Scot
I would love to be able to agree, however where is this 'bountiful hydro capacity'? The major hydro scheme in Scotland is Cruachan but it is pumped storage and requires base load generation to replenish the high level reservoir during periods of low consumer demand. All the other hydro schemes help considerably but are relatively small and fairly seasonal.
I will also be great when the wave power schemes are developed from prototypes to full working solutions.
Tru Scot
I would love to be able to agree, however where is this 'bountiful hydro capacity'? The major hydro scheme in Scotland is Cruachan but it is pumped storage and requires base load generation to replenish the high level reservoir during periods of low consumer demand. All the other hydro schemes help considerably but are relatively small and fairly seasonal.
I will also be great when the wave power schemes are developed from prototypes to full working solutions.
Posted by: Old Bejant, Argyll on 8:54am Fri 11 Jan 08
For all those who are advocating more Hydroelectric, we dont have any more suitable sites to build large scale hydro electric plants weve already used them up. Other renewables will be of benefit however we need substantially more money going into these projects if theyre to be ready before the two existing nuclear power stations in scotland close. Furthermore Clean coal or oil power stations are another choice although not perfectly clean. I choose coal as we still have lots in scotland and coal is not as volatile in price as oil.
I am glad that scotland is standing up for its rights, however, One small new nuclear powerstation built on one of the existing sites will reduce the area of contaminated land and secure energy production as a safety net. What happens if scotland has a freak storm and a lot of turbines and wave enegry installations are damaged ?
We dont want to be in a situation were we have to beg our neighbours for power, and it is always good to keep up to date with modern nuclear techniques just incase we need them some-day even though I hope we never will.
For all those who are advocating more Hydroelectric, we dont have any more suitable sites to build large scale hydro electric plants weve already used them up. Other renewables will be of benefit however we need substantially more money going into these projects if theyre to be ready before the two existing nuclear power stations in scotland close. Furthermore Clean coal or oil power stations are another choice although not perfectly clean. I choose coal as we still have lots in scotland and coal is not as volatile in price as oil.
I am glad that scotland is standing up for its rights, however, One small new nuclear powerstation built on one of the existing sites will reduce the area of contaminated land and secure energy production as a safety net. What happens if scotland has a freak storm and a lot of turbines and wave enegry installations are damaged ?
We dont want to be in a situation were we have to beg our neighbours for power, and it is always good to keep up to date with modern nuclear techniques just incase we need them some-day even though I hope we never will.
Posted by: Los Angeles, Edinburgh on 8:58am Fri 11 Jan 08
Colin[quote]where future and cleaner energy will come[/quote] Are we to leave it to one man? Don't we all take responsibility?
Nuclear is dirty and unsafe energy, all others far less so. Reducing excessive need and waste even better. The solutions are out there ...
Colin
where future and cleaner energy will come
Are we to leave it to one man? Don't we all take responsibility?
Nuclear is dirty and unsafe energy, all others far less so. Reducing excessive need and waste even better. The solutions are out there ...
Posted by: Lowperdowg, Stroma on 9:04am Fri 11 Jan 08
Jim, Old Bejant et al
Have a swatch at this:
[quote]Professor Stephen Salter, of Edinburgh University, claims tidal energy potential in the far north may have been significantly underestimated and has urged the new Scottish government and industry leaders to invest more resources in research.
The eminent scientist believes the Firth's most powerful currents, found in depths previously considered out of reach, could be converted to between [italic]10 and 20 gigawatts[/italic] of electricity – rendering endless supplies for the country's homes and businesses. Prof Salter, who produced an [italic]energy review for the SNP[/italic] , warned that investment would be needed to explore and understand the Firth's varying currents and waves.
"If Scotland truly wants reliable marine current energy with generators which are strong enough... we must build a model test tank with complete control of both waves and currents," he says. "The size of the resource in the Pentland Firth may be larger than that predicted from studies which assumed only shallow-water turbines and ignored bottom friction losses. With turbines designed for deployment in 70 metres' depth, the resource could exceed present UK nuclear capacity."
Prof Salter has spent 10 years exploring the potential of tidal energy and has developed a cylindrical turbine which he believes could reach down to depths of 50m. His turbines could operate in conjunction with seabed-based turbines which could reach 20m upwards from the bottom.
Prof Salter explained that the positioning of the underwater turbines in the firth would be flexible but would be built progressively from the east. "It would be best if the lines of turbines could be placed towards the easterly end of the channel so as to avoid the largest Atlantic waves. A line from Duncansby Head to Muckle Skerry looks a good place to start," he states.
If sufficient investment materialises the turbines could be installed in eight to 10 years' time. A seabed cable running underwater along the east coast to Peterhead could also be constructed, perhaps carrying direct current.[/quote]
Here is the full link:
http://www.marinet.o
rg.uk/refts/7pentlan
dfirth.pdf
Jim, Old Bejant et al
Have a swatch at this:
Professor Stephen Salter, of Edinburgh University, claims tidal energy potential in the far north may have been significantly underestimated and has urged the new Scottish government and industry leaders to invest more resources in research.
The eminent scientist believes the Firth's most powerful currents, found in depths previously considered out of reach, could be converted to between 10 and 20 gigawatts of electricity – rendering endless supplies for the country's homes and businesses. Prof Salter, who produced an energy review for the SNP , warned that investment would be needed to explore and understand the Firth's varying currents and waves.
"If Scotland truly wants reliable marine current energy with generators which are strong enough... we must build a model test tank with complete control of both waves and currents," he says. "The size of the resource in the Pentland Firth may be larger than that predicted from studies which assumed only shallow-water turbines and ignored bottom friction losses. With turbines designed for deployment in 70 metres' depth, the resource could exceed present UK nuclear capacity."
Prof Salter has spent 10 years exploring the potential of tidal energy and has developed a cylindrical turbine which he believes could reach down to depths of 50m. His turbines could operate in conjunction with seabed-based turbines which could reach 20m upwards from the bottom.
Prof Salter explained that the positioning of the underwater turbines in the firth would be flexible but would be built progressively from the east. "It would be best if the lines of turbines could be placed towards the easterly end of the channel so as to avoid the largest Atlantic waves. A line from Duncansby Head to Muckle Skerry looks a good place to start," he states.
If sufficient investment materialises the turbines could be installed in eight to 10 years' time. A seabed cable running underwater along the east coast to Peterhead could also be constructed, perhaps carrying direct current.
Here is the full link:
http://www.marinet.o
rg.uk/refts/7pentlan
dfirth.pdf
Posted by: Rony on 9:07am Fri 11 Jan 08
The Scottish Government is reflecting the wishes of the majority of the Scottish electorate.
How refreshing. to have somebody that listens to what we want instead of OK mug you voted for me - now do as I and my London masters bloody well tell you - we are the only ones clever enough to have an opinion.
The Scottish Government is reflecting the wishes of the majority of the Scottish electorate.
How refreshing. to have somebody that listens to what we want instead of OK mug you voted for me - now do as I and my London masters bloody well tell you - we are the only ones clever enough to have an opinion.
Posted by: Lowperdowg, Scotland, on the brink of greater things on 9:07am Fri 11 Jan 08
And that's just the Pentland Firth...
Orkney, Shetland and the Western Isles all have great potential.
Where there's a will, there's a way. Or at least a bunch of interested relatives.
And that's just the Pentland Firth...
Orkney, Shetland and the Western Isles all have great potential.
Where there's a will, there's a way. Or at least a bunch of interested relatives.
Posted by: Bwoken pwomitheth on 9:18am Fri 11 Jan 08
James Watt asks:
[quote]........What do you do when the wind stops blowing during a dry period? Answer is, of coarse, buy English Nuclear power or go without.[/quote]
I have already made it clear elsewhere that I intend to live in eternal darkness come independence. When the sky falls in on us (according to Unionists) why would we need electricity? Pah! ;-) Seriously though, why do you assume that the energy supply of Scotland will only come from the same source of power as your postings - wind?
James Watt asks:
........What do you do when the wind stops blowing during a dry period? Answer is, of coarse, buy English Nuclear power or go without.
I have already made it clear elsewhere that I intend to live in eternal darkness come independence. When the sky falls in on us (according to Unionists) why would we need electricity? Pah! ;-) Seriously though, why do you assume that the energy supply of Scotland will only come from the same source of power as your postings - wind?
Posted by: James Watt, 687-072 on 9:20am Fri 11 Jan 08
Los Angeles, Edinburgh
What do you do when the wind stops blowing during a dry period?
>>>We use a dockin leaf. I presume you use your fingers.
I'll take that as a "havent got a clue, I am a totally non-technical person" as you clearly do not understand a thing about the subject matter.
>>>>Use of "mate" marks you out as English and an imposter.
Yer patter is crap, mate. You meet all dissent against the Scottish National Socialist party line with anti-english slurs....Pathetic, shallow and immature.
>>>>>>Go play with the diesel trains. Steam went out decades ago.
Steam boilers are used to generate electricity these days.....no doubt yer LA condo makes use of this magnificent Scottish inspired discovery.
Los Angeles, Edinburgh
What do you do when the wind stops blowing during a dry period?
>>>We use a dockin leaf. I presume you use your fingers.
I'll take that as a "havent got a clue, I am a totally non-technical person" as you clearly do not understand a thing about the subject matter.
>>>>Use of "mate" marks you out as English and an imposter.
Yer patter is crap, mate. You meet all dissent against the Scottish National Socialist party line with anti-english slurs....Pathetic, shallow and immature.
>>>>>>Go play with the diesel trains. Steam went out decades ago.
Steam boilers are used to generate electricity these days.....no doubt yer LA condo makes use of this magnificent Scottish inspired discovery.
Posted by: jagsman, Glasgow on 9:24am Fri 11 Jan 08
"John Hutton, Westminster's Business Secretary, branded the SNP's anti-nuclear stance a "political stunt"."
A "political stunt" is when you surround a major airport with tanks on the day of a parliamentary debate on terrorism. The SNP's position on nuclear power, like it or not, is long-standing.
"John Hutton, Westminster's Business Secretary, branded the SNP's anti-nuclear stance a "political stunt"."
A "political stunt" is when you surround a major airport with tanks on the day of a parliamentary debate on terrorism. The SNP's position on nuclear power, like it or not, is long-standing.
Posted by: The Voice of Reason, Blairgowrie on 9:24am Fri 11 Jan 08
Gordon Brown and David Cairns are right: Nuclear Power is only the way forward. I am convinced that our children’s children’s children’s (to the power of 10) young snappers will have mountains of entertainment solving the problems of our waste still contaminating their land, which will develop their brain power enough to solve the problems of their one and a half ears, two noses, eight unique cancers and the possible end of the species.
Has there ever been a Government in history who have parked up as many problems for those to come as this mangy short-sighted bunch of sickos that the once noble CND-friendly Labour Party have evolved / denigrated into? If the choice is between a humungous poisonous legacy from us to the next twenty generations and hanging oot the washing instead of using the tumble dryer on a Thursday, what kind of evil scum has the UK elected to promote the former?
VoR
Gordon Brown and David Cairns are right: Nuclear Power is only the way forward. I am convinced that our children’s children’s children’s (to the power of 10) young snappers will have mountains of entertainment solving the problems of our waste still contaminating their land, which will develop their brain power enough to solve the problems of their one and a half ears, two noses, eight unique cancers and the possible end of the species.
Has there ever been a Government in history who have parked up as many problems for those to come as this mangy short-sighted bunch of sickos that the once noble CND-friendly Labour Party have evolved / denigrated into? If the choice is between a humungous poisonous legacy from us to the next twenty generations and hanging oot the washing instead of using the tumble dryer on a Thursday, what kind of evil scum has the UK elected to promote the former?
VoR
Posted by: Los Angeles, Edinburgh on 9:30am Fri 11 Jan 08
james Twit[quote]no doubt yer LA condo makes use of this magnificent Scottish inspired discovery.[/quote] It doesn't take much to flush out a troll. LoL
Lost sight of his topic in two posts.
james Twit
no doubt yer LA condo makes use of this magnificent Scottish inspired discovery.
It doesn't take much to flush out a troll. LoL
Lost sight of his topic in two posts.
Posted by: daveymac, web on 9:39am Fri 11 Jan 08
Old Bejant, Argyll on 8:54am
That was exactly my position until recently, then I decided that I needed to read up on a lot more material and have now concluded that it is basically a non requirement. I gave plenty of details this week already but here is a brief summary.
Labour themselves commision at least 2 different reports (2002, 5006) which reached the same conclusions as others. The concusion was that by 2020 renewables can easily provide 40% of Scotlands 2020 and beyond power requirements most of the time, with overproduction.
They cannot do it all of the time. During low wind, high demand etc we need other resources forl Sotland or elsewhere. England will export power to Scotland during these exceptions.
Scotland will be overprodung in the majority and exporting to its neighbours. It is a FACT that Scotland needs to upgrade the 2 interconnectors to the south due to increased overproduction from existing planned renewables installations WITHOUT ANY NUCLEAR in Scotland. Forget the rhetoric, look at the facts and draw your own conclusions.
Old Bejant, Argyll on 8:54am
That was exactly my position until recently, then I decided that I needed to read up on a lot more material and have now concluded that it is basically a non requirement. I gave plenty of details this week already but here is a brief summary.
Labour themselves commision at least 2 different reports (2002, 5006) which reached the same conclusions as others. The concusion was that by 2020 renewables can easily provide 40% of Scotlands 2020 and beyond power requirements most of the time, with overproduction.
They cannot do it all of the time. During low wind, high demand etc we need other resources forl Sotland or elsewhere. England will export power to Scotland during these exceptions.
Scotland will be overprodung in the majority and exporting to its neighbours. It is a FACT that Scotland needs to upgrade the 2 interconnectors to the south due to increased overproduction from existing planned renewables installations WITHOUT ANY NUCLEAR in Scotland. Forget the rhetoric, look at the facts and draw your own conclusions.
Posted by: Peter Thomson, Looking over the heads of unionist dwarfs on 9:41am Fri 11 Jan 08
Voice of reason - currently (excuse the pun) 50% of all nuclear generated power goes straight over the border to sustain the national grid in the NE, NW of England and Northern Ireland.
The reason E-on wants a multi mega volt line through the centre of the Scottish Highlands is to export even more 'green' power south of the border.
Longgannet, Cockenzie and Hunterston stations are / have been updated to use clean coal technology which is highly efficient and the stack scrubbers ensure virtually zero toxic emissions. It could even lead to the re-birth of the Scottish coal industry.
Then there is the 50 million pounds CO2 recovery plant that Darling shut down - more evidence of Labour's green credentials!
Glendoe Hydro will produce enough power, on its own, to keep Glasgow's lights on.
Scotland long term needs to replace one or other of Torness or Hunterston but not both.
Voice of reason - currently (excuse the pun) 50% of all nuclear generated power goes straight over the border to sustain the national grid in the NE, NW of England and Northern Ireland.
The reason E-on wants a multi mega volt line through the centre of the Scottish Highlands is to export even more 'green' power south of the border.
Longgannet, Cockenzie and Hunterston stations are / have been updated to use clean coal technology which is highly efficient and the stack scrubbers ensure virtually zero toxic emissions. It could even lead to the re-birth of the Scottish coal industry.
Then there is the 50 million pounds CO2 recovery plant that Darling shut down - more evidence of Labour's green credentials!
Glendoe Hydro will produce enough power, on its own, to keep Glasgow's lights on.
Scotland long term needs to replace one or other of Torness or Hunterston but not both.
Posted by: GML, right here on 9:47am Fri 11 Jan 08
To those posting above who think that Scotland needs to build nuclear power plants or 'the lights will go out', have you ever been to Norway, or Denmark, or Ireland? Noway is 100% renewables, Denmark coal and wind, Ireland a mix including gas (some imported from Scotland), renewables and peat. None of them are planning a nuclear future, because...er....they don't need it.
Scotland has a huge renewables potential, and a large market next door that will pay a premium for surplus green electricity. In the event of a major drought combined with a nationwide absence of wind etc etc, we should keep a coal plant and a gas plant on standby (we have plenty of those fuels, incidentally). Climate forecasts are for increasing rainfall in Scotland, particularly in the winter months. It is also a perfectly sensible to have a backup option to import electricity in extremis (we have been exporting it for half a century; England imports from Scotland and France pretty much all the time).
The SE of England in particular needs to build new power plants, and nuclear is pretty much their only low CO2 option. I don't think nucler power is immoral; it's simply that we do not need it here as we have better options.
I am fed up with the needs of the SE of England dominating public affairs in Scotland. Remember the Thatcher era? This is the same, except we have our own Parliament now. If Labour had been running Holyrood right now we might actually have ended up with these power plants as it suits the London agenda (build them wherever we can, far away if possible, and buy the electricity off them). The bizarre aspect of this is that the government is largely led by Scots MPs, who are now clearly living in a parallel universe.
Incidentally, Gordon Brown's brother Andrew works for EDF, the largest nuclear generator in the world and the main supplier of electricity to London. What a surprising coincidence!
To those posting above who think that Scotland needs to build nuclear power plants or 'the lights will go out', have you ever been to Norway, or Denmark, or Ireland? Noway is 100% renewables, Denmark coal and wind, Ireland a mix including gas (some imported from Scotland), renewables and peat. None of them are planning a nuclear future, because...er....they don't need it.
Scotland has a huge renewables potential, and a large market next door that will pay a premium for surplus green electricity. In the event of a major drought combined with a nationwide absence of wind etc etc, we should keep a coal plant and a gas plant on standby (we have plenty of those fuels, incidentally). Climate forecasts are for increasing rainfall in Scotland, particularly in the winter months. It is also a perfectly sensible to have a backup option to import electricity in extremis (we have been exporting it for half a century; England imports from Scotland and France pretty much all the time).
The SE of England in particular needs to build new power plants, and nuclear is pretty much their only low CO2 option. I don't think nucler power is immoral; it's simply that we do not need it here as we have better options.
I am fed up with the needs of the SE of England dominating public affairs in Scotland. Remember the Thatcher era? This is the same, except we have our own Parliament now. If Labour had been running Holyrood right now we might actually have ended up with these power plants as it suits the London agenda (build them wherever we can, far away if possible, and buy the electricity off them). The bizarre aspect of this is that the government is largely led by Scots MPs, who are now clearly living in a parallel universe.
Incidentally, Gordon Brown's brother Andrew works for EDF, the largest nuclear generator in the world and the main supplier of electricity to London. What a surprising coincidence!
Posted by: Los Angeles, Edinburgh on 9:48am Fri 11 Jan 08
Let's conduct the discussion at this level.[quote]Scotland will be over-produng in the majority and exporting to its neighbours. It is a FACT that Scotland needs to upgrade the 2 interconnectors to the south due to increased overproduction from existing planned renewables installations WITHOUT ANY NUCLEAR in Scotland.[/quote] [quote]Voice of reason - currently (excuse the pun) 50% of all nuclear generated power goes straight over the border to sustain the national grid in the NE, NW of England and Northern Ireland.[/quote] The forum is in good hands.
Let's conduct the discussion at this level.
Scotland will be over-produng in the majority and exporting to its neighbours. It is a FACT that Scotland needs to upgrade the 2 interconnectors to the south due to increased overproduction from existing planned renewables installations WITHOUT ANY NUCLEAR in Scotland.
Voice of reason - currently (excuse the pun) 50% of all nuclear generated power goes straight over the border to sustain the national grid in the NE, NW of England and Northern Ireland.
The forum is in good hands.
Posted by: martin, edinburgh on 9:52am Fri 11 Jan 08
it's fair enough, it makes sense to build the stations nearer where the power is needed if that power is not geographically dependent like hydro or wind or tidal is. If you look at the report linked to off the bbc site, it shows that the power grid north of basically birmingham would also have to be massively upgraded to handle the output of the proposed new stations. Even at sellafield a new 50-mile route would have to be constructed around the lake district to connect to the grid.
it's fair enough, it makes sense to build the stations nearer where the power is needed if that power is not geographically dependent like hydro or wind or tidal is. If you look at the report linked to off the bbc site, it shows that the power grid north of basically birmingham would also have to be massively upgraded to handle the output of the proposed new stations. Even at sellafield a new 50-mile route would have to be constructed around the lake district to connect to the grid.
Posted by: Los Angeles, Edinburgh on 9:52am Fri 11 Jan 08
GML[quote]Incidentally, Gordon Brown's brother Andrew works for EDF, the largest nuclear generator in the world and the main supplier of electricity to London. What a surprising coincidence![/quote] Does he use electricity to do his log-rolling?
GML
Incidentally, Gordon Brown's brother Andrew works for EDF, the largest nuclear generator in the world and the main supplier of electricity to London. What a surprising coincidence!
Does he use electricity to do his log-rolling?
Posted by: TheGlaswegian, Edinburgh on 9:53am Fri 11 Jan 08
If hyrdro can gaurantee the base load then we don't need no stinkin' nuclear future.
A full U turn by me (based on satisfactory tidal and wave extraction).
Lowperdowg - very interesting post... this (and likewise schemes) has to be the way forward.
If hyrdro can gaurantee the base load then we don't need no stinkin' nuclear future.
A full U turn by me (based on satisfactory tidal and wave extraction).
Lowperdowg - very interesting post... this (and likewise schemes) has to be the way forward.
Posted by: Badger on 9:58am Fri 11 Jan 08
[quote]What happens if scotland has a freak storm and a lot of turbines and wave enegry installations are damaged ?[/quote]
What happens if some pesky terrorists think a nuclear power station in Scotland might be a good target?
What happens if scotland has a freak storm and a lot of turbines and wave enegry installations are damaged ?
What happens if some pesky terrorists think a nuclear power station in Scotland might be a good target?
Posted by: martin, edinburgh on 10:01am Fri 11 Jan 08
PS dont worry about the "mountain of radioactive waste for 10000 years". The longer the half-life of something, the less likely a nucleus is to decay and give off a radioactive particle. Something with an infinite half-life never decays and never emits radiation. Something wih a half-life of seconds zaps itself into oblivion before it gets out the reactor. It's the intermediate stuff with a half-life of 30 years like stront-90 that's the problem but a couple of centuries in a lead box would have it down to 1% of its initial badness, and then you own it's ****. You'd be worse off sitting next to a smoke detector by then.
PS dont worry about the "mountain of radioactive waste for 10000 years". The longer the half-life of something, the less likely a nucleus is to decay and give off a radioactive particle. Something with an infinite half-life never decays and never emits radiation. Something wih a half-life of seconds zaps itself into oblivion before it gets out the reactor. It's the intermediate stuff with a half-life of 30 years like stront-90 that's the problem but a couple of centuries in a lead box would have it down to 1% of its initial badness, and then you own it's ****. You'd be worse off sitting next to a smoke detector by then.
Posted by: Los Angeles on 10:01am Fri 11 Jan 08
Badger[quote]What happens if some pesky terrorists think a nuclear power station in Scotland might be a good target?[/quote] When advocating nuclear power all potential attack by terrorists evaporates.
LoL
Badger
What happens if some pesky terrorists think a nuclear power station in Scotland might be a good target?
When advocating nuclear power all potential attack by terrorists evaporates.
LoL
Posted by: martin, edinburgh on 10:03am Fri 11 Jan 08
[quote][bold]TheGlaswegian[/bold] wrote:
If hyrdro can gaurantee the base load then we don't need no stinkin' nuclear future. A full U turn by me (based on satisfactory tidal and wave extraction). Lowperdowg - very interesting post... this (and likewise schemes) has to be the way forward.[/quote] hydro can't guarantee base load in thee vent of the gulf stream slowing or halting (a favourite eco-doomsday scenario) and our coastal waters freezing for 3 monthes every year. A possibility rather than a probability, much like terrorists flying into reactors etc
TheGlaswegian wrote:
If hyrdro can gaurantee the base load then we don't need no stinkin' nuclear future. A full U turn by me (based on satisfactory tidal and wave extraction). Lowperdowg - very interesting post... this (and likewise schemes) has to be the way forward.
hydro can't guarantee base load in thee vent of the gulf stream slowing or halting (a favourite eco-doomsday scenario) and our coastal waters freezing for 3 monthes every year. A possibility rather than a probability, much like terrorists flying into reactors etc
Posted by: Eric, Edinburgh on 10:06am Fri 11 Jan 08
Nobody has mentioned co2 emissions. These went up in Scotland between 2006 and 2007 by 30% from electricity production. Once nuclear power has gone they will be more than double what they are now. Do Scottish people (at least Herald readers) not care about that.
There is a remarkable ignorance of facts in the posts above. eg Hydro produces 8% of our power and is at its limit. The huge £100 million scheme by Loch Ness will add less than .2 of 1% to our production. And that is the future? I don't think so.
Nobody has mentioned co2 emissions. These went up in Scotland between 2006 and 2007 by 30% from electricity production. Once nuclear power has gone they will be more than double what they are now. Do Scottish people (at least Herald readers) not care about that.
There is a remarkable ignorance of facts in the posts above. eg Hydro produces 8% of our power and is at its limit. The huge £100 million scheme by Loch Ness will add less than .2 of 1% to our production. And that is the future? I don't think so.
Posted by: AncientHabbie, Wirral, Merseyside on 10:16am Fri 11 Jan 08
James, Lanarkshire 12.31 a.m. this morning.
You're absolutely right. New Labour at its corrupt incestuous best.
"Andrew Brown, head of media relations at EDF Energy, will have been one of those celebrating. Brown moved to EDF from the PR company Weber Shandwick, where he had been director of media strategy. Weber Shandwick has a long history of involvement with the atomic industry. A former UK chief executive of Shandwick International, Philip Dewhurst, has also been an important figure pushing the pro-nuclear message as corporate affairs director for British Nuclear Fuels Ltd (BNFL). More recently, Mr Dewhurst has been acting as chairman of the Nuclear Industries Association (NIA). Weber Shandwick, whose senior vice chairman is former Sun editor David Yelland, provides PR advice to BNFL, which controls British Nuclear Group, manager of the Sellafield site." This can be found at www.nuclearspin.org/
index.php/EDF
[bold]New Labour = Old Tories for corruption, malpractice and sleaze.[/bold]
James, Lanarkshire 12.31 a.m. this morning.
You're absolutely right. New Labour at its corrupt incestuous best.
"Andrew Brown, head of media relations at EDF Energy, will have been one of those celebrating. Brown moved to EDF from the PR company Weber Shandwick, where he had been director of media strategy. Weber Shandwick has a long history of involvement with the atomic industry. A former UK chief executive of Shandwick International, Philip Dewhurst, has also been an important figure pushing the pro-nuclear message as corporate affairs director for British Nuclear Fuels Ltd (BNFL). More recently, Mr Dewhurst has been acting as chairman of the Nuclear Industries Association (NIA). Weber Shandwick, whose senior vice chairman is former Sun editor David Yelland, provides PR advice to BNFL, which controls British Nuclear Group, manager of the Sellafield site." This can be found at www.nuclearspin.org/
index.php/EDF
New Labour = Old Tories for corruption, malpractice and sleaze. Posted by: AncientHabbie, Wirral, Merseyside on 10:18am Fri 11 Jan 08
James, Lanarkshire 12.31 a.m. this morning.
You're absolutely right. New Labour at its corrupt incestuous best.
"Andrew Brown, head of media relations at EDF Energy, will have been one of those celebrating. Brown moved to EDF from the PR company Weber Shandwick, where he had been director of media strategy. Weber Shandwick has a long history of involvement with the atomic industry. A former UK chief executive of Shandwick International, Philip Dewhurst, has also been an important figure pushing the pro-nuclear message as corporate affairs director for British Nuclear Fuels Ltd (BNFL). More recently, Mr Dewhurst has been acting as chairman of the Nuclear Industries Association (NIA). Weber Shandwick, whose senior vice chairman is former Sun editor David Yelland, provides PR advice to BNFL, which controls British Nuclear Group, manager of the Sellafield site." This can be found at www.nuclearspin.org/
index.php/EDF
[bold]New Labour = Old Tories for corruption, malpractice and sleaze.[/bold]
James, Lanarkshire 12.31 a.m. this morning.
You're absolutely right. New Labour at its corrupt incestuous best.
"Andrew Brown, head of media relations at EDF Energy, will have been one of those celebrating. Brown moved to EDF from the PR company Weber Shandwick, where he had been director of media strategy. Weber Shandwick has a long history of involvement with the atomic industry. A former UK chief executive of Shandwick International, Philip Dewhurst, has also been an important figure pushing the pro-nuclear message as corporate affairs director for British Nuclear Fuels Ltd (BNFL). More recently, Mr Dewhurst has been acting as chairman of the Nuclear Industries Association (NIA). Weber Shandwick, whose
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