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   Web Issue 3191 July 5 2008   
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Government ‘panic’ after £200m freed up for defence spending
MICHAEL SETTLEMay 17 2008

The UK Government was last night accused by the Conservatives of "panic" after it moved to free up £200m of defence spending to help secure two new aircraft carriers and provide equipment for front-line troops.

It emerged that the Treasury has agreed to allow the Ministry of Defence more flexibility in its budget to meet immediate priorities, including the politically sensitive issue of the aircraft carriers. However, the extra money is on condition the MoD carries out a major review of other projects. This has led to fears of increasing uncertainty in the defence industry.

The latest development comes just days after The Herald reported how the cost of the two new aircraft carriers has jumped by £300m to £4.2bn.

The UK Government is now expected to try to accelerate agreement of the long-delayed contract to ensure the escalating price tag does not lead to the project being scrapped.

The Treasury pegged the "maximum" cost of the warships at £3.9bn on January 1, 2007, but that figure takes no account of inflation and increases in the cost of labour and materials in the interim.

The carrier contract is designed to underpin 10,000 British shipbuilding jobs, including 3500 on the Clyde, until the middle to late years of the next decade and is regarded by Downing Street as sacrosanct in the run-up to the next General Election, expected in the spring or summer of 2010.

Yesterday, Liam Fox, the Shadow Defence Secretary, said the freeing-up of the £200m was "not driven by any rational examination of military equipment needs but by the gaping hole in the Treasury left by Gordon Brown's economic mismanagement".

He added: "Long-term planning has been abandoned in a panic attempt to plug the gaping hole in the defence budget. This effectively signals the end of the Defence Industrial Strategy and will add further uncertainty to the defence industry at a time when unemployment is already rising."

However, last night, a source close to Des Browne, the Defence Secretary, said: "These measures are about long-term planning. The Tories need to stop posturing and say exactly what they would do differently and whether or not they would match the government's spend on defence."

Earlier, an MoD spokeswoman said the department was determined to do more to support the military and that meant a better prioritisation of its spending plans.

"The examination of the equipment programme will focus on two issues above all: bearing down on cost increases to equipment programmes and rebalancing the equipment programme to better support the front line."

She added: "If the examination identifies savings, the Treasury has agreed to flexibility within the existing settlement to make those changes that will enable us to rebalance our plans. This will not be new money, merely flexibility within the settlement."


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Posted by: soloman, Stirling on 9:41pm Fri 16 May 08
Where has all the or tax gone?
Posted by: soloman, Stirling on 9:44pm Fri 16 May 08
Should read.

Where has all the tax gone?
Posted by: tcek, South Lanarkshire on 11:01pm Fri 16 May 08
I wonder what else the treasury has flexibly turned a blind eye to as far as billions of pounds are concerned, STARTING WITH THE REGENERATION OF VAST AREAS OF SOUTH EAST ENGLAND NAMELY SOMEWHERE CALLED LONDON, WHERE FOR DECADES THE TREASURY HAS THROWN BILLIONS AT THEM WHICH WAS SCOTLANDS MONEY, AND IN NO WAY WAS ENGLANDS MONEY IT,S TIME IT,S TIME IT,S LONG BEFORE TIME WE DUMPED THOSE THIEVING B E E E'S. GOT TO GO NOW
Posted by: Im no really here, but over there on 11:25pm Fri 16 May 08
soloman wrote:
Where has all the or tax gone?
Lots still there. The Government has had a windfall due to the rise in Oil Prices. Watch out for throw-away freebie's come the next election. No doubt Scotland will get some to try and buy votes - and there are always some willing to be bought.
Posted by: tris, scotland on 11:33pm Fri 16 May 08

What a mess the place is in. Another union bonus is it?
Posted by: Im no really here, but over there on 11:45pm Fri 16 May 08
Looks like the Herald is blocking ANY story which is solely Scottish. Can't comment on Content of Scottish TV story either. The only Scottish political article they allow comments on is the "Holyrood Sketch".
Posted by: Colin B, Bearsden on 1:17am Sat 17 May 08
Maybe if Des Browne didn't waste the defence budget eg buying helicopters that can't fly and got rid of a few hundred penpushers our servicemen would be better off. Des ( a proven liar who has had to apologise to Parliamnet repeatedly) and Gordy are too busy using the defence budget to bribe public sector emplyees to vote LAbour, same with NHS budget.
Posted by: McNasty, Edinburgh on 8:13am Sat 17 May 08
Aircraft carriers are for force projection, not self defence.

They should not be built and the money used instead, for peaceful purposes.
Posted by: Free Thinker, North Lanarkshire on 8:34am Sat 17 May 08
The 'Royal Navy'... the Establishment's imperial tool for plundering nations and holding them to ransom. Scotland has no need for this nonsense. Oh wait a minute... this is part of the 'jobs & democracy' mantra. Dangle jobs to bring them to heel... jobs they create by wasting our wealth. Whereas democracy is a lie.
Posted by: Dave, Livi Village on 8:38am Sat 17 May 08
Scrap the carriers.
Scrap Trident.
Scrap the UK.
Posted by: Mike, Edinburgh on 8:47am Sat 17 May 08
Looks like that halfwit traitor Des Browne is doing a Wendy/Brown. He is hiding under a desk in his office until the Wendy bring it on nonsense disappears.

Dont kid yourselves that the Government of England is secretly stashing away the money for the oil. You can bet the reason they fear us Scots Patriots so much, is that they have promised away future Oil Revenue to repay the Billions they have been borrowing because of mismanagement of the Taxes that we work so hard for.

Westminster is less relevant to Scotland every day that passes. I believe we Scots will be giving the scum down there the flick within 3 years.
Posted by: Luigi, Aberdeen on 9:58am Sat 17 May 08
Wait for the propaganda - no doubt they will sell it to Scotland by telling us how many Scottish jobs are dependent on this project - what an utter waste of money.
Posted by: stonehaven on 10:13am Sat 17 May 08
If the Herald continues to censor comments on political articles, I will be forced to stop purchasing its newspaper. This will be the end of a 30 year relationship.
Posted by: Marian on 10:51am Sat 17 May 08
What on earth does the UK government want with two so-called aircraft carriers (which in reality will be largish through deck cruisers cappable of landing vertical take off aircraft)? I would hazaerd a guess that this is not required for the defence of the nation but rather to enable further imperial style adventures in far off lands.
Posted by: megz, glasgow on 10:53am Sat 17 May 08
stonehaven wrote:
If the Herald continues to censor comments on political articles, I will be forced to stop purchasing its newspaper. This will be the end of a 30 year relationship.
urgh i've had enough too, went and bought the times yesterday, was 70p but is was atleast a good read. I may check back from time to time as this was my favourite website to post but now i can't really do that on stories i would like to comment on. For now though i'm off.
Posted by: aapeacock, Falkirk on 11:08am Sat 17 May 08

And yet again untill we at last get through to the folk of Motherwell and Wishaw

We could be building the Ferries that Joke O'Donnell sold to the Poles
Posted by: Toophingers, Bellshill. on 11:26am Sat 17 May 08
Any future war would, God help us, be nuclear fought between invisible, practically untraceable submarines, submarines that could, with pin-point accuracy, put a missile into a carrier captain's cabin no matter where in the world the juicy target lay.
They will never be built.
Just more Liebour future pie in the sky vote fishing without substance.
Posted by: Peter Thomson, Labour Loathing Old Sea Dog on 11:59am Sat 17 May 08
The provision of the new carriers is part of the UK's commitment to NATO.

Remember that West Europe has a very long sea board and we as a group of islands are reliant on secure sea lanes to carry on our trade. Most of the imports and exports to the UK still come in and go out by sea.

Also, with out a carrier force, the positive humanitarian and peace keeping activities that the forces carry out would be dependent on US support. That is the UK forces would be simply a tool of the US as they are at present.
Posted by: Marian on 12:56pm Sat 17 May 08
The truth of the matter is that the UK does not require these so-called "aircraft carriers" as part of its commitment to NATO as the UK is an "unsinkable aircraft carrier" in its own right in defence of Europe (as the USA succinctly put it in WW2) whilst as frequently demonstrated in the European theatre of WW2, seaborne "aircraft carriers" can be sunk at will by submarines and aircraft let alone now with 21st century airborne and underwater missiles. The truth is that this hare-brained scheme is partly to prolong the imperial delusion that the UK is still a world-wide military power and partly to buy votes in so-called New Labour heartlands at the next UK general election.
Posted by: Luigi, Aberdeen on 12:58pm Sat 17 May 08
Yep - the old UK gunboat diplomacy has been replaced by the US helicopter gunship diplomacy. It's about time politicians realised that the UK is no longer a superpower - it's not even in the second division. "Third rate power" most accurately describes our current position. What does a third rate power need two huge aircraft carriers for?
Posted by: realist, Scotland on 1:27pm Sat 17 May 08
The so called military experts on this site make me chuckle. Its about a force mixture, destroyers shoot down missiles with missiles, frigates and submarines kill other submarines, the carriers control the airspace out to 500 miles and allow operations to proceed. A bit like paper scissors stone, if you don't know what you are talking about don't post on military threads.
Posted by: Free Thinker, North Lanarkshire on 2:32pm Sat 17 May 08
As Luigi states 'helicopter gunship diplomacy'… and others have observed... these aircraft carriers are not for conventional naval battle as they would be sunk in minutes from a possible myriad of horrendous devices cooked up by weapons manufacturers at hideous cost. They know they will never face a real naval battle as ‘they’ control almost all countries on earth. No, these floating platforms will be used for off-coast ‘operations’ to terrify primitive peoples into submission to except a puppet government that gives up all natural resources. That sounds familiar…
Posted by: Hen Broon, lanark on 4:07pm Sat 17 May 08
Free Thinker wrote:
As Luigi states 'helicopter gunship diplomacy'… and others have observed... these aircraft carriers are not for conventional naval battle as they would be sunk in minutes from a possible myriad of horrendous devices cooked up by weapons manufacturers at hideous cost. They know they will never face a real naval battle as ‘they’ control almost all countries on earth. No, these floating platforms will be used for off-coast ‘operations’ to terrify primitive peoples into submission to except a puppet government that gives up all natural resources. That sounds familiar…
Didn't work to good against a bunch of pirates in RIB's who humiliated the Royal Navy by holding their Sailors and Marines hostage and stealing their boats recently in the Gulf.

The US Navy discovered recently in an exercise that even carrier groups over the horizon can be successfully attacked by small insignificant vessels.

The Icelanders are pretty handy also when it came to seeing of the Royal Navy, twice!

Costa Rica has shown us that a country can live without expensive weapons of mass destruction. Which are used as penis extensions by the so called super powers.
Posted by: Politically-incorrec t Man, Glasgow on 4:24pm Sat 17 May 08
Carriers and Nuclear Submarines are a way of transferring taxes from us to profits for the Rich by buying grossly inflated goods that we (the people) have no need for and that the majority of us have stated that we do not want!

Yet you still believe we live in a democracy!
Posted by: Dr Bill Reynolds, Salo,Finland on 9:07pm Sat 17 May 08
yes the herald are blocking comment on Scottish stories.What can be do ne about this?
Posted by: frank mcbride, lusitania on 8:35am Mon 19 May 08
Dr. Bill.

Like me, and many others, you boycott the Herald until it allows comments.

I would everyone to do the same. Alternatively, comment on the Scottish political stories on every other thread.

This ban is political; it is the beginning of the Unionist attack on Scottish democracy, and should be exposed as such.
Posted by: sid the sceptic, renfrewshire on 9:17am Mon 19 May 08
once again the labour party shown to be what they now are: money and profit is more important than people. the only country not to want a full ban on cluster bombs , the only european country to waste billions on illegal wars while allowing scum to wander there country unhindered. this is all about priority's! it is time for my civil liberties and my human rights to be taken into account. these things are not the exclusive right of the scum in our country!!!
Posted by: Bill, Blantyre on 9:44am Mon 19 May 08
The Herald has been forced to limit comment on Scottish political stories because of the abusive, vitriolic and irrelevant comments submitted by SNP supporters. I would be gratefull if they took their comments elsewhere as promised by some of the above and return the comments privilige to reasonable people.

As for the above article, I hope that these warships are built, therebye providing emoployment to protect all British citizens. The safety of the realm should be of primary concern to all citizens.
Posted by: Disgusted Dorothy, Glasgow on 4:41pm Mon 19 May 08
Intersting that you suggest that its SNP supporters who provide the vitriol.
How do you know this??
Is it because they are angry with media output due to bias , would you think?
As it stands Bill , you will be talking to yourself for some time , since I believe there will be few comments on here from anyone.
Posted by: Whit? Haud yer wisht!, Tunbridge wells, Kent on 3:27pm Tue 20 May 08
Bill wrote:
The Herald has been forced to limit comment on Scottish political stories because of the abusive, vitriolic and irrelevant comments submitted by SNP supporters. I would be gratefull if they took their comments elsewhere as promised by some of the above and return the comments privilige to reasonable people. As for the above article, I hope that these warships are built, therebye providing emoployment to protect all British citizens. The safety of the realm should be of primary concern to all citizens.
Hi all, I am English to the core an proud of (thats neither here or there really, eh?)

I have joined here to comment on the above. As a Strict Fence Sitter I have to say that you are wrong, bill - blantyre. By far the most vitriollic comments are from Liebour and Unionist Supporters, whether you like that or not.

I am of the opinion that you should be given a referendum - no matter how the votes fall. The Oil money is obviously Scotlands (thanks guys) and should be given the lions share as such.

The West Lothian Q? Hmm, not sure what the answer is but I can tell you we all down here are utterly sick at Scottish MP's/ PM's telling us what we can and cannot do/have/say etc

Safety of the Realm? I am not aware of ANY intended Invasion other than by immigrants and asylum seekers - I don't think we need 2 x Carriers to protect us from them! Mebbe frae tha likes o' Broon et al, that'd be more like it!!

Neal, x

Ps If'n I lapse intae colloquial Scots occaisionally please excuse me, ah'm no a scunner but ye have sich a exppressive dialect ya knaw

Ah'll haud ma whisht the noo!
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