Dutiful words, but something stinks in the culture still
If Alex Salmond said a word out of place during First Minister's Questions, I didn't hear it. If Wendy Alexander said anything that was less than sensible, it passed me by. Yet still, the entire exchange sounded unreal.
If you have ever seen a police riot squad go to work, you can come up with any number of justifications for those on the wrong side of the lines.
On the other hand, if you have witnessed a variety of Scottish football fans in action, "inquiries" and discussions of "alcohol policy" tend to redefine the meaning of redundant.
It all aroused odd thoughts. One was that talk of a small minority, however accurate, was all very well, but how big does a minority have to be before someone gets stabbed?
Secondly, while one takes Mr Salmond and Ms Alexander at their words when they devote paragraphs to "the people of Scotland", just who were those characters rampaging through Manchester? Only a couple of hundred, perhaps, from upwards of 100,000, but still they were ours. Us.
The best wee country in the world? Try that on Manchester police - just the injured - accustomed to handling 76,000 peaceable supporters at Old Trafford every other week. The sense lingers that when we, or
some of us, are let loose on the wider world, a minority make a lot more noise than any majority.
Mr Salmond said the dutiful words about that "overwhelming majority", a "carnival atmosphere" and a "festival of football".
He noted how "infuriating" that small minority had become because free televised entertainment failed in an English city that tried to make them welcome while they drank around the clock.
Ms Alexander, too, invoked the majority who were "a credit to their club and
their country". She then attempted to ask, however, if Manchester City Council had been "fully prepared" for a big football game.
Manchester managed a Commonwealth Games
- Glasgow please note - without difficulty. It is home to two of the biggest clubs in the world.
If it fails to say "Welcome Attila, wreck anything you like", that does not count as a deficiency.
The cheering aspect - a tiny, fragile thing - was that both leaders rose above the usual partisan stuff in attempting to deal with a national humiliation.
Mr Salmond was correct in saying there is an anomaly involving football banning orders as they apply across the UK. Ms Alexander was right to return to the issue of alcohol in Scottish life.
But perhaps, amid all the inquiries and the numerous "lessons to be learned", there is a need for a deeper investigation. I'm not picking on Rangers, as such.
They are the biggest, but not necessarily (an argument for another day) the worst of our tribes. Something stinks in the culture still. Sport and drink are mere symptoms. Discuss.
Annabel Goldie and Nicol Stephen elected to talk about gym classes and the SNP's internal contradictions.
This was, so to speak,
a bit of a stretch after
what had gone before. Suddenly an old, atavistic need to forge a note and skip school for the afternoon returned.
Still, had you required evidence of Holyrood at its best, that came with a succession of back-bench MSPs getting to their feet
- consensus, co-operation, and the rest- to talk about Burma and ask what, if anything, this small country can do and is doing. From scenes like these, little Scotia's grandeur springs.
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Posted by: Kent, Edinburgh on 10:03pm Thu 15 May 08
I thought Alex Salmond handled FMQ’s extremely well. While I have no doubt Wendy’s questions were honest and sincere and were certainly not asked to try and trip the First Minister up, I just have a wee doubt at the back of my head about her intentions and integrity ;)
As for the bloke from the LibDems (sorry, I can never remember his name), he looks a right shifty bugger when he’s asking a question. Guess it’s just his slippery way when he’s trying to knife someone in the back while trying to shake their hand.
I thought Alex Salmond handled FMQ’s extremely well. While I have no doubt Wendy’s questions were honest and sincere and were certainly not asked to try and trip the First Minister up, I just have a wee doubt at the back of my head about her intentions and integrity ;)
As for the bloke from the LibDems (sorry, I can never remember his name), he looks a right shifty bugger when he’s asking a question. Guess it’s just his slippery way when he’s trying to knife someone in the back while trying to shake their hand.
Posted by: Free Thinker, North Lanarkshire on 10:14pm Thu 15 May 08
Thank goodness we have a statesman in Alex Salmond. SLAB are a complete joke.
Thank goodness we have a statesman in Alex Salmond. SLAB are a complete joke.
Posted by: Grassy Knollington on 10:17pm Thu 15 May 08
"The best wee country in the world?"
I think you'll find Ian that the country these chaps regard themselves to be from ,first and foremost is Britain. If there is to be shame and humiliation arising from their behaviour (and there is) let's at least share it with the rest of Britain, it's what they would have wanted.
"The best wee country in the world?"
I think you'll find Ian that the country these chaps regard themselves to be from ,first and foremost is Britain. If there is to be shame and humiliation arising from their behaviour (and there is) let's at least share it with the rest of Britain, it's what they would have wanted.
Posted by: fishface, edinburgh on 10:19pm Thu 15 May 08
I hate to say it, especially in the light of all the good things Rangers have done for Scottish football over the years, but they have a very serious violence problem that has to be dealt with. There's no point anybody kidding on about it. They have the most violent support in Scotland.
The people who did the damage in Manchester, and attacked the Russian boy were scum.
I hate to say it, especially in the light of all the good things Rangers have done for Scottish football over the years, but they have a very serious violence problem that has to be dealt with. There's no point anybody kidding on about it. They have the most violent support in Scotland.
The people who did the damage in Manchester, and attacked the Russian boy were scum.
Posted by: Joe Bloggs, Bonkle on 10:31pm Thu 15 May 08
The football-fan incident which has occurred in Manchester is, of course, as the First Minister has said, completely unacceptable.
It is, I believe, a type of incident which is not unknown among English football fans. The fact that numerous English people have quite cynically chosen, nevertheless, to take advantage of this situation to express their well-known prejudice and hostility towards Scottish people in general should not pass un-noticed and probably testifies to the fact that the Union between Scotland and England has had its day.
The sooner it is dissolved the better.
The football-fan incident which has occurred in Manchester is, of course, as the First Minister has said, completely unacceptable.
It is, I believe, a type of incident which is not unknown among English football fans. The fact that numerous English people have quite cynically chosen, nevertheless, to take advantage of this situation to express their well-known prejudice and hostility towards Scottish people in general should not pass un-noticed and probably testifies to the fact that the Union between Scotland and England has had its day.
The sooner it is dissolved the better.
Posted by: Scunnert, Travelling in Nihlon on 10:45pm Thu 15 May 08
Ian wrote:j
[quote]... just who were those characters rampaging through Manchester? Only a couple of hundred, perhaps, from upwards of 100,000, but still they were ours. Us.[/quote]
No they weren't Ian - those union jack draped, lager guzzling, hooligans were North Britons of the Gordon Brown variety demonstrating their love of country - the UK.
This is how unionists enjoy a day out. A little mindless violence mixed with Rule Britannia as the sound track.
Ian wrote:j
... just who were those characters rampaging through Manchester? Only a couple of hundred, perhaps, from upwards of 100,000, but still they were ours. Us.
No they weren't Ian - those union jack draped, lager guzzling, hooligans were North Britons of the Gordon Brown variety demonstrating their love of country - the UK.
This is how unionists enjoy a day out. A little mindless violence mixed with Rule Britannia as the sound track.
Posted by: Strathturret, Montrose on 11:27pm Thu 15 May 08
We can all read the script; it has been trotted out many times before. Barcelona, Birmingham.....
Wrining hands from Rangers execs, we'll have a look at our signing policy, we have no policy of non-signing catholics, we are dealing with sectarianism, honest we are,....
until the next time.
We can all read the script; it has been trotted out many times before. Barcelona, Birmingham.....
Wrining hands from Rangers execs, we'll have a look at our signing policy, we have no policy of non-signing catholics, we are dealing with sectarianism, honest we are,....
until the next time.
Posted by: craigy1314, south lanarkshire on 11:48pm Thu 15 May 08
Well, it does'nt take much for all the Rangers haters to surface does it?
Not all Rangers supporters are-1. Unionists 2. Hooligans 3.Bigots
Our fans have travelled all over Europe on both this and previous seasons, without so much as a hint of trouble. These morons were not in the stadium, and who's to say whether they have any association with our club other than the fact that they jumped on the bandwagon, went to Manchester (who as far as Ican make out have bent over backwards to accomodate them) without tickets and besmirched the good name of the club and country?
Is it not just typical of you lot to dust off the old Rangers = Unionist therefore they're not really scottish b*llsh*t. (note the Lion Rampant in the club crest)
The overwhelming majority of people who went to Manchester, both from Scotland and elsewhere were well behaved, By tarring all with the same brush as the scum who caused the trouble you offend many.
Well, it does'nt take much for all the Rangers haters to surface does it?
Not all Rangers supporters are-1. Unionists 2. Hooligans 3.Bigots
Our fans have travelled all over Europe on both this and previous seasons, without so much as a hint of trouble. These morons were not in the stadium, and who's to say whether they have any association with our club other than the fact that they jumped on the bandwagon, went to Manchester (who as far as Ican make out have bent over backwards to accomodate them) without tickets and besmirched the good name of the club and country?
Is it not just typical of you lot to dust off the old Rangers = Unionist therefore they're not really scottish b*llsh*t. (note the Lion Rampant in the club crest)
The overwhelming majority of people who went to Manchester, both from Scotland and elsewhere were well behaved, By tarring all with the same brush as the scum who caused the trouble you offend many.
Posted by: craigy1314, south lanarkshire on 11:48pm Thu 15 May 08
Well, it does'nt take much for all the Rangers haters to surface does it?
Not all Rangers supporters are-1. Unionists 2. Hooligans 3.Bigots
Our fans have travelled all over Europe on both this and previous seasons, without so much as a hint of trouble. These morons were not in the stadium, and who's to say whether they have any association with our club other than the fact that they jumped on the bandwagon, went to Manchester (who as far as Ican make out have bent over backwards to accomodate them) without tickets and besmirched the good name of the club and country?
Is it not just typical of you lot to dust off the old Rangers = Unionist therefore they're not really scottish b*llsh*t. (note the Lion Rampant in the club crest)
The overwhelming majority of people who went to Manchester, both from Scotland and elsewhere were well behaved, By tarring all with the same brush as the scum who caused the trouble you offend many.
Well, it does'nt take much for all the Rangers haters to surface does it?
Not all Rangers supporters are-1. Unionists 2. Hooligans 3.Bigots
Our fans have travelled all over Europe on both this and previous seasons, without so much as a hint of trouble. These morons were not in the stadium, and who's to say whether they have any association with our club other than the fact that they jumped on the bandwagon, went to Manchester (who as far as Ican make out have bent over backwards to accomodate them) without tickets and besmirched the good name of the club and country?
Is it not just typical of you lot to dust off the old Rangers = Unionist therefore they're not really scottish b*llsh*t. (note the Lion Rampant in the club crest)
The overwhelming majority of people who went to Manchester, both from Scotland and elsewhere were well behaved, By tarring all with the same brush as the scum who caused the trouble you offend many.
Posted by: craigy1314, south lanarkshire on 11:48pm Thu 15 May 08
Well, it does'nt take much for all the Rangers haters to surface does it?
Not all Rangers supporters are-1. Unionists 2. Hooligans 3.Bigots
Our fans have travelled all over Europe on both this and previous seasons, without so much as a hint of trouble. These morons were not in the stadium, and who's to say whether they have any association with our club other than the fact that they jumped on the bandwagon, went to Manchester (who as far as Ican make out have bent over backwards to accomodate them) without tickets and besmirched the good name of the club and country?
Is it not just typical of you lot to dust off the old Rangers = Unionist therefore they're not really scottish b*llsh*t. (note the Lion Rampant in the club crest)
The overwhelming majority of people who went to Manchester, both from Scotland and elsewhere were well behaved, By tarring all with the same brush as the scum who caused the trouble you offend many.
Well, it does'nt take much for all the Rangers haters to surface does it?
Not all Rangers supporters are-1. Unionists 2. Hooligans 3.Bigots
Our fans have travelled all over Europe on both this and previous seasons, without so much as a hint of trouble. These morons were not in the stadium, and who's to say whether they have any association with our club other than the fact that they jumped on the bandwagon, went to Manchester (who as far as Ican make out have bent over backwards to accomodate them) without tickets and besmirched the good name of the club and country?
Is it not just typical of you lot to dust off the old Rangers = Unionist therefore they're not really scottish b*llsh*t. (note the Lion Rampant in the club crest)
The overwhelming majority of people who went to Manchester, both from Scotland and elsewhere were well behaved, By tarring all with the same brush as the scum who caused the trouble you offend many.
Posted by: craigy1314, south lanarkshire on 11:51pm Thu 15 May 08
Well, it does'nt take much for all the Rangers haters to surface does it?
Not all Rangers supporters are-1. Unionists 2. Hooligans 3.Bigots
Our fans have travelled all over Europe on both this and previous seasons, without so much as a hint of trouble. These morons were not in the stadium, and who's to say whether they have any association with our club other than the fact that they jumped on the bandwagon, went to Manchester (who as far as Ican make out have bent over backwards to accomodate them) without tickets and besmirched the good name of the club and country?
Is it not just typical of you lot to dust off the old Rangers = Unionist therefore they're not really scottish b*llsh*t. (note the Lion Rampant in the club crest)
The overwhelming majority of people who went to Manchester, both from Scotland and elsewhere were well behaved, By tarring all with the same brush as the scum who caused the trouble you offend many.
Well, it does'nt take much for all the Rangers haters to surface does it?
Not all Rangers supporters are-1. Unionists 2. Hooligans 3.Bigots
Our fans have travelled all over Europe on both this and previous seasons, without so much as a hint of trouble. These morons were not in the stadium, and who's to say whether they have any association with our club other than the fact that they jumped on the bandwagon, went to Manchester (who as far as Ican make out have bent over backwards to accomodate them) without tickets and besmirched the good name of the club and country?
Is it not just typical of you lot to dust off the old Rangers = Unionist therefore they're not really scottish b*llsh*t. (note the Lion Rampant in the club crest)
The overwhelming majority of people who went to Manchester, both from Scotland and elsewhere were well behaved, By tarring all with the same brush as the scum who caused the trouble you offend many.
Posted by: ex labour voter, glasgow on 12:03am Fri 16 May 08
[quote][bold]craigy1314[/bold] wrote:
Well, it does'nt take much for all the Rangers haters to surface does it? Not all Rangers supporters are-1. Unionists 2. Hooligans 3.Bigots Our fans have travelled all over Europe on both this and previous seasons, without so much as a hint of trouble. These morons were not in the stadium, and who's to say whether they have any association with our club other than the fact that they jumped on the bandwagon, went to Manchester (who as far as Ican make out have bent over backwards to accomodate them) without tickets and besmirched the good name of the club and country? Is it not just typical of you lot to dust off the old Rangers = Unionist therefore they're not really scottish b*llsh*t. (note the Lion Rampant in the club crest) The overwhelming majority of people who went to Manchester, both from Scotland and elsewhere were well behaved, By tarring all with the same brush as the scum who caused the trouble you offend many.[/quote] As a die hard Celtic fan I have to agree with your post.
Well said mate.
craigy1314 wrote:
Well, it does'nt take much for all the Rangers haters to surface does it? Not all Rangers supporters are-1. Unionists 2. Hooligans 3.Bigots Our fans have travelled all over Europe on both this and previous seasons, without so much as a hint of trouble. These morons were not in the stadium, and who's to say whether they have any association with our club other than the fact that they jumped on the bandwagon, went to Manchester (who as far as Ican make out have bent over backwards to accomodate them) without tickets and besmirched the good name of the club and country? Is it not just typical of you lot to dust off the old Rangers = Unionist therefore they're not really scottish b*llsh*t. (note the Lion Rampant in the club crest) The overwhelming majority of people who went to Manchester, both from Scotland and elsewhere were well behaved, By tarring all with the same brush as the scum who caused the trouble you offend many.
As a die hard Celtic fan I have to agree with your post.
Well said mate.
Posted by: Brian Blessed, Glasgow on 12:05am Fri 16 May 08
Rangers haven't acted to stop the scum - merely paid lip service to cutting out the cancer. And why would they? These drongos are their most loyal (sic) customers.
UEFA have fined them, threatened expulsion, cajoled, and warned. And still the halfwits went on the rampage.
The previous Executive and Government have tried to kick the bigots out - and failed.
It falls now to the SFA to show the rest of Europe that Scotland will not tolerate our name being dragged through the gutter by Loyalist thugs and neds. If UEFA do not ban Rangers from Europe, the SFA must take the initiative and stop having these sectarian bigots 'representing' Scotland in European football.
And as an SNP supporter, I was disappointed in Salmond today. He should have been firmer against the consistent nature of Rangers' refusal to take decisive action against the fans known as Scotland's Shame.
(And for the avoidance of doubt, no I am not a Celtic fan).
Rangers haven't acted to stop the scum - merely paid lip service to cutting out the cancer. And why would they? These drongos are their most loyal (sic) customers.
UEFA have fined them, threatened expulsion, cajoled, and warned. And still the halfwits went on the rampage.
The previous Executive and Government have tried to kick the bigots out - and failed.
It falls now to the SFA to show the rest of Europe that Scotland will not tolerate our name being dragged through the gutter by Loyalist thugs and neds. If UEFA do not ban Rangers from Europe, the SFA must take the initiative and stop having these sectarian bigots 'representing' Scotland in European football.
And as an SNP supporter, I was disappointed in Salmond today. He should have been firmer against the consistent nature of Rangers' refusal to take decisive action against the fans known as Scotland's Shame.
(And for the avoidance of doubt, no I am not a Celtic fan).
Posted by: Strathturret, Montrose on 12:07am Fri 16 May 08
I'm sorry, but I don't have a huge regard for people who take 3 days off work to travel to Manchester to spend all day drinking alcohol and then watch a match on a tv screen.
I watched game at home; my TV worked. It cost me nothing and no one got hurt. Are we not supposed to be going green? Is it not rather silly to go a 400 mile round trip to watch the game on telly!
I'm sorry, but I don't have a huge regard for people who take 3 days off work to travel to Manchester to spend all day drinking alcohol and then watch a match on a tv screen.
I watched game at home; my TV worked. It cost me nothing and no one got hurt. Are we not supposed to be going green? Is it not rather silly to go a 400 mile round trip to watch the game on telly!
Posted by: Scunnert, Travelling in Nihlon on 12:18am Fri 16 May 08
Craigy is offended?
[quote]The identities reflected in Glasgow Rangers history and fan culture have been explored by several writers. Graham Walker states that in Scotland and beyond, the club has "stood for a powerful current of popular Protestantism." Furthermore, Rangers has often been seen to encapsulate a "celebration of Scottishness that was underpinned by a strong unionism or loyalism."23 In the past, Glasgow Rangers historians Ferrier and McElroy have claimed that Rangers is the "flag carrier of what the majority of Scots would consider to be national virtues—Protestant, Monarchist tradition and Unionist."24 Esplin identifies the two most popular supporter fanzines of recent decades. He states that the editor of "The Number One" fanzine believes that "the overall thrust of the views in the "fanzine" would head in the direction of loyalist/unionist." The best selling and longest running Rangers fanzine, "Follow Follow," is reported to have a clear right-wing agenda containing [End Page 254] frequent statements of support for the unionist cause.25 The fanzine itself claims Rangers as, "a symbol of unionism and Protestantism."26 Finally, well-known Scottish public figures, Rangers majority shareholder David Murray and former vice-chair Donald Findlay's support for the Conservatives and the union is well known.27[/quote]
and:
[quote]Although the 1990 survey noted the fall in Conservative Party support in Scotland since the 1970s, support for "the" party of the union remained high among those who esteemed their Protestant identity by recognizing its role in the formation of their cultural and political ideals and identities. For example, Glasgow Rangers supporters contained the highest percentage of football adherents surveyed who [End Page 255] opposed a British troop withdrawal from Northern Ireland (69 percent), wished Northern Ireland to remain in the Union (73 percent) and supported the British Conservative Party (32 percent). Although Rangers supporters indicated a similar figure for Labour support, their adherence to the Conservatives was the highest among all fans surveyed at a time of low electoral success for the party in Scotland—conversely, also a high point of support for Labour. In addition, outside the largely Catholic, Irish, and Labour-minded Celtic Football Club supporters, Rangers fans' support for the Scottish National Party was the lowest of all clubs. These figures are indicative of Rangers fans' affinity with unionist ideals as well as the Orange Institution with which they share a significant range of symbols, songs, and discourses.31
The 1990 survey was repeated on a smaller scale in 2001-2002. Rangers supporters' unionist identities can again be seen as evidence of the connections between unionism and Scottish Orangeism. Although only 8 percent of supporters of the top fifteen clubs in Scotland surveyed supported the Conservative Party, this contrasts with over 30 percent who identified themselves as Conservative supporters from among the Rangers fanbase. In addition, Rangers supporters were again highest in their interpretation of a solution to the Northern Ireland conflict, a large majority (70 percent) believing that Northern Ireland should remain a part of the United Kingdom.32
The continuing connections and links between Rangers supporters and Orangeism in Scotland and Northern Ireland demonstrate some of the sources and locations for unionism. They also reflect the strength and populist nature of cultural as well as political unionism in Scotland.[/quote]
http://muse.jhu.edu/
demo/eire-ireland/v0
39/39.1bradley.html
Craigy is offended?
The identities reflected in Glasgow Rangers history and fan culture have been explored by several writers. Graham Walker states that in Scotland and beyond, the club has "stood for a powerful current of popular Protestantism." Furthermore, Rangers has often been seen to encapsulate a "celebration of Scottishness that was underpinned by a strong unionism or loyalism."23 In the past, Glasgow Rangers historians Ferrier and McElroy have claimed that Rangers is the "flag carrier of what the majority of Scots would consider to be national virtues—Protestant, Monarchist tradition and Unionist."24 Esplin identifies the two most popular supporter fanzines of recent decades. He states that the editor of "The Number One" fanzine believes that "the overall thrust of the views in the "fanzine" would head in the direction of loyalist/unionist." The best selling and longest running Rangers fanzine, "Follow Follow," is reported to have a clear right-wing agenda containing frequent statements of support for the unionist cause.25 The fanzine itself claims Rangers as, "a symbol of unionism and Protestantism."26 Finally, well-known Scottish public figures, Rangers majority shareholder David Murray and former vice-chair Donald Findlay's support for the Conservatives and the union is well known.27
and:
Although the 1990 survey noted the fall in Conservative Party support in Scotland since the 1970s, support for "the" party of the union remained high among those who esteemed their Protestant identity by recognizing its role in the formation of their cultural and political ideals and identities. For example, Glasgow Rangers supporters contained the highest percentage of football adherents surveyed who opposed a British troop withdrawal from Northern Ireland (69 percent), wished Northern Ireland to remain in the Union (73 percent) and supported the British Conservative Party (32 percent). Although Rangers supporters indicated a similar figure for Labour support, their adherence to the Conservatives was the highest among all fans surveyed at a time of low electoral success for the party in Scotland—conversely, also a high point of support for Labour. In addition, outside the largely Catholic, Irish, and Labour-minded Celtic Football Club supporters, Rangers fans' support for the Scottish National Party was the lowest of all clubs. These figures are indicative of Rangers fans' affinity with unionist ideals as well as the Orange Institution with which they share a significant range of symbols, songs, and discourses.31
The 1990 survey was repeated on a smaller scale in 2001-2002. Rangers supporters' unionist identities can again be seen as evidence of the connections between unionism and Scottish Orangeism. Although only 8 percent of supporters of the top fifteen clubs in Scotland surveyed supported the Conservative Party, this contrasts with over 30 percent who identified themselves as Conservative supporters from among the Rangers fanbase. In addition, Rangers supporters were again highest in their interpretation of a solution to the Northern Ireland conflict, a large majority (70 percent) believing that Northern Ireland should remain a part of the United Kingdom.32
The continuing connections and links between Rangers supporters and Orangeism in Scotland and Northern Ireland demonstrate some of the sources and locations for unionism. They also reflect the strength and populist nature of cultural as well as political unionism in Scotland.
http://muse.jhu.edu/
demo/eire-ireland/v0
39/39.1bradley.html
Posted by: Strathturret, Montrose on 12:23am Fri 16 May 08
I've always disliked both flavours of old firm.
However, the political views of the Rangers support are interesting. Is Scotland the only country in the world where you can tell someone's politics by what team they support?
I guess support for Real Madrid/Barcelona is similar in terms of unionist/Catalan nationalist
I've always disliked both flavours of old firm.
However, the political views of the Rangers support are interesting. Is Scotland the only country in the world where you can tell someone's politics by what team they support?
I guess support for Real Madrid/Barcelona is similar in terms of unionist/Catalan nationalist
Posted by: craigy1314, south lanarkshire on 12:32am Fri 16 May 08
[quote]I'm sorry, but I don't have a huge regard for people who take 3 days off work to travel to Manchester to spend all day drinking alcohol and then watch a match on a tv screen.
I watched game at home; my TV worked. It cost me nothing and no one got hurt. Are we not supposed to be going green? Is it not rather silly to go a 400 mile round trip to watch the game on telly![/quote]
Well, yes, but hey its a free country.
BTW I watched the game at home as well, although I switched off when Zenit scored. I knew we were history and was really just amazed that they managed 70 mins wthoiut conceding a goal.
Maybe Dick (Advocatt) told his team to go easy and not do a Bayern and humiliate us!
I'm sorry, but I don't have a huge regard for people who take 3 days off work to travel to Manchester to spend all day drinking alcohol and then watch a match on a tv screen.
I watched game at home; my TV worked. It cost me nothing and no one got hurt. Are we not supposed to be going green? Is it not rather silly to go a 400 mile round trip to watch the game on telly!
Well, yes, but hey its a free country.
BTW I watched the game at home as well, although I switched off when Zenit scored. I knew we were history and was really just amazed that they managed 70 mins wthoiut conceding a goal.
Maybe Dick (Advocatt) told his team to go easy and not do a Bayern and humiliate us!
Posted by: leroy on 12:43am Fri 16 May 08
[quote][bold]Strathturret[/bold] wrote:
We can all read the script; it has been trotted out many times before. Barcelona, Birmingham..... Wrining hands from Rangers execs, we'll have a look at our signing policy, we have no policy of non-signing catholics, we are dealing with sectarianism, honest we are,.... until the next time.[/quote] If as you say the majority were well behaved. What is your idea of good behaviour, not being arrested. only p***ing in the street leaving the place in a mess a whole city centre. Please don't visit me.
Strathturret wrote:
We can all read the script; it has been trotted out many times before. Barcelona, Birmingham..... Wrining hands from Rangers execs, we'll have a look at our signing policy, we have no policy of non-signing catholics, we are dealing with sectarianism, honest we are,.... until the next time.
If as you say the majority were well behaved. What is your idea of good behaviour, not being arrested. only p***ing in the street leaving the place in a mess a whole city centre. Please don't visit me.
Posted by: craigy1314, south lanarkshire on 12:46am Fri 16 May 08
Very interesting Scunnert, but you dont to be a rocket scientist to deduce that ! most rangers fans believr N. Ireland should remain part of the UK. 2 Lots of them are in the Orange Order.3 Many vote Conservative.
It may interest you to know that I am not offended by these statistics (disappointed yes).
I and many others are and will be offended by people such as yourself eqauting all Rangers fans as mindless, drunken, bigotted thugs hell bent on wanton destruction.
Strathturret,
[quote]quote[/quote]
As you might have have guessed I am aLife long Rangers Fan.
What are my politics then?
Very interesting Scunnert, but you dont to be a rocket scientist to deduce that ! most rangers fans believr N. Ireland should remain part of the UK. 2 Lots of them are in the Orange Order.3 Many vote Conservative.
It may interest you to know that I am not offended by these statistics (disappointed yes).
I and many others are and will be offended by people such as yourself eqauting all Rangers fans as mindless, drunken, bigotted thugs hell bent on wanton destruction.
Strathturret,
quote
As you might have have guessed I am aLife long Rangers Fan.
What are my politics then?
Posted by: craigy1314, south lanarkshire on 12:59am Fri 16 May 08
If as you say the majority were well behaved. What is your idea of good behaviour, not being arrested. only p***ing in the street leaving the place in a mess a whole city centre. Please don't visit me.
Well a majority is 1 more than half the total, I put it to you that there is reasonable doubt that over 75000 people urinated on the streets of Manchester on Wednesday evening.
Yes the rubbish is a mess, however this is not exclusive to Rangers fans or football events. I used to live in Berlin which was a popular destination for touring rock bands, the litter left after a gig was considerable. However the local authorities had it cleaned up before 5am the next morning.
And before you moan about the cost, it is reckoned that Manchester's local economy benefited to the tune of some £25,000000 from visiting supporters alone, I'm sure they'll have some change left over.
If as you say the majority were well behaved. What is your idea of good behaviour, not being arrested. only p***ing in the street leaving the place in a mess a whole city centre. Please don't visit me.
Well a majority is 1 more than half the total, I put it to you that there is reasonable doubt that over 75000 people urinated on the streets of Manchester on Wednesday evening.
Yes the rubbish is a mess, however this is not exclusive to Rangers fans or football events. I used to live in Berlin which was a popular destination for touring rock bands, the litter left after a gig was considerable. However the local authorities had it cleaned up before 5am the next morning.
And before you moan about the cost, it is reckoned that Manchester's local economy benefited to the tune of some £25,000000 from visiting supporters alone, I'm sure they'll have some change left over.
Posted by: craigy1314, south lanarkshire on 1:08am Fri 16 May 08
If as you say the majority were well behaved. What is your idea of good behaviour, not being arrested. only p***ing in the street leaving the place in a mess a whole city centre. Please don't visit me.
Well a majority is 1 more than half the total, I put it to you that there is reasonable doubt that over 75000 people urinated on the streets of Manchester on Wednesday evening.
Yes the rubbish is a mess, however this is not exclusive to Rangers fans or football events. I used to live in Berlin which was a popular destination for touring rock bands, the litter left after a gig was considerable. However the local authorities had it cleaned up before 5am the next morning.
And before you moan about the cost, it is reckoned that Manchester's local economy benefited to the tune of some £25,000000 from visiting supporters alone, I'm sure they'll have some change left over.
If as you say the majority were well behaved. What is your idea of good behaviour, not being arrested. only p***ing in the street leaving the place in a mess a whole city centre. Please don't visit me.
Well a majority is 1 more than half the total, I put it to you that there is reasonable doubt that over 75000 people urinated on the streets of Manchester on Wednesday evening.
Yes the rubbish is a mess, however this is not exclusive to Rangers fans or football events. I used to live in Berlin which was a popular destination for touring rock bands, the litter left after a gig was considerable. However the local authorities had it cleaned up before 5am the next morning.
And before you moan about the cost, it is reckoned that Manchester's local economy benefited to the tune of some £25,000000 from visiting supporters alone, I'm sure they'll have some change left over.
Posted by: Steve A, Glasgow on 1:13am Fri 16 May 08
[quote][bold]craigy1314[/bold] wrote:
Very interesting Scunnert, but you dont to be a rocket scientist to deduce that ! most rangers fans believr N. Ireland should remain part of the UK. 2 Lots of them are in the Orange Order.3 Many vote Conservative. It may interest you to know that I am not offended by these statistics (disappointed yes). I and many others are and will be offended by people such as yourself eqauting all Rangers fans as mindless, drunken, bigotted thugs hell bent on wanton destruction. Strathturret, [quote]quote[/quote] As you might have have guessed I am aLife long Rangers Fan. What are my politics then? [/quote] Can understand that you are annoyed craig but this sectarian stuff has been allowed to go on in Scotland by rich selfish men that really dont care about the welfare of their fellow countrymen!This could be sorted out very easily with political will from politicians that really care about their country. Its criminal that politicians over the last few decades have chose to do nothing as they didn't give a **** all that is ever offered is meaningless sound bites from political pygmies!
craigy1314 wrote:
Very interesting Scunnert, but you dont to be a rocket scientist to deduce that ! most rangers fans believr N. Ireland should remain part of the UK. 2 Lots of them are in the Orange Order.3 Many vote Conservative. It may interest you to know that I am not offended by these statistics (disappointed yes). I and many others are and will be offended by people such as yourself eqauting all Rangers fans as mindless, drunken, bigotted thugs hell bent on wanton destruction. Strathturret, quote
As you might have have guessed I am aLife long Rangers Fan. What are my politics then?
Can understand that you are annoyed craig but this sectarian stuff has been allowed to go on in Scotland by rich selfish men that really dont care about the welfare of their fellow countrymen!This could be sorted out very easily with political will from politicians that really care about their country. Its criminal that politicians over the last few decades have chose to do nothing as they didn't give a **** all that is ever offered is meaningless sound bites from political pygmies!
Posted by: BIG G, Fa kirk on 1:49am Fri 16 May 08
Well I knew it wouldnt take long before the paranoid rants of some the old firm were heard [bold][italic]you cannot tell the politics from the football team they support[[/italic][/bold] No you cannot... but as a generalisation the vast majority of Rangers fans would rather wave the union flag than a Scottish one. You dont have to believe me watch the replays of the match. There were more union flags than the red hand of ulster and they outnumbered the saltire 10 - 1 .Celtic are no better when they reached the final they had more irish flags than scottish ones at least their fans could behave. The tartan army on the other hand can arrive at a venue drink, sing, drink, dance, drink, sing, drink ,drink OH YES AND DRINK ....and leave the locals ready to welcome them back .
What went wrong ? if drink works for the tartan army why did it work against the rangers fans if defeat does not spark of rioting with either Celtic or Scots fans why did it do so for the rangers fans?
dont get me wrong I detest what the Rangers fans have done tarnishing my Nations reputation. but I remember too that out of all the policing at the g8 summit here in Scotland that the Manchester and Metropolitan police were more heavy handed than our own
Like an accident it takes many factors to create the disgusting scenes we have watched on the box
friends who were there have claimed that some of the locals attitudes left a lot to be desired a few nasty comments made to some drunken lout (who had probably been paying the inflated prices that were being charged in pubs would have been a starting point. when the large screen broke down some of them may have remembered that Manchester did not really want tham in the fiirst place and only changed their minds when they saw how much money they would miss out on.The temperature would have got a bit higherand then Without warning (to the majoity of fans) that some streets were to be cleared of fans the police turned up with dogs and that would have been the catylist that set these nutters off
It does not help when rangers spokesmen try to pass this misbehaviour off as coiming from people who attatched themselves to rangers fans WAKE UP AND SMELL THE COFFEE!!!
Some of your fans are louts who should be hunted down and barred from the club, & instead of the club handing out stupid little union flags
(incidently the flag is shared by rangers and the only country which has been banned from european competition for the bad behaviour of fans) they should instead be pointing to the tartan army and saying we want you to be... like them. They should also be made to apologise the the entire scottish nation for souring its reputation
so I agree with Alex Salmonds call for a full investigation into the whole sorry mess.
Well I knew it wouldnt take long before the paranoid rants of some the old firm were heard
you cannot tell the politics from the football team they support[ No you cannot... but as a generalisation the vast majority of Rangers fans would rather wave the union flag than a Scottish one. You dont have to believe me watch the replays of the match. There were more union flags than the red hand of ulster and they outnumbered the saltire 10 - 1 .Celtic are no better when they reached the final they had more irish flags than scottish ones at least their fans could behave. The tartan army on the other hand can arrive at a venue drink, sing, drink, dance, drink, sing, drink ,drink OH YES AND DRINK ....and leave the locals ready to welcome them back .
What went wrong ? if drink works for the tartan army why did it work against the rangers fans if defeat does not spark of rioting with either Celtic or Scots fans why did it do so for the rangers fans?
dont get me wrong I detest what the Rangers fans have done tarnishing my Nations reputation. but I remember too that out of all the policing at the g8 summit here in Scotland that the Manchester and Metropolitan police were more heavy handed than our own
Like an accident it takes many factors to create the disgusting scenes we have watched on the box
friends who were there have claimed that some of the locals attitudes left a lot to be desired a few nasty comments made to some drunken lout (who had probably been paying the inflated prices that were being charged in pubs would have been a starting point. when the large screen broke down some of them may have remembered that Manchester did not really want tham in the fiirst place and only changed their minds when they saw how much money they would miss out on.The temperature would have got a bit higherand then Without warning (to the majoity of fans) that some streets were to be cleared of fans the police turned up with dogs and that would have been the catylist that set these nutters off
It does not help when rangers spokesmen try to pass this misbehaviour off as coiming from people who attatched themselves to rangers fans WAKE UP AND SMELL THE COFFEE!!!
Some of your fans are louts who should be hunted down and barred from the club, & instead of the club handing out stupid little union flags
(incidently the flag is shared by rangers and the only country which has been banned from european competition for the bad behaviour of fans) they should instead be pointing to the tartan army and saying we want you to be... like them. They should also be made to apologise the the entire scottish nation for souring its reputation
so I agree with Alex Salmonds call for a full investigation into the whole sorry mess.
Posted by: Wallace, Perth on 1:54am Fri 16 May 08
Craigy 1314, you sound like a reasonable person and to answer your question in one of your posts, I would guess by the pen name you have chosen, that you (currently) favour the SNP, like myself. But that's not important in this discussion.
I agree that the vast majority of the Rangers fans were not involved in any of the violence in Manchester, and it must embarrass you when these few hundred mindless drunken morons continually give your club (and Scotland) a bad name, and they are unfortunately identified by the English and other nationalities as Scottish.
However, both your club and Celtic have made millions over the years by pandering to bigotry, and only in recent years have both clubs started genuinely trying to disassociate themselves from these bigoted and racist morons, whose minds are stuck in a time warp somewhere around the 17th and 18th centuries. It will take a couple of generations of education before the central belt of our country mansges to rid itself of the "Huns and Tims" who inhabit (or should that be infest?) the communities of the likes of Larkhall and Carfin, Airdrie and Coatbridge, etc. By the way, Craigy, maybe you can explain just what Ulster and Union flags and the belting out of "Rule Britannia" have to do with a [bold]Scottish[/bold] football team playing in a European competition?
Final comment to illustrate my point - I was listening to the Radio Scotland phone-in yesterday morning, and the two points being discussed were the violence in Manchester and the tragic early death of Tommy Burns. I couldn't believe my ears when one "fan" offered as an excuse for the violence, "What you have to remember is that for these people, Rangers is their life!"
I'm sure that Tommy Burns, Celtic diehard that he was, would disagree. He would have chosen to live a few more years for the sake of his wife and family, not the football club he played for and managed.
Craigy 1314, you sound like a reasonable person and to answer your question in one of your posts, I would guess by the pen name you have chosen, that you (currently) favour the SNP, like myself. But that's not important in this discussion.
I agree that the vast majority of the Rangers fans were not involved in any of the violence in Manchester, and it must embarrass you when these few hundred mindless drunken morons continually give your club (and Scotland) a bad name, and they are unfortunately identified by the English and other nationalities as Scottish.
However, both your club and Celtic have made millions over the years by pandering to bigotry, and only in recent years have both clubs started genuinely trying to disassociate themselves from these bigoted and racist morons, whose minds are stuck in a time warp somewhere around the 17th and 18th centuries. It will take a couple of generations of education before the central belt of our country mansges to rid itself of the "Huns and Tims" who inhabit (or should that be infest?) the communities of the likes of Larkhall and Carfin, Airdrie and Coatbridge, etc. By the way, Craigy, maybe you can explain just what Ulster and Union flags and the belting out of "Rule Britannia" have to do with a
Scottish football team playing in a European competition?
Final comment to illustrate my point - I was listening to the Radio Scotland phone-in yesterday morning, and the two points being discussed were the violence in Manchester and the tragic early death of Tommy Burns. I couldn't believe my ears when one "fan" offered as an excuse for the violence, "What you have to remember is that for these people, Rangers is their life!"
I'm sure that Tommy Burns, Celtic diehard that he was, would disagree. He would have chosen to live a few more years for the sake of his wife and family, not the football club he played for and managed.
Posted by: Brizerwatt, Singapore on 4:24am Fri 16 May 08
Rangers must finally root out the Red hand of Ulster brigade. No more England songs over the tannoy, no more BNP selling newspapaers outside the gates, no more selling Ulster flags and King Billy memorabilia by hawkers around the ground. A change of team colours would be a clear statement of intent , no more red , white and blue - play in all white strips from now on. Id like to see the bas_ards singing "NO SURRENDER" while waving white flags.
Rangers must finally root out the Red hand of Ulster brigade. No more England songs over the tannoy, no more BNP selling newspapaers outside the gates, no more selling Ulster flags and King Billy memorabilia by hawkers around the ground. A change of team colours would be a clear statement of intent , no more red , white and blue - play in all white strips from now on. Id like to see the bas_ards singing "NO SURRENDER" while waving white flags.
Posted by: jonny bond, glasgow on 4:27am Fri 16 May 08
This article is so riddled with holes I dont even wish to respond but how is this it was able to hold the commonwealth games no problem. Where was it in africa that glasgow was competeing against they considered themselves capable of holding a commonwealth games. I consider a city anywhere in the so called commonwealth that bloody wants the waste of money that is the nowealth games as there hasn't been a profitable one held yet its not the olympics. There is not one mention of the so called service of a free big screen which turned into a giant open air prison 5 minutes from kick off kind of an important event in a one off event like a final its like going to the olympics only to miss the opening and closing ceremony only to see the tidlywinks played by the police after the event. That many supporters were stopped from leaving to see the game is a disgrace that is missed by the media and this reporter whose opinion now means as much to me as a bible written on second hand loo roll.
This article is so riddled with holes I dont even wish to respond but how is this it was able to hold the commonwealth games no problem. Where was it in africa that glasgow was competeing against they considered themselves capable of holding a commonwealth games. I consider a city anywhere in the so called commonwealth that bloody wants the waste of money that is the nowealth games as there hasn't been a profitable one held yet its not the olympics. There is not one mention of the so called service of a free big screen which turned into a giant open air prison 5 minutes from kick off kind of an important event in a one off event like a final its like going to the olympics only to miss the opening and closing ceremony only to see the tidlywinks played by the police after the event. That many supporters were stopped from leaving to see the game is a disgrace that is missed by the media and this reporter whose opinion now means as much to me as a bible written on second hand loo roll.
Posted by: murdo, western isles on 6:53am Fri 16 May 08
Iain- I was there yesterday, no not in Manchester but at Holyrood. The The public gallery was a sell-out but the mood of the crowd was a bit subdued. I think all were probably relieved that after the surreal nonsense of the past week or so things had quietend down. Anyway, to my point- my personal impression was that the men in the grey suits in both parties had quietly agreed that the whole Wendy debacle had been lowering the tone of the neighbourhood. The Manchester disgrace gave them the opportunity to draw a line under that episode and show some real leadership to the country. I thought that Alex was at his presidential best.
Iain- I was there yesterday, no not in Manchester but at Holyrood. The The public gallery was a sell-out but the mood of the crowd was a bit subdued. I think all were probably relieved that after the surreal nonsense of the past week or so things had quietend down. Anyway, to my point- my personal impression was that the men in the grey suits in both parties had quietly agreed that the whole Wendy debacle had been lowering the tone of the neighbourhood. The Manchester disgrace gave them the opportunity to draw a line under that episode and show some real leadership to the country. I thought that Alex was at his presidential best.
Posted by: Rev. S. Campbell, Bath on 7:37am Fri 16 May 08
[quote]These morons were not in the stadium[/quote]
The ones who stabbed the Russian fan were.
Nobody comes out of this business well. It's absolutely correct to say that Manchester copes with 76,000 fans every weekend without this sort of trouble. However, there are two issues with that. Firstly, those 76,000 people are Manchester residents, and the city's police force is big enough to cope with those numbers. 150,000 extra outsiders would swamp ANY city's infrastructure.
Secondly, and more importantly, on every normal weekend in Manchester [bold]it's illegal to drink in the street[/bold]. Manchester specifically relaxed this policy for the invasion of Rangers fans, in order to profit from them, and - however awkward it feels to say so - to a considerable degree thereby invited the problem on themselves.
Nor should we entirely dismiss the connection between a support that - uniquely in Scotland - aligns itself closely to the culture of England, and behaviour at football matches that much more closely resembles that of the English.
All of that is, of course, in absolutely no way an excuse for the substantial number of pathetic neanderthal cretins in the Rangers support who can't behave like decent human beings with a few cans in them, but still drink anyway. (And let's not pretend it's a "tiny minority". It was a lot more than 200 people who were singing "No Surrender" while the world watched.) But by actively seeking to get them all hammered by teatime, Manchester can't act all surprised that some of them then behave appallingly.
When the national team's support goes abroad and individual Tartan Army members get worse for wear or over-boisterous, their compatriots take responsibility for them and keep them under control. There must have been drunk and lairy individual Celtic fans in Seville, Aberdeen fans in Munich, and everywhere else Scottish supporters have visited, yet none smash the place up and get arrested. But the Rangers support apparently shy away from that collective responsibility - partly, in my opinion, due to the Union Jack culture they align themselves to.
The club needs to take its head out of the sand and ban ALL political banners from the ground and all officially sanctioned supporters clubs - and yes, in the context of Scottish football the Union Flag is a political banner (as is the Irish tricolour, no matter what weasel excuses are offered). The Old Firm play in Scotland, not Ireland, and there is no such nation as "Britain" where football is concerned. (Who are champions of the British League? Who is playing in the upcoming British Cup final?)
Only by disassociating itself from their ugly past in such an unambiguous way will they complete the significant work both clubs have done in leaving their historical bigotry behind.
These morons were not in the stadium
The ones who stabbed the Russian fan were.
Nobody comes out of this business well. It's absolutely correct to say that Manchester copes with 76,000 fans every weekend without this sort of trouble. However, there are two issues with that. Firstly, those 76,000 people are Manchester residents, and the city's police force is big enough to cope with those numbers. 150,000 extra outsiders would swamp ANY city's infrastructure.
Secondly, and more importantly, on every normal weekend in Manchester
it's illegal to drink in the street. Manchester specifically relaxed this policy for the invasion of Rangers fans, in order to profit from them, and - however awkward it feels to say so - to a considerable degree thereby invited the problem on themselves.
Nor should we entirely dismiss the connection between a support that - uniquely in Scotland - aligns itself closely to the culture of England, and behaviour at football matches that much more closely resembles that of the English.
All of that is, of course, in absolutely no way an excuse for the substantial number of pathetic neanderthal cretins in the Rangers support who can't behave like decent human beings with a few cans in them, but still drink anyway. (And let's not pretend it's a "tiny minority". It was a lot more than 200 people who were singing "No Surrender" while the world watched.) But by actively seeking to get them all hammered by teatime, Manchester can't act all surprised that some of them then behave appallingly.
When the national team's support goes abroad and individual Tartan Army members get worse for wear or over-boisterous, their compatriots take responsibility for them and keep them under control. There must have been drunk and lairy individual Celtic fans in Seville, Aberdeen fans in Munich, and everywhere else Scottish supporters have visited, yet none smash the place up and get arrested. But the Rangers support apparently shy away from that collective responsibility - partly, in my opinion, due to the Union Jack culture they align themselves to.
The club needs to take its head out of the sand and ban ALL political banners from the ground and all officially sanctioned supporters clubs - and yes, in the context of Scottish football the Union Flag is a political banner (as is the Irish tricolour, no matter what weasel excuses are offered). The Old Firm play in Scotland, not Ireland, and there is no such nation as "Britain" where football is concerned. (Who are champions of the British League? Who is playing in the upcoming British Cup final?)
Only by disassociating itself from their ugly past in such an unambiguous way will they complete the significant work both clubs have done in leaving their historical bigotry behind.
Posted by: art1000, Dunfermline on 7:45am Fri 16 May 08
It was ironical that at just the point the mindless minority started to pump out 'No Surrendurr' within earshot of Platini then Zenit scored. Luckily there was no trouble at the stadium so I do not think a UEFA ban will be on the cards unless the sectarian chanting counts or the inquiry points blame at Rangers FC in some way.
It was ironical that at just the point the mindless minority started to pump out 'No Surrendurr' within earshot of Platini then Zenit scored. Luckily there was no trouble at the stadium so I do not think a UEFA ban will be on the cards unless the sectarian chanting counts or the inquiry points blame at Rangers FC in some way.
Posted by: bluenose, Glasgow on 7:54am Fri 16 May 08
Well no doubt about my football allegiances!!!
Those that have read my postings will know that my politics are equally transparent , I am an avowed Nationalist of the Scottish variation not the British type.
Let me at the outset say this there is NO EXCUSE whatsoever for the behaviour in Manchester nothing upon nothing justifys such barbaric behaviour by any amount of fans .
The vast majority did behave themselves however it does not detract from those that besmirched the club , the city of Glasgow and the nation of Scotland .
As a Rangers fan I am disgusted as are many others ,however others on here who use this as a chance to knock the Rangers are not helping the situation .
I would say that as someone who has followed Rangers for almost 50 years there is an element in the support that are to say the least revolting .
They are the hardcore Unionist type ,the Queen , Ulster and Britain mob.
Usually not the brightest lights in the street ,narrow minded bigots and to a man voters for the union.(could these people be another of those union benefits we hear of?)
In defence of some of the criticism , I was in the Piccadilly Gardens before setting off to the match some FACTS
25,000 people and not 1 toilet , all bars and local Pizza Express shops etc refusing entry to toilets what do you expect people to do ??
The litter well perhaps if the Daily Retard , Sun and Evening Times all good unionist papers were not handing our tens of thousands of FREE special editions the litter would have been less , perhaps if there had been one bin in the square or a bottle bank the rubbish would have been less.
Even the leader of the Manchester council admitted that the rubbish was expected and cleared and that the vast majority behaved so would those with agendas kindly stop the rhetroic just to get at the football team you hate .
I personally find any Rangers fan wearing a England football shirt to be a disgrace ,equally all the Celtic fans in Ireland tops are equally offensive,last time Iooked these two clubs were in Glasgow , playing in the Scottish league and not in England or Ireland.
I have previously written to Rangers FC suggesting ditching the British banner and hitching themselves to the Scottish brand it makes more economic sense etc I was politely ignored .
The fact is Rangers have no true or real identity for their fans to cling to , Celtic play the Paddy card well wherever there is an Irishman they have a potential customer .
Rangers for economics alone should ditch the British /Ulster brand and help rid themselves of the element that hang around
Well no doubt about my football allegiances!!!
Those that have read my postings will know that my politics are equally transparent , I am an avowed Nationalist of the Scottish variation not the British type.
Let me at the outset say this there is NO EXCUSE whatsoever for the behaviour in Manchester nothing upon nothing justifys such barbaric behaviour by any amount of fans .
The vast majority did behave themselves however it does not detract from those that besmirched the club , the city of Glasgow and the nation of Scotland .
As a Rangers fan I am disgusted as are many others ,however others on here who use this as a chance to knock the Rangers are not helping the situation .
I would say that as someone who has followed Rangers for almost 50 years there is an element in the support that are to say the least revolting .
They are the hardcore Unionist type ,the Queen , Ulster and Britain mob.
Usually not the brightest lights in the street ,narrow minded bigots and to a man voters for the union.(could these people be another of those union benefits we hear of?)
In defence of some of the criticism , I was in the Piccadilly Gardens before setting off to the match some FACTS
25,000 people and not 1 toilet , all bars and local Pizza Express shops etc refusing entry to toilets what do you expect people to do ??
The litter well perhaps if the Daily Retard , Sun and Evening Times all good unionist papers were not handing our tens of thousands of FREE special editions the litter would have been less , perhaps if there had been one bin in the square or a bottle bank the rubbish would have been less.
Even the leader of the Manchester council admitted that the rubbish was expected and cleared and that the vast majority behaved so would those with agendas kindly stop the rhetroic just to get at the football team you hate .
I personally find any Rangers fan wearing a England football shirt to be a disgrace ,equally all the Celtic fans in Ireland tops are equally offensive,last time Iooked these two clubs were in Glasgow , playing in the Scottish league and not in England or Ireland.
I have previously written to Rangers FC suggesting ditching the British banner and hitching themselves to the Scottish brand it makes more economic sense etc I was politely ignored .
The fact is Rangers have no true or real identity for their fans to cling to , Celtic play the Paddy card well wherever there is an Irishman they have a potential customer .
Rangers for economics alone should ditch the British /Ulster brand and help rid themselves of the element that hang around
Posted by: lang sandy, weel up the howe on 8:08am Fri 16 May 08
bad luck rangers for the result.But i agree with the above poster , you and your green neighbours need to ditch the northern ireland agenda ,waken up and realise the rest of scotland is utterly sickened by the way some of your fans behaved in manchester . You let scotland down which in this day and age is just about as low as you can go.if it was up to me id ship ibrox out of scotland altogether maybe belfast would tolerate you ,but i doubt it
bad luck rangers for the result.But i agree with the above poster , you and your green neighbours need to ditch the northern ireland agenda ,waken up and realise the rest of scotland is utterly sickened by the way some of your fans behaved in manchester . You let scotland down which in this day and age is just about as low as you can go.if it was up to me id ship ibrox out of scotland altogether maybe belfast would tolerate you ,but i doubt it
Posted by: lang sandy, weel up the howe on 8:11am Fri 16 May 08
BTW im not a celtic fan ,but im gutted by the death of tommy burns.A true scottish legend RIP
BTW im not a celtic fan ,but im gutted by the death of tommy burns.A true scottish legend RIP
Posted by: boab, Ayrshire on 8:55am Fri 16 May 08
I, like many others am a Gers fan and also SNP supporter. I'm as disgusted as anyone else about what happened. I agree we have our idiot elements like every other club. However, I must say that there is no evidence that the trouble was necessarily caused by Rangers fans. Any time British clubs go abroad it is much easier for the police to check who's going to the match and stop troublemakers (I've been asked for my passport at an airport the day before a big international game by the police - I must look the type!). However, with Manchester, and the sheer numbers, it was virtually impossible for the police to stop known hooligans of any variety turning up with Rangers tops on and blending in, waiting for their chance.
This in no way excuses what happened and there's a chance that they may all have been Rangers fans. But equally they may not. I may not have put it across very well but I hope people can see my point. It's just a shame that the trouble will be forever identified with Rangers.
As to the Red Hand flags etc, I can't understand why stewards don't just confiscate all the King Billy nonsense at the turnstiles or during the game if one gets smuggled in. That would quickly get the message across. Yes it may annoy some people but I'm sure they'd understand.
As for the team colours, I was led to believe that the blue and white was for the colours of the Scotland flag and the red and black socks (what happened to them on Wednesday?) were for the colours of either the Glasgow city or Glasgow Fire Brigade(can't remember which). I may be wrong but it's what I've been told.
I, like many others am a Gers fan and also SNP supporter. I'm as disgusted as anyone else about what happened. I agree we have our idiot elements like every other club. However, I must say that there is no evidence that the trouble was necessarily caused by Rangers fans. Any time British clubs go abroad it is much easier for the police to check who's going to the match and stop troublemakers (I've been asked for my passport at an airport the day before a big international game by the police - I must look the type!). However, with Manchester, and the sheer numbers, it was virtually impossible for the police to stop known hooligans of any variety turning up with Rangers tops on and blending in, waiting for their chance.
This in no way excuses what happened and there's a chance that they may all have been Rangers fans. But equally they may not. I may not have put it across very well but I hope people can see my point. It's just a shame that the trouble will be forever identified with Rangers.
As to the Red Hand flags etc, I can't understand why stewards don't just confiscate all the King Billy nonsense at the turnstiles or during the game if one gets smuggled in. That would quickly get the message across. Yes it may annoy some people but I'm sure they'd understand.
As for the team colours, I was led to believe that the blue and white was for the colours of the Scotland flag and the red and black socks (what happened to them on Wednesday?) were for the colours of either the Glasgow city or Glasgow Fire Brigade(can't remember which). I may be wrong but it's what I've been told.
Posted by: Strathturret, Montrose on 8:56am Fri 16 May 08
Spot on Brizerwatt, Singapore
I have always thought that the Old Firm have always played lip service to tackling their common problems.
So yes, a change of strip colour as a starter for both teams.
Refuse to sell tickets to any fans outwith of Scotland. So stop importing Irish bile.
Ban foreign flags (Union Jack and Irish tricolour).
Wear the saltire on their jerseys. If Inter Milan can proudly wear the Italian Flag on their shirts why can't the Old Firm be proud of their country?
Stop all alcohol sponsorship now!
Spot on Brizerwatt, Singapore
I have always thought that the Old Firm have always played lip service to tackling their common problems.
So yes, a change of strip colour as a starter for both teams.
Refuse to sell tickets to any fans outwith of Scotland. So stop importing Irish bile.
Ban foreign flags (Union Jack and Irish tricolour).
Wear the saltire on their jerseys. If Inter Milan can proudly wear the Italian Flag on their shirts why can't the Old Firm be proud of their country?
Stop all alcohol sponsorship now!
Posted by: Mike, Edinburgh on 9:02am Fri 16 May 08
Well its quite good reading, to listen to Rangers Fans stating openly that the Union Jack and other symbols of a foreign country and culture are in no way acceptable. I applaud their frankness, and realisation that its okay to support a sporting team, without listening or tolerating bigotry and a treacherous attitude to their own kind. The Rangers Football Club must come into the 21th Century, as must the Celtic Football Club. Neither one of their clubs or supporters should ever be permitted to promote a pro british stance. The average Rangers Fan has got absolutely nothing to do with the British Nation or the Irish Nation. This is Scotland and every Scot should be commited to the Welfare of its own people first in every case. How any Scottish Person could even think for one moment about voting for anyone or Country ahead of Scots is beyond me. You have got nothing to do with any other Nation. The British Parliament cannot even begin to realise the thoughts or welfare of Scots. We are a unique people who have made significant contributions to the World. Rangers/Celtic/Aberd
een/Hearts/Hibs are merely entertainment, not real life. Billions of People throughout the World support their favourite sporting organisations, without bringing in religous bigotry, hatred of their fellow countrymen simply because they cheer for a bunch of men, who happen to wear different coloured strips.
If you want to wear Irish Flags and colours, go and live in Ireland. If you want to associate with Northern Ireland and Britain, go live there. Then we Scots can actually get on with making Scotland a better place for both ourselves and our future generations. I support my team, and you can be sure of one thing. They are Scottish and are proud to be Scottish. They dont kick people in the head and put many into hospitals or coffins. They simply go and pay their money to watch a sporting event.
Glasgow needs to grow up and throw both the two faced English Labour Party and the Bigots out on their ear. If they want to act like or vote like English People, **** off. If they value a Football club ahead of their own kind, then the same applies, just dont hit yourselves in the erky with the door on the way out.
Well its quite good reading, to listen to Rangers Fans stating openly that the Union Jack and other symbols of a foreign country and culture are in no way acceptable. I applaud their frankness, and realisation that its okay to support a sporting team, without listening or tolerating bigotry and a treacherous attitude to their own kind. The Rangers Football Club must come into the 21th Century, as must the Celtic Football Club. Neither one of their clubs or supporters should ever be permitted to promote a pro british stance. The average Rangers Fan has got absolutely nothing to do with the British Nation or the Irish Nation. This is Scotland and every Scot should be commited to the Welfare of its own people first in every case. How any Scottish Person could even think for one moment about voting for anyone or Country ahead of Scots is beyond me. You have got nothing to do with any other Nation. The British Parliament cannot even begin to realise the thoughts or welfare of Scots. We are a unique people who have made significant contributions to the World. Rangers/Celtic/Aberd
een/Hearts/Hibs are merely entertainment, not real life. Billions of People throughout the World support their favourite sporting organisations, without bringing in religous bigotry, hatred of their fellow countrymen simply because they cheer for a bunch of men, who happen to wear different coloured strips.
If you want to wear Irish Flags and colours, go and live in Ireland. If you want to associate with Northern Ireland and Britain, go live there. Then we Scots can actually get on with making Scotland a better place for both ourselves and our future generations. I support my team, and you can be sure of one thing. They are Scottish and are proud to be Scottish. They dont kick people in the head and put many into hospitals or coffins. They simply go and pay their money to watch a sporting event.
Glasgow needs to grow up and throw both the two faced English Labour Party and the Bigots out on their ear. If they want to act like or vote like English People, **** off. If they value a Football club ahead of their own kind, then the same applies, just dont hit yourselves in the erky with the door on the way out.
Posted by: sid the sceptic, renfrewshire on 9:33am Fri 16 May 08
it is quite sad that we all have to start these posts with I AM NOT A CELTIC SUPPORTER . if the police fail to identify the thugs from wednsday's disgrace a very easy way of rounding them up would be to set up surveylance all over the west of scotland's main streets for a couple of weekends in july . the hangers on with the rangers tops the union jacks and the carry out would be a good place to start. the chances are they are that thick they would brag about what they got up to in manchester. they have probably also bombarded u tube ( well named) .football & the orange walk are only an excuse to cause as much trouble as possible.you can ban them all you like the chances are a lot of them never actually go to games but they know no one will do anything about them because we never have and they will carry on being scum.our country is being dragged thru the gutter by scum that no political party are prepared to actually deal with once and for all. who will take them on ? our politicians are quite happy to go round the world sorting people out but will not sort the problems in there own country
it is quite sad that we all have to start these posts with I AM NOT A CELTIC SUPPORTER . if the police fail to identify the thugs from wednsday's disgrace a very easy way of rounding them up would be to set up surveylance all over the west of scotland's main streets for a couple of weekends in july . the hangers on with the rangers tops the union jacks and the carry out would be a good place to start. the chances are they are that thick they would brag about what they got up to in manchester. they have probably also bombarded u tube ( well named) .football & the orange walk are only an excuse to cause as much trouble as possible.you can ban them all you like the chances are a lot of them never actually go to games but they know no one will do anything about them because we never have and they will carry on being scum.our country is being dragged thru the gutter by scum that no political party are prepared to actually deal with once and for all. who will take them on ? our politicians are quite happy to go round the world sorting people out but will not sort the problems in there own country
Posted by: megz, glasgow on 9:42am Fri 16 May 08
[quote]If it fails to say "Welcome Attila, wreck anything you like", that does not count as a deficiency.[/quote]
lol i like what you did there.
I agree with mike, i'm protestant and a celtic supporter but i'm scottish first and foremost.
If it fails to say "Welcome Attila, wreck anything you like", that does not count as a deficiency.
lol i like what you did there.
I agree with mike, i'm protestant and a celtic supporter but i'm scottish first and foremost.
Posted by: fishface, edinburgh on 9:51am Fri 16 May 08
[quote]The Rangers FC fans who came to lay tr
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