Gaffe reveals cabinet fears amid budget concessions
Too little, too late? As Labour MPs absorbed the details of what was effectively a mini-budget by the Chancellor last night some were left feeling slightly euphoric, if only because it is the first time in many a week that they have had cause to show some cheer.
Every time the government has tried to get itself back on track it is tripped up by the next disaster. Yesterday it was Caroline Flint's misfortune to reveal the inner fears of the cabinet. The Housing Minister's briefing notes were on display on the way into Downing Street detailing how the UK Government expects, along with everyone else, that house prices will crash this year. "We can't know how bad it will get," is what she was due to tell colleagues in private.
But her papers also demonstrated how hollow the government's rhetoric has become. The empty phrase: "It is vital that we show that at this time of uncertainty we show that we are on people's side" (sic) was underlined on the page. Whatever that means Alistair Darling was on his feet in the afternoon proving, at considerable cost, that this is a government that helps the poor, not robs them.
But did his £2.7bn emergency white rabbit produce the right result? From Crewe and Nantwich, the crucial by-election taking place next week, word comes back that it is already too late. Labour is prepared to be slaughtered there with Gordon Brown's personality as much an issue for discontent as the lightning rod 10p tax rate.
Because the Chancellor has run up the white flag it does look as if the Commons budget vote will be carried, removing one immediate threat to Mr Brown's short premiership. Much of the cash will go to middle-income earners unaffected by the tax changes but Labour can argue this is a Chancellor who feels the pain of rising inflation, which hit 3% yesterday, rising food prices and fuel costs.
Of course the winners will be ungrateful and the losers vengeful but at least people can understand what is being done. "I was nervous it would be a very complicated solution that would drag on for months but this has the advantage of simplicity and speed," said Edinburgh MP Mark Lazarowicz. "People were anxious that we sort out our difficulties and we can now go out and say the government is listening."
"There is a bonus here," said Glasgow South-West MP Ian Davidson. "The whole political debate has moved on to how we look after the poor. That's our territory and we can make much more progress on that ground this year and next."
Last night George Osborne, the Shadow Chancellor, argued that the 1.1 million people who won't be affected are among the lowest of the low income band. Scotland's low-wage economy means poor Scots will be disproportionate losers said Osborne. That might be true but for once it was the Opposition which looked wrong-footed.
Conservative empathy for the low paid smelled of cynicism to one Labour minister and in that chink, also identified by Mr Davidson, could come the spur for a fightback. "Can you imagine for a second Conservative back benchers forcing their Chancellor to change the budget for the sake of the poor," asked the Minister. "We can draw strength from the fact that we've been in a rough patch and come through it. I think Gordon and Alistair have come through it."
But as Ms Flint's gaffe demonstrated the next disaster could only be a few hours away.
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Posted by: Wardog, Buckie on 10:23pm Tue 13 May 08
[bold]
LABOUR IN CLASSIC TORY TAX BRIBE SCANDAL[/bold]
The additional 'help' is for one year only, a tax bribe that still leaves [bold]1.1 Million[/bold] of the Lowest paid workers worse off with the other [bold]4.1 Million[/bold] of the Lower decile paying the same tax whilst [bold]those on £18500-£40000 will pay less tax, with some up to £500 better off[/bold] as a result of this unprecedented budget fix.
This is borrowed money, unsustainable beyond this tax year.
A one-off payment, a one-off solution to tax rises that hit [bold]EVERY[/bold] year
No one is fooled about why the Chancellor is making this statement today
He's panicking in the face of the Crewe and Nantwich by-election, knowing full well that it will be the start of the avalanche that will signal the end of his premiership.
[bold]Can anyone take Capability Brown seriously anymore after this as yet unsorted fiasco, the utter incompetence, faux socialist ideals and pandering to the middle classes is a lesson on what Labour have become these days.[/bold]
The hilarious thing is we'll have Scottish Labour screaming for a YES vote in the 2010 Referendum once they realise that the Tories have risen to power at Westminster.
LABOUR IN CLASSIC TORY TAX BRIBE SCANDAL
The additional 'help' is for one year only, a tax bribe that still leaves
1.1 Million of the Lowest paid workers worse off with the other
4.1 Million of the Lower decile paying the same tax whilst
those on £18500-£40000 will pay less tax, with some up to £500 better off as a result of this unprecedented budget fix.
This is borrowed money, unsustainable beyond this tax year.
A one-off payment, a one-off solution to tax rises that hit
EVERY year
No one is fooled about why the Chancellor is making this statement today
He's panicking in the face of the Crewe and Nantwich by-election, knowing full well that it will be the start of the avalanche that will signal the end of his premiership.
Can anyone take Capability Brown seriously anymore after this as yet unsorted fiasco, the utter incompetence, faux socialist ideals and pandering to the middle classes is a lesson on what Labour have become these days.
The hilarious thing is we'll have Scottish Labour screaming for a YES vote in the 2010 Referendum once they realise that the Tories have risen to power at Westminster.
Posted by: John Leven, Leven Fife on 10:58pm Tue 13 May 08
As someone who was a loser when Broon doubled the starting rate of tax, and I am still a loser with this part U turn, and I am vengeful.
The quote from the numpty Ian Davidson,
[bold]"There is a bonus here," said Glasgow South-West MP Ian Davidson. "The whole political debate has moved on to how we look after the poor. That's our territory and we can make much more progress on that ground this year and next."[/bold]
would be laughable if it were not so serious. Labour have not only abandoned the poor and less well off, they did it knowingly and to quote Ed Balls "who cares" though to be fair any Labour numptie could have made the same quote, as they are all tarred with the same brush.
Here is a message for the Labour numpties, 1.1 million people are a lot of voters, and with the numbers involved a large percentage of them will be in Labour held seats. We may just remind you of your parties deserting the poor the next time you come looking for votes.
As someone who was a loser when Broon doubled the starting rate of tax, and I am still a loser with this part U turn, and I am vengeful.
The quote from the numpty Ian Davidson,
"There is a bonus here," said Glasgow South-West MP Ian Davidson. "The whole political debate has moved on to how we look after the poor. That's our territory and we can make much more progress on that ground this year and next."
would be laughable if it were not so serious. Labour have not only abandoned the poor and less well off, they did it knowingly and to quote Ed Balls "who cares" though to be fair any Labour numptie could have made the same quote, as they are all tarred with the same brush.
Here is a message for the Labour numpties, 1.1 million people are a lot of voters, and with the numbers involved a large percentage of them will be in Labour held seats. We may just remind you of your parties deserting the poor the next time you come looking for votes.
Posted by: tris, scotland on 11:08pm Tue 13 May 08
[quote]"Can you imagine for a second Conservative back benchers forcing their Chancellor to change the budget for the sake of the poor," asked the Minister. "We can draw strength from the fact that we've been in a rough patch and come through it. I think Gordon and Alistair have come through it."[/quote]
Nope, the minister was right in the first half of what he said there... the Tories wouldn't be able to do that. (The second half was wishful thinking.)
But there is a fatal flaw here. They didn't get the chancellor to take steps to help the poor. (The very poorest weren't helped at all. And the Labour MPs seem to have forgotten that. Plus the people who were helped were only helped for a year, and he had to borrow money to do it.) What really happened was they got the chancellor to take these somewhat inadequate steps in order to try to try to save their own bacon, and places at the trough.
The bulk of these people don't give any more of a toss about the poor, or have any more understanding of what it is to live at the bottom than the Tories... That is NONE.
The all make me sick.
"Can you imagine for a second Conservative back benchers forcing their Chancellor to change the budget for the sake of the poor," asked the Minister. "We can draw strength from the fact that we've been in a rough patch and come through it. I think Gordon and Alistair have come through it."
Nope, the minister was right in the first half of what he said there... the Tories wouldn't be able to do that. (The second half was wishful thinking.)
But there is a fatal flaw here. They didn't get the chancellor to take steps to help the poor. (The very poorest weren't helped at all. And the Labour MPs seem to have forgotten that. Plus the people who were helped were only helped for a year, and he had to borrow money to do it.) What really happened was they got the chancellor to take these somewhat inadequate steps in order to try to try to save their own bacon, and places at the trough.
The bulk of these people don't give any more of a toss about the poor, or have any more understanding of what it is to live at the bottom than the Tories... That is NONE.
The all make me sick.
Posted by: Free Thinker, North Lanarkshire on 11:21pm Tue 13 May 08
The propaganda spin has started by the removal of comments from the key contentious story...
[bold]PROPAGANDA ALERT![/bold]
The propaganda spin has started by the removal of comments from the key contentious story...
PROPAGANDA ALERT! Posted by: Wardog, Buckie on 11:53pm Tue 13 May 08
[quote][bold]Free Thinker[/bold] wrote:
The propaganda spin has started by the removal of comments from the key contentious story...
[bold]PROPAGANDA ALERT![/bold] [/quote]
There doesn't seem to be any logic to the Herald's censoring of comments other that they are Scottish Political Stories.
Free Thinker wrote:
The propaganda spin has started by the removal of comments from the key contentious story...
PROPAGANDA ALERT!
There doesn't seem to be any logic to the Herald's censoring of comments other that they are Scottish Political Stories.
Posted by: The Wise One, Glasgow on 11:56pm Tue 13 May 08
Will the 5.3 million voters ever again trust a man who was prepared to fleece them into poverty just to show how financially astute he was.
I think not. That is the real lesson from this whole sorry affair.
Will the 5.3 million voters ever again trust a man who was prepared to fleece them into poverty just to show how financially astute he was.
I think not. That is the real lesson from this whole sorry affair.
Posted by: David, Scotland on 12:04am Wed 14 May 08
[bold]I have discovered that Labour now realise that a large proportion of their supporters would vote for Independence for Scotland.[/bold] They are shocked but those of us who have bothered to LISTEN and not pretend knew this already. Some of the panic is to ensure these supporters are not turned off Labour. Next week I will release some information on the Lib/dems and Tories. (not so much support as within Labour but not insignificant.)
I have discovered that Labour now realise that a large proportion of their supporters would vote for Independence for Scotland. They are shocked but those of us who have bothered to LISTEN and not pretend knew this already. Some of the panic is to ensure these supporters are not turned off Labour. Next week I will release some information on the Lib/dems and Tories. (not so much support as within Labour but not insignificant.)
Posted by: Morag, Peeblesshire on 12:08am Wed 14 May 08
[quote]"There is a bonus here," said Glasgow South-West MP Ian Davidson. "The whole political debate has moved on to how we look after the poor. That's our territory and we can make much more progress on that ground this year and next."[/quote]Yeah, that [italic]is[/italic] your territory, you smug, condescending trough-feeder.
Make sure that as many people as possible have to beg for benefits in order to live, fill in complicated forms and prostrate themselves before the apparatchiks just for enough to live on. So that you can keep them loyal by presenting yourselves as the party of the poor. Which needs as many poor as possible to keep getting elected. And needs them to know they are getting special hand-outs so that they can be scared off voting for another party by the threat that these hand-outs may be withdrawn.
Labour makes me sick.
"There is a bonus here," said Glasgow South-West MP Ian Davidson. "The whole political debate has moved on to how we look after the poor. That's our territory and we can make much more progress on that ground this year and next."
Yeah, that
is your territory, you smug, condescending trough-feeder.
Make sure that as many people as possible have to beg for benefits in order to live, fill in complicated forms and prostrate themselves before the apparatchiks just for enough to live on. So that you can keep them loyal by presenting yourselves as the party of the poor. Which needs as many poor as possible to keep getting elected. And needs them to know they are getting special hand-outs so that they can be scared off voting for another party by the threat that these hand-outs may be withdrawn.
Labour makes me sick.
Posted by: Duns Scotus, The Borders on 12:09am Wed 14 May 08
Brown ran the UK economy for a decade on credit cards. Now he is borrowing from one credit card to pay off others.
Brown ran the UK economy for a decade on credit cards. Now he is borrowing from one credit card to pay off others.
Posted by: frank mcbride, lusitania on 12:24am Wed 14 May 08
This is a PFI/PPP rewriting of the 2007 Budget.
Everyone, but particularly the least well-off, will have to pay for this in the years to come.
[bold]The real disgrace, though, is that it is the well-off who will benefit most from these measures[/bold] .
This is a PFI/PPP rewriting of the 2007 Budget.
Everyone, but particularly the least well-off, will have to pay for this in the years to come.
The real disgrace, though, is that it is the well-off who will benefit most from these measures .
Posted by: Vivas, Embra on 12:38am Wed 14 May 08
[quote][bold]Morag[/bold] wrote:
[quote]"There is a bonus here," said Glasgow South-West MP Ian Davidson. "The whole political debate has moved on to how we look after the poor. That's our territory and we can make much more progress on that ground this year and next."[/quote]Yeah, that [italic]is[/italic] your territory, you smug, condescending trough-feeder.
Make sure that as many people as possible have to beg for benefits in order to live, fill in complicated forms and prostrate themselves before the apparatchiks just for enough to live on. So that you can keep them loyal by presenting yourselves as the party of the poor. Which needs as many poor as possible to keep getting elected. And needs them to know they are getting special hand-outs so that they can be scared off voting for another party by the threat that these hand-outs may be withdrawn.
Labour makes me sick.
[/quote] Well said Morag, I 100% agree with you that Labour institutionalises dependency in order to maintain a climate of fear that such "benefits" will be removed by other parties. It's a disgusting trick since for many low-income earners this is in fact just money that they have already earned ... but then need to go cap in hand and with bowed head to claw it back from the bureaucracy. I repeat. Disgusting.
PS: It's [italic]almost[/italic] as good as your insightful Alexander piece 2 nights ago :-)))))
Morag wrote:
"There is a bonus here," said Glasgow South-West MP Ian Davidson. "The whole political debate has moved on to how we look after the poor. That's our territory and we can make much more progress on that ground this year and next."
Yeah, that is your territory, you smug, condescending trough-feeder.
Make sure that as many people as possible have to beg for benefits in order to live, fill in complicated forms and prostrate themselves before the apparatchiks just for enough to live on. So that you can keep them loyal by presenting yourselves as the party of the poor. Which needs as many poor as possible to keep getting elected. And needs them to know they are getting special hand-outs so that they can be scared off voting for another party by the threat that these hand-outs may be withdrawn.
Labour makes me sick.
Well said Morag, I 100% agree with you that Labour institutionalises dependency in order to maintain a climate of fear that such "benefits" will be removed by other parties. It's a disgusting trick since for many low-income earners this is in fact just money that they have already earned ... but then need to go cap in hand and with bowed head to claw it back from the bureaucracy. I repeat. Disgusting.
PS: It's
almost as good as your insightful Alexander piece 2 nights ago :-)))))
Posted by: Jwil, Lanarkshire on 12:40am Wed 14 May 08
The problem for Labour is that this tax rebate will be seen as disingenuous. Because, if they can omit to consider the situation of 5.2 m of the poorest, then try to rectify the problem in time to win the Crewe parliamentary seat, this suggests if it had been at any other time they would have ignored the problem. Also, Darling is making no promises about next year's tax structure, so how can we trust him. I don't think this will help them.
The problem for Labour is that this tax rebate will be seen as disingenuous. Because, if they can omit to consider the situation of 5.2 m of the poorest, then try to rectify the problem in time to win the Crewe parliamentary seat, this suggests if it had been at any other time they would have ignored the problem. Also, Darling is making no promises about next year's tax structure, so how can we trust him. I don't think this will help them.
Posted by: clochoderic, renfrewshire on 1:16am Wed 14 May 08
The losers from this are the absolutely worse-off on 6-8 grand a year.
New labour, what a joke.
The losers from this are the absolutely worse-off on 6-8 grand a year.
New labour, what a joke.
Posted by: Tired of excuses, Galashiels on 1:25am Wed 14 May 08
Are there any Labour voters left out there ?
Are there any Labour voters left out there ?
Posted by: allymax, Yuk on 1:33am Wed 14 May 08
Can't remember the headline, so,
COME ON RANGERS !
Can't remember the headline, so,
COME ON RANGERS !
Posted by: Hamish McKropotkin, Bannockburn on 7:03am Wed 14 May 08
[quote][bold]Wardog[/bold] wrote:
[quote][bold]Free Thinker[/bold] wrote: The propaganda spin has started by the removal of comments from the key contentious story... [bold]PROPAGANDA ALERT![/bold] [/quote] There doesn't seem to be any logic to the Herald's censoring of comments other that they are Scottish Political Stories.[/quote] Erm, the nationalist smear machine goes too far and the Herald can't afford to defend itself against anybody who wants to take thew Herald to task.
The Herald is responsible for content on these sites.
The nationalists are so delusional now that they don't even realise how offensive many of their posts are.
The Herald does and isn't so stupid that they would risk any action taken agaisnt them.
Incidentally, it's worth pointing ou that calling for somebody to be sacked on their employer's web site is pretty awful behaviour. Care to comment on all the nats screaming for various Herald employees to be sacked for daring to write stories the nats disagree with?
What price democracy, eh?
Welcome to the SNP vision of an independent Scotland: bitter and intolerant? No thanks.
Wardog wrote:
Free Thinker wrote: The propaganda spin has started by the removal of comments from the key contentious story... PROPAGANDA ALERT!
There doesn't seem to be any logic to the Herald's censoring of comments other that they are Scottish Political Stories.
Erm, the nationalist smear machine goes too far and the Herald can't afford to defend itself against anybody who wants to take thew Herald to task.
The Herald is responsible for content on these sites.
The nationalists are so delusional now that they don't even realise how offensive many of their posts are.
The Herald does and isn't so stupid that they would risk any action taken agaisnt them.
Incidentally, it's worth pointing ou that calling for somebody to be sacked on their employer's web site is pretty awful behaviour. Care to comment on all the nats screaming for various Herald employees to be sacked for daring to write stories the nats disagree with?
What price democracy, eh?
Welcome to the SNP vision of an independent Scotland: bitter and intolerant? No thanks.
Posted by: Hamish McKropotkin, Bannockburn on 7:06am Wed 14 May 08
[quote][bold]allymax[/bold] wrote:
Can't remember the headline, so, COME ON RANGERS ![/quote] Well said, any nats out there care to wish the British representatives in the UEFA Cup good luck tonight?
Or does the sight of so many 'butcher's aprons' turn your stomachs?
They are Scottish AND British after all.....
allymax wrote:
Can't remember the headline, so, COME ON RANGERS !
Well said, any nats out there care to wish the British representatives in the UEFA Cup good luck tonight?
Or does the sight of so many 'butcher's aprons' turn your stomachs?
They are Scottish AND British after all.....
Posted by: Hamish McKropotkin, Bannockburn on 7:16am Wed 14 May 08
[quote][bold]Vivas[/bold] wrote:
[quote][bold]Morag[/bold] wrote: [quote]"There is a bonus here," said Glasgow South-West MP Ian Davidson. "The whole political debate has moved on to how we look after the poor. That's our territory and we can make much more progress on that ground this year and next."[/quote]Yeah, that [italic]is[/italic] your territory, you smug, condescending trough-feeder. Make sure that as many people as possible have to beg for benefits in order to live, fill in complicated forms and prostrate themselves before the apparatchiks just for enough to live on. So that you can keep them loyal by presenting yourselves as the party of the poor. Which needs as many poor as possible to keep getting elected. And needs them to know they are getting special hand-outs so that they can be scared off voting for another party by the threat that these hand-outs may be withdrawn. Labour makes me sick. [/quote] Well said Morag, I 100% agree with you that Labour institutionalises dependency in order to maintain a climate of fear that such "benefits" will be removed by other parties. It's a disgusting trick since for many low-income earners this is in fact just money that they have already earned ... but then need to go cap in hand and with bowed head to claw it back from the bureaucracy. I repeat. Disgusting. PS: It's [italic]almost[/italic] as good as your insightful Alexander piece 2 nights ago :-)))))[/quote] Morag,
Why not come out and say it: you are advocating cutting benefits for the people on benefits own good, of course.
I've heard this sleekit neo-Thatcherite line from some of the more feral nats before. Your language is as revolting as your predescessor Mrs Thatcher.
Please keep posting your objectionable slurs against the poorest in our society. The more people in this country understand the unpalatable truth about the truly reactionary nature of the SNP the better...
Vivas wrote:
Morag wrote: "There is a bonus here," said Glasgow South-West MP Ian Davidson. "The whole political debate has moved on to how we look after the poor. That's our territory and we can make much more progress on that ground this year and next."
Yeah, that is your territory, you smug, condescending trough-feeder. Make sure that as many people as possible have to beg for benefits in order to live, fill in complicated forms and prostrate themselves before the apparatchiks just for enough to live on. So that you can keep them loyal by presenting yourselves as the party of the poor. Which needs as many poor as possible to keep getting elected. And needs them to know they are getting special hand-outs so that they can be scared off voting for another party by the threat that these hand-outs may be withdrawn. Labour makes me sick.
Well said Morag, I 100% agree with you that Labour institutionalises dependency in order to maintain a climate of fear that such "benefits" will be removed by other parties. It's a disgusting trick since for many low-income earners this is in fact just money that they have already earned ... but then need to go cap in hand and with bowed head to claw it back from the bureaucracy. I repeat. Disgusting. PS: It's almost as good as your insightful Alexander piece 2 nights ago :-)))))
Morag,
Why not come out and say it: you are advocating cutting benefits for the people on benefits own good, of course.
I've heard this sleekit neo-Thatcherite line from some of the more feral nats before. Your language is as revolting as your predescessor Mrs Thatcher.
Please keep posting your objectionable slurs against the poorest in our society. The more people in this country understand the unpalatable truth about the truly reactionary nature of the SNP the better...
Posted by: SHANGHAI SCOT, SHANGHAI on 7:55am Wed 14 May 08
I intend to watch this sporting event along with many other expats, who represent many nations, and proud that a Scottish team is playing in the UEFA Cup.
This event will be screened in my local around 2AM in the morning, not looking forward to working tomorrow, but would not miss this event..
And to answer a question I do not follow any particular football team, I just enjoy watching what I hope will be an entertaining game of football
I intend to watch this sporting event along with many other expats, who represent many nations, and proud that a Scottish team is playing in the UEFA Cup.
This event will be screened in my local around 2AM in the morning, not looking forward to working tomorrow, but would not miss this event..
And to answer a question I do not follow any particular football team, I just enjoy watching what I hope will be an entertaining game of football
Posted by: Hamish McKropotkin, Bannockburn on 7:56am Wed 14 May 08
[quote][bold]Vivas[/bold] wrote:
[quote][bold]Morag[/bold] wrote: [quote]"There is a bonus here," said Glasgow South-West MP Ian Davidson. "The whole political debate has moved on to how we look after the poor. That's our territory and we can make much more progress on that ground this year and next."[/quote]Yeah, that [italic]is[/italic] your territory, you smug, condescending trough-feeder. Make sure that as many people as possible have to beg for benefits in order to live, fill in complicated forms and prostrate themselves before the apparatchiks just for enough to live on. So that you can keep them loyal by presenting yourselves as the party of the poor. Which needs as many poor as possible to keep getting elected. And needs them to know they are getting special hand-outs so that they can be scared off voting for another party by the threat that these hand-outs may be withdrawn. Labour makes me sick. [/quote] Well said Morag, I 100% agree with you that Labour institutionalises dependency in order to maintain a climate of fear that such "benefits" will be removed by other parties. It's a disgusting trick since for many low-income earners this is in fact just money that they have already earned ... but then need to go cap in hand and with bowed head to claw it back from the bureaucracy. I repeat. Disgusting. PS: It's [italic]almost[/italic] as good as your insightful Alexander piece 2 nights ago :-)))))[/quote] Quite right, Vivas - let the wastrels stand on their own two feet. That's what you are insinuating after all....
Vivas wrote:
Morag wrote: "There is a bonus here," said Glasgow South-West MP Ian Davidson. "The whole political debate has moved on to how we look after the poor. That's our territory and we can make much more progress on that ground this year and next."
Yeah, that is your territory, you smug, condescending trough-feeder. Make sure that as many people as possible have to beg for benefits in order to live, fill in complicated forms and prostrate themselves before the apparatchiks just for enough to live on. So that you can keep them loyal by presenting yourselves as the party of the poor. Which needs as many poor as possible to keep getting elected. And needs them to know they are getting special hand-outs so that they can be scared off voting for another party by the threat that these hand-outs may be withdrawn. Labour makes me sick.
Well said Morag, I 100% agree with you that Labour institutionalises dependency in order to maintain a climate of fear that such "benefits" will be removed by other parties. It's a disgusting trick since for many low-income earners this is in fact just money that they have already earned ... but then need to go cap in hand and with bowed head to claw it back from the bureaucracy. I repeat. Disgusting. PS: It's almost as good as your insightful Alexander piece 2 nights ago :-)))))
Quite right, Vivas - let the wastrels stand on their own two feet. That's what you are insinuating after all....
Posted by: pehman, sussex on 8:03am Wed 14 May 08
On the uuuendy story,
Didn't she say at the outset something about UNCERTAINTY and clearing it up or ending it ?
On the uuuendy story,
Didn't she say at the outset something about UNCERTAINTY and clearing it up or ending it ?
Posted by: David, Scotland land of EUFA Cup Winners! on 8:32am Wed 14 May 08
[bold]McKropotkin dear comrade I think what is being said,and like Wendy I wish to clear up the uncertainty, is that Labour rely on continuing poverty to stay in power . They therefore do little practically to alleviate poverty but sleight of hand and magic mirrors. The SNP strive to end poverty. ( Give a man a fish and hunger will abate for a day. TEACH a man to fish and you end his hunger)[/bold]
McKropotkin dear comrade I think what is being said,and like Wendy I wish to clear up the uncertainty, is that Labour rely on continuing poverty to stay in power . They therefore do little practically to alleviate poverty but sleight of hand and magic mirrors. The SNP strive to end poverty. ( Give a man a fish and hunger will abate for a day. TEACH a man to fish and you end his hunger) Posted by: awh, Dumfries on 8:33am Wed 14 May 08
Talk about fevered atmosphere. I like peacepuppy best. While on these pages he bleats about his part time work and income from investments and how much better off he will be with a LIT, presumably because his income from investments will not be taxed and his "hobby job" which no doubt pays for holidays will then be taxed less. Meanwhile younger working couples who have to work for a living are going to be paying for his tax cut. Yet he still finds time to berate the labour party for raising the living standards not just of the poor but also nice comfy middle earners like himself. Talk about hypocrisy and spin.....And yes there are still labour voters in Scotland and when they finally sort themselves out it will be great to welcome all of you half hearted souls back to the fold.
Talk about fevered atmosphere. I like peacepuppy best. While on these pages he bleats about his part time work and income from investments and how much better off he will be with a LIT, presumably because his income from investments will not be taxed and his "hobby job" which no doubt pays for holidays will then be taxed less. Meanwhile younger working couples who have to work for a living are going to be paying for his tax cut. Yet he still finds time to berate the labour party for raising the living standards not just of the poor but also nice comfy middle earners like himself. Talk about hypocrisy and spin.....And yes there are still labour voters in Scotland and when they finally sort themselves out it will be great to welcome all of you half hearted souls back to the fold.
Posted by: mt on 8:51am Wed 14 May 08
Hamish McKropotkin, Bannockburn on 7:16am today
"Morag,
Why not come out and say it: you are advocating cutting benefits for the people on benefits own good, of course."
I thought what she was meaning that the cost of taking £225 off a pensioner/low paid, by the 10p tax, giving them £120 back for one year only, having them fill out forms in the hope that they receive the balance in benefit, was a roundabout road for a short cut and an expensive one at that.
The cost of organising benefits will be more than the actual benefit itself so why not cut the red tape and simplify the system?
Hamish McKropotkin, Bannockburn on 7:16am today
"Morag,
Why not come out and say it: you are advocating cutting benefits for the people on benefits own good, of course."
I thought what she was meaning that the cost of taking £225 off a pensioner/low paid, by the 10p tax, giving them £120 back for one year only, having them fill out forms in the hope that they receive the balance in benefit, was a roundabout road for a short cut and an expensive one at that.
The cost of organising benefits will be more than the actual benefit itself so why not cut the red tape and simplify the system?
Posted by: Bruce, Ayrshire on 9:15am Wed 14 May 08
Hamish McKropotkin, Bannockburn
The only person I can see casting slurs is yourself. You know fine well what Morag meant and to then seek to portray her in the way you have done is pretty sickening. Just to try and make a cheap political score on your card.
It doesn't take a lot of brains to see why our taxation and benefit system is so complicated. It keeps people in dependency mode rather than free them up with their own money (and self esteem) in the first place. The personal allowance should be a lot higher for starters. Simplify everything, look after the real poor and give people their dignity. But that's too simple, it means you don't have millions of people looking for their money back and dependent on the whims of the ruling party to do it.
Labour bribe their way into power, you know it, Morag knows it, we all know it.
Hamish McKropotkin, Bannockburn
The only person I can see casting slurs is yourself. You know fine well what Morag meant and to then seek to portray her in the way you have done is pretty sickening. Just to try and make a cheap political score on your card.
It doesn't take a lot of brains to see why our taxation and benefit system is so complicated. It keeps people in dependency mode rather than free them up with their own money (and self esteem) in the first place. The personal allowance should be a lot higher for starters. Simplify everything, look after the real poor and give people their dignity. But that's too simple, it means you don't have millions of people looking for their money back and dependent on the whims of the ruling party to do it.
Labour bribe their way into power, you know it, Morag knows it, we all know it.
Posted by: GML, right here on 9:47am Wed 14 May 08
I loved that one about welcoming Labour voters 'back into the fold'.
What is it that gets herded into a fold again?
Scotland has a political centre of gravity to the left of England, for sure. I have a suggestion for AWH of Dumfries as to how Scotland can avoid the coming ten years plus of Old Etonian Tory government...actuall
y you know already...put your X next to "I AGREE"
Come on Rangers, do Scotland proud.
I loved that one about welcoming Labour voters 'back into the fold'.
What is it that gets herded into a fold again?
Scotland has a political centre of gravity to the left of England, for sure. I have a suggestion for AWH of Dumfries as to how Scotland can avoid the coming ten years plus of Old Etonian Tory government...actuall
y you know already...put your X next to "I AGREE"
Come on Rangers, do Scotland proud.
Posted by: Mike, Edinburgh on 10:04am Wed 14 May 08
Once more we get an example of Gordon Browns attitude to the Scottish People, and his now daily attack on the Scottish Nation. But dont worry, the Numpties will still spout their treason to the Scottish People.
[bold]Scotland Shame[/bold] :1.5 million Scots who try to work to support their families whilst on the minimum wage are to be kept in poverty, so that Gordon and his scum party can try to win some popularity in their beloved England.
[bold]Scotlands Shame:[/bold] Gordon Brown and the Slavour MSPs tip their forelock to their English Masters in London. Wendy will be sacrificed very soon.
[bold]Scotlands Shame:[/bold] Alistair Darling and Gordon Brown betray the Scottish People by giving us 10 billion a year pocketmoney, while our own Economy generates 76 billion.
[bold]Scotlands Shame:[/bold] Scotland has Europes highest levels of early mortality and poverty that was a deliberate policy by London Controlled Political Parties, to keep them submissive to their English Masters.
[bold]Scotlands Shame:[[/bold] 22 billion pounds of debt for the Scottish People, because New Labour wanted to sell away our lives by giving us debt that is a national disgrace. PPP/PFI anyone.
[bold]Scotland Shame:[/bold] It now looks certain that Wendy the crook will get away with more criminal acts of fraud. The attitude of the Strathclyde police service and the Electoral Commision brings realisation that WE THE PEOPLE OF SCOTLAND are not worth fighting for as far as the Unionist Parties are concerned.
[bold]Scotlands Shame:[/bold] Someone who was born in Scotland making threatening statements that he will do "WHATEVER IS NECASSARY TO STOP SCOTLAND RECLAIMING HER RIGHT AS A SOVEREIGN NATION WHO ENTERED A UNION, AND NOW WISH TO WITHDRAW DEMOCRATICALLY and PEACEFULLY"
AS WENDY WOULD SAY ONE MOMENT AND THEN COMPLETELY DO A U TURN> Bring it on Gordon Brown. We will make Alqueda and the IRA look like a kiddie party and you will be finished.[bold]bold[/bold]
Once more we get an example of Gordon Browns attitude to the Scottish People, and his now daily attack on the Scottish Nation. But dont worry, the Numpties will still spout their treason to the Scottish People.
Scotland Shame :1.5 million Scots who try to work to support their families whilst on the minimum wage are to be kept in poverty, so that Gordon and his scum party can try to win some popularity in their beloved England.
Scotlands Shame: Gordon Brown and the Slavour MSPs tip their forelock to their English Masters in London. Wendy will be sacrificed very soon.
Scotlands Shame: Alistair Darling and Gordon Brown betray the Scottish People by giving us 10 billion a year pocketmoney, while our own Economy generates 76 billion.
Scotlands Shame: Scotland has Europes highest levels of early mortality and poverty that was a deliberate policy by London Controlled Political Parties, to keep them submissive to their English Masters.
Scotlands Shame:[ 22 billion pounds of debt for the Scottish People, because New Labour wanted to sell away our lives by giving us debt that is a national disgrace. PPP/PFI anyone.
Scotland Shame: It now looks certain that Wendy the crook will get away with more criminal acts of fraud. The attitude of the Strathclyde police service and the Electoral Commision brings realisation that WE THE PEOPLE OF SCOTLAND are not worth fighting for as far as the Unionist Parties are concerned.
Scotlands Shame: Someone who was born in Scotland making threatening statements that he will do "WHATEVER IS NECASSARY TO STOP SCOTLAND RECLAIMING HER RIGHT AS A SOVEREIGN NATION WHO ENTERED A UNION, AND NOW WISH TO WITHDRAW DEMOCRATICALLY and PEACEFULLY"
AS WENDY WOULD SAY ONE MOMENT AND THEN COMPLETELY DO A U TURN> Bring it on Gordon Brown. We will make Alqueda and the IRA look like a kiddie party and you will be finished.
Posted by: megz, glasgow on 10:09am Wed 14 May 08
[quote]But as Ms Flint's gaffe demonstrated the next disaster could only be a few hours away.[/quote]
the daily express (thanks douglas) is reporting another of these gaffes with hazel blears brandishing a confidential e-mail (i'm starting to think they are doing it on purpose!)
[quote]Producers of the programme – provisionally entitled Junior PM – have promised the Prime Minister could become “more popular than Alan Sugar”.
A confidential email accidentally brandished by Communities Secretary Hazel Blears on her way into No 10 yesterday revealed that advisers are taking the idea seriously.
It claims the programme would aim for an Apprentice meets Maria/Strictly Come Dancing audience.
The BBC1 show’s aim would be to find a Junior PM to run the country for a day[/quote]
Not a good idea since any junior that wins might prove to be a better PM than him lol.
But as Ms Flint's gaffe demonstrated the next disaster could only be a few hours away.
the daily express (thanks douglas) is reporting another of these gaffes with hazel blears brandishing a confidential e-mail (i'm starting to think they are doing it on purpose!)
Producers of the programme – provisionally entitled Junior PM – have promised the Prime Minister could become “more popular than Alan Sugar”.
A confidential email accidentally brandished by Communities Secretary Hazel Blears on her way into No 10 yesterday revealed that advisers are taking the idea seriously.
It claims the programme would aim for an Apprentice meets Maria/Strictly Come Dancing audience.
The BBC1 show’s aim would be to find a Junior PM to run the country for a day
Not a good idea since any junior that wins might prove to be a better PM than him lol.
Posted by: megz, glasgow on 10:14am Wed 14 May 08
[quote]Leader of the Commons Harriet Harman also flashed “restricted” briefings on her way into Downing Street yesterday. The revelation that advisers are considering turning Mr Brown into the next Jade Goody-style Reality TV star prompted scorn at Westminster.[/quote]
seems they are all at it, death by a thousand paper cuts seems a bit long and drawn out.
Leader of the Commons Harriet Harman also flashed “restricted” briefings on her way into Downing Street yesterday. The revelation that advisers are considering turning Mr Brown into the next Jade Goody-style Reality TV star prompted scorn at Westminster.
seems they are all at it, death by a thousand paper cuts seems a bit long and drawn out.
Posted by: Rab Jones, Glasgow on 10:16am Wed 14 May 08
Nice to see Alex Salmond going to the Rangers match on a freebee, when there’s thousands of working class fans unbale to get a ticket. Don’t you think he’s had enough free lunches?
Isn’t it ironic that a man who wants Scottish Independence and wants to break away from the union, will be in a stadium full of Scots waving the Union Jack?
Nice to see Alex Salmond going to the Rangers match on a freebee, when there’s thousands of working class fans unbale to get a ticket. Don’t you think he’s had enough free lunches?
Isn’t it ironic that a man who wants Scottish Independence and wants to break away from the union, will be in a stadium full of Scots waving the Union Jack?
Posted by: Rab Jones, Glasgow on 10:20am Wed 14 May 08
Nice to see Alex Salmond going to the Rangers match on a freebee, when there’s thousands of working class fans unbale to get a ticket. Don’t you think he’s had enough free lunches?
Isn’t it ironic that a man who wants Scottish Independence and wants to break away from the union, will be in a stadium full of Scots waving the Union Jack?
Nice to see Alex Salmond going to the Rangers match on a freebee, when there’s thousands of working class fans unbale to get a ticket. Don’t you think he’s had enough free lunches?
Isn’t it ironic that a man who wants Scottish Independence and wants to break away from the union, will be in a stadium full of Scots waving the Union Jack?
Posted by: megz, glasgow on 10:24am Wed 14 May 08
[quote]Isn’t it ironic that a man who wants Scottish Independence and wants to break away from the union, will be in a stadium full of Scots waving the Union Jack?[/quote]
Yes well there is definately some irony there but to be fair to rangers fans you see more saltires at ibrox these days that you do at parkhead (and i say that as a celtic fan, i can't really fathom why alot of my fellow supporters, support irish independence but not scottish totally baffles me)
Isn’t it ironic that a man who wants Scottish Independence and wants to break away from the union, will be in a stadium full of Scots waving the Union Jack?
Yes well there is definately some irony there but to be fair to rangers fans you see more saltires at ibrox these days that you do at parkhead (and i say that as a celtic fan, i can't really fathom why alot of my fellow supporters, support irish independence but not scottish totally baffles me)
Posted by: Toophingers, Bellshill. on 10:29am Wed 14 May 08
[quote][bold]Hamish McKropotkin[/bold] wrote:
[quote][bold]allymax[/bold] wrote: Can't remember the headline, so, COME ON RANGERS ![/quote] Well said, any nats out there care to wish the British representatives in the UEFA Cup good luck tonight? Or does the sight of so many 'butcher's aprons' turn your stomachs? They are Scottish AND British after all.....[/quote] Hamish Mc[bold]KRAP[/bold] otkin
Hamish McKropotkin wrote:
allymax wrote: Can't remember the headline, so, COME ON RANGERS !
Well said, any nats out there care to wish the British representatives in the UEFA Cup good luck tonight? Or does the sight of so many 'butcher's aprons' turn your stomachs? They are Scottish AND British after all.....
Hamish Mc
KRAP otkin
Posted by: Toophingers, Bellshill. on 10:51am Wed 14 May 08
Brown and Darling dig themselves into another hole then expect the taxpayers to haul them out.
Enuff is enuff, as Two Jags Prescott would have said.
Brown and Darling dig themselves into another hole then expect the taxpayers to haul them out.
Enuff is enuff, as Two Jags Prescott would have said.
Posted by: megz, glasgow on 11:03am Wed 14 May 08
i have to say that this £120 better off is going to do heehaw for me as my electricity bill alone has jumped up by £324 per year.
i have to say that this £120 better off is going to do heehaw for me as my electricity bill alone has jumped up by £324 per year.
Posted by: Duns Scotus, The Borders on 11:16am Wed 14 May 08
[quote][bold]Hamish McKropotkin[/bold] wrote:
[quote][bold]allymax[/bold] wrote: Can't remember the headline, so, COME ON RANGERS ![/quote] Well said, any nats out there care to wish the British representatives in the UEFA Cup good luck tonight? Or does the sight of so many 'butcher's aprons' turn your stomachs? They are Scottish AND British after all.....[/quote] Jings! Crivvens! Help ma boab! You were posting as a one-trick "pony" from [bold]Vancouver Island, Canada last night[/bold] .
As for the Rangers fans who say they are Scottish and British, I say, "So what? Swedes are Swedes and Scandanavian. Portugeuse are Portugeuse and Iberian. Mexicans are Mexican and American."
I am Scottish and Pictish and will be cheering on the "Teddy Berrs".
Hamish McKropotkin wrote:
allymax wrote: Can't remember the headline, so, COME ON RANGERS !
Well said, any nats out there care to wish the British representatives in the UEFA Cup good luck tonight? Or does the sight of so many 'butcher's aprons' turn your stomachs? They are Scottish AND British after all.....
Jings! Crivvens! Help ma boab! You were posting as a one-trick "pony" from
Vancouver Island, Canada last night .
As for the Rangers fans who say they are Scottish and British, I say, "So what? Swedes are Swedes and Scandanavian. Portugeuse are Portugeuse and Iberian. Mexicans are Mexican and American."
I am Scottish and Pictish and will be cheering on the "Teddy Berrs".
Posted by: Morag, Peeblesshire on 11:18am Wed 14 May 08
[quote]Morag,
Why not come out and say it: you are advocating cutting benefits for the people on benefits own good, of course.[/quote]Don't twist my words, you little straw man.
I'm advocating a decent wage and a progressive tax system that allows the relatively low-paid to keep a decent percentage of their earnings. Forcing people in low-paid work to humble themselves to claim benefits in order to compensate for excessive taxation is not only bureaucratic nonsense, it's humiliating.
Labour does it in order to keep as many as possible in this "underclass", so that they can then maximise their vote when they present themselves as the champions of the underclass that they themselves have created.
Bruce and mt have also explained it perfectly well.
Morag,
Why not come out and say it: you are advocating cutting benefits for the people on benefits own good, of course.
Don't twist my words, you little straw man.
I'm advocating a decent wage and a progressive tax system that allows the relatively low-paid to keep a decent percentage of their earnings. Forcing people in low-paid work to humble themselves to claim benefits in order to compensate for excessive taxation is not only bureaucratic nonsense, it's humiliating.
Labour does it in order to keep as many as possible in this "underclass", so that they can then maximise their vote when they present themselves as the champions of the underclass that they themselves have created.
Bruce and mt have also explained it perfectly well.
Posted by: awh, Dumfries on 11:33am Wed 14 May 08
Duns as a good borderer and a man with an antiquarian bent you should know that the Picts never got south of the Forth, and that the Scots are proudly Irish. Twice an invader. And as all Scots know who had to share the subway with them Rangers fans are determinedly Scottish and British and Unionist. Come on Zenit
Duns as a good borderer and a man with an antiquarian bent you should know that the Picts never got south of the Forth, and that the Scots are proudly Irish. Twice an invader. And as all Scots know who had to share the subway with them Rangers fans are determinedly Scottish and British and Unionist. Come on Zenit
Posted by: Hamish McKropotkin, Bannockburn on 11:59am Wed 14 May 08
[quote][bold]Morag[/bold] wrote:
[quote]Morag, Why not come out and say it: you are advocating cutting benefits for the people on benefits own good, of course.[/quote]Don't twist my words, you little straw man. I'm advocating a decent wage and a progressive tax system that allows the relatively low-paid to keep a decent percentage of their earnings. Forcing people in low-paid work to humble themselves to claim benefits in order to compensate for excessive taxation is not only bureaucratic nonsense, it's humiliating. Labour does it in order to keep as many as possible in this "underclass", so that they can then maximise their vote when they present themselves as the champions of the underclass that they themselves have created. Bruce and mt have also explained it perfectly well. [/quote] Morag,
Pathetic. You're advocating that the poor somehow have only themselves to blame. Your reactionary nonsense may play well at the Inverstoorie branch of the Alba Libre League, in the real world you're exposed for what you are: a Thatcherite tartan Tory.
Morag wrote:
Morag, Why not come out and say it: you are advocating cutting benefits for the people on benefits own good, of course.
Don't twist my words, you little straw man. I'm advocating a decent wage and a progressive tax system that allows the relatively low-paid to keep a decent percentage of their earnings. Forcing people in low-paid work to humble themselves to claim benefits in order to compensate for excessive taxation is not only bureaucratic nonsense, it's humiliating. Labour does it in order to keep as many as possible in this "underclass", so that they can then maximise their vote when they present themselves as the champions of the underclass that they themselves have created. Bruce and mt have also explained it perfectly well.
Morag,
Pathetic. You're advocating that the poor somehow have only themselves to blame. Your reactionary nonsense may play well at the Inverstoorie branch of the Alba Libre League, in the real world you're exposed for what you are: a Thatcherite tartan Tory.
Posted by: megz, glasgow on 12:08pm Wed 14 May 08
[quote][bold]Hamish McKropotkin[/bold] wrote:
[quote][bold]Morag[/bold] wrote: [quote]Morag, Why not come out and say it: you are advocating cutting benefits for the people on benefits own good, of course.[/quote]Don't twist my words, you little straw man. I'm advocating a decent wage and a progressive tax system that allows the relatively low-paid to keep a decent percentage of their earnings. Forcing people in low-paid work to humble themselves to claim benefits in order to compensate for excessive taxation is not only bureaucratic nonsense, it's humiliating. Labour does it in order to keep as many as possible in this "underclass", so that they can then maximise their vote when they present themselves as the champions of the underclass that they themselves have created. Bruce and mt have also explained it perfectly well. [/quote] Morag, Pathetic. You're advocating that the poor somehow have only themselves to blame. Your reactionary nonsense may play well at the Inverstoorie branch of the Alba Libre League, in the real world you're exposed for what you are: a Thatcherite tartan Tory.[/quote] ok perhaps i'm reading it wrong but to me it seems morag is saying that labour are creating this underclass and proclaiming themselves to be their saviours so they will vote for them. Not that the poor are to blame.
Hamish McKropotkin wrote:
Morag wrote: Morag, Why not come out and say it: you are advocating cutting benefits for the people on benefits own good, of course.
Don't twist my words, you little straw man. I'm advocating a decent wage and a progressive tax system that allows the relatively low-paid to keep a decent percentage of their earnings. Forcing people in low-paid work to humble themselves to claim benefits in order to compensate for excessive taxation is not only bureaucratic nonsense, it's humiliating. Labour does it in order to keep as many as possible in this "underclass", so that they can then maximise their vote when they present themselves as the champions of the underclass that they themselves have created. Bruce and mt have also explained it perfectly well.
Morag, Pathetic. You're advocating that the poor somehow have only themselves to blame. Your reactionary nonsense may play well at the Inverstoorie branch of the Alba Libre League, in the real world you're exposed for what you are: a Thatcherite tartan Tory.
ok perhaps i'm reading it wrong but to me it seems morag is saying that labour are creating this underclass and proclaiming themselves to be their saviours so they will vote for them. Not that the poor are to blame.
Posted by: Hamish McKropotkin, Bannockburn on 12:48pm Wed 14 May 08
[quote][bold]megz[/bold] wrote:
[quote][bold]Hamish McKropotkin[/bold] wrote: [quote][bold]Morag[/bold] wrote: [quote]Morag, Why not come out and say it: you are advocating cutting benefits for the people on benefits own good, of course.[/quote]Don't twist my words, you little straw man. I'm advocating a decent wage and a progressive tax system that allows the relatively low-paid to keep a decent percentage of their earnings. Forcing people in low-paid work to humble themselves to claim benefits in order to compensate for excessive taxation is not only bureaucratic nonsense, it's humiliating. Labour does it in order to keep as many as possible in this "underclass", so that they can then maximise their vote when they present themselves as the champions of the underclass that they themselves have created. Bruce and mt have also explained it perfectly well. [/quote] Morag, Pathetic. You're advocating that the poor somehow have only themselves to blame. Your reactionary nonsense may play well at the Inverstoorie branch of the Alba Libre League, in the real world you're exposed for what you are: a Thatcherite tartan Tory.[/quote] ok perhaps i'm reading it wrong but to me it seems morag is saying that labour are creating this underclass and proclaiming themselves to be their saviours so they will vote for them. Not that the poor are to blame.[/quote] Megz,
What she is claiming is that welfare creates poverty a neo-conservative notion picked up by right wing SNP in a bid to have a kick at Labour. It is a repellant and snide position to take typical of a movement devoid of a political philosophy beyond bitter grievances and bigotry.
They will be resisted by all on the left.
Avanti!
megz wrote:
Hamish McKropotkin wrote: Morag wrote: Morag, Why not come out and say it: you are advocating cutting benefits for the people on benefits own good, of course.
Don't twist my words, you little straw man. I'm advocating a decent wage and a progressive tax system that allows the relatively low-paid to keep a decent percentage of their earnings. Forcing people in low-paid work to humble themselves to claim benefits in order to compensate for excessive taxation is not only bureaucratic nonsense, it's humiliating. Labour does it in order to keep as many as possible in this "underclass", so that they can then maximise their vote when they present themselves as the champions of the underclass that they themselves have created. Bruce and mt have also explained it perfectly well.
Morag, Pathetic. You're advocating that the poor somehow have only themselves to blame. Your reactionary nonsense may play well at the Inverstoorie branch of the Alba Libre League, in the real world you're exposed for what you are: a Thatcherite tartan Tory.
ok perhaps i'm reading it wrong but to me it seems morag is saying that labour are creating this underclass and proclaiming themselves to be their saviours so they will vote for them. Not that the poor are to blame.
Megz,
What she is claiming is that welfare creates poverty a neo-conservative notion picked up by right wing SNP in a bid to have a kick at Labour. It is a repellant and snide position to take typical of a movement devoid of a political philosophy beyond bitter grievances and bigotry.
They will be resisted by all on the left.
Avanti!
Posted by: Ronald, Glasgow on 1:22pm Wed 14 May 08
Hamish; One wonders whether you are suffering from "learning dificulties", or mearly obtuse?
It would be funny, were it not so repugnant, your pathetic attempts to
evoke "The Left" and Socialism" in relation to NEW-LABOUR. A
crypto-fascist entity which allied itself with NEO-CONSERVATIVES
in the United States to lauch the Iraq bloodbath. One million,
Two Hundred Thousand civillians dead and counting.........
You must be very proud, Hamish? Now sod off you repulsive cretin!
Hamish; One wonders whether you are suffering from "learning dificulties", or mearly obtuse?
It would be funny, were it not so repugnant, your pathetic attempts to
evoke "The Left" and Socialism" in relation to NEW-LABOUR. A
crypto-fascist entity which allied itself with NEO-CONSERVATIVES
in the United States to lauch the Iraq bloodbath. One million,
Two Hundred Thousand civillians dead and counting.........
You must be very proud, Hamish? Now sod off you repulsive cretin!
Posted by: Mike MacKinnon on 1:27pm Wed 14 May 08
[quote][bold]Hamish McKropotkin[/bold] wrote:
[quote][bold]megz[/bold] wrote: [quote][bold]Hamish McKropotkin[/bold] wrote: [quote][bold]Morag[/bold] wrote: [quote]Morag, Why not come out and say it: you are advocating cutting benefits for the people on benefits own good, of course.[/quote]Don't twist my words, you little straw man. I'm advocating a decent wage and a progressive tax system that allows the relatively low-paid to keep a decent percentage of their earnings. Forcing people in low-paid work to humble themselves to claim benefits in order to compensate for excessive taxation is not only bureaucratic nonsense, it's humiliating. Labour does it in order to keep as many as possible in this "underclass", so that they can then maximise their vote when they present themselves as the champions of the underclass that they themselves have created. Bruce and mt have also explained it perfectly well. [/quote] Morag, Pathetic. You're advocating that the poor somehow have only themselves to blame. Your reactionary nonsense may play well at the Inverstoorie branch of the Alba Libre League, in the real world you're exposed for what you are: a Thatcherite tartan Tory.[/quote] ok perhaps i'm reading it wrong but to me it seems morag is saying that labour are creating this underclass and proclaiming themselves to be their saviours so they will vote for them. Not that the poor are to blame.[/quote] Megz, What she is claiming is that welfare creates poverty a neo-conservative notion picked up by right wing SNP in a bid to have a kick at Labour. It is a repellant and snide position to take typical of a movement devoid of a political philosophy beyond bitter grievances and bigotry. They will be resisted by all on the left. Avanti![/quote] Megz, you're right. This little right wing, Thatcherite whinger, who has the nerve to use a name that paraphrases Kropotkin, is nothing but a would be socialist bully!
Let me tell you something, this is typical Liebour newspeak! Blame everyone and spread lies about them, but never, ever, accept the blame!
Labour as a socilaist party is defunct! It has ceased to be. There are still some maggots on the carcass but they will soon disappear. They and their supporters are yeaterday's people who CAN'T STAND the thought of the Scottish People actually having a say in their own government. They are petty, small minded Stalinist maggots!
Let's look towards a Scottish Socialist republic. But let's not pretend that Liebour will have anything to do with it!
Hamish McKropotkin wrote:
megz wrote: Hamish McKropotkin wrote: Morag wrote: Morag, Why not come out and say it: you are advocating cutting benefits for the people on benefits own good, of course.
Don't twist my words, you little straw man. I'm advocating a decent wage and a progressive tax system that allows the relatively low-paid to keep a decent percentage of their earnings. Forcing people in low-paid work to humble themselves to claim benefits in order to compensate for excessive taxation is not only bureaucratic nonsense, it's humiliating. Labour does it in order to keep as many as possible in this "underclass", so that they can then maximise their vote when they present themselves as the champions of the underclass that they themselves have created. Bruce and mt have also explained it perfectly well.
Morag, Pathetic. You're advocating that the poor somehow have only themselves to blame. Your reactionary nonsense may play well at the Inverstoorie branch of the Alba Libre League, in the real world you're exposed for what you are: a Thatcherite tartan Tory.
ok perhaps i'm reading it wrong but to me it seems morag is saying that labour are creating this underclass and proclaiming themselves to be their saviours so they will vote for them. Not that the poor are to blame.
Megz, What she is claiming is that welfare creates poverty a neo-conservative notion picked up by right wing SNP in a bid to have a kick at Labour. It is a repellant and snide position to take typical of a movement devoid of a political philosophy beyond bitter grievances and bigotry. They will be resisted by all on the left. Avanti!
Megz, you're right. This little right wing, Thatcherite whinger, who has the nerve to use a name that paraphrases Kropotkin, is nothing but a would be socialist bully!
Let me tell you something, this is typical Liebour newspeak! Blame everyone and spread lies about them, but never, ever, accept the blame!
Labour as a socilaist party is defunct! It has ceased to be. There are still some maggots on the carcass but they will soon disappear. They and their supporters are yeaterday's people who CAN'T STAND the thought of the Scottish People actually having a say in their own government. They are petty, small minded Stalinist maggots!
Let's look towards a Scottish Socialist republic. But let's not pretend that Liebour will have anything to do with it!
Posted by: Hamish McKropotkin, Bannockburn on 1:32pm Wed 14 May 08
[quote][bold]Ronald[/bold] wrote:
Hamish; One wonders whether you are suffering from "learning dificulties", or mearly obtuse? It would be funny, were it not so repugnant, your pathetic attempts to evoke "The Left" and Socialism" in relation to NEW-LABOUR. A crypto-fascist entity which allied itself with NEO-CONSERVATIVES in the United States to lauch the Iraq bloodbath. One million, Two Hundred Thousand civillians dead and counting......... You must be very proud, Hamish? Now sod off you repulsive cretin! [/quote] Ronald,
I don't evoke socialism with Labour new or otherwise I'm not a Labour supporter or apologist. It is interesting however, that whenever the nats find themselves on the back foot they think nothing of using the tragedy of Iraq to score some squalid pathetic little point. Good to see you're using all those deaths and all that suffering to promote your own political dogma. You're a classy guy. As is every other opportunistic nationalist who almost unbelievably doesn't see the irony of a nationalist (yes a nationalist!) calling anybody else a fascist!
You couldn't make it up.....
Ronald wrote:
Hamish; One wonders whether you are suffering from "learning dificulties", or mearly obtuse? It would be funny, were it not so repugnant, your pathetic attempts to evoke "The Left" and Socialism" in relation to NEW-LABOUR. A crypto-fascist entity which allied itself with NEO-CONSERVATIVES in the United States to lauch the Iraq bloodbath. One million, Two Hundred Thousand civillians dead and counting......... You must be very proud, Hamish? Now sod off you repulsive cretin!
Ronald,
I don't evoke socialism with Labour new or otherwise I'm not a Labour supporter or apologist. It is interesting however, that whenever the nats find themselves on the back foot they think nothing of using the tragedy of Iraq to score some squalid pathetic little point. Good to see you're using all those deaths and all that suffering to promote your own political dogma. You're a classy guy. As is every other opportunistic nationalist who almost unbelievably doesn't see the irony of a nationalist (yes a nationalist!) calling anybody else a fascist!
You couldn't make it up.....
Posted by: awh, Dumfries on 1:35pm Wed 14 May 08
I see the wicked labour govt has helped more people back in to work in the last three months scottish unemployment is now down to 124,000. After all it is the labour party after all.
I see the wicked labour govt has helped more people back in to work in the last three months scottish unemployment is now down to 124,000. After all it is the labour party after all.
Posted by: The X Factor, Glasgow on 1:35pm Wed 14 May 08
[quote][bold]Mike MacKinnon[/bold] wrote:
[quote][bold]Hamish McKropotkin[/bold] wrote: [quote][bold]megz[/bold] wrote: [quote][bold]Hamish McKropotkin[/bold] wrote: [quote][bold]Morag[/bold] wrote: [quote]Morag, Why not come out and say it: you are advocating cutting benefits for the people on benefits own good, of course.[/quote]Don't twist my words, you little straw man. I'm advocating a decent wage and a progressive tax system that allows the relatively low-paid to keep a decent percentage of their earnings. Forcing people in low-paid work to humble themselves to claim benefits in order to compensate for excessive taxation is not only bureaucratic nonsense, it's humiliating. Labour does it in order to keep as many as possible in this "underclass", so that they can then maximise their vote when they present themselves as the champions of the underclass that they themselves have created. Bruce and mt have also explained it perfectly well. [/quote] Morag, Pathetic. You're advocating that the poor somehow have only themselves to blame. Your reactionary nonsense may play well at the Inverstoorie branch of the Alba Libre League, in the real world you're exposed for what you are: a Thatcherite tartan Tory.[/quote] ok perhaps i'm reading it wrong but to me it seems morag is saying that labour are creating this underclass and proclaiming themselves to be their saviours so they will vote for them. Not that the poor are to blame.[/quote] Megz, What she is claiming is that welfare creates poverty a neo-conservative notion picked up by right wing SNP in a bid to have a kick at Labour. It is a repellant and snide position to take typical of a movement devoid of a political philosophy beyond bitter grievances and bigotry. They will be resisted by all on the left. Avanti![/quote] Megz, you're right. This little right wing, Thatcherite whinger, who has the nerve to use a name that paraphrases Kropotkin, is nothing but a would be socialist bully! Let me tell you something, this is typical Liebour newspeak! Blame everyone and spread lies about them, but never, ever, accept the blame! Labour as a socilaist party is defunct! It has ceased to be. There are still some maggots on the carcass but they will soon disappear. They and their supporters are yeaterday's people who CAN'T STAND the thought of the Scottish People actually having a say in their own government. They are petty, small minded Stalinist maggots! Let's look towards a Scottish Socialist republic. But let's not pretend that Liebour will have anything to do with it![/quote] nothing much to say except I fancied seeing all these boxes within boxes on the screen.
oh, and a plague on all their houses.
anyone wanna qote this and further so we can see just how many boxes are possible?
Mike MacKinnon wrote:
Hamish McKropotkin wrote: megz wrote: Hamish McKropotkin wrote: Morag wrote: Morag, Why not come out and say it: you are advocating cutting benefits for the people on benefits own good, of course.
Don't twist my words, you little straw man. I'm advocating a decent wage and a progressive tax system that allows the relatively low-paid to keep a decent percentage of their earnings. Forcing people in low-paid work to humble themselves to claim benefits in order to compensate for excessive taxation is not only bureaucratic nonsense, it's humiliating. Labour does it in order to keep as many as possible in this "underclass", so that they can then maximise their vote when they present themselves as the champions of the underclass that they themselves have created. Bruce and mt have also explained it perfectly well.
Morag, Pathetic. You're advocating that the poor somehow have only themselves to blame. Your reactionary nonsense may play well at the Inverstoorie branch of the Alba Libre League, in the real world you're exposed for what you are: a Thatcherite tartan Tory.
ok perhaps i'm reading it wrong but to me it seems morag is saying that labour are creating this underclass and proclaiming themselves to be their saviours so they will vote for them. Not that the poor are to blame.
Megz, What she is claiming is that welfare creates poverty a neo-conservative notion picked up by right wing SNP in a bid to have a kick at Labour. It is a repellant and snide position to take typical of a movement devoid of a political philosophy beyond bitter grievances and bigotry. They will be resisted by all on the left. Avanti!
Megz, you're right. This little right wing, Thatcherite whinger, who has the nerve to use a name that paraphrases Kropotkin, is nothing but a would be socialist bully! Let me tell you something, this is typical Liebour newspeak! Blame everyone and spread lies about them, but never, ever, accept the blame! Labour as a socilaist party is defunct! It has ceased to be. There are still some maggots on the carcass but they will soon disappear. They and their supporters are yeaterday's people who CAN'T STAND the thought of the Scottish People actually having a say in their own government. They are petty, small minded Stalinist maggots! Let's look towards a Scottish Socialist republic. But let's not pretend that Liebour will have anything to do with it!
nothing much to say except I fancied seeing all these boxes within boxes on the screen.
oh, and a plague on all their houses.
anyone wanna qote this and further so we can see just how many boxes
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