Brown allies accuse critics of 'putting knife' into PM
Allies of Gordon Brown today accused his critics of "putting the knife into" the Prime Minister, as a senior Labour MP predicted he would be ditched as the party's leader before the next election.
Former minister Frank Field, who has led the backbench revolt over the abolition of the 10p income tax rate, said he would be "very surprised" if Mr Brown was still in charge at the time of the General Election, expected in 2010.
The PM faces a backbench rebellion which will block the Budget and make his position "intolerable" unless he reassures MPs over the impact of the tax change on the lowest paid, said Mr Field.
The Birkenhead MP said the next election would almost certainly be at the latest possible opportunity, in two years' time.
"I would be very surprised if he's still the leader of the Labour Party then and therefore leading us into the election campaign," he told the BBC World Service.
Mr Field said the removal of the 10p rate, announced by Mr Brown in his last Budget as Chancellor in 2007 but coming into effect in this year's Finance Bill, had caused greater anger on the Labour backbenches than he had ever previously seen.
"If we don't get a satisfactory deal, I think there's enough members on the Labour backbenches who will, with others, block the Budget going through," he said.
"That will make his position intolerable at that stage."
His comments, following a welter of personal criticism of Mr Brown over the weekend, prompted Health Secretary Alan Johnson to acknowledge the "knives (are) coming out".
| I would be very surprised if he's still the leader of the Labour Party then | | Frank Field |
|
The exchange comes as Mr Brown tries to stage a fightback after damaging disclosures in the memoirs of Cherie Blair, John Prescott and Tony Blair's former fundraiser, Lord Levy.
Mr Johnson voiced frustration that the political agenda was being dominated by the "character assassination" of the Prime Minister.
"What the public are concerned about is now, all these knives coming out," he told BBC Radio 4's Today programme.
"I'm not a great Brown fan club leader but I respect him as a really, really decent, good, able politician. Is he perfect? No, he's not, nor is anybody else in the world.
"But can't we just set this true confessions stuff to one side?
"Some people see an opportunity to put the knife into somebody they don't like."
Mr Field said he needed no persuading that the Prime Minister could be "testy" and "go off like a bloody volcano", as described by Mr Prescott.
The former welfare reform minister described "tempers of indescribable nature" in which Mr Brown would shout "in a rage".
But Mr Field said people would not judge the PM on the memoirs that were now being published but on the way Mr Brown currently appeared to the public.
"The awful fact that's coming across is that he's so unhappy in himself," he said.
"I think everybody in the country who's watched a news clip with the Prime Minister on recognises that."
He said it was a "tragedy" given Mr Brown's lifelong ambition to reach Number 10.
"Somebody whose real aim in life was to be prime minister, now has the task and seems to be so lacking in enjoyment in trying to carry it out," he went on.
Mr Brown was trying to reclaim the political initiative this week, setting out his draft Queen's Speech programme for the autumn with promises of new measures on schools and health.
It followed another round of disclosures about his turbulent relationship with Tony Blair in the form of Mr Prescott's autobiography, serialised in The Sunday Times.
The former deputy prime minister described Mr Brown as a "frustrating, annoying, bewildering and prickly" man who could "go off like a bloody volcano".
He disclosed that he had at various times urged Mr Blair to sack him as Chancellor and suggested to Mr Brown that he should quit so he could fight Mr Blair from the backbenches.
Mr Prescott's account came hard on the heels of the disclosure by Mr Blair's wife, Cherie, in her autobiography that Mr Blair would have stood down before the 2005 General Election if Mr Brown had been prepared to back his plans for city academies and foundation hospitals.
Meanwhile, another recent autobiographer, former Labour fundraiser Lord Levy, repeated his claim that Mr Brown must have known about the secret loans from wealthy party backers which led to the "cash for honours" police inquiry.
Aides dismissed the allegation as "complete, unsubstantiated garbage". Mr Brown has always insisted that as Chancellor he was careful to distance himself from party funding matters.
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Posted by: Duns Scotus, The Borders on 11:25am Mon 12 May 08
This is the classic case of "Beware of trampling on people on your way up, for you will meet them on the way down."
This is the classic case of "Beware of trampling on people on your way up, for you will meet them on the way down."
Posted by: Wullie, Aberdeen on 11:31am Mon 12 May 08
''Brown allies accuse critics of 'putting knife' into PM''
What goes around comes around
''Brown allies accuse critics of 'putting knife' into PM''
What goes around comes around
Posted by: Wullie, Aberdeen on 11:37am Mon 12 May 08
'The former deputy prime minister described Mr Brown as a "frustrating, annoying, bewildering and prickly" man who could "go off like a bloody volcano".
More like a wee bairn who cant get his own way, has a tantrum, then sulks.
'The former deputy prime minister described Mr Brown as a "frustrating, annoying, bewildering and prickly" man who could "go off like a bloody volcano".
More like a wee bairn who cant get his own way, has a tantrum, then sulks.
Posted by: David Alexander, Affshore on 11:37am Mon 12 May 08
[quote]"The awful fact that's coming across is that he's so unhappy in himself," he said.[/quote]
No, get this straight, you gormless man, the awful fact is that a million or so people are lying dead in Iraq; a country irrevocably damaged by the 'war' that Brown financed using our money and against our wishes.
At home, this rumbling volcano has squandered billions of pounds of taxpayers money while the poor get poorer and the rich get immeasurably richer, while all the while his party rifle the till.
Make no mistake, this 10% tax rebellion is nothing to do with concern for the poor; these Labour MPs cheered to the rafters when this was announced.
This is all to do with the fact that the mother of all chickens is coming home to roost and these 'socialists' are going to be turfed out on their well padded backsides.
"The awful fact that's coming across is that he's so unhappy in himself," he said.
No, get this straight, you gormless man, the awful fact is that a million or so people are lying dead in Iraq; a country irrevocably damaged by the 'war' that Brown financed using our money and against our wishes.
At home, this rumbling volcano has squandered billions of pounds of taxpayers money while the poor get poorer and the rich get immeasurably richer, while all the while his party rifle the till.
Make no mistake, this 10% tax rebellion is nothing to do with concern for the poor; these Labour MPs cheered to the rafters when this was announced.
This is all to do with the fact that the mother of all chickens is coming home to roost and these 'socialists' are going to be turfed out on their well padded backsides.
Posted by: preddo53, leeds on 11:44am Mon 12 May 08
I t makes no difference who they replace Broooooooooon with, they still won't get elected.
I t makes no difference who they replace Broooooooooon with, they still won't get elected.
Posted by: Mac, Dundee on 11:58am Mon 12 May 08
What we are witnessing is the beginning of an English purge of Scottish MPs within the Labour leadership.
A Scottish MP will never, ever attain high office at Westminster again. I doubt that any future UK cabinet will have a Scot in attendance.
The English are reclaiming the Westminster parliament as their own, and Scots, as foreigners, will not be made welcome.
What we are witnessing is the beginning of an English purge of Scottish MPs within the Labour leadership.
A Scottish MP will never, ever attain high office at Westminster again. I doubt that any future UK cabinet will have a Scot in attendance.
The English are reclaiming the Westminster parliament as their own, and Scots, as foreigners, will not be made welcome.
Posted by: preddo53, leeds on 12:10pm Mon 12 May 08
[quote][bold]Mac[/bold] wrote:
What we are witnessing is the beginning of an English purge of Scottish MPs within the Labour leadership. A Scottish MP will never, ever attain high office at Westminster again. I doubt that any future UK cabinet will have a Scot in attendance. The English are reclaiming the Westminster parliament as their own, and Scots, as foreigners, will not be made welcome.[/quote] You could well be right, but we all know down here these people are not typical Scots, The Scots I know are mostly decent, honest people. I really don't know where you dug this shower up from.
Mac wrote:
What we are witnessing is the beginning of an English purge of Scottish MPs within the Labour leadership. A Scottish MP will never, ever attain high office at Westminster again. I doubt that any future UK cabinet will have a Scot in attendance. The English are reclaiming the Westminster parliament as their own, and Scots, as foreigners, will not be made welcome.
You could well be right, but we all know down here these people are not typical Scots, The Scots I know are mostly decent, honest people. I really don't know where you dug this shower up from.
Posted by: scappaflow, RoS on 12:15pm Mon 12 May 08
Brown should have an election asap (possibly this autumn). If he waits things will only get worse.
The Tories do have a long way to go in terms of actually winning seats from Labour in order to get a majority. There is also still a question mark over what Cameron stands for etc which will be exposed in a campaign.
Perhaps damage limitation would make Westminster a hung parliament and allow Brown to continue as leader.
But the longer he waits, the greater the chance of Labour anihalation.
Of course he won't do this. He'll trundle on, clinging onto power that he scarcely has and a reputation that is withering with every TV interview, every broadsheet editorial and every 'Labour MP' comments that appear in the media. Hoping that something will be just around the corner.
But in 2010, the only thing that would stop a Tory victory is an implosion from them which at the moment seems unlikely. The next election result is out of Broon's hands, but damage will be greater the more time goes on.
Brown should have an election asap (possibly this autumn). If he waits things will only get worse.
The Tories do have a long way to go in terms of actually winning seats from Labour in order to get a majority. There is also still a question mark over what Cameron stands for etc which will be exposed in a campaign.
Perhaps damage limitation would make Westminster a hung parliament and allow Brown to continue as leader.
But the longer he waits, the greater the chance of Labour anihalation.
Of course he won't do this. He'll trundle on, clinging onto power that he scarcely has and a reputation that is withering with every TV interview, every broadsheet editorial and every 'Labour MP' comments that appear in the media. Hoping that something will be just around the corner.
But in 2010, the only thing that would stop a Tory victory is an implosion from them which at the moment seems unlikely. The next election result is out of Broon's hands, but damage will be greater the more time goes on.
Posted by: Ronald, Glasgow on 12:43pm Mon 12 May 08
But of course the biggest story of the day - which this filthy rag
shy's away from, of course, is the "revalation" by Lord "Cashpoint"
Levy, that Brown knew all along about about the ilegal donations to THE NEW-LABOUR PARTY :"Its inconcievable that Gordon was unaware of the donations to the Party!"
But of course the biggest story of the day - which this filthy rag
shy's away from, of course, is the "revalation" by Lord "Cashpoint"
Levy, that Brown knew all along about about the ilegal donations to THE NEW-LABOUR PARTY :"Its inconcievable that Gordon was unaware of the donations to the Party!"
Posted by: Rab Jones, Glasgow on 12:44pm Mon 12 May 08
That's it now, everyone (including the media) have got it in for him. He's finished.
He will probably walk, and go down as the worst Brit Prime Minister in history.
Let's hope that Labour doesn't replace him with someone who is charismactic who may save LAbours ar$e. Who is there?
That's it now, everyone (including the media) have got it in for him. He's finished.
He will probably walk, and go down as the worst Brit Prime Minister in history.
Let's hope that Labour doesn't replace him with someone who is charismactic who may save LAbours ar$e. Who is there?
Posted by: talorthane on 1:13pm Mon 12 May 08
[quote][bold]Mac[/bold] wrote:
What we are witnessing is the beginning of an English purge of Scottish MPs within the Labour leadership. A Scottish MP will never, ever attain high office at Westminster again. I doubt that any future UK cabinet will have a Scot in attendance. The English are reclaiming the Westminster parliament as their own, and Scots, as foreigners, will not be made welcome.[/quote] Mac
I think you're right in the middle and long term.
However, the short term may be different. It seems that Labour are acutely anxious of what would happen to the Labour vote in Scotland if Gordon Brown is removed.
I think it is becoming clear, as you say, that there will never again be a Scottish Prime Minister of the UK, despite unionist claims that this is one of the benefits of the union. The English media's perception of Scottish subsidies through the Scottish Parliament will persist as long as Holyrood exists.
I think Labour also, rightly, calculate that there are a great number of Labour voters loyally hanging on because of the fact that Gordon Brown is the PM. Many of these voters will have waited patiently thoughout the last 11 years for their Gordon to get his chance. Many of them will stick with him, but not necessary the party.
However, whenever Gordon Brown is removed from office they may then conclude that they gave him his chance and it's time for them to move on, and then vote in accordance with whichever party represents them best.
At that point, there may well be another surge in support for the SNP.
Mac wrote:
What we are witnessing is the beginning of an English purge of Scottish MPs within the Labour leadership. A Scottish MP will never, ever attain high office at Westminster again. I doubt that any future UK cabinet will have a Scot in attendance. The English are reclaiming the Westminster parliament as their own, and Scots, as foreigners, will not be made welcome.
Mac
I think you're right in the middle and long term.
However, the short term may be different. It seems that Labour are acutely anxious of what would happen to the Labour vote in Scotland if Gordon Brown is removed.
I think it is becoming clear, as you say, that there will never again be a Scottish Prime Minister of the UK, despite unionist claims that this is one of the benefits of the union. The English media's perception of Scottish subsidies through the Scottish Parliament will persist as long as Holyrood exists.
I think Labour also, rightly, calculate that there are a great number of Labour voters loyally hanging on because of the fact that Gordon Brown is the PM. Many of these voters will have waited patiently thoughout the last 11 years for their Gordon to get his chance. Many of them will stick with him, but not necessary the party.
However, whenever Gordon Brown is removed from office they may then conclude that they gave him his chance and it's time for them to move on, and then vote in accordance with whichever party represents them best.
At that point, there may well be another surge in support for the SNP.
Posted by: Douglas Walker, Glasgow on 1:35pm Mon 12 May 08
Well done the labour MPs. This matter will be recognised as the point at which the Union broke.
The Labour party is destroying its electoral chances and giving Westminster to the Conservatives.
Scotland has not yet forgiven the Conservatives, unlike England, and, so, wil vote SNP.
Result - cheerio Engerland, massive drop in oil revenue to Westminster used to subsidise English electorate, military resources?, nuclear arsenal?, power generation?, railways?
Well done Labour, you little minded idiots.
Well done the labour MPs. This matter will be recognised as the point at which the Union broke.
The Labour party is destroying its electoral chances and giving Westminster to the Conservatives.
Scotland has not yet forgiven the Conservatives, unlike England, and, so, wil vote SNP.
Result - cheerio Engerland, massive drop in oil revenue to Westminster used to subsidise English electorate, military resources?, nuclear arsenal?, power generation?, railways?
Well done Labour, you little minded idiots.
Posted by: GML, right here on 3:03pm Mon 12 May 08
I think ending the union will benefit England too. They will have to cut their coat acording to their cloth (which won't be oilskin - [italic]boom, boom[/italic] ), but that will do them nothing but good.
In my opinion England is a country looking for itself, rather like Scotland in the 1970s, which partly explains the enormous quasi-political significance placed on the England football team, rather like Scotland in the 1970s. (I'm not kidding - the hounding of Glenn Hoddle over his new age religious views cannot be explained as anything whatsoever to do with football.)
They are also suffering from some kind of free-floating anger of dispossession, rather like Scotland in the 1970s. (All those anti-EU nutters and conspiracy theorists). It will be an unequivocal good for England to start feeling good about England and Englishness, rather than angry.
However, what a couple of posters mentioned above is spot on. Gordon Brown was the first ever Scot to become prime minister of the UK representing a Scottish constituency, and he will be the last. No party in contention in England will pick a Scot as leader ever again.
I think ending the union will benefit England too. They will have to cut their coat acording to their cloth (which won't be oilskin -
boom, boom ), but that will do them nothing but good.
In my opinion England is a country looking for itself, rather like Scotland in the 1970s, which partly explains the enormous quasi-political significance placed on the England football team, rather like Scotland in the 1970s. (I'm not kidding - the hounding of Glenn Hoddle over his new age religious views cannot be explained as anything whatsoever to do with football.)
They are also suffering from some kind of free-floating anger of dispossession, rather like Scotland in the 1970s. (All those anti-EU nutters and conspiracy theorists). It will be an unequivocal good for England to start feeling good about England and Englishness, rather than angry.
However, what a couple of posters mentioned above is spot on. Gordon Brown was the first ever Scot to become prime minister of the UK representing a Scottish constituency, and he will be the last. No party in contention in England will pick a Scot as leader ever again.
Posted by: Watson, Irvine on 4:03pm Mon 12 May 08
Labour do not have the funds to fight an election and I doubt if they have any backers willing to pay up. They will hang on as they are as who would employ most of them?
Labour do not have the funds to fight an election and I doubt if they have any backers willing to pay up. They will hang on as they are as who would employ most of them?
Posted by: Stephen, Glasgow on 4:27pm Mon 12 May 08
Brown's problems arise from his belief that it was his god given right to become Prime Minister after Tony Blair. All we heard for the last 10 years was about the Blair-Brown deal for him to take over after Blair stood down- no mention of the people deciding who they want to be Prime Minister. His failure to call an election last Autumn showed he is not interested in seeking a democratic mandate for his Premiership.
Brown's problems arise from his belief that it was his god given right to become Prime Minister after Tony Blair. All we heard for the last 10 years was about the Blair-Brown deal for him to take over after Blair stood down- no mention of the people deciding who they want to be Prime Minister. His failure to call an election last Autumn showed he is not interested in seeking a democratic mandate for his Premiership.
Posted by: Jock in the Box, Edinburgh on 4:33pm Mon 12 May 08
[bold]Douglas Walker, Glasgow on 1:35pm[/bold]
[quote]Scotland has not yet forgiven the Conservatives, unlike England, and, so, will vote SNP.[/quote]
Perhaps but we should above everything else remember or in some cases at long last realise that we elected four consecutive Tory governments in Scotland including Thatcher,because we listened to people saying Labour can win.
Are you saying that Scotland and Strathclyde in particular has finally understood this?
That is the key to Scotland's future.Glasgow comes out of its one party status mentality and chooses that which [bold]WILL WORK,the SNP [/bold] and stops this nonsense ad infinitum of Vote Labour and get Tory governments which you [bold]DO NOT WANT IN
SCOTLAND[/bold]
Unless we particularly like the odds that you will get on three legged horses then we DARE NOT VOTE LABOUR until after Independence.
Even then its debatable looking at Puddles crew!
Douglas Walker, Glasgow on 1:35pm
Scotland has not yet forgiven the Conservatives, unlike England, and, so, will vote SNP.
Perhaps but we should above everything else remember or in some cases at long last realise that we elected four consecutive Tory governments in Scotland including Thatcher,because we listened to people saying Labour can win.
Are you saying that Scotland and Strathclyde in particular has finally understood this?
That is the key to Scotland's future.Glasgow comes out of its one party status mentality and chooses that which
WILL WORK,the SNP and stops this nonsense ad infinitum of Vote Labour and get Tory governments which you
DO NOT WANT IN
SCOTLAND
Unless we particularly like the odds that you will get on three legged horses then we DARE NOT VOTE LABOUR until after Independence.
Even then its debatable looking at Puddles crew!
Posted by: art1000, Dunfermline on 4:36pm Mon 12 May 08
Frank Field is already preparing the ground for a Broon resignation through ill health and for the sake of his family. A new leader I think will set about a purge of the jocks in cabinet - wee dougie, broone etc as they seek to rebuild their support in England. It may be that the the firebrand britishness of Broon may die out too perhaps initiating a new policy towards Scotland.
The Scots will not take to kindly to some hectoring Rodney, or cockney ex postman telling us we are too poor, too stupid etc and I think they know that. However that policy will be just as austere as Broon's as they will want to appear tough on the Scots for domestic audience. They might find it even more difficult to hold Scotland in line. In truth they are damned if they send Broon to the padded cell or damned if they do not.
Frank Field is already preparing the ground for a Broon resignation through ill health and for the sake of his family. A new leader I think will set about a purge of the jocks in cabinet - wee dougie, broone etc as they seek to rebuild their support in England. It may be that the the firebrand britishness of Broon may die out too perhaps initiating a new policy towards Scotland.
The Scots will not take to kindly to some hectoring Rodney, or cockney ex postman telling us we are too poor, too stupid etc and I think they know that. However that policy will be just as austere as Broon's as they will want to appear tough on the Scots for domestic audience. They might find it even more difficult to hold Scotland in line. In truth they are damned if they send Broon to the padded cell or damned if they do not.
Posted by: Free Thinker, North Lanarksh!te on 4:59pm Mon 12 May 08
[quote][bold]Stephen[/bold] wrote:
Brown's problems arise from his belief that it was his god given right to become Prime Minister after Tony Blair. All we heard for the last 10 years was about the Blair-Brown deal for him to take over after Blair stood down- no mention of the people deciding who they want to be Prime Minister. His failure to call an election last Autumn showed he is not interested in seeking a democratic mandate for his Premiership. [/quote] Yes... this is a well known Establishment technique where the real ‘leader’ is slightly in shade acting as ‘minder’ and steps out into gaze on a specific timeline. Leader is used as a reference as they are in reality levels of message boy for the Establishment. This way they avoid full exposure early on.
Johnson stepped in for the Establishment after Kennedy, who was just as bad as the rest but may have had a Damascus moment. The ‘shifty’ Heath actually had a Rothschild ‘wing man’. Bush senior done this with Actor Reagan before he got his own stint. The village idiot’s on Dick Cheney’s leash. Laughing boy didn’t give a fook about anything other than money whilst Broon hovered nearby.
Stephen wrote:
Brown's problems arise from his belief that it was his god given right to become Prime Minister after Tony Blair. All we heard for the last 10 years was about the Blair-Brown deal for him to take over after Blair stood down- no mention of the people deciding who they want to be Prime Minister. His failure to call an election last Autumn showed he is not interested in seeking a democratic mandate for his Premiership.
Yes... this is a well known Establishment technique where the real ‘leader’ is slightly in shade acting as ‘minder’ and steps out into gaze on a specific timeline. Leader is used as a reference as they are in reality levels of message boy for the Establishment. This way they avoid full exposure early on.
Johnson stepped in for the Establishment after Kennedy, who was just as bad as the rest but may have had a Damascus moment. The ‘shifty’ Heath actually had a Rothschild ‘wing man’. Bush senior done this with Actor Reagan before he got his own stint. The village idiot’s on Dick Cheney’s leash. Laughing boy didn’t give a fook about anything other than money whilst Broon hovered nearby.
Posted by: wxalexander, canada on 5:00pm Mon 12 May 08
Current oil revenue to the Treasury, 45 billion pounds per year.
Current Barnett formula 30 billion pounds per year.
Nobody is going anywhere
Current oil revenue to the Treasury, 45 billion pounds per year.
Current Barnett formula 30 billion pounds per year.
Nobody is going anywhere
Posted by: TheGlaswegian, Edinburgh on 5:45pm Mon 12 May 08
wxalexander, canada. £30 billion is devolved money. We still have plenty of shared commitments (i.e. non devolved expenditure) and
in reality, 15billion is peanuts to England. Regardless, it is up to the Scottish people to decide their fate. You seem to hint otherwise?
(If Scotland became independent, England could benefit by washing it's hands of NI. )
wxalexander, canada. £30 billion is devolved money. We still have plenty of shared commitments (i.e. non devolved expenditure) and
in reality, 15billion is peanuts to England. Regardless, it is up to the Scottish people to decide their fate. You seem to hint otherwise?
(If Scotland became independent, England could benefit by washing it's hands of NI. )
Posted by: pehman, sussex on 6:17pm Mon 12 May 08
General election
Bring it on !!
General election
Bring it on !!
Posted by: John Leven, Leven Fife on 7:05pm Mon 12 May 08
If Broon were to go now people would think that maybe he was the worst UK prime minister ever.
If he hangs on for another 18 months he will prove it beyond any reasonable doubt.
If Broon were to go now people would think that maybe he was the worst UK prime minister ever.
If he hangs on for another 18 months he will prove it beyond any reasonable doubt.
Posted by: Wen D, Inversnecky on 7:17pm Mon 12 May 08
The English are reclaiming the Westminster parliament as their own, and Scots, as foreigners, will not be made welcome."
Quite b...dy right!
Why the sassenachs have put up with these Scots tenth rate utter nonentities for so long is beyond me!
The faster these SCUM depart from there the better it will be for all us Scots who seek independence from these SCUM quislings!
The English are reclaiming the Westminster parliament as their own, and Scots, as foreigners, will not be made welcome."
Quite b...dy right!
Why the sassenachs have put up with these Scots tenth rate utter nonentities for so long is beyond me!
The faster these SCUM depart from there the better it will be for all us Scots who seek independence from these SCUM quislings!
Posted by: Meep, Shawlands on 7:26pm Mon 12 May 08
Yes the mental stability of Gordon Brown will be the focus of the forth coming election. And to be blunt, he needs some anti depressants just to function. Brown is Labours liability. Let the Labour party deal with it.
Yes the mental stability of Gordon Brown will be the focus of the forth coming election. And to be blunt, he needs some anti depressants just to function. Brown is Labours liability. Let the Labour party deal with it.
Posted by: leroy on 8:08pm Mon 12 May 08
[quote][bold]preddo53[/bold] wrote:
[quote][bold]Mac[/bold] wrote: What we are witnessing is the beginning of an English purge of Scottish MPs within the Labour leadership. A Scottish MP will never, ever attain high office at Westminster again. I doubt that any future UK cabinet will have a Scot in attendance. The English are reclaiming the Westminster parliament as their own, and Scots, as foreigners, will not be made welcome.[/quote] You could well be right, but we all know down here these people are not typical Scots, The Scots I know are mostly decent, honest people. I really don't know where you dug this shower up from.[/quote] Churches and Chapels
preddo53 wrote:
Mac wrote: What we are witnessing is the beginning of an English purge of Scottish MPs within the Labour leadership. A Scottish MP will never, ever attain high office at Westminster again. I doubt that any future UK cabinet will have a Scot in attendance. The English are reclaiming the Westminster parliament as their own, and Scots, as foreigners, will not be made welcome.
You could well be right, but we all know down here these people are not typical Scots, The Scots I know are mostly decent, honest people. I really don't know where you dug this shower up from.
Churches and Chapels
Posted by: Ostrakon, Back of beyond, and further on 8:14pm Mon 12 May 08
Stick a fork in him......... he's done!
Stick a fork in him......... he's done!
Posted by: Jimbo on 8:17pm Mon 12 May 08
[quote]Aides dismissed the allegation as "complete, unsubstantiated garbage". Mr Brown has always insisted that as Chancellor he was careful to distance himself from party funding matters.[/quote]
Why did a man who wanted to be the next Prime Minister feel that he had to distance himself from party funding matters? Was he already aware that they were totally dishonest and decided to do a McCavity as far as funding was concerned?
Aides dismissed the allegation as "complete, unsubstantiated garbage". Mr Brown has always insisted that as Chancellor he was careful to distance himself from party funding matters.
Why did a man who wanted to be the next Prime Minister feel that he had to distance himself from party funding matters? Was he already aware that they were totally dishonest and decided to do a McCavity as far as funding was concerned?
Posted by: Jimmy the Pie on 8:24pm Mon 12 May 08
I'll bet when Our Dear Leader, Comrade Broon gets knifed, New Labour Sleaze and Corruption will still languish in the polls and get a hammering at the next election. I hope the whole lot, Dougie, Des, Jimmy the Hoodie get targeted for a bit of tactical voting.
[bold]It's the least they deserve[/bold]
I'll bet when Our Dear Leader, Comrade Broon gets knifed, New Labour Sleaze and Corruption will still languish in the polls and get a hammering at the next election. I hope the whole lot, Dougie, Des, Jimmy the Hoodie get targeted for a bit of tactical voting.
It's the least they deserve Posted by: Karin, glasgae. on 8:24pm Mon 12 May 08
I have come up with way to show the herald how much sales they are losing due to their editorial policy of supporting the labour party.
If people after reading each article could put as the first thing in their post wether they are buying or not buying the print version of the paper due to how biased the article is then perhaps the herald will soon be able to determine exactly what is wrong with their articles and can change their editorial policy depending on the numbers of people who are either buying or not buying.
lets do this and communicate exactly what the problem is so that they can improve.
I have come up with way to show the herald how much sales they are losing due to their editorial policy of supporting the labour party.
If people after reading each article could put as the first thing in their post wether they are buying or not buying the print version of the paper due to how biased the article is then perhaps the herald will soon be able to determine exactly what is wrong with their articles and can change their editorial policy depending on the numbers of people who are either buying or not buying.
lets do this and communicate exactly what the problem is so that they can improve.
Posted by: Karin, glasgae. on 8:36pm Mon 12 May 08
oh and by the way herald i have a method of sending your sales through the roof but im not telling you what it is until you stop supporting the labour party and become completely unbiased.
My method also has the ability to increase your online figures as well as the print copy at a minor additional cost and when i say minor i mean at the initial outlay and we are not talking thousands here we are talking in terms of pounds.
oh and by the way herald i have a method of sending your sales through the roof but im not telling you what it is until you stop supporting the labour party and become completely unbiased.
My method also has the ability to increase your online figures as well as the print copy at a minor additional cost and when i say minor i mean at the initial outlay and we are not talking thousands here we are talking in terms of pounds.
Posted by: Wen D, Inversnecky on 8:45pm Mon 12 May 08
The English are reclaiming the Westminster parliament as their own, and Scots, as foreigners, will not be made welcome."
Quite b...dy right!
Why the sassenachs have put up with these Scots tenth rate utter nonentities for so long is beyond me!
The faster these SCUM depart from there the better it will be for all us Scots who seek independence from these SCUM quislings!
The English are reclaiming the Westminster parliament as their own, and Scots, as foreigners, will not be made welcome."
Quite b...dy right!
Why the sassenachs have put up with these Scots tenth rate utter nonentities for so long is beyond me!
The faster these SCUM depart from there the better it will be for all us Scots who seek independence from these SCUM quislings!
Posted by: The Wise One, Glasgow on 9:57pm Mon 12 May 08
I notice that Ed Balls and Hazel Blears are doing a character assassination on Frank Fields. Well................
....
I didn't hear any of these two jump to the defence of the 5.3 million people who are losing financially when Gordon Brown doubled the 10p tax rate.
And to think that when they finally decide that GB is a liability and give him the elbow, we will almost certainly have these two, amongst others, putting themselves forward for the leadership. It's enough to make you vomit!
I actually believe all this support for their leader is merely posturing in the knowledge that GB is a dead man walking and they are trying to con people into thinking they are loyal.
I notice that Ed Balls and Hazel Blears are doing a character assassination on Frank Fields. Well................
....
I didn't hear any of these two jump to the defence of the 5.3 million people who are losing financially when Gordon Brown doubled the 10p tax rate.
And to think that when they finally decide that GB is a liability and give him the elbow, we will almost certainly have these two, amongst others, putting themselves forward for the leadership. It's enough to make you vomit!
I actually believe all this support for their leader is merely posturing in the knowledge that GB is a dead man walking and they are trying to con people into thinking they are loyal.
Posted by: Wardog, Buckie on 11:53pm Mon 12 May 08
Ed Balls partly putting the knife into Brown while they perpetuate to 'Smear Field'..... keep your friends close and your enemies closer.
Is this the same Ed Balls who shouted across the chamber [bold]'so what'[/bold] when presented with the fact that 5.3million of the Uk's lowest and most vulnerable workers would be worse off under Gordon's 'Poor Tax'?
Oh Dear.
With friends like Balls, Blears and Alexander, who needs enemies?
Ed Balls partly putting the knife into Brown while they perpetuate to 'Smear Field'..... keep your friends close and your enemies closer.
Is this the same Ed Balls who shouted across the chamber
'so what' when presented with the fact that 5.3million of the Uk's lowest and most vulnerable workers would be worse off under Gordon's 'Poor Tax'?
Oh Dear.
With friends like Balls, Blears and Alexander, who needs enemies?
Posted by: subrosa on 12:13am Tue 13 May 08
[italic]Posted by: Karin, glasgae. on 8:36pm Mon 12 May 08[/italic]
Auch Karin I've to admire you for your tenacity. Don't think they'd like a bright journalist though. They prefer the ones who have tunnel vision.
Posted by: Karin, glasgae. on 8:36pm Mon 12 May 08
Auch Karin I've to admire you for your tenacity. Don't think they'd like a bright journalist though. They prefer the ones who have tunnel vision.
Posted by: Wardog, Buckie on 2:29am Tue 13 May 08
[bold]FAO THE HERALD[/bold]
Can the Herald explain why comments are being continual banned from story's relating to Wendy Alexander.
Can you confirm/deny rumours that Scottish Labour are making complaints to the Herald to try and minimise open discussion and criticism of her policies?
I think the blogging community on these threads really deserves some kind of explanation here.
[bold]Wardog[/bold]
FAO THE HERALD
Can the Herald explain why comments are being continual banned from story's relating to Wendy Alexander.
Can you confirm/deny rumours that Scottish Labour are making complaints to the Herald to try and minimise open discussion and criticism of her policies?
I think the blogging community on these threads really deserves some kind of explanation here.
Wardog
Posted by: Ranting Rab, Carluke on 9:28am Tue 13 May 08
I have long ago ceased paying money for the Herald.
In any case I usually get a superb synopsis of the articles by reading the online comments. Some of which are funny, some are informative and some just sick and sad.
I have long ago ceased paying money for the Herald.
In any case I usually get a superb synopsis of the articles by reading the online comments. Some of which are funny, some are informative and some just sick and sad.
Posted by: Luigi, Aberdeen on 9:35am Tue 13 May 08
[quote][bold]Karin[/bold] wrote:
oh and by the way herald i have a method of sending your sales through the roof but im not telling you what it is until you stop supporting the labour party and become completely unbiased. My method also has the ability to increase your online figures as well as the print copy at a minor additional cost and when i say minor i mean at the initial outlay and we are not talking thousands here we are talking in terms of pounds. [/quote] I switched to the Herald after Andrew Neil took over the Scotsman. However, I have only purchased about two copies of the Herald since last May, mainly due to the low standard of reporting and political bias - blatant propaganda against our democratically elected Scottish government. I have kept posting on the Herald site as I thought at least this paper was slightly less unfair than the Scotsman. However, I have to say that, since the latest "Never-endy Alexander" story broke last week, that, to my surprise, the Scotsman have covered the issue in a much fairer, open style than the Herald. What is going on with the Herald - you have been superior to the Scotsman over the past year - why fall behind now - it is not in the paper's long-term interest. Herald editor - what is going on?
Sales of the Herald and Scotsman are diving for one simple reason - they are not reporting the truth and not covering political issues objectively. They are making themselves irrelevant. With as much as 60-80% of the Scottish population in favour of either independence or more political power, there is a huge potential market for an independent-minded, Scottish broadsheet - if the Herald and Scotsman are not interested in this opportunity, eventually someone else may step in!
Karin wrote:
oh and by the way herald i have a method of sending your sales through the roof but im not telling you what it is until you stop supporting the labour party and become completely unbiased. My method also has the ability to increase your online figures as well as the print copy at a minor additional cost and when i say minor i mean at the initial outlay and we are not talking thousands here we are talking in terms of pounds.
I switched to the Herald after Andrew Neil took over the Scotsman. However, I have only purchased about two copies of the Herald since last May, mainly due to the low standard of reporting and political bias - blatant propaganda against our democratically elected Scottish government. I have kept posting on the Herald site as I thought at least this paper was slightly less unfair than the Scotsman. However, I have to say that, since the latest "Never-endy Alexander" story broke last week, that, to my surprise, the Scotsman have covered the issue in a much fairer, open style than the Herald. What is going on with the Herald - you have been superior to the Scotsman over the past year - why fall behind now - it is not in the paper's long-term interest. Herald editor - what is going on?
Sales of the Herald and Scotsman are diving for one simple reason - they are not reporting the truth and not covering political issues objectively. They are making themselves irrelevant. With as much as 60-80% of the Scottish population in favour of either independence or more political power, there is a huge potential market for an independent-minded, Scottish broadsheet - if the Herald and Scotsman are not interested in this opportunity, eventually someone else may step in!
Posted by: Luigi, Aberdeen on 9:40am Tue 13 May 08
Perhaps we are witnessing a divergence of unionist strategies:
Herald - save the union, defend Wendy at all costs
Scotsman - save the union, get rid of Wendy asap
It will be interesting to see which unionist strategy prevails. The irony is that neither of them will be effective in the long term.
Perhaps we are witnessing a divergence of unionist strategies:
Herald - save the union, defend Wendy at all costs
Scotsman - save the union, get rid of Wendy asap
It will be interesting to see which unionist strategy prevails. The irony is that neither of them will be effective in the long term.
Posted by: Macthickey, Irvine on 8:38pm Tue 13 May 08
There must be some journalist out there who can sum up Gordon
Browns worth to Scotland, the UK and to the World in general.
Firstly ; he bankrolled the Kosova, Iraq and Afghan wars. He is as guilty as Blair in these issues. Many Scots boys/girls have died or
been badly maimed .Equipment, pay and after care poor. The Numpty Unionists still gave Labour their vote.
The SNP narrowly took power in 2007; we can look with pride on their Social Democratic changes in their short period in offfice;
Englands people have a problem. They see Billions spent on Trident and future Nuclear Power Stations. Their NHS is being squeezed because of Private Enterprise movements. The trap of
Tax Credits for Children/ Single Parents housing, loss of 10% Tax
Rate etc sees many pensioners worse off. Allied with seeing Scots
SNP Govern. giving Scots better NH Services.The wars have divided
the English. They have this Eton Class mentality; Queen and country.
Support our heroes . More so than in Scotland. They have kept Labour in power; but not now it seems according to latest Polls.
Jack McConnell may get to be 'Governor ' of Malawi. I urge everybody to read the Bretton Woods project ; the World Bank forced a Poor Country into Dire Poverty. The State Marketing Board ADMARK
was privatised. The Parliament was forced to accept reforms at the
expense ' of the food security of the poor.' Many people died.
Sad to say on the Board of the World Bank was Gordon Brown. This to me showed the True Worth of the Man.
The Glen Eagles ' Ban Poverty ' by Forgiving Poor Countrys Debt
was a sham. Malawi has still a Large Debt. Some Debtors were
outside the World Banks Debtor Cancellation scope.
Brown is not our Official Prime Minister as yet. For this disgraceful
Act to the Malawi people he never should be.
I challenge Jack McConnell to report back to the Scottish Parliament
on the Bretton Woods Disaster for Malawi.
England has not fared
There must be some journalist out there who can sum up Gordon
Browns worth to Scotland, the UK and to the World in general.
Firstly ; he bankrolled the Kosova, Iraq and Afghan wars. He is as guilty as Blair in these issues. Many Scots boys/girls have died or
been badly maimed .Equipment, pay and after care poor. The Numpty Unionists still gave Labour their vote.
The SNP narrowly took power in 2007; we can look with pride on their Social Democratic changes in their short period in offfice;
Englands people have a problem. They see Billions spent on Trident and future Nuclear Power Stations. Their NHS is being squeezed because of Private Enterprise movements. The trap of
Tax Credits for Children/ Single Parents housing, loss of 10% Tax
Rate etc sees many pensioners worse off. Allied with seeing Scots
SNP Govern. giving Scots better NH Services.The wars have divided
the English. They have this Eton Class mentality; Queen and country.
Support our heroes . More so than in Scotland. They have kept Labour in power; but not now it seems according to latest Polls.
Jack McConnell may get to be 'Governor ' of Malawi. I urge everybody to read the Bretton Woods project ; the World Bank forced a Poor Country into Dire Poverty. The State Marketing Board ADMARK
was privatised. The Parliament was forced to accept reforms at the
expense ' of the food security of the poor.' Many people died.
Sad to say on the Board of the World Bank was Gordon Brown. This to me showed the True Worth of the Man.
The Glen Eagles ' Ban Poverty ' by Forgiving Poor Countrys Debt
was a sham. Malawi has still a Large Debt. Some Debtors were
outside the World Banks Debtor Cancellation scope.
Brown is not our Official Prime Minister as yet. For this disgraceful
Act to the Malawi people he never should be.
I challenge Jack McConnell to report back to the Scottish Parliament
on the Bretton Woods Disaster for Malawi.
England has not fared
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