Scotland Office rejects ‘eerie silence’ claim in row over call for referendum
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| PARADISE: Prime Minister Gordon Brown walks with Eden Project managing director Gaynor Coley during his visit in Cornwall. |
ROBBIE DINWOODIE and MICHAEL SETTLE
ATTEMPTS to drag Des Browne, the Scottish Secretary, into the independence referendum row were rebuffed last night as "laughable".
Angus Robertson, the SNP's Westminster leader, questioned what he saw as the lack of leadership being demonstrated by the Secretary of State given the "eerie silence" from the Scotland Office.
"Des Browne has been adamant in his opposition to a referendum," he said. "What does he think now? Does he agree with Wendy Alexander or is he behind Gordon Brown's decision not to back her latest big idea?"
The Moray MP added: "The Scotland Office was quick to wrest the Calman Commission from Scottish control. It is clear from Wendy Alexander and Gordon Brown's behaviour this week that the Scotland Office, the department meant to look after Scotland's constitution, is now completely irrelevant."
David Mundell, the Conservatives' shadow Scottish Secretary, also turned up the pressure on Mr Browne, saying in a letter how surprised he was to learn that he had "refused to appear on Newsnight Scotland each night this week to explain your and your government's position on an independence referendum.
"Given the obvious schism which exists between the Prime Minister and his leader in the Scottish Parliament, Wendy Alexander, over the issue, it is extraordinary that in your role as Secretary of State for Scotland your voice has not been heard."
However, last night, the Scotland Office hit back, saying the opposition parties' attempts to involve Mr Browne in the referendum row were "laughable".
A departmental spokesman said: "When the Prime Minister speaks, he speaks for the government. There is no need for the Secretary of State to come out and endorse that."
He added that the PM's spokesman had made clear the UK Government had no plans at Westminster to bring forward an independence referendum: "This is a Unionist Government. That's why the Calman Commission was established to look at strengthening devolution.
"Wendy Alexander has taken a tactical decision with regard to the proposal by the SNP Government. That falls within her sphere of influence as leader of the Labour Group in the Scottish Parliament."
However, last night, Sir Menzies Campbell, the former LibDem leader, argued that the week's events had "undoubtedly undermined the Calman Commission".
| ‘Wendy’s U-turn has put Labour into a crisis north and south of the border’ | |
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He said: "It's going to take all of Sir Kenneth's commitment and skill to maintain the credibility of his commission following Labour's astonishing conversion to an independence referendum."
Earlier this week, Sir
Kenneth, who chairs the commission, felt it necessary to write to the 14 members of the body, reassuring them that they still had a job to do. He said: "The party leaders and UK Ministers remain fully behind the commission."
Mr Brown was yesterday on government and party business in Cornwall, which included a visit to the Eden Project, but Harriet Harman, the Commons Leader, insisted the UK Government was not confused over the independence referendum issue and was strongly pro-Union.
When asked repeatedly if she agreed with Ms Alexander's "bring it on" line, she referred to the work of the commission, declaring there was "no fundamental split" in Labour ranks.
The Scottish Labour leader received support from one unexpected quarter: Lord Forsyth, the former Conservative Scottish Secretary, backed her call for an early independence referendum.
After a Yougov poll gave the Tories a 26% UK lead, putting Labour on just 23 points, its lowest-ever showing, the SNP pointed to the Scottish sample - albeit only 141 respondents - putting it on 32%, Labour on 26%, the Tories on 21% and the Lib Dems on 13%.
Nicola Sturgeon, the SNP's deputy leader, said: "Wendy's U-turn has helped put Labour into a crisis north and south of the border and put Labour's support at its lowest levels since 1918. Many Labour MPs' nerves will be rattled as the effect of Wendy Alexander's U-turn and Gordon Brown's unpopularity hits home."
Jackie Baillie, Labour's shadow minister for parliamentary business, savaged the SNP over reports that it could work with a David Cameron government.
"SNP votes ushered in the Thatcher Government in 1979. Clearly, the Nationalist leopard hasn't changed its spots," she insisted.
However, a source close to the First Minister made it clear there would be no formal SNP-Conservative pact should Mr Cameron win power at Westminster; rather, the Scottish Government would "approach every issue case by case" to get the best deal for Scotland.
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permission is prohibited.
Posted by: megz, glasgow on 10:47pm Fri 9 May 08
am i hallucinating? are we being allowed to comment?
am i hallucinating? are we being allowed to comment?
Posted by: Alex Wilson, Paisley on 10:48pm Fri 9 May 08
same old lies from Labour....obviously Jackie the hut can't remember that it was the labour govt of wilson/ callaghan that sold scotland down the river with the '70 referendum
same old lies from Labour....obviously Jackie the hut can't remember that it was the labour govt of wilson/ callaghan that sold scotland down the river with the '70 referendum
Posted by: george alexander, north lanarkshire on 10:51pm Fri 9 May 08
[quote]Jackie Baillie, Labour's shadow minister for parliamentary business, savaged the SNP over reports that it could work with a David Cameron government.
"SNP votes ushered in the Thatcher Government in 1979. Clearly, the Nationalist leopard hasn't changed its spots," she insisted.[/quote]
So, The Herald create a headline out of blatant lies and Baillie uses said headline as 'proof' that the SNP will be co-operating with the tories.
What next, an article from Fraser based on the same lies.......I wouldn't be surprised.
Jackie Baillie, Labour's shadow minister for parliamentary business, savaged the SNP over reports that it could work with a David Cameron government.
"SNP votes ushered in the Thatcher Government in 1979. Clearly, the Nationalist leopard hasn't changed its spots," she insisted.
So, The Herald create a headline out of blatant lies and Baillie uses said headline as 'proof' that the SNP will be co-operating with the tories.
What next, an article from Fraser based on the same lies.......I wouldn't be surprised.
Posted by: spagan, heisker, scotland on 10:51pm Fri 9 May 08
I think Des is stressed again. Working long hours with his finger/foot/head in the dyke. Rather him than me!
"Take a chill pill Des" - it won't be long until you can live off a Westminster pension in Torquay.
Slainte Mhor
I think Des is stressed again. Working long hours with his finger/foot/head in the dyke. Rather him than me!
"Take a chill pill Des" - it won't be long until you can live off a Westminster pension in Torquay.
Slainte Mhor
Posted by: Karin, glasgae. on 10:54pm Fri 9 May 08
They probably figure the worst is over megz................
.
ah they havent seen wendys best yet i dont think......
I mean just imagine were wendy to cross the floor hows that going to look.
However unionist i imagine will say that is never going to happen wont they.
however wendy does loads of things that the unionists dont expect doesnt she............he he he bring it on for them wendy.........
Go on wendy doll do it now.................
.................
wendy i think your going to have to do that to finally convince them.
They probably figure the worst is over megz................
.
ah they havent seen wendys best yet i dont think......
I mean just imagine were wendy to cross the floor hows that going to look.
However unionist i imagine will say that is never going to happen wont they.
however wendy does loads of things that the unionists dont expect doesnt she............he he he bring it on for them wendy.........
Go on wendy doll do it now.................
.................
wendy i think your going to have to do that to finally convince them.
Posted by: megz, glasgow on 11:01pm Fri 9 May 08
And so it begins, all the old lies being regurgitated. It is so depressing.
And so it begins, all the old lies being regurgitated. It is so depressing.
Posted by: george alexander, north lanarkshire on 11:02pm Fri 9 May 08
Of course I should have pointed out that The Herald have used quotes based on their own lies.
You see how this thing works? One starts a lie, the other uses the lie as 'proof' to support an accusation. The paper then quotes the politician making the accusation.........p
retty soon the lie takes on a life of it's own and hey presto, you have the 'Trump' effect where the lie is used regularly in headlines.
Remember where you read this first, 09 May 2008.........the day the lie grew legs.
Watch out for 'the lie' doing the rounds of the usual suspects as the unionists desperately try to give it credence.
Of course I should have pointed out that The Herald have used quotes based on their own lies.
You see how this thing works? One starts a lie, the other uses the lie as 'proof' to support an accusation. The paper then quotes the politician making the accusation.........p
retty soon the lie takes on a life of it's own and hey presto, you have the 'Trump' effect where the lie is used regularly in headlines.
Remember where you read this first, 09 May 2008.........the day the lie grew legs.
Watch out for 'the lie' doing the rounds of the usual suspects as the unionists desperately try to give it credence.
Posted by: Wullie, Aberdeen on 11:15pm Fri 9 May 08
Gordon Broon and his liebour party is the most unpopular man since Oliver Cromwell and the Roundheads. Huzzah. When Scotland achieves independence,what are we going to do with Broon ?The English dont want him and the Scots dont want him either. We should stick Broon on the island of St Helena guarded by the navy or a cheaper alternative, drop Broon into a threshing machine from a great height. Huzzah.
Gordon Broon and his liebour party is the most unpopular man since Oliver Cromwell and the Roundheads. Huzzah. When Scotland achieves independence,what are we going to do with Broon ?The English dont want him and the Scots dont want him either. We should stick Broon on the island of St Helena guarded by the navy or a cheaper alternative, drop Broon into a threshing machine from a great height. Huzzah.
Posted by: Wen D, Inversnecky on 11:16pm Fri 9 May 08
I think the UN should be involved here asap!
The UK govt will stop at NOTHING to undermine the elected Scots govt at every opportunity!
The Scots newspapers owners should be fined and the editors jailed if it is found that they have been guilty of misinformation!
I think the UN should be involved here asap!
The UK govt will stop at NOTHING to undermine the elected Scots govt at every opportunity!
The Scots newspapers owners should be fined and the editors jailed if it is found that they have been guilty of misinformation!
Posted by: Tired of excuses, Galashiels on 11:20pm Fri 9 May 08
Des Browne too cowardly to have an opinion.
Says it all really.
Des Browne too cowardly to have an opinion.
Says it all really.
Posted by: Tired of excuses, Galashiels on 11:20pm Fri 9 May 08
Des Browne to cowardly to have an opinion.
Says it all really.
Des Browne to cowardly to have an opinion.
Says it all really.
Posted by: megz, glasgow on 11:25pm Fri 9 May 08
he's either on sick leave or bound and gagged so he doesnt take wendy out personally. has anyone seen/heard him at all, is he missing?
he's either on sick leave or bound and gagged so he doesnt take wendy out personally. has anyone seen/heard him at all, is he missing?
Posted by: Wullie, Aberdeen on 11:28pm Fri 9 May 08
I think Nicola Sturgeon could take Des Browne in a fight.
I think Nicola Sturgeon could take Des Browne in a fight.
Posted by: Colin B, Bearsden on 11:29pm Fri 9 May 08
Browne is a trained and well practised liar ( and a Scottish Solicitor )- few listen to him anyway after the sailors stories fiasco, cockpit video lies, pay, housing, hospital care, equipment, the two type 45s, no aircraft carrier contract- he jsut backs up his beloved civil servants while he treat the trooops like a rag doll he cna throw away when he is finished
Browne is a trained and well practised liar ( and a Scottish Solicitor )- few listen to him anyway after the sailors stories fiasco, cockpit video lies, pay, housing, hospital care, equipment, the two type 45s, no aircraft carrier contract- he jsut backs up his beloved civil servants while he treat the trooops like a rag doll he cna throw away when he is finished
Posted by: Sean Connery for President, Perth on 11:30pm Fri 9 May 08
[quote]"When the Prime Minister speaks, he speaks for the government. There is no need for the Secretary of State to come out and endorse that."[/quote]
Maybe young Des doesn't need to comment, but my MP does. He sent me a rather nice email this afternoon trying hard to explain why ELAB and SLAB are both saying the same thing. Did anyone else get one - I'm not sure but I think it came from "theyworkforyou.com"
. It's a bit wordy. If anyone wants to have a giggle let me know and I'll post it (here obviously! not through the Royal Mail)
"When the Prime Minister speaks, he speaks for the government. There is no need for the Secretary of State to come out and endorse that."
Maybe young Des doesn't need to comment, but my MP does. He sent me a rather nice email this afternoon trying hard to explain why ELAB and SLAB are both saying the same thing. Did anyone else get one - I'm not sure but I think it came from "theyworkforyou.com"
. It's a bit wordy. If anyone wants to have a giggle let me know and I'll post it (here obviously! not through the Royal Mail)
Posted by: Samoyed, Costa del Menie on 11:31pm Fri 9 May 08
I shouldn't worry much about anything caming out of Jackie Bally's mouth. If what came out of her boss is what we all know it is, I'm trying very hard here not to be censored by the non-existant censors, what came out of the minion is of a lesser quality indeed.
Who cares about her opinions? except few collegues at Weight Watchers. I got from a good source that her recipes to avoid flatulence are very sought after, so are her remedies against constipation.
What gave me the shivers, was my friend explicit detailed explanation of events that take place in a certain toilet stall of the premises where the meeting are hold. I'm having nigthmares since.
Can you imagine the picture when the remedies work?
I shouldn't worry much about anything caming out of Jackie Bally's mouth. If what came out of her boss is what we all know it is, I'm trying very hard here not to be censored by the non-existant censors, what came out of the minion is of a lesser quality indeed.
Who cares about her opinions? except few collegues at Weight Watchers. I got from a good source that her recipes to avoid flatulence are very sought after, so are her remedies against constipation.
What gave me the shivers, was my friend explicit detailed explanation of events that take place in a certain toilet stall of the premises where the meeting are hold. I'm having nigthmares since.
Can you imagine the picture when the remedies work?
Posted by: soloman, Stirling on 11:41pm Fri 9 May 08
Lies breed lies.
Trick of the mind!
They all believe each other and believe that everyone else believes them!
Lies breed lies.
Trick of the mind!
They all believe each other and believe that everyone else believes them!
Posted by: Mrs I P Knightly, Scotland on 11:46pm Fri 9 May 08
[quote][bold]Wullie[/bold] wrote:
I think Nicola Sturgeon could take Des Browne in a fight.[/quote] in a car park stripped to the waist -
Wullie wrote:
I think Nicola Sturgeon could take Des Browne in a fight.
in a car park stripped to the waist -
Posted by: Karin, glasgae. on 11:48pm Fri 9 May 08
[quote]"When the Prime Minister speaks, he speaks for the government. There is no need for the Secretary of State to come out and endorse that."[/quote]
well unless of course hes speaking on behalf of wendy alexander..........
"When the Prime Minister speaks, he speaks for the government. There is no need for the Secretary of State to come out and endorse that."
well unless of course hes speaking on behalf of wendy alexander..........
Posted by: nouveauxscum on 11:49pm Fri 9 May 08
To the people of wherever Jackie Baillie represents at Holyrood.
You are represented by a liar. Quite a savager too. lol
To the people of wherever Jackie Baillie represents at Holyrood.
You are represented by a liar. Quite a savager too. lol
Posted by: Karin, glasgae. on 11:50pm Fri 9 May 08
and still silence from the herald on the reason for the banning of comments............
................
and still silence from the herald on the reason for the banning of comments............
................
Posted by: Mrs I P Knightly, Scotland on 11:53pm Fri 9 May 08
the paper is to be renamed - Völkischer Beobachter - it recycles party propaganda
the paper is to be renamed - Völkischer Beobachter - it recycles party propaganda
Posted by: macgilleleabhar, Aberdeenshire on 11:55pm Fri 9 May 08
Wullie,
Nicola wud not be a wumman tae tak a broken pay packet hame tae!!
Wullie,
Nicola wud not be a wumman tae tak a broken pay packet hame tae!!
Posted by: soloman, Stirling on Sat 10 May 08
I suppose that Des Browne is very busy doing his more important job and so why should the Scottish people expect a busy important man to take the time to clarify what might just be part of his remit.
Of course he could have pushed forward his deputy dog the mcchatterriing classes best friend to clarify.
We Scots like to have ex preachers preach to us about how we are all swivel eyed bigots etc etc.
Bring them on!
I suppose that Des Browne is very busy doing his more important job and so why should the Scottish people expect a busy important man to take the time to clarify what might just be part of his remit.
Of course he could have pushed forward his deputy dog the mcchatterriing classes best friend to clarify.
We Scots like to have ex preachers preach to us about how we are all swivel eyed bigots etc etc.
Bring them on!
Posted by: nouveauxscum on 12:05am Sat 10 May 08
Cheers for that Sean. These New Labour types really do specialise in being econimical with the truth.
[quote]However the SNP refuse to take part in this Commission, preferring to engage in their National Conversation.[/quote]
How can the SNP take part in something they were deliberately excluded from?
The whole tone of the email seems to have been specifically worded to appeal to idiots. Or maybe it was just the author's natural style. lol
Cheers for that Sean. These New Labour types really do specialise in being econimical with the truth.
However the SNP refuse to take part in this Commission, preferring to engage in their National Conversation.
How can the SNP take part in something they were deliberately excluded from?
The whole tone of the email seems to have been specifically worded to appeal to idiots. Or maybe it was just the author's natural style. lol
Posted by: Karin, glasgae. on 12:11am Sat 10 May 08
[quote][bold]nouveauxscum[/bold] wrote:
Cheers for that Sean. These New Labour types really do specialise in being econimical with the truth. [quote]However the SNP refuse to take part in this Commission, preferring to engage in their National Conversation.[/quote] How can the SNP take part in something they were deliberately excluded from? The whole tone of the email seems to have been specifically worded to appeal to idiots. Or maybe it was just the author's natural style. lol[/quote] downright LIARS is what they are.
nouveauxscum wrote:
Cheers for that Sean. These New Labour types really do specialise in being econimical with the truth. However the SNP refuse to take part in this Commission, preferring to engage in their National Conversation.
How can the SNP take part in something they were deliberately excluded from? The whole tone of the email seems to have been specifically worded to appeal to idiots. Or maybe it was just the author's natural style. lol
downright LIARS is what they are.
Posted by: Tunnock, kirkton on 12:15am Sat 10 May 08
As Sean Connery for Pres has just demonstated, giving out your e-mail address to anybody will result in spammers,lunatics and fraudsters contacting you.
As Sean Connery for Pres has just demonstated, giving out your e-mail address to anybody will result in spammers,lunatics and fraudsters contacting you.
Posted by: Old Tam, Glasgow on 12:15am Sat 10 May 08
[quote][bold]megz[/bold] wrote:
And so it begins, all the old lies being regurgitated. It is so depressing. [/quote] Megz, you are right. We must be vigilant against this propaganda but we must not become depressed. The westminster system WILL produce a tory government with a working majority and as this fact gradually sinks in to the minds of the Scottish people - depressing as it is - they will see the SNP's referendum as their best bet for protection.
Even if labour wins more Scottish seats than the SNP, they cannot realistically argue for continued dominance from London when there is a tory government. That is what frightens the labour jobsworths. Never forget that self-preservation is their creed - I expect that many of them will actually endorse independence after Cameron wins in London.
megz wrote:
And so it begins, all the old lies being regurgitated. It is so depressing.
Megz, you are right. We must be vigilant against this propaganda but we must not become depressed. The westminster system WILL produce a tory government with a working majority and as this fact gradually sinks in to the minds of the Scottish people - depressing as it is - they will see the SNP's referendum as their best bet for protection.
Even if labour wins more Scottish seats than the SNP, they cannot realistically argue for continued dominance from London when there is a tory government. That is what frightens the labour jobsworths. Never forget that self-preservation is their creed - I expect that many of them will actually endorse independence after Cameron wins in London.
Posted by: Traquir, Alba on 12:18am Sat 10 May 08
I encourage all on here to report the Herald to
the Press Complaints Commission for their
blatant abuse of the truth which is now being
use by Jackie Baillie on the back of article
"Salmond offers a Commons pact to Cameron".
The URL for the Press Complaints Commission
is - tinyurl.com/5on4rl
I recommend reading in detail the Code of Practice
to which The Herald is bound - tinyurl.com/scp9m
From my review they have grossly violated codes
1(i),1(ii),1(iii),2 & 10(ii)
I have put in an official complaint in the Press
Complaints Commission for the outrageous
press abuse and I highly recommend
others to do the same. The exact text of
my complaint is below :
"1(i) The Press must take care not to publish
inaccurate, misleading or distorted information,
including pictures.
The article in question is complete inaccurate,
misleading and distorted. In addition the The Herald
prevented comments on this inaccurate, misleading and
distorted article, whilst still allowing comments
on similar stories. Preventing comments on this just
helps to compound the degree to which this story is
inaccurate, misleading and distorted.
1(ii) A significant inaccuracy, misleading statement or
distortion once recognised must be corrected,
promptly and with due prominence, and -
where appropriate - an apology published.
As per (i) I would expect a full apology for this
violation per the Code Of Practice to which
The Herald has committed itself.
1(iii) The Press, whilst free to be partisan, must
distinguish clearly between comment,
conjecture and fact.
This story clearly violate this code of practice also.
2 Opportunity to reply
The Herald deliberately suspended
comments on this story thereby severely restricting
the opportunity to reply.
10(ii) Engaging in misrepresentation
This story seriously misrepresents the position
of the SNP Government"
Feel free to copy my complaint completely if you want to
use it or parts of it for your own complaint.
I encourage all on here to report the Herald to
the Press Complaints Commission for their
blatant abuse of the truth which is now being
use by Jackie Baillie on the back of article
"Salmond offers a Commons pact to Cameron".
The URL for the Press Complaints Commission
is - tinyurl.com/5on4rl
I recommend reading in detail the Code of Practice
to which The Herald is bound - tinyurl.com/scp9m
From my review they have grossly violated codes
1(i),1(ii),1(iii),2 & 10(ii)
I have put in an official complaint in the Press
Complaints Commission for the outrageous
press abuse and I highly recommend
others to do the same. The exact text of
my complaint is below :
"1(i) The Press must take care not to publish
inaccurate, misleading or distorted information,
including pictures.
The article in question is complete inaccurate,
misleading and distorted. In addition the The Herald
prevented comments on this inaccurate, misleading and
distorted article, whilst still allowing comments
on similar stories. Preventing comments on this just
helps to compound the degree to which this story is
inaccurate, misleading and distorted.
1(ii) A significant inaccuracy, misleading statement or
distortion once recognised must be corrected,
promptly and with due prominence, and -
where appropriate - an apology published.
As per (i) I would expect a full apology for this
violation per the Code Of Practice to which
The Herald has committed itself.
1(iii) The Press, whilst free to be partisan, must
distinguish clearly between comment,
conjecture and fact.
This story clearly violate this code of practice also.
2 Opportunity to reply
The Herald deliberately suspended
comments on this story thereby severely restricting
the opportunity to reply.
10(ii) Engaging in misrepresentation
This story seriously misrepresents the position
of the SNP Government"
Feel free to copy my complaint completely if you want to
use it or parts of it for your own complaint.
Posted by: Wallace, Perth on 12:19am Sat 10 May 08
I wonder if Big Jackie replaces Wee Wendy as SLab leader, will she then be referred to by the unionist press as a "political heavyweight"?
By the way, isn't the silence deafening from our usual unionist trolls these past few days? I'd got so used to having a laugh at their abusive and demented posts, especially from Exiled Koala Poo, I really miss them. Honest! Hee! Hee!
I wonder if Big Jackie replaces Wee Wendy as SLab leader, will she then be referred to by the unionist press as a "political heavyweight"?
By the way, isn't the silence deafening from our usual unionist trolls these past few days? I'd got so used to having a laugh at their abusive and demented posts, especially from Exiled Koala Poo, I really miss them. Honest! Hee! Hee!
Posted by: Traquir, Alba on 12:23am Sat 10 May 08
If they could not get Des Browne to represent the Scotland Office
why did they not get his pal David Cairns. The Scotsman
had already tracked him down yesterday and reported
he was wandering around the House Of Commons with
his head in his hands. I am sure he would have taken
the opportunity to chatter with the media to explain
the Scotland Office position on the matter at hand.
Or perhaps as Alex Salmond mentioned the Scotland Office
is totally irrelevant so probably there was no point anyway.
If they could not get Des Browne to represent the Scotland Office
why did they not get his pal David Cairns. The Scotsman
had already tracked him down yesterday and reported
he was wandering around the House Of Commons with
his head in his hands. I am sure he would have taken
the opportunity to chatter with the media to explain
the Scotland Office position on the matter at hand.
Or perhaps as Alex Salmond mentioned the Scotland Office
is totally irrelevant so probably there was no point anyway.
Posted by: Im no really here, but over there on 12:39am Sat 10 May 08
[quote]However, last night, the Scotland Office hit back, saying the opposition parties' attempts to involve Mr Browne in the referendum row were "laughable".[/quote] Translated as: "If you think we're going to go down with Wendy, you must be mad - she's on her own".
[quote]George Alexander wrote:
So, The Herald create a headline out of blatant lies and Baillie uses said headline as 'proof' that the SNP will be co-operating with the tories.[/quote] This is a tactic of the Labour Scottish Press. I'm surprised a Labour MSP hasn't quoted the Daily Record article yet as an "independent study reveals...."
However, last night, the Scotland Office hit back, saying the opposition parties' attempts to involve Mr Browne in the referendum row were "laughable".
Translated as: "If you think we're going to go down with Wendy, you must be mad - she's on her own".
George Alexander wrote:
So, The Herald create a headline out of blatant lies and Baillie uses said headline as 'proof' that the SNP will be co-operating with the tories.
This is a tactic of the Labour Scottish Press. I'm surprised a Labour MSP hasn't quoted the Daily Record article yet as an "independent study reveals...."
Posted by: Vivas, Embra on 12:45am Sat 10 May 08
[quote][bold]Sean Connery for President[/bold] wrote:
Ach tae hell with it - here's the email, from Gordon Banks MP (not the goalie) - well, it made me laugh anyway:-)
"Wendy Alexander was right last weekend when she said that the Labour Party had nothing to fear from a referendum on Scotland’s constitutional future. But she was also right to say that the decision to take a referendum to the people of Scotland must lie with the country’s elected representatives. So why have the SNP not shown the courage of their convictions and called for a referendum now rather than in two years time? Why haven’t they even brought one single proposal before Westminster or the Scottish Parliament?
Well let me tell you why. I and the rest of mainstream Scottish public opinion want to remain part of the UK and to capitalise on the benefits that it brings and the Nationalists know that. Two years gives the SNP ample opportunity to manufacture the myth that the SNP is standing up for Scotland against the big bad bullies at Westminster. How long are we going to be subjected to this myth that the SNP are the saviours of Scotland? It's absolutely ludicrous coming from a party which can barely count on the support of 1 in 5 voters in Scotland.
I took part in a debate in Westminster Hall recently organised by SNP MP Pete Wishart. The debate was intended to examine the Scotland Act ten years on. In the debate, MPs from all parties were subjected to a baseless rant by Mr Wishart and his SNP colleagues which brought nothing new or particularly noteworthy to the debate on Scotland’s Constitutional future.
The Labour Party, and other Unionist party’s have tried to engage in a mature debate on this issue and that is why the Calman Commission was established to look into this very issue. However the SNP refuse to take part in this Commission, preferring to engage in their National Conversation. Anyone who has looked at the Conversation’s website will have seen it is merely an opportunity for bigoted individuals to vent their twisted views in a public forum at taxpayer’s expense.
Independence for Scotland is not the dominant issue that my constituents raise with me – and I’m sure our local MSP's would tell you the same. However, independence is an issue that strikes a chord in the media and it would be folly for me not to put my views in public when I know that the majority of you agree with me. Perhaps it is time to put a line under this issue once and for all and deal with the issues that affect people’s day to day lives in Scotland?"
[/quote] Banks is just another referendum hypocrite. I just spent 5 minutes googling his Westminster efforts and it's turgid stuff.
Anyway, the point is he has voted in the past against the EU referendum. Another one of these EU referendum bad, Scottish referendum doublethink jockeys.
I don't usually google the utterances of SLAB half-wits but it strikes me from that brief bit of googling I did there, that it would take very little to dig quotes that are completely at odds with their collective referendum conversion this week...
Sean Connery for President wrote:
Ach tae hell with it - here's the email, from Gordon Banks MP (not the goalie) - well, it made me laugh anyway:-)
"Wendy Alexander was right last weekend when she said that the Labour Party had nothing to fear from a referendum on Scotland’s constitutional future. But she was also right to say that the decision to take a referendum to the people of Scotland must lie with the country’s elected representatives. So why have the SNP not shown the courage of their convictions and called for a referendum now rather than in two years time? Why haven’t they even brought one single proposal before Westminster or the Scottish Parliament?
Well let me tell you why. I and the rest of mainstream Scottish public opinion want to remain part of the UK and to capitalise on the benefits that it brings and the Nationalists know that. Two years gives the SNP ample opportunity to manufacture the myth that the SNP is standing up for Scotland against the big bad bullies at Westminster. How long are we going to be subjected to this myth that the SNP are the saviours of Scotland? It's absolutely ludicrous coming from a party which can barely count on the support of 1 in 5 voters in Scotland.
I took part in a debate in Westminster Hall recently organised by SNP MP Pete Wishart. The debate was intended to examine the Scotland Act ten years on. In the debate, MPs from all parties were subjected to a baseless rant by Mr Wishart and his SNP colleagues which brought nothing new or particularly noteworthy to the debate on Scotland’s Constitutional future.
The Labour Party, and other Unionist party’s have tried to engage in a mature debate on this issue and that is why the Calman Commission was established to look into this very issue. However the SNP refuse to take part in this Commission, preferring to engage in their National Conversation. Anyone who has looked at the Conversation’s website will have seen it is merely an opportunity for bigoted individuals to vent their twisted views in a public forum at taxpayer’s expense.
Independence for Scotland is not the dominant issue that my constituents raise with me – and I’m sure our local MSP's would tell you the same. However, independence is an issue that strikes a chord in the media and it would be folly for me not to put my views in public when I know that the majority of you agree with me. Perhaps it is time to put a line under this issue once and for all and deal with the issues that affect people’s day to day lives in Scotland?"
Banks is just another referendum hypocrite. I just spent 5 minutes googling his Westminster efforts and it's turgid stuff.
Anyway, the point is he has voted in the past against the EU referendum. Another one of these EU referendum bad, Scottish referendum doublethink jockeys.
I don't usually google the utterances of SLAB half-wits but it strikes me from that brief bit of googling I did there, that it would take very little to dig quotes that are completely at odds with their collective referendum conversion this week...
Posted by: Im no really here, but over there on 12:46am Sat 10 May 08
[quote]Old Tam wrote:
Even if labour wins more Scottish seats than the SNP, they cannot realistically argue for continued dominance from London when there is a tory government. That is what frightens the labour jobsworths. Never forget that self-preservation is their creed - I expect that many of them will actually endorse independence after Cameron wins in London.[/quote] What will happen is that PM Cameron will side-line or ignore the Calman Commission report, particularly if it means more Devolution. The SLAB will jump up and down and say he is playing into the hands of the SNP.
Mind you, I have a feeling that the Calman Commission might suggest that Holyrood should be devolved the powers of buying their own toilet paper, paper clips and pencils.
Old Tam wrote:
Even if labour wins more Scottish seats than the SNP, they cannot realistically argue for continued dominance from London when there is a tory government. That is what frightens the labour jobsworths. Never forget that self-preservation is their creed - I expect that many of them will actually endorse independence after Cameron wins in London.
What will happen is that PM Cameron will side-line or ignore the Calman Commission report, particularly if it means more Devolution. The SLAB will jump up and down and say he is playing into the hands of the SNP.
Mind you, I have a feeling that the Calman Commission might suggest that Holyrood should be devolved the powers of buying their own toilet paper, paper clips and pencils.
Posted by: Big Boy Did It, And Ran Away on 12:51am Sat 10 May 08
[quote]The Labour Party, and other Unionist party’s have tried to engage in a mature debate[/quote]
Mature debate?
The Labour Party, and other Unionist party’s have tried to engage in a mature debate
Mature debate?
Posted by: doonhamer on 1:00am Sat 10 May 08
If the YouGov Poll caused panic, don't show them the Populus Poll
Interesting numbers in the recent YouGov and Populus polls.
[bold]Populus Westminster Poll for the Times
Scottish Results May 2-4 2008
(est. seats Electoral Calculus)[/bold]
[quote]SNP 41 (43)
Labour 25 (8)
Conservatives 18 (3)
LibDem 11 (5)[/quote]
[bold]YouGov Westminster Poll for the Sun
Scottish Results May 7-8 2008
(est. seats Electoral Calculus)[/bold]
[quote]SNP 32 (23)
Labour 26 (21)
Conservatives 21 (7)
LibDem 13 (8)[/quote]
[bold]Average of both polls[/bold]
[quote]SNP 36.5 (36)
Labour 25.5 (11)
Conservatives 19.5 (5)
LibDem 12.0 (7)[/quote]
If the YouGov Poll caused panic, don't show them the Populus Poll
Interesting numbers in the recent YouGov and Populus polls.
Populus Westminster Poll for the Times
Scottish Results May 2-4 2008
(est. seats Electoral Calculus)
SNP 41 (43)
Labour 25 (8)
Conservatives 18 (3)
LibDem 11 (5)
YouGov Westminster Poll for the Sun
Scottish Results May 7-8 2008
(est. seats Electoral Calculus)
SNP 32 (23)
Labour 26 (21)
Conservatives 21 (7)
LibDem 13 (8)
Average of both polls
SNP 36.5 (36)
Labour 25.5 (11)
Conservatives 19.5 (5)
LibDem 12.0 (7)
Posted by: David on 1:04am Sat 10 May 08
For the traditionalist I would say " remember the ground nut scheme" but few would remember that Labour disaster. Then you may remember the winter of discontent. It brought the disaster Maggie to the fore. The SNP had nothing to do with that. much as the Labour liars try. [bold]Callaghan did not have the balls to sort the problem so Maggie with or without balls smashed the working class into submission.[/bold] Labour tries but fails to defend the working class. The SNP by definition always does.
For the traditionalist I would say " remember the ground nut scheme" but few would remember that Labour disaster. Then you may remember the winter of discontent. It brought the disaster Maggie to the fore. The SNP had nothing to do with that. much as the Labour liars try.
Callaghan did not have the balls to sort the problem so Maggie with or without balls smashed the working class into submission. Labour tries but fails to defend the working class. The SNP by definition always does.
Posted by: Big Eye, Paisley on 1:04am Sat 10 May 08
Arithmetic lesson for Jackie Baillie
As a Scottsh voter goes into the polls at every UK election around another 10 electors are going into the polls in other parts of the UK to vote in the same election.
Even if all the voters in Scotland voted SNP in a UK election then they would have only 59 seats in a Parliament of well over 600 members.
It is virtually impossible for Scotland to determine the outcome of a UK election unless the voters OUTSIDE Scotland vote for a very close result.
Labour lost in 1979 because the Callaghan government was a disaster area although to be fair to the man he was probably a lot more capable that the current Labour mob!
Arithmetic lesson for Jackie Baillie
As a Scottsh voter goes into the polls at every UK election around another 10 electors are going into the polls in other parts of the UK to vote in the same election.
Even if all the voters in Scotland voted SNP in a UK election then they would have only 59 seats in a Parliament of well over 600 members.
It is virtually impossible for Scotland to determine the outcome of a UK election unless the voters OUTSIDE Scotland vote for a very close result.
Labour lost in 1979 because the Callaghan government was a disaster area although to be fair to the man he was probably a lot more capable that the current Labour mob!
Posted by: David on 1:05am Sat 10 May 08
For the traditionalist I would say " remember the ground nut scheme" but few would remember that Labour disaster. Then you may remember the winter of discontent. It brought the disaster Maggie to the fore. The SNP had nothing to do with that. much as the Labour liars try. [bold]Callaghan did not have the balls to sort the problem so Maggie with or without balls smashed the working class into submission.[/bold] Labour tries but fails to defend the working class. The SNP by definition always does.
For the traditionalist I would say " remember the ground nut scheme" but few would remember that Labour disaster. Then you may remember the winter of discontent. It brought the disaster Maggie to the fore. The SNP had nothing to do with that. much as the Labour liars try.
Callaghan did not have the balls to sort the problem so Maggie with or without balls smashed the working class into submission. Labour tries but fails to defend the working class. The SNP by definition always does.
Posted by: Tunnock, kirkton on 1:14am Sat 10 May 08
The sun poll makes great reading, the average makes excellent reading, the times poll is bloody scary.
The sun poll makes great reading, the average makes excellent reading, the times poll is bloody scary.
Posted by: Dave, Away on 1:31am Sat 10 May 08
"Jackie Baillie, Labour's shadow minister for parliamentary business, savaged the SNP ..."
Sorry, I did read through the above comments but I still can't get the image of Doberman Baillie with the report in her maw shaking it back and forth.....I'd better go watch some TV....
"Jackie Baillie, Labour's shadow minister for parliamentary business, savaged the SNP ..."
Sorry, I did read through the above comments but I still can't get the image of Doberman Baillie with the report in her maw shaking it back and forth.....I'd better go watch some TV....
Posted by: BIG G, Fa kirk on 2:05am Sat 10 May 08
Megz says [quote]am i hallucinating? are we being allowed to comment[/quote]
STRANGE MOST UNUSUAL !
perhaps someone has finally realised that
a) the writing is on the wall for their political masters or
b) no comments also means a drop in sales and a drop in sales means jackets hanging on shoogly nails
Megz says
am i hallucinating? are we being allowed to comment
STRANGE MOST UNUSUAL !
perhaps someone has finally realised that
a) the writing is on the wall for their political masters or
b) no comments also means a drop in sales and a drop in sales means jackets hanging on shoogly nails
Posted by: Frank Rankin, Glasgow on 2:16am Sat 10 May 08
[quote]the UK Government had no plans at Westminster to bring forward an independence referendum: "This is a Unionist Government. That's why the Calman Commission was established to look at strengthening devolution.[/quote]
Oh - but I thought the the Calman Commission was supposed to be a Scottish Parliament initiative - not a UK Government one. But maybe the forelock tugging British nationalists don't appreciate the difference.
Scotland - get up off your knees. Be Scottish citizens - not British subjects.
the UK Government had no plans at Westminster to bring forward an independence referendum: "This is a Unionist Government. That's why the Calman Commission was established to look at strengthening devolution.
Oh - but I thought the the Calman Commission was supposed to be a Scottish Parliament initiative - not a UK Government one. But maybe the forelock tugging British nationalists don't appreciate the difference.
Scotland - get up off your knees. Be Scottish citizens - not British subjects.
Posted by: Traquir, Alba on 2:24am Sat 10 May 08
For those of you that have not yet had the pleasure of
savouring the Iain Gray interview here you go
tinyurl.com/5p6wzz
Enjoy
For those of you that have not yet had the pleasure of
savouring the Iain Gray interview here you go
tinyurl.com/5p6wzz
Enjoy
Posted by: james, dundee on 2:30am Sat 10 May 08
Jackie the Hut need to refer to George Cunningham as the man responsible for the ushering in of 'Thatcherism'. Plenty in the London-first Labour Party today willing to usher in 'Cameronism'.
Lies and corruption are Labous forte and will see them ousted.
An SNP / Tory coalition, although being a wet-dream of certain Herald journalists and fat lazy Labour politicos will NEVER happen.
Jackie the Hut need to refer to George Cunningham as the man responsible for the ushering in of 'Thatcherism'. Plenty in the London-first Labour Party today willing to usher in 'Cameronism'.
Lies and corruption are Labous forte and will see them ousted.
An SNP / Tory coalition, although being a wet-dream of certain Herald journalists and fat lazy Labour politicos will NEVER happen.
Posted by: Alan Hogg, Ayr on 2:43am Sat 10 May 08
I know of at least one tory MSP who was in favour of independence over 20 years ago. He went on to serve the parliament in a prominent position.
I know of at least one tory MSP who was in favour of independence over 20 years ago. He went on to serve the parliament in a prominent position.
Posted by: redc;liffe62, brisbane on hols on 4:58am Sat 10 May 08
Perhaps the Calman Commission could advise us all who they represent; is it the Scottish Government, Scottish Office, or the British labour party?
I suppose it could bhave been said to perhaps represent the libs and the tories as well as labour, but after last week I have removed that as a viable or realistic answer to the question.
Perhaps the Calman Commission could advise us all who they represent; is it the Scottish Government, Scottish Office, or the British labour party?
I suppose it could bhave been said to perhaps represent the libs and the tories as well as labour, but after last week I have removed that as a viable or realistic answer to the question.
Posted by: Celtic Lion, Roar on 5:30am Sat 10 May 08
[quote]"This is a Unionist Government. That's why the Calman Commission was established to look at strengthening devolution.”[/quote]
And I was just beginning to believe this government to be a “[italic]Listening[/italic] Government”.
[quote]"Wendy Alexander has taken a tactical decision...”[/quote]
So it isn't about giving the people of Scotland an opportunity to be heard? Dear oh dear, Wendy must have got her wires crossed somewhere.
[quote]Harriet Harman, the Commons Leader, insisted the UK Government was not confused over the independence referendum issue and was strongly pro-Union.[/quote]
Not confused, just angry that someone who has proven herself to be confused time and time again made a Scottish policy without first referring to London.
[quote]"SNP votes ushered in the Thatcher Government in 1979. Clearly, the Nationalist leopard hasn't changed its spots," (Jackie Baillie] insisted.[/quote]
How comforting to know that while one Labour M(S)P is shrugging off responsibility for Labour party failings, another will soon be along to “ask” us to allow them to learn from their mistakes. Clearly the Labour dead sheep hasn't changed its... er... paint branding.
Sir Menzies Campbell was right to insist on [italic]Question Time[/italic] that the Labour party governs by headline, though he failed to mention the well greased sub-editors who write such misleading headlines as that to which we were treated yesterday. I stopped buying [italic]The Herald[/italic] sometime ago in disgust at a string of Douglas Fraser's more colourful stories and sadly it's done nothing in the meantime to win back my custom (though it still remains well above [italic]The Hootsmon[/italic] on the truth scale). As [bold]George Alexander[/bold] writes this is how lies begin, and that undermines a real democracy. So I may take the advice of [bold]Traquir[/bold] and complain to press complaints, though I'm afraid it's unlikely to do any good.
Thanks [bold]Sean Connery for President[/bold] for posting the email. I'm lucky enough to be represented by Pete Wishart and when I listen to him in the commons it's good to hear him speak for those who elected him. By coincidence I woke this morning to find an email from Pet Planet about cat litter trays (lol, cheap shots? “Bring it on!”), none of which are large enough to hold the amount of cr*p you've been treated to by your MP.
"This is a Unionist Government. That's why the Calman Commission was established to look at strengthening devolution.”
And I was just beginning to believe this government to be a “
Listening Government”.
"Wendy Alexander has taken a tactical decision...”
So it isn't about giving the people of Scotland an opportunity to be heard? Dear oh dear, Wendy must have got her wires crossed somewhere.
Harriet Harman, the Commons Leader, insisted the UK Government was not confused over the independence referendum issue and was strongly pro-Union.
Not confused, just angry that someone who has proven herself to be confused time and time again made a Scottish policy without first referring to London.
"SNP votes ushered in the Thatcher Government in 1979. Clearly, the Nationalist leopard hasn't changed its spots," (Jackie Baillie] insisted.
How comforting to know that while one Labour M(S)P is shrugging off responsibility for Labour party failings, another will soon be along to “ask” us to allow them to learn from their mistakes. Clearly the Labour dead sheep hasn't changed its... er... paint branding.
Sir Menzies Campbell was right to insist on
Question Time that the Labour party governs by headline, though he failed to mention the well greased sub-editors who write such misleading headlines as that to which we were treated yesterday. I stopped buying
The Herald sometime ago in disgust at a string of Douglas Fraser's more colourful stories and sadly it's done nothing in the meantime to win back my custom (though it still remains well above
The Hootsmon on the truth scale). As
George Alexander writes this is how lies begin, and that undermines a real democracy. So I may take the advice of
Traquir and complain to press complaints, though I'm afraid it's unlikely to do any good.
Thanks
Sean Connery for President for posting the email. I'm lucky enough to be represented by Pete Wishart and when I listen to him in the commons it's good to hear him speak for those who elected him. By coincidence I woke this morning to find an email from Pet Planet about cat litter trays (lol, cheap shots? “Bring it on!”), none of which are large enough to hold the amount of cr*p you've been treated to by your MP.
Posted by: Joe Middleton, Edinburgh, Scotland on 5:45am Sat 10 May 08
Abolish the Scotland office. It speaks for no-one and is completely irrelevant. A bit like old Empty Coat and his declarations of love for Britain!
Abolish the Scotland office. It speaks for no-one and is completely irrelevant. A bit like old Empty Coat and his declarations of love for Britain!
Posted by: Traquir, Alba on 6:12am Sat 10 May 08
Wendy's Newsnight Interview from Tuesday 6th is now
also available on you tube - see tinyurl.com/4x74z7
This is the one, if you are managing to keep
up with the plot, where Wendy asked whether
Gordon Brown fully supports her and has said so
to her directly answers YES. Next day of course
Gordon Brown disowns the whole thing in the
House Of Commons.
Contrast this with the Newsnight interview
with Alex Salmond on the 7th.
see - tinyurl.com/5poc5y
Scotland deserves so much better than what the "Scottish"
Labour Party has been serving up to Scotland for decades.
Wendy Alexander is billed as the most intelligent
of the lot of them so you can only wonder how bad the
others are.
Wendy's Newsnight Interview from Tuesday 6th is now
also available on you tube - see tinyurl.com/4x74z7
This is the one, if you are managing to keep
up with the plot, where Wendy asked whether
Gordon Brown fully supports her and has said so
to her directly answers YES. Next day of course
Gordon Brown disowns the whole thing in the
House Of Commons.
Contrast this with the Newsnight interview
with Alex Salmond on the 7th.
see - tinyurl.com/5poc5y
Scotland deserves so much better than what the "Scottish"
Labour Party has been serving up to Scotland for decades.
Wendy Alexander is billed as the most intelligent
of the lot of them so you can only wonder how bad the
others are.
Posted by: David Alexander on 6:17am Sat 10 May 08
Gordon Banks?
Mmm, he judged a school Christmas card competition in our area a couple of years ago, which he personally had organised.
After much huffing 'n' puffing about how hard it was to pick a winner as they were all so good, he was overheard at the end asking the winner's how his granny was after her operation.
How I smiled.
Gordon Banks?
Mmm, he judged a school Christmas card competition in our area a couple of years ago, which he personally had organised.
After much huffing 'n' puffing about how hard it was to pick a winner as they were all so good, he was overheard at the end asking the winner's how his granny was after her operation.
How I smiled.
Posted by: Donald Anderson, glasgow on 6:22am Sat 10 May 08
Wullie,
Broon would be better drapped aff in Gruinard than St Helena.
Better to die of Brit anthrax than lead poisoning from the Brit wallpaper.
Wullie,
Broon would be better drapped aff in Gruinard than St Helena.
Better to die of Brit anthrax than lead poisoning from the Brit wallpaper.
Posted by: ex labour voter, glasgow on 6:55am Sat 10 May 08
The human mountain of obesity who gorges as much food as it can stuff in its fat face at public expence pukes, the SNP votes ushered in the Thatcher Government in 1979. Clearly, the Nationalist leopard hasn't changed its spots," she insisted.
No one really cares what you have to say fatso.
Go and have yer set meal for 8, pig.
The human mountain of obesity who gorges as much food as it can stuff in its fat face at public expence pukes, the SNP votes ushered in the Thatcher Government in 1979. Clearly, the Nationalist leopard hasn't changed its spots," she insisted.
No one really cares what you have to say fatso.
Go and have yer set meal for 8, pig.
Posted by: pehman, sussex on 7:17am Sat 10 May 08
Let me get this right, des(perate) browne, is the defence sec, he has a wee side kick , cairns.
Neither wants to come on TV or make a statement in the press defending slab, or blab ?
Let me get this right, des(perate) browne, is the defence sec, he has a wee side kick , cairns.
Neither wants to come on TV or make a statement in the press defending slab, or blab ?
Posted by: Hamish McKropotkin, Bannockburn on 7:27am Sat 10 May 08
[quote][bold]george alexander[/bold] wrote:
Of course I should have pointed out that The Herald have used quotes based on their own lies. You see how this thing works? One starts a lie, the other uses the lie as 'proof' to support an accusation. The paper then quotes the politician making the accusation.........p retty soon the lie takes on a life of it's own and hey presto, you have the 'Trump' effect where the lie is used regularly in headlines. Remember where you read this first, 09 May 2008.........the day the lie grew legs. Watch out for 'the lie' doing the rounds of the usual suspects as the unionists desperately try to give it credence.[/quote] hey georgie-boy,
A nat wanting accuracy in language? Oh you are awful. And look at all your self-righteous indignation. It's a lie you say as if Mr Salmond is Simon Pure...I can just imagine your pursed lips and your tutting.
Get a life.
george alexander wrote:
Of course I should have pointed out that The Herald have used quotes based on their own lies. You see how this thing works? One starts a lie, the other uses the lie as 'proof' to support an accusation. The paper then quotes the politician making the accusation.........p retty soon the lie takes on a life of it's own and hey presto, you have the 'Trump' effect where the lie is used regularly in headlines. Remember where you read this first, 09 May 2008.........the day the lie grew legs. Watch out for 'the lie' doing the rounds of the usual suspects as the unionists desperately try to give it credence.
hey georgie-boy,
A nat wanting accuracy in language? Oh you are awful. And look at all your self-righteous indignation. It's a lie you say as if Mr Salmond is Simon Pure...I can just imagine your pursed lips and your tutting.
Get a life.
Posted by: Hamish McKropotkin, Bannockburn on 7:32am Sat 10 May 08
[quote][bold]ex labour voter[/bold] wrote:
The human mountain of obesity who gorges as much food as it can stuff in its fat face at public expence pukes, the SNP votes ushered in the Thatcher Government in 1979. Clearly, the Nationalist leopard hasn't changed its spots," she insisted. No one really cares what you have to say fatso. Go and have yer set meal for 8, pig. [/quote] Eck's Liar,
Charming post again from your good self. You manage to articulate like no other exactly what is going on in the minds of the SNP.
Behind all the good-guy have a laugh Mr Salmond stands the truly repellant and bitter ranks of the natz.
Thanks for reminding us all again what we'll get if we vote SNP - a shiny veneer with a black heart.
ex labour voter wrote:
The human mountain of obesity who gorges as much food as it can stuff in its fat face at public expence pukes, the SNP votes ushered in the Thatcher Government in 1979. Clearly, the Nationalist leopard hasn't changed its spots," she insisted. No one really cares what you have to say fatso. Go and have yer set meal for 8, pig.
Eck's Liar,
Charming post again from your good self. You manage to articulate like no other exactly what is going on in the minds of the SNP.
Behind all the good-guy have a laugh Mr Salmond stands the truly repellant and bitter ranks of the natz.
Thanks for reminding us all again what we'll get if we vote SNP - a shiny veneer with a black heart.
Posted by: Neil, Aberdeenshire on 7:48am Sat 10 May 08
And if we vote labour we get... what? A tarnished veneer with no heart. Or soul.
And if we vote labour we get... what? A tarnished veneer with no heart. Or soul.
Posted by: Old Tam, Glasgow on 7:57am Sat 10 May 08
[quote][bold]doonhamer[/bold] wrote:
If the YouGov Poll caused panic, don't show them the Populus Poll Interesting numbers in the recent YouGov and Populus polls. [bold]Populus Westminster Poll for the Times Scottish Results May 2-4 2008 (est. seats Electoral Calculus)[/bold] [quote]SNP 41 (43) Labour 25 (8) Conservatives 18 (3) LibDem 11 (5)[/quote] [bold]YouGov Westminster Poll for the Sun Scottish Results May 7-8 2008 (est. seats Electoral Calculus)[/bold] [quote]SNP 32 (23) Labour 26 (21) Conservatives 21 (7) LibDem 13 (8)[/quote] [bold]Average of both polls[/bold] [quote]SNP 36.5 (36) Labour 25.5 (11) Conservatives 19.5 (5) LibDem 12.0 (7)[/quote] [/quote] I'm not sure about the youGov stuff though - in a Scottish sample of 150 or so, did thay actually find 21% would vote tory ? Incredible - they must have conducted all the interviews in Morningside or Newton Mearns.
doonhamer wrote:
If the YouGov Poll caused panic, don't show them the Populus Poll Interesting numbers in the recent YouGov and Populus polls. Populus Westminster Poll for the Times Scottish Results May 2-4 2008 (est. seats Electoral Calculus) SNP 41 (43) Labour 25 (8) Conservatives 18 (3) LibDem 11 (5)
YouGov Westminster Poll for the Sun Scottish Results May 7-8 2008 (est. seats Electoral Calculus) SNP 32 (23) Labour 26 (21) Conservatives 21 (7) LibDem 13 (8)
Average of both polls SNP 36.5 (36) Labour 25.5 (11) Conservatives 19.5 (5) LibDem 12.0 (7)
I'm not sure about the youGov stuff though - in a Scottish sample of 150 or so, did thay actually find 21% would vote tory ? Incredible - they must have conducted all the interviews in Morningside or Newton Mearns.
Posted by: megz, glasgow on 7:58am Sat 10 May 08
[quote]Remember where you read this first, 09 May 2008.........the day the lie grew legs.[/quote]
here is the first leg that has grown, taken from the telegraph
http://tinyurl.com/5
uc6wj
[quote]Labour's Jackie Baillie also criticised the Nationalists for "cozying up" to the Tories after Alex Salmond, the First Minister, said he would seek common ground with David Cameron in the event of a Tory win at the next general election.
She said the SNP had chosen to forget the damage a Tory government had done to Scotland, adding: "Once again, Mr Salmond's comments expose the political opportunism of the SNP.
"This week the SNP have been running scared of the Scottish people by not having the guts to bring forward an independence referendum and end the constitutional uncertainty they have caused.
"The people of Scotland don't want to see another Tory government and they certainly won't approve of a First Minister who is prepared to give the Tories support."[/quote]
Anyone found the other leg yet?
Remember where you read this first, 09 May 2008.........the day the lie grew legs.
here is the first leg that has grown, taken from the telegraph
http://tinyurl.com/5
uc6wj
Labour's Jackie Baillie also criticised the Nationalists for "cozying up" to the Tories after Alex Salmond, the First Minister, said he would seek common ground with David Cameron in the event of a Tory win at the next general election.
She said the SNP had chosen to forget the damage a Tory government had done to Scotland, adding: "Once again, Mr Salmond's comments expose the political opportunism of the SNP.
"This week the SNP have been running scared of the Scottish people by not having the guts to bring forward an independence referendum and end the constitutional uncertainty they have caused.
"The people of Scotland don't want to see another Tory government and they certainly won't approve of a First Minister who is prepared to give the Tories support."
Anyone found the other leg yet?
Posted by: Rev. S. Campbell, Bath on 8:02am Sat 10 May 08
[italic]"SNP votes ushered in the Thatcher government of 1979"[/italic], you fat idiot?
1. Labour's treachery over devolution brought about the general election.
2. Thatcher won it in a landslide, and would have done so if not one single person voted SNP.
http://news.bbc.co.u
k/1/hi/uk_politics/v
ote_2005/basics/elec
tion4/past_elections
/4393311.stm
3. Would that be the same Margaret Thatcher that Blair and Brown both admire and respect, and invite to cosy fireside chats over tea and cakes at No.10?
"SNP votes ushered in the Thatcher government of 1979", you fat idiot?
1. Labour's treachery over devolution brought about the general election.
2. Thatcher won it in a landslide, and would have done so if not one single person voted SNP.
http://news.bbc.co.u
k/1/hi/uk_politics/v
ote_2005/basics/elec
tion4/past_elections
/4393311.stm
3. Would that be the same Margaret Thatcher that Blair and Brown both admire and respect, and invite to cosy fireside chats over tea and cakes at No.10?
Posted by: megz, glasgow on 8:07am Sat 10 May 08
[quote][bold]Neil[/bold] wrote:
And if we vote labour we get... what? A tarnished veneer with no heart. Or soul.[/quote] If we vote labour it won't make one tiny shred of difference. Can anyone tell me what good voting labour did during the thatcher era? Was there any? Considering the english have 10 times as many MPs as us it makes heehaw difference who we vote for. The only reason this 'alex salmond tory pact' lie is being peddled is to scare people into no voting for the snp or turn people against them.
Given the choice would Scots rather go back to the 'feeble fifty' that did nothing under thatcher or have independence and bypass reliving that history. In 2 years time we have a chance to right the wrongs of '79 (and i'm not talking about the lie that the SNP handed power to the tories) The future is in our hands and we have 2 options; living under tory rule (most likely) or independence what are you going to choose?
Neil wrote:
And if we vote labour we get... what? A tarnished veneer with no heart. Or soul.
If we vote labour it won't make one tiny shred of difference. Can anyone tell me what good voting labour did during the thatcher era? Was there any? Considering the english have 10 times as many MPs as us it makes heehaw difference who we vote for. The only reason this 'alex salmond tory pact' lie is being peddled is to scare people into no voting for the snp or turn people against them.
Given the choice would Scots rather go back to the 'feeble fifty' that did nothing under thatcher or have independence and bypass reliving that history. In 2 years time we have a chance to right the wrongs of '79 (and i'm not talking about the lie that the SNP handed power to the tories) The future is in our hands and we have 2 options; living under tory rule (most likely) or independence what are you going to choose?
Posted by: Dave, Livi Village on 8:15am Sat 10 May 08
Jackie,
the Calman revue is a current example of New Labour cozying up to the Tories (and the whaddayalallums).
Gordon Brown blatantly lied at PMQ about the SNP government's manifesto for the Scottish Parliament. Why? and what is being done about it?
Can someone explain the legal situation where Gordon Brown can vote in the London mayoral election? Can
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