Solicitor-General condemns current Act of Succession
Pressure on Gordon Brown to change a 301-year-old law that discriminates against Roman Catholics intensified from within his own government last night after Vera Baird, the Solicitor-General, condemned the
legislation outright while the
Conservatives called for a
consultation document.
The UK Government's planned Single Equality Bill will propose to lift the ban,
set down in the 1701 Act of
Settlement, on a Catholic becoming the monarch or a monarch marrying a Catholic.
Ms Baird also made it clear ministers wanted to guarantee succession rights of females
to the throne, which she described as "unfair and a load of rubbish".
She added: "I have always thought that what we have to do with the royal family is integrate them as far as possible into the human race."
She added: "The ban on Catholics should be abolished because it is discriminatory."
The Single Equality Bill will unify existing laws on sex
discrimination, age, race,
disability, sexual orientation and religion. A draft is due to be published later this year.
Last month, the issue of the Catholics ban hit the head-
lines after it was raised by Jack Straw, Westminster's Justice Secretary, during a debate on constitutional reform.
Prefacing his remarks with the intriguing phrase "I speak on behalf of the Prime Minister", Mr Straw told MPs: "Because of the position Her Majesty occupies as head of the Anglican Church, it is rather more complicated than maybe anticipated, but we are certainly ready to consider this.
"I fully understand that it is seen as something which is antiquated."
However, just 24 hours after Mr Straw's remarks, No 10 emphasised the obstacles to changing the law, includ-
ing how the monarch was head of the Anglican Church not just in Britain but across the world.
This point was echoed
yesterday by Nick Herbert,
Mr Straw's Conservative shadow, suggesting a future Tory government might well steer clear of the subject.
While accepting there was
a "strong case for giving female heirs to the throne equal rights to succession",
he noted: "Lifting the pro-
hibition on heirs to the
throne from marrying Catholics is not straightforward as it raises broader issues relating to the Established Church."
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Posted by: tris, scotland on 9:15pm Sun 20 Apr 08
What a load of trivia our ministers occupy themsleves with while the country goes to hell in a handcart.
What a load of trivia our ministers occupy themsleves with while the country goes to hell in a handcart.
Posted by: nostress, grangemouth on 9:36pm Sun 20 Apr 08
"I have always thought that what we have to do with the royal family is integrate them as far as possible into the human race." - Vera Baird, solicitor general, England.
Eh? What can she mean? Does she subscribe to Icke's views that they're really alien lizards after all...
"I have always thought that what we have to do with the royal family is integrate them as far as possible into the human race." - Vera Baird, solicitor general, England.
Eh? What can she mean? Does she subscribe to Icke's views that they're really alien lizards after all...
Posted by: nostress, grangemouth on 9:38pm Sun 20 Apr 08
.....or just that they're Germans and it's always been a bit tough integrating them into the human race?
.....or just that they're Germans and it's always been a bit tough integrating them into the human race?
Posted by: Buchan Loon, Aberdeenshire on 9:48pm Sun 20 Apr 08
Eh? Just whose Solicitor General would this be?
Eh? Just whose Solicitor General would this be?
Posted by: Wullie, Aberdeen on 10:22pm Sun 20 Apr 08
All my friends down at my local club where I play dominoes are always coming up to me and asking why hasn't liebour lifted the wretched ban, set down in the 1701 Act of Settlement, on a Catholic becoming the monarch or a monarch marrying a Catholic.
Aye, its the talk of the town.
All my friends down at my local club where I play dominoes are always coming up to me and asking why hasn't liebour lifted the wretched ban, set down in the 1701 Act of Settlement, on a Catholic becoming the monarch or a monarch marrying a Catholic.
Aye, its the talk of the town.
Posted by: Graham, Larbert on 10:37pm Sun 20 Apr 08
Read the story and read it deep, then think again.
Oops, wonder what brought this story to the front of the news on a Sunday in the 21st centuary ?
Jack Straw, has of course been put up to this.
On his way up and out of politics, ( to grass ) and pensioned off to the Lords.
I'll leave it to others to shout me down on this.
Read the story and read it deep, then think again.
Oops, wonder what brought this story to the front of the news on a Sunday in the 21st centuary ?
Jack Straw, has of course been put up to this.
On his way up and out of politics, ( to grass ) and pensioned off to the Lords.
I'll leave it to others to shout me down on this.
Posted by: Colin B, Bearsden on 12:48am Mon 21 Apr 08
Vera Baird is a nutcase and a very ugly one at that. She and her predecessor Harriet Harman shoud, spend more time getting public protection, victims rights and sentencing consistency rather than being preoccupied as Labour MPs always are with political correctness.
Although neither are my religion I don't see how it can be fair a catholic can be head of the anglican church and not vice versa.
Vera Baird is a nutcase and a very ugly one at that. She and her predecessor Harriet Harman shoud, spend more time getting public protection, victims rights and sentencing consistency rather than being preoccupied as Labour MPs always are with political correctness.
Although neither are my religion I don't see how it can be fair a catholic can be head of the anglican church and not vice versa.
Posted by: Wullie, Aberdeen on 1:34am Mon 21 Apr 08
While Gordon Broon fiddles, Rome burns. 600.000 illegal immigrants coming into the country a year. When Turkey joins the European Union in couple of years, that means 80 million Turks will be able to live and work in Scotland. Gordon Broon better start building 80 million council houses for them. All those people who fought and died at the battle of Lepanto protecting Europe from the external threat, died in vain. On the bright side we might get some cheap Turkish delight chocolate from Constantinople I suppose.
''It is like watching a nation busily engaged in heaping up its own funeral pyre.''
While Gordon Broon fiddles, Rome burns. 600.000 illegal immigrants coming into the country a year. When Turkey joins the European Union in couple of years, that means 80 million Turks will be able to live and work in Scotland. Gordon Broon better start building 80 million council houses for them. All those people who fought and died at the battle of Lepanto protecting Europe from the external threat, died in vain. On the bright side we might get some cheap Turkish delight chocolate from Constantinople I suppose.
''It is like watching a nation busily engaged in heaping up its own funeral pyre.''
Posted by: Donald Anderson, glasgow on 7:00am Mon 21 Apr 08
Papes should be allowed to become London Labour Queens if they want to.
Papes should be allowed to become London Labour Queens if they want to.
Posted by: wxalexander, canada on 7:02am Mon 21 Apr 08
Turkey will never get into the EU because most of the countries in the EU are catholic or Russian orthodox and under advice from Rome and the headquarters of the Russian orthodox church will vote against the admission of Turkey. ( England is catholic with no pope) But if Turkey got into the EU, then we have the situation where not only catholics but also muslims, sikh and other denominations would have to be considered. On this basis, it seems unlikely that the act of settlement will be changed. On the other hand, perhaps with the new labour nut cases in charge things may change,
Turkey will never get into the EU because most of the countries in the EU are catholic or Russian orthodox and under advice from Rome and the headquarters of the Russian orthodox church will vote against the admission of Turkey. ( England is catholic with no pope) But if Turkey got into the EU, then we have the situation where not only catholics but also muslims, sikh and other denominations would have to be considered. On this basis, it seems unlikely that the act of settlement will be changed. On the other hand, perhaps with the new labour nut cases in charge things may change,
Posted by: megz, glasgow on 9:27am Mon 21 Apr 08
The act itself is sectarian in nature, take it to the european court of human rights, it should have been overturned decades ago. The prime minister can't be catholic either, is there any law that says he can't be black, chinese, jewish or satan worshipper it is discrimination plain and simple??
The act itself is sectarian in nature, take it to the european court of human rights, it should have been overturned decades ago. The prime minister can't be catholic either, is there any law that says he can't be black, chinese, jewish or satan worshipper it is discrimination plain and simple??
Posted by: Lachlan, Stirling on 9:54am Mon 21 Apr 08
Many are unaware that if your are a member of the Church of Scotland, or any other Presbyterian church in Great Britain or Northern Ireland, you cannot marry the heir to the throne of England, unless of course, you agree to convert to the established Church of England?
The only Protestant Church members in Great Britain who are automatically allowed to marry into the English Royal family are Anglicans, the Church in Wales, or members of the Scottish Episcopal Church, yet members of the established Church of Scotland are disbarred because the Act of Settlement specifically excludes Presbyterians, Baptists, Congregationalists, etc, even although they are members of a Protestant churches!
Technically, any member of the Church of Ireland, which covers ALL the Island of Ireland, and is in communion with the Church of England, could marry into the English Royal family.
The anomaly exists whereby a member of the worldwide Anglican
Community, including the Church of Ireland, and who is also a citizen of the Republic of Ireland, would fit the criteria required to marry into the English Royal family!
Many are unaware that if your are a member of the Church of Scotland, or any other Presbyterian church in Great Britain or Northern Ireland, you cannot marry the heir to the throne of England, unless of course, you agree to convert to the established Church of England?
The only Protestant Church members in Great Britain who are automatically allowed to marry into the English Royal family are Anglicans, the Church in Wales, or members of the Scottish Episcopal Church, yet members of the established Church of Scotland are disbarred because the Act of Settlement specifically excludes Presbyterians, Baptists, Congregationalists, etc, even although they are members of a Protestant churches!
Technically, any member of the Church of Ireland, which covers ALL the Island of Ireland, and is in communion with the Church of England, could marry into the English Royal family.
The anomaly exists whereby a member of the worldwide Anglican
Community, including the Church of Ireland, and who is also a citizen of the Republic of Ireland, would fit the criteria required to marry into the English Royal family!
Posted by: Toophingers, Bellshill. on 11:54am Mon 21 Apr 08
Lets take this chance to dispel the blue blood myth.
Prince Philip of Greece's mother was one hundred per cent German, his father of Russian-Danish descent. The Queen is part German through her paternal descent.
Many a snotty nosed, backside-out- of-trousers urchin running about the slums of British cities is more pure blooded than this lot.
Lets take this chance to dispel the blue blood myth.
Prince Philip of Greece's mother was one hundred per cent German, his father of Russian-Danish descent. The Queen is part German through her paternal descent.
Many a snotty nosed, backside-out- of-trousers urchin running about the slums of British cities is more pure blooded than this lot.
Posted by: Im no really here, but over there on 3:59pm Mon 21 Apr 08
[quote]The UK Government's planned Single Equality Bill will propose to lift the ban, set down in the 1701 Act of Settlement, on a Catholic becoming the monarch or a monarch marrying a Catholic.
[/quote] I think this is a sneaky plan to first get Tony Blair President of Europe, then King of Engerland. (Sir Ek is already King here!!!)
The UK Government's planned Single Equality Bill will propose to lift the ban, set down in the 1701 Act of Settlement, on a Catholic becoming the monarch or a monarch marrying a Catholic.
I think this is a sneaky plan to first get Tony Blair President of Europe, then King of Engerland. (Sir Ek is already King here!!!)
Posted by: Im no really here, but over there on 4:05pm Mon 21 Apr 08
[quote][bold]Toophingers[/bold] wrote:
Lets take this chance to dispel the blue blood myth. Prince Philip of Greece's mother was one hundred per cent German, his father of Russian-Danish descent. The Queen is part German through her paternal descent. Many a snotty nosed, backside-out- of-trousers urchin running about the slums of British cities is more pure blooded than this lot.[/quote] Quite right. Remember that the Monarchy changed its name during WW1 in order for it to sound less German. It was also, quite rightly, pointed out that Princess Diana had more Royal blood in her than ANY of the "Windors".
Toophingers wrote:
Lets take this chance to dispel the blue blood myth. Prince Philip of Greece's mother was one hundred per cent German, his father of Russian-Danish descent. The Queen is part German through her paternal descent. Many a snotty nosed, backside-out- of-trousers urchin running about the slums of British cities is more pure blooded than this lot.
Quite right. Remember that the Monarchy changed its name during WW1 in order for it to sound less German. It was also, quite rightly, pointed out that Princess Diana had more Royal blood in her than ANY of the "Windors".
Posted by: Im no really here, but over there on 4:12pm Mon 21 Apr 08
I take it that the Single Equality Bill also opens the door to a Muslim or a Hari Krishna becoming King. Being head of the Anglican Church should be no problem as that organisation will probably install an Imam as the next Archbishop of Canterbury in order not to offend Muslims - mind you, it will have to be a homosexual Imam.
I take it that the Single Equality Bill also opens the door to a Muslim or a Hari Krishna becoming King. Being head of the Anglican Church should be no problem as that organisation will probably install an Imam as the next Archbishop of Canterbury in order not to offend Muslims - mind you, it will have to be a homosexual Imam.
Posted by: Im no really here, but over there on 4:23pm Mon 21 Apr 08
Pressure is also on Gordon Brown to change another 301 year-old Act which is discriminatory against Scots. [quote]"I fully understand that it is seen as something which is antiquated."[/quote]
Pressure is also on Gordon Brown to change another 301 year-old Act which is discriminatory against Scots.
"I fully understand that it is seen as something which is antiquated."
Posted by: Im no really here, but over there on 5:01pm Mon 21 Apr 08
Pressure is also on Gordon Brown to change another 301 year-old Act which is discriminatory against Scots. [quote]"I fully understand that it is seen as something which is antiquated."[/quote]
Pressure is also on Gordon Brown to change another 301 year-old Act which is discriminatory against Scots.
"I fully understand that it is seen as something which is antiquated."
Posted by: Scunnert, Travelling in Nihlon on 5:14pm Mon 21 Apr 08
Why not just scrap the whole anachronistic nonsense until and unless I, or any other Scot, can be proclaimed king? I can look down my nose with the best of 'em, I'm pretty good at waving from the back seat of a limousine, and I can trace my ancestors back to my great grand daddy - which is probably further than the lot we have installed now. In addition, having no affiliation to any religion my crowning would neither be seen as exclusive nor offensive. Moreover, having only daughters should please the feminazis as it ensures one of their own is guaranteed the succession.
Aye - King Scunnert the First ae Scotland - it has a certain "je ne se qua" does it no?
Why not just scrap the whole anachronistic nonsense until and unless I, or any other Scot, can be proclaimed king? I can look down my nose with the best of 'em, I'm pretty good at waving from the back seat of a limousine, and I can trace my ancestors back to my great grand daddy - which is probably further than the lot we have installed now. In addition, having no affiliation to any religion my crowning would neither be seen as exclusive nor offensive. Moreover, having only daughters should please the feminazis as it ensures one of their own is guaranteed the succession.
Aye - King Scunnert the First ae Scotland - it has a certain "je ne se qua" does it no?
Posted by: Wallace, Perth on 5:46pm Mon 21 Apr 08
As a teenager I was "confirmed" as a communicant member of the Church of Scotland, mainly because it's what my parents wanted.
Since then, I have grown by experience and hopefully with the increasing wisdom(?) of old age, to develop a distrust of organised religions of whatever stripe. From the historic religious wars in Europe, to the Christian-Muslim conflicts in various areas of the world, through the almost universal anti-semitism, to the present day religious intolerance in places like Northern Ireland and the Islamic extremist intolerance of anyone who disagrees with their blinkered viewpoint, my opinion has grown to be "a plague on all their houses!"
I regard the so-called "established Church of England" as an artificial organisation created by Henry VIII of England in a fit of pique because the then Pope refused to grant him [bold]another[/bold] divorce or annulment of an inconvenient marriage, demanded by him for purely dynastic reasons.
So, does it really matter who or what is the head of the Church of England, which by virtue of its refusal to even share communion with fellow protestant churches such as the Church of Scotland, proves itself to be both racist and unchristian?
Personally, I hope the anachronistic and irrelevant Act of Settlement is repealed, because I will be interested to see how this affects the opinions of members of such organisations as the Orange Lodge, as it will present them with the choice of loyalty to a potentially RC monarch, or an independent Republic of Scotland.
As a teenager I was "confirmed" as a communicant member of the Church of Scotland, mainly because it's what my parents wanted.
Since then, I have grown by experience and hopefully with the increasing wisdom(?) of old age, to develop a distrust of organised religions of whatever stripe. From the historic religious wars in Europe, to the Christian-Muslim conflicts in various areas of the world, through the almost universal anti-semitism, to the present day religious intolerance in places like Northern Ireland and the Islamic extremist intolerance of anyone who disagrees with their blinkered viewpoint, my opinion has grown to be "a plague on all their houses!"
I regard the so-called "established Church of England" as an artificial organisation created by Henry VIII of England in a fit of pique because the then Pope refused to grant him
another divorce or annulment of an inconvenient marriage, demanded by him for purely dynastic reasons.
So, does it really matter who or what is the head of the Church of England, which by virtue of its refusal to even share communion with fellow protestant churches such as the Church of Scotland, proves itself to be both racist and unchristian?
Personally, I hope the anachronistic and irrelevant Act of Settlement is repealed, because I will be interested to see how this affects the opinions of members of such organisations as the Orange Lodge, as it will present them with the choice of loyalty to a potentially RC monarch, or an independent Republic of Scotland.
Posted by: allymax, yuk on 5:48pm Mon 21 Apr 08
Vera Baird, sounds very plain, is she? The house of lords is looking very feminist now, very radical feminist now.
Now who lives in this house?
Let's look at the clues; radical feminist solicitor-general vera baird, radical feminist lord advocate helish angiolini, radical feminist lords peer baroneess scotland, radical feminist womens minster hrlot harm-men, Mmm, now who do you think lives in a house like this?
Vera Baird, sounds very plain, is she? The house of lords is looking very feminist now, very radical feminist now.
Now who lives in this house?
Let's look at the clues; radical feminist solicitor-general vera baird, radical feminist lord advocate helish angiolini, radical feminist lords peer baroneess scotland, radical feminist womens minster hrlot harm-men, Mmm, now who do you think lives in a house like this?
Posted by: stevie, glasgow on 5:52pm Mon 21 Apr 08
[quote][bold]Wullie[/bold] wrote:
All my friends down at my local club where I play dominoes are always coming up to me and asking why hasn't liebour lifted the wretched ban, set down in the 1701 Act of Settlement, on a Catholic becoming the monarch or a monarch marrying a Catholic.
Aye, its the talk of the town. [/quote] Would that be your local Masonic club Wullie?.
Wullie wrote:
All my friends down at my local club where I play dominoes are always coming up to me and asking why hasn't liebour lifted the wretched ban, set down in the 1701 Act of Settlement, on a Catholic becoming the monarch or a monarch marrying a Catholic.
Aye, its the talk of the town.
Would that be your local Masonic club Wullie?.
Posted by: Observer, Glasgow on 7:25pm Mon 21 Apr 08
''feminazis'' Scunnert ? Tut tut. If we didn't have a monarchy or an ''established'' church we wouldn't have any of this nonsense either.
''feminazis'' Scunnert ? Tut tut. If we didn't have a monarchy or an ''established'' church we wouldn't have any of this nonsense either.
Posted by: sam, Prestonpans on 7:27pm Mon 21 Apr 08
[quote][bold]Donald Anderson[/bold] wrote:
Papes should be allowed to become London Labour Queens if they want to.[/quote] Donald,
Do you mean like David Cairns?
Donald Anderson wrote:
Papes should be allowed to become London Labour Queens if they want to.
Donald,
Do you mean like David Cairns?
Posted by: Dave, Away on 10:03pm Mon 21 Apr 08
Sadly, my present convictions wouldn't allow me to marry into the Royal Family.....(I think I'm about 65th million in line to the Throne, but under the current rules, I'd have to abdicate in favour of # 65 million and one :-) )
I have a solution for Scotland, though:
WENDY FOR QUEEN OF SCOTLAND AND THE ISLES!!!
Sadly, my present convictions wouldn't allow me to marry into the Royal Family.....(I think I'm about 65th million in line to the Throne, but under the current rules, I'd have to abdicate in favour of # 65 million and one :-) )
I have a solution for Scotland, though:
WENDY FOR QUEEN OF SCOTLAND AND THE ISLES!!!
Posted by: Dave, Away on 10:05pm Mon 21 Apr 08
[quote][bold]allymax[/bold] wrote:
Vera Baird, sounds very plain, is she? The house of lords is looking very feminist now, very radical feminist now. Now who lives in this house? Let's look at the clues; radical feminist solicitor-general vera baird, radical feminist lord advocate helish angiolini, radical feminist lords peer baroneess scotland, radical feminist womens minster hrlot harm-men, Mmm, now who do you think lives in a house like this?[/quote] Is that why Emperor Antony is having it shut down?
allymax wrote:
Vera Baird, sounds very plain, is she? The house of lords is looking very feminist now, very radical feminist now. Now who lives in this house? Let's look at the clues; radical feminist solicitor-general vera baird, radical feminist lord advocate helish angiolini, radical feminist lords peer baroneess scotland, radical feminist womens minster hrlot harm-men, Mmm, now who do you think lives in a house like this?
Is that why Emperor Antony is having it shut down?
Posted by: Wullie, Aberdeen on 12:24am Tue 22 Apr 08
[quote][bold]stevie[/bold] wrote:
[quote][bold]Wullie[/bold] wrote:
All my friends down at my local club where I play dominoes are always coming up to me and asking why hasn't liebour lifted the wretched ban, set down in the 1701 Act of Settlement, on a Catholic becoming the monarch or a monarch marrying a Catholic.
Aye, its the talk of the town. [/quote] Would that be your local Masonic club Wullie?.[/quote] Nah Stevie, my arch nemesis.
Its my local islamic, jihadist club.
stevie wrote:
Wullie wrote:
All my friends down at my local club where I play dominoes are always coming up to me and asking why hasn't liebour lifted the wretched ban, set down in the 1701 Act of Settlement, on a Catholic becoming the monarch or a monarch marrying a Catholic.
Aye, its the talk of the town.
Would that be your local Masonic club Wullie?.
Nah Stevie, my arch nemesis.
Its my local islamic, jihadist club.
Posted by: Mac2, Geordieland on 12:53pm Fri 25 Apr 08
The Times, internationally distributed throughout the world, and many other international publications, reported the Prince of Wales stating on 6th November 1995, that Catholics should be able to ascend to the British throne. He made the remarks to Tony Blair and Paddy Ashdown after the funeral of Israeli premier Yitzhak Rabin. Mr. Ashdown claims the Prince said: Quote: "I really can't think why we can't have Catholics on the throne."
At this meeting of international world leaders from eighty nations, the Prince of Wales officially represented the British Head of State, along-side Conservative Prime Minister John Major, Labor Opposition leader Tony Blair and the Liberal Leader Paddy Ashdown. This meeting of Presidents, Kings, Prime Ministers, Chancellors and Ambassadors included the leaders from most Commonwealth countries, the European Commission: President and Director-General and leaders of the majority of EU countries, the French President, German President and Chancellor, UN Secretary-General Boutros-Ghali, President and former Presidents; Clinton, Bush and Carter, Secretary and former Secretaries of State, House of Representatives and Senate Majority and Minority Leaders.
PS. The German-Catholic Jacobite claimant was only created 15/12/2003 by David Newton on Wikepedia, and his credentials?were evolved by 2 un-named Germans and a Canadian, then promoted in the British media as facts???????
The Times, internationally distributed throughout the world, and many other international publications, reported the Prince of Wales stating on 6th November 1995, that Catholics should be able to ascend to the British throne. He made the remarks to Tony Blair and Paddy Ashdown after the funeral of Israeli premier Yitzhak Rabin. Mr. Ashdown claims the Prince said: Quote: "I really can't think why we can't have Catholics on the throne."
At this meeting of international world leaders from eighty nations, the Prince of Wales officially represented the British Head of State, along-side Conservative Prime Minister John Major, Labor Opposition leader Tony Blair and the Liberal Leader Paddy Ashdown. This meeting of Presidents, Kings, Prime Ministers, Chancellors and Ambassadors included the leaders from most Commonwealth countries, the European Commission: President and Director-General and leaders of the majority of EU countries, the French President, German President and Chancellor, UN Secretary-General Boutros-Ghali, President and former Presidents; Clinton, Bush and Carter, Secretary and former Secretaries of State, House of Representatives and Senate Majority and Minority Leaders.
PS. The German-Catholic Jacobite claimant was only created 15/12/2003 by David Newton on Wikepedia, and his credentials?were evolved by 2 un-named Germans and a Canadian, then promoted in the British media as facts???????
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