Salmond ‘starting to win the argument for Scots independence’
First Minister Alex Salmond returns to the political fray this week after the Easter break buoyed by another poll that suggests he may be gradually winning the argument for independence.
The latest tracker poll by TNS System Three suggests a narrow majority in favour of independence by 41% to 40% over those who would prefer to remain in the UK, but, as in the case of another poll last week, it is the trend that tells the real story.
Mr Salmond will believe that he is on a winning track, allowing rows to bubble up with the Treasury or Scotland Office - fights as often picked by Westminster rather than Holyrood - and then portraying Scotland as being "bullied" by London.
Whatever the reason, and despite recent spats over local income tax or council spending, it may also be that Scots in general think the SNP is making a decent fist of running a government. The point about the TNS polls is that they now show a trend.
They have asked the question a Salmond government would wish to put to a referendum in 2010, a straight yes or no to the proposition: "The Scottish Government should negotiate a settlement with the government of the UK so that Scotland becomes an independent state."
Commissioned by the the Sunday Herald, the first poll last August showed 50:35
support for the Union over independence. By November that had narrowed from 15 points to just four, 44:40.
Now the latest poll, conducted in the last days of March and the beginning of April puts independence support ahead.
Last week there was a similar trend in a second snapshot by Scottish Opinion. Last August, support for the Union led by 18 points, a 49:31 lead, but by this months that had narrowed to just two points, 43:41.
Mr Salmond claimed the actions of the Westminster "bullies" would only increase calls for independence, adding: "The more Westminster tries to lay down the law north of the Border in clearly devolved areas, the greater the support there will be for independence and equality for Scotland.
"Bullies always get their comeuppance, and the reaction to this behaviour from London will be no different. Whoever is running London Labour's campaign of aggression against the Scottish Government, one thing is clear - it isn't anyone based in Scotland, or with a scintilla of understanding of Scotland."
Mr Salmond also used a newspaper article to state the case for independence, saying: "In opposing independence, the unionist parties demonstrate a poverty of vision for Scotland, forever relegating Scotland to a parochial role as part of an unequal Union."
But Labour leader Wendy Alexander insisted a "steady majority" of Scots rejected independence. She argued that Scotland still benefited from the Union and the co-operation that it brought between the countries.
And she said "all the available evidence" indicated that even at times when oil prices were high an independent Scotland would struggle to maintain existing levels of public services.
Ms Alexander stated: "The people of Scotland know that in any partnership there will be good times and bad times and when one partner is down, the others reach out a helping hand.
"Throughout the three centuries of the United Kingdom partnership, this has been the case and the reason why it has survived and prospered."
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Posted by: Karin, glasgae. on 10:19pm Sun 13 Apr 08
oh i see maggie thatcher was reaching out a helping hand when she shut our shipyards nicked our milk and foisted the poll tax on us first.
labour were reaching out a helping hand when they parked trident in our front garden and gave us the highest fuel cost in europe. yeah fantastic helping. wendy knows about helping hands she gets them from jersey in the form of 995 quid.
oh i see maggie thatcher was reaching out a helping hand when she shut our shipyards nicked our milk and foisted the poll tax on us first.
labour were reaching out a helping hand when they parked trident in our front garden and gave us the highest fuel cost in europe. yeah fantastic helping. wendy knows about helping hands she gets them from jersey in the form of 995 quid.
Posted by: Karin, glasgae. on 10:20pm Sun 13 Apr 08
yay go alex you tell them he is 100 percent right.
yay go alex you tell them he is 100 percent right.
Posted by: Luigi, Aberdeen on 10:39pm Sun 13 Apr 08
Salmond is winning the argument hands down because, for all their bluster and scare-mongering, Broon and co have yet to put forward a feasible, constructive case for preserving the union.
Salmond is winning the argument hands down because, for all their bluster and scare-mongering, Broon and co have yet to put forward a feasible, constructive case for preserving the union.
Posted by: Jimbo on 10:44pm Sun 13 Apr 08
Hi Luigi,
I posted this on Scotsgait tinyurl.com/6bjsxw
This poll result is mainly due to the excellent governance of the SNP administration, though some credit must be accorded to New Labour politicians for the part they have played in assisting the SNP to increase their popularity.
Labour have only themselves to blame for the straits they now find themselves in. Labour in Scotland have no policies other than 'bring down the SNP' and 'at all costs stay on the gravy train'.
They have nothing to offer the people. They are bereft of ideas, offer no prospects or policies of hope for a better Scotland.
On the contrary we have Scottish Labour politicians, with the exception of Wendy, who's disappeared again, leap-frogging over each other in their frantic efforts to hold Scotland back. The Treasury is with-holding £1.2 billion of Scotland's money but not one Scottish Labour politician has condemned this.
They have no argument for retaining the Union so they resort to the old tried and trusted methods of lies, misinformation, negativity and fear over hope. They don't say 'vote for us for a better future'. They say 'if you don't vote for us the sky will fall on you'.
Fortunately for the Scottish people, Labour's credibility is now shot to pieces and their scare-mongering is now, by and large, laughed off.
Hi Luigi,
I posted this on Scotsgait tinyurl.com/6bjsxw
This poll result is mainly due to the excellent governance of the SNP administration, though some credit must be accorded to New Labour politicians for the part they have played in assisting the SNP to increase their popularity.
Labour have only themselves to blame for the straits they now find themselves in. Labour in Scotland have no policies other than 'bring down the SNP' and 'at all costs stay on the gravy train'.
They have nothing to offer the people. They are bereft of ideas, offer no prospects or policies of hope for a better Scotland.
On the contrary we have Scottish Labour politicians, with the exception of Wendy, who's disappeared again, leap-frogging over each other in their frantic efforts to hold Scotland back. The Treasury is with-holding £1.2 billion of Scotland's money but not one Scottish Labour politician has condemned this.
They have no argument for retaining the Union so they resort to the old tried and trusted methods of lies, misinformation, negativity and fear over hope. They don't say 'vote for us for a better future'. They say 'if you don't vote for us the sky will fall on you'.
Fortunately for the Scottish people, Labour's credibility is now shot to pieces and their scare-mongering is now, by and large, laughed off.
Posted by: Karin, glasgae. on 10:51pm Sun 13 Apr 08
jimbo I totally agree. by the way excellent reporting by mr dinwoodie.
very fair and truthfull reporting gives both sides and mentions that this shows a trend for independence.
well done robbie. the herald goes up in my estimation with this article.
jimbo I totally agree. by the way excellent reporting by mr dinwoodie.
very fair and truthfull reporting gives both sides and mentions that this shows a trend for independence.
well done robbie. the herald goes up in my estimation with this article.
Posted by: Karin, glasgae. on 10:53pm Sun 13 Apr 08
robbie the only thing you forgot to mention is that alex salmond said time and time again he would consider adding a third option of do you just want more powers for the scottihs parliament. its still a good article but even without that.
robbie the only thing you forgot to mention is that alex salmond said time and time again he would consider adding a third option of do you just want more powers for the scottihs parliament. its still a good article but even without that.
Posted by: Jimmy the Pie on 10:55pm Sun 13 Apr 08
Did anyone actually hear Red Wendy speaking??
She is very noticeable by her absence
Is she worried by Comrade Broon's slump in the polls?
Is she worried by all the mutterings from the back benches??
She should be - she's following Comrade Broon out the door
Did anyone actually hear Red Wendy speaking??
She is very noticeable by her absence
Is she worried by Comrade Broon's slump in the polls?
Is she worried by all the mutterings from the back benches??
She should be - she's following Comrade Broon out the door
Posted by: Oscar on 11:00pm Sun 13 Apr 08
[quote]"Ms Alexander stated: "The people of Scotland know that in any partnership there will be good times and bad times and when one partner is down, the others reach out a helping hand. Throughout the three centuries of the United Kingdom partnership, this has been the case and the reason why it has survived and prospered."[/quote]
Sad thing is the WENDY believes all this mince.
"Ms Alexander stated: "The people of Scotland know that in any partnership there will be good times and bad times and when one partner is down, the others reach out a helping hand. Throughout the three centuries of the United Kingdom partnership, this has been the case and the reason why it has survived and prospered."
Sad thing is the WENDY believes all this mince.
Posted by: Astonished, Inverclyde on 11:00pm Sun 13 Apr 08
Non - numpty headline "SNP is winning the battle for indepedence - much to the annoyance of Alf Young and Douglas Fraser".
The SNP must not be painted as a "one-man -band", we don't want to fall into this onionist (they make you greet!) trap. Mr Salmond is doing a great job, however he has a very fine bunch of MSPs behind him.
Karin - I am very wary of the Herald,if this is the beginning of telling the unvarnished truth then I am all for it. However I can't help thinking it is a less than subtle plot.
I admit this is pretty cynical - however it is no more than the Herald deserves.
Non - numpty headline "SNP is winning the battle for indepedence - much to the annoyance of Alf Young and Douglas Fraser".
The SNP must not be painted as a "one-man -band", we don't want to fall into this onionist (they make you greet!) trap. Mr Salmond is doing a great job, however he has a very fine bunch of MSPs behind him.
Karin - I am very wary of the Herald,if this is the beginning of telling the unvarnished truth then I am all for it. However I can't help thinking it is a less than subtle plot.
I admit this is pretty cynical - however it is no more than the Herald deserves.
Posted by: Alex Porter, Madrid on 11:03pm Sun 13 Apr 08
Is this the tipping point? Scots are turning to independence in droves. These latest recruits will be convincing their pals as well. Well, the unionists can's say that people don't want independence anymore can they? Clearly, they do.
The question that they have to answer is why they are suppressing the democratic right of the vast majority of Scots who want a referendum on the subject?
I think it is time for a campaign for a referendum?
Is this the tipping point? Scots are turning to independence in droves. These latest recruits will be convincing their pals as well. Well, the unionists can's say that people don't want independence anymore can they? Clearly, they do.
The question that they have to answer is why they are suppressing the democratic right of the vast majority of Scots who want a referendum on the subject?
I think it is time for a campaign for a referendum?
Posted by: Alex Porter, Madrid on 11:05pm Sun 13 Apr 08
Oh forgot.
Sign the 'Stop Brown Bullying Scotland' petition -
http://www.ipetition
s.com/petition/Stop_
funding_Labour/
Oh forgot.
Sign the 'Stop Brown Bullying Scotland' petition -
http://www.ipetition
s.com/petition/Stop_
funding_Labour/
Posted by: Beverley, Glasgow on 11:06pm Sun 13 Apr 08
Up until a few months ago i would never have contemplated voting for independance, however i now see that it could be the start of something wonderful. Mon' the referendum!
Up until a few months ago i would never have contemplated voting for independance, however i now see that it could be the start of something wonderful. Mon' the referendum!
Posted by: Karin, glasgae. on 11:11pm Sun 13 Apr 08
beverly thankyou for joining us it feels good to be part of something positive doesnt it.
beverly thankyou for joining us it feels good to be part of something positive doesnt it.
Posted by: Mrs I P Knightly, Scotland on 11:16pm Sun 13 Apr 08
tucked away in the Features -Comment section is an excellent article by Iain MacWhirter
http://www.theherald
.co.uk/features/feat
uresopinon/display.v
ar.2193552.0.Has_Bro
wn_sent_us_along_the
_road_to_independenc
e.php
tucked away in the Features -Comment section is an excellent article by Iain MacWhirter
http://www.theherald
.co.uk/features/feat
uresopinon/display.v
ar.2193552.0.Has_Bro
wn_sent_us_along_the
_road_to_independenc
e.php
Posted by: Colkitto, River Clyde on 11:24pm Sun 13 Apr 08
Brown and Alexander both unpopular with the polls. You would think they would take notice that they are an extremely unpopular duo.
Brown and Alexander both unpopular with the polls. You would think they would take notice that they are an extremely unpopular duo.
Posted by: nouveauxscum, Settle it on 11:25pm Sun 13 Apr 08
New Labour's attitude of grudge, grievance, gripe and girning is backfiring spectacularly.
They keep picking fights with the Scottish government and it's defeat followed by impending defeat. We are indeed blessed with Unionist ineptitude.
New Labour's attitude of grudge, grievance, gripe and girning is backfiring spectacularly.
They keep picking fights with the Scottish government and it's defeat followed by impending defeat. We are indeed blessed with Unionist ineptitude.
Posted by: Boggle fey the Bog, North Bank o' ra Clyde jist South o' ra Drum on 11:33pm Sun 13 Apr 08
Aye Wee Red Wendy comments that '"all the available evidence" indicated that even at times when oil prices were high an independent Scotland would struggle to maintain existing levels of public services.'
What 'available evidence' would that be then? The GERS report!
Sounds a bit like Jackie B's 'public domain E-mails' that prove Wee Red didnae dae it.
[italic][bold]Astonished, Inverclyde[/bold][/italic] on your observations on [bold][italic]'The Herald '[/italic][/bold] for what it's worth here's my twopence worth ;-)
As for the Herald, I've been a reader for years and was satisfied that they had a 'centre-left' bias, but in recent times I have been dismayed at their hostility towards Independence and the SNP in particular.
However, my view has been tempered recently, spurred on by The Sunday Herald coming out openly in support of the SNP just before last years election.
I've been further heartened by the writings of some of the Journo's with respect to them giving a 'balanced view' as in this story.
So I guess they are O.K. but still on 'probation' as it were.
Anyway, the coverage of Scottish events in The Herald is far superior to that other 'supposed' Quality? Scottish newspaper ower in Owld Reekie.
Refenda now for the EU and Scotlands Future
Aye Wee Red Wendy comments that '"all the available evidence" indicated that even at times when oil prices were high an independent Scotland would struggle to maintain existing levels of public services.'
What 'available evidence' would that be then? The GERS report!
Sounds a bit like Jackie B's 'public domain E-mails' that prove Wee Red didnae dae it.
Astonished, Inverclyde on your observations on
'The Herald ' for what it's worth here's my twopence worth ;-)
As for the Herald, I've been a reader for years and was satisfied that they had a 'centre-left' bias, but in recent times I have been dismayed at their hostility towards Independence and the SNP in particular.
However, my view has been tempered recently, spurred on by The Sunday Herald coming out openly in support of the SNP just before last years election.
I've been further heartened by the writings of some of the Journo's with respect to them giving a 'balanced view' as in this story.
So I guess they are O.K. but still on 'probation' as it were.
Anyway, the coverage of Scottish events in The Herald is far superior to that other 'supposed' Quality? Scottish newspaper ower in Owld Reekie.
Refenda now for the EU and Scotlands Future
Posted by: Beverley, Glasgow on 11:38pm Sun 13 Apr 08
[quote][bold]Karin[/bold] wrote:
beverly thankyou for joining us it feels good to be part of something positive doesnt it. [/quote] It sure does Karin. Scotland can one day be what we, the people of Scotland, want it to be. The first step is independance and then we can start to improve the lives of everyone here. No bad feelings towards others in the UK, just everyone working together to improve the lives of everyone for generations to come. Maybe some will see us as rats deserting the sinking ship, but i suspect that might be jealousy on their part.
Karin wrote:
beverly thankyou for joining us it feels good to be part of something positive doesnt it.
It sure does Karin. Scotland can one day be what we, the people of Scotland, want it to be. The first step is independance and then we can start to improve the lives of everyone here. No bad feelings towards others in the UK, just everyone working together to improve the lives of everyone for generations to come. Maybe some will see us as rats deserting the sinking ship, but i suspect that might be jealousy on their part.
Posted by: Jimbo on 11:38pm Sun 13 Apr 08
[quote]But Labour leader Wendy Alexander insisted a "steady majority" of Scots rejected independence. She argued that Scotland still benefited from the Union and the co-operation that it brought between the countries.[/quote]
Just like the last election, Labour are in denial.
[quote]And she said "all the available evidence" indicated that even at times when oil prices were high an independent Scotland would struggle to maintain existing levels of public services.[/quote]
And true to form, she can't bypass an opportunity to do some scare-mongering.
[quote]Ms Alexander stated: "The people of Scotland know that in any partnership there will be good times and bad times and when one partner is down, the others reach out a helping hand.[/quote]
Is this Wendy's backhanded way of saying that Westminster needs Scotland's oil to prop up their struggling economy?
[quote]"Throughout the three centuries of the United Kingdom partnership, this has been the case and the reason why it has survived and prospered."[/quote]
A partnership in which Scotland's people have never been asked if they wanted to be a part of.
Any views on vulnerable 2 year-olds suffering because their parents income tax has doubled Wendy?
Any views on vulnerable two year-olds picking up cluster bombs to put in their mouths Wendy?
Anything to say about the Westminster Treasury with-holding £1.2 billion of Scotland's money to the detriment of your fellow countrymen/women Wendy?
Do you only do Unionist rhetoric Wendy?
But Labour leader Wendy Alexander insisted a "steady majority" of Scots rejected independence. She argued that Scotland still benefited from the Union and the co-operation that it brought between the countries.
Just like the last election, Labour are in denial.
And she said "all the available evidence" indicated that even at times when oil prices were high an independent Scotland would struggle to maintain existing levels of public services.
And true to form, she can't bypass an opportunity to do some scare-mongering.
Ms Alexander stated: "The people of Scotland know that in any partnership there will be good times and bad times and when one partner is down, the others reach out a helping hand.
Is this Wendy's backhanded way of saying that Westminster needs Scotland's oil to prop up their struggling economy?
"Throughout the three centuries of the United Kingdom partnership, this has been the case and the reason why it has survived and prospered."
A partnership in which Scotland's people have never been asked if they wanted to be a part of.
Any views on vulnerable 2 year-olds suffering because their parents income tax has doubled Wendy?
Any views on vulnerable two year-olds picking up cluster bombs to put in their mouths Wendy?
Anything to say about the Westminster Treasury with-holding £1.2 billion of Scotland's money to the detriment of your fellow countrymen/women Wendy?
Do you only do Unionist rhetoric Wendy?
Posted by: subrosa on 11:45pm Sun 13 Apr 08
Fair article Mr Dunwoodie. Thanks.
Fair article Mr Dunwoodie. Thanks.
Posted by: HenMcStoorie, Port William on 11:50pm Sun 13 Apr 08
Good to see positive reporting for a change, and as such I think I will be buying the Herald hard copy.
When is Red Bendy going to admit that her place at the trough is slowly being eroded.
I predicted last week that the Lib Dums would slowly creep their way into coming onside, just watch the groveling at FMQs this week.
SNP.ORG....You know it makes sense!
Good to see positive reporting for a change, and as such I think I will be buying the Herald hard copy.
When is Red Bendy going to admit that her place at the trough is slowly being eroded.
I predicted last week that the Lib Dums would slowly creep their way into coming onside, just watch the groveling at FMQs this week.
SNP.ORG....You know it makes sense!
Posted by: Morag, Peeblesshire on 12:18am Mon 14 Apr 08
And just remember, all this has happened without a single newspaper or TV or radio station or indeed any media outlet at all in Scotland taking a positive line on independence.
We've been treated to all sorts of spin about "separatism", about how Scots don't really want independence, Labour disasters have been spun out of sight ("Wendy cleared") while SNP normal behaviour has been pilloried ("scent of sleaze...."). Every possible opportunity has been taken to cool our ardour. Ireland isn't doing quite so well as it was. Iceland has a few problems. OH NOES, SCOTLAND CAN NEVER BE FREE!!!! Give it a rest and come back when either of these countries is showing greater than 5% of its population wanting to rejoin in union with a former colonial power, why don't you?
Westminster intransigence has been spun as the SNP "picking fights". We've been told that nobody knows what independence means in this global economy anyway (really?, tell that to Estonia, Slovenia, Montenegro, Ireland, Iceland, Denmark, Switzerland and any actual independent state you like). We've been told yet again that the oil is about to run out and we've missed the boat. With of course no mention of the case for making d*mn sure we catch the next one. And so on.
And yet, in the face of all this, independence is overtaking the status quo!
Look at the potential readership if nothing else! The potential appetite for positive and optimistic reporting!
If we had a slice of that, I'd like to see where we'd be going.
And just remember, all this has happened without a single newspaper or TV or radio station or indeed any media outlet at all in Scotland taking a positive line on independence.
We've been treated to all sorts of spin about "separatism", about how Scots don't really want independence, Labour disasters have been spun out of sight ("Wendy cleared") while SNP normal behaviour has been pilloried ("scent of sleaze...."). Every possible opportunity has been taken to cool our ardour. Ireland isn't doing quite so well as it was. Iceland has a few problems. OH NOES, SCOTLAND CAN NEVER BE FREE!!!! Give it a rest and come back when either of these countries is showing greater than 5% of its population wanting to rejoin in union with a former colonial power, why don't you?
Westminster intransigence has been spun as the SNP "picking fights". We've been told that nobody knows what independence means in this global economy anyway (really?, tell that to Estonia, Slovenia, Montenegro, Ireland, Iceland, Denmark, Switzerland and any actual independent state you like). We've been told yet again that the oil is about to run out and we've missed the boat. With of course no mention of the case for making d*mn sure we catch the next one. And so on.
And yet, in the face of all this, independence is overtaking the status quo!
Look at the potential readership if nothing else! The potential appetite for positive and optimistic reporting!
If we had a slice of that, I'd like to see where we'd be going.
Posted by: Ronald, Glasgow on 12:27am Mon 14 Apr 08
What is so amusing is that the "verminuos duo", Herr Fraser and
Herr Young simple cannot yet bring themselves to write an article
which reflects well upon the SNP.
So, like that other "fiery socialist" Sister Wendy, our CRIMINAL IN
RESIDENCE at Hollyrood, they tend to do a runner from time to time
whenever a raft of positive storys have to be drafted. Kinda like the
NEW LABOUR CYBER-PIMPS who, for some reason known only to
themselves, were nowhere to be seen on the coments thread in
the SUNDAY HERALDS feature on NEW LABOURS ilegal Cluster-
BOMBS. Now, I'm not saying they are cowardly, despicable
animals but.................
...........
What is so amusing is that the "verminuos duo", Herr Fraser and
Herr Young simple cannot yet bring themselves to write an article
which reflects well upon the SNP.
So, like that other "fiery socialist" Sister Wendy, our CRIMINAL IN
RESIDENCE at Hollyrood, they tend to do a runner from time to time
whenever a raft of positive storys have to be drafted. Kinda like the
NEW LABOUR CYBER-PIMPS who, for some reason known only to
themselves, were nowhere to be seen on the coments thread in
the SUNDAY HERALDS feature on NEW LABOURS ilegal Cluster-
BOMBS. Now, I'm not saying they are cowardly, despicable
animals but.................
...........
Posted by: Karin, glasgae. on 12:29am Mon 14 Apr 08
morag you are quite right we have had all the scare stories and the oil is running out one is a cracker because when you ask okay what is westminster doing about that then the answer is you dont get an answer because its a lie.
morag you are quite right we have had all the scare stories and the oil is running out one is a cracker because when you ask okay what is westminster doing about that then the answer is you dont get an answer because its a lie.
Posted by: Los Angeles, Edinburgh on 12:30am Mon 14 Apr 08
[bold]Oh dearie me, dearie me. I see all this success leading to doom. Aye, Ah do, Ah do. Mark ma words well - tomorrow the skies will cloud ower, the light will glower, an' the great stag o' the glen will fa' aff its perch oan the tap af the cliff, doon the scree skintin' its knee, tae the rock pool ablo, water sae deep, gas in a peep, an' droon itseel. The winds o' change aye blow cauld. Oh, aye they do, they do. [/bold]
Oh dearie me, dearie me. I see all this success leading to doom. Aye, Ah do, Ah do. Mark ma words well - tomorrow the skies will cloud ower, the light will glower, an' the great stag o' the glen will fa' aff its perch oan the tap af the cliff, doon the scree skintin' its knee, tae the rock pool ablo, water sae deep, gas in a peep, an' droon itseel. The winds o' change aye blow cauld. Oh, aye they do, they do.
Posted by: Los Angeles, Edinburgh on 12:31am Mon 14 Apr 08
Good night, Scotland. I look forward to you cheery face tha' morrow!
Good night, Scotland. I look forward to you cheery face tha' morrow!
Posted by: Karin, glasgae. on 12:34am Mon 14 Apr 08
right ive figured out why we have the good reporting duggie fraser is obvviously on holiday no articles by him.
well done robbie he he send him on holiday more often even better get him sacked and hire pual hutcheon..
right ive figured out why we have the good reporting duggie fraser is obvviously on holiday no articles by him.
well done robbie he he send him on holiday more often even better get him sacked and hire pual hutcheon..
Posted by: Ronald, Glasgow on 12:37am Mon 14 Apr 08
Boggle fa the Bog - Your avin a larf right? You were "satisfied
that THE HERALD was a left of centre newspaper" WHAT !!!
Are you feckin bonkers!!! This is the filthy right wing rag that simply
adored that old animal Margaret Hida Thatcher, and all her works.
That insists we Scots must play host to Trident and its replacement,
and has been a chearleader for the bloody massacre that is Iraq.
Still not convinced? Then why pray tell would a left wing paper
shamelessly suport DAS NUE LABOUR PARTY?
Boggle fa the Bog - Your avin a larf right? You were "satisfied
that THE HERALD was a left of centre newspaper" WHAT !!!
Are you feckin bonkers!!! This is the filthy right wing rag that simply
adored that old animal Margaret Hida Thatcher, and all her works.
That insists we Scots must play host to Trident and its replacement,
and has been a chearleader for the bloody massacre that is Iraq.
Still not convinced? Then why pray tell would a left wing paper
shamelessly suport DAS NUE LABOUR PARTY?
Posted by: Kent, Edinburgh on 12:38am Mon 14 Apr 08
Agreed Morag, it’s quite remarkable given the hostility, lies and abuse that’s been directed at us from all sides.
Westminster and the Labour party have got it horribly wrong again, the lies and deceit don’t work and people are seeing through it.
Time for a referendum.
Agreed Morag, it’s quite remarkable given the hostility, lies and abuse that’s been directed at us from all sides.
Westminster and the Labour party have got it horribly wrong again, the lies and deceit don’t work and people are seeing through it.
Time for a referendum.
Posted by: Kadok, West End on 12:43am Mon 14 Apr 08
The irony is that all the Herald has to do is sack Alf Young, take a more optimistic view of Scotland, reflect the aspiration of its potential readership and it will thrive. It has the chance to become a truly national paper of Scotland but would prefer oblivion to giving independence a fair hearing. Both the Scotsman and Herald are doomed under their current editorial policies.
What is unforgivable for the Herald is that it is also in the main incredibly boring. I have not bought a paper copy in two years. It is turgid stuff.
Good journalists like MacWhirter, Bell and Dunwoodie need some help.
The irony is that all the Herald has to do is sack Alf Young, take a more optimistic view of Scotland, reflect the aspiration of its potential readership and it will thrive. It has the chance to become a truly national paper of Scotland but would prefer oblivion to giving independence a fair hearing. Both the Scotsman and Herald are doomed under their current editorial policies.
What is unforgivable for the Herald is that it is also in the main incredibly boring. I have not bought a paper copy in two years. It is turgid stuff.
Good journalists like MacWhirter, Bell and Dunwoodie need some help.
Posted by: Morag, Peeblesshire on 12:46am Mon 14 Apr 08
Can't we just get Murray Ritchie out of retirement? I'm sure the [italic]Scots Independent[/italic] can spare him for the cause.
Murray was always quite circumspect when he wrote for the [italic]Herald[/italic]. I remember wanting to give him a good shake just the way I sometimes want to shake Iain MacWhirter now. He published a great book on the referendum campaign ([italic]The Battle for Scotland[/italic]), and yet in that account it was his junior reporter, one R. Dinwoodie if I'm not mistaken, who is described as going completely nat-native, I'm pretty sure blue face paint was involved somewhere.
Then the good Mr. Ritchie retired, and guess what. He pops up in the [italic]Scots Independent[/italic] writing a column as a committed and convinced nationalist. Hey Murray, think what you could have achieved if you'd had the courage of those convictions when you had an actual job!
And now it's said R. Dinwoodie, older if not wiser, who is giving us the caution and the spin and the let's-not-be-hasty journalism.
Come back Murray, we want to hear from you.
Can't we just get Murray Ritchie out of retirement? I'm sure the
Scots Independent can spare him for the cause.
Murray was always quite circumspect when he wrote for the
Herald. I remember wanting to give him a good shake just the way I sometimes want to shake Iain MacWhirter now. He published a great book on the referendum campaign (
The Battle for Scotland), and yet in that account it was his junior reporter, one R. Dinwoodie if I'm not mistaken, who is described as going completely nat-native, I'm pretty sure blue face paint was involved somewhere.
Then the good Mr. Ritchie retired, and guess what. He pops up in the
Scots Independent writing a column as a committed and convinced nationalist. Hey Murray, think what you could have achieved if you'd had the courage of those convictions when you had an actual job!
And now it's said R. Dinwoodie, older if not wiser, who is giving us the caution and the spin and the let's-not-be-hasty journalism.
Come back Murray, we want to hear from you.
Posted by: Karin, glasgae. on 12:54am Mon 14 Apr 08
and are these polls mentioned on the bbc?
are they feck as like.
wht do we get "mouse hunt at holyrood"
usual unionist thinking small instead of seeing the big picture.
and are these polls mentioned on the bbc?
are they feck as like.
wht do we get "mouse hunt at holyrood"
usual unionist thinking small instead of seeing the big picture.
Posted by: Morag, Peeblesshire on 1:01am Mon 14 Apr 08
To be fair, Karin, it was an item on [italic]Reporting Scotland[/italic] at tea-time.
To be fair, Karin, it was an item on
Reporting Scotland at tea-time.
Posted by: Boggle fey the Bog, North Bank o' ra Clyde jist South o' ra Drum on 1:03am Mon 14 Apr 08
[quote][bold]Ronald[/bold] wrote:
Boggle fa the Bog - Your avin a larf right? You were "satisfied that THE HERALD was a left of centre newspaper" WHAT !!! Are you feckin bonkers!!! This is the filthy right wing rag that simply adored that old animal Margaret Hida Thatcher, and all her works. That insists we Scots must play host to Trident and its replacement, and has been a chearleader for the bloody massacre that is Iraq. Still not convinced? Then why pray tell would a left wing paper shamelessly suport DAS NUE LABOUR PARTY? [/quote] Missed the point somewhat ;-)
Ronald wrote:
Boggle fa the Bog - Your avin a larf right? You were "satisfied that THE HERALD was a left of centre newspaper" WHAT !!! Are you feckin bonkers!!! This is the filthy right wing rag that simply adored that old animal Margaret Hida Thatcher, and all her works. That insists we Scots must play host to Trident and its replacement, and has been a chearleader for the bloody massacre that is Iraq. Still not convinced? Then why pray tell would a left wing paper shamelessly suport DAS NUE LABOUR PARTY?
Missed the point somewhat ;-)
Posted by: Alex on 1:05am Mon 14 Apr 08
May I suggest Wendy reads the McCrone report, instead of the children’s stories she is so fond of quoting. If this is not beyond her intellectual capacity, she will read that McCrone’s opinion was that Scottish oil resources could result in Scotland having an embarrassingly large economic surplus. In spite of rumors to the contrary, there is still far more oil left than we have extracted thus far. It is Brown’s horrendous tax regime that is stifling both exploration and development of the North Sea.
Then of course Wendy could always have a little talk with her husband, whose opinion seems to be diametrically opposed to Wendy’s in these matters. I believe there is a video of her husband making just such a statement prior to the May elections. The difference here is that while Wendy thinks she has a big intellect, her husband’s is proven.
Returning to the main subject, it is worth remembering that prior to the election in May, A. S. made a clear statement that the SNP would need a period in office to demonstrate to the Scottish electorate that the SNP could provide a competent government. For many of the thinking electorate, they have achieved this objective in their first year of office.
If Westminster had, over the last 300 years, treated Scotland as an equal partner, then there may have been a justification for the Union. As we all know this has not been the case, we have been bullied and treated as the poor relation, whilst Westminster raped our resources. Those days are at an end, Scotland can rise and be an independent nation.
May I suggest Wendy reads the McCrone report, instead of the children’s stories she is so fond of quoting. If this is not beyond her intellectual capacity, she will read that McCrone’s opinion was that Scottish oil resources could result in Scotland having an embarrassingly large economic surplus. In spite of rumors to the contrary, there is still far more oil left than we have extracted thus far. It is Brown’s horrendous tax regime that is stifling both exploration and development of the North Sea.
Then of course Wendy could always have a little talk with her husband, whose opinion seems to be diametrically opposed to Wendy’s in these matters. I believe there is a video of her husband making just such a statement prior to the May elections. The difference here is that while Wendy thinks she has a big intellect, her husband’s is proven.
Returning to the main subject, it is worth remembering that prior to the election in May, A. S. made a clear statement that the SNP would need a period in office to demonstrate to the Scottish electorate that the SNP could provide a competent government. For many of the thinking electorate, they have achieved this objective in their first year of office.
If Westminster had, over the last 300 years, treated Scotland as an equal partner, then there may have been a justification for the Union. As we all know this has not been the case, we have been bullied and treated as the poor relation, whilst Westminster raped our resources. Those days are at an end, Scotland can rise and be an independent nation.
Posted by: Kadok, West End on 1:09am Mon 14 Apr 08
Aye but Karin BBC Scotland journalists are in a difficult position. Like Wendy they take their orders from London. They are officially classified as regional reporters and have the same status as someone reporting a village fete biggest cucumber prize on Look West. Every day for them is a personal and professional humiliation and success is when they get to do a link on News 24 to an audience of literally hundreds down south. They cannot report international news and they cannot even report Scottish news to the rest of the UK - a special 'Scotland correspondant' must do that as they are obviously far superior on stories about furry animals, sunbeds and other furry animals.
I exclude of course the Gaelic journalists who do a great job on Eorpa. It's the others with their mangled anglisied accents that are the embarrassment. Jackie, David, Gordon etc. Why don't you grow a collective spine and demand that you present national and international news from your shiny new building? I have confidence in you - why don't you??
Aye but Karin BBC Scotland journalists are in a difficult position. Like Wendy they take their orders from London. They are officially classified as regional reporters and have the same status as someone reporting a village fete biggest cucumber prize on Look West. Every day for them is a personal and professional humiliation and success is when they get to do a link on News 24 to an audience of literally hundreds down south. They cannot report international news and they cannot even report Scottish news to the rest of the UK - a special 'Scotland correspondant' must do that as they are obviously far superior on stories about furry animals, sunbeds and other furry animals.
I exclude of course the Gaelic journalists who do a great job on Eorpa. It's the others with their mangled anglisied accents that are the embarrassment. Jackie, David, Gordon etc. Why don't you grow a collective spine and demand that you present national and international news from your shiny new building? I have confidence in you - why don't you??
Posted by: rob4i, Scottish Borders on 2:37am Mon 14 Apr 08
well said, Alex & Kadok, my sentiments exactly and saved me the trouble!!
well said, Alex & Kadok, my sentiments exactly and saved me the trouble!!
Posted by: juankerr, Scotland on 2:44am Mon 14 Apr 08
Over at the Hootsmon it is another day of scaremongering.
All I ever see is personal opinion dressed up as journalism. For self respecting journalists they must surely be the laughing stock of the industry.
Well done Robbie. I know you are no fan of the SNP , which is fair enough. But good show on keeping your opinions out and letting the readership decide.
WELL DONE.
Over at the Hootsmon it is another day of scaremongering.
All I ever see is personal opinion dressed up as journalism. For self respecting journalists they must surely be the laughing stock of the industry.
Well done Robbie. I know you are no fan of the SNP , which is fair enough. But good show on keeping your opinions out and letting the readership decide.
WELL DONE.
Posted by: Edward, Edinburgh on 3:02am Mon 14 Apr 08
Wendy Alexander said "all the available evidence" indicated that even at times when oil prices were high an independent Scotland would struggle to maintain existing levels of public services.
You have to laugh, she is supposedly clever, but obviously maths wasnt her strong point (actually she doesnt have ANY strong points!)
try this : £ 11 billion per year divided umongst 65 million works out at £ 170 per person. £ 11 billion divided umongst 5 million works out at £ 2200 per person. Guess what Wendy, I think Scotland would be far better off being independent and keeping the money!
Wendy Alexander said "all the available evidence" indicated that even at times when oil prices were high an independent Scotland would struggle to maintain existing levels of public services.
You have to laugh, she is supposedly clever, but obviously maths wasnt her strong point (actually she doesnt have ANY strong points!)
try this : £ 11 billion per year divided umongst 65 million works out at £ 170 per person. £ 11 billion divided umongst 5 million works out at £ 2200 per person. Guess what Wendy, I think Scotland would be far better off being independent and keeping the money!
Posted by: juankerr, Scotland on 3:02am Mon 14 Apr 08
Boycott the Hootsmons advertisers and all their associated publications if you want this chirade to stop. The hootsmon is not worthy of carrying the Scottish peoples name.
http://www.pledgeban
k.com/binthescotsman
[bold]ACTION NOW![/bold]
Boycott the Hootsmons advertisers and all their associated publications if you want this chirade to stop. The hootsmon is not worthy of carrying the Scottish peoples name.
http://www.pledgeban
k.com/binthescotsman
ACTION NOW! Posted by: Macuistean, Isle of Tiree on 3:26am Mon 14 Apr 08
It is getting closer to the day when Unionist politicians in Scotland will start to cover their own backsides. One day someone is going to cross the floor to the SNP seats and then the torrent will follow.
It is getting closer to the day when Unionist politicians in Scotland will start to cover their own backsides. One day someone is going to cross the floor to the SNP seats and then the torrent will follow.
Posted by: Scunnert, Travelling in Nihlon on 3:47am Mon 14 Apr 08
LA at his lyrical best:
[quote]Oh dearie me, dearie me. I see all this success leading to doom. Aye, Ah do, Ah do. Mark ma words well - tomorrow the skies will cloud ower, the light will glower, an' the great stag o' the glen will fa' aff its perch oan the tap af the cliff, doon the scree skintin' its knee, tae the rock pool ablo, water sae deep, gas in a peep, an' droon itseel. The winds o' change aye blow cauld. Oh, aye they do, they do.[/quote]
Yer feelin fair chuffed are ye no LA - and rightly so.
Slainte
LA at his lyrical best:
Oh dearie me, dearie me. I see all this success leading to doom. Aye, Ah do, Ah do. Mark ma words well - tomorrow the skies will cloud ower, the light will glower, an' the great stag o' the glen will fa' aff its perch oan the tap af the cliff, doon the scree skintin' its knee, tae the rock pool ablo, water sae deep, gas in a peep, an' droon itseel. The winds o' change aye blow cauld. Oh, aye they do, they do.
Yer feelin fair chuffed are ye no LA - and rightly so.
Slainte
Posted by: Scunnert, Travelling in Nihlon on 3:53am Mon 14 Apr 08
[quote][bold]Kadok[/bold] wrote:
Aye but Karin BBC Scotland journalists are in a difficult position. Like Wendy they take their orders from London. They are officially classified as regional reporters and have the same status as someone reporting a village fete biggest cucumber prize on Look West. Every day for them is a personal and professional humiliation and success is when they get to do a link on News 24 to an audience of literally hundreds down south. They cannot report international news and they cannot even report Scottish news to the rest of the UK - a special 'Scotland correspondant' must do that as they are obviously far superior on stories about furry animals, sunbeds and other furry animals.
I exclude of course the Gaelic journalists who do a great job on Eorpa. It's the others with their mangled anglisied accents that are the embarrassment. Jackie, David, Gordon etc. Why don't you grow a collective spine and demand that you present national and international news from your shiny new building? I have confidence in you - why don't you??[/quote] Great post Kadok - agree completely.
Kadok wrote:
Aye but Karin BBC Scotland journalists are in a difficult position. Like Wendy they take their orders from London. They are officially classified as regional reporters and have the same status as someone reporting a village fete biggest cucumber prize on Look West. Every day for them is a personal and professional humiliation and success is when they get to do a link on News 24 to an audience of literally hundreds down south. They cannot report international news and they cannot even report Scottish news to the rest of the UK - a special 'Scotland correspondant' must do that as they are obviously far superior on stories about furry animals, sunbeds and other furry animals.
I exclude of course the Gaelic journalists who do a great job on Eorpa. It's the others with their mangled anglisied accents that are the embarrassment. Jackie, David, Gordon etc. Why don't you grow a collective spine and demand that you present national and international news from your shiny new building? I have confidence in you - why don't you??
Great post Kadok - agree completely.
Posted by: george alexander, north lanarkshire on 6:46am Mon 14 Apr 08
Watch out for single quotes being used in headlines involving the SNP.
They are either used to denote that the 'good news' is untrue or to allow them to use Labour propoganda as a headline.
The Scotsman of late has used this tactic a lot.
Watch out for single quotes being used in headlines involving the SNP.
They are either used to denote that the 'good news' is untrue or to allow them to use Labour propoganda as a headline.
The Scotsman of late has used this tactic a lot.
Posted by: steve4349, larbet on 6:48am Mon 14 Apr 08
have i missed wendys response and condemnation of broon screwing the poor with his abolishment of the 10p tax band,did i miss that or has it not happened
have i missed wendys response and condemnation of broon screwing the poor with his abolishment of the 10p tax band,did i miss that or has it not happened
Posted by: bluenose, Glasgow on 6:59am Mon 14 Apr 08
I noted on TV at the weekend that the bookies are already making a book on which football managers will get the sack before next season.
Anyone on here fancy running a book on which Unionists will suddenly find their Nationalist convictions and cross the floor ?
I noted on TV at the weekend that the bookies are already making a book on which football managers will get the sack before next season.
Anyone on here fancy running a book on which Unionists will suddenly find their Nationalist convictions and cross the floor ?
Posted by: John F on 7:18am Mon 14 Apr 08
Referendum on independence question:-
"The Scottish Government should negotiate a settlement with the government of the UK so that Scotland becomes an independent state."
With the condition that 40% of the total Scottish electorate vote "No" in order for the proposal to be rejected.
Referendum on independence question:-
"The Scottish Government should negotiate a settlement with the government of the UK so that Scotland becomes an independent state."
With the condition that 40% of the total Scottish electorate vote "No" in order for the proposal to be rejected.
Posted by: puskas, East Kilbride on 7:46am Mon 14 Apr 08
[quote][bold]Luigi[/bold] wrote:
Salmond is winning the argument hands down because, for all their bluster and scare-mongering, Broon and co have yet to put forward a feasible, constructive case for preserving the union.[/quote] Hi Luigi,
Broon has no constructive case to preserve the union....
Scaremongering over the decades has been the norm. Habit forming and difficult to change that mindset as is the opposite view.
The opposite view for independence is winning hands down in the debate . Why? . We have a National Government that is full of constructive debate/policies, and works for its people in a way that the unionists always promised but didn't deliver.
A lovely piece from the convener of stewards of the Clyde Shipyards in yesterdays Sundays regards the Labour Party and the so-called left. My experience going back further ( Mid. 60/70') that it was always the case when the chips were down that the Dewar type would renege and hide. It always amazed me (like today) that these imposters in the past (present) always without fail showed during media prime time. The history books tells us about the lies, deceit of the past from Labour politicions/Unions when the masses fought the fight against poverty lack of education etc.
The West and Central Scotland after many years may not be sprinting with the pro-independence view but a massive change is definately in the air.. Present day it seems the more educated are leading the marathon wearing Independence jerseys.
Luigi obviously I agree with you.
Luigi wrote:
Salmond is winning the argument hands down because, for all their bluster and scare-mongering, Broon and co have yet to put forward a feasible, constructive case for preserving the union.
Hi Luigi,
Broon has no constructive case to preserve the union....
Scaremongering over the decades has been the norm. Habit forming and difficult to change that mindset as is the opposite view.
The opposite view for independence is winning hands down in the debate . Why? . We have a National Government that is full of constructive debate/policies, and works for its people in a way that the unionists always promised but didn't deliver.
A lovely piece from the convener of stewards of the Clyde Shipyards in yesterdays Sundays regards the Labour Party and the so-called left. My experience going back further ( Mid. 60/70') that it was always the case when the chips were down that the Dewar type would renege and hide. It always amazed me (like today) that these imposters in the past (present) always without fail showed during media prime time. The history books tells us about the lies, deceit of the past from Labour politicions/Unions when the masses fought the fight against poverty lack of education etc.
The West and Central Scotland after many years may not be sprinting with the pro-independence view but a massive change is definately in the air.. Present day it seems the more educated are leading the marathon wearing Independence jerseys.
Luigi obviously I agree with you.
Posted by: puskas, East Kilbride on 7:52am Mon 14 Apr 08
These part statements from Mr Salmond and Wendy Alexander have been taken from the Times.
The online poll which stood at +84% pro-independence yesterday ( Sunday).
These part statements from Mr Salmond and Wendy Alexander have been taken from the Times.
The online poll which stood at +84% pro-independence yesterday ( Sunday).
Posted by: Denis, Glasgow on 8:27am Mon 14 Apr 08
She argued that Scotland still benefited from the Union and the co-operation that it brought between the countries.
Dependancy culture shining through.
She argued that Scotland still benefited from the Union and the co-operation that it brought between the countries.
Dependancy culture shining through.
Posted by: reasonablecomment, Glasgow on 8:40am Mon 14 Apr 08
Other than false allegations of bullying from London (aka SNP incompetence on understanding, or arrogance to, the Scotland Act) what cogent arguments have been presented for nationalist separation? Haven't heard any that are remotely convincing. Mr Salmond is well know for unpardonable follies.
Other than false allegations of bullying from London (aka SNP incompetence on understanding, or arrogance to, the Scotland Act) what cogent arguments have been presented for nationalist separation? Haven't heard any that are remotely convincing. Mr Salmond is well know for unpardonable follies.
Posted by: Los Angeles, Edinburgh on 8:50am Mon 14 Apr 08
Scunnert[quote]Yer feelin fair chuffed are ye no LA - and rightly so.[/quote] On these forums there's only two types of opposition to self-determination: the "we're aew doomed" Scotsman, or the psychopath BNP member. We had one yesterday on the Sunday Herald - said he "didn't care" when told off but of course pathologically he cared a lot.
He abused averybody, and kept posting the same garbage for hours. (I kept him up till 1pm UK time) The guy's clearly a weirdo.
Anyhow, I thought I should get the natsayer's view in early on this thread.
What we see happening is the public losing its fear of a dedicated Scottish government. The lies we have been served that it would be inward looking and insular are dispelled. When they look at the opposition they see and hear spite, vindictiveness, and disarray.
They see a progressive, democractic party willing to negotiate and in some regard to compromise. They see the SNP opening all the doors hitherto kept securely locked by Unionist parties, especially Labour in Scotland. There is NO bogeyman.
But above all, they witness a [italic]competent[/italic] government.
Scottish politics have altered for ever.
Scunnert
Yer feelin fair chuffed are ye no LA - and rightly so.
On these forums there's only two types of opposition to self-determination: the "we're aew doomed" Scotsman, or the psychopath BNP member. We had one yesterday on the Sunday Herald - said he "didn't care" when told off but of course pathologically he cared a lot.
He abused averybody, and kept posting the same garbage for hours. (I kept him up till 1pm UK time) The guy's clearly a weirdo.
Anyhow, I thought I should get the natsayer's view in early on this thread.
What we see happening is the public losing its fear of a dedicated Scottish government. The lies we have been served that it would be inward looking and insular are dispelled. When they look at the opposition they see and hear spite, vindictiveness, and disarray.
They see a progressive, democractic party willing to negotiate and in some regard to compromise. They see the SNP opening all the doors hitherto kept securely locked by Unionist parties, especially Labour in Scotland. There is NO bogeyman.
But above all, they witness a
competent government.
Scottish politics have altered for ever.
Posted by: Los Angeles, Edinburgh on 9:03am Mon 14 Apr 08
Unreasoned Crap[quote]what cogent arguments have been presented for nationalist separation?[/quote] You mean full democractic independence?
Hundreds of years of Scottish history.
And silencing folk like you.
Personally, I find the second reason very satisfying.
Unreasoned Crap
what cogent arguments have been presented for nationalist separation?
You mean full democractic independence?
Hundreds of years of Scottish history.
And silencing folk like you.
Personally, I find the second reason very satisfying.
Posted by: Luigi, Aberdeen on 9:15am Mon 14 Apr 08
Mornin Jimbo, puskas et al.,
The thing about the scaremongering is - yes, it did work, very effectively for years, but to be honest I don't think the people were ready for the great leap forward anyway.
The onionists have yet to realise that scary tales only work before an event (eg. devolution, snp government etc). Once the people realise that the sun hasn't fallen out of the sky and they haven't even lost their jobs or well-being, the scaremongering becomes, frankly ridiculous. Furthermore, people that bought into the whole doomsday stuff (for years) feel pleasantly surprised, at first. Eventually, they will feel that the have been deceived and feel very very angry - have you noticed that the angriest nationalists are ex-labour voters? By the time of the next election, if Salmond keeps his game, there will be many many angry people out there willing and able to inflict more pain on Scottish Labour.
Hell have no furry like an ex-labour voter scorned!
Mornin Jimbo, puskas et al.,
The thing about the scaremongering is - yes, it did work, very effectively for years, but to be honest I don't think the people were ready for the great leap forward anyway.
The onionists have yet to realise that scary tales only work before an event (eg. devolution, snp government etc). Once the people realise that the sun hasn't fallen out of the sky and they haven't even lost their jobs or well-being, the scaremongering becomes, frankly ridiculous. Furthermore, people that bought into the whole doomsday stuff (for years) feel pleasantly surprised, at first. Eventually, they will feel that the have been deceived and feel very very angry - have you noticed that the angriest nationalists are ex-labour voters? By the time of the next election, if Salmond keeps his game, there will be many many angry people out there willing and able to inflict more pain on Scottish Labour.
Hell have no furry like an ex-labour voter scorned!
Posted by: Luigi, Aberdeen on 9:16am Mon 14 Apr 08
sorry about the typo - quite furrrrrrrry really - still not fully awake. Need more coffee!
sorry about the typo - quite furrrrrrrry really - still not fully awake. Need more coffee!
Posted by: bluenose, Glasgow on 9:18am Mon 14 Apr 08
Unreasoned Crap
what cogent arguments have been presented for nationalist separation?
More dishonesty of the truth , it is the Unionists that refuse to even discuss the Independence issue , it is the Unionists that refuse to countenance a referendum.
They continually snipe and throw out smears and disinformation then accuse the Nationalists of refusing to debate or hold a referendum.
As you post you Unionist supporters you may be impressing yourselves with your rhetoric , however you are not kidding the Scottish eelctorate anymore , you were successful for 50 years but no more .
Never was there a more appropriate slogan
Its Time!!!!!
Scotland's time has come and Labour's time has been and is quickly vanishing!!!
Unreasoned Crap
what cogent arguments have been presented for nationalist separation?
More dishonesty of the truth , it is the Unionists that refuse to even discuss the Independence issue , it is the Unionists that refuse to countenance a referendum.
They continually snipe and throw out smears and disinformation then accuse the Nationalists of refusing to debate or hold a referendum.
As you post you Unionist supporters you may be impressing yourselves with your rhetoric , however you are not kidding the Scottish eelctorate anymore , you were successful for 50 years but no more .
Never was there a more appropriate slogan
Its Time!!!!!
Scotland's time has come and Labour's time has been and is quickly vanishing!!!
Posted by: David, scotland on 9:20am Mon 14 Apr 08
[bold]In a democracy the majority view wins[/bold] . No ifs no buts...a simple uncomplicated majority. No gerrymandering..no Cunninghamanisation (Mr 40%) ..a simple majority.... THEREFORE MUGABE>>>STEP ASIDE!
In a democracy the majority view wins . No ifs no buts...a simple uncomplicated majority. No gerrymandering..no Cunninghamanisation (Mr 40%) ..a simple majority.... THEREFORE MUGABE>>>STEP ASIDE!
Posted by: soloman, Stirling on 9:21am Mon 14 Apr 08
I wonder how much tax an independent Scotland will have to apply to our rising fuel prices?
Every time I go near a diesel pump (which is quite a regualr occurence,) I feel sick. Surely with such a low population compared to the rest of Mr Browns GB, Scotland will be able to reduce this unreasonable tax, I don't believe for a minute that the tax has anything to do with Global warming, after all we live on an island and can only drive so far before reaching the coast.
Perhaps the SNP should produce a manifesto figure in relation to pump prices to demonstrate how the cost of living in our wonderful country could be greatly reduced in that regard alone withinin an Independent Scotland.
I wonder how much tax an independent Scotland will have to apply to our rising fuel prices?
Every time I go near a diesel pump (which is quite a regualr occurence,) I feel sick. Surely with such a low population compared to the rest of Mr Browns GB, Scotland will be able to reduce this unreasonable tax, I don't believe for a minute that the tax has anything to do with Global warming, after all we live on an island and can only drive so far before reaching the coast.
Perhaps the SNP should produce a manifesto figure in relation to pump prices to demonstrate how the cost of living in our wonderful country could be greatly reduced in that regard alone withinin an Independent Scotland.
Posted by: Observer, Glasgow on 9:23am Mon 14 Apr 08
Unpardonable follies ? My, the old ones are the best, eh ? When you've got to reach that far back , you know you've lost the argument.
Unpardonable follies ? My, the old ones are the best, eh ? When you've got to reach that far back , you know you've lost the argument.
Posted by: Los Angeles, Edinburgh on 9:25am Mon 14 Apr 08
Luigi[quote]Hell have no furry like an ex-labour voter scorned![/quote] I don't like furry [bold][italic]or[/italic][/bold] naked Labour voters.
But you are right, Luigi, the more the opposition pour scorn on flat calm waters, the more voters switch sides. The politician who wins the argument is the one who treats his electorate as intelligent.
Luigi
Hell have no furry like an ex-labour voter scorned!
I don't like furry
or naked Labour voters.
But you are right, Luigi, the more the opposition pour scorn on flat calm waters, the more voters switch sides. The politician who wins the argument is the one who treats his electorate as intelligent.
Posted by: Luigi, Aberdeen on 9:32am Mon 14 Apr 08
Mornin Tipsters,
I don't think we are near the tipping point yet, but we are obviously heading that way. Once the critical mass of 'events' is reached, however, it will happen incredibly quickly.
I just hope we get independence before the world economy goes belly-up (another fast-approaching tipping point)? If the end is nigh, I want to end it in freedom!
Mornin Tipsters,
I don't think we are near the tipping point yet, but we are obviously heading that way. Once the critical mass of 'events' is reached, however, it will happen incredibly quickly.
I just hope we get independence before the world economy goes belly-up (another fast-approaching tipping point)? If the end is nigh, I want to end it in freedom!
Posted by: Los Angeles, Edinburgh on 9:34am Mon 14 Apr 08
Unreasoned Angst[quote]Unpardonable Follies?[/quote] Isn't that show on at the Westminster Hippodrome?
Unreasoned Angst
Unpardonable Follies?
Isn't that show on at the Westminster Hippodrome?
Posted by: Grassy Knollington on 9:34am Mon 14 Apr 08
Talking of Mugabe , you have to smile when you watch the news and see the folk of Zimbabwe grimly reading "The Herald"( near identical typeface to the Glasgow one) looking for answers. All they can find inside is the news that their leader is in denial about the election result, that the opposition didn't win, that everything is just as before.......
Talking of Mugabe , you have to smile when you watch the news and see the folk of Zimbabwe grimly reading "The Herald"( near identical typeface to the Glasgow one) looking for answers. All they can find inside is the news that their leader is in denial about the election result, that the opposition didn't win, that everything is just as before.......
Posted by: Luigi, Aberdeen on 9:38am Mon 14 Apr 08
[quote][bold]Los Angeles[/bold] wrote:
Luigi[quote]Hell have no furry like an ex-labour voter scorned![/quote] I don't like furry [bold][italic]or[/italic][/bold] naked Labour voters. But you are right, Luigi, the more the opposition pour scorn on flat calm waters, the more voters switch sides. The politician who wins the argument is the one who treats his electorate as intelligent. [/quote] LoL
Good one LA - is there any time of day (or night) when you are not so sharp?
Alistair Darling reminds me of a naked mole rat - with eyebrows!
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