
Watchdog threatens sleaze probe
 |
| MICHAEL MARTIN: Chairing review into MPs' expenses. |
Westminster's anti-sleaze committee has warned the Speaker, Michael Martin, that it may go ahead with its own investigation of MPs' expenses because of public perception that his own review is lacking independence.
The Committee on Standards in Public Life praises the way Holyrood brought in an outsider to conduct an equivalent review and insists that there would be more confidence in an independent study.
The Commons Members' Estimate Committee, chaired by Mr Martin, says it is carrying out a "root and branch" review of MPs' allowances. The Commons is to vote on changes to the system before MPs break-up for their summer recess in July
but the Committee on Standards in Public Life indicated yesterday that it would not allow the issue to rest there unless the review reinstated trust in MPs' expenses.
Its chairman, Sir Christopher Kelly, who has recently spoken to Mr Martin, said: "It is essential that our elected representatives are seen to lead by example. The committee has publicly welcomed the recognition by the Members' Estimate Committee that one of the key requirements of any new system resulting from the current review is that it should command public respect.
"If the outcome of the current review fails to command public confidence then the committee is prepared to undertake its own independent review of the issues involved."
Sir Christopher's committee called for all expenses claims "wherever reasonably possible" to be backed up by receipts, which should be kept for up to three years.
MPs only have to produce receipts for items over £25, reduced from £250 following criticism of the allowances regime. In a list of principles the committee expects MPs to follow in their review, it stressed expenses should not be regarded as "entitlements" or a source of financial benefit.
"Members of Parliament should be entitled to be reimbursed for reasonable expenses incurred wholly, necessarily and exclusively in the performance of their parliamentary duties," said the watchdog committee, "but such expenses should never be regarded as a substitute for pay."
Many MPs say privately that they have historically accepted lower pay rises in return for more generous allowances.
Labour MP Chris Mullin, a member of the Commons Standards and Privileges Committee, recently said the £23,000 annual cap on their second homes allowance had become a "target to be aimed for".
The Committee on Standards in Public Life insisted MPs should be "as open and transparent as possible" with their expenditure of public money, subject only to security and data protection concerns, and said there should be no "double benefit" for MPs who are also government ministers.
A statement from the committee backed the Commons' steps but added: "The public credibility of the outcome of the review is, however, likely to be greater if it had been undertaken independently of the House of Commons, as with the recent review of parliamentary allowances in Scotland conducted by a panel chaired by Sir Alan Langlands.
"In the event that the outcome of the current review fails to command public confidence, we may wish to undertake such a review in any event."
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permission is prohibited.

Posted by: Quine, aberdeen on 10:25pm Thu 10 Apr 08
I believe Gorbals Mick managed to spend around £1 million of oor taxes making his garden bonny?
How the fcuk?
Thats the People's Socialist Labour party for you.
I believe Gorbals Mick managed to spend around £1 million of oor taxes making his garden bonny?
How the fcuk?
Thats the People's Socialist Labour party for you.
Posted by: Jimmy the Pie, Orkney on 10:37pm Thu 10 Apr 08
Sleaze, lies and deceit. That'll be what Blair and the whole New Labour experiment will be remembered.
And Blair is being mooted as First President of Europe!!!
Never
Sleaze, lies and deceit. That'll be what Blair and the whole New Labour experiment will be remembered.
And Blair is being mooted as First President of Europe!!!
Never
Posted by: Carlo, Inverclyde on 11:00pm Thu 10 Apr 08
Jimmy: "Never"? But surely that would put him on an equal footing with his pal across the pond?
Jimmy: "Never"? But surely that would put him on an equal footing with his pal across the pond?
Posted by: mt on 11:02pm Thu 10 Apr 08
"Many MPs say privately that they have historically accepted lower pay rises in return for more generous allowances."
Allowances are tax free whilst pay is taxable.
Does Her Majesty's Revenue & Customs accept this from Her Majesty's Members of Parliament?
Can business have similar generous allowances?
"Many MPs say privately that they have historically accepted lower pay rises in return for more generous allowances."
Allowances are tax free whilst pay is taxable.
Does Her Majesty's Revenue & Customs accept this from Her Majesty's Members of Parliament?
Can business have similar generous allowances?
Posted by: pehman, sussex on 12:14am Fri 11 Apr 08
Apparently w/minster NEEDS Independence
Is that not what we've been telling them for how long ?
Apparently w/minster NEEDS Independence
Is that not what we've been telling them for how long ?
Posted by: Jwil, Lanarkshire on 12:15am Fri 11 Apr 08
[italic]Many MPs say privately that they have historically accepted lower pay rises in return for more generous allowances.[/italic]
What's the betting that they will end up with more net income than they are getting at the present time (including expenses).
Many MPs say privately that they have historically accepted lower pay rises in return for more generous allowances.
What's the betting that they will end up with more net income than they are getting at the present time (including expenses).
Posted by: Donald Anderson, glasgow on 12:18am Fri 11 Apr 08
Bishopbriggs Mick is no more socialist than the rest oj his party.
Bishopbriggs Mick is no more socialist than the rest oj his party.
Posted by: Carlo, Inverclyde on 12:52am Fri 11 Apr 08
Sorry, Jimmy. Took me a while to realise you were extracting the liquid waste.
Sorry, Jimmy. Took me a while to realise you were extracting the liquid waste.
Posted by: Wallace, Perth on 12:54am Fri 11 Apr 08
Quote from the minutes of the latest meeting of Squeaker Martin's Independent Inquiry Into The Expenses Trough - "Oink oink, snuffle snuffle, stop shoving ya hog! grunt grunt."
Quote from the minutes of the latest meeting of Squeaker Martin's Independent Inquiry Into The Expenses Trough - "Oink oink, snuffle snuffle, stop shoving ya hog! grunt grunt."
Posted by: Alex on 12:57am Fri 11 Apr 08
I am all for MP's being given a sensible salary, say £100-£120K p.a. but expenses to be treated he same as normal business expenses where every penny is accounted for with receipts and subject to an external audit and of course available to public scrutiny. All staff to be under the control of the Civil service. All of this to be funded by a significant reduction in the number of MP's. I cant see why we should require more than 100 members of the House it works for the USA.
I am all for MP's being given a sensible salary, say £100-£120K p.a. but expenses to be treated he same as normal business expenses where every penny is accounted for with receipts and subject to an external audit and of course available to public scrutiny. All staff to be under the control of the Civil service. All of this to be funded by a significant reduction in the number of MP's. I cant see why we should require more than 100 members of the House it works for the USA.
Posted by: Wullie, Aberdeen on 1:04am Fri 11 Apr 08
Gorbals Mick looks like a wee fat pig
Gorbals Mick looks like a wee fat pig
Posted by: Wallace, Perth on 1:05am Fri 11 Apr 08
Good suggestion Alex. As an OAP myself, I am still seething at the sheer brass neck and greed of Tony Blair claiming for his TV Licence, especially when you take into account the money his equally greedy wife Cherie was raking in, both from her salary as a QC and her speaking engagements. But not to worry, I'll be entitled to a free licence too, if I manage to survive until I'm 75.
Good suggestion Alex. As an OAP myself, I am still seething at the sheer brass neck and greed of Tony Blair claiming for his TV Licence, especially when you take into account the money his equally greedy wife Cherie was raking in, both from her salary as a QC and her speaking engagements. But not to worry, I'll be entitled to a free licence too, if I manage to survive until I'm 75.
Posted by: Wallace, Perth on 1:09am Fri 11 Apr 08
Wullie, don't insult the Gorbals. For many years it was a breeding ground for real criminals, not to mention the notorious Cumby gang. Mick Martin comes from Springburn in the north of Glasgow, which in the old days was an equally run down bombsite of a place - like many other parts of Glasgow, thanks in the main to 50 odd years of Labour Cooncil rule.
Wullie, don't insult the Gorbals. For many years it was a breeding ground for real criminals, not to mention the notorious Cumby gang. Mick Martin comes from Springburn in the north of Glasgow, which in the old days was an equally run down bombsite of a place - like many other parts of Glasgow, thanks in the main to 50 odd years of Labour Cooncil rule.
Posted by: pencildick on 4:02am Fri 11 Apr 08
Labour are'nt corrupt
Its all been a bad dream
We'll all waken up..................
.......Someday
Labour are'nt corrupt
Its all been a bad dream
We'll all waken up..................
.......Someday
Posted by: pencildick on 4:13am Fri 11 Apr 08
Alex says
"Im all for MPs given a sensible salary,say £100,000 - £120,000" P.A
Alex thats not a sensible salary, thats £8 ,ooo a month
MPs are'nt worth that a f u***ng year.
Alex says
"Im all for MPs given a sensible salary,say £100,000 - £120,000" P.A
Alex thats not a sensible salary, thats £8 ,ooo a month
MPs are'nt worth that a f u***ng year.
Posted by: ex labour voter, glasgow on 4:50am Fri 11 Apr 08
[quote][bold]Wullie[/bold] wrote:
Gorbals Mick looks like a wee fat pig[/quote] He looks like a fat greedy pig caught in the headlights of self indulgent pigginess. grunt,grunt.
Wullie wrote:
Gorbals Mick looks like a wee fat pig
He looks like a fat greedy pig caught in the headlights of self indulgent pigginess. grunt,grunt.
Posted by: spagan, heisker, scotland on 8:36am Fri 11 Apr 08
Westminster has an anti-sleaze committee?
Must meet in a phonebox.
Is it not a contradiction in terms - "Westminster Anti-sleaze" or "Army Intelligence" or "Government Efficiency" or "Christian Science" or "Microsoft Works".
Any other good oxymorons out there?
Is our own wee "Proud tb Scottish one"? - "Yes, if you lose the 'oxy'."
"Intelligent Wendy", "Prudent Gordon" ?????
(ED - enough morons for now ...............)
Slainte Mhor
Westminster has an anti-sleaze committee?
Must meet in a phonebox.
Is it not a contradiction in terms - "Westminster Anti-sleaze" or "Army Intelligence" or "Government Efficiency" or "Christian Science" or "Microsoft Works".
Any other good oxymorons out there?
Is our own wee "Proud tb Scottish one"? - "Yes, if you lose the 'oxy'."
"Intelligent Wendy", "Prudent Gordon" ?????
(ED - enough morons for now ...............)
Slainte Mhor
Posted by: impreza18blue, Glasgow on 8:39am Fri 11 Apr 08
[bold]"may go ahead with its own investigation of MPs' expenses because of public perception that his own review is lacking independence."[/bold]
No Sh!t Sherlock !! Top of the detective class for sussing that one out.
"may go ahead with its own investigation of MPs' expenses because of public perception that his own review is lacking independence."
No Sh!t Sherlock !! Top of the detective class for sussing that one out.
Posted by: Astonished, Inverclyde on 8:42am Fri 11 Apr 08
I hope the Scottish electoral commission are ready. I believe their highest state of readiness is called "whitewash alert".
I hope the Scottish electoral commission are ready. I believe their highest state of readiness is called "whitewash alert".
Posted by: Quine, aberdeen on 8:47am Fri 11 Apr 08
http://www.telegraph
.co.uk/news/main.jht
ml?xml=/news/2008/03
/29/nmps129.xml
Just in case you all had forgotten Labour's socialist core values.
http://www.telegraph
.co.uk/news/main.jht
ml?xml=/news/2008/03
/29/nmps129.xml
Just in case you all had forgotten Labour's socialist core values.
Posted by: Corrupt EU, Fife on 9:17am Fri 11 Apr 08
14 Structural Engineers Now Publicly Challenge Government's Explanation for Destruction of the World Trade Center
George Washington's Blog
Thursday, April 10, 2008
14 structural engineers now publicly challenge the government's account of the destruction of the Trade Centers on 9/11:
A prominent engineer with 55 years experience, in charge of the design of hundreds of major building projects including high rise offices, former member of the California Seismic Safety Commission and former member of the National Institute of Sciences Building Safety Council (Marx Ayres) believes that the World Trade Centers were brought down by controlled demolition (see also this)
Two professors of structural engineering at a prestigious Swiss university (Dr. Joerg Schneider and Dr. Hugo Bachmann) said that, on 9/11, World Trade Center 7 was brought down by controlled demolition (translation here)
14 Structural Engineers Now Publicly Challenge Government's Explanation for Destruction of the World Trade Center
George Washington's Blog
Thursday, April 10, 2008
14 structural engineers now publicly challenge the government's account of the destruction of the Trade Centers on 9/11:
A prominent engineer with 55 years experience, in charge of the design of hundreds of major building projects including high rise offices, former member of the California Seismic Safety Commission and former member of the National Institute of Sciences Building Safety Council (Marx Ayres) believes that the World Trade Centers were brought down by controlled demolition (see also this)
Two professors of structural engineering at a prestigious Swiss university (Dr. Joerg Schneider and Dr. Hugo Bachmann) said that, on 9/11, World Trade Center 7 was brought down by controlled demolition (translation here)
Posted by: GBW, Largs on 9:49am Fri 11 Apr 08
[quote][bold]Quine[/bold] wrote:
http://www.telegraph .co.uk/news/main.jht ml?xml=/news/2008/03 /29/nmps129.xml Just in case you all had forgotten Labour's socialist core values.[/quote] Hi Quine.
Just viewed the link you posted.
Disgusting.
I've just contrasted this obscene theft of public money by a public servant, with another theft by a public servant of £2500 from her school funds.
Result? She was found guilty in court, and is about to be struck off the teaching register.
It seems the more you steal from tax payers, the less chance there is of prosecution... or as a member of the serving(?) government.
What can we do about this? They are all excreated from the same hole which means there is little, more likely no, chance of change.
Sorry about the comparison, but I can't think of any other way to describe them.
Quine wrote:
http://www.telegraph .co.uk/news/main.jht ml?xml=/news/2008/03 /29/nmps129.xml Just in case you all had forgotten Labour's socialist core values.
Hi Quine.
Just viewed the link you posted.
Disgusting.
I've just contrasted this obscene theft of public money by a public servant, with another theft by a public servant of £2500 from her school funds.
Result? She was found guilty in court, and is about to be struck off the teaching register.
It seems the more you steal from tax payers, the less chance there is of prosecution... or as a member of the serving(?) government.
What can we do about this? They are all excreated from the same hole which means there is little, more likely no, chance of change.
Sorry about the comparison, but I can't think of any other way to describe them.
Posted by: stevie, glasgow on 9:56am Fri 11 Apr 08
Anti Sleaze Committee!!. Let's see who's on it and what their expenses have been for the last five years.
What we need here is forensic accountants to go through all the rats expenses since they were elected and nail them.
An MP can claim up to £80,000 for a researcher,well let them earn their money,every penny of taxpayers money should be recorded every day.
Anti Sleaze Committee!!. Let's see who's on it and what their expenses have been for the last five years.
What we need here is forensic accountants to go through all the rats expenses since they were elected and nail them.
An MP can claim up to £80,000 for a researcher,well let them earn their money,every penny of taxpayers money should be recorded every day.
Posted by: Disgusted Dorothy, Glasgow on 9:58am Fri 11 Apr 08
Corrupt, it always looked that way as if Fred Dibna had been given the job.
Surely no Government would use that kind of evil to persuade the people , jaundiced after Vietnam, to back an invasion of Iraq?
Would they ?
Corrupt, it always looked that way as if Fred Dibna had been given the job.
Surely no Government would use that kind of evil to persuade the people , jaundiced after Vietnam, to back an invasion of Iraq?
Would they ?
Posted by: Politically-incorrec
t Man, Glasgow on 10:03am Fri 11 Apr 08
[quote]The Commons is to vote on changes to the system before MPs break-up for their summer recess in July but the Committee on Standards in Public Life indicated yesterday that it would not allow the issue to rest there unless the review reinstated trust in MPs' expenses.[/quote]
Why are MPs allowed to dictate their own terms and conditions of service? Why are they allowed to “police” breaches of their codes?
MPs are employed by US!; why do we not control their terms and conditions of service just like any other employer does?
Answer – this is not a democracy it is a plutocracy and the legislature is part of the process of keeping the masses under control and productive.
Can’t you see that it is and always has been used as an instrument of repression?
The Commons is to vote on changes to the system before MPs break-up for their summer recess in July but the Committee on Standards in Public Life indicated yesterday that it would not allow the issue to rest there unless the review reinstated trust in MPs' expenses.
Why are MPs allowed to dictate their own terms and conditions of service? Why are they allowed to “police” breaches of their codes?
MPs are employed by US!; why do we not control their terms and conditions of service just like any other employer does?
Answer – this is not a democracy it is a plutocracy and the legislature is part of the process of keeping the masses under control and productive.
Can’t you see that it is and always has been used as an instrument of repression?
Posted by: Quine, aberdeen on 10:06am Fri 11 Apr 08
Am just astounded that anyone can spend a million on a gairden. Must have been some amount of privet hedge and gladiolas.
Also, GBW from Largs, where can I see the article about the teacher?
And i wonder if he/she can use the defence that they didn't know that what they were doing was wrong? Ala wenD?
The law serves the elite.
Am just astounded that anyone can spend a million on a gairden. Must have been some amount of privet hedge and gladiolas.
Also, GBW from Largs, where can I see the article about the teacher?
And i wonder if he/she can use the defence that they didn't know that what they were doing was wrong? Ala wenD?
The law serves the elite.
Posted by: stevie, glasgow on 10:08am Fri 11 Apr 08
"Many MP's say privately they have historically accepted lower pay rises in return for more generous allowances.".
Who the hell has ever thought MP's wage rises were "low", in comparison to whom?.
That's like saying to your boss "ok I'll take the 3% ,but I want another £20,000 in undeclared expenses.
Aye Right.!!.
"Many MP's say privately they have historically accepted lower pay rises in return for more generous allowances.".
Who the hell has ever thought MP's wage rises were "low", in comparison to whom?.
That's like saying to your boss "ok I'll take the 3% ,but I want another £20,000 in undeclared expenses.
Aye Right.!!.
Posted by: GBW, Largs on 10:25am Fri 11 Apr 08
Hello Again Quine.
Here's the info about the former headmistress and her theft...
http://www.dailyreco
rd.co.uk/news/scotti
sh-news/2008/04/11/h
eadmistress-who-cook
ed-school-books-to-b
e-struck-off-86908-2
0379013/
Cheers
Hello Again Quine.
Here's the info about the former headmistress and her theft...
http://www.dailyreco
rd.co.uk/news/scotti
sh-news/2008/04/11/h
eadmistress-who-cook
ed-school-books-to-b
e-struck-off-86908-2
0379013/
Cheers
Posted by: Quine, aberdeen on 10:32am Fri 11 Apr 08
"Johnstone, of Burn Cottage, Bunoich, Fort Augustus, admitted all the offences and [bold]resigned[/bold] as soon as she was charged."
No excuses for what she did. However, she did do the honorable thing and resign and admit she did wrong.
Maybe someone should forward this story on to Labour HQ.
"Johnstone, of Burn Cottage, Bunoich, Fort Augustus, admitted all the offences and
resigned as soon as she was charged."
No excuses for what she did. However, she did do the honorable thing and resign and admit she did wrong.
Maybe someone should forward this story on to Labour HQ.
Posted by: Toophingers, Bellshill. on 11:50am Fri 11 Apr 08
[quote][bold]Wullie[/bold] wrote:
Gorbals Mick looks like a wee fat pig[/quote] Hey there, Wullie. I find wee fat pigs loveable and object to the comparison.
As for Gorbals Mick investigating sleaze a comparison would be the Blairs investigating each other.
Wullie wrote:
Gorbals Mick looks like a wee fat pig
Hey there, Wullie. I find wee fat pigs loveable and object to the comparison.
As for Gorbals Mick investigating sleaze a comparison would be the Blairs investigating each other.
Posted by: herewegoagain, Glasgow on 12:19pm Fri 11 Apr 08
[bold]Many MPs say privately that they have historically accepted lower pay rises in return for more generous allowances[/bold] .
Where do you get courses in how to be a MP; I'm sure if there were any the queues to sign up would be out the door. How do they justify their basic £60k in the first place??
Individuals shouldn't be allowed to take up a post until they've held down a job like running an organisation [bold]successfully[/bold] Although now that I think of it does that just mean we'd get the managers of Scottish Enterprise queuing up with their expertse in cooking the books......
Many MPs say privately that they have historically accepted lower pay rises in return for more generous allowances .
Where do you get courses in how to be a MP; I'm sure if there were any the queues to sign up would be out the door. How do they justify their basic £60k in the first place??
Individuals shouldn't be allowed to take up a post until they've held down a job like running an organisation
successfully Although now that I think of it does that just mean we'd get the managers of Scottish Enterprise queuing up with their expertse in cooking the books......
Posted by: Wallace, Perth on 1:09pm Fri 11 Apr 08
Asking Mick Martin and his "Committee" to investigate MP's expenses is a bit like asking Robert Mugabe and his henchmen to investigate allegations of vote rigging by ZANU PF.
Asking Mick Martin and his "Committee" to investigate MP's expenses is a bit like asking Robert Mugabe and his henchmen to investigate allegations of vote rigging by ZANU PF.
Posted by: Toophingers, Bellshill. on 1:27pm Fri 11 Apr 08
[quote][bold]Wallace[/bold] wrote:
Asking Mick Martin and his "Committee" to investigate MP's expenses is a bit like asking Robert Mugabe and his henchmen to investigate allegations of vote rigging by ZANU PF.[/quote] Or the Blairs to investigate each other.
There must be no [bold]'may'[/bold] about the anti-sleaze committee investigating sleaze. There has already been far too many cases exposed where the culprits have been whitewashed by own party kangaroo courts - mostly New Labour - to allow this daylight robbery to continue [bold]unquestioned[/bold] by an independent body.
Wallace wrote:
Asking Mick Martin and his "Committee" to investigate MP's expenses is a bit like asking Robert Mugabe and his henchmen to investigate allegations of vote rigging by ZANU PF.
Or the Blairs to investigate each other.
There must be no
'may' about the anti-sleaze committee investigating sleaze. There has already been far too many cases exposed where the culprits have been whitewashed by own party kangaroo courts - mostly New Labour - to allow this daylight robbery to continue
unquestioned by an independent body.
Posted by: Toophingers, Bellshill. on 1:33pm Fri 11 Apr 08
A PS to my 1.27pm.
Does a real watchdog merely threaten a burglar by growling then lets them past to get on with their thieving ?
A PS to my 1.27pm.
Does a real watchdog merely threaten a burglar by growling then lets them past to get on with their thieving ?
Posted by: stevie, glasgow on 1:40pm Fri 11 Apr 08
Martins review committee are looking at MP's expenses, but what they are really doing ,is sitting working out how they can swing it so that expenses are built into their next pay rise.
By doing this they will enhance their fat pensions ever further.
Alex 12:27.No offence Alex but your suggestion that these cretins get £120,000 Plus expenses is beyond the pale.
I say give them the same pay rise as Public Sector staff,remove all allowances except travel and staff costs,as for accommodation for those that stay more than 2 hours commuting distance from parliament convert some of the fifty bars or cafes in the house to rooms.
Reduce their holidays to 35 days a year and pass a law that they cannot participate in any other business whilst an MP or Minister. .
Check out" www.they work for you.com". It tells you how your MP voted on most issues,including a more transparent parliament.
I then wrote to my MP asking him what he thought about the public having access to his expenses,he said he was all for it, so I have written back asking what changed his mind, because Hansard shows he voted very strongly against more openness.
A good point raised in the Independent a few weeks ago was how key workers can get 30% of the cost of a new home paid for by the Tax Payer ,when they sell this house 30% of the new current value gets cropped back to the Treasury.
This is not the case with MP's , why not??.
We all know that Blue Labour are bad but as ever the Tories are always one jump ahead when it comes to slime!.
They have started to put their London houses into trusts for their offspring (having paid of the mortgage) and are claiming the full ACA expenses saying it is the rent on the property.
Martins review committee are looking at MP's expenses, but what they are really doing ,is sitting working out how they can swing it so that expenses are built into their next pay rise.
By doing this they will enhance their fat pensions ever further.
Alex 12:27.No offence Alex but your suggestion that these cretins get £120,000 Plus expenses is beyond the pale.
I say give them the same pay rise as Public Sector staff,remove all allowances except travel and staff costs,as for accommodation for those that stay more than 2 hours commuting distance from parliament convert some of the fifty bars or cafes in the house to rooms.
Reduce their holidays to 35 days a year and pass a law that they cannot participate in any other business whilst an MP or Minister. .
Check out" www.they work for you.com". It tells you how your MP voted on most issues,including a more transparent parliament.
I then wrote to my MP asking him what he thought about the public having access to his expenses,he said he was all for it, so I have written back asking what changed his mind, because Hansard shows he voted very strongly against more openness.
A good point raised in the Independent a few weeks ago was how key workers can get 30% of the cost of a new home paid for by the Tax Payer ,when they sell this house 30% of the new current value gets cropped back to the Treasury.
This is not the case with MP's , why not??.
We all know that Blue Labour are bad but as ever the Tories are always one jump ahead when it comes to slime!.
They have started to put their London houses into trusts for their offspring (having paid of the mortgage) and are claiming the full ACA expenses saying it is the rent on the property.
Posted by: allymax, yuk on 4:08pm Fri 11 Apr 08
The party's over sleaze nation New Labour.
The party's over sleaze nation New Labour.
Posted by: Alex on 4:10pm Fri 11 Apr 08
Wallace, Perth on 1:05am
I beat you to the TV Licence I’ve just applied this year!!
I agree that claiming for a TV licence by Blair and others was simply spitting in the face of the taxpayer. It is more than time that the Working Man realised that this New Labour Party has long given up any pretence to being a socialist party, helping the least favoured in the community. They are now the self-help Party; they help themselves to whatever they can get their hands on.
pencildick on 4:13am
I agree with your sentiment in relation to the vast majority of occupants of all three houses of government. However to get the right quality of staff you have to pay the proper rate. I’d be happy to pay and average of £200,000 to 100 quality managers to do a good job than the existing £80,000,000 plus we pay these layabouts in the commons. A better job done at less than a quarter of the price that’s my idea of a good deal!!
herewegoagain, Glasgow on 12:19pm
As I recall, this miss-use of expenses started during the Wilson Labour Government. At the time the entire country were being subjected to a statuary pay freeze. OK for we taxpayers, but it upset some of the MP’s when it was made clear that they must set the example.
I believe the whips were sent round the Labour MP’s to tell them not to worry that their expenses would be adjusted to compensate them for the lack of an inflation busting pay rise. From that time MP’s have seen their expenses as forming a tax free element of their pay structure.
Wallace, Perth on 1:05am
I beat you to the TV Licence I’ve just applied this year!!
I agree that claiming for a TV licence by Blair and others was simply spitting in the face of the taxpayer. It is more than time that the Working Man realised that this New Labour Party has long given up any pretence to being a socialist party, helping the least favoured in the community. They are now the self-help Party; they help themselves to whatever they can get their hands on.
pencildick on 4:13am
I agree with your sentiment in relation to the vast majority of occupants of all three houses of government. However to get the right quality of staff you have to pay the proper rate. I’d be happy to pay and average of £200,000 to 100 quality managers to do a good job than the existing £80,000,000 plus we pay these layabouts in the commons. A better job done at less than a quarter of the price that’s my idea of a good deal!!
herewegoagain, Glasgow on 12:19pm
As I recall, this miss-use of expenses started during the Wilson Labour Government. At the time the entire country were being subjected to a statuary pay freeze. OK for we taxpayers, but it upset some of the MP’s when it was made clear that they must set the example.
I believe the whips were sent round the Labour MP’s to tell them not to worry that their expenses would be adjusted to compensate them for the lack of an inflation busting pay rise. From that time MP’s have seen their expenses as forming a tax free element of their pay structure.
Posted by: Alex on 4:13pm Fri 11 Apr 08
Wallace, Perth on 1:05am
I beat you to the TV Licence I’ve just applied this year!!
I agree that claiming for a TV licence by Blair and others was simply spitting in the face of the taxpayer. It is more than time that the Working Man realised that this New Labour Party has long given up any pretence to being a socialist party, helping the least favoured in the community. They are now the self-help Party; they help themselves to whatever they can get their hands on.
pencildick on 4:13am
I agree with your sentiment in relation to the vast majority of occupants of all three houses of government. However to get the right quality of staff you have to pay the proper rate. I’d be happy to pay and average of £200,000 to 100 quality managers to do a good job than the existing £80,000,000 plus we pay these layabouts in the commons. A better job done at less than a quarter of the price that’s my idea of a good deal!!
herewegoagain, Glasgow on 12:19pm
As I recall, this miss-use of expenses started during the Wilson Labour Government. At the time the entire country were being subjected to a statuary pay freeze. OK for we taxpayers, but it upset some of the MP’s when it was made clear that they must set the example.
I believe the whips were sent round the Labour MP’s to tell them not to worry, that their expenses would be adjusted to compensate them for the lack of an inflation busting pay rise. From that time MP’s have seen their expenses as forming a tax free element of their pay structure.
Wallace, Perth on 1:05am
I beat you to the TV Licence I’ve just applied this year!!
I agree that claiming for a TV licence by Blair and others was simply spitting in the face of the taxpayer. It is more than time that the Working Man realised that this New Labour Party has long given up any pretence to being a socialist party, helping the least favoured in the community. They are now the self-help Party; they help themselves to whatever they can get their hands on.
pencildick on 4:13am
I agree with your sentiment in relation to the vast majority of occupants of all three houses of government. However to get the right quality of staff you have to pay the proper rate. I’d be happy to pay and average of £200,000 to 100 quality managers to do a good job than the existing £80,000,000 plus we pay these layabouts in the commons. A better job done at less than a quarter of the price that’s my idea of a good deal!!
herewegoagain, Glasgow on 12:19pm
As I recall, this miss-use of expenses started during the Wilson Labour Government. At the time the entire country were being subjected to a statuary pay freeze. OK for we taxpayers, but it upset some of the MP’s when it was made clear that they must set the example.
I believe the whips were sent round the Labour MP’s to tell them not to worry, that their expenses would be adjusted to compensate them for the lack of an inflation busting pay rise. From that time MP’s have seen their expenses as forming a tax free element of their pay structure.
Posted by: Alex on 4:34pm Fri 11 Apr 08
stevie, glasgow on 1:40pm
No offence taken Stevie! Read my later post and you will see what I’m driving at. If you pay peanuts you get monkeys! I’m afraid we’ve got monkeys in abundance but the peanuts are gilded.
The real problem is that we get the government we deserve, by our failure to monitor their performance or actions. I was delighted to read that you write to your MP and challenge him or her when what they say differs from their actions – keep it up. If only more of the electorate would follow suit.
I too have an NL MP and I try to keep him on his toes, he’s even invited me to join a focus group he runs. Keep your friends close and your enemies even closer! Since I told him I would use our correspondence to campaign against him at the next election I note that one of his underlings now responds to me and is extremely careful in his answers.
When cross checking what your MP says or writes against his voting record, also check if there was a whip instruction. This Whipping System is grossly undemocratic and should not just be abandoned but made illegal. An MP’s first duty is too his electorate NOT the party machine!!
stevie, glasgow on 1:40pm
No offence taken Stevie! Read my later post and you will see what I’m driving at. If you pay peanuts you get monkeys! I’m afraid we’ve got monkeys in abundance but the peanuts are gilded.
The real problem is that we get the government we deserve, by our failure to monitor their performance or actions. I was delighted to read that you write to your MP and challenge him or her when what they say differs from their actions – keep it up. If only more of the electorate would follow suit.
I too have an NL MP and I try to keep him on his toes, he’s even invited me to join a focus group he runs. Keep your friends close and your enemies even closer! Since I told him I would use our correspondence to campaign against him at the next election I note that one of his underlings now responds to me and is extremely careful in his answers.
When cross checking what your MP says or writes against his voting record, also check if there was a whip instruction. This Whipping System is grossly undemocratic and should not just be abandoned but made illegal. An MP’s first duty is too his electorate NOT the party machine!!
Posted by: jazzdrum, glasgow on 5:48pm Fri 11 Apr 08
We are all human , and it looks as if George Orwells remark about power corrupting people is in the main shown to be true, although this dosnt apply to all , only the small minded of which alas there seems to be a surfiet in Westminster at this time.
We are all human , and it looks as if George Orwells remark about power corrupting people is in the main shown to be true, although this dosnt apply to all , only the small minded of which alas there seems to be a surfiet in Westminster at this time.
Posted by: Buckpool Loon, Cheshire on 6:10pm Fri 11 Apr 08
I couldn't give a **** what we pay MP's if they were capable of doing the job they're paid for.
But, they're not. They're incapable of preventing an illegal war; incapable of administring a humane policy to the aftermath of that war; incapable of incorporating fiscal policies and safeguards on the finance industry and the energy industries; incapable of producing government that increases the living standards of the people they supposidely represent; incable of gerverning without resorting to bribes, sleaze and lies. In all things all they have proven is their incapabilty. Other than in the issues that lign their own pockets.
And the Unionist cry for more of the same?
I couldn't give a **** what we pay MP's if they were capable of doing the job they're paid for.
But, they're not. They're incapable of preventing an illegal war; incapable of administring a humane policy to the aftermath of that war; incapable of incorporating fiscal policies and safeguards on the finance industry and the energy industries; incapable of producing government that increases the living standards of the people they supposidely represent; incable of gerverning without resorting to bribes, sleaze and lies. In all things all they have proven is their incapabilty. Other than in the issues that lign their own pockets.
And the Unionist cry for more of the same?
Posted by: Los Angeles, Edinburgh on 6:39pm Fri 11 Apr 08
Some excellent points made on this forum. I hope MPs and MSPs will come across it. Their esponse is to say they are elected or not at regular intervals and are therefore accountable to the voters ... but I don't recall voting for Labour to support Bush and invade Iraq, with all the consequent evil that has come from it.
Some excellent points made on this forum. I hope MPs and MSPs will come across it. Their esponse is to say they are elected or not at regular intervals and are therefore accountable to the voters ... but I don't recall voting for Labour to support Bush and invade Iraq, with all the consequent evil that has come from it.
Posted by: RogerT, Hamilton on 6:54pm Fri 11 Apr 08
LA
Don't forget the generous pensions, even for just one session in their seat.
LA
Don't forget the generous pensions, even for just one session in their seat.
Posted by: Los Angeles, Edinburgh on 7:53pm Fri 11 Apr 08
Roger Hamilton [quote]Don't forget the generous pensions, even for just one session in their seat.[/quote] It has crossed my mind as a freelance without hope of a pension that a month's sojourn as an MP, a quick bit of open corruption, then disbarred, defrocked, and generally run out of town, will see me reasonably well-heeled for retirement in a country gite in France.
Roger Hamilton
Don't forget the generous pensions, even for just one session in their seat.
It has crossed my mind as a freelance without hope of a pension that a month's sojourn as an MP, a quick bit of open corruption, then disbarred, defrocked, and generally run out of town, will see me reasonably well-heeled for retirement in a country gite in France.
Posted by: stevie, glasgow on 8:26pm Fri 11 Apr 08
[quote][bold]Los Angeles[/bold] wrote:
Roger Hamilton [quote]Don't forget the generous pensions, even for just one session in their seat.[/quote] It has crossed my mind as a freelance without hope of a pension that a month's sojourn as an MP, a quick bit of open corruption, then disbarred, defrocked, and generally run out of town, will see me reasonably well-heeled for retirement in a country gite in France.
[/quote] Dream on L.A. A months sojourn,!! By the time they disbar you then defrock you ,you'll have spent ten years in the place.
Still you will have enough for a Chateau by then.
Los Angeles wrote:
Roger Hamilton Don't forget the generous pensions, even for just one session in their seat.
It has crossed my mind as a freelance without hope of a pension that a month's sojourn as an MP, a quick bit of open corruption, then disbarred, defrocked, and generally run out of town, will see me reasonably well-heeled for retirement in a country gite in France.
Dream on L.A. A months sojourn,!! By the time they disbar you then defrock you ,you'll have spent ten years in the place.
Still you will have enough for a Chateau by then.
Posted by: Scunnert, Travelling in Nihlon on 8:29pm Fri 11 Apr 08
Alex on 4:13pm today wrote:
[quote]As I recall, this miss-use of expenses started during the Wilson Labour Government. At the time the entire country were being subjected to a statuary pay freeze. OK for we taxpayers, but it upset some of the MP’s when it was made clear that they must set the example.
I believe the whips were sent round the Labour MP’s to tell them not to worry, that their expenses would be adjusted to compensate them for the lack of an inflation busting pay rise. From that time MP’s have seen their expenses as forming a tax free element of their pay structure.[/quote]
Here's a wee song from those long agp days:
The tax mans taken all my dough,
And left me in my stately home,
Lazing on a sunny afternoon.
And I cant sail my yacht,
Hes taken everything Ive got,
All Ive gots this sunny afternoon.
Save me, save me, save me from this squeeze.
I got a big fat mama trying to break me.
And I love to live so pleasantly,
Live this life of luxury,
Lazing on a sunny afternoon.
In the summertime
In the summertime
In the summertime
My girlfriends run off with my car,
And gone back to her ma and pa,
Telling tales of drunkenness and cruelty.
Now Im sitting here,
Sipping at my ice cold beer,
Lazing on a sunny afternoon.
Help me, help me, help me sail away,
Well give me two good reasons why I oughta stay.
cause I love to live so pleasantly,
Live this life of luxury,
Lazing on a sunny afternoon.
In the summertime
In the summertime
In the summertime
Ah, save me, save me, save me from this squeeze.
I got a big fat mama trying to break me.
And I love to live so pleasantly,
Live this life of luxury,
Lazing on a sunny afternoon.
In the summertime
In the summertime
In the summertime
Alex on 4:13pm today wrote:
As I recall, this miss-use of expenses started during the Wilson Labour Government. At the time the entire country were being subjected to a statuary pay freeze. OK for we taxpayers, but it upset some of the MP’s when it was made clear that they must set the example.
I believe the whips were sent round the Labour MP’s to tell them not to worry, that their expenses would be adjusted to compensate them for the lack of an inflation busting pay rise. From that time MP’s have seen their expenses as forming a tax free element of their pay structure.
Here's a wee song from those long agp days:
The tax mans taken all my dough,
And left me in my stately home,
Lazing on a sunny afternoon.
And I cant sail my yacht,
Hes taken everything Ive got,
All Ive gots this sunny afternoon.
Save me, save me, save me from this squeeze.
I got a big fat mama trying to break me.
And I love to live so pleasantly,
Live this life of luxury,
Lazing on a sunny afternoon.
In the summertime
In the summertime
In the summertime
My girlfriends run off with my car,
And gone back to her ma and pa,
Telling tales of drunkenness and cruelty.
Now Im sitting here,
Sipping at my ice cold beer,
Lazing on a sunny afternoon.
Help me, help me, help me sail away,
Well give me two good reasons why I oughta stay.
cause I love to live so pleasantly,
Live this life of luxury,
Lazing on a sunny afternoon.
In the summertime
In the summertime
In the summertime
Ah, save me, save me, save me from this squeeze.
I got a big fat mama trying to break me.
And I love to live so pleasantly,
Live this life of luxury,
Lazing on a sunny afternoon.
In the summertime
In the summertime
In the summertime
Posted by: Scunnert, Travelling in Nihlon on 8:31pm Fri 11 Apr 08
And another:
There's a crack up in the ceiling,
And the kitchen sink is leaking.
Out of work and got no money,
A Sunday joint of bread and honey.
What are we living for?
Two-roomed apartment on the second floor.
No money coming in,
The rent collector's knocking, trying to get in.
We are strictly second class,
We don't understand,
(Dead end!)
Why we should be on dead end street.
(Dead end!)
People are living on dead end street.
(Dead end!)
Gonna die on dead end street.
Dead end street (yeah)
Dead end street (yeah)
On a cold and frosty morning,
Wipe my eyes and stop me yawning.
And my feet are nearly frozen,
Boil the tea and put some toast on.
What are we living for?
Two-roomed apartment on the second floor.
No chance to emigrate,
I'm deep in debt and now it's much too late.
We both want to work so hard,
We can't get the chance,
(Dead end!)
People live on dead end street.
(Dead end!)
People are dying on dead end street.
(Dead end!)
Gonna die on dead end street.
Dead end street (yeah)
Dead end street (yeah)
(Dead end!)
People live on dead end street.
(Dead end!)
People are dying on dead end street.
(Dead end!)
Gonna die on dead end street.
Dead end street (yeah)
Dead end street (yeah)
Dead end street (yeah)
Head to my feet (yeah)
Dead end street (yeah)
Dead end street (yeah)
Dead end street (yeah)
How's it feel? (yeah)
How's it feel? (yeah)
Dead end street (yeah)
Dead end street (yea
And another:
There's a crack up in the ceiling,
And the kitchen sink is leaking.
Out of work and got no money,
A Sunday joint of bread and honey.
What are we living for?
Two-roomed apartment on the second floor.
No money coming in,
The rent collector's knocking, trying to get in.
We are strictly second class,
We don't understand,
(Dead end!)
Why we should be on dead end street.
(Dead end!)
People are living on dead end street.
(Dead end!)
Gonna die on dead end street.
Dead end street (yeah)
Dead end street (yeah)
On a cold and frosty morning,
Wipe my eyes and stop me yawning.
And my feet are nearly frozen,
Boil the tea and put some toast on.
What are we living for?
Two-roomed apartment on the second floor.
No chance to emigrate,
I'm deep in debt and now it's much too late.
We both want to work so hard,
We can't get the chance,
(Dead end!)
People live on dead end street.
(Dead end!)
People are dying on dead end street.
(Dead end!)
Gonna die on dead end street.
Dead end street (yeah)
Dead end street (yeah)
(Dead end!)
People live on dead end street.
(Dead end!)
People are dying on dead end street.
(Dead end!)
Gonna die on dead end street.
Dead end street (yeah)
Dead end street (yeah)
Dead end street (yeah)
Head to my feet (yeah)
Dead end street (yeah)
Dead end street (yeah)
Dead end street (yeah)
How's it feel? (yeah)
How's it feel? (yeah)
Dead end street (yeah)
Dead end street (yea
Posted by: Colin B, Bearsden on 12:35am Sat 12 Apr 08
No surprise Gorbals Mick is bent baised to LAbour
The biggest liar is Des Browne though
No surprise Gorbals Mick is bent baised to LAbour
The biggest liar is Des Browne though
Posted by: puskas, East Kilbride on 8:13am Sat 12 Apr 08
Colin there is nothing between any of the Liebour corruption party MP's . Their constituancy party members are thick as mince...
Colin there is nothing between any of the Liebour corruption party MP's . Their constituancy party members are thick as mince...
Posted by: Victor Smith on 1:13pm Wed 16 Apr 08
When we compare the situation with the MP's Benevolent Society situated in the 'House of Corruption' down in the Westminster watering hole, where all they need to do 'is ask - and they shall receive' - or if not, simply boost up their 'expenses claims' by the odd thousand pounds or two to meet their requirements of the moment! That seems to be the picture being drawn!
The way 'The System' seems to be operated - 'Chitties or official receipts' (which are probably considered tiresome and laborious to check - and who wants that!!) are of no official importance regarding being paid out from taxpayers funds - and it's all 'Tax Free!' Paradise looms!
It also seems they are extremely clever at ‘The Game’ as even the well known CPS ‘kingpins’ say they are baffled by ‘how they do it!’ - too mysterious it seems!
Those MP’s that qualify also get free accommodation in London, and virtually all their living expenses paid for - compliments the Taxpayer (and still they seem desirous to fiddle the whole caboodle - in their greed!!).
To top it all, it seems they will also make many expenses claims for their 'other house' to cover any expenses for its upkeep and be paid for - but why? What is their 'salary' paid to them for - simply a 'Nice little earner' for 'joining the Club!' turning up now and again, and obviously taking some oath of secrecy!
With all the seemingly 'dodgy' financial activities they indulge in because of their personal greed, at least those that we discover from Press reports - it leaves one bewildered as to where are all the Governments 'Whistleblowers'! Could it be they also are 'fully paid-up members’ of the best tax free 'Savings Club' in the Country - if not the World!!
From the scene gleaned from the Press reports it does give a quite believable impression that the ‘House of Corruption’ (aka House of Commons!) simply abounds with fraudulent financial activity by our Trusted, Honourable and Loyal representatives, yet those who are in a position to correct it, seemingly, just don’t want to bother! But why - after all it is way beyond time when they had either 'Faces' to be saved or their 'Honour' to be protected - they blew that aspect a long, long time ago!!
There are no prizes for answering correctly or if even coming close to the answer, for guessing why action is not being taken! Of course, we may never know!
It appears they must know 'time is up' and so are just 'making hay while they can - whether the Sun shines or not!
Must surely be time for a very early ‘Spring Clear Out’ of the whole system
When we compare the situation with the MP's Benevolent Society situated in the 'House of Corruption' down in the Westminster watering hole, where all they need to do 'is ask - and they shall receive' - or if not, simply boost up their 'expenses claims' by the odd thousand pounds or two to meet their requirements of the moment! That seems to be the picture being drawn!
The way 'The System' seems to be operated - 'Chitties or official receipts' (which are probably considered tiresome and laborious to check - and who wants that!!) are of no official importance regarding being paid out from taxpayers funds - and it's all 'Tax Free!' Paradise looms!
It also seems they are extremely clever at ‘The Game’ as even the well known CPS ‘kingpins’ say they are baffled by ‘how they do it!’ - too mysterious it seems!
Those MP’s that qualify also get free accommodation in London, and virtually all their living expenses paid for - compliments the Taxpayer (and still they seem desirous to fiddle the whole caboodle - in their greed!!).
To top it all, it seems they will also make many expenses claims for their 'other house' to cover any expenses for its upkeep and be paid for - but why? What is their 'salary' paid to them for - simply a 'Nice little earner' for 'joining the Club!' turning up now and again, and obviously taking some oath of secrecy!
With all the seemingly 'dodgy' financial activities they indulge in because of their personal greed, at least those that we discover from Press reports - it leaves one bewildered as to where are all the Governments 'Whistleblowers'! Could it be they also are 'fully paid-up members’ of the best tax free 'Savings Club' in the Country - if not the World!!
From the scene gleaned from the Press reports it does give a quite believable impression that the ‘House of Corruption’ (aka House of Commons!) simply abounds with fraudulent financial activity by our Trusted, Honourable and Loyal representatives, yet those who are in a position to correct it, seemingly, just don’t want to bother! But why - after all it is way beyond time when they had either 'Faces' to be saved or their 'Honour' to be protected - they blew that aspect a long, long time ago!!
There are no prizes for answering correctly or if even coming close to the answer, for guessing why action is not being taken! Of course, we may never know!
It appears they must know 'time is up' and so are just 'making hay while they can - whether the Sun shines or not!
Must surely be time for a very early ‘Spring Clear Out’ of the whole system
