Tax change ‘hits lowest-paid soldiers’
IAN BRUCE and ROBBIE DINWOODIE
TENS of thousands of soldiers, sailors and airmen on the lowest armed forces pay bands will be between £30 and £89 worse off from this week as a result of the abolition of the 10p income tax rate, according to Liberal Democrat research.
The revelation heaped further pressure on the Prime Minister after he had already faced one of his worst ever back-bench revolts over a tax change seen as an assault on the lowest paid. Members of the armed forces of private rank up to level 3, who have a starting salary of just £14,349, will be hit hardest. Those on level 1 are new entrants and trade apprentices.
In total, about 66,000 servicemen and women - up to a third of all armed forces personnel - could find themselves paying more as a result of Gordon Brown's tax changes.
Vince Cable, the LibDem Shadow Chancellor, said: "This is a shabby deal from ministers who appear to care little about those who put their lives on the line for Britain.
"How can we be asking our hard-pressed personnel to pay more in tax when we pay them so little in the first place? This is a disgraceful way to reward our armed forces for the fighting they are doing in Afghanistan and Iraq at this government's behest.
"Once again Brown and Darling have shown that what they give with one hand they take away with the other."
According to the Ministry
of Defence: "The increases provided for by the pay review body this year included not only a 2.6% basic rise, but the addition of the X factor to increase the remuneration of the lower ranks by about 3.5%.
"That is on top of the 9% for the lower ranks provided for last year. The operational bonus also increased by 3.6%. In addition, retention packages of up to £15,000 for certain pinch-point trades are continuing to try to maintain skills in those areas where they are most needed."
The MoD last year introduced a tax-free operational allowance of £2320 for a six- month tour in Iraq, Afghan-istan and the Balkans. There is also an £1100 longer separation allowance for married troops. This amount is pitched to ensure that the more junior personnel on operations are compensated for their tax bill while deployed.
The forces' pay award was significantly higher than other public sector groups, including the police and prison officers, who have had a 1.9% rise imposed. The MoD says the higher award for service personnel is in recognition of the pressure they are under fighting two counter-insurgency campaigns in Afghanistan and Iraq.
Defence Minister Bob Ainsworth later sought to pour scorn on the LibDems' number crunching and said he was writing to Mr Cable accusing him of a "Herculean distortion of the facts" and calling on him to retract his claims.
He said: "It is misleading and irresponsible in the extreme for you to use our armed forces as a political football in this way."
Tory leader David Cameron stepped up his attack on the change, which he hopes to make a key feature of his local election campaign. The removal of the 10p rate for the lowest paid, which came into effect yesterday, was "kicking people when they are down," Mr Cameron said.
Prominent Labour figures also attacked the change, with former Welfare Reform Minister Frank Field claiming there was "growing unease" within the party.
The Commons Treasury Select Committee said low paid workers without families would be hardest hit by the changes, which were announced in last year's Budget.
The Prime Minister said in Oxford that the increase in child benefit, child tax credit and the winter fuel allowance meant that overall people would be better off. He also criticised the Conservatives, saying they were making "false promises" to the public.
There was increasing unrest among Labour ranks over Mr Brown's abolition of the 10p starting rate of income tax, after a powerful cross-party committee of MPs branded it "unreasonable".
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Posted by: Wardog, Buckie on 1:05am Tue 8 Apr 08
Des Browne, whilst 'blistering' about the SNP, fails to stand up for service yet again..... he is an absolute clown of a man....
[bold]It's Time[/bold] the guid folk of Kilmarnock and Loudoun vote this idiot out
He's a national disgrace and proven lying barsteward
Des Browne, whilst 'blistering' about the SNP, fails to stand up for service yet again..... he is an absolute clown of a man....
It's Time the guid folk of Kilmarnock and Loudoun vote this idiot out
He's a national disgrace and proven lying barsteward
Posted by: Ronald, Glasgow on 1:13am Tue 8 Apr 08
They fight Herr Brown's Ilegal, unjustified wars. They kill, torture and murder over one million women, men and kiddies for Gordon's NEW LABOUR PROJECT, yet he refuses to pay the blood money.
Has he any sense of shame?
They fight Herr Brown's Ilegal, unjustified wars. They kill, torture and murder over one million women, men and kiddies for Gordon's NEW LABOUR PROJECT, yet he refuses to pay the blood money.
Has he any sense of shame?
Posted by: Jwil, Lanarkshire on 1:13am Tue 8 Apr 08
[italic]Defence Minister Bob Ainsworth later sought to pour scorn on the LibDems' number crunching and said he was writing to Mr Cable accusing him of a "Herculean distortion of the facts" and calling on him to retract his claims[/italic]
Apart from pouring scorn, is it true or not?
As someone suggested on Newsnight, when these new taxation policies are being introduced the winners and the losers should be listed.
Defence Minister Bob Ainsworth later sought to pour scorn on the LibDems' number crunching and said he was writing to Mr Cable accusing him of a "Herculean distortion of the facts" and calling on him to retract his claims
Apart from pouring scorn, is it true or not?
As someone suggested on Newsnight, when these new taxation policies are being introduced the winners and the losers should be listed.
Posted by: Steve A, Glasgow on 1:13am Tue 8 Apr 08
The hard pressed soldiers could be forgiven for using des(shoit for brains)brownes photo for target practice! 10p for a bulls eye!
The hard pressed soldiers could be forgiven for using des(shoit for brains)brownes photo for target practice! 10p for a bulls eye!
Posted by: Peter Thomson, Yet another nail in Labour's Coffin on 1:25am Tue 8 Apr 08
No content with cutting service personnel's overseas allowances while serving off the front line in Iraq or Afghanistan now Des 'two jobs' has let his pal Gordon rob them of more money from their pockets and then Des 'two jobs' has the affront to claim he does not understand why service personnel are leaving in droves.
The blisters Des is any good at are getting them on his butt. Message to Labour, you are not fooling anyone, the UK is in the financial poo and you are having to take money from the poorest to cover the holes in Labour's budget. This is why these people have to be kicked out of government as soon as is humanly possible.
No content with cutting service personnel's overseas allowances while serving off the front line in Iraq or Afghanistan now Des 'two jobs' has let his pal Gordon rob them of more money from their pockets and then Des 'two jobs' has the affront to claim he does not understand why service personnel are leaving in droves.
The blisters Des is any good at are getting them on his butt. Message to Labour, you are not fooling anyone, the UK is in the financial poo and you are having to take money from the poorest to cover the holes in Labour's budget. This is why these people have to be kicked out of government as soon as is humanly possible.
Posted by: Tired of excuses, Galashiels on 1:29am Tue 8 Apr 08
Inquest after inquest has slated the government for failing to supply the tools the troops need to carry out their duties.
And now this latest atrocity.
**** sure and I know which way the squaddies will be voting next time Gordon gets the guts up to call an election.
Inquest after inquest has slated the government for failing to supply the tools the troops need to carry out their duties.
And now this latest atrocity.
**** sure and I know which way the squaddies will be voting next time Gordon gets the guts up to call an election.
Posted by: Wardog, Buckie on 1:30am Tue 8 Apr 08
[bold]Brown hits new low as voters desert Labour[/bold]
[italic]www.timesonline.co.u
k/tol/news/politics/
article3701540.ece[/italic]
Dear oh Dear..... Mr Bean strikes again!
Brown hits new low as voters desert Labour
www.timesonline.co.u
k/tol/news/politics/
article3701540.ece
Dear oh Dear..... Mr Bean strikes again!
Posted by: Wardog, Buckie on 1:33am Tue 8 Apr 08
Scottish Labour seem to have disappeared off the radar.
No comments from them whatsoever.
No one on deck and a massive Iceberg looming, no doubt their all up in the Captain's Dining Room supping G+T before the proverbial hits the fan......
Or maybe they are all visiting the Kremlin or Lenin's Grave to re-establish their new fascination with all things 'red n radical'?
Or more likely enjoying a [italic]well earned[/italic] holiday paid for in leui by the 2% cut in income tax on their £51k MSP Salaries that Gordon Brown has awarded them by taking money from the low earners in our society including soldiers, young people and pensioners?
[bold]
Labour: TRUE SOCIALITES[/bold]
[italic]
Supping G+T's while the iceberg looms.[/italic]
Pip pip
Scottish Labour seem to have disappeared off the radar.
No comments from them whatsoever.
No one on deck and a massive Iceberg looming, no doubt their all up in the Captain's Dining Room supping G+T before the proverbial hits the fan......
Or maybe they are all visiting the Kremlin or Lenin's Grave to re-establish their new fascination with all things 'red n radical'?
Or more likely enjoying a
well earned holiday paid for in leui by the 2% cut in income tax on their £51k MSP Salaries that Gordon Brown has awarded them by taking money from the low earners in our society including soldiers, young people and pensioners?
Labour: TRUE SOCIALITES
Supping G+T's while the iceberg looms.
Pip pip
Posted by: Sierra Foothills Scot, California on 1:35am Tue 8 Apr 08
This tax increase will prevent the affected military personnel from buying their own equipment to replace the shoddy MOD-issue equipment , for which Des Browne, as Defence Secretary, is ultimately responsible.
On Sunday Des Browne, in his part-time job as Governer Gereral of Scotland, accused the SNP Scottish Government of being "shoddy" and "ridiculous".
Gordon Brown, Mr Browne's boss, should quote some relevant words from his "moral compass" to Mr Browne: "Thou hypocrite, first cast out the beam out of thine own eye; and then shalt thou see clearly to cast out the mote out of thy brother's eye." (Matthew 7:5, King James version).
This tax increase will prevent the affected military personnel from buying their own equipment to replace the shoddy MOD-issue equipment , for which Des Browne, as Defence Secretary, is ultimately responsible.
On Sunday Des Browne, in his part-time job as Governer Gereral of Scotland, accused the SNP Scottish Government of being "shoddy" and "ridiculous".
Gordon Brown, Mr Browne's boss, should quote some relevant words from his "moral compass" to Mr Browne: "Thou hypocrite, first cast out the beam out of thine own eye; and then shalt thou see clearly to cast out the mote out of thy brother's eye." (Matthew 7:5, King James version).
Posted by: wisnaeme, wisnae there on 2:12am Tue 8 Apr 08
[quote]
[bold]Defence Minister Bob Ainsworth said, " it is misleading and irresponsible in the extreme for you to use the arm forces as a political football in this way."
[/bold]
[/quote]
Eh??? .... and what in he11s name has he himself been doing since he joined the ranks of ministerial position.
I and many others have not forgotten the way in which you 'earned' your promotion in Coventry, Mr Minister. Nice to appreciated such recommendations of approval from yourself for flogging off public assets and the building of such a best value, best practice PPP hospital in your patch.
I'll be visiting your patch frequently Mr Minister on the run up to May first. Maybe folk should be inform of the current financial difficulties your little venture into the world of high finance has been responsible for amongst others. Your position although on a shoggly peg may be safe for the moment , but I have no doubts at all that with a little encouragement from well pi$$ed off folk in your fiefdom , lesser fry of your persuasion are most definitely facing difficulties in your patch, come May the first.
...and ah'll be one of the 'difficulties ' Sir. I can assure you of that..
...and about these super duper overpriced , privately operated erm medical factory client processing units your socialist comrades have planned for Coventry? Aye there will be some mightily pi$$ed off coventry folk, including doctors when they have been better informed. of just what is going to be imposed apon them.
...and better informed they will be Mr Minister ,Sir. That I can assure you of. Make the most of your nice days Mr Minister for there will be a scarcity of them shortly.
.
Defence Minister Bob Ainsworth said, " it is misleading and irresponsible in the extreme for you to use the arm forces as a political football in this way."
Eh??? .... and what in he11s name has he himself been doing since he joined the ranks of ministerial position.
I and many others have not forgotten the way in which you 'earned' your promotion in Coventry, Mr Minister. Nice to appreciated such recommendations of approval from yourself for flogging off public assets and the building of such a best value, best practice PPP hospital in your patch.
I'll be visiting your patch frequently Mr Minister on the run up to May first. Maybe folk should be inform of the current financial difficulties your little venture into the world of high finance has been responsible for amongst others. Your position although on a shoggly peg may be safe for the moment , but I have no doubts at all that with a little encouragement from well pi$$ed off folk in your fiefdom , lesser fry of your persuasion are most definitely facing difficulties in your patch, come May the first.
...and ah'll be one of the 'difficulties ' Sir. I can assure you of that..
...and about these super duper overpriced , privately operated erm medical factory client processing units your socialist comrades have planned for Coventry? Aye there will be some mightily pi$$ed off coventry folk, including doctors when they have been better informed. of just what is going to be imposed apon them.
...and better informed they will be Mr Minister ,Sir. That I can assure you of. Make the most of your nice days Mr Minister for there will be a scarcity of them shortly.
.
Posted by: jonny bond, glasgow on 3:08am Tue 8 Apr 08
If you are paying 1000 pound in income tax at 10%,10,000 a year above 5.5grand, how are squadies only losing 68 quid when their tax is set to double. There must be so many allowances in this simplified tax system of darlings that it's beyond comprehension like his budget. Which accountant did he use to work that little lie out. How many poor folk who dont have access to an accountant are paying so little tax. Tax credit how many families know how much they get for tax credits or bother claiming them. Our taxation regime is top heavy outdated and unworkable that was clear to labour before they messed about with it. We just didn't expect them to do a u turn on their 10% tax rate for the poor or was that a tory tax on labour government spending. It seems darling and the clown that opperates his strings are doing a last grab of our money in an effort to promote their special projects that set up a retirement income.
p.s I hate torys they were chased out this country and I didn't shed a tear till they regained a foothold. I just never expected them to takeover the labour party like some yahoo company being submerged by the goliath google..
If you are paying 1000 pound in income tax at 10%,10,000 a year above 5.5grand, how are squadies only losing 68 quid when their tax is set to double. There must be so many allowances in this simplified tax system of darlings that it's beyond comprehension like his budget. Which accountant did he use to work that little lie out. How many poor folk who dont have access to an accountant are paying so little tax. Tax credit how many families know how much they get for tax credits or bother claiming them. Our taxation regime is top heavy outdated and unworkable that was clear to labour before they messed about with it. We just didn't expect them to do a u turn on their 10% tax rate for the poor or was that a tory tax on labour government spending. It seems darling and the clown that opperates his strings are doing a last grab of our money in an effort to promote their special projects that set up a retirement income.
p.s I hate torys they were chased out this country and I didn't shed a tear till they regained a foothold. I just never expected them to takeover the labour party like some yahoo company being submerged by the goliath google..
Posted by: Jock Politicaljunkie, Glasgow on 3:15am Tue 8 Apr 08
It just doesn´t get any blacker than this. This is just another stealth tax. In [italic]this[/italic] case just to cancel out any previously headlining "inflation busting" (har har) rise given last year.
"Private Scott, may I introduce you to Mr Darling´s size 10 Church Brougue. Mr Darling´s size 10 Church Brougue, may I direct you to Private Scott´s nadgers. Carry on!!"
As a former member of the forces whose starting salary was just 10 quid a day - [italic]as[/italic] an Officer joining as recently as 1984! - I am disgusted by this move. The treasury MAY have consulted with the MOD but I doubt if any MOD input would have been constructive.
The sad fact, especially for the younger single man, is that when you are busy in the forces, you are [italic]really[/italic] f^^(king busy. So busy, in fact, that you have no time to spend any of your money. ( The most money I [italic]ever[/italic] saved was during a nine month stint when all the time I had off was a week for Easter and two weekends! - at the end of this I slept straight though for 17 hours.)
So, the younger ones will probably not notice the reduction in their pay packets - this makes it a cynical move. "We´ve just cut your salary by X% lad but don´t you mind now, and off to Iraq with you. Stiff upper lip and all that sh!te!"
The older, unpromoted ones, with families - who make up a fairly sizeable chunk of our experienced block WILL notice - or rather their WIVES will coz they are the ones at home spending the smaller take home!! [bold]These men will continue to leave in their droves to the severe detriment to the trained strength.[/bold]
New Liebore = Red Tory. No honour, no trust, no future.
It just doesn´t get any blacker than this. This is just another stealth tax. In
this case just to cancel out any previously headlining "inflation busting" (har har) rise given last year.
"Private Scott, may I introduce you to Mr Darling´s size 10 Church Brougue. Mr Darling´s size 10 Church Brougue, may I direct you to Private Scott´s nadgers. Carry on!!"
As a former member of the forces whose starting salary was just 10 quid a day -
as an Officer joining as recently as 1984! - I am disgusted by this move. The treasury MAY have consulted with the MOD but I doubt if any MOD input would have been constructive.
The sad fact, especially for the younger single man, is that when you are busy in the forces, you are
really f^^(king busy. So busy, in fact, that you have no time to spend any of your money. ( The most money I
ever saved was during a nine month stint when all the time I had off was a week for Easter and two weekends! - at the end of this I slept straight though for 17 hours.)
So, the younger ones will probably not notice the reduction in their pay packets - this makes it a cynical move. "We´ve just cut your salary by X% lad but don´t you mind now, and off to Iraq with you. Stiff upper lip and all that sh!te!"
The older, unpromoted ones, with families - who make up a fairly sizeable chunk of our experienced block WILL notice - or rather their WIVES will coz they are the ones at home spending the smaller take home!!
These men will continue to leave in their droves to the severe detriment to the trained strength.
New Liebore = Red Tory. No honour, no trust, no future.
Posted by: jonny bond, glasgow on 3:15am Tue 8 Apr 08
Want to know the results of the next election labour will lose scotland to the snp but not by enough for them to get a mandate to allow us to choose our destiny. They lose england to the torys because at least the voters down there want real tories in blue ties after browns fatal management of UK plc as bothPM and puppet master at no 11. Wales sorry when i went to the future, 2 whole years of procrastination on labours part before gordon wanted to seek a mandate to change the mess he made, I didn't bother checking wales but my guess is it wouldnt of been awash in a sea of red ribbons.
Want to know the results of the next election labour will lose scotland to the snp but not by enough for them to get a mandate to allow us to choose our destiny. They lose england to the torys because at least the voters down there want real tories in blue ties after browns fatal management of UK plc as bothPM and puppet master at no 11. Wales sorry when i went to the future, 2 whole years of procrastination on labours part before gordon wanted to seek a mandate to change the mess he made, I didn't bother checking wales but my guess is it wouldnt of been awash in a sea of red ribbons.
Posted by: John F on 3:57am Tue 8 Apr 08
But I thought nobody would be worse off ? Gordon Brown
Daily Mail - 2nd April 2008:"Gordon did not seem to understand what they were talking about and kept insisting that nobody would lose out by the change.They reportedly objected when Mr Brown assured them no one would be worse off because of increased tax credits.
Wednesday 2 April 2008, House of Commons: Mr. Hague:The Prime Minister is reported to have said on Monday night that no one would be worse off as a result of the doubling of the 10p tax band this weekend. Does the right hon. and learned Lady think that that statement was true ? Ms Harman:.............
...
Mr. Hague: I did not detect an answer to the question in all of that.
But I thought nobody would be worse off ? Gordon Brown
Daily Mail - 2nd April 2008:"Gordon did not seem to understand what they were talking about and kept insisting that nobody would lose out by the change.They reportedly objected when Mr Brown assured them no one would be worse off because of increased tax credits.
Wednesday 2 April 2008, House of Commons: Mr. Hague:The Prime Minister is reported to have said on Monday night that no one would be worse off as a result of the doubling of the 10p tax band this weekend. Does the right hon. and learned Lady think that that statement was true ? Ms Harman:.............
...
Mr. Hague: I did not detect an answer to the question in all of that.
Posted by: subrosa on 4:38am Tue 8 Apr 08
Why has it taken all these months before someone noticed this? Surely when this budget was debated it was an issue although little was said about it in the press. Bit late in the day to start jumping up and down in protest but I suppose better late than never.
As for Scottish labour they'll all be away on their holidays. Possibly some freebie villas in the sun somewhere.
Why has it taken all these months before someone noticed this? Surely when this budget was debated it was an issue although little was said about it in the press. Bit late in the day to start jumping up and down in protest but I suppose better late than never.
As for Scottish labour they'll all be away on their holidays. Possibly some freebie villas in the sun somewhere.
Posted by: John F on 5:46am Tue 8 Apr 08
subrosa on 4:38am today. The 2007 budget was mentioned in the press at the time, maybe these are the newspapers that the Labour MP's are discouraged from reading ?
Daily Mail -22nd March 2007 Experts said 3.5million families - one in five - will actually lose out.
Telegraph - 23/03/2007 - When the basic rate of income tax goes down to 20p, the size of the gross pension contribution will be cut from £128.21 to £125.To maintain the same level of pension saving, employees will need to increase their own contributions by around 2.5 per cent.
Telegraph - 23/03/2007 - More cynically still, the abolition of the lowest rate of income tax will hit many of the poorest households hardest. So will the tightening of the working tax credit, the effect of which will be to increase the number of people facing massive 70pc marginal tax rates.
I am also wondering what the Scottish Labour Party especially what their leader has to say ?
subrosa on 4:38am today. The 2007 budget was mentioned in the press at the time, maybe these are the newspapers that the Labour MP's are discouraged from reading ?
Daily Mail -22nd March 2007 Experts said 3.5million families - one in five - will actually lose out.
Telegraph - 23/03/2007 - When the basic rate of income tax goes down to 20p, the size of the gross pension contribution will be cut from £128.21 to £125.To maintain the same level of pension saving, employees will need to increase their own contributions by around 2.5 per cent.
Telegraph - 23/03/2007 - More cynically still, the abolition of the lowest rate of income tax will hit many of the poorest households hardest. So will the tightening of the working tax credit, the effect of which will be to increase the number of people facing massive 70pc marginal tax rates.
I am also wondering what the Scottish Labour Party especially what their leader has to say ?
Posted by: Jock Politicaljunkie, Glasgow on 5:46am Tue 8 Apr 08
Subrosa correctly points out:
"As for Scottish labour they'll all be away on their holidays. Possibly some freebie villas in the sun somewhere."
Aye, like the Joke Mcconnell/Kirsty Wark Holiday Club!!! Though must say, haven´t seen too muck of Kirsty lately. Perhaps her biased, rude, imbalanced, hatchet job she attempted on Alex Salmond last year HAS come home to roost.
Saw her for for the first time in a long time hosting a literary quiz show for well read sorts on BBC4 just over a week ago and both the wife and I commented - simultaneously and out of the blue - as such!! My how the mighty have fallen!
I have a wish list of Liebore/Red tory MP´s I wish to see fall in 2009/2010 (whenever Gordy has the guts). In order: 1 - Broon; 2 - Darling; 3 - Broone; 4 - McChattering; 5 - McInvisible; 6 and on.......dito. I love elections, bring em on!
Subrosa correctly points out:
"As for Scottish labour they'll all be away on their holidays. Possibly some freebie villas in the sun somewhere."
Aye, like the Joke Mcconnell/Kirsty Wark Holiday Club!!! Though must say, haven´t seen too muck of Kirsty lately. Perhaps her biased, rude, imbalanced, hatchet job she attempted on Alex Salmond last year HAS come home to roost.
Saw her for for the first time in a long time hosting a literary quiz show for well read sorts on BBC4 just over a week ago and both the wife and I commented - simultaneously and out of the blue - as such!! My how the mighty have fallen!
I have a wish list of Liebore/Red tory MP´s I wish to see fall in 2009/2010 (whenever Gordy has the guts). In order: 1 - Broon; 2 - Darling; 3 - Broone; 4 - McChattering; 5 - McInvisible; 6 and on.......dito. I love elections, bring em on!
Posted by: Disgusted Dorothy, Glasgow on 7:02am Tue 8 Apr 08
Like I said yesterday , they cheered the 2007 budget to the rafters over the 2p cut.They jeered at the opposition.
Were they so thick that they did'nt notice then that the low paid would be worse off?
Or did they just not care?
Like I said yesterday , they cheered the 2007 budget to the rafters over the 2p cut.They jeered at the opposition.
Were they so thick that they did'nt notice then that the low paid would be worse off?
Or did they just not care?
Posted by: steve4349, larbet on 7:22am Tue 8 Apr 08
ed balls labour minister says it is to late to change the tax levels for the poor,he also has said in the commons to david cameron SO WHAT,when cameron stated the working man is paying the highest level of taxes ever under a labour government,a labour government that screws the poor,whilst the likes of mr balls and his wife ms cooper two members of the labour government collect £520k in expenses and wages from the tax payer last year, why is wendy not to be heard on this subject as she continues her fight for the poor and disadvantaged of scotland
ed balls labour minister says it is to late to change the tax levels for the poor,he also has said in the commons to david cameron SO WHAT,when cameron stated the working man is paying the highest level of taxes ever under a labour government,a labour government that screws the poor,whilst the likes of mr balls and his wife ms cooper two members of the labour government collect £520k in expenses and wages from the tax payer last year, why is wendy not to be heard on this subject as she continues her fight for the poor and disadvantaged of scotland
Posted by: Jimmy the Pie on 8:26am Tue 8 Apr 08
What do you think about all this [bold]Red Wendy[/bold] ??
As Scotland's only [bold]Socialist Party[/bold] (reborn) should you not be out on the streets protesting like true [bold]socialists[/bold] would do???
What about all the deprived weans you've promised to lay your life down for???
Come on[bold] Red Wendy[/bold] have you know thoughts on this tax change? A few choice words from [bold]Comrade Jackie[/bold] would do??
What do you think about all this
Red Wendy ??
As Scotland's only
Socialist Party (reborn) should you not be out on the streets protesting like true
socialists would do???
What about all the deprived weans you've promised to lay your life down for???
Come on
Red Wendy have you know thoughts on this tax change? A few choice words from
Comrade Jackie would do??
Posted by: Los Angeles, Edinburgh on 8:53am Tue 8 Apr 08
[quote]Defence Minister Bob Ainsworth said, " it is misleading and irresponsible in the extreme for you to use the arm forces as a political football in this way."[/quote] Unlike the invasion and occupation of Iraq which put our soldiers in jeopardy.
Defence Minister Bob Ainsworth said, " it is misleading and irresponsible in the extreme for you to use the arm forces as a political football in this way."
Unlike the invasion and occupation of Iraq which put our soldiers in jeopardy.
Posted by: Hamish McKropotkin, Bannockburn on 8:55am Tue 8 Apr 08
[quote][bold]jonny bond[/bold] wrote:
Want to know the results of the next election labour will lose scotland to the snp but not by enough for them to get a mandate to allow us to choose our destiny. They lose england to the torys because at least the voters down there want real tories in blue ties after browns fatal management of UK plc as bothPM and puppet master at no 11. Wales sorry when i went to the future, 2 whole years of procrastination on labours part before gordon wanted to seek a mandate to change the mess he made, I didn't bother checking wales but my guess is it wouldnt of been awash in a sea of red ribbons.[/quote] What a freak, the election allows you to choose your destiny you balloon.
jonny bond wrote:
Want to know the results of the next election labour will lose scotland to the snp but not by enough for them to get a mandate to allow us to choose our destiny. They lose england to the torys because at least the voters down there want real tories in blue ties after browns fatal management of UK plc as bothPM and puppet master at no 11. Wales sorry when i went to the future, 2 whole years of procrastination on labours part before gordon wanted to seek a mandate to change the mess he made, I didn't bother checking wales but my guess is it wouldnt of been awash in a sea of red ribbons.
What a freak, the election allows you to choose your destiny you balloon.
Posted by: Hamish McKropotkin, Bannockburn on 8:57am Tue 8 Apr 08
[quote][bold]jonny bond[/bold] wrote:
Want to know the results of the next election labour will lose scotland to the snp but not by enough for them to get a mandate to allow us to choose our destiny. They lose england to the torys because at least the voters down there want real tories in blue ties after browns fatal management of UK plc as bothPM and puppet master at no 11. Wales sorry when i went to the future, 2 whole years of procrastination on labours part before gordon wanted to seek a mandate to change the mess he made, I didn't bother checking wales but my guess is it wouldnt of been awash in a sea of red ribbons.[/quote] What a freak, the election allows you to choose your destiny you balloon.
jonny bond wrote:
Want to know the results of the next election labour will lose scotland to the snp but not by enough for them to get a mandate to allow us to choose our destiny. They lose england to the torys because at least the voters down there want real tories in blue ties after browns fatal management of UK plc as bothPM and puppet master at no 11. Wales sorry when i went to the future, 2 whole years of procrastination on labours part before gordon wanted to seek a mandate to change the mess he made, I didn't bother checking wales but my guess is it wouldnt of been awash in a sea of red ribbons.
What a freak, the election allows you to choose your destiny you balloon.
Posted by: Hamish McKropotkin, Bannockburn on 9:00am Tue 8 Apr 08
[quote][bold]Los Angeles[/bold] wrote:
[quote]Defence Minister Bob Ainsworth said, " it is misleading and irresponsible in the extreme for you to use the arm forces as a political football in this way."[/quote] Unlike the invasion and occupation of Iraq which put our soldiers in jeopardy.[/quote] LA
On the early shift today are we? What's our favourite Walter Mitty doing today? Professional footballer are we? Or what about something really brainy, ladies and gentlemen let me introduce Professor LA, chair of internet studies at St Andrews University. He's paid to be here, you know....
Los Angeles wrote:
Defence Minister Bob Ainsworth said, " it is misleading and irresponsible in the extreme for you to use the arm forces as a political football in this way."
Unlike the invasion and occupation of Iraq which put our soldiers in jeopardy.
LA
On the early shift today are we? What's our favourite Walter Mitty doing today? Professional footballer are we? Or what about something really brainy, ladies and gentlemen let me introduce Professor LA, chair of internet studies at St Andrews University. He's paid to be here, you know....
Posted by: Carmichael, Scotland on 9:07am Tue 8 Apr 08
I have been particularly intrigued by this story as it emerged over the weekend. I do my very best not to pre-judge others and I usually like to give people the benefit of the doubt but, frankly, when it comes to the Labour party, after its many years of political double-speak, I have learned to leave those ideals at the door. So, just as I laughed at the thought of Red Wendy of Clydeside and of Labour back-benchers concerning themselves with their traditional voters and values and now this seeming rebellion to protect our soldiers and our lowest paid. All of these events point to, at first, Brown being led by his party, and, second, Labour about to turn on itself and start to bicker and feud in public. Brown will be gone before too long but the bickering among Labour will continue for a long, long time and, in my opinion, will be just as damaging to their electoral prospects as this move to the right of the political spectrum.
All of this indicates a weak PM. We know that the strength of backbenchers is in correlation with the weakness of a PM. Blair or Thatcher, in their primes, would not have faced this level of revolt. This also indicates that Labour backbenchers are looking at their private polling and it shows a whole lot of them will be gone come the next General Election. Thus in the face of such difficulties, they plan to create a problems for this unpopular government. This is all in order to be able to go back to their constituents in a couple of years and declare themselves to be on the side of the people. To be ‘people’s politicians’ who stood up for the poor, for ‘our boys’, and for the people will all be declared with some earnestness, come the next election, in a loud and booming voice from Labour party meetings. Then, hopefully, a littler voice from the back will ask them why these same politicians sat on their hands when the gap between poor and rich grew as wide as we can ever remember? Why did they give tacit support to an illegal war in Iraq? Why did they support taking powers away from the people of Scotland’s Parliament? Hopefully, this littler voice will be heard because all of this political posturing by Labour MPs, in my opinion, has as much value and ingenuousness as Red Wendy of Clydeside.
I have been particularly intrigued by this story as it emerged over the weekend. I do my very best not to pre-judge others and I usually like to give people the benefit of the doubt but, frankly, when it comes to the Labour party, after its many years of political double-speak, I have learned to leave those ideals at the door. So, just as I laughed at the thought of Red Wendy of Clydeside and of Labour back-benchers concerning themselves with their traditional voters and values and now this seeming rebellion to protect our soldiers and our lowest paid. All of these events point to, at first, Brown being led by his party, and, second, Labour about to turn on itself and start to bicker and feud in public. Brown will be gone before too long but the bickering among Labour will continue for a long, long time and, in my opinion, will be just as damaging to their electoral prospects as this move to the right of the political spectrum.
All of this indicates a weak PM. We know that the strength of backbenchers is in correlation with the weakness of a PM. Blair or Thatcher, in their primes, would not have faced this level of revolt. This also indicates that Labour backbenchers are looking at their private polling and it shows a whole lot of them will be gone come the next General Election. Thus in the face of such difficulties, they plan to create a problems for this unpopular government. This is all in order to be able to go back to their constituents in a couple of years and declare themselves to be on the side of the people. To be ‘people’s politicians’ who stood up for the poor, for ‘our boys’, and for the people will all be declared with some earnestness, come the next election, in a loud and booming voice from Labour party meetings. Then, hopefully, a littler voice from the back will ask them why these same politicians sat on their hands when the gap between poor and rich grew as wide as we can ever remember? Why did they give tacit support to an illegal war in Iraq? Why did they support taking powers away from the people of Scotland’s Parliament? Hopefully, this littler voice will be heard because all of this political posturing by Labour MPs, in my opinion, has as much value and ingenuousness as Red Wendy of Clydeside.
Posted by: ex labour voter, glasgow on 9:08am Tue 8 Apr 08
The Prime Minister said in Oxford that the increase in child benefit, child tax credit and the winter fuel allowance meant that overall people would be better off.
Broon stuff fails to recognise that people are not as daft as he thinks.
Higher heating costs, higher food bills' higher petrol and deisel costs, vat on kids clothes and to top it all he wacks the poorest in society with more tax. Broon is an incompetent oaf, a control freak who is out of control.
Bring on an election COWARD.
This labour parasite even gets the tax payer to pay for washing his clothes.
The Prime Minister said in Oxford that the increase in child benefit, child tax credit and the winter fuel allowance meant that overall people would be better off.
Broon stuff fails to recognise that people are not as daft as he thinks.
Higher heating costs, higher food bills' higher petrol and deisel costs, vat on kids clothes and to top it all he wacks the poorest in society with more tax. Broon is an incompetent oaf, a control freak who is out of control.
Bring on an election COWARD.
This labour parasite even gets the tax payer to pay for washing his clothes.
Posted by: Hamish McKropotkin, Bannockburn on 9:11am Tue 8 Apr 08
Carmichael,
Give yourself a pat on the back. You've managed not to pre-judge anyone really well.
Carmichael,
Give yourself a pat on the back. You've managed not to pre-judge anyone really well.
Posted by: Carmichael, Scotland on 9:14am Tue 8 Apr 08
Hi Hamaish McKropotkin,
Like I said, I have learned, after long and disappointing betrayals of trust, to leave such ideals at the door when discussing the motivations of Labour and those at the top of the Labour party ;)
Hi Hamaish McKropotkin,
Like I said, I have learned, after long and disappointing betrayals of trust, to leave such ideals at the door when discussing the motivations of Labour and those at the top of the Labour party ;)
Posted by: Wardog, Buckie on 9:17am Tue 8 Apr 08
jonny bond, glasgow on 3:08am today
Jonnny, as i pointed out to you yesterday, the 10% rate only applied to the first £2320 after your personal allowance, effectively £232.
You need to no add this and deduct the 2% 'saving' that brown has proposed on the rest of the income after personal allowance.
i.e.
[bold]Before Sunday[/bold]
Earning £15000
Taxable Income = 15000 - 5,225 = 10% of £232 + 22% of 7455
Income tax = £1872 (232+ 1640)
[bold]After Sunday[/bold]
Earning £15000
Taxable Income = 15000 - 5,435 = 20% of £9565
Income tax = £1913
[bold]DIFFERENCE £41 WORSE OFF[/bold]
That there should be any deduction at all is scandalous, try the same equation with someone on [bold]£30k[/bold] ......
Earning £30000
Taxable Income = 30000 - 5,225 = 10% of £2320 + 22% of 7455
Income tax = £5172 (232+ 4940)
[bold]After Sunday[/bold]
Earning £30000
Taxable Income = 30000 - 5,435 = 20% of £9565
Income tax = £4913
[bold]DIFFERENCE £259 BETTER OFF[/bold]
jonny bond, glasgow on 3:08am today
Jonnny, as i pointed out to you yesterday, the 10% rate only applied to the first £2320 after your personal allowance, effectively £232.
You need to no add this and deduct the 2% 'saving' that brown has proposed on the rest of the income after personal allowance.
i.e.
Before Sunday
Earning £15000
Taxable Income = 15000 - 5,225 = 10% of £232 + 22% of 7455
Income tax = £1872 (232+ 1640)
After Sunday
Earning £15000
Taxable Income = 15000 - 5,435 = 20% of £9565
Income tax = £1913
DIFFERENCE £41 WORSE OFF
That there should be any deduction at all is scandalous, try the same equation with someone on
£30k ......
Earning £30000
Taxable Income = 30000 - 5,225 = 10% of £2320 + 22% of 7455
Income tax = £5172 (232+ 4940)
After Sunday
Earning £30000
Taxable Income = 30000 - 5,435 = 20% of £9565
Income tax = £4913
DIFFERENCE £259 BETTER OFF
Posted by: Politically-incorrec
t Man, Glasgow on 9:22am Tue 8 Apr 08
jonny bond, glasgow on 3:08am today
[quote]p.s I hate torys they were chased out this country and I didn't shed a tear till they regained a foothold. I just never expected them to takeover the labour party like[/quote]
Almost correct. Do some research on Bilderberg and see how many Labour politicians have been invited to attend the meetings and you will see why the Labour party has lurched to the right. It will also show you why Ed Balls will be next Chancellor of the Exchequer.
jonny bond, glasgow on 3:08am today
p.s I hate torys they were chased out this country and I didn't shed a tear till they regained a foothold. I just never expected them to takeover the labour party like
Almost correct. Do some research on Bilderberg and see how many Labour politicians have been invited to attend the meetings and you will see why the Labour party has lurched to the right. It will also show you why Ed Balls will be next Chancellor of the Exchequer.
Posted by: Hamish McKropotkin, Bannockburn on 9:23am Tue 8 Apr 08
Carmichael,
You should never trust any of the mainstream parties. Just look at the second class drivel their cyberhacks spout. Barely understood economics, barrack room lawyers and assorted loudmouths displaying dismaying ignorance on almost every subject they fail to understand but feel compelled to comment on. This is what passes for debate on a national newspaper's website. It's enough to make a working class hero like me weep.
If you've had enough of the cynicism and betrayal of the established and virulently ant-working class parties why not support our heroic struggle here in bannockurn?
AVANTI!
Carmichael,
You should never trust any of the mainstream parties. Just look at the second class drivel their cyberhacks spout. Barely understood economics, barrack room lawyers and assorted loudmouths displaying dismaying ignorance on almost every subject they fail to understand but feel compelled to comment on. This is what passes for debate on a national newspaper's website. It's enough to make a working class hero like me weep.
If you've had enough of the cynicism and betrayal of the established and virulently ant-working class parties why not support our heroic struggle here in bannockurn?
AVANTI!
Posted by: Carmichael, Scotland on 9:27am Tue 8 Apr 08
Hi Hamish McKropotkin,
If you set out a manifesto come the next election I promise to give it my full consideration ;)
But, I have only ever driven past Bannockburn, so does that mean I'm excluded? Darn, worse luck.
Hi Hamish McKropotkin,
If you set out a manifesto come the next election I promise to give it my full consideration ;)
But, I have only ever driven past Bannockburn, so does that mean I'm excluded? Darn, worse luck.
Posted by: Hamish McKropotkin, Bannockburn on 9:31am Tue 8 Apr 08
Carmichael,
We're not exclusive here in the workers paradise which is the independent peoples republic of bannockburn, you're always welcome.
My cadres and I won't be participating in anything as decadently bourgeios as an election. As Ken Livingstone so astutely put it: If voting changed anything they'd ban it.
AVANTI
Carmichael,
We're not exclusive here in the workers paradise which is the independent peoples republic of bannockburn, you're always welcome.
My cadres and I won't be participating in anything as decadently bourgeios as an election. As Ken Livingstone so astutely put it: If voting changed anything they'd ban it.
AVANTI
Posted by: sam, greenock on 9:41am Tue 8 Apr 08
Where's that fennie "Proud To Be Sh@t On" when there's the indefensible to be defended?
Where's that fennie "Proud To Be Sh@t On" when there's the indefensible to be defended?
Posted by: Carmichael, Scotland on 9:42am Tue 8 Apr 08
Hi Hamish,
Well, I wish you all the best in your struggle. I like the idea about not participating in elections. I find it to be a time when 90% of those participating give the other 10% a bad name.
Hi Hamish,
Well, I wish you all the best in your struggle. I like the idea about not participating in elections. I find it to be a time when 90% of those participating give the other 10% a bad name.
Posted by: David Alexander on 9:46am Tue 8 Apr 08
From today's Telegraph:
[quote]In private, ministers who were once in awe of Mr Brown have started complaining about their boss. "It's dither, dither, dither," sighs one. An aide claims, blithely: "It's like a Shakespearean tragedy. Gordon's not up to the job."
The Civil Service is starting to despair, with senior mandarins lamenting that they have no sense of where the Government is going. As if this were not bad enough, Mr Brown's advisers at Number 10 are not only fighting like ferrets in a sack, they are also briefing details to the press.
Even those loyal to the Prime Minister admit things are not going as well as they could be. "It's terrible," says one, "The truth is, Gordon's got to change or we'll lose the next general election."[/quote]
From the Times:
[quote]Every week Mr Cameron plugs away with his “dither and delay” strategy and it is beginning to stick. For, like all the best slurs, there is truth in it. Just as alarmingly for No 10, there also seems to be an almost uncanny growing resemblance between Mr Brown and Mr Bean.
Take, for instance, this week's little local difficulty with the Palace. The “Gordon gets lost at Windsor Dinner” story was the the main topic among hacks as we waited for the Brown-Sarkozy press conference. It raced round the room like wildfire, causing much mirth and eye-widening excitement.
We all heard about how the Queen, who apparently loves a little drama, had noted drily: “The Prime Minister seems to have got lost.” The Sarkozy leant forward to say something, only to be told that the flower arrangement was bugged. Then he turned to Carla and said: “That's Gordon!”
No, that's not Gordon. That's Mr Bean. A bumbling man who can't even get from his car to a dinner with the Queen. A man who needs a sat-nav to find a chair. A man who specialises in creating chaos out of order. Dither, dither, dither. Oh dear, oh dear. Mr Bean is going to have to do something about this. Where's Stalin when you need him? Perhaps it's time to set up another review.[/quote]
Two small insights but all very revealing.
Its all falling apart.
From today's Telegraph:
In private, ministers who were once in awe of Mr Brown have started complaining about their boss. "It's dither, dither, dither," sighs one. An aide claims, blithely: "It's like a Shakespearean tragedy. Gordon's not up to the job."
The Civil Service is starting to despair, with senior mandarins lamenting that they have no sense of where the Government is going. As if this were not bad enough, Mr Brown's advisers at Number 10 are not only fighting like ferrets in a sack, they are also briefing details to the press.
Even those loyal to the Prime Minister admit things are not going as well as they could be. "It's terrible," says one, "The truth is, Gordon's got to change or we'll lose the next general election."
From the Times:
Every week Mr Cameron plugs away with his “dither and delay” strategy and it is beginning to stick. For, like all the best slurs, there is truth in it. Just as alarmingly for No 10, there also seems to be an almost uncanny growing resemblance between Mr Brown and Mr Bean.
Take, for instance, this week's little local difficulty with the Palace. The “Gordon gets lost at Windsor Dinner” story was the the main topic among hacks as we waited for the Brown-Sarkozy press conference. It raced round the room like wildfire, causing much mirth and eye-widening excitement.
We all heard about how the Queen, who apparently loves a little drama, had noted drily: “The Prime Minister seems to have got lost.” The Sarkozy leant forward to say something, only to be told that the flower arrangement was bugged. Then he turned to Carla and said: “That's Gordon!”
No, that's not Gordon. That's Mr Bean. A bumbling man who can't even get from his car to a dinner with the Queen. A man who needs a sat-nav to find a chair. A man who specialises in creating chaos out of order. Dither, dither, dither. Oh dear, oh dear. Mr Bean is going to have to do something about this. Where's Stalin when you need him? Perhaps it's time to set up another review.
Two small insights but all very revealing.
Its all falling apart.
Posted by: subrosa on 9:47am Tue 8 Apr 08
[italic]Posted by: Jock Politicaljunkie, Glasgow on 5:46am today saw her for for the first time in a long time hosting a literary quiz show for well read sorts on BBC4 just over a week ago and both the wife and I commented - simultaneously and out of the blue - as such!! My how the mighty have fallen![/italic]
I happen to see that too Jock. She didn't look at all comfortable did she. My thoughts mirrored yours :)
Posted by: Jock Politicaljunkie, Glasgow on 5:46am today saw her for for the first time in a long time hosting a literary quiz show for well read sorts on BBC4 just over a week ago and both the wife and I commented - simultaneously and out of the blue - as such!! My how the mighty have fallen!
I happen to see that too Jock. She didn't look at all comfortable did she. My thoughts mirrored yours :)
Posted by: The Wise One, Glasgow on 9:51am Tue 8 Apr 08
[bold]The Prime Minister said in Oxford that the increase in child benefit, child tax credit and the winter fuel allowance meant that overall people would be better off.[/bold]
On Newsnight last night, a Treasury Minister, when pushed by Paxman, admitted that they knew over 5 million low earners would be disadvantaged by the removal of the 10p rate.
She then tried to justify this by saying that the decision was made so that they could take 250,000 children out of poverty. Eh?
She then re-iterated that pensioners tax allowances had increased, thus in effect giving them more income.
- Would that be the same pensioners who are living off the state pension which amounts to around £5000 per annum and therefore didn't pay tax anyway! Probably living on Income Support.
- Woud that be the same pensioners who, we are constantly reminded, are living on the poverty line, unable to heat their homes and have 3 proper meals a day.
You can raise their tax threshold all you want, but if they don't have the income, it is just another slight of hand by Gordon Brown.
This same minister also admitted that it would affect those aged between 60 -64, and those below 25. This is the very same groups targetted by this government to either enter into work or remain in employment. This will not happen if they are taxed more than others.
I don't know what is worse: The fact they have introduced this new system OR the fact we have ministers who are prepared to justify it.
Regrettably, they appear to be willing to ride the storm. Hopefully, the May elections will give them the jolt the need.
Final point: Why have we not heard from Trade Union leaders on this? They are supposed to stand up for the lowest paid in our society.
The Prime Minister said in Oxford that the increase in child benefit, child tax credit and the winter fuel allowance meant that overall people would be better off.
On Newsnight last night, a Treasury Minister, when pushed by Paxman, admitted that they knew over 5 million low earners would be disadvantaged by the removal of the 10p rate.
She then tried to justify this by saying that the decision was made so that they could take 250,000 children out of poverty. Eh?
She then re-iterated that pensioners tax allowances had increased, thus in effect giving them more income.
- Would that be the same pensioners who are living off the state pension which amounts to around £5000 per annum and therefore didn't pay tax anyway! Probably living on Income Support.
- Woud that be the same pensioners who, we are constantly reminded, are living on the poverty line, unable to heat their homes and have 3 proper meals a day.
You can raise their tax threshold all you want, but if they don't have the income, it is just another slight of hand by Gordon Brown.
This same minister also admitted that it would affect those aged between 60 -64, and those below 25. This is the very same groups targetted by this government to either enter into work or remain in employment. This will not happen if they are taxed more than others.
I don't know what is worse: The fact they have introduced this new system OR the fact we have ministers who are prepared to justify it.
Regrettably, they appear to be willing to ride the storm. Hopefully, the May elections will give them the jolt the need.
Final point: Why have we not heard from Trade Union leaders on this? They are supposed to stand up for the lowest paid in our society.
Posted by: Hamish McKropotkin, Bannockburn on 10:00am Tue 8 Apr 08
[quote][bold]David Alexander[/bold] wrote:
From today's Telegraph: [quote]In private, ministers who were once in awe of Mr Brown have started complaining about their boss. "It's dither, dither, dither," sighs one. An aide claims, blithely: "It's like a Shakespearean tragedy. Gordon's not up to the job." The Civil Service is starting to despair, with senior mandarins lamenting that they have no sense of where the Government is going. As if this were not bad enough, Mr Brown's advisers at Number 10 are not only fighting like ferrets in a sack, they are also briefing details to the press. Even those loyal to the Prime Minister admit things are not going as well as they could be. "It's terrible," says one, "The truth is, Gordon's got to change or we'll lose the next general election."[/quote] From the Times: [quote]Every week Mr Cameron plugs away with his “dither and delay” strategy and it is beginning to stick. For, like all the best slurs, there is truth in it. Just as alarmingly for No 10, there also seems to be an almost uncanny growing resemblance between Mr Brown and Mr Bean. Take, for instance, this week's little local difficulty with the Palace. The “Gordon gets lost at Windsor Dinner” story was the the main topic among hacks as we waited for the Brown-Sarkozy press conference. It raced round the room like wildfire, causing much mirth and eye-widening excitement. We all heard about how the Queen, who apparently loves a little drama, had noted drily: “The Prime Minister seems to have got lost.” The Sarkozy leant forward to say something, only to be told that the flower arrangement was bugged. Then he turned to Carla and said: “That's Gordon!” No, that's not Gordon. That's Mr Bean. A bumbling man who can't even get from his car to a dinner with the Queen. A man who needs a sat-nav to find a chair. A man who specialises in creating chaos out of order. Dither, dither, dither. Oh dear, oh dear. Mr Bean is going to have to do something about this. Where's Stalin when you need him? Perhaps it's time to set up another review.[/quote] Two small insights but all very revealing. Its all falling apart.[/quote] David,
What exactly is 'revealing' about two tory hacks attacking Labour in their respective rightwing rags?
It's like the SNP being attacked in the Daily Record, not exactly earth shattering is it?
David Alexander wrote:
From today's Telegraph: In private, ministers who were once in awe of Mr Brown have started complaining about their boss. "It's dither, dither, dither," sighs one. An aide claims, blithely: "It's like a Shakespearean tragedy. Gordon's not up to the job." The Civil Service is starting to despair, with senior mandarins lamenting that they have no sense of where the Government is going. As if this were not bad enough, Mr Brown's advisers at Number 10 are not only fighting like ferrets in a sack, they are also briefing details to the press. Even those loyal to the Prime Minister admit things are not going as well as they could be. "It's terrible," says one, "The truth is, Gordon's got to change or we'll lose the next general election."
From the Times: Every week Mr Cameron plugs away with his “dither and delay” strategy and it is beginning to stick. For, like all the best slurs, there is truth in it. Just as alarmingly for No 10, there also seems to be an almost uncanny growing resemblance between Mr Brown and Mr Bean. Take, for instance, this week's little local difficulty with the Palace. The “Gordon gets lost at Windsor Dinner” story was the the main topic among hacks as we waited for the Brown-Sarkozy press conference. It raced round the room like wildfire, causing much mirth and eye-widening excitement. We all heard about how the Queen, who apparently loves a little drama, had noted drily: “The Prime Minister seems to have got lost.” The Sarkozy leant forward to say something, only to be told that the flower arrangement was bugged. Then he turned to Carla and said: “That's Gordon!” No, that's not Gordon. That's Mr Bean. A bumbling man who can't even get from his car to a dinner with the Queen. A man who needs a sat-nav to find a chair. A man who specialises in creating chaos out of order. Dither, dither, dither. Oh dear, oh dear. Mr Bean is going to have to do something about this. Where's Stalin when you need him? Perhaps it's time to set up another review.
Two small insights but all very revealing. Its all falling apart.
David,
What exactly is 'revealing' about two tory hacks attacking Labour in their respective rightwing rags?
It's like the SNP being attacked in the Daily Record, not exactly earth shattering is it?
Posted by: Hamish McKropotkin, Bannockburn on 10:04am Tue 8 Apr 08
OMG David, I know what's revealing here. A nationalist agreeing with a rightwing tory. Again.
OMG David, I know what's revealing here. A nationalist agreeing with a rightwing tory. Again.
Posted by: AyrshireScot, South Ayrshire on 10:15am Tue 8 Apr 08
[quote][bold]Hamish McKropotkin[/bold] wrote:
OMG David, I know what's revealing here. A nationalist agreeing with a rightwing tory. Again.[/quote] Yes. And Labour increasing the taxes on the lowest paid, including our soldiers, while cutting inheritance tax for millionaire's reveals little new.
What do you think of the 4000 post office closures, the sacking of disabled workers at Remploy and the 12,000 DWP sackings, Hamish?
Hamish McKropotkin wrote:
OMG David, I know what's revealing here. A nationalist agreeing with a rightwing tory. Again.
Yes. And Labour increasing the taxes on the lowest paid, including our soldiers, while cutting inheritance tax for millionaire's reveals little new.
What do you think of the 4000 post office closures, the sacking of disabled workers at Remploy and the 12,000 DWP sackings, Hamish?
Posted by: Hamish McKropotkin, Bannockburn on 10:20am Tue 8 Apr 08
Ayrshire
Labour are scum, we all know that. Now, are you going to defend the Thatcherite cuts up in Aberdeen?
Ayrshire
Labour are scum, we all know that. Now, are you going to defend the Thatcherite cuts up in Aberdeen?
Posted by: David Alexander on 10:23am Tue 8 Apr 08
Chairman Hamish
The gemmes a bogey.
Find me a newspaper that praises him.
Tick, tock, tick...
Chairman Hamish
The gemmes a bogey.
Find me a newspaper that praises him.
Tick, tock, tick...
Posted by: AyrshireScot, South Ayrshire on 10:24am Tue 8 Apr 08
[quote][bold]Hamish McKropotkin[/bold] wrote:
Ayrshire Labour are scum, we all know that. Now, are you going to defend the Thatcherite cuts up in Aberdeen? [/quote] No one can defend a council running up a £50 million defecit from 2001-2007.
Hamish McKropotkin wrote:
Ayrshire Labour are scum, we all know that. Now, are you going to defend the Thatcherite cuts up in Aberdeen?
No one can defend a council running up a £50 million defecit from 2001-2007.
Posted by: Los Angeles, Edinburgh on 10:26am Tue 8 Apr 08
Hamish Krapology[quote]Carmichael, You should never trust any of the mainstream parties[/quote] Our BNP thug is practising his typing again. Here he is quoting him self:[quote]Just look at the second class drivel their cyberhacks spout.[/quote] [quote]Barely understood economics,[/quote] [quote]barrack room lawyers[/quote] [quote]a loudmouth displaying dismaying ignorance[/quote] [quote]This is what passes for debate[/quote] Man, there's nothing like the spectacle of hanging your self in public.
Hamish Krapology
Carmichael, You should never trust any of the mainstream parties
Our BNP thug is practising his typing again. Here he is quoting him self:
Just look at the second class drivel their cyberhacks spout.
Barely understood economics,
barrack room lawyers
a loudmouth displaying dismaying ignorance
This is what passes for debate
Man, there's nothing like the spectacle of hanging your self in public.
Posted by: Wardog, Buckie on 10:27am Tue 8 Apr 08
[quote][bold]Hamish McKropotkin[/bold] wrote:
Ayrshire
Labour are scum, we all know that. Now, are you going to defend the Thatcherite cuts up in Aberdeen? [/quote]
Defned what, the council is £27M overspent.
In the world of The Peopl'es Toielt of Bannckbum, how would such a probklem be solved?
Hiking Council tax by £300 per household, effectively crippling the very people that we should be helping but lining the pockets of the unions.
Government bailing out Aberdeen to the tune of £27M every year?
Or hold a Audit Scotland Public Hearing to expose exactly the tur causes of the spending deficit and discuss where savings might be reviewed....
Please do tell us how the People's (re)Pubic would solve this
Hamish McKropotkin wrote:
Ayrshire
Labour are scum, we all know that. Now, are you going to defend the Thatcherite cuts up in Aberdeen?
Defned what, the council is £27M overspent.
In the world of The Peopl'es Toielt of Bannckbum, how would such a probklem be solved?
Hiking Council tax by £300 per household, effectively crippling the very people that we should be helping but lining the pockets of the unions.
Government bailing out Aberdeen to the tune of £27M every year?
Or hold a Audit Scotland Public Hearing to expose exactly the tur causes of the spending deficit and discuss where savings might be reviewed....
Please do tell us how the People's (re)Pubic would solve this
Posted by: David Alexander on 10:28am Tue 8 Apr 08
Chairman
The thing about Brown is that these stories are true and that's without mentioning the large blob of orange makeup on his coupon the other day.
He is a figure of fun; Sarkozy thinks he is a joke, the Queen thinks he is a joke, we all do.
Remember John Major and the peas? The story wasn't even true but he had become a figure of fun and that was that.
Chairman
The thing about Brown is that these stories are true and that's without mentioning the large blob of orange makeup on his coupon the other day.
He is a figure of fun; Sarkozy thinks he is a joke, the Queen thinks he is a joke, we all do.
Remember John Major and the peas? The story wasn't even true but he had become a figure of fun and that was that.
Posted by: Hamish McKropotkin, Bannockburn on 10:32am Tue 8 Apr 08
Walter Mitty,
The only fascist thug around here is your alter ego LA, professional journalist or deluded nobody?
Walter Mitty,
The only fascist thug around here is your alter ego LA, professional journalist or deluded nobody?
Posted by: Wen D, Inversnecky on 10:33am Tue 8 Apr 08
Carmichael wrote
Then, hopefully, a littler voice from the back will ask them why these same politicians sat on their hands when the gap between poor and rich grew as wide as we can ever remember? Why did they give tacit support to an illegal war in Iraq? Why did they support taking powers away from the people of Scotland’s Parliament? Hopefully, this littler voice will be heard because all of this political posturing by Labour MPs, in my opinion, has as much value and ingenuousness as Red Wendy of Clydeside."
Unfortunately, Carmichael, your hopes will end in failure!
The reason? Why, this is Scotland, remember? The place where all reasoning flies out of the window!
The numpties who usually vote nulab will continue to do so, EVEN if the policy of the numpty party was to increase income tax by 500% for all earning less than £20k per year!
These numpties usually cannot spell their own names, let alone ponder what is actually going on around them!
Sorry to **** your balloon, but this is, sadly, the state of this country today. Think I'm joking?
Carmichael wrote
Then, hopefully, a littler voice from the back will ask them why these same politicians sat on their hands when the gap between poor and rich grew as wide as we can ever remember? Why did they give tacit support to an illegal war in Iraq? Why did they support taking powers away from the people of Scotland’s Parliament? Hopefully, this littler voice will be heard because all of this political posturing by Labour MPs, in my opinion, has as much value and ingenuousness as Red Wendy of Clydeside."
Unfortunately, Carmichael, your hopes will end in failure!
The reason? Why, this is Scotland, remember? The place where all reasoning flies out of the window!
The numpties who usually vote nulab will continue to do so, EVEN if the policy of the numpty party was to increase income tax by 500% for all earning less than £20k per year!
These numpties usually cannot spell their own names, let alone ponder what is actually going on around them!
Sorry to **** your balloon, but this is, sadly, the state of this country today. Think I'm joking?
Posted by: Hamish McKropotkin, Bannockburn on 10:36am Tue 8 Apr 08
Wardog,
More personal mud slinging, I see. Trying to defend the indefensible, eh? It must be heartbreaking for all you self-righteous nats who have been boring for Britain about your political purity having to spout neo-Thacherite p!sh to defend the obvious repurcussions of your uncosted and unworkable elction promises. As usual it is the most vulnerable who pay for irresponsible political bribes.
Here's an easy formula: Cut taxes = cut services.
Wardog,
More personal mud slinging, I see. Trying to defend the indefensible, eh? It must be heartbreaking for all you self-righteous nats who have been boring for Britain about your political purity having to spout neo-Thacherite p!sh to defend the obvious repurcussions of your uncosted and unworkable elction promises. As usual it is the most vulnerable who pay for irresponsible political bribes.
Here's an easy formula: Cut taxes = cut services.
Posted by: Hamish McKropotkin, Bannockburn on 10:36am Tue 8 Apr 08
[quote][bold]Wen D[/bold] wrote:
Carmichael wrote Then, hopefully, a littler voice from the back will ask them why these same politicians sat on their hands when the gap between poor and rich grew as wide as we can ever remember? Why did they give tacit support to an illegal war in Iraq? Why did they support taking powers away from the people of Scotland’s Parliament? Hopefully, this littler voice will be heard because all of this political posturing by Labour MPs, in my opinion, has as much value and ingenuousness as Red Wendy of Clydeside." Unfortunately, Carmichael, your hopes will end in failure! The reason? Why, this is Scotland, remember? The place where all reasoning flies out of the window! The numpties who usually vote nulab will continue to do so, EVEN if the policy of the numpty party was to increase income tax by 500% for all earning less than £20k per year! These numpties usually cannot spell their own names, let alone ponder what is actually
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