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Might not be on her agenda but its for us the electorate to decide the agenda PS Wendy broke the law-we can say this forever

The cracks are showing ind slab ranks and the SNP isn't even pushing just now,--------who says politico's don't bother with opinion polls

Agree Colin It is up to the Scottish electorate to decide the agenda - not Windy's review/commission which means NOTHING unless it is 'tested' by the Scottish electorate. One day - maybe, just maybe- that may just sink in!

[quote]There was a warning some MPs are going against their own Downing Street leadership, undermining the party in the Scottish Parliament, and that they need to learn the lesson from [bold]MSPs of being more disciplined.[/bold] [/quote] Really? Setting fire to curtains, not declaring free burgers from McDonalds, soliciting illegal cash from a property tycoon, admitting law-breaking .... On second thoughts, they are more disciplined - they are regimented in their nepotism, sleaze and corruption.

Labour's Holyrood leader Wendy Alexander, who said it is [bold]"highly unlikely"[/bold] Labour will agree to a referendum oooh new labour speak for we may change our mind at some time so im going to say highly unlikely........oooo oooooo

the referendum is going to be after the election that broon calls. if they get elected i betcha.

there was me thinking douglas had got his p45 what with the no blogging recently and then i couldnt find his name on any stories then bing up his name pops again. herald is douglas on light duties then has he hurt his brain again? douglas dont try that being a thinking man thing again its obviously no good fur ye. Just keep following the instructions from red wendy.

anyway for anyone who also nips over to the scotsman noo and again go here. http://www.pledgeban k.com/binthescotsman

[quote]Alexander insists referendum is not on agenda[/quote] She bluhdy well said it was last September. www.snp.org/node/136 24 "There will be a referendum in 2010." By the way, antidisestablishment arianism, pneumonoultramicrosc opicsilicovolcanocon iosis and floccinaucinihilipil ification. (Just wanted to see how the Herald comments section would break those words apart and look a bit silly having line breaks which kill links.)

Karin--- I stopped buying it last week. The Beano is more informative.

"However, a Scotland Office spokesman said the suggestion was "laughable" and that ministers "stand four-square behind the strategy" of Labour's Holyrood leader Wendy Alexander, " Ought she to be worried by this? I'm just thinking that having Mr. Brown and Co. behind me might make me somewhat concerned....

I said it over a week ago, and I will say it again. Do it, Michael, just do it! Come over to the light. You have always been very close. Bring Margaret & Jack & Chorry & Vince M & Joe E and the rest, you know it makes sense. Be the1st.

[quote]One Whitehall source commented yesterday: "It's an option people talk about, but not with any urgency. We can win a referendum at any time.[/quote] How complacent. A clear sign that Labour's time in office is drawing to a close. Or was the Whitehall source the tea lady?

I think its only a matter of months now that we could see a complete break up of the Labour party in Scotland. Reason being is this. Politicians are great at talking up policies, but if the policies are unpopular they will at first brass it out, then they , like nomads, will follow the caravan of the populus. We have the English council elections in May (which includes the London Mayoral elections) Yes nothing to do with Scotland but will serve as an indicator of how the English voter feels. Its a racing certainty that Labour are going to get an all mighty kicking, including the possible defeat of Ken Livingstone. This will have the effect of telling Labour MSP's they better start thinking about Scotland as it all indicates that the Tories will win the next general election, which is in the next 2 years. After May there is likely to be pressure on Brown to resign, if that happens, then Wendy Alexanders 'support group' disappears in a puff of smoke, she will have no one to tell her what to do. then the Labour party in Scotland start folding in on itself, with certain MSP's jostling to be leader. This already happens, but is held in check by Brown and the rest in Westminster. There is a likely hood of defections , or perhaps a break away Labour group in Holyrood that favours referendum and listening to the people of Scotland ( a belated measure to save there own political careers). As for the next general election which will be held either in 2009 or 2010, unless a miracle happens, there will be a mass culling of Scottish Labour MP's, which will include the likes of Alistair Darling and Des Browne

I have heard an unsubstantiated report that Calman, Alexander, Goldie and Stephen, accompanied by a couple of unidentified but disreputable-looking associates, were seen at Heathrow this morning boarding a plane for Zimbabwe. Seems they want to do some first hand research into the methods of the acknowledged world experts in electoral fraud and election rigging.

there will be a referendum in 2010 says wendy. there will no longer be a referendum, as labour do not want to talk about democratic things like that. no need to vote when we know the result etc etc. even mugabe had a vote. although he cannot accept results either. perhaps brown and mugabe have more in common than we realised in terms of accepting the will of the people..

as oil revenue goes into consolidated revenue, i.e. reserves, and not into scottish revenue, then surely very easy to argue that scottish money is being used to pay for english prisons. if oil revenue goes into the scottish column then let the english have their prisons, but this is further diminution of revenue under stealth. policy seems to be, vote labour or we starve you of your supplies. hang on!, more mugabe tactics from brown, there is a pattern emerging here.

Aye - redc;liffe62 - a pattern indeed. I can see the day coming soon that Scots will have to start a campaign of civil disobedience against this openly corrupt and despotic Westminster gang. They surely know Holyrood's vulnerabilities as they were the ones who created that con. But we the people know Westminster's vulnerabilities. - they cannot govern without the active consent and participation of the masses. Their days are numbered.

"Labours Holyrood leadership yesterday slapped down Westminster MPs". Douglas Frasers first line was enough for me, HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA iS THIS THE TAIL TRYING TO WAG THE DOG HA HA HA HA HA HA HA

Creative acountancy, has been standard practice with GB since the 3rd May 2007. Just like the buried McCrone report, we are in control! and "Consolidated Revenue"

Currently, Labour in Scotland are unelectable, bar a few diehard and boozed to th eyeballs constituencies. They have no chboice but to alter their stance and policies or they will be wiped out. Alexander is leading them over a cliff.

Imagine a country where the ruling political parties were riddled with acknowledged financial irregularities, where the representatives openly abuse their positions and migrate to well-paid jobs in the commercial sector on or before retirement, where the laws of the land are suspended when it comes to punishing their financial irregularities, where nepotism is rife, where electoral fraud is common, where parliament merely “rubber stamps” decisions taken in secret by a cabal of “placemen”, where the prime minister can start a war based on falsehoods and continue to deny responsibility, where tax-payers money is used to bolster failing private business, where the public cannot reverse unpopular decisions, where the right to vote on significant changes in sovereignty is with-held, where the state pension is inadequate, where inflation is actually 3 times the government estimate, where the prisons are so full that criminals are discharged into the community in the certain knowledge that they will re-offend, where a minister has to wear a stab-proof vest when walking the streets of her own constituency, where 50% of children leaving primary school are functionally illiterate, where 95% of the wealth is controlled by 1% of the people, where personal debt is greater than GNP and the weather is s’hite! Ring any bells?

[quote][bold]Politically-incorrect Man[/bold] wrote: Imagine a country where the ruling political parties were riddled with acknowledged financial irregularities, where the representatives openly abuse their positions and migrate to well-paid jobs in the commercial sector on or before retirement, where the laws of the land are suspended when it comes to punishing their financial irregularities, where nepotism is rife, where electoral fraud is common, where parliament merely “rubber stamps” decisions taken in secret by a cabal of “placemen”, where the prime minister can start a war based on falsehoods and continue to deny responsibility, where tax-payers money is used to bolster failing private business, where the public cannot reverse unpopular decisions, where the right to vote on significant changes in sovereignty is with-held, where the state pension is inadequate, where inflation is actually 3 times the government estimate, where the prisons are so full that criminals are discharged into the community in the certain knowledge that they will re-offend, where a minister has to wear a stab-proof vest when walking the streets of her own constituency, where 50% of children leaving primary school are functionally illiterate, where 95% of the wealth is controlled by 1% of the people, where personal debt is greater than GNP and the weather is s’hite! Ring any bells? [/quote] Nah, You'll have to give us easier clues, just in case we mistakenly think you're on about the UK

Wee wee wendy does not want Independence for Scotland so she say,s there will be no referendum,wee wee wendy thinks it is right and proper for her westmonster masters to withhold £400 million of council TAX BENEFIT from the Sottish people.in the case of LIT. Wee wee wendy thinks it is ok for her to break the law. WEE WEE WENDY IS ON THE WAY OUT.

"Her message is a warning to back-bench MPs..." As Ms. Alexander leader of the Labour group of MSP's in the Scottish Parliament not the fictional Scottish Leader of the mythical Scottish Labour Party she has no authority either to slap down Scottish MP's or to dismiss a referendum. She's being used as Gordon Brown's mouthpiece because that's the only authority she has in the Labour Party. Either Mr. Broon hasn't the courage to slap down his MP's himself or he's leaving himself wriggle room to call a referendum. I would go with the first option.

[quote][bold]frank mcbride[/bold] wrote: I said it over a week ago, and I will say it again. Do it, Michael, just do it! Come over to the light. You have always been very close. Bring Margaret & Jack & Chorry & Vince M & Joe E and the rest, you know it makes sense. Be the1st.[/quote] This is a very interesting post. Nobody remembers who comes second. Those who have Scotland's interests at heart but find themselves stranded by the march of history have a chance of being remembered for doing the right thing. Time for faux-Unionists to become true Nationalists. Defect now and leave the rump to defecate on its own crumbling doorstep. Keep saying it Mr McBride.

[quote][bold]ex labour voter[/bold] wrote: Wee wee wendy does not want Independence for Scotland so she say,s there will be no referendum,wee wee wendy thinks it is right and proper for her westmonster masters to withhold £400 million of council TAX BENEFIT from the Sottish people.in the case of LIT. Wee wee wendy thinks it is ok for her to break the law. WEE WEE WENDY IS ON THE WAY OUT. [/quote] [bold]ENDY[/bold] ALEXANDER.

[quote]Labour's Holyrood leadership yesterday slapped down Westminster MPs who want to hold a referendum on independence - an option that has been discussed at senior levels in the UK Government.[/quote] You appear to talk up the people out of power in Scotland, and yet the Scottish Government in the form of John Swinney (usually portrayed as "picking" fights" when they represent the Scottish interest) are portrayed as going cap in hand to somebody in Westminster on an issue of vital importance to Scotish tax payers. What a load of rubbish the journalists in Scotland write! Thank god we can now watch the truth in the dodgy guise of Andy Kerr, yesterday's bitter man boasting about Scottish taxes being with-held from us because we didn't return Labour in Scotland last may. What a great representative of our Scottish Parliament and defender of the Scottish interest he truly is.

As i said above kinghob, similarities to mugabe, either you do what we say or you starve, you los eout if you get smart, and **** democracy, as the only vote that counts is the one we do not need to have as we are always right.

Alexander insists referendum is not on agenda. "no way hothay" , she was overheard to remark yesterday. Not a f*cking chance echoed her burly chief of staff and minder. snort.

[quote][bold]Grassy Knollington[/bold] wrote: Alexander insists referendum is not on agenda. "no way hothay" , she was overheard to remark yesterday. Not a f*cking chance echoed her burly chief of staff and minder. snort. [/quote] Hothay gonnae thtoap it?

Alexander will be like Brown-gone and forgotten, which is why Scots pay very little attention to her or indeed Labour. The tide has turned, the geo-political landscape has changed irreversibly and yesterday's people will stay in that position while the rest of us move on and make our way in the world.

How Socialist and democratic of Wendy to state that there will be no referendum. Is this her new version of socialism? It is the people's right to have a referendum on independence wendy , its not your call. Arent the new liebour tartan tories scared of the day that they never saw... You wont stem the tide, the unionists are wasting their time. The day will soom be on us where the people will vote.

Bjork - Declare Independence Declare independence! Don't let them do that to you! Declare independence! Don't let them do that to you! Declare independence! Don't let them do that to you! Declare independence! Don't let them do that to you! Start your own currency! Make your own stamp Protect your language Declare independence Don't let them do that to you Declare independence Don't let them do that to you [ x4 ] Make your own flag! [ x6 ] Raise your flag! [ Find more Lyrics at www.mp3lyrics.org/vpi ] Declare independence! Don't let them do that to you! Declare independence! Don't let them do that to you! **** colonists Ignore their patronizing Tear off their blindfolds Open their eyes Declare independence! Don't let them do that to you! Declare independence! Don't let them do that to you! With a flag and a trumpet Go to the top of your highest mountain! [ x6 ] Raise your flag! Declare independence! Don't let them do that to you! Declare independence! Don't let them do that to you! Raise the flag!

It suits today the meek and base Whose minds are fixed on self and place To cringe beneath daft Gordon's frown And haul our sacred emblem down. But we'll raise Scotland's standard high Beneath its folds we'll live and die Tho' cowards flinch and traitors sneer We'll keep the Scots flag flying here

The labour in-fighting hasn't reached critical level yet, but it's fast approaching. The final straw may be the drubbing they get in May. Broon, Alexander and co will fall like a pack of cards. The methane pressure builds up inside the labour pigsty as they continue sheting on each other - when it finally goes, there is going to be one mother of a mess. The scottish government have played it well thus far - steady as she goes and focus on improving the country and helping those most vulnerable. I always thought that the best way to treat this pathetic, nasty labour opposition would be to ignore them and watch them fester. LoL

Luigi, Aberdeen on 5:03pm today writes: [quote]The methane pressure builds up inside the labour pigsty as they continue sheting on each other - when it finally goes, there is going to be one mother of a mess.[/quote] That's wan helluva visual Luigi!

I'm always intrigued by the labour party; what makes them think that whether the Scots are 'allowed' a referendum on independence is up to them? It's actually up to the people of Scotland, and the people of Scotland WILL tell them that in the next election. Can't believe this lot are still trying to force us to believe their pompous orders and bullying posturing.

The way the 'establishment-led' organisations like the police, crown prosecution service, the courts, and lawyers all tell us to 'get in line' with what they're telling us to do is all too clear now. They bully us into thinking we must conform to their way of living because they're the establishment! Not any more. The people of Scotland now know they have a choice of who they want to govern them, and if they want an independent Scotland, The establishment are on the way out of Scotland. All these establishment orginasations I've mentioned are all trying to force Scots citizens inbto a subordinate mind-set. Just look at angiolini's zero-tolerance. Just look at mz harm-men's politics on positive discrimination for women, (this means against men), just look at the way the courts press charges against Scots citizens; the charge is always forced on you in capital letters, you DID commit a breach of of the peace last monday when walking your dog. It's too much now. ESTABLISHEMENT OUT NOW.

Dear Douglas “Labour's Holyrood leadership yesterday slapped down Westminster MPs who want to hold a referendum on independence - an option that has been discussed at senior levels in the UK Government”. Oh dear, they are running scared about how to kill the hopes of the Scottish people. As to slapping down MP’s, Labour MSP’s should be careful of opening their mouths too much. Alexander is living on borrowed time and each day gets her closer to resignation. “There was a warning some MPs are going against their own Downing Street leadership, undermining the party in the Scottish Parliament, and that they need to learn the lesson from MSPs of being more disciplined”. The Alexander disease is now infect MPP’s as they see the chance that they could get defeated, face unemployment and the end of their careers, all because of the gross stupidity of the most despised woman in Scottish political life! “Senior back-bench MPs have said it is time for Labour to reverse its opposition to such a vote, gambling that the SNP could be defeated and its cause would be set back by a generation”. Everyone knows the mood in Scotland centres on Wendy Alexander’s guilt, the longer she is head of New Labour, the more the spotlight of sleaze and cronyism shines on them. “Some in Labour at Holyrood fear the views have the tacit support of the Scotland Office in Whitehall - the part of the Westminster administration most enthusiastic about confronting the nationalist administration in Edinburgh”. Two fools, Des Browne and David Cairns,each as ineffective with no role in the life of the people of Scotland. “However, a Scotland Office spokesman said the suggestion was "laughable" and that ministers "stand four-square behind the strategy" of Labour's Holyrood leader Wendy Alexander, who said it is "highly unlikely" Labour will agree to a referendum”. Given Alexander is guilty of breaking the law; the referendum would be an open sore for her and her guilt. “One Whitehall source commented yesterday: "It's an option people talk about, but not with any urgency. We can win a referendum at any time. The important thing is to make sure it fits in with our broader agenda, but at the moment, it's not under active consideration." So Labour’s agenda is clear, it’s not about what the people of Scotland want, it’s about the London Labour Party keeping control of Scotland. “Such a reversal of policy could be achieved by Westminster approving a referendum, or by Labour MSPs shifting their position to force the SNP into a vote at Labour's time of choosing”. Given that the UK General Election will probably result in a hung parliament, Labour wants to shut down the Scottish question. “However, Ms Alexander is warning colleagues to stick to the line she agreed with the Westminster leadership”. More evidence that she is Brown’s puppet! “She is angered that the row risks a wedge being driven between the party's two parliamentary groups, offering an opportunity for nationalists to exploit”. Wendy Alexander split the Labour Party with her stupidity going from mistake to mistake, crisis to crisis. “A source close to Ms Alexander said she discussed the possibility of a referendum with Gordon Brown last May”. Before McConnell step down? Does this not show that even then she was plotting the demise of Jack McConnell by going behind his back? How can Scottish Labour trust her when she is prepared to sneak behind the back of the then leader? “Her message is a warning to back-bench MPs Michael Connarty, David Hamilton and John Robertson, quoted yesterday calling for a referendum. Elaine Smith is the only back-bench MSP to break ranks by arguing for a U-turn, while former Labour minister Brian Wilson and leading MEP David Martin have also joined the calls”. Labour cannot move forward until, they deal with the Alexander problem, she is a millstone round the neck of every serving Scottish Labour politician putting their careers on the line. If she cannot show loyalty and support for people above her, she will have no problem trampling the rank and file below her to attempt to get a First Minister salary and allowances. For Alexander, it’s all about the pounds and pence now! Yours sincerely George Laird The Campaign for Human Rights at Glasgow University

That Wendy She knows you know. Turkey votes for Xmas not likely Bring on the Referendum Now!!!!!!!!!

If I was Don Vito Corleone I would give the Labour Party a good slap and tell them that you don't let anyone outside the family know what you are thinking. How can they be scewing up like this ? It is quite funny for us, but really that lack of professionalism and basic competence is staggering.

observor well before we really had nothing to compare labour in scotland with. its only now that we have a real government in the snp that we are seeing the way things should have been and thats why labour look so bad.

Yes Karin although I was an enthusiastic yes yes voter I did have a gnawing feeling in the pit of my stomach that some of the anti people had a point when they said we couldn't run a bath never mind a parliament because I knew Labour would get to run the show at first and they would be an embarrassment. Thank God we have got rid of them - a bit. A few more pushes and get rid of them altogether.

Off track slightly but today i saw a map showing the political layout of Scotland. The highlands and down to the central belt is mostly SNP with some Lib Dem, then there is this great swathe of red surrounding Glasgow and most of Edinburgh. To me it emphasised how much of Scotland has changed but that there is still a lot to be done to change the mind-set of the die hard Labour voter, but if and when that happens then independence will surely follow.

I think that's why Peter the SNP will need to spend some time in Government before calling a referendum. There is an almost instinctive bond with Labour in Glasgow and although it is being eroded we are not there yet. Once you cross the rubicon you wonder how on earth you ever saw anything in them - like an old boyfriend or girlfriend that you adored but is now an embarrassment. But not enough people have crossed yet.

I agree, Observer. Though there is far greater sentiment for the SNP and its policies than any Unionist dare admit, there is a lot more work to do to raise public awareness of how the folk can be empowered. Once they see it in its entirety they will shake off all fear and uncertainty. And the Don doesn't slap anybody about - he makes them an offer they can't refuse. The SNP's offer to the people of Scotland is just that: you can run your own country - carpe diem!

Peter You're not absolutely right about the red splotches in the central belt. They're much more broken up than they once were, particularly the further east you head. Remember the party with the most votes in the Lothians region at the last election was the SNP. Another interesting exercise is to compare maps from 1999 and 2003 with the map of last year's result. You can see Labour slowly but surely disapperaing from large swathes of the country - it must be quite a sobering exercise for a Labour activist to do this, particularly when you see how low their vote can get in certain parts of the north and east. Remember too that many of the main population centres outside Glasgow have very large SNP votes including each of the old and new cities. The SNP hold Dundee, Perth and Stirling and have constituency MSPs in Aberdeen, Edinburgh, Glasgow, Inverness and many other significant population centres like Falkirk, Kilmarnock and central Fife. Don't get depressed about the size of the task - think about Labour's decline in places like Aberdeen and Edinburgh if you want to see what's possible in locations where it was only recently that people started voting SNP in significant numbers. Glasgow will move in the same direction eventually.

Peter You're not absolutely right about the red splotches in the central belt. They're much more broken up than they once were, particularly the further east you head. Remember the party with the most votes in the Lothians region at the last election was the SNP. Another interesting exercise is to compare maps from 1999 and 2003 with the map of last year's result. You can see Labour slowly but surely disapperaing from large swathes of the country - it must be quite a sobering exercise for a Labour activist to do this, particularly when you see how low their vote can get in certain parts of the north and east. Remember too that many of the main population centres outside Glasgow have very large SNP votes including each of the old and new cities. The SNP hold Dundee, Perth and Stirling and have constituency MSPs in Aberdeen, Edinburgh, Glasgow, Inverness and many other significant population centres like Falkirk, Kilmarnock and central Fife. Don't get depressed about the size of the task - think about Labour's decline in places like Aberdeen and Edinburgh if you want to see what's possible in locations where it was only recently that people started voting SNP in significant numbers. Glasgow will move in the same direction eventually.

She said that yesterday!

Stand firm my cohorts it is a matter of counting a few hundred days away now, The [bold]BIG PUSH[/bold] will be the implosion within Labour,now then, whether you think this will be sooner or later,will be down simply to whether you think the Party and individuals within it are more or less self serving ,yup as simple as that. Labour Party being the key to early Independence. However the clock has long since sounded familiar ,ticking away!

An election tomorrow I'm quite sure in my heart would eviscerate Labour from Scotland and UK, I'm just not getting these Polling figures at all,I'm thinking they are doctored for consumption .This is not too shocking an angle when you take into account the media's unfriendliness to Scottish Governance--every single day!

[quote][bold]Colin B[/bold] wrote: Might not be on her agenda but its for us the electorate to decide the agenda PS Wendy broke the law-we can say this forever[/quote] Indeed you can Colin. But then again so did SNP MP Angus McNeil who broke the law by supplying alcohol to a minor. Then getting onto bed with her. And her friend. The sleazy creepy perv. So what's worse? A member of your staff accepts a cheque freely given which contravenes election law or being a sexual predator who preys on drunk underage girls? Let the public decide, eh?

Chairman Hamish Krapology[quote]Then getting onto bed[/quote] Amazing, The level of politics with orange trolls is resolutely obsessive anus and sex. I think you should taked a cold shower.

Chairman Hamish Krapology[quote]You think?[/quote] I see you got up early to begin your day's agenda of trolling political forums to spread dung and crapology. What a great epitaph on your tombstone: "Muck Spreader"

[quote][bold]Colin B[/bold] wrote: Might not be on her agenda but its for us the electorate to decide the agenda PS Wendy broke the law-we can say this forever[/quote] LA My post was in response to the very first post on this thread. By a nationalist who decided to mud-sling. I merely pointed out that if you want to open that particular can of worms then both sides will be hurt. Typically you ignore the beam in your own eye to point out the mote in mine. Plus ca change, eh?

Chairman hamish Krapology[quote]My post was in response[/quote] to your tpoilet roll debating techniques. Your post on McNeil is both libellous and contradictory. But then, you know that and don't care. You are a fool but a dangerous one.

LA My post isn't libellous because it is true. Mr McNeil apologised for his shameful behaviour. Nor is it contradictory - but then, you know that and don't care. You are a bore but a dangerous one. See what I did there? Now be off with you, I can't be bothered with your petty vindictiveness - I have better things to be doing, revolutions don't start themselves....

Chairman Hamish Krapology[quote]Mr McNeil apologised for his[/quote] I realise you are using every reply to spread more malcious crap but your slurs will be be blocked. And you're a blockhead. Have a nice day as a security guard. Your days as a politician never started.

[bold]WARNING TROLL - HAS NO INTEREST IN SCOTLAND[/bold] [quote]I have better things to be doing, [/quote] That's rich - like spreading libel?

After the next Westminster Election, when the SNP wins an overall majority of Scottish seats, the will be the most awful red, white and blue shreeks from NuLab, demanding a Referendum. "We were electing a government!". "General Elections are not about single issues!!!". "Only a Referendum will give us a clear picture of what the people of Scotland really want!!!!!" The duplicity of NuLabour knows no bounds. For a fairer, more prosperous Scotland: Vote SNP. And come on Michael; make the walk, it's only a short one.

[quote]For a fairer, more prosperous Scotland: Vote SNP.[/quote] I'll second that!