Science training packages stepped up for young
A Modern apprenticeship in life sciences is being introduced in Scotland and opportunities in the construction and engineering related sectors are to be expanded, the Scottish Government announced yesterday.
The move is part of a package of changes to national training programmes announced by Education and Lifelong Learning Secretary Fiona Hyslop and Willy Roe, the newly appointed chair of skills development Scotland (SDS).
It comes just 24 hours after Glasgow City Council promised that every school leaver in the city who qualifies for a modern apprenticeship will be offered one next year, to take advantage of the construction boom provided by the 2014 Commonwealth Games.
Earlier, Labour leader Wendy Alexander set out plans for a bill creating a right to an apprenticeship for all youngsters between the ages of 16 and 18, claiming 30,000 modern apprenticeships would be created if the legislation is passed.
SDS is a new limited company created by merging Careers Scotland, learndirect Scotland and most of the skills and training functions of the Enterprise
Networks.
The organisation, which will have over 1500 staff and a budget of around £170m per year over the next three years, will be based in Atlantic Quay, Glasgow.
Modern Apprenticeship programmes provide individuals with the opportunity to combine employment with training by following an industry designed framework which provides accredited qualifications.
As well as developing a new apprenticeship in Life Sciences, SDS will refocus support in adult modern apprenticeships to only construction and engineering related sectors - such as plumbing and bricklaying, electricians, shipbuilding, car maintenance and painting.
The Scottish Government said this will produce an increase in the number of adult modern apprentice
ships in this sector by 50%, "assisting an additional 500 people in industries that
face particular training pressures".
SDS will also increase the 16-19-year-old MAs in all construction and engineering related sectors, giving a total of "over 500 additional opportunities".
Mr Roe added: "Life sciences is a key sector for Scotland with a high growth potential and the capacity to boost productivity through enhanced support, including the introduction of modern apprentices.
"Traditional areas of construction and engineering continue to provide solid returns and with the Commonwealth Games expected to create an additional 1200 jobs we can see the clear need to continue skill development in this area.
"However outwith these sectors, the outcomes have been less favourable.
"We therefore need to take a little time, working closely with the key sectors involved, to identify the innovative ways by which we can secure effective workforce development."
© All rights reserved. Reproduction in whole or in part without
permission is prohibited.
Posted by: Jimbo on 11:16pm Mon 31 Mar 08
Will the Labour Party oppose this with their usual anti-SNP spite or will they congratulate the Government for investing in Scotland's future?
Will the Labour Party oppose this with their usual anti-SNP spite or will they congratulate the Government for investing in Scotland's future?
Posted by: stevie, glasgow on 11:17pm Mon 31 Mar 08
Now "if" I were to be cynical for a moment and follow a train of thought laid earlier,then I would say this is 30,000 more members for the GMB block vote.
Could be Wendy's preparing something for the future right enough.
But I did say "IF".
Now "if" I were to be cynical for a moment and follow a train of thought laid earlier,then I would say this is 30,000 more members for the GMB block vote.
Could be Wendy's preparing something for the future right enough.
But I did say "IF".
Posted by: Wardog, Buckie on 11:46pm Mon 31 Mar 08
But what about the vulnerable two year olds?
But what about the vulnerable two year olds?
Posted by: subrosa on 11:49pm Mon 31 Mar 08
Apologies for ignorance but what are Life Sciences?
Apologies for ignorance but what are Life Sciences?
Posted by: tris, scotland on 11:51pm Mon 31 Mar 08
I expect Wendy will organise apprenticeships for them too Wardog. Don't worry. They are her first concern at the moment.
A propos of nothing, I've just read elsewhere that the name "Wendy" was invented for Peter Pan. There had never been a recorded use of the name before that.
Dunno if it's true... but with the connection to Never Never Land it seems possible.
I expect Wendy will organise apprenticeships for them too Wardog. Don't worry. They are her first concern at the moment.
A propos of nothing, I've just read elsewhere that the name "Wendy" was invented for Peter Pan. There had never been a recorded use of the name before that.
Dunno if it's true... but with the connection to Never Never Land it seems possible.
Posted by: Dave, Away on 12:23am Tue 1 Apr 08
[quote][bold]tris[/bold] wrote:
I expect Wendy will organise apprenticeships for them too Wardog. Don't worry. They are her first concern at the moment. A propos of nothing, I've just read elsewhere that the name "Wendy" was invented for Peter Pan. There had never been a recorded use of the name before that. Dunno if it's true... but with the connection to Never Never Land it seems possible.[/quote] "Wendy" is the diminuitive of "Gwendolyn"....which has been around forever...
tris wrote:
I expect Wendy will organise apprenticeships for them too Wardog. Don't worry. They are her first concern at the moment. A propos of nothing, I've just read elsewhere that the name "Wendy" was invented for Peter Pan. There had never been a recorded use of the name before that. Dunno if it's true... but with the connection to Never Never Land it seems possible.
"Wendy" is the diminuitive of "Gwendolyn"....which has been around forever...
Posted by: Jwil, Lanarkshire on 12:24am Tue 1 Apr 08
Scotland - a nation of apprentices. Wow!
Scotland - a nation of apprentices. Wow!
Posted by: Dave, Away on 12:25am Tue 1 Apr 08
[quote][bold]Wardog[/bold] wrote:
But what about the vulnerable two year olds?[/quote] They are now 2 1/2 and will soon be invulnerable three year olds....
Wardog wrote:
But what about the vulnerable two year olds?
They are now 2 1/2 and will soon be invulnerable three year olds....
Posted by: Dave, Away on 12:26am Tue 1 Apr 08
[quote][bold]Dave[/bold] wrote:
[quote][bold]tris[/bold] wrote: I expect Wendy will organise apprenticeships for them too Wardog. Don't worry. They are her first concern at the moment. A propos of nothing, I've just read elsewhere that the name "Wendy" was invented for Peter Pan. There had never been a recorded use of the name before that. Dunno if it's true... but with the connection to Never Never Land it seems possible.[/quote] "Wendy" is the diminuitive of "Gwendolyn"....which has been around forever...[/quote] Actually, it's a second diminuitive after "Gwen".
Dave wrote:
tris wrote: I expect Wendy will organise apprenticeships for them too Wardog. Don't worry. They are her first concern at the moment. A propos of nothing, I've just read elsewhere that the name "Wendy" was invented for Peter Pan. There had never been a recorded use of the name before that. Dunno if it's true... but with the connection to Never Never Land it seems possible.
"Wendy" is the diminuitive of "Gwendolyn"....which has been around forever...
Actually, it's a second diminuitive after "Gwen".
Posted by: Dave, Away on 12:27am Tue 1 Apr 08
[quote][bold]subrosa[/bold] wrote:
Apologies for ignorance but what are Life Sciences?[/quote] I think subrosa they mean caregivers for the elderly, the mentally challenged, support workers, etc.
subrosa wrote:
Apologies for ignorance but what are Life Sciences?
I think subrosa they mean caregivers for the elderly, the mentally challenged, support workers, etc.
Posted by: Dave, Away on 12:29am Tue 1 Apr 08
[quote][bold]stevie[/bold] wrote:
Now "if" I were to be cynical for a moment and follow a train of thought laid earlier,then I would say this is 30,000 more members for the GMB block vote. Could be Wendy's preparing something for the future right enough. But I did say "IF". [/quote] No....once they become successful plumbers, electricians etc they all vote Lib/Dem... :-)
stevie wrote:
Now "if" I were to be cynical for a moment and follow a train of thought laid earlier,then I would say this is 30,000 more members for the GMB block vote. Could be Wendy's preparing something for the future right enough. But I did say "IF".
No....once they become successful plumbers, electricians etc they all vote Lib/Dem... :-)
Posted by: subrosa on 1:16am Tue 1 Apr 08
Thank you Dave. Well if the SNP government are to be doing apprenticeships in these areas they need to up the level of qualifications. SVQs are not nearly good enough. I don't have much knowledge of these areas nowadays but I do know when I worked in education the standard of the SVQs was pathetic.
Aren't all these apprenticeships just replacements for the failed Skillseeker programme? That was designed in a similar manner.
Looking back 15 years there wasn't so much wrong with the old YTS was there? At least intelligent youngsters had access to City & Guilds etc - excellent standards.
Thank you Dave. Well if the SNP government are to be doing apprenticeships in these areas they need to up the level of qualifications. SVQs are not nearly good enough. I don't have much knowledge of these areas nowadays but I do know when I worked in education the standard of the SVQs was pathetic.
Aren't all these apprenticeships just replacements for the failed Skillseeker programme? That was designed in a similar manner.
Looking back 15 years there wasn't so much wrong with the old YTS was there? At least intelligent youngsters had access to City & Guilds etc - excellent standards.
Posted by: Dave, Away on 1:44am Tue 1 Apr 08
[quote][bold]subrosa[/bold] wrote:
Thank you Dave. Well if the SNP government are to be doing apprenticeships in these areas they need to up the level of qualifications. SVQs are not nearly good enough. I don't have much knowledge of these areas nowadays but I do know when I worked in education the standard of the SVQs was pathetic. Aren't all these apprenticeships just replacements for the failed Skillseeker programme? That was designed in a similar manner. Looking back 15 years there wasn't so much wrong with the old YTS was there? At least intelligent youngsters had access to City & Guilds etc - excellent standards.[/quote] You're welcome. I think this is a perennial problem for any civilization throughout time. It doesn't tend to have easy answers unless there is a lot of industry to receive the trained ones....
I have read where some found the YTS program great and others found it useless....
Thanks for your sharing of your experience of the SVQ program. Again, if there are carpenter jobs then the carpentry apprenticeship program works, but if there are no carpentry jobs in the end.....
How is Skillseeker dead, subrosa? It still seems to be still operational? (actually if you're Polish you have your own website :-) )
subrosa wrote:
Thank you Dave. Well if the SNP government are to be doing apprenticeships in these areas they need to up the level of qualifications. SVQs are not nearly good enough. I don't have much knowledge of these areas nowadays but I do know when I worked in education the standard of the SVQs was pathetic. Aren't all these apprenticeships just replacements for the failed Skillseeker programme? That was designed in a similar manner. Looking back 15 years there wasn't so much wrong with the old YTS was there? At least intelligent youngsters had access to City & Guilds etc - excellent standards.
You're welcome. I think this is a perennial problem for any civilization throughout time. It doesn't tend to have easy answers unless there is a lot of industry to receive the trained ones....
I have read where some found the YTS program great and others found it useless....
Thanks for your sharing of your experience of the SVQ program. Again, if there are carpenter jobs then the carpentry apprenticeship program works, but if there are no carpentry jobs in the end.....
How is Skillseeker dead, subrosa? It still seems to be still operational? (actually if you're Polish you have your own website :-) )
Posted by: subrosa on 3:04am Tue 1 Apr 08
Dave I'm not Polish and don't speak Polish either :) The Skillseeker programme was introduced as a 'modern apprenticeship' scheme back in 1996. I was against it at the time as I thought it diluted the 'good' apprenticeship schemes within industry but, not being a labour supporter, I was in the minority.
Since I retired I don't have my finger on the pulse so much but I understand it hasn't been very successful. It was a way of massaging the unemployment figures and the quality of the whole scheme was doubtful from the start.
Sensible employers will always take the cream for apprentices. They don't worry about payments for training them. They use the old fashioned method of 'once your qualified you'll work for us for x years' and it works.
I agree YTS did have failings in many areas but one of its good points was it helped youngsters who wished to have a career in the engineering industry ie motor, agricultural, fabrication and welding. Back in those days the cost of study for these courses became outwith the pocket of a youngster and YTS helped fund their City & Guilds courses.
As for SVQs I have nothing positive to say ...
Dave I'm not Polish and don't speak Polish either :) The Skillseeker programme was introduced as a 'modern apprenticeship' scheme back in 1996. I was against it at the time as I thought it diluted the 'good' apprenticeship schemes within industry but, not being a labour supporter, I was in the minority.
Since I retired I don't have my finger on the pulse so much but I understand it hasn't been very successful. It was a way of massaging the unemployment figures and the quality of the whole scheme was doubtful from the start.
Sensible employers will always take the cream for apprentices. They don't worry about payments for training them. They use the old fashioned method of 'once your qualified you'll work for us for x years' and it works.
I agree YTS did have failings in many areas but one of its good points was it helped youngsters who wished to have a career in the engineering industry ie motor, agricultural, fabrication and welding. Back in those days the cost of study for these courses became outwith the pocket of a youngster and YTS helped fund their City & Guilds courses.
As for SVQs I have nothing positive to say ...
Posted by: Karin, glasgae. on 4:15am Tue 1 Apr 08
BREAKING NEWS BREAKING NEWS
Just heard the fantastic news that alex salmond has declared independence.
yes you heard me right We are now an independent nation.
FANTASTIC NEWS!!!!!!!!!!
The declaration was read by lex salmond in a webcast from america. Downing street have instructed all the newspapers NOT TO REPORT THIS and have brought in emergency legislation in a special sitting of the westminster parliament which has also not been reported in the press.
BREAKING NEWS BREAKING NEWS
Just heard the fantastic news that alex salmond has declared independence.
yes you heard me right We are now an independent nation.
FANTASTIC NEWS!!!!!!!!!!
The declaration was read by lex salmond in a webcast from america. Downing street have instructed all the newspapers NOT TO REPORT THIS and have brought in emergency legislation in a special sitting of the westminster parliament which has also not been reported in the press.
Posted by: scottc, north of the Tay on 6:59am Tue 1 Apr 08
Life Sciences: The term 'life sciences' covers a whole range of scientific disciplines. This includes neurosciences, plant sciences, physiology, pharmacology, cancer studies, microbiology, genomics, bioinformatics, biotechnology and stem cell research. They are close to the medical sciences but also cross over into other areas, e.g. biochemistry.
If they really mean care home workers et al then they need to find an alternative name
Life Sciences: The term 'life sciences' covers a whole range of scientific disciplines. This includes neurosciences, plant sciences, physiology, pharmacology, cancer studies, microbiology, genomics, bioinformatics, biotechnology and stem cell research. They are close to the medical sciences but also cross over into other areas, e.g. biochemistry.
If they really mean care home workers et al then they need to find an alternative name
Posted by: subrosa on 10:36am Tue 1 Apr 08
That was my concept of Life Sciences scott. Just wondered what the politik speak meant. If they do mean people for the service industries then they should call the apprenticeships that.
That was my concept of Life Sciences scott. Just wondered what the politik speak meant. If they do mean people for the service industries then they should call the apprenticeships that.
Posted by: Lobeydosser, Woodlands Road on 11:15am Tue 1 Apr 08
Hi Subrosa & Scott,
I too was not sure what life sciences actually were; something biological, but that was it.
I am not sure how you could get an apprenticeship in the areas Scott mentioned except, if there were new awarding bodies set up and the National Certificates and HNCs were set up to support the practical work.
Some hospitals used to do a form of apprenticeship for their lab technicians, but these were quite technical courses and really were a higher academic level than those given to tradesmen or craftsmen; no disrespect to tradesmen or craftsmen.
Care workers currently do SVQs in social care and the qualifications are work related, but there are also college courses in care at different levels, if both are combined you would get a good apprenticeship done over a few years. However some care homes do the absolute minimum and care workers only get the SVQ with no underpinning knowledge of C&G, NC or HNC and as a result many trainees are short-changed.
All this needs is a bit of imagination and motivation to get proper apprenticeships moving again, but with the removal of going for long stands and tins of tartan paint.
Hi Subrosa & Scott,
I too was not sure what life sciences actually were; something biological, but that was it.
I am not sure how you could get an apprenticeship in the areas Scott mentioned except, if there were new awarding bodies set up and the National Certificates and HNCs were set up to support the practical work.
Some hospitals used to do a form of apprenticeship for their lab technicians, but these were quite technical courses and really were a higher academic level than those given to tradesmen or craftsmen; no disrespect to tradesmen or craftsmen.
Care workers currently do SVQs in social care and the qualifications are work related, but there are also college courses in care at different levels, if both are combined you would get a good apprenticeship done over a few years. However some care homes do the absolute minimum and care workers only get the SVQ with no underpinning knowledge of C&G, NC or HNC and as a result many trainees are short-changed.
All this needs is a bit of imagination and motivation to get proper apprenticeships moving again, but with the removal of going for long stands and tins of tartan paint.
Posted by: subrosa on 11:42am Tue 1 Apr 08
[italic]Posted by: Lobeydosser, Woodlands Road on 11:15am today[/italic]
Something has to be done in the care industry as you're right about it doing the absolute minimum. In some care homes staff, who want to attend college to improve qualifications, are told that the relevant time off (their own time and at their own expense) cannot be guaranteed as a fair rota system is required.
People of more ability won't enter the care system unless they know they can progress and acquire greater skills plus of course more salary.
I'm a little out of date with current political issues in this area but I know when the Care Commission was put in place they were expected to improve the skill levels of staff. I have yet to see proof of this. As I said on another thread the care homes in my area now have a high dependency on migrant workers who have little or no knowledge of English. They have no interest in paying for upgrading their skills.
Posted by: Lobeydosser, Woodlands Road on 11:15am today
Something has to be done in the care industry as you're right about it doing the absolute minimum. In some care homes staff, who want to attend college to improve qualifications, are told that the relevant time off (their own time and at their own expense) cannot be guaranteed as a fair rota system is required.
People of more ability won't enter the care system unless they know they can progress and acquire greater skills plus of course more salary.
I'm a little out of date with current political issues in this area but I know when the Care Commission was put in place they were expected to improve the skill levels of staff. I have yet to see proof of this. As I said on another thread the care homes in my area now have a high dependency on migrant workers who have little or no knowledge of English. They have no interest in paying for upgrading their skills.
Posted by: Dave, Away on 11:58am Tue 1 Apr 08
[quote][bold]subrosa[/bold] wrote:
Dave I'm not Polish and don't speak Polish either :) The Skillseeker programme was introduced as a 'modern apprenticeship' scheme back in 1996. I was against it at the time as I thought it diluted the 'good' apprenticeship schemes within industry but, not being a labour supporter, I was in the minority. Since I retired I don't have my finger on the pulse so much but I understand it hasn't been very successful. It was a way of massaging the unemployment figures and the quality of the whole scheme was doubtful from the start. Sensible employers will always take the cream for apprentices. They don't worry about payments for training them. They use the old fashioned method of 'once your qualified you'll work for us for x years' and it works. I agree YTS did have failings in many areas but one of its good points was it helped youngsters who wished to have a career in the engineering industry ie motor, agricultural, fabrication and welding. Back in those days the cost of study for these courses became outwith the pocket of a youngster and YTS helped fund their City & Guilds courses. As for SVQs I have nothing positive to say ...[/quote] Thanks again, subrosa...it is good to have input from someone who's been there....
The other lads are right in what "Life Sciences" might mean in a University setting, but I got the feeling they really meant caregiving in this setting....
If they are going to train young folks in how to help out in advanced labs that would be very good! (Again, as long as the advanced labs are there for them to work in....) I hope my take was wrong :-)
subrosa wrote:
Dave I'm not Polish and don't speak Polish either :) The Skillseeker programme was introduced as a 'modern apprenticeship' scheme back in 1996. I was against it at the time as I thought it diluted the 'good' apprenticeship schemes within industry but, not being a labour supporter, I was in the minority. Since I retired I don't have my finger on the pulse so much but I understand it hasn't been very successful. It was a way of massaging the unemployment figures and the quality of the whole scheme was doubtful from the start. Sensible employers will always take the cream for apprentices. They don't worry about payments for training them. They use the old fashioned method of 'once your qualified you'll work for us for x years' and it works. I agree YTS did have failings in many areas but one of its good points was it helped youngsters who wished to have a career in the engineering industry ie motor, agricultural, fabrication and welding. Back in those days the cost of study for these courses became outwith the pocket of a youngster and YTS helped fund their City & Guilds courses. As for SVQs I have nothing positive to say ...
Thanks again, subrosa...it is good to have input from someone who's been there....
The other lads are right in what "Life Sciences" might mean in a University setting, but I got the feeling they really meant caregiving in this setting....
If they are going to train young folks in how to help out in advanced labs that would be very good! (Again, as long as the advanced labs are there for them to work in....) I hope my take was wrong :-)
Posted by: bigbadbob, Glasgow on 12:46pm Tue 1 Apr 08
[quote][bold]Dave[/bold] wrote:
[quote][bold]subrosa[/bold] wrote: Dave I'm not Polish and don't speak Polish either :) The Skillseeker programme was introduced as a 'modern apprenticeship' scheme back in 1996. I was against it at the time as I thought it diluted the 'good' apprenticeship schemes within industry but, not being a labour supporter, I was in the minority. Since I retired I don't have my finger on the pulse so much but I understand it hasn't been very successful. It was a way of massaging the unemployment figures and the quality of the whole scheme was doubtful from the start. Sensible employers will always take the cream for apprentices. They don't worry about payments for training them. They use the old fashioned method of 'once your qualified you'll work for us for x years' and it works. I agree YTS did have failings in many areas but one of its good points was it helped youngsters who wished to have a career in the engineering industry ie motor, agricultural, fabrication and welding. Back in those days the cost of study for these courses became outwith the pocket of a youngster and YTS helped fund their City & Guilds courses. As for SVQs I have nothing positive to say ...[/quote] Thanks again, subrosa...it is good to have input from someone who's been there.... The other lads are right in what "Life Sciences" might mean in a University setting, but I got the feeling they really meant caregiving in this setting.... If they are going to train young folks in how to help out in advanced labs that would be very good! (Again, as long as the advanced labs are there for them to work in....) I hope my take was wrong :-) [/quote] Dave , Subrosa
As I was also confused about the "life sciences" I checked the web site - http://www.skillsdev
elopmentscotland.co.
uk/about_us.html
No mention of this yet - I note it is a "New" program!!
As an aside - Willy Roe is a busy man - director of "Rocket Science UK Ltd :-) " - have a look at the web site .
This may open up the discussion further!!!
Dave wrote:
subrosa wrote: Dave I'm not Polish and don't speak Polish either :) The Skillseeker programme was introduced as a 'modern apprenticeship' scheme back in 1996. I was against it at the time as I thought it diluted the 'good' apprenticeship schemes within industry but, not being a labour supporter, I was in the minority. Since I retired I don't have my finger on the pulse so much but I understand it hasn't been very successful. It was a way of massaging the unemployment figures and the quality of the whole scheme was doubtful from the start. Sensible employers will always take the cream for apprentices. They don't worry about payments for training them. They use the old fashioned method of 'once your qualified you'll work for us for x years' and it works. I agree YTS did have failings in many areas but one of its good points was it helped youngsters who wished to have a career in the engineering industry ie motor, agricultural, fabrication and welding. Back in those days the cost of study for these courses became outwith the pocket of a youngster and YTS helped fund their City & Guilds courses. As for SVQs I have nothing positive to say ...
Thanks again, subrosa...it is good to have input from someone who's been there.... The other lads are right in what "Life Sciences" might mean in a University setting, but I got the feeling they really meant caregiving in this setting.... If they are going to train young folks in how to help out in advanced labs that would be very good! (Again, as long as the advanced labs are there for them to work in....) I hope my take was wrong :-)
Dave , Subrosa
As I was also confused about the "life sciences" I checked the web site - http://www.skillsdev
elopmentscotland.co.
uk/about_us.html
No mention of this yet - I note it is a "New" program!!
As an aside - Willy Roe is a busy man - director of "Rocket Science UK Ltd :-) " - have a look at the web site .
This may open up the discussion further!!!
Posted by: John Gorman, glasgow on 6:39pm Tue 1 Apr 08
Subrosa - what utter nonsense. Skillseekers was qualifications at VQ level 2 and Modern Apprenticeships at level 3+. Skillseekers never failed as it delivered S/NVQs at level 2 designed by industry so to say they are sub-standard shows a lack of understanding - City and Guilds are actually an awarding body of, yes you guessed it S and NVQs so no sub-standard there then. YTS never had the same level of qualifications so again you show a lack of understanding of this topic. As an employer I know how good S/NVQ's are and how much training my young apprentices receive so maybe lets stop knocking something that works and concentrate on how we can improve it to make it even better.
Subrosa - what utter nonsense. Skillseekers was qualifications at VQ level 2 and Modern Apprenticeships at level 3+. Skillseekers never failed as it delivered S/NVQs at level 2 designed by industry so to say they are sub-standard shows a lack of understanding - City and Guilds are actually an awarding body of, yes you guessed it S and NVQs so no sub-standard there then. YTS never had the same level of qualifications so again you show a lack of understanding of this topic. As an employer I know how good S/NVQ's are and how much training my young apprentices receive so maybe lets stop knocking something that works and concentrate on how we can improve it to make it even better.
Posted by: Dave, Away on 12:35am Wed 2 Apr 08
"As an aside - Willy Roe is a busy man - director of "Rocket Science UK Ltd :-) " - have a look at the web site . "
Is there just one Willy Roe? (If not he has been a busy fellow for one lifetime....)
"As an aside - Willy Roe is a busy man - director of "Rocket Science UK Ltd :-) " - have a look at the web site . "
Is there just one Willy Roe? (If not he has been a busy fellow for one lifetime....)
Posted by: subrosa on 12:52am Wed 2 Apr 08
[italic]Posted by: John Gorman, glasgow on 6:39pm Tue 1 Apr 08[/italic]
So which council area did you take charge of Skillseekers? Do tell. Many trainees had to start at level 1 as you must be aware and apprentices started at much higher levels owing to the fact that they had better school qualifications.
I stick to my point that they are sub-standard. They were not designed by industry, they were designed mainly by academics to get bums on seats in the 'new' universities and colleges that sprung up 15 years ago.
City and Guilds has had an excellent reputation and quality of assessment for many years. The City and Guilds board fought extremely hard to continue to be included as an examination board. Thankfully they won but many of the meetings I attended with them were fraught for the reasons stated above.
You are badly informed. YTS covered a range from level 1 to NC. Students who had the ability to move on to HNC and HND were given a helping hand by YTS.
As an employer I accept your viewpoint but as one who was at the 'coal face' and fighting for high standards from the beginning, I do think my comments are valid.
Posted by: John Gorman, glasgow on 6:39pm Tue 1 Apr 08
So which council area did you take charge of Skillseekers? Do tell. Many trainees had to start at level 1 as you must be aware and apprentices started at much higher levels owing to the fact that they had better school qualifications.
I stick to my point that they are sub-standard. They were not designed by industry, they were designed mainly by academics to get bums on seats in the 'new' universities and colleges that sprung up 15 years ago.
City and Guilds has had an excellent reputation and quality of assessment for many years. The City and Guilds board fought extremely hard to continue to be included as an examination board. Thankfully they won but many of the meetings I attended with them were fraught for the reasons stated above.
You are badly informed. YTS covered a range from level 1 to NC. Students who had the ability to move on to HNC and HND were given a helping hand by YTS.
As an employer I accept your viewpoint but as one who was at the 'coal face' and fighting for high standards from the beginning, I do think my comments are valid.
Posted by: subrosa on 1:07am Wed 2 Apr 08
Oh and just for info my area trained many YTS young people in fabrication & welding, agricultural engineering, ground keeping, forestry, motor mechanics and many other skill areas to Level 3+ with the engineering courses qualifying in City & Guilds at the end of 3 years. Then they moved on to higher qualifications. Pity your area wasn't so keen on ensuring their YTS programme was of such a high standard.
Oh and just for info my area trained many YTS young people in fabrication & welding, agricultural engineering, ground keeping, forestry, motor mechanics and many other skill areas to Level 3+ with the engineering courses qualifying in City & Guilds at the end of 3 years. Then they moved on to higher qualifications. Pity your area wasn't so keen on ensuring their YTS programme was of such a high standard.
Politics
INDEX
Comment | Read Comments (25)
