An ol’ time medley of speeches – with emphasis on the ol’
Why do people feel so insecure and anxious about their future, asked Gordon Brown. A good question, being applied to the Great British public as they read headlines about economic meltdown.
He was less keen to address the insecurity and anxiety about the dispirited band of true believers gathered in Aviemore for the Scottish Labour conference this weekend.
Instead, they got the ol' time religion from Brown to gee them up - with emphasis on the ol'. A medley of the Prime Minister's greatest conference hits featured great clunking chunks of past speeches and articles.
This was Gordon Brown unplugged from his speech notes. No longer a coiled spring at a lectern,
threatening to explode into the hall with destructive force, the new, chummy, conversational style sees him pacing like an animal in a small cage, at first in the spotlight, increasingly preferring the shade, more cajoling and pleading than battering his audience into submission.
The reckoning is that we can never tire of being told he wants every child to have the chance to realise their potential. We can never be told often enough about graduates numbers in China and India.
Cue a reprise of the September 2006 speech
about family ties across the border, the SNP's threat to Scottish finance jobs and the risks to shipbuilding jobs -
all messages deployed extensively ahead of last year's election, with a notable lack of success.
The idea had been to offer a more positive take on the union, toning down the negative stuff. It crept in there all the same. Some habits are hard to break.
The new argument for keeping Scotland in the union sounds a bit like voting for
the SNP would mean the children of Africa will go without an education, just as the mothers of Sierra Leone will die in childbirth.
You kind of know what he's getting at, but it's an
argument in the early stages of development.
If Labour can achieve so much in 10 years, how much more in the future? They thought a man could not be put on the moon, smallpox couldn't be cured, the Berlin Wall would not come down, Nelson Mandela would not be free "in his lunchtime".
Dream the impossible dream and, yes, Wendy Alexander can be next First Minister.
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permission is prohibited.
Posted by: Jimbo on 12:05am Sat 29 Mar 08
[quote]Why do people feel so insecure and anxious about their future, asked Gordon Brown.[/quote]
Probably because he and his band of numpties are doing their utmost to hold Scotland back.
Why do people feel so insecure and anxious about their future, asked Gordon Brown.
Probably because he and his band of numpties are doing their utmost to hold Scotland back.
Posted by: Jimbo on 12:08am Sat 29 Mar 08
[quote]Dream the impossible dream and, yes, Wendy Alexander can be next First Minister.[/quote]
Only if they build her a new church.
What a sycophant you are Fraser.
Dream the impossible dream and, yes, Wendy Alexander can be next First Minister.
Only if they build her a new church.
What a sycophant you are Fraser.
Posted by: Mrs I P Knightly, Scotland on 12:08am Sat 29 Mar 08
Cue a reprise of the September 2006 speech about family ties across the border, the SNP's threat to Scottish finance jobs and the risks to shipbuilding jobs - all messages deployed extensively ahead of last year's election, with a notable lack of success.
- history repeating itself.
Cue a reprise of the September 2006 speech about family ties across the border, the SNP's threat to Scottish finance jobs and the risks to shipbuilding jobs - all messages deployed extensively ahead of last year's election, with a notable lack of success.
- history repeating itself.
Posted by: Wullie, Aberdeen on 12:11am Sat 29 Mar 08
The new argument for keeping Scotland in the union sounds a bit like voting for the SNP would mean the children of Africa will go without an education, just as the mothers of Sierra Leone will die in childbirth.
Liebour has really sunk to a new low. If you vote SNP a wee baby in Africa dies, so vote for wee Wendy. Absolutley shameful and disgusting.
The new argument for keeping Scotland in the union sounds a bit like voting for the SNP would mean the children of Africa will go without an education, just as the mothers of Sierra Leone will die in childbirth.
Liebour has really sunk to a new low. If you vote SNP a wee baby in Africa dies, so vote for wee Wendy. Absolutley shameful and disgusting.
Posted by: Jwil, Lanarkshire on 12:14am Sat 29 Mar 08
There is more than a fair measure of sarcasm in this article!
There is more than a fair measure of sarcasm in this article!
Posted by: subrosa on 12:14am Sat 29 Mar 08
I didn't read it all. I started but realised it was rehashed stuff.
I didn't read it all. I started but realised it was rehashed stuff.
Posted by: Big Eye, Paisley on 12:16am Sat 29 Mar 08
Gordon Brown I am ashamed you are Scottish!
You disgrace our nation!
Gordon Brown I am ashamed you are Scottish!
You disgrace our nation!
Posted by: ratzo on 12:16am Sat 29 Mar 08
I think this is pretty reasonable. Its a reports what everyone already knows, namely that Labour have no ideas and pretty much confirms that these are the last days for Brown and Alexander. Brown is another Major and Alexander is worthless other than as a historical curio for future undergrad essays.
I think this is pretty reasonable. Its a reports what everyone already knows, namely that Labour have no ideas and pretty much confirms that these are the last days for Brown and Alexander. Brown is another Major and Alexander is worthless other than as a historical curio for future undergrad essays.
Posted by: ditchgazza on 12:31am Sat 29 Mar 08
Gazzas speech
Digital Mogadon.
Gazzas speech
Digital Mogadon.
Posted by: Karin, glasgae. on 12:36am Sat 29 Mar 08
Douglas they also thought scotland couldnt be independent or so they said.
We now know differently.
Douglas they also thought scotland couldnt be independent or so they said.
We now know differently.
Posted by: Bungle, An ITV Storage Cupboard on 12:45am Sat 29 Mar 08
Jimbo on 12:08am today
[[quote]quote]Dream the impossible dream and, yes, Wendy Alexander can be next First Minister.[/quote]
Only if they build her a new church.
What a sycophant you are Fraser.[/quote]
Read the article again Jimbo and less of the boorish insults.
It's sarcasm.
Jimbo on 12:08am today
quote]Dream the impossible dream and, yes, Wendy Alexander can be next First Minister.
Only if they build her a new church.
What a sycophant you are Fraser.
Read the article again Jimbo and less of the boorish insults.
It's sarcasm.
Posted by: Bungle, An ITV Storage Cupboard on 12:46am Sat 29 Mar 08
[quote][bold]Jimbo[/bold] wrote:
[quote]Dream the impossible dream and, yes, Wendy Alexander can be next First Minister.[/quote] Only if they build her a new church. What a sycophant you are Fraser. [/quote] Read the article again Jimbo and less of the boorish insults.
It's sarcasm.
Jimbo wrote:
Dream the impossible dream and, yes, Wendy Alexander can be next First Minister.
Only if they build her a new church. What a sycophant you are Fraser.
Read the article again Jimbo and less of the boorish insults.
It's sarcasm.
Posted by: gurugordon, US on 1:44am Sat 29 Mar 08
"Dream the impossible dream and, yes, Wendy Alexander can be next First Minister."
Yes, and pigs will grow wings and defecate all over her.
"Dream the impossible dream and, yes, Wendy Alexander can be next First Minister."
Yes, and pigs will grow wings and defecate all over her.
Posted by: doonhamer on 1:49am Sat 29 Mar 08
Does that mean that all the other pish that Fraser writes is sarcasm too? Could I have been very wrong about the man? Is he really as closet Nationalist?
[bold]
NAH.. he is still a Labour stooge.... warning: this is not sarcasm.[[/bold]
Does that mean that all the other pish that Fraser writes is sarcasm too? Could I have been very wrong about the man? Is he really as closet Nationalist?
NAH.. he is still a Labour stooge.... warning: this is not sarcasm.[ Posted by: Jock Politicaljunkie, Glasgow on 1:50am Sat 29 Mar 08
You sarcastic old dog Douglas!!
Excellent piece, fair made me chuckle. Particularly liked the "Dream the imposible dream" gag!!
Peddling this sort of defeatist, negative drivel didn't work last May, so how come they think it will work next time?... Oh yes, coz they know best, what was I thinking. Completely forgot that Gordon has a brain the size of a planet and Wendy (Miss 10 out of 10) is such a great intellect. We are, in truth, so lucky to have the pair of them. Were it not for their selfless sacrifice in public service they would clearly be Chess Grand Masters, or unlocking the secrets of the cosmos, or curing cancer.
Oh, lucky us.
You sarcastic old dog Douglas!!
Excellent piece, fair made me chuckle. Particularly liked the "Dream the imposible dream" gag!!
Peddling this sort of defeatist, negative drivel didn't work last May, so how come they think it will work next time?... Oh yes, coz they know best, what was I thinking. Completely forgot that Gordon has a brain the size of a planet and Wendy (Miss 10 out of 10) is such a great intellect. We are, in truth, so lucky to have the pair of them. Were it not for their selfless sacrifice in public service they would clearly be Chess Grand Masters, or unlocking the secrets of the cosmos, or curing cancer.
Oh, lucky us.
Posted by: Wullie, Aberdeen on 2:05am Sat 29 Mar 08
It maybe sarcasm, but many a true word spoken in jest and Douglas Fraser as we all know is a glove puppet of David Cairns.
It maybe sarcasm, but many a true word spoken in jest and Douglas Fraser as we all know is a glove puppet of David Cairns.
Posted by: Donald Anderson, glasgow on 2:55am Sat 29 Mar 08
Irony is not for the thick.
Dougie wrote this on his knees. He will be there for the standing ovation. God save the Labour Queen.
I won't be buying the Herald/Labour Bugle today.
Irony is not for the thick.
Dougie wrote this on his knees. He will be there for the standing ovation. God save the Labour Queen.
I won't be buying the Herald/Labour Bugle today.
Posted by: Mike, Edinburgh on 4:57am Sat 29 Mar 08
I think we are all getting a bit excited here. Douglas was taking the ****, not volunteering any positive opinion about Brown the loser or Wendy the thief. He knows they are both destined to political obscurity very soon. The English People will destroy both him and their Party after the English May Council Elections.
His power base in Scotland is fast disappearing, Labour membership is at an alltime low, they dont even know how they are going to get enough of their usual puppy dog sycophant helpers for the next election here in Scotland. You know the ones that they promise the world to before they get back in to their ivory towers, and start to think it was nothing to do with the ordinary Scottish Folk, It was purely because of their natural right to rule the Scottish People and keep them and their country poor enough, drunk enough and doped out of their heads enough, to just think that its just the way of the world, and this is all that is available for them and their bairns.
AYE VOTE FOR WENDY AND SHE WILL TELL HER FOLK ITS ALRIGHT TO GET BACK INTO THE BROWN ENVELOPE MODE.
VOTE FOR BROWN THE TRAITOR AND HE WILL MAKE SURE YOU ALL GET ANOTHER THREE HUNDRED YEARS OF ALWAYS BEING THAT BIT MORE POOR THAN OTHER PEOPLE FROM OTHER COUNTRIES> YES A VOTE FOR BROWN MEANS HE DOESNT RETURN THE FAVOUR< BUT INSTEADS DENIES ALL OF US A VOTE ON OUR COUNTRIES FUTURE WHETHER IT MEANS GIVING THE EUROPEANS OUR OIL AND FISHING GROUNDS< OR JUST TIPPING OUR HAT TO OUR LONDON MASTERS>
I think we are all getting a bit excited here. Douglas was taking the ****, not volunteering any positive opinion about Brown the loser or Wendy the thief. He knows they are both destined to political obscurity very soon. The English People will destroy both him and their Party after the English May Council Elections.
His power base in Scotland is fast disappearing, Labour membership is at an alltime low, they dont even know how they are going to get enough of their usual puppy dog sycophant helpers for the next election here in Scotland. You know the ones that they promise the world to before they get back in to their ivory towers, and start to think it was nothing to do with the ordinary Scottish Folk, It was purely because of their natural right to rule the Scottish People and keep them and their country poor enough, drunk enough and doped out of their heads enough, to just think that its just the way of the world, and this is all that is available for them and their bairns.
AYE VOTE FOR WENDY AND SHE WILL TELL HER FOLK ITS ALRIGHT TO GET BACK INTO THE BROWN ENVELOPE MODE.
VOTE FOR BROWN THE TRAITOR AND HE WILL MAKE SURE YOU ALL GET ANOTHER THREE HUNDRED YEARS OF ALWAYS BEING THAT BIT MORE POOR THAN OTHER PEOPLE FROM OTHER COUNTRIES> YES A VOTE FOR BROWN MEANS HE DOESNT RETURN THE FAVOUR< BUT INSTEADS DENIES ALL OF US A VOTE ON OUR COUNTRIES FUTURE WHETHER IT MEANS GIVING THE EUROPEANS OUR OIL AND FISHING GROUNDS< OR JUST TIPPING OUR HAT TO OUR LONDON MASTERS>
Posted by: Wardog, Buckie on 7:21am Sat 29 Mar 08
[quote]
The new argument for keeping Scotland in the union sounds a bit like voting for the SNP would mean the children of Africa will go without an education, just as the mothers of Sierra Leone will die in childbirth.[/quote]
Labour just haven't learned, no longer content with just scaremongering about £5000 tax bills, the sky falling in and the end of Scotland as 'we know it' - they now aim to carry on this scaremongering tactic but now also want to and put everyone on an imagined guilt trip.....
It would be pathetic if it wasn't so sick.
Bro0on should be ashamed of himself.
The new argument for keeping Scotland in the union sounds a bit like voting for the SNP would mean the children of Africa will go without an education, just as the mothers of Sierra Leone will die in childbirth.
Labour just haven't learned, no longer content with just scaremongering about £5000 tax bills, the sky falling in and the end of Scotland as 'we know it' - they now aim to carry on this scaremongering tactic but now also want to and put everyone on an imagined guilt trip.....
It would be pathetic if it wasn't so sick.
Bro0on should be ashamed of himself.
Posted by: puskas, East Kilbride on 7:52am Sat 29 Mar 08
The unionists have nothing to offer Scotland...
Same old, same old waffle.
We have to be on our guard and debate pro-independence views amongst the electorate . The battle of words and ideology have to be won with no help from all sources of the media.
Like many others I cannot understand why anyone would wish to vote for NuLiebour. I say that as an ex-Labour member who once worked my socks off for a LCP..
A genuine question to the board :
How many of you once voted labour like myself.
The unionists have nothing to offer Scotland...
Same old, same old waffle.
We have to be on our guard and debate pro-independence views amongst the electorate . The battle of words and ideology have to be won with no help from all sources of the media.
Like many others I cannot understand why anyone would wish to vote for NuLiebour. I say that as an ex-Labour member who once worked my socks off for a LCP..
A genuine question to the board :
How many of you once voted labour like myself.
Posted by: oldmack, Scotland on 7:53am Sat 29 Mar 08
Gordon Brown, history Honours graduate from Edinburgh University, say’s it all really.
His diatribe yesterday at Aviemore, was nothing more than a regurgitated lesson on how not to address the Nation.
His wandering about on stage, (not so easy to hit a moving target) and with no notes! Looked great, marks for the day, presentation 9 out of 10, subject mater 2 out of 10, knowledge of his location and political history minus 5.
The reason for his minus 5 was simple the party he is supposed to be the great leader lost in Scotland, he still does not yet understand that; he has already tried to keep the Scottish People from taking decisions for themselves.
Remember the pizza meetings trying to block the SNP? Then there was the rehash of accounting regarding the health expenditure in England, removing certain figures in order to reduce the numbers for crunching purposes applicable to the Barnett formula.
What are we now being drip fed? It would be better if some items were to be returned to Westminster that are in the Scotland Act.
The brain washing has been going on for some time, first it was “National Security”, now it “Terrorism” with the new one slipping in regularly “Global Warming”
So what is it Gordon and his Mouth Piece in Scotland want? “Terrorism” read control of internal policing in Scotland to be delivered just like the “MET” do it in London, detention without trial, armed idiots running around in Police uniforms controlled by the politicians in the Justice ministry in London.
“Global Warming” now this is the big one, to be able to provide power before the lights go out Gordon requires that Scotland will provide places that Nuclear Power stations will be built. In order to do this Gordon requires strategic planning control to be “centralised” to allow London to dictate where the atomic waste will be buried in Scotland and the Stations located.
Gordon Brown, history Honours graduate from Edinburgh University, say’s it all really.
His diatribe yesterday at Aviemore, was nothing more than a regurgitated lesson on how not to address the Nation.
His wandering about on stage, (not so easy to hit a moving target) and with no notes! Looked great, marks for the day, presentation 9 out of 10, subject mater 2 out of 10, knowledge of his location and political history minus 5.
The reason for his minus 5 was simple the party he is supposed to be the great leader lost in Scotland, he still does not yet understand that; he has already tried to keep the Scottish People from taking decisions for themselves.
Remember the pizza meetings trying to block the SNP? Then there was the rehash of accounting regarding the health expenditure in England, removing certain figures in order to reduce the numbers for crunching purposes applicable to the Barnett formula.
What are we now being drip fed? It would be better if some items were to be returned to Westminster that are in the Scotland Act.
The brain washing has been going on for some time, first it was “National Security”, now it “Terrorism” with the new one slipping in regularly “Global Warming”
So what is it Gordon and his Mouth Piece in Scotland want? “Terrorism” read control of internal policing in Scotland to be delivered just like the “MET” do it in London, detention without trial, armed idiots running around in Police uniforms controlled by the politicians in the Justice ministry in London.
“Global Warming” now this is the big one, to be able to provide power before the lights go out Gordon requires that Scotland will provide places that Nuclear Power stations will be built. In order to do this Gordon requires strategic planning control to be “centralised” to allow London to dictate where the atomic waste will be buried in Scotland and the Stations located.
Posted by: EuroMac, Isolated in Europe on 8:05am Sat 29 Mar 08
[bold]OldMack[/bold] (no relation, I'm sure).
You're right, and even the Guardian agrees:
[italic]"Even the Prime Minister must have known this was a dreadful speech. It was leaden, badly delivered, had nothing new to impart, and came over terribly on the box. Some brave soul is going to have to sit him down and tell him it's time to get his act together."[/italic]
http://www.guardian.
co.uk/politics/2008/
mar/29/gordonbrown.l
abour1
OldMack (no relation, I'm sure).
You're right, and even the Guardian agrees:
"Even the Prime Minister must have known this was a dreadful speech. It was leaden, badly delivered, had nothing new to impart, and came over terribly on the box. Some brave soul is going to have to sit him down and tell him it's time to get his act together."
http://www.guardian.
co.uk/politics/2008/
mar/29/gordonbrown.l
abour1
Posted by: Celtic Lion, Roar on 8:11am Sat 29 Mar 08
I'm not sure what Douglas means by "[italic]You kind of know what he's getting at, but it's an argument in the early stages of development.[/italic]" I don't know what he's getting at, or can't believe it anyway. As far as I could tell Brown was saying [italic]"You selfish bar stewards, vote for independence and a child will die. Is that what you really want?"[/italic] Wullie was correct (that doesn't seem right) when he wrote it's "shameful and disgusting."
I don't know why people are getting so worked up about "[italic]Dream the [bold]impossible dream[/bold] and, yes, [bold]Wendy Alexander[/bold] can be [bold]next First Minister[/bold].[/italic]" Douglas is saying "You think Wendy can be next First Minister? Then you're living in cloud cuckoo land." He obviously isn't so adept with words as I am though. ;-)
I suffered the whole speech by web-cast, and it was a tossy little speech. It hardly seemed to mention Scotland at all. I'm sure it didn't raise the spirits of anyone there. The best parts were the camera shots of the audience and spotting the ones sleeping and others with an “Eh?” expression.
I'm not sure what Douglas means by "
You kind of know what he's getting at, but it's an argument in the early stages of development." I don't know what he's getting at, or can't believe it anyway. As far as I could tell Brown was saying
"You selfish bar stewards, vote for independence and a child will die. Is that what you really want?" Wullie was correct (that doesn't seem right) when he wrote it's "shameful and disgusting."
I don't know why people are getting so worked up about "
Dream the impossible dream and, yes, Wendy Alexander can be next First Minister." Douglas is saying "You think Wendy can be next First Minister? Then you're living in cloud cuckoo land." He obviously isn't so adept with words as I am though. ;-)
I suffered the whole speech by web-cast, and it was a tossy little speech. It hardly seemed to mention Scotland at all. I'm sure it didn't raise the spirits of anyone there. The best parts were the camera shots of the audience and spotting the ones sleeping and others with an “Eh?” expression.
Posted by: subrosa on 8:32am Sat 29 Mar 08
[italic]Posted by: puskas, East Kilbride on 7:52am today
[/italic]
Never voted labour in my life. I never like their attachment to trade unions. Have voted Tory for my sins though :)
Posted by: puskas, East Kilbride on 7:52am today
Never voted labour in my life. I never like their attachment to trade unions. Have voted Tory for my sins though :)
Posted by: pehman, sussex on 8:44am Sat 29 Mar 08
More backward looking negativism from a party bankrupt of any clue
The stench of peutrification in that hall must be overpowering
More backward looking negativism from a party bankrupt of any clue
The stench of peutrification in that hall must be overpowering
Posted by: pehman, sussex on 9:07am Sat 29 Mar 08
Puskas,
voted lab 1
voted the old Scottish lab 2
Other than that I've always voted SNP, I only voted the others because there was no SNP candidate
Puskas,
voted lab 1
voted the old Scottish lab 2
Other than that I've always voted SNP, I only voted the others because there was no SNP candidate
Posted by: Mr Angry, ayrshire on 9:20am Sat 29 Mar 08
Good article, and Douglas got it right, what an idiot Brown is, his speech was woeful, will go down as worst ever prime minister without a shadow of a doubt.
Good article, and Douglas got it right, what an idiot Brown is, his speech was woeful, will go down as worst ever prime minister without a shadow of a doubt.
Posted by: Los Angeles, Edinburgh on 9:48am Sat 29 Mar 08
And I agree with Angy.
Fraser got it right. Brown's speech was tawdry, tired, clapped out rhetoric.
And I agree with Angy.
Fraser got it right. Brown's speech was tawdry, tired, clapped out rhetoric.
Posted by: Theoderic, Ravenna on 9:58am Sat 29 Mar 08
I feel a little bit sorry for Gordon Brown. All the certainties of the '80s and '90s (the class war; British imperial identity; left and right; no Euro or coherent EU), which provided the foundation upon which he has built his political vision (SNP as dividers who are an impediment to the class victory; SNP as wreckers of British identity; SNP distorting hindering the victory of the left; SNP wanting to 'isolate Scotland' from the international community).
All of these things have now gone: the class war is almost Victorian in its distance from the present; British identity a distant memory of bisto and black and white TV; the left right distinction totally blurred - ironically thanks to Brown and Blair; and an SNP which wants to reintegrate Scotland into the European community as a fully active member.
To me his speech sounded a little empty. Empty, that is, of content which had any firm connection with the present; and empty of and real connection with reality. It was a series of soundbites, buzzwords, which had their emmotional and semantic truth grounded in a different, anterior reality.
Talk of not being able to see relatives in England, and the world suddenly being deprived of aid, implied an audience still huddled in front of a black and white TV, able to be manipulated by a fear of the world outside (a world which would steal our bisto and get rid of the certainties of 'our' British way of life).
I feel sorry for him if he still actually believes that that still world exists.
I feel a little bit sorry for Gordon Brown. All the certainties of the '80s and '90s (the class war; British imperial identity; left and right; no Euro or coherent EU), which provided the foundation upon which he has built his political vision (SNP as dividers who are an impediment to the class victory; SNP as wreckers of British identity; SNP distorting hindering the victory of the left; SNP wanting to 'isolate Scotland' from the international community).
All of these things have now gone: the class war is almost Victorian in its distance from the present; British identity a distant memory of bisto and black and white TV; the left right distinction totally blurred - ironically thanks to Brown and Blair; and an SNP which wants to reintegrate Scotland into the European community as a fully active member.
To me his speech sounded a little empty. Empty, that is, of content which had any firm connection with the present; and empty of and real connection with reality. It was a series of soundbites, buzzwords, which had their emmotional and semantic truth grounded in a different, anterior reality.
Talk of not being able to see relatives in England, and the world suddenly being deprived of aid, implied an audience still huddled in front of a black and white TV, able to be manipulated by a fear of the world outside (a world which would steal our bisto and get rid of the certainties of 'our' British way of life).
I feel sorry for him if he still actually believes that that still world exists.
Posted by: Jimmy Mac, Shetland on 10:13am Sat 29 Mar 08
A very entertaining article, Douglas. A nice blend of Irony and sarcasm.
From the BBC regarding Wendy Alexander's speech today at Aviemore
'It is also thought she will accuse the SNP government of incompetence and dishonesty'
Mirror, mirror on the wall ................
A very entertaining article, Douglas. A nice blend of Irony and sarcasm.
From the BBC regarding Wendy Alexander's speech today at Aviemore
'It is also thought she will accuse the SNP government of incompetence and dishonesty'
Mirror, mirror on the wall ................
Posted by: GML, right here on 10:19am Sat 29 Mar 08
If you follow Mr Brown's logic to its conclusion, the reason why babies are starving in Africa is becasue of the demise of the British Empire. More power in London means more good for the world, right?
If only Canada, Australia, New Zealand, Ireland, India and the United States of America hadn't left the imperial union, then the Scottish titans of British politics (including, er, Mr Brown himself, along with Dougie Alexander, Des Browne and Wendy "Bo Derek" Alexander) would have the unfettered power to solve all the world's problems.
What has happened to the Labour party of Keir Hardie?
I mean, [italic]what happened to them?[/italic]
If you follow Mr Brown's logic to its conclusion, the reason why babies are starving in Africa is becasue of the demise of the British Empire. More power in London means more good for the world, right?
If only Canada, Australia, New Zealand, Ireland, India and the United States of America hadn't left the imperial union, then the Scottish titans of British politics (including, er, Mr Brown himself, along with Dougie Alexander, Des Browne and Wendy "Bo Derek" Alexander) would have the unfettered power to solve all the world's problems.
What has happened to the Labour party of Keir Hardie?
I mean,
what happened to them? Posted by: David on 10:22am Sat 29 Mar 08
[bold]Wendy now confirms that returning powers to Westminster was not her wish but that of her boss Gordon Brown. A very skilled Radio Scotland interview. She does get 10 out of 10 for dreaming if not for competence. Sad really![/bold]
Wendy now confirms that returning powers to Westminster was not her wish but that of her boss Gordon Brown. A very skilled Radio Scotland interview. She does get 10 out of 10 for dreaming if not for competence. Sad really! Posted by: puskas, East Kilbride on 10:40am Sat 29 Mar 08
Thanks for the replies buddies.. regards question on previous voting contribution...
We have to educate our folks who have doubts about independence... It is a long route but possible by taking the debate to every alleyway in our country Scotland.
The nationalist view for independence is winning but the latter vote winning will be the hardest to crack. The fear that some have on independence for our nation will be hard to win over. Others like the unionists can be out voted at a referendum by a mile and given the £10 vouchers to emigrate across the border or wherever they wish. Scotland will be a progressive country with no need for slackers and religous freaks . We as a people in general will be better off and vibrant without them..... An Independent Scotland open to all peoples who wish to live a good life within our society is my dream for the future.
Thanks for the replies buddies.. regards question on previous voting contribution...
We have to educate our folks who have doubts about independence... It is a long route but possible by taking the debate to every alleyway in our country Scotland.
The nationalist view for independence is winning but the latter vote winning will be the hardest to crack. The fear that some have on independence for our nation will be hard to win over. Others like the unionists can be out voted at a referendum by a mile and given the £10 vouchers to emigrate across the border or wherever they wish. Scotland will be a progressive country with no need for slackers and religous freaks . We as a people in general will be better off and vibrant without them..... An Independent Scotland open to all peoples who wish to live a good life within our society is my dream for the future.
Posted by: Trouserpress, Glasgow on 10:45am Sat 29 Mar 08
'Dream the impossible dream'. Thanks for giving me such a good laugh Douglas. I am politically neutral and a journalist like yourself.
Except...you seem not to be a journalist anymore, writing tosh such as that. Do you file your copy while wearing a cheerleader outfit?
I expect more of The Herald. While we're at it, can someone think the unthinkable and send Ian Bell on an Englsih language course? Ta.
'Dream the impossible dream'. Thanks for giving me such a good laugh Douglas. I am politically neutral and a journalist like yourself.
Except...you seem not to be a journalist anymore, writing tosh such as that. Do you file your copy while wearing a cheerleader outfit?
I expect more of The Herald. While we're at it, can someone think the unthinkable and send Ian Bell on an Englsih language course? Ta.
Posted by: Trouserpress, Glasgow on 10:46am Sat 29 Mar 08
...or an 'English language course', even.
...or an 'English language course', even.
Posted by: Trouserpress, Glasgow on 10:48am Sat 29 Mar 08
It was sarcasm? Must be too subtle for me.
It was sarcasm? Must be too subtle for me.
Posted by: Theoderic, Ravenna on 10:54am Sat 29 Mar 08
Puskas,
I don't think that those who have misgivings about Scotland as a sovereign state are necessarily going to 'cross the border' to escape it should it come.
I also doubt that nationalists 'convincing' them about the benefits (as the convicer conceives of them) will be at all useful.
Events and the course of history, meandering its slow, heavy way towards an increasingly desirable (intuitively) and probably practically inevitable conclusion will be the real trigger for change.
I do believe that Scotland will eventually become a sovereign EU state. I think that it will happen in a way that the majority of the Scottish poluation are comfortable with. I think that that way will be characterised by incremental change rather than immediate revolution.
Puskas,
I don't think that those who have misgivings about Scotland as a sovereign state are necessarily going to 'cross the border' to escape it should it come.
I also doubt that nationalists 'convincing' them about the benefits (as the convicer conceives of them) will be at all useful.
Events and the course of history, meandering its slow, heavy way towards an increasingly desirable (intuitively) and probably practically inevitable conclusion will be the real trigger for change.
I do believe that Scotland will eventually become a sovereign EU state. I think that it will happen in a way that the majority of the Scottish poluation are comfortable with. I think that that way will be characterised by incremental change rather than immediate revolution.
Posted by: John Leven, Leven Fife on 10:58am Sat 29 Mar 08
Douglas
Wit does become you. Is it the beginning of the end for Broon? Douglas gently taking the P***, though unfortunately not in his main article. The Scotsman with a cartoon taking the P*** as well. Once they start laughing at you Gordon particularly the pro union papers, the games a bogey as they used to say in Methil.
Douglas
Wit does become you. Is it the beginning of the end for Broon? Douglas gently taking the P***, though unfortunately not in his main article. The Scotsman with a cartoon taking the P*** as well. Once they start laughing at you Gordon particularly the pro union papers, the games a bogey as they used to say in Methil.
Posted by: LEGION, ALBA on 11:52am Sat 29 Mar 08
The new argument for keeping Scotland in the union sounds a bit like voting for the SNP would mean the children of Africa will go without an education, just as the mothers of Sierra Leone will die in childbirth.
I've worked extensively in Sierra Leone. Ireland, Denmark and other similar sized countries to Scotland have extensive, successful aid-programmes there. For Brown to use our self-government as a cause of dead babies in Freetown, Bo, Makeni etc is absolutely disgraceful. The traitor has no shame.
The new argument for keeping Scotland in the union sounds a bit like voting for the SNP would mean the children of Africa will go without an education, just as the mothers of Sierra Leone will die in childbirth.
I've worked extensively in Sierra Leone. Ireland, Denmark and other similar sized countries to Scotland have extensive, successful aid-programmes there. For Brown to use our self-government as a cause of dead babies in Freetown, Bo, Makeni etc is absolutely disgraceful. The traitor has no shame.
Posted by: alicmurray, Glasgow on 12:41pm Sat 29 Mar 08
Yes traitor is the best description for Broon, Broone, Alexanders, Cairns in addition to loathesome, self seving low lifes.
Yes traitor is the best description for Broon, Broone, Alexanders, Cairns in addition to loathesome, self seving low lifes.
Posted by: ratzo on 12:51pm Sat 29 Mar 08
GML, 10:19am asks
[quote]What has happened to the Labour party of Keir Hardie?
I mean, what happened to them?[/quote]
It fractured in 1924 when Ramsay Macdonald broke the scottish consensus for creating a parliament, opting for London centralisation instead, then split properly, with the ILP in 1932.
It turned its ambitions towards a kind of time-serving numptie managerialism that is now horribly familiar. At that time the Tories under Walter Elliot were more effective in implementing what would be more recognisable as British corporatism (and had the tories won in 1945 they would have been described as the party of the NHS & council housing, not Labour, because the tories had similar policies).
Even in 1945 the scottish labour vote was unenthusiastic by comparison with the rest of the UK. And famously the Tories got the their highest ever vote in Scotland 1951 when Labour were ditched. The 'Scottish Council of the Labour Party' , as Scottish Labour were called until fairly recently, essentially abandoned their weak commitment to a Scottish parliament and sent generations of invisible men to westminster while at the local level a culture of cynical graft and corruption became completely ingrained (even during the War, as the Herald itself noted in 1942).
It was 'Scottish' labour that gerrymandered the 1979 Assembly with the astonishing 40% rule - which also meant that people who had died since the previous census were counted as voting 'no' - and Labour itself campaigned against the Assembly. When Neil Kinnock was told before the vote that by killing off the chances of the Assembly he was certainly ushering in Margaret Thatcher he said 'Good'!
The rest is, as they say, history. Blair & Brown took the principle of power-for-its-own-sa
ke to its logical conclusion. Wendy Alexander is the [italic]Reductio ad absurdam[/italic] of this process.
GML, 10:19am asks
What has happened to the Labour party of Keir Hardie?
I mean, what happened to them?
It fractured in 1924 when Ramsay Macdonald broke the scottish consensus for creating a parliament, opting for London centralisation instead, then split properly, with the ILP in 1932.
It turned its ambitions towards a kind of time-serving numptie managerialism that is now horribly familiar. At that time the Tories under Walter Elliot were more effective in implementing what would be more recognisable as British corporatism (and had the tories won in 1945 they would have been described as the party of the NHS & council housing, not Labour, because the tories had similar policies).
Even in 1945 the scottish labour vote was unenthusiastic by comparison with the rest of the UK. And famously the Tories got the their highest ever vote in Scotland 1951 when Labour were ditched. The 'Scottish Council of the Labour Party' , as Scottish Labour were called until fairly recently, essentially abandoned their weak commitment to a Scottish parliament and sent generations of invisible men to westminster while at the local level a culture of cynical graft and corruption became completely ingrained (even during the War, as the Herald itself noted in 1942).
It was 'Scottish' labour that gerrymandered the 1979 Assembly with the astonishing 40% rule - which also meant that people who had died since the previous census were counted as voting 'no' - and Labour itself campaigned against the Assembly. When Neil Kinnock was told before the vote that by killing off the chances of the Assembly he was certainly ushering in Margaret Thatcher he said 'Good'!
The rest is, as they say, history. Blair & Brown took the principle of power-for-its-own-sa
ke to its logical conclusion. Wendy Alexander is the
Reductio ad absurdam of this process.
Posted by: Dave, Embra on 1:23pm Sat 29 Mar 08
Theoderic:
'All of these things have now gone: the class war is almost Victorian in its distance from the present;'
Not true; it's just changed its form. I mean, do YOU feel anything in common with these 'swing voters' down south who Labour, the Tories and Lib-Dems are so desperate to appeal to?
Theoderic:
'All of these things have now gone: the class war is almost Victorian in its distance from the present;'
Not true; it's just changed its form. I mean, do YOU feel anything in common with these 'swing voters' down south who Labour, the Tories and Lib-Dems are so desperate to appeal to?
Posted by: Dave, Embra on 1:23pm Sat 29 Mar 08
Theoderic:
'All of these things have now gone: the class war is almost Victorian in its distance from the present;'
Not true; it's just changed its form. I mean, do YOU feel anything in common with these 'swing voters' down south who Labour, the Tories and Lib-Dems are so desperate to appeal to?
Theoderic:
'All of these things have now gone: the class war is almost Victorian in its distance from the present;'
Not true; it's just changed its form. I mean, do YOU feel anything in common with these 'swing voters' down south who Labour, the Tories and Lib-Dems are so desperate to appeal to?
Posted by: Theoderic, Ravenna on 1:37pm Sat 29 Mar 08
Dave,
the class war as understood in the 'Britain' of 30 to 40 years ago is dead (a reminant of the English class system superimposed upon a 'British' model).
Obviously 'class' in itself, as a measurer of distinction in society will always be there.
but it is now distinctly Amereican and meritocratic in flavour.
Dave,
the class war as understood in the 'Britain' of 30 to 40 years ago is dead (a reminant of the English class system superimposed upon a 'British' model).
Obviously 'class' in itself, as a measurer of distinction in society will always be there.
but it is now distinctly Amereican and meritocratic in flavour.
Posted by: Disgusted Dorothy, Glasgow on 1:45pm Sat 29 Mar 08
And BBC Scotland said he gave an impassioned speech in support of the Union!
Must have missed the passion bit!!
And BBC Scotland said he gave an impassioned speech in support of the Union!
Must have missed the passion bit!!
Posted by: pehman, sussex on 1:54pm Sat 29 Mar 08
Yeah blair brown and wendy are making real changes to slab membership.
Halved in 10 years
ALEX SALMOND, SLAB SLAYER
Yeah blair brown and wendy are making real changes to slab membership.
Halved in 10 years
ALEX SALMOND, SLAB SLAYER
Posted by: tris, scotland on 2:09pm Sat 29 Mar 08
[quote]You kind of know what he's getting at[/quote]
Nope. Not a clue what he's getting at....
Is he saying that if Scotland leaves the Union, the rest of the UK will no longer give any aid to Africa (maybe because all the aid comes from our oil?), or is he suggesting that Scotland won't give any aid to Africa? Not likely to be true. We're by and large a philanthropic lot.
So........ What on earth was he talking about?
Anybody know... ?
You kind of know what he's getting at
Nope. Not a clue what he's getting at....
Is he saying that if Scotland leaves the Union, the rest of the UK will no longer give any aid to Africa (maybe because all the aid comes from our oil?), or is he suggesting that Scotland won't give any aid to Africa? Not likely to be true. We're by and large a philanthropic lot.
So........ What on earth was he talking about?
Anybody know... ?
Posted by: jomellon, Lodève, France on 2:46pm Sat 29 Mar 08
Grand contributions from Theoderic, Ravenna...
As for Broon's speech:does he think he can scare us with the need to hurry to London to see their relatives before Scottish independence?
There are practicaly no borders in the EU now [bold]except[/bold] to Britain: so much for "interdependence" being promoted by Britishness:
Grand contributions from Theoderic, Ravenna...
As for Broon's speech:does he think he can scare us with the need to hurry to London to see their relatives before Scottish independence?
There are practicaly no borders in the EU now
except to Britain: so much for "interdependence" being promoted by Britishness:
Posted by: art1000, Dunfermline on 3:15pm Sat 29 Mar 08
Unbelievable set of comments. I wonder how the NuLabbers in Aviemore feel when they read them (if they dare).
Prepare for your p45s guys. The days of endless sponging around at taxpayer's expense are over. Broon is a goner. NuLab are finished. The next two decades are to be Tory in Westminster. I really think that the Libs will become the second party with Labour becoming essentially a 20th century abberation whose sole accomplishment s would be founding the NHS and keeping Scotland in the Union.
Do you think Scotland will benefit from another feeble fifty MPs? At least its fifty jobs for the boys Maybe if you work your butts off to keep Scotland in the Union then Dave will look kindly on you and you might be able to scape a few more out of it. In my view, may all you NuLab spongers all collectively rot in hell.
Unbelievable set of comments. I wonder how the NuLabbers in Aviemore feel when they read them (if they dare).
Prepare for your p45s guys. The days of endless sponging around at taxpayer's expense are over. Broon is a goner. NuLab are finished. The next two decades are to be Tory in Westminster. I really think that the Libs will become the second party with Labour becoming essentially a 20th century abberation whose sole accomplishment s would be founding the NHS and keeping Scotland in the Union.
Do you think Scotland will benefit from another feeble fifty MPs? At least its fifty jobs for the boys Maybe if you work your butts off to keep Scotland in the Union then Dave will look kindly on you and you might be able to scape a few more out of it. In my view, may all you NuLab spongers all collectively rot in hell.
Posted by: Vronsky, Scotland on 3:16pm Sat 29 Mar 08
Theodoric says:
the class war is almost Victorian in its distance from the present
Nope. I might be like one of those Japanese WW2 soldiers lost for thirty years in the jungle, but I don't think so - I think it's you folks out there who think the war is over who are in the minority. To me, separation is the class war pursued by other means - we'll never break the British state apparatus, so let's leave and try a smaller project. A bit like the Greens' slogan: think globally, act locally. Dear me, no, you haven't seen the last of us class warriors yet.
Brown still believes totally in the class war, for the very good reason that he feels himself to be on the winning side. It certainly pays the better salaries. You didn't swallow that stuff about his being a socialist, did you?
Anyway, I wonder if this piece by Doug Fraser means that the Herald has at last been embarrassed into taking the political sketch from Ian Bell, at least until the de-tox is complete. It's certainly an improvement.
Theodoric says:
the class war is almost Victorian in its distance from the present
Nope. I might be like one of those Japanese WW2 soldiers lost for thirty years in the jungle, but I don't think so - I think it's you folks out there who think the war is over who are in the minority. To me, separation is the class war pursued by other means - we'll never break the British state apparatus, so let's leave and try a smaller project. A bit like the Greens' slogan: think globally, act locally. Dear me, no, you haven't seen the last of us class warriors yet.
Brown still believes totally in the class war, for the very good reason that he feels himself to be on the winning side. It certainly pays the better salaries. You didn't swallow that stuff about his being a socialist, did you?
Anyway, I wonder if this piece by Doug Fraser means that the Herald has at last been embarrassed into taking the political sketch from Ian Bell, at least until the de-tox is complete. It's certainly an improvement.
Posted by: ratzo on 5:10pm Sat 29 Mar 08
[Apologies for posting this elsewhere]
a thought strikes:
The tartan tory smear is very lame but I wonder if it is an unintentional assumption that the Tories will be in power in westminster very soon and therefore it makes sense to conflate them with the SNP as a kind of amorphous but total opposition to 'socialism'.
On the other hand too much talk of socialism is going to be mighty difficult to sustain. Socialism was officially ditched by Labour following the successful emergence of the Social Democrats from the failing labour party under Michael Foot. Brown himself was part of that process and published various texts (e.g. in 1983) about the success of the New Right and the need to ditch the left to create a realistic new agenda for 'equality'.
If the 'socialist' rhetoric is sustained for longer than merely the conference event, it will just revisit ancient arguments about raising taxes for nanny-state (cradle to grave) redistribution. More tax and ID cards too? That is just suicidal. And it evokes all the deadly weak points in the labour armour about totalitarianism and authoritarianism that caused Labour to ditch socialism in the first place.
I'm starting to think the 'populist' squeak about socialism was in fact a big mistake.
The speech itself was catastrophic at the outset and you could almost hear the rapid drumming of panicked labout hearts. Given the extraordinary levels of obesity of most of the delegates, she would have killed half of them if she'd carried on, but she managed to recover a bit.
a thought strikes:
The tartan tory smear is very lame but I wonder if it is an unintentional assumption that the Tories will be in power in westminster very soon and therefore it makes sense to conflate them with the SNP as a kind of amorphous but total opposition to 'socialism'.
On the other hand too much talk of socialism is going to be mighty difficult to sustain. Socialism was officially ditched by Labour following the successful emergence of the Social Democrats from the failing labour party under Michael Foot. Brown himself was part of that process and published various texts (e.g. in 1983) about the success of the New Right and the need to ditch the left to create a realistic new agenda for 'equality'.
If the 'socialist' rhetoric is sustained for longer than merely the conference event, it will just revisit ancient arguments about raising taxes for nanny-state (cradle to grave) redistribution. More tax and ID cards too? That is just suicidal. And it evokes all the deadly weak points in the labour armour about totalitarianism and authoritarianism that caused Labour to ditch socialism in the first place.
I'm starting to think the 'populist' squeak about socialism was in fact a big mistake.
The speech itself was catastrophic at the outset and you could almost hear the rapid drumming of panicked labout hearts. Given the extraordinary levels of obesity of most of the delegates, she would have killed half of them if she'd carried on, but she managed to recover a bit.
Posted by: haud me back, glasgow on 5:27pm Sat 29 Mar 08
the scary thing is they think they are doing a good job!!
the scary thing is they think they are doing a good job!!
Posted by: JohnM, Perth on 6:00pm Sat 29 Mar 08
Douglas is right about the dour faces at Aviemore. Having just listened to Wendy's address, it's possible to imagine their pain.
If there were prizes and marks for delusion both Broonski and Wendy would be on 10 out of 10. Or is that 950 out of 1000.
Turmoil in the markets is from the USA, inflation has been reduced, SNP break their promises and want to Break up Britain. The opening joke fell flat. And there was little in Wendy's speech that you could think to yourself - not a bad idea at all. It was just empty rhetoric full of cliches and platonic wish-list items and already failed future aspirations. Watching this lot is like a time-warp on the History Channel.
Douglas is right about the dour faces at Aviemore. Having just listened to Wendy's address, it's possible to imagine their pain.
If there were prizes and marks for delusion both Broonski and Wendy would be on 10 out of 10. Or is that 950 out of 1000.
Turmoil in the markets is from the USA, inflation has been reduced, SNP break their promises and want to Break up Britain. The opening joke fell flat. And there was little in Wendy's speech that you could think to yourself - not a bad idea at all. It was just empty rhetoric full of cliches and platonic wish-list items and already failed future aspirations. Watching this lot is like a time-warp on the History Channel.
Posted by: Jimbo on 8:09pm Sat 29 Mar 08
[quote][bold]Bungle[/bold] wrote:
[quote][bold]Jimbo[/bold] wrote: [quote]Dream the impossible dream and, yes, Wendy Alexander can be next First Minister.[/quote] Only if they build her a new church. What a sycophant you are Fraser. [/quote] Read the article again Jimbo and less of the boorish insults. It's sarcasm.[/quote] As was my comment.
When did you first imagine you had the right to tell me what comments I can make and how long have you been having these hallucinations?
Bungle wrote:
Jimbo wrote: Dream the impossible dream and, yes, Wendy Alexander can be next First Minister.
Only if they build her a new church. What a sycophant you are Fraser.
Read the article again Jimbo and less of the boorish insults. It's sarcasm.
As was my comment.
When did you first imagine you had the right to tell me what comments I can make and how long have you been having these hallucinations?
Posted by: HenMcStoorie, Port William on 2:06am Sun 30 Mar 08
Would I be wrong in thinking that the reason we have people(like AM2), is because of 50 years of NULIEBOUR education. The people of Scotland have to be educated in thinking ahead, rather than going CAP IN HAND to Westmonster.Independ
ece is coming,and I hope in the years I have left, I will be able to stand tall, glass in hand,and tell the world SCOTLANDS JUST GOT ON!
Would I be wrong in thinking that the reason we have people(like AM2), is because of 50 years of NULIEBOUR education. The people of Scotland have to be educated in thinking ahead, rather than going CAP IN HAND to Westmonster.Independ
ece is coming,and I hope in the years I have left, I will be able to stand tall, glass in hand,and tell the world SCOTLANDS JUST GOT ON!
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