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   Web Issue 3203 July 19 2008   
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Brown attacks SNP plan to split Union
DOUGLAS FRASER, Scottish Political EditorMarch 29 2008
Gordon Brown
Gordon Brown

Gordon Brown set out a series of international challenges to the Scottish Labour conference, contrasting them with the SNP plans "to erect new barriers within this island when old barriers are coming down".

Speaking on the opening day of the party's conference in Aviemore, the Prime Minister set out to persuade Scots that the nation is not diminished by being part of the United Kingdom, but that Scots in his cabinet are able to make a difference on the world stage by being part of a bigger country. He warned of the danger of taking for granted the advantages of the four parts of the UK sticking together.

Mr Brown was speaking without notes for the first time in a major conference speech, following an example set by his Tory rival David Cameron at Conservative conferences.

The Prime Minister's speech did not directly address Scottish Labour's loss of power at Holyrood last year, what went wrong or what is needed next to make sure Labour plans for a recovery at future elections.

Those issues are more likely to feature in the speech today by Labour's Holyrood leader, Wendy Alexander. She received generous praise from the Prime Minister, who forecast she will be the next First Minister.

However, facing the first party conference since Labour lost its 50-year dominance of Scottish politics, his under-lying intent was to rally the faithful with a reminder to delegates of the value on which they can agree and campaign. There were lengthy pas-sages about the government's achievements and aims in tackling African poverty, which have proved effective in recent years in cementing Labour's support base when it hits trouble.

There was a reference to uncertainty and anxiety, but that was in a short passage about economic turbulence, intended to reassure people with the claim that the government has made the right decisions to cut inflation and invest in skills so that Britain is well placed to weather international financial storms.

The speech did not mention Alex Salmond by name, and there was only one mention of Conservatives. The Prime Minister took only a short time to join in the Labour attack on council cuts, which the party is seeking to pin on SNP ministers and councillors. But the main theme running through the speech was a sustained attack on nationalism, by contrasting independence with interdependence.

While speaking from memory, much of his global message lifted long sections from previous speeches to Labour conference. He returned to a familiar theme of the economic threat of China and India, raising their skill levels and training millions of graduates to compete for jobs.

This was in the context of Gordon Brown's treasured theme of children whose potential is not realised, tying together the message of creating opportunity for all with the necessity to train British people to compete in the global economy.

Contrasting this with the case for Scottish independence, Mr Brown asked: "What sense does it make, when there are the great challenges of the future, to erect barriers in this island when what we should be doing is uniting with other countries to make all the difference we could make?

"When some people say the Scots are diminished by having to participate in the United Kingdom, think of it the other way round," he said. With the focus on tackling international poverty and insecurity, he cited the work by Douglas Alexander, International Development Secretary, in the World Bank, Defence Secretary Des Browne in the United Nations security council, and Chancellor Alistair Darling in the International Monetary Fund.

"Here are Scots able to lead not just in Britain but the rest of the world. The union does not diminish our influence. The union enhances the influence of Scots people and Scots ideas and Scots values that can help change the world," he said.

Mr Brown told delegates: "Think of what we have achieved by working together and think whether it makes any sense that in a world where barriers are coming down everywhere, where people are recognising their interdependence, where people understand co-operation is the only way forward for the future, what sense does it make within these islands to create new barriers as the SNP would do, that distance Scotland from the rest of Britain, making it more difficult to trade, travel and play your full part as a citizen of the United Kingdom.

"That is the question for Scotland: do we move backwards to a 19th-century formula to nation states with borders, embassies and consulates, or do we move forward to the interdependent world of the 21st century where people co-operate and work together."

Responding to the speech, SNP Deputy Leader Nicola Sturgeon said: "Labour have learned nothing from their election defeat last year. Gordon Brown came out with the same old scaremongering nonsense that was wrong about the SNP and Scotland when we were in opposition, and is equally wrong now that we are in government".

Tory Shadow Scotland Secretary David Mundell described the speech as "a disjointed and incoherent contribution, perfectly suited to Labour's slump and slumber in the polls. Labour just doesn't get it".


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Posted by: Big Eye, Paisley on 12:12am Sat 29 Mar 08
The only barrier Scotland needs to break down to join the international community is Westminster.

Talk all you like, the games a bogey, you can stamp and shout all you like but it's time!!!!
Posted by: Jimbo on 12:13am Sat 29 Mar 08
that Scots in his cabinet are able to make a difference on the world stage ....


Yep. They've proved that in Iraq.
Posted by: redc;liffe62, brisbane on hols on 12:16am Sat 29 Mar 08
i listened to brown. walkinga round made him look human. however there was little sign he has learned anything and i agree with the comments above that scaremongering now works only in their base.

"10 out of 10" will have to do better today.

can labour admit they screwed up, say they want to start again and give us a chance to show us they are not the same old crap?
probably not, because i see no chnage in the personnel or the policies.

perhaps if a share of the oill and gas revenues, not 100% but a share, was agreed as being scottish then they might have a chance, but simply using it to pay for northern rock and the olympics kinda cheeses scots off.

hiding where the money goes, be it on a large scale involving oil or brown's own political expenses shows that the same old approach is being followed.

does wendy have to agree with everything gordon says on nuclear power and trident, that will be interesting if it is discussed. but that would mean having a scottish policy and we cannot have that can we?
Posted by: jonny bond, glasgow on 12:16am Sat 29 Mar 08
Its a shame he has not got a clue how to treat us fairly now that he needs to seem tough on the wasteful (12.5% extra on services of the expensive variety) scots to appeal to middle england where the next election will be won or lost. I forsee a lengthening of the slippery ones golden honeymoon in the media. Slippery salmond must be quivering to the tips of his fins.
Posted by: subrosa on 12:17am Sat 29 Mar 08
You're an apology for Scotland Mr Brown. Continuing to pedal the old rubbish about separation instead of calling it independence. You're just scared because of us getting our oil ... Nothing more, nothing less.
Posted by: Wullie, Aberdeen on 12:18am Sat 29 Mar 08
Do we move backwards to a 19th-century formula to nation states with borders, embassies and consulates, or do we move forward to the interdependent world of the 21st century where people co-operate and work together."

Nah, Broon.War mongering liebour justs invades countries .
Posted by: Wullie, Aberdeen on 12:24am Sat 29 Mar 08
Gordon Broon says
"When some people say the Scots are diminished by having to participate in the United Kingdom, he cited the work by Douglas Alexander, Defence Secretary Des Browne and Chancellor Alistair Darling.''

Aye, bit like the numbskulls from the Beano.
Posted by: george alexander, north lanarkshire on 12:27am Sat 29 Mar 08
.....Scots in his cabinet are able to make a difference on the world stage by being part of a bigger country.

OK, the 'barriers' drivel has been addressed on another thread.

The series of international challenges were nothing more than hollow words and sound bites. The plight of the poor around the globe depends not one jot on whether Westminster continues to control Scotland. Indeed it could be argued that an independent Scotland may in fact benefit many who might otherwise find themselves being 'liberated' by a once proud British Army who have been ordered to 'make a difference' by this Labour Government.

The quote above actually reveals much about Scottish Labour carreerists. It is all about strutting on a bigger stage, posturing and self agrandisement. It has absolutely nothing to do with what is the best way forward for Scotland.
Posted by: Steve A, Glasgow on 12:30am Sat 29 Mar 08
Gordon Broon would love the return of the cold war right about now!This would be the only thing that would justify his backward looking vision for Scotland!BROON YOU AND LIEBOURS VALUES ARE NOT MY VALUES!SO GET LOSSED!
Posted by: Big Eye, Paisley on 12:38am Sat 29 Mar 08
Finland, Norway, Denmark, Ireland, Estonia, Latvia,Lithuania must all be having emergency cabinet meetings having discovered they are operating in the nineteenth century.

I don't see any lights....do you?
Posted by: Tired of excuses, Galashiels on 12:43am Sat 29 Mar 08
He can attack the SNP till he is blue in the face, people voted for SNP because they were sick and tired of this kind of twaddle from Westminster.

People voted for a Nationalist party BECAUSE of his policies.

Isn't it time Labour got its head round the fact that Scotland actually wants Independance ?

Instead of sniveling about how they didn't mean to lose the election.

The party looking back here is Labour.
Posted by: Steve A, Glasgow on 12:44am Sat 29 Mar 08
Here's some advice for the bendy and unlike Mr Pia this advice is for free!BENDY do what your party did when it was in power HIDE and one other thing do yourself a favour and stay away from BBC interview's as you must lose about 950 voters with every word that spews from your big gub!
Posted by: Traquir, Alba on 12:49am Sat 29 Mar 08
I wonder if there are any Socialists at the conference
this year or is it only Unionistas ?
Posted by: Nil Desperandum, City of Glasgow on 12:53am Sat 29 Mar 08
The so called Scottish Labour Party has become the Anti SNP party. They have nothing whatsover to say for themselves, apart from cheap snidy remarks about the opposition. How anybody could even comtemplate voting for these people is beyond me. They seem to want to cling to England's coat tails and have absolutely no faith in their own people. The so called Scottish Labour Party make me want to sp..w.
Posted by: glaswegian, Glasgow on 12:53am Sat 29 Mar 08
"The Prime Minister set out to persuade Scots... that Scots in his cabinet are able to make a difference on the world stage by being part of a bigger country."

I couldn't give a monkeys where individual New Labour ministers were born or what accent they speak with. It's the influence the Scottish PEOPLE have over their own national affairs and their relations with the rest of the world that mattters.

It's patronising and insulting to suggest that Scotland as a nation benefits simply because a few Cabinet members can roll their Rs.
Posted by: Bungle, An ITV Storage Cupboard on 1:11am Sat 29 Mar 08
Quick. Warn Canada, Australia and New Zealand to go on war alert.

Gordon wants to put right their huge mistake of going backwards and leaving the imperial union.

What's that you say? We no longer have the military capability because Gordon's spent the money in Iraq?

Iraq? Didn't we leave there in 1923? I thought Gordon was against that sort of going backwards in time stuff?

I'm confused just what does he mean? Surely you aren't suggesting this was all about saving his ambitions of being UK PM rather than any 18th century constitutional construct that has gifted him this power and which is well past its sell-by-date with the end of Empire and the establishment of the EU?

Surely not our Gordon is so selfish to think about his own ego?
Posted by: Early Days, Glasgow on 1:14am Sat 29 Mar 08
The frustrating thing is that there will probably be a significant number of people out there who will buy this nonsense.

For a man who leads a party that has pursued an agenda of war, rearming, privatization and has overseen a gross erosion of civil liberties coupled with rampant sleaze to put forward a case of global social justice is an act of hypocrisy truly befitting the grand poobah of as morally destitute an organisation as New Labour.
Posted by: frank mcbride, lusitania on 1:15am Sat 29 Mar 08
Mr Brown, as an educated man, knows full well that Scots do not have to live in Scotland to have a profound influence in the world. However, he seems set on undermining Scotland andits people.

Scots, according to Mr Brown, can only be really effective within the Westminster system. How demeaning!

Mr Brown, for the last 3 centuries, Scots have had to leave Scotland to make their mark: when did the UK have a Scot as the 1st Minister? Was it before, or after, a Scots emigre became a 1st Minister of a country outwith?
What was the nationality of the founder of Mitsubishi?
What was the nationality of the greater number of the signatories of the American Declaration of Independence?

History is not everything, but it is a guide! Mr Brown you demean Scots by suggesting that being part of the UK is the best way for them to have influence.

Mr Brown, by being disingenuous with truth about the present, suggesting that Scotland's current problems are the makings of the current SG, you not only demean the SG but, more so yourself.
Nulab has had 10yrs to address the problems of Scotland; Nulab has failed: education, Health, social care, crime, the poor, the vulnerable, small business, medium business, pensioners, Tax payers.

All of the above have suffered at the hands of NuLab after 10yrs of office.

TO ALL NuLab APOLOGISTS.

Please reply. Your criticism is eagerly awaited.
Posted by: Bungle, An ITV Storage Cupboard on 1:20am Sat 29 Mar 08
"That is the question for Scotland: do we move backwards to a 19th-century formula to nation states with borders, embassies and consulates, or do we move forward to the interdependent world of the 21st century where people co-operate and work together."

So how come the UN membership is expanding instead of shrinking?

And wasn't it the 19th century where small nations were actually part of larger Empires?

Just who is living in the past when he tries to argue that absolute sovereignty at Westminster is interdependence? Perhaps someone can ask him to name one example of these 21st interdependent units that give all sovereignty to one instution?

Because that's the crux of the matter. Westminster is sovereign and he (or she) who leads the largest party has that sovereign power. And if he or she leads a compliant party he or she can do what they like.

This is all about Brown and not about progressive politics or social justice. This is about a man whose lies are becoming all the more apparent.

The man who broke his own golden rule and won't admit it. The man who said income tax is coming down when it is going up with the scrapping of the 10p rate. The man who compares CPI to RPI and ignores rising food prices.

A man who would give himeself 10 out of 10.
Posted by: Wullie, Aberdeen on 1:25am Sat 29 Mar 08
Gordon Broon reminds me of 1970s tv game show host Hughie Green with that catch phrase '' I really mean that most sincerely folks''. Its the smugness, pompousity, insincerity and phoneyness of Gordon Broon I cant stand.
Posted by: Traquir, Alba on 1:32am Sat 29 Mar 08
Wullie wrote:
Gordon Broon reminds me of 1970s tv game show host Hughie Green with that catch phrase '' I really mean that most sincerely folks''. Its the smugness, pompousity, insincerity and phoneyness of Gordon Broon I cant stand.
Aw, you just put me off Hughie Green :(
Posted by: Jock Politicaljunkie, Glasgow on 2:29am Sat 29 Mar 08
Backwards looking!! He's on drugs!

Gordon, it's not Scotland that's backwards looking - it's your UK.

Scotland wishes to interact with the other nations of the world as equals and trading partners.

Gordon, it's you that wishes to look down upon the world from your Nuclear Backed Seat on the UN Security Council; To have influence (and oil) at the end of a gun in Iraq; and to cling in desperation to the last vestages of Empire as Scotland slips through your fingers.

As for claiming smaller countries have no influence in the world - what makes him think the UK has any influence left when not riding on the coat-tails of the Americans??

Small countries like Norway (Nobel Peace Prize); Switzerland (Geneva Convention); Holland (International Court of Justice and the International Criminal Court); or Iceland (Cold War Summits) haven't done so bad. They have not been backwards looking and nor would Scotland.
Posted by: John F on 2:45am Sat 29 Mar 08
Jack Straw said (July 2006) - A broken-up United Kingdom would not be in the interests of Scotland, Wales or Northern Ireland, but especially not England. Our voting power in the European Union would diminish. We'd slip down in the world league GDP tables. Our case for staying in the G8 would diminish and there could easily be an assault on our permanent seat in the UN Security Council.

Notice Jack was concerned not about Scotland but about England (UK) if Scotand left the UK.
Posted by: Donald Anderson, glasgow on 2:51am Sat 29 Mar 08
Broon said in yesterday's interview in the Sun that the way was cleared for the Old Firm to join him in Ingerland.

Great - and take all your Labour voting numpties with you.
Posted by: clochoderic, renfrashur on 3:11am Sat 29 Mar 08
Just googled "brown aviemore" - the glorious leader came in a limp sixth in the list - the most popular was a link to a therapy clinic.
Posted by: pencildick, broons back yard on 4:30am Sat 29 Mar 08
Wullie wrote:
Gordon Broon reminds me of 1970s tv game show host Hughie Green with that catch phrase '' I really mean that most sincerely folks''. Its the smugness, pompousity, insincerity and phoneyness of Gordon Broon I cant stand.
I agree wullie
This man is living in a wee fantasy world of his own
Listening to his "I can save the world come and join me" speeches
this man seems to think he is Martin Luther King.

He is a phoney ,a clown , and an embarrassment to Scotland
He is a control freak who seems to think he is the chosen one that will unite his precious yookay and save the union.

Here is one Fifer who would rather cut his nuts off than vote for this man or his party.

Posted by: Traquir, Alba on 4:47am Sat 29 Mar 08
The Scotsman's best 'article' ever,
Have a look you won't be disappointed :)

tinyurl.com/23unqb

Posted by: Watson, Irvine on 5:19am Sat 29 Mar 08
Just think, this disillusioned fool is a Prime Minister.
Posted by: Mike, Edinburgh on 5:22am Sat 29 Mar 08
No need to add anything on this article. It has been covered very well already by Scottish Patriots, with very good points indeed.

Keep up the great work lads and lassies. Get the message out there about this being the perfect time for Scots to come out and do things the Scots Way, for our own Scottish People and Sovereign Nation.
Posted by: Scunnert, Travelling in Nihlon on 5:24am Sat 29 Mar 08
"There were lengthy pas-sages about the government's achievements and aims in tackling African poverty, which have proved effective in recent years in cementing Labour's support base when it hits trouble."

WTF?
Posted by: Dave, Livi Village on 7:03am Sat 29 Mar 08
Contrasting this with the case for Scottish independence, Mr Brown asked: "What sense does it make, when there are the great challenges of the future, to erect barriers in this island when what we should be doing is uniting with other countries to make all the difference we could make?

I flew to London a couple of weeks ago (first time in 30 years) in order to spend some saved-up pension on visiting a couple of big exhibitions.
I needed a passport to get on a plane at each end, and had to change my money from UK Sterling into BoE pounds.
Posted by: puskas, East Kilbride on 7:24am Sat 29 Mar 08
Mike wrote:
No need to add anything on this article. It has been covered very well already by Scottish Patriots, with very good points indeed. Keep up the great work lads and lassies. Get the message out there about this being the perfect time for Scots to come out and do things the Scots Way, for our own Scottish People and Sovereign Nation.
I have to agree Mike. Many good posts .

Our problem is that some will believe Broon and still vote for him and the unscrupulous gangsters that are part of NuLiebour.

We still have to work hard to educate some of our fellow Scots that Independence is the correct road without a doubt.

Same old claptrap from Broon and I'm sure 10/10 to follow. LOL
Posted by: David Alexander on 7:28am Sat 29 Mar 08
Any normal person can see that what Gordon Brown says is complete and utter, unadulterated drivel and yet the political editor of supposedly Scotland's most prestigious daily newspaper spits it out verbatim with nary a word of criticism even embellishing it with the gibberish about African poverty and cementing Labour's support base.

Douglas Fraser - not fit for purpose.
Posted by: Olive Morrison, EDINBURGH on 7:34am Sat 29 Mar 08
Would'nt it be wonderful if The Herald were to publish ,on a special page, all of the above comments for all Scotland to see! Maybe even GB would read them, t'would warm his black heart.
Posted by: David Alexander on 7:34am Sat 29 Mar 08
Barriers?

Does he mean:

Passports to travel to England?
ID cards?
Fingerprinting?
Retina checks?
Profiling?
Loyalty tests?

Under the SNP we would have none of these.

Come on Labour supporters, why do you put up with this?

Your granny would be proud.
Posted by: David Alexander on 7:41am Sat 29 Mar 08
Olive

He may read them anyway but they will be dismissed as the poisoned ramblings of the cybergnat vermin.

I'm sure that some of the Labour delegates must be tuning in on their wireless connections from Aviemore but there dosn't seem to be much of a fight coming out of them.
Posted by: David Alexander on 7:54am Sat 29 Mar 08
Re my comment at 07:28

I just read Douglas Fraser's An ol’ time medley of speeches article and noted that it displayed a touch of reality, using irony and sarcasm.

While it is hardly the stuff of serious politics it did show, at least, that he is not just an airbrush artiste.

It would help, Douglas if your headlines dissected Gordon Brown, not just your tucked away sketches.

If you are stuck for ideas then I'm sure the readers could help you out.
Posted by: pehman, sussex on 8:28am Sat 29 Mar 08
More and more it is the case that the only ones looking backwards are slab, inspecting the trail of destruction they left in their wake.

The backwardness continued with maggies negative drivel more doom and gloom ----- did he tell the faithfull ANYTHING he didn't say during the election campaign 10 months ago ?

And as for this being a slab conference, all I keep hearing is SNP this SNP that and SNP some more

So Scotland get with the slab message get with the SNP
Posted by: McSomeone, Scotland on 8:30am Sat 29 Mar 08
Not bad coming from a Scot running and English centric government in the south. Strange how independence never harmed any other country in the world but would be disastrous for Scotland. I notice Ireland is doing very well for itself as are most of England's ex colonies, well the ones that won't let England interfere in their affairs.

Or maybe what he's really saying is that it will be a disaster for the labour party and it's chances of ever being elected in an English Parliament.
Posted by: Bruce, Ayrshire on 8:51am Sat 29 Mar 08
I really think Gordon has done it this time. I do give him ten out of ten though - for sheer brass neck and a form of honesty. His idea of successful Scots on the world stage might have been accepted a couple of generations ago (I say MIGHT have been) but now? I really think we have advanced a bit to understand that basking in the glory of our countrymen being ministers of a UK government is about as useful to Scotland as watching our indigenous industries and HQs going sarf.

Gordon, we don't want that kind of glory, those days are over. The 'we' factor is not about your cabinet bestriding the planet. 'We' means us, the people, building our confidence for our own country and countryfolks, about building a new Scotland, one that is not arrogant but confident, one that takes a deep pride in its direction and place in the world, not a mis-placed hubris riding on the coat-tails of a discredited and out of date imperialist machine.

The message from you, Gordon, was crystal clear - vote for us so we can play with the big boys - 'we' meaning yourselves, the political elite, the power-hungry. Perhaps that turns you on, perhaps some find that tantalising. I don't. I find it nauseating and even more nauseating is the idea that anyone in Scotland wishes to go all starry-eyed over your own plans for world domination and will gleefully mark the cross next to your party's name to ensure your egos are massaged and your idea of successful Scots takes precedence over a successful Scotland. Aye right. Mibbees at wan time, no noo. Your brand of success means London-centred. It means ignore Scotland. It means self-centred trough snuffling. It means glory for you and your ilk and crumbs to the voters.

Well take your striding stagecraft to London and stay there, let us build a new Scotland with the kind of Scots who truly wish success for their people as much as themselves. Your type belong in the past along with Victoria's Empire.

Posted by: Politically-incorrec t Man, Glasgow on 8:56am Sat 29 Mar 08
Broon gets to look more like Larry " seems like a nice boy" Grayson with every photo.
Devolution, well "Slack Alice, shut that door"
Posted by: highlander45, Highlands on 8:56am Sat 29 Mar 08
As the hootsman has taken away my right to abuse gordon broon
I must say I am deeply worried that this deluded fool has the final say on all matters reserved.Just imagine he actually has his finger on the nuclear trigger.
be afraid, be very afraid!!!
Posted by: David Alexander on 9:11am Sat 29 Mar 08
Larry Grayson?

Check out the picture at the bottom of the page, as he struts the stage!

http://tinyurl.com/3
49wuh
Posted by: John Edgar, Cupar on 9:33am Sat 29 Mar 08
The Brown comments as reported sound like before. Dull, jaded and predictable! The man rambles on and links sound bytes to fill out his usual westminsterite jabber! Brown and SCOTLAB are in denial, "dumfoonert" and like all jaded and confused Scot-Labour westminsterites they fall back on the old "saws" which they have been trumpeting for the last 50 years! Alas the SNP government has shown in its first year what a non-westminsterite party can achieve in Scotland with limited devolved powers. Full powers to the Scottish Parliament will enable all Scots to participate fully in national and international affairs like other small nations in Europe who have secured independence from "unions" Norway from Sweden in 1907, Eire from the UK, ther Baltic states and former East European countries from the Soviet Union! Brown represents the dull UK past, a fully independent Scotland and Scottish Parliament represents the future. Move over Scotlab-westminsteri
tes, you are the past!
Posted by: Rodmac, Glasgow, Scotland on 9:35am Sat 29 Mar 08
What a tedious litany of negativity and nonsense . "There was a reference to uncertainty and anxiety" but not one word about the uncertainty and anxiety that must be felt by the people of Iraq who, even as he spoke, were being bombed by American planes and who must be uncertain if they will still be alive to listen to his poodles' speeches about being the peoples' party. How dare he strut about admiring the UK's standing in the world when they are directly responsible for the death and devastation of thousands.

You would think that Highland Mighty, PTBS etc would have access to internet facilities in their Aviemore Hotel rooms - they can't all be George Foulkes, can they?
Posted by: Jimmie, Black Isle on 9:45am Sat 29 Mar 08
If I were the PM, I would not be holding up the examples of Messrs Alexander, Browne and Darling as achieving Scots. I would have thought that the reverse was true. Look at their major "achievements" in bungling the May Elections, the situation in Basra and Northern Rock. Nothing to be proud of there. They bring shame on Scotland

As for the comment by Wendy Alexander that she is a "perfect 10 out of 10", am I the only one to think that she is holding herself up to further ridicule? Is this not a massive political own goal? And this came after the PM's prediction that she would be the next First Minitser. Is his judgment that catastrophically poor?
Posted by: bairn, falkirk on 9:48am Sat 29 Mar 08

quote
build barriers
quote


we first have to plug the drains to stop the oil flow and to stop a back up of the sewage that was evident yesterday

kermit sitting and waiting for the fly to land is a sight.Today in the
newspapers she is compared to the French first lady in elegance of dress and oratory and lost 10 - 0 if this is the best lab can produce is ita surprise they lost the election must try harder
Posted by: highlander45, Highlands on 9:51am Sat 29 Mar 08
Independance & the SNP are causing major problems in this country of ours! for gordon brown
Posted by: jomellon, Lodève, France on 9:57am Sat 29 Mar 08
where people are recognising their interdependence

...you have to be independent to be interdependent!

Being part of Britain means hiding values behind Little Englands attempt at importance as the poodle of the US.

Broon lost his own values years ago, certainly at the latest when he sat beside Blair "hear, hear"ing as the NuLabour government took Britain into the criminal, murderous adventure in Iraq to preserve BP and Shells right with Exxon to plunder the Middle East.

What´s Dougie Alexander doing for 3rd World development? Teaching dictators how to rig elections?
Posted by: Melanthios on 10:09am Sat 29 Mar 08
"Now on my scale there ain't no tens, you know
Nine is about as far as any chick can go
So I flashed her a smile, but she didn't even look at me
So for brains and good judgement, I'd give her a three."

Bobby Bare
Posted by: Melanthios on 10:10am Sat 29 Mar 08
"That wine you're pourin' might be fine to you
But I'm used to fine champagne, I give it a two
It's hard to tell what your flashin' smile is worth
I give it a six, you could use some dental work."

Bobby Bare
Posted by: art1000, Dunfermline on 10:11am Sat 29 Mar 08
Bruce Ayrshire on Broon -
Well take your striding stagecraft to London and stay there, let us build a new Scotland with the kind of Scots who truly wish success for their people as much as themselves. Your type belong in the past along with Victoria's Empire.


brilliant post.
Posted by: Melanthios on 10:11am Sat 29 Mar 08
"Yeah! No matter how good they look at first
There's flaws in all of them
That's why on a scale of ten to one, friend
There ain't no ten. "

Bobby Bare
Posted by: daveymac, web on 10:12am Sat 29 Mar 08
Gordon Brown: British South of the border, suddenly a Scot on the North side.

I think overall it was a good speech for those who like perpetual subservience:
You know, the partnership that we are not equal partners in. Gives them some sense of achievement.
Throw out our revenues and industries such as fishing and you can put a BritScot in ministerial positions in the UK.
You know where our Southern Labour neighbours gave compensation to farmers in England, while refusing the same for the North, backed by all the Labour MSPs in the Scottish parliament voting against compensation.

Are Scottish farmers not hard working enough for you Wendy?

Lastly, Brown also said that it was backward looking for Scotland to have things like borders and Embassies. Amazing! Last time I looked every modern state and country had Embassies, border control, import and export rules etc.

New Labour are out of touch, out of power in their home territory and soon to be out of their jobs.
Posted by: Los Angeles, Edinburgh on 10:24am Sat 29 Mar 08

Bruce Ayrshire
Well take your striding stagecraft to London and stay there
It wasn't that good. He kept losing his spotlight and walking into shadow. How ironic.
Posted by: Los Angeles, Edinburgh on 10:25am Sat 29 Mar 08

Westminster send a Scotsman to do their dirty work, and it was another failed Scotsman who negotiated the bloody Treaty. Same ole', same ole'.
Posted by: Saul Tyre, Germany on 10:27am Sat 29 Mar 08
Over here Scotland doesn't exist (except as a potential holiday destination or as a football team) and neither does Britain. Everything is England. Suits Gordon Brown to a T. Pity for him it's all going to change.
Posted by: Saul Tyre, Germany on 10:33am Sat 29 Mar 08
"Here are Scots able to lead not just in Britain but the rest of the world. The union does not diminish our influence. The union enhances the influence of Scots people and Scots ideas and Scots values that can help change the world," he said.

No barriers? Would he have said the above in front of an English audience?
Posted by: Saul Tyre, Germany on 10:36am Sat 29 Mar 08
'Mr Brown was speaking without notes for the first time in a major conference speech, following an example set by his Tory rival David Cameron at Conservative conferences.'

What a pathetic, incompetent person Brown is.

Posted by: Saul Tyre, Germany on 10:42am Sat 29 Mar 08
"...what sense does it make within these islands to create new barriers as the SNP would do, that distance Scotland from the rest of Britain, making it more difficult to trade, travel and play your full part as a citizen of the United Kingdom ."

I would say it would not be difficult for us to play our full part as citizens of the United Kingdom. It would be impossible. We would be Scots - full stop.
Posted by: Saul Tyre, Germany on 10:47am Sat 29 Mar 08
"That is the question for Scotland: do we move backwards to a 19th-century formula to nation states with borders, embassies and consulates,..."

Does Brown never read newspapers or watch the news? Norway, Ireland, Slovenia, Slovakia, Latvia, Lithuania, Estonia, Ukraine etc, etc , etc. Did that all happen in the 19th century? Brown is as thick as Bush. At least.
Posted by: AyrshireScot, South Ayrshire on 10:52am Sat 29 Mar 08
"Gordon Brown set out a series of international challenges to the Scottish Labour conference, contrasting them with the SNP plans.."

Sadly killing 800,000 civilians in Iraq, Trident WMD and cooperation with rendition/ torture was not on his list to compare with the SNP's plans.
Posted by: Toophingers, Bellshill. on 10:53am Sat 29 Mar 08
It was sheer political blasphemy for the present self-seeking,money grubbing Scottish Labour Party to associate itself in any way with Keir Hardie as it did in Fridaty's party political broadcast.
The following by an anonymous contributor to a political comments debate says it better than I can.
If you pass a certain kirkyard
On a cold and silent night
And you hear a constant whirring sound
Don't let it give you fright
Tis only poor Keir Hardie
A'spinning six feet down
At the thought of all his principles
Now trampled on by Brown.
(And by both Blairs, Prescott, Wilson, Kinnock et al).
Posted by: jock the kipper, ny usa on 11:06am Sat 29 Mar 08
Oi, where's AM2 and the other auld lags? No web service in Aviemore? Scotlands premier (sic) resort? Anyone remember the Wolf Bar? There was less pish spoken in there on a Saturday night than at this con.
Posted by: ex labour voter, glasgow on 11:06am Sat 29 Mar 08
All ways a frown with Gormless Brown.
Hey Wendy where,s the e mails?
Posted by: JABRE, FEARN on 11:07am Sat 29 Mar 08
Here we go again, an unelected Prime Minister canvassing upport for a 10 out of 10 lawbreaker as Scotland's First Minister I rest mycase.
Incidentally , all this hoo haa re the cuts in Aberdeen have absolutely nothing to do with S.N.P. policy, the Audit Commission have been warning the Labour incompetents for t