The honeymoon is far from over as Salmond’s stock keeps rising
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| ON THE UP: Alex Salmond is out-polling Wendy Alexander by a colossal margin, but support for independence, at 23%, is unusually low. Picture: Kirsty Anderson |
Douglas Fraser: "What does the poll mean for independence?"
The popularity of the
SNP in an opinion poll published yesterday is evidence that Alex Salmond's honeymoon with Scottish voters is growing ever more passionate.
The Labour and Liberal Democrats ejected from office last May are both going backwards, with the UK picture showing a post-Budget slump for Labour who are trailing the Tories by 16 points.
That is the widest margin for 21 years, though with little sign of that boosting Scottish Conservative fortunes.
This rare evidence of Scottish public opinion shows Salmond out-polling Wendy Alexander by a colossal margin. Their favourability ratings, taking the negatives from the positives, put him 53 points in the black, while the Labour leader is 22 points in deficit. She clearly trails the First Minister even among Labour voters.
This comes less than two weeks before the first Scottish Labour party conference since it lost power, with Ms Alexander's own six months as leader facing criticism along with significant doubts about her future.
Much of the public perception of her leadership results from media reporting of her campaign fundraising, which broke the law, so perhaps the surprise is that as many as 30% of people think she is doing a good job as leader. It will not help that new allegations were published yesterday, saying her Holyrood allowances were used to support her leadership bid. Such stories have led 40% of those polled to be less likely to support Labour, and a minority think she should quit.
However, the MRUK poll carries a warning to the SNP. Support for independence, at 23%, is unusually low. Only one other poll has found it that low in recent years. With 45% preferring the devolved parliament to continue but with more powers, it shows the SNP could be proving so adept at running a devolved administration that it undermines its own case for an independent one.
In the coming weeks ministers are to highlight
the difference they are making in an advertising campaign starting this week, drawing attention to the falling cost of prescriptions, the council tax freeze and reduced business rates.
Another clear message from the poll is that much of the SNP's strength is in its leader, whose favourability ratings - 70% say he is
doing a good job, with 17% saying the opposite - are far ahead of support for his party. When pollsters asked those who do not support independence what might persuade them to do so in future, Mr Salmond's persuasive skills were one of the two top factors.
While a hypothetical polling question from part of a sample should be taken with a bigger pinch of salt than usual, another 29%, said they may change their minds if Scotland's share of public spending is cut by the Treasury.
Within that group, 24% of people could be persuaded to support independence by the election of a Tory government at Westminster, while 20% could be persuaded by the re-election of Labour. That shows people are already open to persuasion about the case for independence, and whatever the outcome of the next election, due by spring 2010, more people will be persuadable.
It also shows the Conservative Party may be shaking off its electoral disadvantage in Scotland. It has been assumed the return of a Tory prime minister, backed by a large English vote, would drive more Scots to support autonomy.
But it seems the prospect of David Cameron in No 10 Downing Street would not have much more impact on Scottish public opinion than Gordon Brown's re-election.
Scottish Tories should worry, though. The Scottish data, collected from 1028 people nearly three weeks ago, shows their support down slightly on a poor result at last May's election, leaving a stark contrast between Annabel Goldie's fortunes and those of David Cameron.
A separate poll, published yesterday and researched by YouGov since last Wednesday's Budget, put Tories throughout Britain on 43% while Labour is on 27%. Despite being a fresh face as LibDem leader, Nick Clegg is failing to turn around his party's polling fortunes, with only 16% support.
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Posted by: Oscar on 12:03am Mon 17 Mar 08
If it's possible to type through seething teeth, Douglas Fraser has just demonstrated it.
Now how is Simon Pia going to spin this into a positive WENDY story?
If it's possible to type through seething teeth, Douglas Fraser has just demonstrated it.
Now how is Simon Pia going to spin this into a positive WENDY story?
Posted by: Alex Porter, Madrid on 12:15am Mon 17 Mar 08
Is this a honeymoon? Or are we just talking about the consolidation of the SNPs vote? I can't see where Labour can go from here. The chasm between their MPs and MSPs gets wider and Brown won't be for federalising the party. When Brown loses the election and the bump him off there'll be an English party leader. A Tory government spoiling for a fight and the SNP most trusted to stick up for Scotland the following Holyrood elections are going to be very fertile terriroty for the SNP and for a referendum on independence!
Time for the SNP to turn the screw.
Is this a honeymoon? Or are we just talking about the consolidation of the SNPs vote? I can't see where Labour can go from here. The chasm between their MPs and MSPs gets wider and Brown won't be for federalising the party. When Brown loses the election and the bump him off there'll be an English party leader. A Tory government spoiling for a fight and the SNP most trusted to stick up for Scotland the following Holyrood elections are going to be very fertile terriroty for the SNP and for a referendum on independence!
Time for the SNP to turn the screw.
Posted by: Dave, Away on 12:20am Mon 17 Mar 08
"With 45% preferring the devolved parliament to continue but with more powers, it shows the SNP could be proving so adept at running a devolved administration that it undermines its own case for an independent one."
Some relationships break up with a bang and some just grow apart....really in the end, if one is a devolved group collecting one's own taxes and regulating one's own government....a rose by any other name...?
"With 45% preferring the devolved parliament to continue but with more powers, it shows the SNP could be proving so adept at running a devolved administration that it undermines its own case for an independent one."
Some relationships break up with a bang and some just grow apart....really in the end, if one is a devolved group collecting one's own taxes and regulating one's own government....a rose by any other name...?
Posted by: Los Angeles, Edinburgh on 12:22am Mon 17 Mar 08
Salmond and his team have opened our eyes to what Westminster withheld from us. We know now what is ours by right.
[bold]He has shown us we [italic]can[/italic] be empowered.[/bold]
Scottish politics will never be the same again now the people have that knowledge once upon a time hidden from them.
Salmond and his team have opened our eyes to what Westminster withheld from us. We know now what is ours by right.
He has shown us we can be empowered.
Scottish politics will never be the same again now the people have that knowledge once upon a time hidden from them.
Posted by: Dave, Away on 12:27am Mon 17 Mar 08
[quote][bold]Oscar[/bold] wrote:
If it's possible to type through seething teeth, Douglas Fraser has just demonstrated it. Now how is Simon Pia going to spin this into a positive WENDY story?[/quote] Don't know what he will say, if I was him I'd say:
"The low independence numbers indicate that the People of Scotland are not voting *for* Alex Salmond and the SNP, but *against* Westminister's policies of late. Wendy represents the only *real* way for Scotland to have an impact on it's own future in a cooperative way with Westminister over the long term (unless one wants to vote Thatcher...sorry, I mean Conservative). Get Real, Get Wendy. Remember, most *real* Scots don't want what Smiling Alex does."
(note: I don't think the above is true, but it's what Pia ought to say if he wants some improvement in his Glorious Leader's status....If he pulls it off I would think he could write his own ticket... :-) )
WENDY FOR QUEEN!
Oscar wrote:
If it's possible to type through seething teeth, Douglas Fraser has just demonstrated it. Now how is Simon Pia going to spin this into a positive WENDY story?
Don't know what he will say, if I was him I'd say:
"The low independence numbers indicate that the People of Scotland are not voting *for* Alex Salmond and the SNP, but *against* Westminister's policies of late. Wendy represents the only *real* way for Scotland to have an impact on it's own future in a cooperative way with Westminister over the long term (unless one wants to vote Thatcher...sorry, I mean Conservative). Get Real, Get Wendy. Remember, most *real* Scots don't want what Smiling Alex does."
(note: I don't think the above is true, but it's what Pia ought to say if he wants some improvement in his Glorious Leader's status....If he pulls it off I would think he could write his own ticket... :-) )
WENDY FOR QUEEN!
Posted by: subrosa on 12:31am Mon 17 Mar 08
LA we have to make it that way and [bold]be[/bold] empowered. Surely people will never wish to return to the 'keep them poor and illiterate' policies of the labour party in the last 50 years. The SNP can't afford to be complacent though - they must continue in this way to achieve a country good enough to stand with the best.
LA we have to make it that way and
be empowered. Surely people will never wish to return to the 'keep them poor and illiterate' policies of the labour party in the last 50 years. The SNP can't afford to be complacent though - they must continue in this way to achieve a country good enough to stand with the best.
Posted by: Dave, Away on 12:32am Mon 17 Mar 08
[quote][bold]Los Angeles[/bold] wrote:
Salmond and his team have opened our eyes to what Westminster withheld from us. We know now what is ours by right. [bold]He has shown us we [italic]can[/italic] be empowered.[/bold] Scottish politics will never be the same again now the people have that knowledge once upon a time hidden from them. [/quote] Realistically, LA not without a (with guns and armies) fight. Independence without resources, no troubles. All London has to do is convince the Islands to stay with them and good-bye oil revenues (there *is* precedence...when Quebec wanted it's own way in the North the Inuit said no way and the USA backed out....and there are very, very few Inuit....)
Don't get me wrong I like very much that AS has *a* vision of a future for Scotland.....
As I've said before, except for the Scottish Christian Party (to give credit where it's due), he's the *only* one offering any forward thinking....and not having a (flexible) proactive plan is a bad way to govern...
Los Angeles wrote:
Salmond and his team have opened our eyes to what Westminster withheld from us. We know now what is ours by right. He has shown us we can be empowered. Scottish politics will never be the same again now the people have that knowledge once upon a time hidden from them.
Realistically, LA not without a (with guns and armies) fight. Independence without resources, no troubles. All London has to do is convince the Islands to stay with them and good-bye oil revenues (there *is* precedence...when Quebec wanted it's own way in the North the Inuit said no way and the USA backed out....and there are very, very few Inuit....)
Don't get me wrong I like very much that AS has *a* vision of a future for Scotland.....
As I've said before, except for the Scottish Christian Party (to give credit where it's due), he's the *only* one offering any forward thinking....and not having a (flexible) proactive plan is a bad way to govern...
Posted by: ratzo on 12:32am Mon 17 Mar 08
the Yougov poll extrapolates the following for the next poll at Westminster:
37% SNP
30% Labour
18% Conservative
11% Libdem
3% Green
the Yougov poll extrapolates the following for the next poll at Westminster:
37% SNP
30% Labour
18% Conservative
11% Libdem
3% Green
Posted by: David, Scotland on 12:35am Mon 17 Mar 08
Alex Salmond is but one of an excellent team leading the SNP cause. I particularly like the energy of Nicola Sturgeon and the sagacity of John Swinney but my favourite is Mike Russell the smooth talking Englishman who gives the lie to the SNP being an anti-English party. ( I say "smooth talking " but I also like the good sense he portrays. ) [bold]There is so much strength and depth to the SNP movement.[/bold]
Alex Salmond is but one of an excellent team leading the SNP cause. I particularly like the energy of Nicola Sturgeon and the sagacity of John Swinney but my favourite is Mike Russell the smooth talking Englishman who gives the lie to the SNP being an anti-English party. ( I say "smooth talking " but I also like the good sense he portrays. )
There is so much strength and depth to the SNP movement. Posted by: doonhamer on 1:00am Mon 17 Mar 08
Both the Holyrood and Westminster polls show that the SNP would win the majority of Scottish constituency seats. The SNP has come a long way in the last few years and one by one more Labour and LibDem constituency seats continue to fall.
The loss of Labour control at the Local level is an even greater threat to the party. Without the perks or punishments of Labour numpties, the party can no longer command the masses they once had.
Both the Holyrood and Westminster polls show that the SNP would win the majority of Scottish constituency seats. The SNP has come a long way in the last few years and one by one more Labour and LibDem constituency seats continue to fall.
The loss of Labour control at the Local level is an even greater threat to the party. Without the perks or punishments of Labour numpties, the party can no longer command the masses they once had.
Posted by: Scunnert, Travelling in Nihlon on 1:11am Mon 17 Mar 08
Dave, Away on 12:32am today writes:
[quote]Independence without resources, no troubles. All London has to do is convince the Islands to stay with them and good-bye oil revenues (there *is* precedence...when Quebec wanted it's own way in the North the Inuit said no way and the USA backed out....and there are very, very few Inuit....)[/quote]
Naw Dave - Quebec has went through a number of boundary changes over the years and there remain some disputes - especially with Newfoundland re: boundaries and borders.
tinyurl.com/5yhdf
However, Quebec lost out on independence by a very slim margin in their referendum - 50.58% "No" to 49.42% "Yes". Jacques Parizeau, the premier of the province at the time, said he lost the referendum due to Bay Street Anglo money and "the ethnics".
The Canadian government also spent a ton of money ( illegally ) fighting against Quebec independence.
tinyurl.com/2mkpph
Dave, Away on 12:32am today writes:
Independence without resources, no troubles. All London has to do is convince the Islands to stay with them and good-bye oil revenues (there *is* precedence...when Quebec wanted it's own way in the North the Inuit said no way and the USA backed out....and there are very, very few Inuit....)
Naw Dave - Quebec has went through a number of boundary changes over the years and there remain some disputes - especially with Newfoundland re: boundaries and borders.
tinyurl.com/5yhdf
However, Quebec lost out on independence by a very slim margin in their referendum - 50.58% "No" to 49.42% "Yes". Jacques Parizeau, the premier of the province at the time, said he lost the referendum due to Bay Street Anglo money and "the ethnics".
The Canadian government also spent a ton of money ( illegally ) fighting against Quebec independence.
tinyurl.com/2mkpph
Posted by: mike, London on 1:14am Mon 17 Mar 08
I think Wendy should call for an election,while she is doing so well.
I think Wendy should call for an election,while she is doing so well.
Posted by: Wardog, Buckie on 3:06am Mon 17 Mar 08
Will Labour's core vote evaporate nearer 2010/11 when the full details of how the majority of scot's below the average national income will benefit under LIT are being debated in Holyrood?
How will these floating Independence supporters vote following Broon's continued stance on 'britishness' and thwarting the Scottish Govenrment at every opportunity.....
How will these floating Independence supporters vote following Labour, Tories & Liberals voting down the opportunity for a referendum on our constitutional future and with a new government (most likely a hung parliament) in Westminster?
People have seen a can do attitude and want more.
Labour & the Liberals simply can't deliver and have been proven not to be able to. We'll still have the fools who will continue to vote for anything in red rosette though or those that will listen to the vile scaremongering fear politics of the Labour Party.
These should be & I belive are being targetted by the SNP.
[bold]Bring it on.[/bold]
Will Labour's core vote evaporate nearer 2010/11 when the full details of how the majority of scot's below the average national income will benefit under LIT are being debated in Holyrood?
How will these floating Independence supporters vote following Broon's continued stance on 'britishness' and thwarting the Scottish Govenrment at every opportunity.....
How will these floating Independence supporters vote following Labour, Tories & Liberals voting down the opportunity for a referendum on our constitutional future and with a new government (most likely a hung parliament) in Westminster?
People have seen a can do attitude and want more.
Labour & the Liberals simply can't deliver and have been proven not to be able to. We'll still have the fools who will continue to vote for anything in red rosette though or those that will listen to the vile scaremongering fear politics of the Labour Party.
These should be & I belive are being targetted by the SNP.
Bring it on.
Posted by: Archie, Argyll on 3:39am Mon 17 Mar 08
"That shows people are already open to persuasion about the case for independence, and whatever the outcome of the next election, due by spring 2010, more people will be persuadable"
does that include YOU Douglas Fraser?
I heard the Queen was giving Broon an earbashing on his anti-Scottish crusade. I missed reading about it though.
Does anyone know any details?
"That shows people are already open to persuasion about the case for independence, and whatever the outcome of the next election, due by spring 2010, more people will be persuadable"
does that include YOU Douglas Fraser?
I heard the Queen was giving Broon an earbashing on his anti-Scottish crusade. I missed reading about it though.
Does anyone know any details?
Posted by: jonny bond, glasgow on 3:52am Mon 17 Mar 08
I thought salmon were crashing in scottish streams thanks to overfishing but it seems they are flourishing. Oh sorry I read the headline wrong its salmond thats flourishing that is only because the traditional party of scotland is led by a liar and cheat called wendy the woman and thats why she is still in a job. Her job has been till now and will forever be to be the labour poonanee equalisation. This scheme insits on promoting poonany into top jobs which they have little to no ability to do. I dont remember a single thing she said since she admitted she financed her bid badly which wasn't her fault of course. Compared to her I am rising steadily up the rankings of eligible candidates for office if only I had a poonanny you could all vote for me and I'd let you see it. I have certainly had more comments in the press than her although like her not all favourable.
I thought salmon were crashing in scottish streams thanks to overfishing but it seems they are flourishing. Oh sorry I read the headline wrong its salmond thats flourishing that is only because the traditional party of scotland is led by a liar and cheat called wendy the woman and thats why she is still in a job. Her job has been till now and will forever be to be the labour poonanee equalisation. This scheme insits on promoting poonany into top jobs which they have little to no ability to do. I dont remember a single thing she said since she admitted she financed her bid badly which wasn't her fault of course. Compared to her I am rising steadily up the rankings of eligible candidates for office if only I had a poonanny you could all vote for me and I'd let you see it. I have certainly had more comments in the press than her although like her not all favourable.
Posted by: daveymac, web on 5:24am Mon 17 Mar 08
These polls are nothing but bad news for Labour and Wendy 'Crim' Alexander in particular.
WHile the SNP are doing devolution well and dev MAX is an unknown quantity, then Dev MAx appears to be what most Scots want.
However ask other Questions about control over Trident, going to war, Fiscal autonomy, Energy control etc and most Scaots will say YES in a second.
A referendum is firmly on the cards,. The will is there.
I wonder what people will vote for when the only thing in the More Powers Box is Election Responsibility and more Tax raising powers, plus a few nothings?
Labour and Westminster wants to limit the 'parish council' to a parish council with a few new bells.
These polls are nothing but bad news for Labour and Wendy 'Crim' Alexander in particular.
WHile the SNP are doing devolution well and dev MAX is an unknown quantity, then Dev MAx appears to be what most Scots want.
However ask other Questions about control over Trident, going to war, Fiscal autonomy, Energy control etc and most Scaots will say YES in a second.
A referendum is firmly on the cards,. The will is there.
I wonder what people will vote for when the only thing in the More Powers Box is Election Responsibility and more Tax raising powers, plus a few nothings?
Labour and Westminster wants to limit the 'parish council' to a parish council with a few new bells.
Posted by: Celtic Lion, Roar on 5:47am Mon 17 Mar 08
I had a honeymoon once, I went on my own.
[quote]Another clear message from the poll is that much of the SNP's strength is in its leader ...[/quote]
Well at least New Labour don't have that problem, north or south of the border.
I had a honeymoon once, I went on my own.
Another clear message from the poll is that much of the SNP's strength is in its leader ...
Well at least New Labour don't have that problem, north or south of the border.
Posted by: Angus Smith on 6:24am Mon 17 Mar 08
Wardog'
Why dose this poll suggest such great support for SNP on one hand
then the next say 21% for Independence.
Utter Bullsh*t ,I can just imagine the question on Independence!
Wardog'
Why dose this poll suggest such great support for SNP on one hand
then the next say 21% for Independence.
Utter Bullsh*t ,I can just imagine the question on Independence!
Posted by: Donald Anderson, glasgow on 6:32am Mon 17 Mar 08
What honeymoon, certainly not with the British Media in Scotland? It is amazing that the SNP did so well despite that handicap.
As for Wendy's predicament being down to her financial lies, that is only partly so. She belongs to a Unionist tribe that knee jerks itself into opposing any progress for Scotland just for the sake of it and out of sheer hatred and prejudice and will never be fit for Office in a changing Scotland, now that progress is on the agenda at last.
Alex Salmond is not popular for his good looks or fashion sense, but for his commons sense, ability and courage to stand up for Scotland against the establishment and its lickspittles in the Media in an occupied Scotland.
What honeymoon, certainly not with the British Media in Scotland? It is amazing that the SNP did so well despite that handicap.
As for Wendy's predicament being down to her financial lies, that is only partly so. She belongs to a Unionist tribe that knee jerks itself into opposing any progress for Scotland just for the sake of it and out of sheer hatred and prejudice and will never be fit for Office in a changing Scotland, now that progress is on the agenda at last.
Alex Salmond is not popular for his good looks or fashion sense, but for his commons sense, ability and courage to stand up for Scotland against the establishment and its lickspittles in the Media in an occupied Scotland.
Posted by: Grandpaw, Glasgow on 6:44am Mon 17 Mar 08
Up to the time of devolution, we ( the Scottish people) had to do what we were told by Westminster.[bold]We have had virtually no say whatsoever in the running of our country[/bold] . Since devolution, and more especially since the SNP took over, we have seen that we no longer have to be at the mercy of Big Brother England.We are now seeing how we can take hold of, and control our own destiny.
Now fast forward to 2010 at the latest. The UK will be run by the Tories...of that there is no doubt whatsoever, as Labour are well and truly finished. So, now with our greater powers in Scotland, and seeing how for the first time in 300 years, we have a man in charge who cares about Scotland, and isn't a poodle of Westminster,can you imagine the scene? A UK Prime Minister who is middle England, upper class, Eton educated, will now be telling us what to do !!!
We ( the Scots) with our increasing powers and enlightenment will not stand for this.Now fast forward to 2011 for the Holyrood elections....the SNP will absolutely "walk it". Now it is 2012 and the SNP are giving the Scottish people a referendum on independence. ...and if " Call me Dave" ( love a hoodie ) is still in power at Westminster, then I would think that independence is virtually a certainty.
Up to the time of devolution, we ( the Scottish people) had to do what we were told by Westminster.
We have had virtually no say whatsoever in the running of our country . Since devolution, and more especially since the SNP took over, we have seen that we no longer have to be at the mercy of Big Brother England.We are now seeing how we can take hold of, and control our own destiny.
Now fast forward to 2010 at the latest. The UK will be run by the Tories...of that there is no doubt whatsoever, as Labour are well and truly finished. So, now with our greater powers in Scotland, and seeing how for the first time in 300 years, we have a man in charge who cares about Scotland, and isn't a poodle of Westminster,can you imagine the scene? A UK Prime Minister who is middle England, upper class, Eton educated, will now be telling us what to do !!!
We ( the Scots) with our increasing powers and enlightenment will not stand for this.Now fast forward to 2011 for the Holyrood elections....the SNP will absolutely "walk it". Now it is 2012 and the SNP are giving the Scottish people a referendum on independence. ...and if " Call me Dave" ( love a hoodie ) is still in power at Westminster, then I would think that independence is virtually a certainty.
Posted by: Rab The Ranter, Ayrshire on 7:00am Mon 17 Mar 08
[quote][bold]Alex Porter[/bold] wrote:
Is this a honeymoon? Or are we just talking about the consolidation of the SNPs vote? I can't see where Labour can go from here. The chasm between their MPs and MSPs gets wider and Brown won't be for federalising the party. When Brown loses the election and the bump him off there'll be an English party leader. A Tory government spoiling for a fight and the SNP most trusted to stick up for Scotland the following Holyrood elections are going to be very fertile terriroty for the SNP and for a referendum on independence! Time for the SNP to turn the screw. [/quote] The scandal (well one of the scandals) is we haven't had a referendum.
[bold]Its time[/bold]
Alex Porter wrote:
Is this a honeymoon? Or are we just talking about the consolidation of the SNPs vote? I can't see where Labour can go from here. The chasm between their MPs and MSPs gets wider and Brown won't be for federalising the party. When Brown loses the election and the bump him off there'll be an English party leader. A Tory government spoiling for a fight and the SNP most trusted to stick up for Scotland the following Holyrood elections are going to be very fertile terriroty for the SNP and for a referendum on independence! Time for the SNP to turn the screw.
The scandal (well one of the scandals) is we haven't had a referendum.
Its time Posted by: Rab The Ranter, Ayrshire on 7:03am Mon 17 Mar 08
[quote][bold]Angus Smith[/bold] wrote:
Wardog' Why dose this poll suggest such great support for SNP on one hand then the next say 21% for Independence. Utter Bullsh*t ,I can just imagine the question on Independence![/quote] Stuff polls. It is US who should decide, not polititicians, not polls, but the sovereign will of The Scots.
Angus Smith wrote:
Wardog' Why dose this poll suggest such great support for SNP on one hand then the next say 21% for Independence. Utter Bullsh*t ,I can just imagine the question on Independence!
Stuff polls. It is US who should decide, not polititicians, not polls, but the sovereign will of The Scots.
Posted by: Karin, glasgae. on 7:26am Mon 17 Mar 08
did anyone notice that douglas didnt mention the percentage of the snp vote in scotland from the poll which was 37 percent. 7 points higher than labour.
did anyone notice that douglas didnt mention the percentage of the snp vote in scotland from the poll which was 37 percent. 7 points higher than labour.
Posted by: Karin, glasgae. on 7:34am Mon 17 Mar 08
oy douglas no blog about this?
now why is that douglas?
because your a labour party hack maybe.
oy douglas no blog about this?
now why is that douglas?
because your a labour party hack maybe.
Posted by: Oscar on 7:56am Mon 17 Mar 08
Tsk Karin, don't pick on the poor feller he's got lots of plates spinning and his shoelaces are untied.
Tsk Karin, don't pick on the poor feller he's got lots of plates spinning and his shoelaces are untied.
Posted by: JABRE, FEARN on 8:15am Mon 17 Mar 08
Douglas, if you mean the honeymoon between the S,N,P, and the English Broadcasting Corporation, then you should be talking about divorce.
Wark Campbell Brewster, Fraser, Macdonnell
et al.
Douglas, if you mean the honeymoon between the S,N,P, and the English Broadcasting Corporation, then you should be talking about divorce.
Wark Campbell Brewster, Fraser, Macdonnell
et al.
Posted by: JABRE, FEARN on 8:18am Mon 17 Mar 08
Douglas, if you mean the honeymoon between the S,N,P, and the English Broadcasting Corporation, then you should be talking about divorce.
Wark Campbell Brewster, Fraser, Macdonnell
et al.
Douglas, if you mean the honeymoon between the S,N,P, and the English Broadcasting Corporation, then you should be talking about divorce.
Wark Campbell Brewster, Fraser, Macdonnell
et al.
Posted by: spagan, heisker, scotland on 8:40am Mon 17 Mar 08
Poll finding can't be much of a surprise outside Douglas's Dinner Party Circle! Can Peter and Nicola not invite him around for a nice meal? I'm sure that he and Isobel would see that SNP folk don't have two heads! Bigger brains certainly but ..................
Labour continues to sink fast!
Somebody said that Wendy's mouth had got that way as a result of an operation that had gone tragically wrong?
Apparently, the surgeon had real difficulty getiing her foot out of her mouth!
Slainte Mhor
Poll finding can't be much of a surprise outside Douglas's Dinner Party Circle! Can Peter and Nicola not invite him around for a nice meal? I'm sure that he and Isobel would see that SNP folk don't have two heads! Bigger brains certainly but ..................
Labour continues to sink fast!
Somebody said that Wendy's mouth had got that way as a result of an operation that had gone tragically wrong?
Apparently, the surgeon had real difficulty getiing her foot out of her mouth!
Slainte Mhor
Posted by: Mike, Edinburgh on 8:40am Mon 17 Mar 08
Leave Douglas alone you lot. He does a lot of the work for us, everytime he writes an article.
Well to be quite honest Douglas has had a few brighter moments in the last year. It really depends on what he is drinking at the time. Douglas has actually written some very good articles, and personally I think he is a pretty good Journo compared to those on the Hootsman. At least Douglas has a spine and writes the stories he wants to write unlike the spineless arsus holis Journo's who do what their Tax Haven owners demand. Any chance, any of them will return to pay their share of LIT. Aye I didnae think so.
As I have said before, the real wealthy Scots who made good out of Scotland wont necassarily leave their homeland. Look at Tom Hunter, he is very commited to helping Scottish Youth to get more opportunities to enter the business world. This new bunch of business minded Scots will bring more wealth and opportunities that will benefit the Scottish People. Commonsense and balance will be needed in a newly Independant Scotland. Tom Hunter has already commented on the Wendy saga, and labours thieving. He gave them a hundred thousand quid, but wont be doing it in the future. He is in favour of the welfare of Scots, not the promotion of a London Controlled New Labour Numptie Party, who main goal is to screw enough out of the public purse to make sure they are alright in their old age. Gods Curse to Them All.
Leave Douglas alone you lot. He does a lot of the work for us, everytime he writes an article.
Well to be quite honest Douglas has had a few brighter moments in the last year. It really depends on what he is drinking at the time. Douglas has actually written some very good articles, and personally I think he is a pretty good Journo compared to those on the Hootsman. At least Douglas has a spine and writes the stories he wants to write unlike the spineless arsus holis Journo's who do what their Tax Haven owners demand. Any chance, any of them will return to pay their share of LIT. Aye I didnae think so.
As I have said before, the real wealthy Scots who made good out of Scotland wont necassarily leave their homeland. Look at Tom Hunter, he is very commited to helping Scottish Youth to get more opportunities to enter the business world. This new bunch of business minded Scots will bring more wealth and opportunities that will benefit the Scottish People. Commonsense and balance will be needed in a newly Independant Scotland. Tom Hunter has already commented on the Wendy saga, and labours thieving. He gave them a hundred thousand quid, but wont be doing it in the future. He is in favour of the welfare of Scots, not the promotion of a London Controlled New Labour Numptie Party, who main goal is to screw enough out of the public purse to make sure they are alright in their old age. Gods Curse to Them All.
Posted by: Strathdee, West Lothian on 8:46am Mon 17 Mar 08
Much of the public perception of her leadership results from media reporting of her campaign fundraising, which broke the law,[quote]quote[/quote]
Pat yersels on the back, why don't you? Whilst breaking electoral law certainly didn't help (a nice change in acknowledgement from apparently being 'cleared'), Bendy's public image crisis goes deeper than this.
The fact is that not only do the public believe she is untrustworthy, but she comes across as being thoroughly dislikeable. She has fallen out with spin doctor after spin doctor, and she displays a terrible arrogance that does not sit well with Scots. The only person that seems to value her apparent and well hidden 'intelligence' is the arrogant wee witch herself.
Much of the public perception of her leadership results from media reporting of her campaign fundraising, which broke the law,
quote
Pat yersels on the back, why don't you? Whilst breaking electoral law certainly didn't help (a nice change in acknowledgement from apparently being 'cleared'), Bendy's public image crisis goes deeper than this.
The fact is that not only do the public believe she is untrustworthy, but she comes across as being thoroughly dislikeable. She has fallen out with spin doctor after spin doctor, and she displays a terrible arrogance that does not sit well with Scots. The only person that seems to value her apparent and well hidden 'intelligence' is the arrogant wee witch herself.
Posted by: Globaltraveller, Scotland on 8:47am Mon 17 Mar 08
Support for independence is not "unusually low" when one puts in a number of unionist options - ie devolved status quo, devolved more powers etc and only one option for independence. A pure and simple union versus independence question is the only true indicators of [italic]how[/italic] people really [italic]feel[/italic] about independence. It'd be a bit like running poll with support for the union measured up against support for an independent Scotland as part of NATO [bold]or[/bold] support for an independent Scotland outside of NATO.
Support for independence is not "unusually low" when one puts in a number of unionist options - ie devolved status quo, devolved more powers etc and only one option for independence. A pure and simple union versus independence question is the only true indicators of
how people really
feel about independence. It'd be a bit like running poll with support for the union measured up against support for an independent Scotland as part of NATO
or support for an independent Scotland outside of NATO.
Posted by: Luigi, Aberdeen on 8:50am Mon 17 Mar 08
Congratulations to Alec Salmond for the longest honeymoon in history - the lack of effective oppostion may be problematic in the long-term, however.
I was dismayed at only 23% in favour of independence. I know much depends on the precise question asked, but I am still amazed how the independence question produces such widely fluctuating figures - anything between 20-60% which is a huge range.
Other polls indicate that most people in Scotland 'expect' independence eventually, even if they do not currently support it. The impression I get is that, even though most people are fed up with the union, being canny scots, we still prefer to postpone the difficult decision - still in the "interested, but let's wait and see" mode?
Congratulations to Alec Salmond for the longest honeymoon in history - the lack of effective oppostion may be problematic in the long-term, however.
I was dismayed at only 23% in favour of independence. I know much depends on the precise question asked, but I am still amazed how the independence question produces such widely fluctuating figures - anything between 20-60% which is a huge range.
Other polls indicate that most people in Scotland 'expect' independence eventually, even if they do not currently support it. The impression I get is that, even though most people are fed up with the union, being canny scots, we still prefer to postpone the difficult decision - still in the "interested, but let's wait and see" mode?
Posted by: Strathdee, West Lothian on 8:53am Mon 17 Mar 08
[quote]With 45% preferring the devolved parliament to continue but with more powers, it shows the SNP could be proving so adept at running a devolved administration that it undermines its own case for an independent one[/quote]
Yep, I thought about this too! But McWhiter's article yesterday shows that salmond could do even better if Gordy wasn't trying to tie his hands with a reduced budget and taxing the Whisky industry unfairly. Brown is playing a dangerous game trying to derail the SNP's progress. The electorate could decide that our fortunes could improve further if our government were unhindered by Westminster.
With 45% preferring the devolved parliament to continue but with more powers, it shows the SNP could be proving so adept at running a devolved administration that it undermines its own case for an independent one
Yep, I thought about this too! But McWhiter's article yesterday shows that salmond could do even better if Gordy wasn't trying to tie his hands with a reduced budget and taxing the Whisky industry unfairly. Brown is playing a dangerous game trying to derail the SNP's progress. The electorate could decide that our fortunes could improve further if our government were unhindered by Westminster.
Posted by: Wardog, Buckie on 8:58am Mon 17 Mar 08
[quote][bold]Angus Smith[/bold] wrote:
Wardog'
Why dose this poll suggest such great support for SNP on one hand
then the next say 21% for Independence.
Utter Bullsh*t ,I can just imagine the question on Independence![/quote]
Can't speak for the pollsters or those polled but.....
Could be that 'independence' was as usual ill defined...... many people still view it as a cultural 'separatiuon' from the UK which it wouldn't necessarily be..... it's only the scaremongers in Labour's rank that continue to talk about it in this way - every other party views more major powers as a good thing and refute the 'separation' tag of Labour's FEAR campaign......
When offered specific additional powers most Scots agree,they can see that taking responsibility and using that power for Scotland's benefit is a worthwhile thing, Labour are bereft of the concept.....
One of these pollsters should carry out a poll to see exactly which additional powers would be welcomed.....
I wouldn't be surprised that when tallied up, you'd have all but independence, possibly except defence.....but as posters above have noted, the majority are against retaining trident and son of Trident.... which presents an anomaly for Scottish Public opinion in that case.
The next major polls should simply ask which of these would you like to see transferred to the Scottish Parliament.
[bold]Full Fiscal Autonomy
Energy
Social Welfare
Home Affairs
Trade & Industry
Transport
Professional Regulation
Employment
Full Health Portfolio
Media & Culture / Broadcasting
Defence (Trident)
[/bold]
[italic]If it looks like a duck, quacks like a duck....then it's a.......[/italic]
What Labour have totally miscalculated, is the SNP's gradualist wing, which Alec, Jon & Nicola are all converts to......
Independence will be a process not an event, with gorwing confidence and a proven track record in running the country well, the SNP are well on the way to disproving[bold] Labour's FEAR Politics.[/bold] ...
[bold]People want aspiration and positive ideas.[/bold]
Instead, labour are acting like the Major Government in it's last throws, scratching at policies desperately, anything to hold on to power and what exactly has broon doen? - He's essentially mortgaged the country for his wasteful spending plans....
New Undersized Schools rather than Modernisation
A National Minimum Wage that is a Joke v Cost of Living
Inflation disguised by House Prices & Stealth Taxes
A Widening gap between the Wealthy & the poor
Abolition of the 10% Tax Bracket (unbelievable for real Socialists)
Illegal Wars with an unfolding human tragedy that will be with us for decades..... and which despite is meaning very little, Labour in Scotland couldn't even bring itself to vote against at Holyrood....absolute
ly shameful......
Shame on Labour for not having the guts to talk about greater home rule, all it shows is that Broon is happy to use Scotland for his own political ambitions.... once upon time huge sections of Labour were advocating greater powers that the current compromised devolution settlement..... after aviemore....you might just see that crack reopen in Labour....
Angus Smith wrote:
Wardog'
Why dose this poll suggest such great support for SNP on one hand
then the next say 21% for Independence.
Utter Bullsh*t ,I can just imagine the question on Independence!
Can't speak for the pollsters or those polled but.....
Could be that 'independence' was as usual ill defined...... many people still view it as a cultural 'separatiuon' from the UK which it wouldn't necessarily be..... it's only the scaremongers in Labour's rank that continue to talk about it in this way - every other party views more major powers as a good thing and refute the 'separation' tag of Labour's FEAR campaign......
When offered specific additional powers most Scots agree,they can see that taking responsibility and using that power for Scotland's benefit is a worthwhile thing, Labour are bereft of the concept.....
One of these pollsters should carry out a poll to see exactly which additional powers would be welcomed.....
I wouldn't be surprised that when tallied up, you'd have all but independence, possibly except defence.....but as posters above have noted, the majority are against retaining trident and son of Trident.... which presents an anomaly for Scottish Public opinion in that case.
The next major polls should simply ask which of these would you like to see transferred to the Scottish Parliament.
Full Fiscal Autonomy
Energy
Social Welfare
Home Affairs
Trade & Industry
Transport
Professional Regulation
Employment
Full Health Portfolio
Media & Culture / Broadcasting
Defence (Trident)
If it looks like a duck, quacks like a duck....then it's a.......
What Labour have totally miscalculated, is the SNP's gradualist wing, which Alec, Jon & Nicola are all converts to......
Independence will be a process not an event, with gorwing confidence and a proven track record in running the country well, the SNP are well on the way to disproving
Labour's FEAR Politics. ...
People want aspiration and positive ideas.
Instead, labour are acting like the Major Government in it's last throws, scratching at policies desperately, anything to hold on to power and what exactly has broon doen? - He's essentially mortgaged the country for his wasteful spending plans....
New Undersized Schools rather than Modernisation
A National Minimum Wage that is a Joke v Cost of Living
Inflation disguised by House Prices & Stealth Taxes
A Widening gap between the Wealthy & the poor
Abolition of the 10% Tax Bracket (unbelievable for real Socialists)
Illegal Wars with an unfolding human tragedy that will be with us for decades..... and which despite is meaning very little, Labour in Scotland couldn't even bring itself to vote against at Holyrood....absolute
ly shameful......
Shame on Labour for not having the guts to talk about greater home rule, all it shows is that Broon is happy to use Scotland for his own political ambitions.... once upon time huge sections of Labour were advocating greater powers that the current compromised devolution settlement..... after aviemore....you might just see that crack reopen in Labour....
Posted by: Wardog, Buckie on 9:16am Mon 17 Mar 08
[quote]However, the MRUK poll carries a warning to the SNP. Support for independence, at 23%, is unusually low. Only one other poll has found it that low in recent years. With 45% preferring the devolved parliament to continue but with more powers, it shows the SNP could be proving so adept at running a devolved administration that it undermines its own case for an independent one.[/quote]
[bold]Or[/bold]
The Gradualist strategy of the SNP to win additional powers before full independence is working a treat.
Growing confidence of how these additional powers, especially fiscal and economic powers will work in practice will engender greater confidence that will eventually lead to the big question.........
The real independence question is how people want Scotland to be represented at the global forums and in turn how that would affect defence & diplomacy.
[bold]
Do you want to be part of NATO?
Do you want Scotland to have a distinct voice at the EU?
Do you want Scotland to have a distinct voice at the UN?
Do you want Scotland to have a diplomatic mission in other nations?
Do you want Scotland to have a peacekeeping defence force?[/bold]
The question will be, can Wendy's (sorry Gordon's) Constitutional Review cater for the range of powers that people have an appetite for.... no chance.... there isn't a hope in hell that Gordon Brown will allow true economic levers to be moved to Scotland or control over Energy (Oil Revenue) or Corporation Tax/VAT.
This will be his downfall, the Liberals will split from his commission around 2009-10 prior to the general election citing Brown's interference in the process as obstructive, the scottish public will vote accordingly, seeing Brown as selling Scotland donw the swannie.
New or Hung UK Parliament.....Scot'
s are then denied a referendum on Independence & Additional Powers (Alec will add the second question in the referendum) but the others parties won't support it.
2011 Voting Time
SNP go on a platform of if winning, having a mandate to negotiate greatly enhanced additional powers for the Scottish Parliament..... with a view that Full Independence could be considered in 2015.......
The only snag is for the SNp and it's more fundamentalist wing, they need to accept that independence won't happen overnight and that a gradual creep of powers is the right strategy to achieve the end goal.
This poll should be telling them that.
However, the MRUK poll carries a warning to the SNP. Support for independence, at 23%, is unusually low. Only one other poll has found it that low in recent years. With 45% preferring the devolved parliament to continue but with more powers, it shows the SNP could be proving so adept at running a devolved administration that it undermines its own case for an independent one.
Or
The Gradualist strategy of the SNP to win additional powers before full independence is working a treat.
Growing confidence of how these additional powers, especially fiscal and economic powers will work in practice will engender greater confidence that will eventually lead to the big question.........
The real independence question is how people want Scotland to be represented at the global forums and in turn how that would affect defence & diplomacy.
Do you want to be part of NATO?
Do you want Scotland to have a distinct voice at the EU?
Do you want Scotland to have a distinct voice at the UN?
Do you want Scotland to have a diplomatic mission in other nations?
Do you want Scotland to have a peacekeeping defence force?
The question will be, can Wendy's (sorry Gordon's) Constitutional Review cater for the range of powers that people have an appetite for.... no chance.... there isn't a hope in hell that Gordon Brown will allow true economic levers to be moved to Scotland or control over Energy (Oil Revenue) or Corporation Tax/VAT.
This will be his downfall, the Liberals will split from his commission around 2009-10 prior to the general election citing Brown's interference in the process as obstructive, the scottish public will vote accordingly, seeing Brown as selling Scotland donw the swannie.
New or Hung UK Parliament.....Scot'
s are then denied a referendum on Independence & Additional Powers (Alec will add the second question in the referendum) but the others parties won't support it.
2011 Voting Time
SNP go on a platform of if winning, having a mandate to negotiate greatly enhanced additional powers for the Scottish Parliament..... with a view that Full Independence could be considered in 2015.......
The only snag is for the SNp and it's more fundamentalist wing, they need to accept that independence won't happen overnight and that a gradual creep of powers is the right strategy to achieve the end goal.
This poll should be telling them that.
Posted by: Celtic Lion, Roar on 9:18am Mon 17 Mar 08
[quote][bold]Wardog[/bold] wrote:
What Labour have totally miscalculated, is the SNP's gradualist wing, which Alec, Jon & Nicola are all converts to......[/quote]
I've been wondering how best to say that, and you've gone and said it for me. It's an important piece of detail the media have been ignoring.
Wardog wrote:
What Labour have totally miscalculated, is the SNP's gradualist wing, which Alec, Jon & Nicola are all converts to......
I've been wondering how best to say that, and you've gone and said it for me. It's an important piece of detail the media have been ignoring.
Posted by: sid the sceptic, renfrewshire on 9:28am Mon 17 Mar 08
morning all: luigi I am one of these canny scots who think all we have had is years of waste from labour and before we can even contimplate independance the SNP must prove that they can govern our country effectivley . i am obviously not in the minority as all the polls show high percentage will vote SNP low percentage want independance now. as i say we had to give another party a chance to show they could a better job than labour (not very difficult)and I couldn't see many options but the jury is still out. PS a government with no credable opposition is dangerous and indeed not acceptable .we are in danger of going from one extreme to another
morning all: luigi I am one of these canny scots who think all we have had is years of waste from labour and before we can even contimplate independance the SNP must prove that they can govern our country effectivley . i am obviously not in the minority as all the polls show high percentage will vote SNP low percentage want independance now. as i say we had to give another party a chance to show they could a better job than labour (not very difficult)and I couldn't see many options but the jury is still out. PS a government with no credable opposition is dangerous and indeed not acceptable .we are in danger of going from one extreme to another
Posted by: Rodmac, Glasgow, Scotland on 9:38am Mon 17 Mar 08
It will be interesting what the polls will show when the UK government digs it's heels in and refuses the council tax rebate and then goes on to deny the Scottish Government any more autonomy on such things as those listed by Wardog at 8.28. On top of that they seem committed to the retention of Trident or son of Trident and the imposition of either nuclear plants or storage of nuclear waste.
It will be interesting what the polls will show when the UK government digs it's heels in and refuses the council tax rebate and then goes on to deny the Scottish Government any more autonomy on such things as those listed by Wardog at 8.28. On top of that they seem committed to the retention of Trident or son of Trident and the imposition of either nuclear plants or storage of nuclear waste.
Posted by: Duns Scotus, The Borders on 9:38am Mon 17 Mar 08
[quote][bold]Alex Porter[/bold] wrote:
Is this a honeymoon? Or are we just talking about the consolidation of the SNPs vote? I can't see where Labour can go from here. The chasm between their MPs and MSPs gets wider and Brown won't be for federalising the party. When Brown loses the election and the bump him off there'll be an English party leader. A Tory government spoiling for a fight and the SNP most trusted to stick up for Scotland the following Holyrood elections are going to be very fertile terriroty for the SNP and for a referendum on independence! Time for the SNP to turn the screw. [/quote] [bold]Is this a honeymoon?[/bold] - This is a most perceptive comment and deserves wider attention. While bloggers, posters and cybernats have had a lot of fun at the expense of Alexander, Baillie, Foulkes, et al, the [bold]Scottish Government had a very brief honeymoon way back last summer.[/bold]
Since then they have got on with making the fresh, sincere marriage of the SNP and the Scottish people a happy union as opposed to the burnt-out 18th c. husk that is the "British" Union.
Now let's move relentlessly to independence before the "7-year itch" sets in!
Alex Porter wrote:
Is this a honeymoon? Or are we just talking about the consolidation of the SNPs vote? I can't see where Labour can go from here. The chasm between their MPs and MSPs gets wider and Brown won't be for federalising the party. When Brown loses the election and the bump him off there'll be an English party leader. A Tory government spoiling for a fight and the SNP most trusted to stick up for Scotland the following Holyrood elections are going to be very fertile terriroty for the SNP and for a referendum on independence! Time for the SNP to turn the screw.
Is this a honeymoon? - This is a most perceptive comment and deserves wider attention. While bloggers, posters and cybernats have had a lot of fun at the expense of Alexander, Baillie, Foulkes, et al, the
Scottish Government had a very brief honeymoon way back last summer.
Since then they have got on with making the fresh, sincere marriage of the SNP and the Scottish people a happy union as opposed to the burnt-out 18th c. husk that is the "British" Union.
Now let's move relentlessly to independence before the "7-year itch" sets in!
Posted by: Lachlan, Stirling on 9:40am Mon 17 Mar 08
The ineffectual leaders of the majority Scots Unionists parties need a good kick up their rear ends for ever allowing the minority Nationalists to gain a platform in the Scottish Parliament which was created for devolved Unionist Government!
In a democracy, every section of society is allowed by right to put forward it's views but are the Scots Unionist parties simply going to roll over and let the Nationalists have the field?
As research has found, the Scots Electorate did not vote for the SNP to bring about separation from the UK State but to allow it the same opportunity in government as the disappointing Unionist parties.
However, IF the SNP success continues the Unionists better get used to co-habitation with the Nationalists? This has already been demonstrated by the hapless Tories who have supported some of the Nationalists policies, and in years to come Scots Labour might well have to rely on the SNP for coalition support as presently exists in Wales?
The ineffectual leaders of the majority Scots Unionists parties need a good kick up their rear ends for ever allowing the minority Nationalists to gain a platform in the Scottish Parliament which was created for devolved Unionist Government!
In a democracy, every section of society is allowed by right to put forward it's views but are the Scots Unionist parties simply going to roll over and let the Nationalists have the field?
As research has found, the Scots Electorate did not vote for the SNP to bring about separation from the UK State but to allow it the same opportunity in government as the disappointing Unionist parties.
However, IF the SNP success continues the Unionists better get used to co-habitation with the Nationalists? This has already been demonstrated by the hapless Tories who have supported some of the Nationalists policies, and in years to come Scots Labour might well have to rely on the SNP for coalition support as presently exists in Wales?
Posted by: Grassy Knollington on 9:58am Mon 17 Mar 08
Honeymoon. Interesting choice of word and beloved of Unionists eager for it to be over swiftly.
Reminds me of the old joke ( look away now if you're a sensitive sort)
...as much fun as a dose of the clap your honeymoon.
The more perceptive amongst you will already have worked out that if the honeymoon refers to the SNP's tenure to date, the dose of the clap is the media coverage they've "enjoyed".
Nice picture of Eck by the way ,in a twilight zone/ Stephen King sort of way!
Honeymoon. Interesting choice of word and beloved of Unionists eager for it to be over swiftly.
Reminds me of the old joke ( look away now if you're a sensitive sort)
...as much fun as a dose of the clap your honeymoon.
The more perceptive amongst you will already have worked out that if the honeymoon refers to the SNP's tenure to date, the dose of the clap is the media coverage they've "enjoyed".
Nice picture of Eck by the way ,in a twilight zone/ Stephen King sort of way!
Posted by: Stuart Black, Glasgow, for a wee while. on 9:59am Mon 17 Mar 08
[quote]seething teeth[/quote]
What a great image, LOL!
seething teeth
What a great image, LOL!
Posted by: McSomeone, Scotland on 10:00am Mon 17 Mar 08
Ah the beauty of a hung parliament, where the politicians have to keep the voters happy rather than their paymasters.
I can see why westminster doesn't like it though anymore than our own unionists, it's the kind of thing that might give the prols south of the border the wrong idea. Especially as they slowly start to realise that both main parties are completely bereft of ideas and that the voters are secondary to the wishes of the multinationals
Ah the beauty of a hung parliament, where the politicians have to keep the voters happy rather than their paymasters.
I can see why westminster doesn't like it though anymore than our own unionists, it's the kind of thing that might give the prols south of the border the wrong idea. Especially as they slowly start to realise that both main parties are completely bereft of ideas and that the voters are secondary to the wishes of the multinationals
Posted by: Lobeydosser, Woodlands Road on 10:01am Mon 17 Mar 08
It does not surprise me that there is this gap in the opinion polls. Apart from Wendy's election campaign cash fiasco, Wendy is leading a party that is in its death rattle - (Scottish) Labour, as we know it, should hopefully cease come the next election. Eck and the SNP are doing a great job for their first time in government.
However if Scotland is to have an effective opposition, and I am assuming it will be (Scottish)Labour after the next election, it needs to regroup and change direction. Labour it is still holding on to old beliefs that are out dated; the work the UK labour party did up to the 1960s was needed in the UK and it was good work, but now they are isolating people with issues like ID cards, oaths to the queen, London quashing good ideas, etc. As a previous post said; (Scottish) Labour are like the last John Major Government scambling about for populist policies which are out of touch with people. Many of its Labour's MSPs should not be at Holyrood - I am underwhelmed at the quality of some of them - votes for donkeys with red rosettes springs to mind.
Wendy shuld get out of that job or she should take the bull by the horns and reform her party; I'd have more respect for her if she tried to reform them first.
It does not surprise me that there is this gap in the opinion polls. Apart from Wendy's election campaign cash fiasco, Wendy is leading a party that is in its death rattle - (Scottish) Labour, as we know it, should hopefully cease come the next election. Eck and the SNP are doing a great job for their first time in government.
However if Scotland is to have an effective opposition, and I am assuming it will be (Scottish)Labour after the next election, it needs to regroup and change direction. Labour it is still holding on to old beliefs that are out dated; the work the UK labour party did up to the 1960s was needed in the UK and it was good work, but now they are isolating people with issues like ID cards, oaths to the queen, London quashing good ideas, etc. As a previous post said; (Scottish) Labour are like the last John Major Government scambling about for populist policies which are out of touch with people. Many of its Labour's MSPs should not be at Holyrood - I am underwhelmed at the quality of some of them - votes for donkeys with red rosettes springs to mind.
Wendy shuld get out of that job or she should take the bull by the horns and reform her party; I'd have more respect for her if she tried to reform them first.
Posted by: Truthseeker, Lanarkshire on 10:04am Mon 17 Mar 08
[quote][bold]Dave[/bold] wrote:
[quote][bold]Los Angeles[/bold] wrote: Salmond and his team have opened our eyes to what Westminster withheld from us. We know now what is ours by right. [bold]He has shown us we [italic]can[/italic] be empowered.[/bold] Scottish politics will never be the same again now the people have that knowledge once upon a time hidden from them. [/quote] Realistically, LA not without a (with guns and armies) fight. Independence without resources, no troubles. All London has to do is convince the Islands to stay with them and good-bye oil revenues (there *is* precedence...when Quebec wanted it's own way in the North the Inuit said no way and the USA backed out....and there are very, very few Inuit....) Don't get me wrong I like very much that AS has *a* vision of a future for Scotland..... As I've said before, except for the Scottish Christian Party (to give credit where it's due), he's the *only* one offering any forward thinking....and not having a (flexible) proactive plan is a bad way to govern...[/quote] Nice to see [bold]The Scottish Christian Party[/bold] being given some credit. Thanks, Dave. It is the case that the SCP polled more votes than any of the other parties that did not have members in the last Scottish Parliament - no mean feat for a party that is still (in party political terms) in its infancy. It also had a number of radical policies - some of which heve been put forward by others since last May!!
My personal vision would be for a 2011 (or earlier!) Holyrood election that resulted in the SNP being, clearly, the largest party, and the SCP coming in a reasonable second - maybe ten seats behind the SNP.
It would be good to see a party that, while overtly Christian, is [bold]NOT[/bold] sectarian, being allowed to play a major part in returning principle and integrity to Scottish politics, at every level.
Meanwhile, I wish AS and the SNP well. While the SCP exists, they won't get my personal vote, but they have certainly shown both backbone and vision since they took over the reins of Scottish Government - something of which the previous administrations never seemed to be capable!
Dave wrote:
Los Angeles wrote: Salmond and his team have opened our eyes to what Westminster withheld from us. We know now what is ours by right. He has shown us we can be empowered. Scottish politics will never be the same again now the people have that knowledge once upon a time hidden from them.
Realistically, LA not without a (with guns and armies) fight. Independence without resources, no troubles. All London has to do is convince the Islands to stay with them and good-bye oil revenues (there *is* precedence...when Quebec wanted it's own way in the North the Inuit said no way and the USA backed out....and there are very, very few Inuit....) Don't get me wrong I like very much that AS has *a* vision of a future for Scotland..... As I've said before, except for the Scottish Christian Party (to give credit where it's due), he's the *only* one offering any forward thinking....and not having a (flexible) proactive plan is a bad way to govern...
Nice to see
The Scottish Christian Party being given some credit. Thanks, Dave. It is the case that the SCP polled more votes than any of the other parties that did not have members in the last Scottish Parliament - no mean feat for a party that is still (in party political terms) in its infancy. It also had a number of radical policies - some of which heve been put forward by others since last May!!
My personal vision would be for a 2011 (or earlier!) Holyrood election that resulted in the SNP being, clearly, the largest party, and the SCP coming in a reasonable second - maybe ten seats behind the SNP.
It would be good to see a party that, while overtly Christian, is
NOT sectarian, being allowed to play a major part in returning principle and integrity to Scottish politics, at every level.
Meanwhile, I wish AS and the SNP well. While the SCP exists, they won't get my personal vote, but they have certainly shown both backbone and vision since they took over the reins of Scottish Government - something of which the previous administrations never seemed to be capable!
Posted by: Macuistean, Isle of Tiree on 10:10am Mon 17 Mar 08
Just found this story in The Daily Retard
MSP Trish Godman Claimed £30,000 To Rent Son's Flat
Mar 17 2008
A SENIOR MSP claimed more than £30,000 in "hotel" expenses for renting her fraudster son's flat, it emerged yesterday.
Is this the way Labour work to help vulnerable two year olds, pensioners and the poor?
Just found this story in The Daily Retard
MSP Trish Godman Claimed £30,000 To Rent Son's Flat
Mar 17 2008
A SENIOR MSP claimed more than £30,000 in "hotel" expenses for renting her fraudster son's flat, it emerged yesterday.
Is this the way Labour work to help vulnerable two year olds, pensioners and the poor?
Posted by: rob4i, Scottish Borders on 10:11am Mon 17 Mar 08
[quote][bold]Lachlan[/bold] wrote:
The ineffectual leaders of the majority Scots Unionists parties need a good kick up their rear ends for ever allowing the minority Nationalists to gain a platform in the Scottish Parliament which was created for devolved Unionist Government! In a democracy, every section of society is allowed by right to put forward it's views but are the Scots Unionist parties simply going to roll over and let the Nationalists have the field? As research has found, the Scots Electorate did not vote for the SNP to bring about separation from the UK State but to allow it the same opportunity in government as the disappointing Unionist parties. However, IF the SNP success continues the Unionists better get used to co-habitation with the Nationalists? This has already been demonstrated by the hapless Tories who have supported some of the Nationalists policies, and in years to come Scots Labour might well have to rely on the SNP for coalition support as presently exists in Wales? [/quote] You said.... "This has already been demonstrated by the hapless Tories who have supported some of the Nationalists policies."
So you are saying that political parties should never agree or support a particular policy of another party, even if it is a good, commonsense policy?
Or are you saying that only the Unionist parties should agree and all of them should disagree with all Nationalist policies? even though the Scottish electorate voted them in!! OH DEAR, OH DEAR !!!
Lachlan wrote:
The ineffectual leaders of the majority Scots Unionists parties need a good kick up their rear ends for ever allowing the minority Nationalists to gain a platform in the Scottish Parliament which was created for devolved Unionist Government! In a democracy, every section of society is allowed by right to put forward it's views but are the Scots Unionist parties simply going to roll over and let the Nationalists have the field? As research has found, the Scots Electorate did not vote for the SNP to bring about separation from the UK State but to allow it the same opportunity in government as the disappointing Unionist parties. However, IF the SNP success continues the Unionists better get used to co-habitation with the Nationalists? This has already been demonstrated by the hapless Tories who have supported some of the Nationalists policies, and in years to come Scots Labour might well have to rely on the SNP for coalition support as presently exists in Wales?
You said.... "This has already been demonstrated by the hapless Tories who have supported some of the Nationalists policies."
So you are saying that political parties should never agree or support a particular policy of another party, even if it is a good, commonsense policy?
Or are you saying that only the Unionist parties should agree and all of them should disagree with all Nationalist policies? even though the Scottish electorate voted them in!! OH DEAR, OH DEAR !!!
Posted by: angiebobs, the best wee small nuclear free country in the world on 10:17am Mon 17 Mar 08
Now would be a good time to refuse nuclear convoys on Scottish roads, to ban military recruitment from scottish schools and to refuse to bankroll the policing of faslane...don't ya think?
All perfectly possible with current powers in parliament.
This could inspire antiwar and peace movement across UK and world. So lets see Scottish Govt have a go.
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