Brown steps in to give Martin support
 |
| BACKING: Gordon Brown, out and about in Clapham yesterday, said Michael Martin has been, and is, a very good Speaker'. |
Michael Martin last night defied his detractors by
making clear he was staying put as Commons Speaker as Gordon Brown offered his unequivocal support to the embattled Glasgow MP.
In his first appearance in the chair since pressure was piled on him in a row over his
parliamentary expenses, the
62-year-old politician received a loud "hear hear" from his colleagues in the Commons chamber and during question time was approached by
several Labour back benchers who squeezed his arm and gave a thumbs-up in expressions of support. It was noticeable no Conservative MP did the same.
While question time related to home affairs, two MPs were able to work in references to Mr Martin's run-in with certain sections of the London-based press. Jim Sheridan, Labour MP for Paisley and Renfrewshire North, spoke about visas for foreign journalists, which should only be given, he asserted, if they dealt with "factual evidence and
factual evidence only".
Jim Spellar, the former Labour minister, told the Speaker it was "a pleasure to see you in your place, may you long stay there". He added to vociferous approval from
colleagues: "In this country, the Speaker is chosen not by an attempted coup from the press gallery but by the members of this House."
However, it was later during a Point of Order that Mr Martin challenged his opponents.
One of the criticisms has been that, following the expenses scandal involving the disgraced Tory MP Derek Conway, the Speaker will chair a committee of Establishment figures and will not report until the autumn.
David Winnick, Labour MP for Walsall North, told
Mr Martin: "In view of the public concern over this whole issue - and the rather misleading impression that we are all on the make at public expense - would it be possible for
the review to have greater urgency and not wait for the autumn?
"This is a matter causing damage to the reputation of the House and the sooner we can resolve it, the better."
However, the Speaker gave an impassioned response, telling MPs: "This House has charged me with a responsibility and I will carry out that duty until this House decides otherwise - and that is a good thing for the reputation of this House."
Support for the under-fire Speaker was earlier led by the Prime Minister, who insisted: "Most people know that Michael Martin, the Speaker, has been, and is, a very good Speaker. He obviously brings a huge amount of experience from things that he's done earlier in his life to the job and you'll find that there's an enormous respect for what he's achieved as the Speaker."
Mr Brown added that questions over the claiming of allowances were "a matter for the House of Commons".
Clare Short, the former Labour cabinet minister and now an independent MP, meantime called for Mr
Martin to be removed from the expenses review. "He can't chair that because he's an MP and he's doing things that
others are doing and that's hopeless," she said.
Last week, pressure mounted on Mr Martin over claims he used air miles - received due to official business - so that his family could spend Hogmanay in London and that his wife, Mary, had spent more than £4000 on taxis and that he had spent £75,000 in allowances on his home in Glasgow even though it no longer has a mortgage on it.
Events turned badly for the Speaker at the weekend when his spokesman, Mike Granatt, resigned for "ethical reasons" after he learned that information he had been given - that Mrs Martin had been accompanied by a Commons official on trips to buy food for official banquets - was wrong and that consequently he had unwittingly misled journalists; in fact, the person who accompanied Mrs Martin was her housekeeper.
While critics insist the
Glasgow MP is not up to the job and blanch at the prospect of him serving as Speaker in a third parliament, his supporters claim he is the victim of a witchhunt led by Oxbridge snobs, who cannot stand the idea of an ex-sheet metal worker doing such a prestigious job.
Last night, the Speaker received better news as John Lyon, Westminster's Commissioner for Standards, said he would not be investigating the complaint against Mr Martin's use of air miles as he had "not identified the provisions in the code of conduct of MPs ... which preclude a member using air miles in the way alleged".
Mr Lyon has also received a complaint over Mrs Martin's taxi bills and is due shortly to determine whether or not to launch a full investigation into this matter.
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Posted by: portybelle, scotland on 12:07am Tue 26 Feb 08
It's not just Brown who's giving his support. Earlier this evening Newsnight's Michael Crick chatted to Labour MP Eric Joyce, who was defending Speaker Martin and again saying that those who attack him are solely motivated by party politics, class, snobbery and religious bias. Can this be the same Eric Joyce whose record-breaking 2006 expenses bill was £174,800, including £30,000 for flights between Falkirk and London?
It's not just Brown who's giving his support. Earlier this evening Newsnight's Michael Crick chatted to Labour MP Eric Joyce, who was defending Speaker Martin and again saying that those who attack him are solely motivated by party politics, class, snobbery and religious bias. Can this be the same Eric Joyce whose record-breaking 2006 expenses bill was £174,800, including £30,000 for flights between Falkirk and London?
Posted by: Alex Porter, Madrid on 12:44am Tue 26 Feb 08
Wasn't 'Gorbal's Mick' meant to be rhyming slang anyway?
Robbed the people and got away with it and so, relieved that the gravey train would roll on regardless, Labour cheered out 'hear hear'.
And vulnerable 2 year old leapt with joy.
Wasn't 'Gorbal's Mick' meant to be rhyming slang anyway?
Robbed the people and got away with it and so, relieved that the gravey train would roll on regardless, Labour cheered out 'hear hear'.
And vulnerable 2 year old leapt with joy.
Posted by: Karin, glasgae. on 12:46am Tue 26 Feb 08
Anyone had a look at this new opinion poll it did canvass scotland but the sample was so low that it is impossible to determine any actual voting intentions for scotland in it.
http://www.theherald
.co.uk/national_news
/index.var.188541.0.
tories_open_up_11_po
int_lead.php?
Anyone had a look at this new opinion poll it did canvass scotland but the sample was so low that it is impossible to determine any actual voting intentions for scotland in it.
http://www.theherald
.co.uk/national_news
/index.var.188541.0.
tories_open_up_11_po
int_lead.php?
Posted by: Ronald, Glasgow on 1:18am Tue 26 Feb 08
And it could be the same Eric Joyce, tireless supporter of the ilegal brutal Iraq Massacres, Friend of Israel, and all-round NEW LABOUR scumbag!
And it could be the same Eric Joyce, tireless supporter of the ilegal brutal Iraq Massacres, Friend of Israel, and all-round NEW LABOUR scumbag!
Posted by: allymax, yuk on 1:26am Tue 26 Feb 08
I'm not so sure having Bean-Broon in your corner is good public relations?
Elitism rules uk.
I'm not so sure having Bean-Broon in your corner is good public relations?
Elitism rules uk.
Posted by: Wullie, Aberdeen on 1:38am Tue 26 Feb 08
Nice photo, Is Gordon Broon getting arrested.
Nice photo, Is Gordon Broon getting arrested.
Posted by: Scunnert, Travelling in Nihlon on 3:00am Tue 26 Feb 08
[quote][bold]Wullie[/bold] wrote:
Nice photo, Is Gordon Broon getting arrested.[/quote] Wishful thinking Wullie.
Wullie wrote:
Nice photo, Is Gordon Broon getting arrested.
Wishful thinking Wullie.
Posted by: Los Angeles, Edinburgh on 3:13am Tue 26 Feb 08
Oor Wullie[quote]Nice photo, Is Gordon Broon getting arrested.[/quote] LoL
He does look as if handcuffed.
Oor Wullie
Nice photo, Is Gordon Broon getting arrested.
LoL
He does look as if handcuffed.
Posted by: wisnaeme, wisnae there on 3:38am Tue 26 Feb 08
" A very good speaker".
Ach aye, but then so was Lord Haw Haw.
.
" A very good speaker".
Ach aye, but then so was Lord Haw Haw.
.
Posted by: Donald Anderson, glasgow on 4:53am Tue 26 Feb 08
Labour wrong doers are always exempt on grounds of "good character" - according to their accomplices. So, anyone going to court only needs his fellow lags to speak up for him and the rest is irrelevant.
Do you think that will work for Gail Sheridan, who didn't have cases of HP Sauce in her hooses at each end of her plane journey.
Labour wrong doers are always exempt on grounds of "good character" - according to their accomplices. So, anyone going to court only needs his fellow lags to speak up for him and the rest is irrelevant.
Do you think that will work for Gail Sheridan, who didn't have cases of HP Sauce in her hooses at each end of her plane journey.
Posted by: Donald Anderson, glasgow on 4:53am Tue 26 Feb 08
Labour wrong doers are always exempt on grounds of "good character" - according to their accomplices. So, anyone going to court only needs his fellow lags to speak up for him and the rest is irrelevant.
Do you think that will work for Gail Sheridan, who didn't have cases of HP Sauce in her hooses at each end of her plane journey.
Labour wrong doers are always exempt on grounds of "good character" - according to their accomplices. So, anyone going to court only needs his fellow lags to speak up for him and the rest is irrelevant.
Do you think that will work for Gail Sheridan, who didn't have cases of HP Sauce in her hooses at each end of her plane journey.
Posted by: Los Angeles, Edinburgh on 5:36am Tue 26 Feb 08
[quote]John Lyon, Westminster's Commissioner for Standards, said he would not be investigating the complaint against Mr Martin's use of air miles as he had "not identified the provisions in the code of conduct of MPs ... which preclude a member using air miles in the way alleged".[/quote] I know a very successful businessman who employs many people over three offices in three major cities. He insists they all fly by one airline, not take a train or bus or car, and has negotiated lower fares for that purpose ... but keeps all the flier miles for his own personal use. which in any one year are considerable. He, therefore, flies free almost anywhere he wants, work or recreation.
John Lyon, Westminster's Commissioner for Standards, said he would not be investigating the complaint against Mr Martin's use of air miles as he had "not identified the provisions in the code of conduct of MPs ... which preclude a member using air miles in the way alleged".
I know a very successful businessman who employs many people over three offices in three major cities. He insists they all fly by one airline, not take a train or bus or car, and has negotiated lower fares for that purpose ... but keeps all the flier miles for his own personal use. which in any one year are considerable. He, therefore, flies free almost anywhere he wants, work or recreation.
Posted by: george alexander, north lanarkshire on 6:37am Tue 26 Feb 08
Time moves ever on and will not stop. The generation who experienced WW2 have all but gone, their offspring are now pensioners and they too begin their demise.
These good people were the backbone not just of the Labour party but of the Union. Their work ethic, upholding of traditional values and wartime experiences preserved an invisible thread that bound Scotland to the U.K.
Tradition had it that those pillars of the community doctors, teachers and policemen and politicians were afforded reverential respect. This rigid conformity however meant that the establishment was rarely challenged.
If the BBC or indeed the newspapers reported a story then it was generally accepted as fact. To many of these families the Labour party offered salvation from abject poverty, a vote for anyone else was unimaginable.
Today however this thread has all but disappeared. Teachers and doctors no longer command respect, but command sympathy. Many politician's are now viewed with such contempt that it is difficult to imagine it getting any worse.
Almost all of the corruption, law breaking and lying is exclusively perpetrated by Unionist politicians. If it were not for protective bodies like the Electoral Commission then we would already be seeing some of these politicians in court facing prison sentences.
The electorate on both sides of the border look on aghast as details of the perks and privileges of MP's and their relatives are finally made public. That many of these practices are apparently within the rules compounds the electorate's anger.
The Union is over, held together only by the establishment and those who benefit from it. None of the U.K. electorate are served by this anachronistic old boys club. A club so unable to shake off the imperialist mindset that it still yearns to sit at the top table with the super powers.
The English media appear to be cottoning onto the need for reform. It won't be long before the English people follow suit.
The Scots however have no such radical media, they have already decided on their own that they have had enough.
The ever dwindling band of pro-unionists (never to be confused with well meaning, but also decreasing, Labour voters) struggle to argue against independence and for the continuation of the Westminster monolithic behemoth.
Their arguments include the name calling (Nationalists are xenphobes, racists, fascists etc), the scaremongering (Scotland would be an economic basket case) and the history one (the past would be erased).
The so called pro-union arguments are equally ridiculous amounting to no more than we have 'greater influence' in negotiations as part of the U.K.
The youth of Scotland will not be so ready to swallow the propoganda that their parents, grand parents and great grandparents did.
Independence is the way forward, our young deserve the opportunity to create a better Scotland than generations past have left them. We have probably the greatest array of natural resources of any modern country, coupled with an established and widely respected education system.
If we shirk the challenge then we will be viewed with deserved contempt by those yet unborn.
Time moves ever on and will not stop. The generation who experienced WW2 have all but gone, their offspring are now pensioners and they too begin their demise.
These good people were the backbone not just of the Labour party but of the Union. Their work ethic, upholding of traditional values and wartime experiences preserved an invisible thread that bound Scotland to the U.K.
Tradition had it that those pillars of the community doctors, teachers and policemen and politicians were afforded reverential respect. This rigid conformity however meant that the establishment was rarely challenged.
If the BBC or indeed the newspapers reported a story then it was generally accepted as fact. To many of these families the Labour party offered salvation from abject poverty, a vote for anyone else was unimaginable.
Today however this thread has all but disappeared. Teachers and doctors no longer command respect, but command sympathy. Many politician's are now viewed with such contempt that it is difficult to imagine it getting any worse.
Almost all of the corruption, law breaking and lying is exclusively perpetrated by Unionist politicians. If it were not for protective bodies like the Electoral Commission then we would already be seeing some of these politicians in court facing prison sentences.
The electorate on both sides of the border look on aghast as details of the perks and privileges of MP's and their relatives are finally made public. That many of these practices are apparently within the rules compounds the electorate's anger.
The Union is over, held together only by the establishment and those who benefit from it. None of the U.K. electorate are served by this anachronistic old boys club. A club so unable to shake off the imperialist mindset that it still yearns to sit at the top table with the super powers.
The English media appear to be cottoning onto the need for reform. It won't be long before the English people follow suit.
The Scots however have no such radical media, they have already decided on their own that they have had enough.
The ever dwindling band of pro-unionists (never to be confused with well meaning, but also decreasing, Labour voters) struggle to argue against independence and for the continuation of the Westminster monolithic behemoth.
Their arguments include the name calling (Nationalists are xenphobes, racists, fascists etc), the scaremongering (Scotland would be an economic basket case) and the history one (the past would be erased).
The so called pro-union arguments are equally ridiculous amounting to no more than we have 'greater influence' in negotiations as part of the U.K.
The youth of Scotland will not be so ready to swallow the propoganda that their parents, grand parents and great grandparents did.
Independence is the way forward, our young deserve the opportunity to create a better Scotland than generations past have left them. We have probably the greatest array of natural resources of any modern country, coupled with an established and widely respected education system.
If we shirk the challenge then we will be viewed with deserved contempt by those yet unborn.
Posted by: dws on 7:40am Tue 26 Feb 08
Excellent post, George.
Any chance you could nick Douglas Frasers job from him?
Excellent post, George.
Any chance you could nick Douglas Frasers job from him?
Posted by: steve4349, larbet on 7:57am Tue 26 Feb 08
martin supported by ERIC JOYCE the mp for FALKIRK who resides in SOUTH CROYDON LONDON, his wife teaches in south croydon his kids go to school in south croydon his family home is in south croydon.how does this man represent the people of FALKIRK in scotland
martin supported by ERIC JOYCE the mp for FALKIRK who resides in SOUTH CROYDON LONDON, his wife teaches in south croydon his kids go to school in south croydon his family home is in south croydon.how does this man represent the people of FALKIRK in scotland
Posted by: Lachlan, Stirling on 8:13am Tue 26 Feb 08
After the Prime Minister's brief words of support, and the Opposition leaders distancing themselves from the Speaker's controversy, it appears Martin is untouchable?
After the Prime Minister's brief words of support, and the Opposition leaders distancing themselves from the Speaker's controversy, it appears Martin is untouchable?
Posted by: spagan, heisker, scotland on 8:24am Tue 26 Feb 08
Guess the joke is on us, the electorate. The politicians just can't see it - they've become acclimatised to a life of 'sleaze'. It does mean that "the establishment" - one very powerful step up from the political hierarchies - are virtually untouchable.
Sadly its not just Labour - all our parties are tarnished - tho' Labour perhaps more than most.
Guess the joke is on us, the electorate. The politicians just can't see it - they've become acclimatised to a life of 'sleaze'. It does mean that "the establishment" - one very powerful step up from the political hierarchies - are virtually untouchable.
Sadly its not just Labour - all our parties are tarnished - tho' Labour perhaps more than most.
Posted by: Stuart Black on 8:33am Tue 26 Feb 08
Labour backbenchers cheered at the appearance of the Speaker.
Well, that tells us all we need to know about them..........
Labour backbenchers cheered at the appearance of the Speaker.
Well, that tells us all we need to know about them..........
Posted by: JABRE, FEARN on 8:38am Tue 26 Feb 08
Well said George, says it all.
Well said George, says it all.
Posted by: Tony88, Glasgow on 8:47am Tue 26 Feb 08
What a nonsense article. Brown gives unequivocal support to Martin? His comments were actually timed on tv last night and lasted all of FOUR SECONDS! Well said, George Alexander, you sum the situation up perfectly.
What a nonsense article. Brown gives unequivocal support to Martin? His comments were actually timed on tv last night and lasted all of FOUR SECONDS! Well said, George Alexander, you sum the situation up perfectly.
Posted by: Tony88, Glasgow on 8:51am Tue 26 Feb 08
What a nonsense article. Brown gives unequivocal support to Martin? His comments were actually timed on tv last night and lasted all of FOUR SECONDS! Well said, George Alexander, you sum the situation up perfectly.
What a nonsense article. Brown gives unequivocal support to Martin? His comments were actually timed on tv last night and lasted all of FOUR SECONDS! Well said, George Alexander, you sum the situation up perfectly.
Posted by: BM, Glasgow on 9:14am Tue 26 Feb 08
Anyone who followed "Yes Minister" will realise that this outpouring of support for a beleaguered politician caught up in a scandal is just a precursor to the sacking of the same politician. "The honourable gentleman has my full support" is the statement all MPs dread hearing from their leader!
Anyone who followed "Yes Minister" will realise that this outpouring of support for a beleaguered politician caught up in a scandal is just a precursor to the sacking of the same politician. "The honourable gentleman has my full support" is the statement all MPs dread hearing from their leader!
Posted by: BM, Glasgow on 9:15am Tue 26 Feb 08
Anyone who followed "Yes Minister" will realise that this outpouring of support for a beleaguered politician caught up in a scandal is just a precursor to the sacking of the same politician. "The honourable gentleman has my full support" is the statement all MPs dread hearing from their leader!
Anyone who followed "Yes Minister" will realise that this outpouring of support for a beleaguered politician caught up in a scandal is just a precursor to the sacking of the same politician. "The honourable gentleman has my full support" is the statement all MPs dread hearing from their leader!
Posted by: indyleith, edinburgh on 9:20am Tue 26 Feb 08
They are all clinging on to the sinking ship and will not give up their jobs, they dont want an election they dont want a by-election. They know the game is up and are taking what they can while they can after all old habits die hard.
George Alexander at 6.37am an excellent post which rings bells of truth for Scotland, vote independence and give your country normality.
They are all clinging on to the sinking ship and will not give up their jobs, they dont want an election they dont want a by-election. They know the game is up and are taking what they can while they can after all old habits die hard.
George Alexander at 6.37am an excellent post which rings bells of truth for Scotland, vote independence and give your country normality.
Posted by: Bill, Blantyre on 9:35am Tue 26 Feb 08
The preceding posts by the SNP supporters are predictable. Any suggestion of impropriety by a politician or suporter of another party is immediately seized upon and they are found guilty and condemned by the SNP without any evidence. Shame on you. The good news is that you drive others away from the SNP.
The preceding posts by the SNP supporters are predictable. Any suggestion of impropriety by a politician or suporter of another party is immediately seized upon and they are found guilty and condemned by the SNP without any evidence. Shame on you. The good news is that you drive others away from the SNP.
Posted by: Grassy Knollington on 9:40am Tue 26 Feb 08
Nicely put George Alexander .
Everything you say is so eminently decent and reasonable that I fear Douglas Fraser will be searching for a new term for the loathed nationalist commenter.
I mean vermin is so last month.
Nicely put George Alexander .
Everything you say is so eminently decent and reasonable that I fear Douglas Fraser will be searching for a new term for the loathed nationalist commenter.
I mean vermin is so last month.
Posted by: spagan, heisker, scotland on 9:45am Tue 26 Feb 08
Wrong again Bill.
Have already said that all our elected reps are 'at it'.
However. Westminster is more sleazy - and guess who has been running Westminster for the past decade?
Of course it takes time to change these things - like equality, social justice etc. I'm sure most Labour politicians will tell us that we'll all get our reward in the next life. As long as we keep THEIR collection plates full of 'expenses' -- and then 'jobs for the boys' afterwards.
Check out where all the ex-politicians are getting their extra lucre from. They are not spending their time doing good deeds!
Wrong again Bill.
Have already said that all our elected reps are 'at it'.
However. Westminster is more sleazy - and guess who has been running Westminster for the past decade?
Of course it takes time to change these things - like equality, social justice etc. I'm sure most Labour politicians will tell us that we'll all get our reward in the next life. As long as we keep THEIR collection plates full of 'expenses' -- and then 'jobs for the boys' afterwards.
Check out where all the ex-politicians are getting their extra lucre from. They are not spending their time doing good deeds!
Posted by: The West Awake, Argyll on 9:57am Tue 26 Feb 08
"...the 62-year-old politician received a loud "hear hear" from his colleagues in the Commons chamber and during question time was approached by several Labour back benchers who squeezed his arm and gave a thumbs-up in expressions of support.
One of the main complaints the Tories have about Tricky Mickey (the Lib Dems appear predictably reluctant to criticise their Labour pals) is that he is not objective, which is obviously a fundamental criteria for the post. Such displays of Labour unity as this will only serve to convince them further..
I can't remember the Speaker ever being such a controvertial figure. It appears Labour sleaze and greed are so pernicious it is infecting every sphere of government. The Scottish Government are only behaving like any decent Government should, but Labour are making them look almost saintly.
On the topic of "Gorbals Mick - the working class here btw - have a look at the profile of his predecessor Betty Boothroyd. She not only was born into a family of Yorkshire textile workers, but she was also the first woman speaker in British history.
Her tenure was characterised by not only a lack of sleaze, but a general acceptance by the House that she performed her job with dignity, efficiency and objectivity.
Mickey boy has dragged down the position through expenses exploitation and bias. Typical New Labour stuff.
"Betty Boothroyd was born in Dewsbury, Yorkshire, on 8th October 1929, to Archibald and Mary Boothroyd, textile workers. She was educated at council schools and went on to study at Dewsbury College of Commerce and Art. In the 1940s, Betty Boothroyd enjoyed a career as a dancer, but she decided to follow a career in politics instead, having been a member of the Labour Party since her teens. "
"...the 62-year-old politician received a loud "hear hear" from his colleagues in the Commons chamber and during question time was approached by several Labour back benchers who squeezed his arm and gave a thumbs-up in expressions of support.
One of the main complaints the Tories have about Tricky Mickey (the Lib Dems appear predictably reluctant to criticise their Labour pals) is that he is not objective, which is obviously a fundamental criteria for the post. Such displays of Labour unity as this will only serve to convince them further..
I can't remember the Speaker ever being such a controvertial figure. It appears Labour sleaze and greed are so pernicious it is infecting every sphere of government. The Scottish Government are only behaving like any decent Government should, but Labour are making them look almost saintly.
On the topic of "Gorbals Mick - the working class here btw - have a look at the profile of his predecessor Betty Boothroyd. She not only was born into a family of Yorkshire textile workers, but she was also the first woman speaker in British history.
Her tenure was characterised by not only a lack of sleaze, but a general acceptance by the House that she performed her job with dignity, efficiency and objectivity.
Mickey boy has dragged down the position through expenses exploitation and bias. Typical New Labour stuff.
"Betty Boothroyd was born in Dewsbury, Yorkshire, on 8th October 1929, to Archibald and Mary Boothroyd, textile workers. She was educated at council schools and went on to study at Dewsbury College of Commerce and Art. In the 1940s, Betty Boothroyd enjoyed a career as a dancer, but she decided to follow a career in politics instead, having been a member of the Labour Party since her teens. "
Posted by: David Alexander on 9:58am Tue 26 Feb 08
I ventured across to Douglas Fraser's blog and found the following:
[quote]Its farewell to one of The Herald's team at Holyrood. After only 10 months, Kevin Schofield – a man who shows there is more to Bonnybridge than UFOs – is leaving us. He is packing his belongings in a knotted handkerchief, Dick Whittington style, and taking his cats with him to seek his fortune in London, where the streets are paved with ... warnings about the congestion charge. His destination is Westminster, where he is to be the Daily Record's man. We wish him well.[/quote]
Kevin Schofield working for the Record - who would have thunk it?
I ventured across to Douglas Fraser's blog and found the following:
Its farewell to one of The Herald's team at Holyrood. After only 10 months, Kevin Schofield – a man who shows there is more to Bonnybridge than UFOs – is leaving us. He is packing his belongings in a knotted handkerchief, Dick Whittington style, and taking his cats with him to seek his fortune in London, where the streets are paved with ... warnings about the congestion charge. His destination is Westminster, where he is to be the Daily Record's man. We wish him well.
Kevin Schofield working for the Record - who would have thunk it?
Posted by: AyrshireScot, South Ayrshire on 10:00am Tue 26 Feb 08
[quote][bold]Bill[/bold] wrote:
The preceding posts by the SNP supporters are predictable. Any suggestion of impropriety by a politician or suporter of another party is immediately seized upon and they are found guilty and condemned by the SNP without any evidence. Shame on you. The good news is that you drive others away from the SNP.[/quote] Bill, I find that when the Labour party has admitted 120 counts of law breaking relating to illegal donations, and the Prime Minister admits law breaking, and Wendy Alexander admits law breaking, and Harriet Harman admits law breaking, and Tom McCabe admits law breaking, and Peter Hain and Alexander are reported to the fiscal by independent bodies, it drives me away from the Labour party.
Similarly when Labour MPs and MSPs try to raise the issue of the First Minister using his ministerial car to meet with a £1bn investor in Scotland as dubious, but then defend £4000 in taxi fares by a politician's wife who has no elected role or office, I find them repulsively hypocritical.
Bill wrote:
The preceding posts by the SNP supporters are predictable. Any suggestion of impropriety by a politician or suporter of another party is immediately seized upon and they are found guilty and condemned by the SNP without any evidence. Shame on you. The good news is that you drive others away from the SNP.
Bill, I find that when the Labour party has admitted 120 counts of law breaking relating to illegal donations, and the Prime Minister admits law breaking, and Wendy Alexander admits law breaking, and Harriet Harman admits law breaking, and Tom McCabe admits law breaking, and Peter Hain and Alexander are reported to the fiscal by independent bodies, it drives me away from the Labour party.
Similarly when Labour MPs and MSPs try to raise the issue of the First Minister using his ministerial car to meet with a £1bn investor in Scotland as dubious, but then defend £4000 in taxi fares by a politician's wife who has no elected role or office, I find them repulsively hypocritical.
Posted by: art1000, Dunfermline on 10:03am Tue 26 Feb 08
Excellent post from George Alexander. The SNP have shown themselves the one force that can defeat NuLab not just politically but more importantly morally and by doing so has given example and hope of a new politics to their many supporters in England.
Excellent post from George Alexander. The SNP have shown themselves the one force that can defeat NuLab not just politically but more importantly morally and by doing so has given example and hope of a new politics to their many supporters in England.
Posted by: David Alexander on 10:11am Tue 26 Feb 08
Bill, Blantyre
As someone from outside the Central Belt, (although born in Glasgow) I have always found one of the defining attitudes of Glaswegians to be one of "Ah know ma rights, don't mess wi me pal, dae ye think ma heid buttons up the back?"
How come then that you not only stand for, but defend all that goes on in Westminster?
It would seem to me that such misdeeds are so ingrained in the mindsets of some Labour supporters that anyone daring to question the immorality of it is somehow trying to smear the good personality of the accused.
Please tell me Bill what it is that you find so attractive about the ways and means of Michael Martin, Wendy Alexander et al?
Bill, Blantyre
As someone from outside the Central Belt, (although born in Glasgow) I have always found one of the defining attitudes of Glaswegians to be one of "Ah know ma rights, don't mess wi me pal, dae ye think ma heid buttons up the back?"
How come then that you not only stand for, but defend all that goes on in Westminster?
It would seem to me that such misdeeds are so ingrained in the mindsets of some Labour supporters that anyone daring to question the immorality of it is somehow trying to smear the good personality of the accused.
Please tell me Bill what it is that you find so attractive about the ways and means of Michael Martin, Wendy Alexander et al?
Posted by: TheGlaswegian, Edinburgh on 10:16am Tue 26 Feb 08
Bill, Blantyre [quote]The good news is that you drive others away from the SNP[/quote] Says who? Have you facts? Or did you just make this up out of nothing?
I am not happy with the theft and corruption endemic within Westminster and are even less impressed with Scottish Labour's attitude up here (Wendy flouting the law then claiming she has been cleared then claiming that it was actually a press witch hunt, the attempted theft of £150,000 by John Lindsay of East Lothian council and other similar behaviour). If you think that people who voice their disgust at the pigs at the trough attitude is somehow wrong then that's up to you but your failure to condemn this greedy behaviour does the labour party and your country a great disservice.
If you cannot see that independence and a massive reform of Westminster from an English perspective is the only way to sort this greed fest out then you could argue that you are perhaps seriously deluded.
What do you think of George Alexander's post at 6:37am? Are you trying to say that George deserves to feel shame for his post? Are you seriously suggesting that his post will turn people from the SNP? You aught to look outside you little world. Look at the deprivation around you. Why should a country so rich in natural resource (and I'm not talking just oil) have old people dying from hyperthermia and hundreds of thousands of children classified as living in poverty? Why do think it is OK to accept MPs milking the system they created to get free money for their families whilst at the same time submitting expense claims where no receipts are required?
Can you not stop to consider that maybe someone has pulled the wool over your eyes?
Do you ever wonder why poverty and deprivation is highest within the traditional labour heartlands?
Do you ever wonder why poverty and deprivation is lowest outwith the traditional labour heartlands?
You can follow blindly without question and you can choose to ignore their greed but there are many who will not. The labour party can only be saved when its voters stop acting like sheep.
Bill, Blantyre
The good news is that you drive others away from the SNP
Says who? Have you facts? Or did you just make this up out of nothing?
I am not happy with the theft and corruption endemic within Westminster and are even less impressed with Scottish Labour's attitude up here (Wendy flouting the law then claiming she has been cleared then claiming that it was actually a press witch hunt, the attempted theft of £150,000 by John Lindsay of East Lothian council and other similar behaviour). If you think that people who voice their disgust at the pigs at the trough attitude is somehow wrong then that's up to you but your failure to condemn this greedy behaviour does the labour party and your country a great disservice.
If you cannot see that independence and a massive reform of Westminster from an English perspective is the only way to sort this greed fest out then you could argue that you are perhaps seriously deluded.
What do you think of George Alexander's post at 6:37am? Are you trying to say that George deserves to feel shame for his post? Are you seriously suggesting that his post will turn people from the SNP? You aught to look outside you little world. Look at the deprivation around you. Why should a country so rich in natural resource (and I'm not talking just oil) have old people dying from hyperthermia and hundreds of thousands of children classified as living in poverty? Why do think it is OK to accept MPs milking the system they created to get free money for their families whilst at the same time submitting expense claims where no receipts are required?
Can you not stop to consider that maybe someone has pulled the wool over your eyes?
Do you ever wonder why poverty and deprivation is highest within the traditional labour heartlands?
Do you ever wonder why poverty and deprivation is lowest outwith the traditional labour heartlands?
You can follow blindly without question and you can choose to ignore their greed but there are many who will not. The labour party can only be saved when its voters stop acting like sheep.
Posted by: kamiddler, Glasgow on 10:17am Tue 26 Feb 08
How can Martin remain in post and remain in the chair of a committee looking at MP's pay, expenses and allowances? Whatever the outcome of that committee's deliberations it will be tainted beyond credibility and respect. Martin is bringing UK politics into disrepute both domestically and world wide and our deserved reputation as being amongst the least corrupt places in the world is yet again taking a hammering.
I don't care about his background or his accent he should have respect for his colleagues and for parliament and he should go.
Brown appeared very reluctant to say his bit in support yesterday, he clearly refused to answer any questions, he said his sentence wearing the old scowl and then made a sharp exit. I don't think Martin or Brown will survive in high political office very long.
How can Martin remain in post and remain in the chair of a committee looking at MP's pay, expenses and allowances? Whatever the outcome of that committee's deliberations it will be tainted beyond credibility and respect. Martin is bringing UK politics into disrepute both domestically and world wide and our deserved reputation as being amongst the least corrupt places in the world is yet again taking a hammering.
I don't care about his background or his accent he should have respect for his colleagues and for parliament and he should go.
Brown appeared very reluctant to say his bit in support yesterday, he clearly refused to answer any questions, he said his sentence wearing the old scowl and then made a sharp exit. I don't think Martin or Brown will survive in high political office very long.
Posted by: Exiled Aussie, Banff on 10:47am Tue 26 Feb 08
[quote][bold]Alex Porter[/bold] wrote:
Wasn't 'Gorbal's Mick' meant to be rhyming slang anyway? Robbed the people and got away with it and so, relieved that the gravey train would roll on regardless, Labour cheered out 'hear hear'. And vulnerable 2 year old leapt with joy. [/quote] Lets start with the "Gorbals Mick" crack.
The Speaker nebver lived ín that part of the City and the term is ib=nrencded as another slight diorected at the man - and also to the good folk of Gorbals by insinuation.
As for the "gravey train" (sic) what about dosh slung at a politiical party (leastways so it pretends) by a tax exile who now says that "he would [bold]even[/bold] think about rerurning to Scotland if it got independance".
Big deal and a threat that should ensure that the [bold]TARTAN TORIES[/bold] are routed next time around !
Alex Porter wrote:
Wasn't 'Gorbal's Mick' meant to be rhyming slang anyway? Robbed the people and got away with it and so, relieved that the gravey train would roll on regardless, Labour cheered out 'hear hear'. And vulnerable 2 year old leapt with joy.
Lets start with the "Gorbals Mick" crack.
The Speaker nebver lived ín that part of the City and the term is ib=nrencded as another slight diorected at the man - and also to the good folk of Gorbals by insinuation.
As for the "gravey train" (sic) what about dosh slung at a politiical party (leastways so it pretends) by a tax exile who now says that "he would
even think about rerurning to Scotland if it got independance".
Big deal and a threat that should ensure that the
TARTAN TORIES are routed next time around !
Posted by: wisnaeme, wisnae there on 10:48am Tue 26 Feb 08
Aye, I can only reiterate what other folk have already said.
Right on the mark, George Alexander with every comma and full stop in your excellent post.
I can feel the anger in it, George. Aye and with righteous justification.
Have you seen the article in the Guardian entitled ;
[bold]
Martin tells critics he will resist attempts to force him to quit.
[/bold]
"fridges, sofas, dining tables, beds, TV's, cookers", ect, ect.
Now what does that remind me of? I remember now, hang on while I dig out an old video recording....
Aye right enough. It's a documentary about riots. Oh look that's terrible, folk smashing shop windows and looting.
They're awa wa fridges, sofas, dining tables ( an chairs tae match ), beds, TV's, cookers and anything else they can get their thieving haunds on. There's a crook trying tae cart off a shopping trolley filled with food !! Mind you, it doesn't look as if he's managed to fill it with four hundred quids worth. Ach weel, he'll be back fer mair no doubt.
Whaurs the forces of law and order then? Shurely there's laws against that sort of thing.
Now I wonder who's gonna end up paying for yon? Aye, right enough. Nae wonder the cost of living for folk is going up. Some folk more than others apparently.
.
Aye, I can only reiterate what other folk have already said.
Right on the mark, George Alexander with every comma and full stop in your excellent post.
I can feel the anger in it, George. Aye and with righteous justification.
Have you seen the article in the Guardian entitled ;
Martin tells critics he will resist attempts to force him to quit.
"fridges, sofas, dining tables, beds, TV's, cookers", ect, ect.
Now what does that remind me of? I remember now, hang on while I dig out an old video recording....
Aye right enough. It's a documentary about riots. Oh look that's terrible, folk smashing shop windows and looting.
They're awa wa fridges, sofas, dining tables ( an chairs tae match ), beds, TV's, cookers and anything else they can get their thieving haunds on. There's a crook trying tae cart off a shopping trolley filled with food !! Mind you, it doesn't look as if he's managed to fill it with four hundred quids worth. Ach weel, he'll be back fer mair no doubt.
Whaurs the forces of law and order then? Shurely there's laws against that sort of thing.
Now I wonder who's gonna end up paying for yon? Aye, right enough. Nae wonder the cost of living for folk is going up. Some folk more than others apparently.
.
Posted by: AyrshireScot, South Ayrshire on 10:52am Tue 26 Feb 08
[quote][bold]Exiled Aussie[/bold] wrote:
[quote][bold]Alex Porter[/bold] wrote: Wasn't 'Gorbal's Mick' meant to be rhyming slang anyway? Robbed the people and got away with it and so, relieved that the gravey train would roll on regardless, Labour cheered out 'hear hear'. And vulnerable 2 year old leapt with joy. [/quote] Lets start with the "Gorbals Mick" crack. The Speaker nebver lived ín that part of the City and the term is ib=nrencded as another slight diorected at the man - and also to the good folk of Gorbals by insinuation. As for the "gravey train" (sic) what about dosh slung at a politiical party (leastways so it pretends) by a tax exile who now says that "he would [bold]even[/bold] think about rerurning to Scotland if it got independance". Big deal and a threat that should ensure that the [bold]TARTAN TORIES[/bold] are routed next time around ![/quote] I didn't realise that Paul Green was coming back to Scotland?
As for the Tartan Tories, I keep telling you that Labour with their anti-Scottish tendencies such as a desire to reduce the powers of Holyrood are not Tartan. However their ID cards, detention without trial, tax cuts for millionaires, opposition to temporary workers legal rights, tuition fees, meants testing benefits for the old, rendition flights etc are very Tory. Labour should be ashamed.
Exiled Aussie wrote:
Alex Porter wrote: Wasn't 'Gorbal's Mick' meant to be rhyming slang anyway? Robbed the people and got away with it and so, relieved that the gravey train would roll on regardless, Labour cheered out 'hear hear'. And vulnerable 2 year old leapt with joy.
Lets start with the "Gorbals Mick" crack. The Speaker nebver lived ín that part of the City and the term is ib=nrencded as another slight diorected at the man - and also to the good folk of Gorbals by insinuation. As for the "gravey train" (sic) what about dosh slung at a politiical party (leastways so it pretends) by a tax exile who now says that "he would even think about rerurning to Scotland if it got independance". Big deal and a threat that should ensure that the TARTAN TORIES are routed next time around !
I didn't realise that Paul Green was coming back to Scotland?
As for the Tartan Tories, I keep telling you that Labour with their anti-Scottish tendencies such as a desire to reduce the powers of Holyrood are not Tartan. However their ID cards, detention without trial, tax cuts for millionaires, opposition to temporary workers legal rights, tuition fees, meants testing benefits for the old, rendition flights etc are very Tory. Labour should be ashamed.
Posted by: David Alexander on 10:56am Tue 26 Feb 08
I think that the cheering of Michael Martin and the sanctimonious grin he delivered on hearing it, will become one of those butterfly's wings moments.
I think that the cheering of Michael Martin and the sanctimonious grin he delivered on hearing it, will become one of those butterfly's wings moments.
Posted by: wisnaeme, wisnae there on 11:01am Tue 26 Feb 08
[bold]...and as fer yon photo of McCavity and plod,by the way;
Ah only took this much, Officer; honest. What a larff, eh?
[/bold]
.
...and as fer yon photo of McCavity and plod,by the way;
Ah only took this much, Officer; honest. What a larff, eh?
.
Posted by: Disgusted Dorothy, Glasgow on 11:03am Tue 26 Feb 08
Exiled Aussie , your argument is growing long whiskers!
Sir Sean has donated LEGALLY , so has Mr Soutar , no matter how offended you are that both these wealthy men supprt the SNP.
Now , if you want to discuss ILLEGALITY and MONEY GRUBBING MPs , feel free!
I'll give you a hint , they are in parties OTHER than the SNP!
Exiled Aussie , your argument is growing long whiskers!
Sir Sean has donated LEGALLY , so has Mr Soutar , no matter how offended you are that both these wealthy men supprt the SNP.
Now , if you want to discuss ILLEGALITY and MONEY GRUBBING MPs , feel free!
I'll give you a hint , they are in parties OTHER than the SNP!
Posted by: Jock Politicaljunkie, Glasgow on 11:11am Tue 26 Feb 08
Exiled Aussie from Banff,
Sorry but I just have no idea where you're coming from other than to use this thread to perpetuate the totally inaccurate tartan tory slur.
Nulab are the party that continue with Tory Thatcherite policies;
Nulab are the party that start illegal wars;
Nulab are the party that have their snouts in the trough;
Nulab are the party that wish to continue basing their WMD's in Scotland;
Nulab are the party that wish to push through Nuclear Power Stations in Scotland;
Nulab are the party who wish to claw back powers, voted for by the people, from Holyrood;
[bold]All against Scottish Public Opinion[/bold]
As an exiled aussie you come from an independent country. I cannot understand why you would want to prevent Scotland doing likewise. It's going to happen - the steady trend is only going in one direction.
As an exile from the other side of the world can I suggest a little background reading for you on your new country of residence -
I could not have put it better myself that the following two posts from earlier today :-
George Alexander - 06:37 &
The Glaswegian - 10:16.
Happy Reading, and remember Independence is on its way -
WHEN not IF :-)
Exiled Aussie from Banff,
Sorry but I just have no idea where you're coming from other than to use this thread to perpetuate the totally inaccurate tartan tory slur.
Nulab are the party that continue with Tory Thatcherite policies;
Nulab are the party that start illegal wars;
Nulab are the party that have their snouts in the trough;
Nulab are the party that wish to continue basing their WMD's in Scotland;
Nulab are the party that wish to push through Nuclear Power Stations in Scotland;
Nulab are the party who wish to claw back powers, voted for by the people, from Holyrood;
All against Scottish Public Opinion
As an exiled aussie you come from an independent country. I cannot understand why you would want to prevent Scotland doing likewise. It's going to happen - the steady trend is only going in one direction.
As an exile from the other side of the world can I suggest a little background reading for you on your new country of residence -
I could not have put it better myself that the following two posts from earlier today :-
George Alexander - 06:37 &
The Glaswegian - 10:16.
Happy Reading, and remember Independence is on its way -
WHEN not IF :-)
Posted by: preddo53, leeds on 11:21am Tue 26 Feb 08
[quote][bold]portybelle[/bold] wrote:
It's not just Brown who's giving his support. Earlier this evening Newsnight's Michael Crick chatted to Labour MP Eric Joyce, who was defending Speaker Martin and again saying that those who attack him are solely motivated by party politics, class, snobbery and religious bias. Can this be the same Eric Joyce whose record-breaking 2006 expenses bill was £174,800, including £30,000 for flights between Falkirk and London?[/quote] £174,800, small change compared to the nuuuuuuuuu liebot MP for Batley of £380,000. I wonder how many family members he was employing.
portybelle wrote:
It's not just Brown who's giving his support. Earlier this evening Newsnight's Michael Crick chatted to Labour MP Eric Joyce, who was defending Speaker Martin and again saying that those who attack him are solely motivated by party politics, class, snobbery and religious bias. Can this be the same Eric Joyce whose record-breaking 2006 expenses bill was £174,800, including £30,000 for flights between Falkirk and London?
£174,800, small change compared to the nuuuuuuuuu liebot MP for Batley of £380,000. I wonder how many family members he was employing.
Posted by: Haggis & Shortbread, Glasgow on 11:36am Tue 26 Feb 08
Independence is on it's way? When exactly? Dream on nats. This is as good as it gets for you. Running a DEVOLVED government within the UK. is the most you will ever get. Instead of the usual backslapping, try and work out the reasons why you would lose an independence referendum any time in the near future. Here's a clue - not enough people in Scotland would vote for it, that's why. So instead of constantly slagging of labour, try and convince the rest of us why independence is a good idea. Also, we also don't like being told that we are less Scottish than you because we're not nats. Is everyone who goes to Hampden or Murrayfield as proud Scots an SNP supporter? You're not winning the argument.
Independence is on it's way? When exactly? Dream on nats. This is as good as it gets for you. Running a DEVOLVED government within the UK. is the most you will ever get. Instead of the usual backslapping, try and work out the reasons why you would lose an independence referendum any time in the near future. Here's a clue - not enough people in Scotland would vote for it, that's why. So instead of constantly slagging of labour, try and convince the rest of us why independence is a good idea. Also, we also don't like being told that we are less Scottish than you because we're not nats. Is everyone who goes to Hampden or Murrayfield as proud Scots an SNP supporter? You're not winning the argument.
Posted by: Edward, Edinburgh on 11:43am Tue 26 Feb 08
[quote][bold]Lachlan[/bold] wrote:
After the Prime Minister's brief words of support, and the Opposition leaders distancing themselves from the Speaker's controversy, it appears Martin is untouchable?[/quote] Not untouchable
Ive a feeling the stance by the opposition is more to do with the office of speaker and how the office of speaker is supposed to be above reproach and non political (a bit like the americans atitude to the office of president, they dont like anything against the office, but are happy to get at the man)
There was nothing wrong in Michael Martin being made speaker, in certain respects he has mad a good speaker and it has been a few hoorah henries that have not been able to stand having someone from north of the border with an accent thats strong as speaker. BUT Michael Martin has sailed close to the wind on a few occassions in ignoring some MP's and now the accusations of sleaze, which he has only himself to blame. Personally I think he is taking the p**s in claiming expenses on a house that he owns out right in Glasgow and for his wife to have £ 40000 in taxis just to go shopping considering the good public transport on there london doorstep
Lachlan wrote:
After the Prime Minister's brief words of support, and the Opposition leaders distancing themselves from the Speaker's controversy, it appears Martin is untouchable?
Not untouchable
Ive a feeling the stance by the opposition is more to do with the office of speaker and how the office of speaker is supposed to be above reproach and non political (a bit like the americans atitude to the office of president, they dont like anything against the office, but are happy to get at the man)
There was nothing wrong in Michael Martin being made speaker, in certain respects he has mad a good speaker and it has been a few hoorah henries that have not been able to stand having someone from north of the border with an accent thats strong as speaker. BUT Michael Martin has sailed close to the wind on a few occassions in ignoring some MP's and now the accusations of sleaze, which he has only himself to blame. Personally I think he is taking the p**s in claiming expenses on a house that he owns out right in Glasgow and for his wife to have £ 40000 in taxis just to go shopping considering the good public transport on there london doorstep
Posted by: Grassy Knollington on 11:46am Tue 26 Feb 08
Off topic but anyone who has the stomach to take on some jock baiters should have a read of Chritopher Harvie's column in Guardian comment is free today.
He rightly rounds on Brillo for his latest pronouncements on Scottish devolution and is getting the usual hammering from the Scot- hating Britishers.
Off topic but anyone who has the stomach to take on some jock baiters should have a read of Chritopher Harvie's column in Guardian comment is free today.
He rightly rounds on Brillo for his latest pronouncements on Scottish devolution and is getting the usual hammering from the Scot- hating Britishers.
Posted by: David Alexander on 11:52am Tue 26 Feb 08
H&S 11:36
Good morning PtbS.
H&S 11:36
Good morning PtbS.
Posted by: Edward, Edinburgh on 11:55am Tue 26 Feb 08
[quote][bold]Grassy Knollington[/bold] wrote:
Off topic but anyone who has the stomach to take on some jock baiters should have a read of Chritopher Harvie's column in Guardian comment is free today. He rightly rounds on Brillo for his latest pronouncements on Scottish devolution and is getting the usual hammering from the Scot- hating Britishers.[/quote] do you have the link?
Grassy Knollington wrote:
Off topic but anyone who has the stomach to take on some jock baiters should have a read of Chritopher Harvie's column in Guardian comment is free today. He rightly rounds on Brillo for his latest pronouncements on Scottish devolution and is getting the usual hammering from the Scot- hating Britishers.
do you have the link?
Posted by: Haggis & Shortbread, Glasgow on 12:00pm Tue 26 Feb 08
Wrong. I'm proud to be haggis and shortbread. Waiting for a patiently for an independence referendum.
Wrong. I'm proud to be haggis and shortbread. Waiting for a patiently for an independence referendum.
Posted by: David Alexander on 12:08pm Tue 26 Feb 08
[quote]Wrong. I'm proud to be haggis and shortbread.[/quote]
You've got me smiling at that!
Cheers :)
Wrong. I'm proud to be haggis and shortbread.
You've got me smiling at that!
Cheers :)
Posted by: Spoonsy, Glasgow on 12:23pm Tue 26 Feb 08
Stop Press:
MP claims expenses he's entitles to!
Oh, the horror ....
Strange days indeed, when 'Scotland's Champions' - the SNP cybernats - can be whipped up into a frenzy by the Daily Mail.
Stranger days too, when they'll adopt a slur - 'Gorbals Mick' - dreamed up by the Conservatives to denigrate a Scot from Glasgow.
Does the 'S' in SNP stand for 'sheep' by any chance?
Stop Press:
MP claims expenses he's entitles to!
Oh, the horror ....
Strange days indeed, when 'Scotland's Champions' - the SNP cybernats - can be whipped up into a frenzy by the Daily Mail.
Stranger days too, when they'll adopt a slur - 'Gorbals Mick' - dreamed up by the Conservatives to denigrate a Scot from Glasgow.
Does the 'S' in SNP stand for 'sheep' by any chance?
Posted by: AyrshireScot, South Ayrshire on 12:26pm Tue 26 Feb 08
[quote][bold]Spoonsy[/bold] wrote:
Stop Press: MP claims expenses he's entitles to! Oh, the horror .... Strange days indeed, when 'Scotland's Champions' - the SNP cybernats - can be whipped up into a frenzy by the Daily Mail. Stranger days too, when they'll adopt a slur - 'Gorbals Mick' - dreamed up by the Conservatives to denigrate a Scot from Glasgow. Does the 'S' in SNP stand for 'sheep' by any chance? [/quote] Is Mrs Martin an MP or elected official?
Spoonsy wrote:
Stop Press: MP claims expenses he's entitles to! Oh, the horror .... Strange days indeed, when 'Scotland's Champions' - the SNP cybernats - can be whipped up into a frenzy by the Daily Mail. Stranger days too, when they'll adopt a slur - 'Gorbals Mick' - dreamed up by the Conservatives to denigrate a Scot from Glasgow. Does the 'S' in SNP stand for 'sheep' by any chance?
Is Mrs Martin an MP or elected official?
Posted by: Jock Politicaljunkie, Glasgow on 12:28pm Tue 26 Feb 08
Haggis & Shortbread,
You have obviously NOT read the background reading I suggested to Exiled Aussie if you think Independence is not coming. Go on have a read - George Alexander, 06:37 & The Glaswegian, 10:16.
Or I can relate it here for you -
Nulab are corrupt and the Scottish People have had it with them.
The Tories are, well tories, and will not be trusted for a generation.
The Libdems are Nulab poodles hoping only for a hung Westmister Parliament and the chance of a rerun of the joke that was the Jack McConnell and Nicol Stephen show.
The SNP, like it or loath it, are playing a blinder in Government. The Scottish People do [italic]not[/italic] regard them as some sort of superheroes [bold]BUT ARE[/bold] taking note of what can be done for our country by a party operating on the simple premiss of doing what is best for [bold]Scotland[/bold] and not for a london based political end.
The backbone of the union has for a long time been the Empire Generation - a bit like my 73 year old father. Labour Party and union (union rep in fact) through and through. My father has now seen that his political beliefs have been betrayed. His loyalty has been taken for granted by a bunch of self serving eejits who do not deserve such benefit.
My father will not vote for the SNP or for independence but he has equally said that he will no longer vote at all. Even though he has had to admit that the SNP are doing great and have confirmed his opinion on Nulab. He is a democrat and will leave it in the hands of those who will live under any such decision.
Both his son and grandson are from younger generations, however, and have questioned the political setup. We have looked at Scotland's lack of control over her affairs and said [italic]this is wrong[/italic] . We have asked why we are run largly from England and yet immediate neighbours like Ireland, Norway & Denmark, are Independent. We have noticed that it is Scotland that is NOT normal and seek to change our position to that of international normality.
The SNP IS winning the arguement for Independence. It is a possitive arguement and is nothing like the negative, bile ridden, doom laden invective coming from the Britnats. The more they lie and attempt to scare the People the more obvious it is to the People that the are lying. The steady trend in support for Independence is up, though is must be said the polls are few and far between - I wonder why?
The winning of the arguement is being bolstered by the passing away of the Empire Generation who are the last bastions of support for the Union. That they were so taken for granted by Nulab is shown by the fact that Nulab has totally missed their passing. Guess it must be difficult to see your constituency from the trough. As if [italic]all that[/italic] wasn't bad enough for the unionist cause - we only have to win [bold]once[/bold].
Haggis & Shortbread,
You have obviously NOT read the background reading I suggested to Exiled Aussie if you think Independence is not coming. Go on have a read - George Alexander, 06:37 & The Glaswegian, 10:16.
Or I can relate it here for you -
Nulab are corrupt and the Scottish People have had it with them.
The Tories are, well tories, and will not be trusted for a generation.
The Libdems are Nulab poodles hoping only for a hung Westmister Parliament and the chance of a rerun of the joke that was the Jack McConnell and Nicol Stephen show.
The SNP, like it or loath it, are playing a blinder in Government. The Scottish People do
not regard them as some sort of superheroes
BUT ARE taking note of what can be done for our country by a party operating on the simple premiss of doing what is best for
Scotland and not for a london based political end.
The backbone of the union has for a long time been the Empire Generation - a bit like my 73 year old father. Labour Party and union (union rep in fact) through and through. My father has now seen that his political beliefs have been betrayed. His loyalty has been taken for granted by a bunch of self serving eejits who do not deserve such benefit.
My father will not vote for the SNP or for independence but he has equally said that he will no longer vote at all. Even though he has had to admit that the SNP are doing great and have confirmed his opinion on Nulab. He is a democrat and will leave it in the hands of those who will live under any such decision.
Both his son and grandson are from younger generations, however, and have questioned the political setup. We have looked at Scotland's lack of control over her affairs and said
this is wrong . We have asked why we are run largly from England and yet immediate neighbours like Ireland, Norway & Denmark, are Independent. We have noticed that it is Scotland that is NOT normal and seek to change our position to that of international normality.
The SNP IS winning the arguement for Independence. It is a possitive arguement and is nothing like the negative, bile ridden, doom laden invective coming from the Britnats. The more they lie and attempt to scare the People the more obvious it is to the People that the are lying. The steady trend in support for Independence is up, though is must be said the polls are few and far between - I wonder why?
The winning of the arguement is being bolstered by the passing away of the Empire Generation who are the last bastions of support for the Union. That they were so taken for granted by Nulab is shown by the fact that Nulab has totally missed their passing. Guess it must be difficult to see your constituency from the trough. As if
all that wasn't bad enough for the unionist cause - we only have to win
once.
Posted by: sam, greenock on 12:48pm Tue 26 Feb 08
[quote][bold]Haggis & Shortbread[/bold] wrote:
Independence is on it's way? When exactly? Dream on nats. This is as good as it gets for you. Running a DEVOLVED government within the UK. is the most you will ever get. Instead of the usual backslapping, try and work out the reasons why you would lose an independence referendum any time in the near future. Here's a clue - not enough people in Scotland would vote for it, that's why. So instead of constantly slagging of labour, try and convince the rest of us why independence is a good idea. Also, we also don't like being told that we are less Scottish than you because we're not nats. Is everyone who goes to Hampden or Murrayfield as proud Scots an SNP supporter? You're not winning the argument.[/quote] You sound as if your being told what to say by your over-dominant wife, is she engerlish by any chance.
You sound as if you lived in engerland for a number of years, were you some sort of token scot for them?
Haggis & Shortbread wrote:
Independence is on it's way? When exactly? Dream on nats. This is as good as it gets for you. Running a DEVOLVED government within the UK. is the most you will ever get. Instead of the usual backslapping, try and work out the reasons why you would lose an independence referendum any time in the near future. Here's a clue - not enough people in Scotland would vote for it, that's why. So instead of constantly slagging of labour, try and convince the rest of us why independence is a good idea. Also, we also don't like being told that we are less Scottish than you because we're not nats. Is everyone who goes to Hampden or Murrayfield as proud Scots an SNP supporter? You're not winning the argument.
You sound as if your being told what to say by your over-dominant wife, is she engerlish by any chance.
You sound as if you lived in engerland for a number of years, were you some sort of token scot for them?
Posted by: Melanthios on 12:56pm Tue 26 Feb 08
[quote][bold]Exiled Aussie[/bold] wrote:
[quote][bold]Alex Porter[/bold] wrote:
Wasn't 'Gorbal's Mick' meant to be rhyming slang anyway? Robbed the people and got away with it and so, relieved that the gravey train would roll on regardless, Labour cheered out 'hear hear'. And vulnerable 2 year old leapt with joy. [/quote] Lets start with the "Gorbals Mick" crack.
The Speaker nebver lived ín that part of the City and the term is ib=nrencded as another slight diorected at the man - and also to the good folk of Gorbals by insinuation.
As for the "gravey train" (sic) what about dosh slung at a politiical party (leastways so it pretends) by a tax exile who now says that "he would [bold]even[/bold] think about rerurning to Scotland if it got independance".
Big deal and a threat that should ensure that the [bold]TARTAN TORIES[/bold] are routed next time around ![/quote] Here you go again. You can't find an argument so you take to task a spelling error (gravey). Lets look at your bumf.
ib=nrencded ???
diorected ???
rerurning to Scotland ???
independance ???
Pathetic. Argue your corner by all means, but don't look for the cheap shot - especially if you're not too hot on the spelling & grammar front yourself.
Exiled Aussie wrote:
Alex Porter wrote:
Wasn't 'Gorbal's Mick' meant to be rhyming slang anyway? Robbed the people and got away with it and so, relieved that the gravey train would roll on regardless, Labour cheered out 'hear hear'. And vulnerable 2 year old leapt with joy.
Lets start with the "Gorbals Mick" crack.
The Speaker nebver lived ín that part of the City and the term is ib=nrencded as another slight diorected at the man - and also to the good folk of Gorbals by insinuation.
As for the "gravey train" (sic) what about dosh slung at a politiical party (leastways so it pretends) by a tax exile who now says that "he would even think about rerurning to Scotland if it got independance".
Big deal and a threat that should ensure that the TARTAN TORIES are routed next time around !
Here you go again. You can't find an argument so you take to task a spelling error (gravey). Lets look at your bumf.
ib=nrencded ???
diorected ???
rerurning to Scotland ???
independance ???
Pathetic. Argue yo
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