
Campaign to ban the ‘teen tormentor’ from Scotland
A campaign to ban "ultrasonic weapons" used to disperse children from street corners was launched yesterday, backed by Scotland's Commissioner for Children and Young People.
Kathleen Marshall joined civil liberties campaigners in calling for a ban on the Mosquito - a gadget which annoys young people by emitting a high-pitched sound. The so-called "teen tormentor" exploits young people's ability to hear very high frequencies, a power which declines once they reach their 20s.
The Children's Commissioner is backing the "Buzz Off" campaign, launched yesterday by her counterpart
in England, Professor Sir Al
Aynsley-Green.
Campaigners say an estimated 3500 devices are in use in England to disperse children and young people in areas such as parks, shopping centres and around shops.
In Scotland, they are known to have been used in parts of Aberdeenshire, Glasgow, Renfrewshire and Fife. Young people are being asked to contact the campaign and report where Mosquitos are in use.
Ms Marshall said: "The teen tormentor' or teen repellent' is an ultrasonic weapon used against our children and young people indiscriminately. Its use would not be tolerated for any other section of our society. Young people have a right to assemble and socialise without being treated as criminals. There needs to be an outright ban on this device which affects not only teenagers, but also young children, babies and young people with disabilities."
John Loughton, Chair of Scottish Youth Parliament and Big Brother Celebrity Hijack winner, said: "If ever there was a device which highlighted the terrible way in which young people are treated in society then this is it."
The Mosquito, invented by Howard Stapleton of Merthyr Tydfil, reached the market in 2005. It has a range of between 15 and 20 metres, and makers claim teenagers usually move away from the area within eight to 10 minutes. Alternative deterrents include the so-called "Manilow Method", where opera, classical or unfashionable pop music is played.
Mr Stapleton said: "People talk about infringing human rights but what about the human rights of the shopkeeper who is seeing his business collapse because groups of unruly teenagers are driving away his customers?"
Work towards a ban of its use in Scotland has been under way since last year, when Ms Marshall learned that Grampian Police were planning to install a Mosquito device in Banff but eventually decided against it. Renfrewshire Council also tested the device but decided against its permanent use.
Two primary schools in Aberdeenshire - Lochpots School in Fraserburgh and Newburgh Mathers School - installed them to stop children climbing on school roofs, but both devices are believed to have been deactivated.
In Glasgow, a device is active at a Ladbrokes betting shop in Dennistoun, Glasgow. One local youth told the BBC: "It gives you a pain in your ears."
Local resident Anne Moore, 58, said: "The kids are a menace. They come up to my son and bother him. If this machine is chasing them away, then I think it's a good thing."
A Ladbrokes spokesman said: "We installed the Mosquito on police advice. We use it only when deemed appropriate." However, a spokesman for the Association of Chief Police Officers in Scotland said: "Mosquitos ... are not the way to go. There are other ways of attending to young people and problems in the community."
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Posted by: Kiera Hardie on 12:38am Wed 13 Feb 08
Well I must say I sympathise for the young people of Dennistoun, facing the removal of their human right to hang about outside the bookie's. OK, some fascists might say that they have no business hanging around b the front door of the betting shop, and others mght suggest they move the twenty yards or so that will take them ot of the range of this infernal device, but what do they know of the pure hell that is the life of a teenager in modern Scotland? Nothing. That bloke off Big Brother and the Scottish Youth Parliament was right when he said [quote]"If ever there was a device which highlighted the terrible way in which young people are treated in society then this is it."[/quote]
Well I must say I sympathise for the young people of Dennistoun, facing the removal of their human right to hang about outside the bookie's. OK, some fascists might say that they have no business hanging around b the front door of the betting shop, and others mght suggest they move the twenty yards or so that will take them ot of the range of this infernal device, but what do they know of the pure hell that is the life of a teenager in modern Scotland? Nothing. That bloke off Big Brother and the Scottish Youth Parliament was right when he said
"If ever there was a device which highlighted the terrible way in which young people are treated in society then this is it."
Posted by: Kiera Hardie on 12:44am Wed 13 Feb 08
And the link to the Buzz Off campaign doesn't work.
And the link to the Buzz Off campaign doesn't work.
Posted by: W Smith, Middle East on 5:33am Wed 13 Feb 08
Once again the civil liberties drama queens, a very small minority, get the 'oxygen' of publicitiy from the Labour leaning Scottish media giving them a profile beyond their few supporters in Scotland.
Why didn't the editor include a comment from the greens, gays, muslims, and transgender Lib Dems while we're at it!
For those of you who don't fit in to any of the above minorities could you please shut up and pay your taxes - like a good 'citizen'.
Once again the civil liberties drama queens, a very small minority, get the 'oxygen' of publicitiy from the Labour leaning Scottish media giving them a profile beyond their few supporters in Scotland.
Why didn't the editor include a comment from the greens, gays, muslims, and transgender Lib Dems while we're at it!
For those of you who don't fit in to any of the above minorities could you please shut up and pay your taxes - like a good 'citizen'.
Posted by: gmac, Germany on 7:46am Wed 13 Feb 08
These devices are put in place to deter teenagers from leutering around areas which are adversely affected by the threat posed by the presence of said teenagers. The law will not allow said teenagers to be prosecuted if they assault adults, vandalise property or abuse members of the public. Retail outlets are in business to sell goods to the public. The public are dissuaded from using said retail outlets, by the very presence of threatening teenage groups, due to the risk s mentioned. If the retail outlets shut down through lack of business, as a direct result of the presence of threatening teenagers scaring away potential custom, there will be no need for the ultrasonic weapons to deter teenagers from leutering outside empty buildings.
These devices are put in place to deter teenagers from leutering around areas which are adversely affected by the threat posed by the presence of said teenagers. The law will not allow said teenagers to be prosecuted if they assault adults, vandalise property or abuse members of the public. Retail outlets are in business to sell goods to the public. The public are dissuaded from using said retail outlets, by the very presence of threatening teenage groups, due to the risk s mentioned. If the retail outlets shut down through lack of business, as a direct result of the presence of threatening teenagers scaring away potential custom, there will be no need for the ultrasonic weapons to deter teenagers from leutering outside empty buildings.
Posted by: fatzdomingo, Glasgow on 8:05am Wed 13 Feb 08
This woman has never had an original thought in her life. Why don't we save a packet, shut down her useless and pointless office and just let the guy down south speak for weans everywhere?
This woman has never had an original thought in her life. Why don't we save a packet, shut down her useless and pointless office and just let the guy down south speak for weans everywhere?
Posted by: Johnny Mac, Here on 8:30am Wed 13 Feb 08
Does anyone know what a "Commissioner for Children and Young People" does? why we need it? what such a person might be paid? Sounds suspiciously to me like another one of those quangos so in need of some dry straw and a match.
Good also to hear the thoughts of the police on the matter - "there are other ways of attending to young people and problems in the community". Well done Hercule, now can you explain what those might be?
Devices such as this, one would imagine, would be deemed last resort practices. To hear Ms Marshall speak, you would think they were part of some sinister plan to brain damage Shellsuit Boabs everywhere (as if that is required). However, I would imagine the mosquito appears after the usual pattern of events - events pretty familiar to many in Scotland...youths gather, drink some 'vin tonique', get abusive and noisy, refuse to move on, problem escalates into vandalism, potentially physical assault or damage to property. Police are called, but do absolutely hee-haw. Shop-keeper, school janitor or whomever gets mightily hacked off, and sees this device as a way of extracting revenge.
I don't think this is the answer, but until we start having mandatory curfews for those underage children who infest part of our cities, or we have a return to old-style policing, or we somehow shock the parents of these twits into a world of social responsibility, people are entitled to take whatever measures work.
No doubt Ms Marshall will trot out the usual "its boredom, its lack of facilities, its society's fault". Never once will she encourage these miscreants to respect the feelings of others. Oh no, not allowed to introduce personal responsibility as a concept are you?
Does anyone know what a "Commissioner for Children and Young People" does? why we need it? what such a person might be paid? Sounds suspiciously to me like another one of those quangos so in need of some dry straw and a match.
Good also to hear the thoughts of the police on the matter - "there are other ways of attending to young people and problems in the community". Well done Hercule, now can you explain what those might be?
Devices such as this, one would imagine, would be deemed last resort practices. To hear Ms Marshall speak, you would think they were part of some sinister plan to brain damage Shellsuit Boabs everywhere (as if that is required). However, I would imagine the mosquito appears after the usual pattern of events - events pretty familiar to many in Scotland...youths gather, drink some 'vin tonique', get abusive and noisy, refuse to move on, problem escalates into vandalism, potentially physical assault or damage to property. Police are called, but do absolutely hee-haw. Shop-keeper, school janitor or whomever gets mightily hacked off, and sees this device as a way of extracting revenge.
I don't think this is the answer, but until we start having mandatory curfews for those underage children who infest part of our cities, or we have a return to old-style policing, or we somehow shock the parents of these twits into a world of social responsibility, people are entitled to take whatever measures work.
No doubt Ms Marshall will trot out the usual "its boredom, its lack of facilities, its society's fault". Never once will she encourage these miscreants to respect the feelings of others. Oh no, not allowed to introduce personal responsibility as a concept are you?
Posted by: Meep, Shawlands on 9:23am Wed 13 Feb 08
Kathleen Marshall is really out of step with public opinion. I know lots pf people who want this device for thier shops and homes. Are they breaking the law? No, i dont think so. If Marshall pshes this , we will need to start a campaign to satna outside her house late at night drinking alcohol, urinating in her garden and playing REALLY loud music. Within one week she will be begging for a Mosquito. Really silly woman.
Kathleen Marshall is really out of step with public opinion. I know lots pf people who want this device for thier shops and homes. Are they breaking the law? No, i dont think so. If Marshall pshes this , we will need to start a campaign to satna outside her house late at night drinking alcohol, urinating in her garden and playing REALLY loud music. Within one week she will be begging for a Mosquito. Really silly woman.
Posted by: bairn, falkirk on 9:42am Wed 13 Feb 08
its not the device that causes the problem there would be no need of such a device if parents and police kept dis-orderly teens from
causing a nuisance to others in society long live the mosquito and if
that witless kathleen marshall wants to see the other side of her distorted view of teens pay a visit to my area
its not the device that causes the problem there would be no need of such a device if parents and police kept dis-orderly teens from
causing a nuisance to others in society long live the mosquito and if
that witless kathleen marshall wants to see the other side of her distorted view of teens pay a visit to my area
Posted by: Mr T, The A-team van on 9:47am Wed 13 Feb 08
Dear or dear, the knee-jerk Daily Mail brigade are out in force today. Anyone remember the old adage of "two wrongs don't make a right"?
I don't think Kathleen Marshall or anyone else is saying that teenagers should be encouraged to cause grief to law-abiding citizens. However using a device that is tantamount to assault perhaps isn't the answer. Much as many of us would like to take a baseball bat to them in order to get them to disperse, we don't do that because we recognise that a violent reaction is the wrong way to go. Just because there is now a device that allows us to cause violence on people's eardrums at the push of a button doesn't make it right.
And before anyone asks, no - I don't have the answer to ned behaviour. But it isn't this. And I doubt that anyone else on this forum has the answer or else you would have better things to do with your time than be posting on here.
Dear or dear, the knee-jerk Daily Mail brigade are out in force today. Anyone remember the old adage of "two wrongs don't make a right"?
I don't think Kathleen Marshall or anyone else is saying that teenagers should be encouraged to cause grief to law-abiding citizens. However using a device that is tantamount to assault perhaps isn't the answer. Much as many of us would like to take a baseball bat to them in order to get them to disperse, we don't do that because we recognise that a violent reaction is the wrong way to go. Just because there is now a device that allows us to cause violence on people's eardrums at the push of a button doesn't make it right.
And before anyone asks, no - I don't have the answer to ned behaviour. But it isn't this. And I doubt that anyone else on this forum has the answer or else you would have better things to do with your time than be posting on here.
Posted by: angiebobs, midgie on 9:59am Wed 13 Feb 08
young people are human beings NOT vermin and therefore should not be treated as such.
So nice to see all the 'reformed' [italic]teenagers[/italic] posting as responsible citizens on this site - just shows there is hope for dennistoun youth!
One day they too will no longer be teenagers and can happily call for the removal of human rights from young people.
young people are human beings NOT vermin and therefore should not be treated as such.
So nice to see all the 'reformed'
teenagers posting as responsible citizens on this site - just shows there is hope for dennistoun youth!
One day they too will no longer be teenagers and can happily call for the removal of human rights from young people.
Posted by: angiebobs, busby on 10:00am Wed 13 Feb 08
Meep
Isnt Shawlnads really going downhill! Time to move to Netherlee I think.
Meep
Isnt Shawlnads really going downhill! Time to move to Netherlee I think.
Posted by: clayton-moore on 10:12am Wed 13 Feb 08
Where can I buy one, and, is there a portable model that will work on public transport?
Where can I buy one, and, is there a portable model that will work on public transport?
Posted by: pete, Bearsden on 10:32am Wed 13 Feb 08
This buzzer is a great idea. Can we please get rid of this stupid idiotic woman Kathleen Marshall - don't recollect her being voted into office? Anything that can disperse gangs of young neds is very welcome. Amazing how the do-gooding "human rights" vocal minority start squealing when anything like this comes along. Seems like it's the law-abiding majority who have no "human rights" whatsoever.
This buzzer is a great idea. Can we please get rid of this stupid idiotic woman Kathleen Marshall - don't recollect her being voted into office? Anything that can disperse gangs of young neds is very welcome. Amazing how the do-gooding "human rights" vocal minority start squealing when anything like this comes along. Seems like it's the law-abiding majority who have no "human rights" whatsoever.
Posted by: sociowoman, Dundee on 10:41am Wed 13 Feb 08
People are extremely foolish.
Do the people who advocate this noise machine not realize that babies will hear it? They do hear it.
The sooner someone takes these local authorities to court the better. Its tantamount to abusing innocent babies and INNOCENT children - to say otherwise is beyond belief. How ridiculous can people get?
Disperse gangs of neds? WHAT about babies and decent children in the area? WHAT about them? AGAIN, WHAT ABOUT THEM?
People are extremely foolish.
Do the people who advocate this noise machine not realize that babies will hear it? They do hear it.
The sooner someone takes these local authorities to court the better. Its tantamount to abusing innocent babies and INNOCENT children - to say otherwise is beyond belief. How ridiculous can people get?
Disperse gangs of neds? WHAT about babies and decent children in the area? WHAT about them? AGAIN, WHAT ABOUT THEM?
Posted by: sociowoman, Dundee on 10:43am Wed 13 Feb 08
Neds? What does that mean?
We were all young.
Are all our young "neds"?
People who use these terms are doing so in a scatter bomb way. They are demonising our young. These people are vomit inducing trash bags. They are sperm bags these people.
Neds? What does that mean?
We were all young.
Are all our young "neds"?
People who use these terms are doing so in a scatter bomb way. They are demonising our young. These people are vomit inducing trash bags. They are sperm bags these people.
Posted by: sociowoman, Dundee on 10:45am Wed 13 Feb 08
It seems EASY and VERY cowardly to attack weans eh? These trash pots really turn my stomach.
It seems EASY and VERY cowardly to attack weans eh? These trash pots really turn my stomach.
Posted by: pete, Bearsden on 11:21am Wed 13 Feb 08
sociowoman - you are an idiot - you come from Dundee too - hmmm that just about sums it up.
sociowoman - you are an idiot - you come from Dundee too - hmmm that just about sums it up.
Posted by: Eh?, Glasgow on 12:32pm Wed 13 Feb 08
Are the weans really any worse than when I and the above posters were kids. I hung around street corners, i even played football on the grass despite the sign saying otherwise. We may have caused some people bother by being eh...teenagers. These measures to demonise all youth is just our generation forgetting that we were young and the same social ills were prevalent in our day. there was no halycon days gone by when teenagers were all very well behaved and polite. To emphasise the point Socrates or it may have been aristotle write that teh youth of today are wild and unruly and threaten civilisation ... seems the same arguments we hear today were being trotted out 3000 years ago. I'm sure there was even an ancient greek version of Meep complaining about peeing in gardens and how hotels only lead to sex tourism ...but that's another issue haha
These mosquito installations are an infringement on anyone under 20 civil liberties. My kids who are 10 and 3 and well behaved will also be affected by these despite teh fact they are not causing a perceived nuisance....perhaps they are to some.
If you want teenagers off the streets ttry campaigning for greater facilities for them and give them things to do...these are the people who'll be paying your pension soon...and they may well rememebr the way we treated them and would be within their rights to claim that you treated us like scum back in the day...fund your own pension!
Are the weans really any worse than when I and the above posters were kids. I hung around street corners, i even played football on the grass despite the sign saying otherwise. We may have caused some people bother by being eh...teenagers. These measures to demonise all youth is just our generation forgetting that we were young and the same social ills were prevalent in our day. there was no halycon days gone by when teenagers were all very well behaved and polite. To emphasise the point Socrates or it may have been aristotle write that teh youth of today are wild and unruly and threaten civilisation ... seems the same arguments we hear today were being trotted out 3000 years ago. I'm sure there was even an ancient greek version of Meep complaining about peeing in gardens and how hotels only lead to sex tourism ...but that's another issue haha
These mosquito installations are an infringement on anyone under 20 civil liberties. My kids who are 10 and 3 and well behaved will also be affected by these despite teh fact they are not causing a perceived nuisance....perhaps they are to some.
If you want teenagers off the streets ttry campaigning for greater facilities for them and give them things to do...these are the people who'll be paying your pension soon...and they may well rememebr the way we treated them and would be within their rights to claim that you treated us like scum back in the day...fund your own pension!
Posted by: clayton-moore on 12:46pm Wed 13 Feb 08
sociowoman
Yes, we were all young once, and had to do what we were told, or sanctions were taken against us.
There were places we were allowed to hang out and things we were allowed to do and places and things we weren't allowed, if we were where we shouldn't have been doing things we shouldn't, then we took the consequences and that was the end of the matter.
It's called learning to grow up.
But then, we didn't have wooly headed social workers, who know nothing of how people really live in the schemes, defending the right to do whatever you want wherever you want.
sociowoman
Yes, we were all young once, and had to do what we were told, or sanctions were taken against us.
There were places we were allowed to hang out and things we were allowed to do and places and things we weren't allowed, if we were where we shouldn't have been doing things we shouldn't, then we took the consequences and that was the end of the matter.
It's called learning to grow up.
But then, we didn't have wooly headed social workers, who know nothing of how people really live in the schemes, defending the right to do whatever you want wherever you want.
Posted by: Old school, Ayrshire on 12:55pm Wed 13 Feb 08
Do-gooders out again defending the 'poor little children', thank God their rantings are but a annoying murmur in the sensible world. I see Ms Chakrabati & Liberty have jumped on the bandwagon as usual, dont suppose she/they are around many corner shops etc. at night and have to suffer what the rest of us put have to put up with.
I think the boffins should be trying to find a more powerful model of this device to get them to move off more quickly.
As to 'innocent kids' being affected, they would not be if they did not loiter around where the device has been installed.
Do-gooders out again defending the 'poor little children', thank God their rantings are but a annoying murmur in the sensible world. I see Ms Chakrabati & Liberty have jumped on the bandwagon as usual, dont suppose she/they are around many corner shops etc. at night and have to suffer what the rest of us put have to put up with.
I think the boffins should be trying to find a more powerful model of this device to get them to move off more quickly.
As to 'innocent kids' being affected, they would not be if they did not loiter around where the device has been installed.
Posted by: ellsbells, renfrewshire on 1:21pm Wed 13 Feb 08
Aww the poor wee demented teenagers! How awful this horrible noise must be for them. How very dare anyone do such a thing to those wee guys!
Its about time people were allowed to protect themselves and their property from the gangs of youths who hang around shops,imtimidating people going about their normal business,not to mention defacing and destroying property. Okay I hear you say what about the decent youth ..I say if you are young, decent and law abiding,you move on and probably wouldnt be hanging around shops .
LONG MAY THEY CONYINUE TO EMIT !!
Aww the poor wee demented teenagers! How awful this horrible noise must be for them. How very dare anyone do such a thing to those wee guys!
Its about time people were allowed to protect themselves and their property from the gangs of youths who hang around shops,imtimidating people going about their normal business,not to mention defacing and destroying property. Okay I hear you say what about the decent youth ..I say if you are young, decent and law abiding,you move on and probably wouldnt be hanging around shops .
LONG MAY THEY CONYINUE TO EMIT !!
Posted by: Malcolm Baird on 3:22pm Wed 13 Feb 08
Years ago it was discovered that if the PA system played classical music (Mozart etc.) it acted as a powerful discouragement to young people hanging around. Worth a try?
Years ago it was discovered that if the PA system played classical music (Mozart etc.) it acted as a powerful discouragement to young people hanging around. Worth a try?
Posted by: Los Angeles, Edinburgh on 4:07pm Wed 13 Feb 08
[bold]"A teen tormentor"?![/bold]
I am trying to think which Labour party official has the time to sit in the back of a van and scream their heads off to annoy kids.
Didn't know the d*mn things exit - tormenters, not teens - used by the police. Well, everybody on here advocating their use can expect an adult version to appear soon, and I don't mean Wendy Alexander.
When the Granny Tormenter arrives the same moaners above will squeal in pain, protesting about a infingement of civil liberties.
The device is straight out of 1984 - a bloody electronic cattle prod!
Get a grip on your society.
I
"A teen tormentor"?!
I am trying to think which Labour party official has the time to sit in the back of a van and scream their heads off to annoy kids.
Didn't know the d*mn things exit - tormenters, not teens - used by the police. Well, everybody on here advocating their use can expect an adult version to appear soon, and I don't mean Wendy Alexander.
When the Granny Tormenter arrives the same moaners above will squeal in pain, protesting about a infingement of civil liberties.
The device is straight out of 1984 - a bloody electronic cattle prod!
Get a grip on your society.
I
Posted by: Truthseeker, Lanarkshire on 5:52pm Wed 13 Feb 08
Mr T from the A-Team van – I think that Hannibal would be delighted with this particular gadget. Don’t recall you complaining in the series, just as long as no-one was killed. Of course, you never were considered to be the brains of the outfit – only there for the brawn?? Sorry, you were good with an oxy-acetylene torch!
As for sociowoman, Dundee – what babies and decent children are going to be hanging around outside shops and decent people’s homes, foul-mouthing decent people, and generally acting in alcohol-inspired ways? [bold]Perhaps if Gary Newlove had been in possession of such a device, a woman would not now be widowed, and four decent children would not be fatherless![/bold] The trendy, politically-correct, left-wing, do-gooders have already brought this once-proud nation to its knees. It’s time for the ordinary people to stand up, speak up, and insist that these social engineers shut up.
Mr T from the A-Team van – I think that Hannibal would be delighted with this particular gadget. Don’t recall you complaining in the series, just as long as no-one was killed. Of course, you never were considered to be the brains of the outfit – only there for the brawn?? Sorry, you were good with an oxy-acetylene torch!
As for sociowoman, Dundee – what babies and decent children are going to be hanging around outside shops and decent people’s homes, foul-mouthing decent people, and generally acting in alcohol-inspired ways?
Perhaps if Gary Newlove had been in possession of such a device, a woman would not now be widowed, and four decent children would not be fatherless! The trendy, politically-correct, left-wing, do-gooders have already brought this once-proud nation to its knees. It’s time for the ordinary people to stand up, speak up, and insist that these social engineers shut up.
Posted by: Old school, Ayrshire on 6:05pm Wed 13 Feb 08
Well said Trueseeker, these devices should be issued ffor ree to anyone with the 'young social misfit' problem around their property.
These 'social engineers ' as you call them are a blight on society, their kid glove treatment of the feral youth problem fails at every turn and always will.
Well said Trueseeker, these devices should be issued ffor ree to anyone with the 'young social misfit' problem around their property.
These 'social engineers ' as you call them are a blight on society, their kid glove treatment of the feral youth problem fails at every turn and always will.
Posted by: Saul Tyre, Germany on 6:13pm Wed 13 Feb 08
Back in the seventties we had several meetings on how to prevent gangs of youths gathering on the streets of some of Glasgow's eastern housing schemes. Using Mozart was one suggestion but the hardliners got their way and so it was decided to play the songs of Glen Daly.
The streets were soon emptied but so were the houses. It was like a ghost town.
Back in the seventties we had several meetings on how to prevent gangs of youths gathering on the streets of some of Glasgow's eastern housing schemes. Using Mozart was one suggestion but the hardliners got their way and so it was decided to play the songs of Glen Daly.
The streets were soon emptied but so were the houses. It was like a ghost town.
Posted by: Los Angeles, Edinburgh on 6:15pm Wed 13 Feb 08
Truthseeker[quote]The trendy, politically-correct, left-wing, do-gooders have already brought this once-proud nation to its knees.[/quote] And here's me thinking crap like that is spineless.
"Truthseeker" - don't you mean "sunseeker"?
Truthseeker
The trendy, politically-correct, left-wing, do-gooders have already brought this once-proud nation to its knees.
And here's me thinking crap like that is spineless.
"Truthseeker" - don't you mean "sunseeker"?
Posted by: Blueliner, Raintown on 7:13pm Wed 13 Feb 08
Tuesday : 3 teenagers jailed for life for kicking a man to death for having the audacity for challenging them when they vandalise his wife's car.
Wednesday: Device for harmlesly dispersing unruly gangs branded a contavention of human rights...
Says it all really - Take it the local young team don't knock about down the shops in Kathleen Marshall and Sir Al Aynsley-Green's scheme... Thought not.
Tuesday : 3 teenagers jailed for life for kicking a man to death for having the audacity for challenging them when they vandalise his wife's car.
Wednesday: Device for harmlesly dispersing unruly gangs branded a contavention of human rights...
Says it all really - Take it the local young team don't knock about down the shops in Kathleen Marshall and Sir Al Aynsley-Green's scheme... Thought not.
Posted by: Gem, Stirling on 7:25pm Wed 13 Feb 08
So we're talking about some young people who hang about street corners or outside shops causing a disturbance. What about those teenagers who have been sent to the shop because Mum's run out of some ingredient for the dinner, or the young person at the age of 18, 19, 20 who has moved out of home and needs to go collect something from the shops themselves. There's more of those young people out there than the ones making a nuiscance and its not fair to people like me who, despite being 21, can still hear the damned things. I've lived myself for over 4 years, and am as honest and upright a citizen as anyone else posting in this forum. My rights are being discriminated against and that is wrong!
So we're talking about some young people who hang about street corners or outside shops causing a disturbance. What about those teenagers who have been sent to the shop because Mum's run out of some ingredient for the dinner, or the young person at the age of 18, 19, 20 who has moved out of home and needs to go collect something from the shops themselves. There's more of those young people out there than the ones making a nuiscance and its not fair to people like me who, despite being 21, can still hear the damned things. I've lived myself for over 4 years, and am as honest and upright a citizen as anyone else posting in this forum. My rights are being discriminated against and that is wrong!
Posted by: George Laird, Glasgow on 7:25pm Wed 13 Feb 08
Dear All
Kathleen Marshall appointed by New Labour to a guango on about circa £70,000 a year.
Another candidate to lose her cushy guango feather nest.
I don't even bother reading her tripe.
Is she seriously advocating the right of ned to hang around and harass?
If neds were hanging round her house she would be straight on to the Police.
Not very bright is she, trying to justify her existance by talking rubbish.
Yours sincerely
George Laird
The Campaign for Human Rights at Glasgow University
Dear All
Kathleen Marshall appointed by New Labour to a guango on about circa £70,000 a year.
Another candidate to lose her cushy guango feather nest.
I don't even bother reading her tripe.
Is she seriously advocating the right of ned to hang around and harass?
If neds were hanging round her house she would be straight on to the Police.
Not very bright is she, trying to justify her existance by talking rubbish.
Yours sincerely
George Laird
The Campaign for Human Rights at Glasgow University
Posted by: Blueliner, Raintown on 7:34pm Wed 13 Feb 08
[quote][bold]Gem[/bold] wrote:
So we're talking about some young people who hang about street corners or outside shops causing a disturbance. What about those teenagers who have been sent to the shop because Mum's run out of some ingredient for the dinner, or the young person at the age of 18, 19, 20 who has moved out of home and needs to go collect something from the shops themselves. There's more of those young people out there than the ones making a nuiscance and its not fair to people like me who, despite being 21, can still hear the damned things. I've lived myself for over 4 years, and am as honest and upright a citizen as anyone else posting in this forum. My rights are being discriminated against and that is wrong![/quote] Hallo Gem,
How does hearing a harmless noise you don't like amount to your "rights being discriminated against"(sic)? It may be annoying for the short time you are exposed to it, but no more than some music you don't like. Some people are terrified to go to their local shop and rightly so due to the behaviour of a minority of young people. Maybe you and others should be campaigning for better behaviour by young people so these devices wouldn't be needed? Or for the rights of everyone to live lives free from initmidation. The issue here is the behaviour that drives the demand for this technology, not the technology itself.
Gem wrote:
So we're talking about some young people who hang about street corners or outside shops causing a disturbance. What about those teenagers who have been sent to the shop because Mum's run out of some ingredient for the dinner, or the young person at the age of 18, 19, 20 who has moved out of home and needs to go collect something from the shops themselves. There's more of those young people out there than the ones making a nuiscance and its not fair to people like me who, despite being 21, can still hear the damned things. I've lived myself for over 4 years, and am as honest and upright a citizen as anyone else posting in this forum. My rights are being discriminated against and that is wrong!
Hallo Gem,
How does hearing a harmless noise you don't like amount to your "rights being discriminated against"(sic)? It may be annoying for the short time you are exposed to it, but no more than some music you don't like. Some people are terrified to go to their local shop and rightly so due to the behaviour of a minority of young people. Maybe you and others should be campaigning for better behaviour by young people so these devices wouldn't be needed? Or for the rights of everyone to live lives free from initmidation. The issue here is the behaviour that drives the demand for this technology, not the technology itself.
Posted by: Truthseeker, Lanarkshire on 8:04pm Wed 13 Feb 08
[quote][bold]Los Angeles[/bold] wrote:
Truthseeker[quote]The trendy, politically-correct, left-wing, do-gooders have already brought this once-proud nation to its knees.[/quote] And here's me thinking crap like that is spineless. "Truthseeker" - don't you mean "sunseeker"? [/quote] I've been to Los Angeles (something of a misnomer!!). Has LA ever had to deal with these spineless bullies who seem to take delight in making other people's lives a misery? I refer, once again, to the late Gary Newlove. Would LA like to speak, face-to-face, with the widow and the fatherless children, and tell them that the (now-convicted) yobs who senselessly kicked their husband/father to death, were really misunderstood, sweet and wonderful children, who were in their drunken state because they had nothing positively constructive to do?
Los Angeles wrote:
TruthseekerThe trendy, politically-correct, left-wing, do-gooders have already brought this once-proud nation to its knees.
And here's me thinking crap like that is spineless. "Truthseeker" - don't you mean "sunseeker"?
I've been to Los Angeles (something of a misnomer!!). Has LA ever had to deal with these spineless bullies who seem to take delight in making other people's lives a misery? I refer, once again, to the late Gary Newlove. Would LA like to speak, face-to-face, with the widow and the fatherless children, and tell them that the (now-convicted) yobs who senselessly kicked their husband/father to death, were really misunderstood, sweet and wonderful children, who were in their drunken state because they had nothing positively constructive to do?
Posted by: ArchieWW, Helensburgh on 8:45pm Wed 13 Feb 08
Blueliner talks such common sense. I can hardly believe that there are people out there who think that the human rights of these louts is more important than the human rights of the many decent people who have to tolerate their foul language, mess and threatening behaviour.
Blueliner talks such common sense. I can hardly believe that there are people out there who think that the human rights of these louts is more important than the human rights of the many decent people who have to tolerate their foul language, mess and threatening behaviour.
Posted by: Los Angeles, Edinburgh on 10:21pm Wed 13 Feb 08
Truthseeker[quote]Has LA ever had to deal with these spineless bullies who seem to take delight in making other people's lives a misery?[/quote] Yes. On many occasions.
On one particular occasion it was an eighteen-year old drunk and streesed soldier on a train London to Edinburgh. He was fresh from a long spell in troubled Northern Ireland and had seen killing.
The carraige was crowded and he was accompanied by three other soldiers. He full of beer and bravura. He was waving a can of beer in one hand and a [italic]pistol[/italic] in the other. It was a gun he had stolen from a cache of Provo weapons. Ticket inspector and passengers were terrified.
It took me almost an hour and a shared packet of cigarettes (I'm a non-smoker) to calm and sweet talk him, until I was able to take the pistol from him.
I sat next to him talking about his experiences until the train arrived at York and the police took him away for questioning. It was only then I discovered the pistol was not loaded.
That incident aside, I did not say youth vandalism and disrespect for elders was not a problem. It is, though in inner city pockets. I take issue with a society obsessed with materialsm particularly goods aimed at youth, violence as entertainment and economic policy, parental lack of responsibility, poor adult example, unemployment, but above all, with Fascist solutions.
And your web moniker of "truthseeker" is a joke.
Truthseeker
Has LA ever had to deal with these spineless bullies who seem to take delight in making other people's lives a misery?
Yes. On many occasions.
On one particular occasion it was an eighteen-year old drunk and streesed soldier on a train London to Edinburgh. He was fresh from a long spell in troubled Northern Ireland and had seen killing.
The carraige was crowded and he was accompanied by three other soldiers. He full of beer and bravura. He was waving a can of beer in one hand and a
pistol in the other. It was a gun he had stolen from a cache of Provo weapons. Ticket inspector and passengers were terrified.
It took me almost an hour and a shared packet of cigarettes (I'm a non-smoker) to calm and sweet talk him, until I was able to take the pistol from him.
I sat next to him talking about his experiences until the train arrived at York and the police took him away for questioning. It was only then I discovered the pistol was not loaded.
That incident aside, I did not say youth vandalism and disrespect for elders was not a problem. It is, though in inner city pockets. I take issue with a society obsessed with materialsm particularly goods aimed at youth, violence as entertainment and economic policy, parental lack of responsibility, poor adult example, unemployment, but above all, with Fascist solutions.
And your web moniker of "truthseeker" is a joke.
Posted by: Truthseeker, Lanarkshire on 10:52pm Wed 13 Feb 08
[quote][bold]Los Angeles[/bold] wrote:
Truthseeker[quote]Has LA ever had to deal with these spineless bullies who seem to take delight in making other people's lives a misery?[/quote] Yes. On many occasions. On one particular occasion it was an eighteen-year old drunk and streesed soldier on a train London to Edinburgh. He was fresh from a long spell in troubled Northern Ireland and had seen killing. The carraige was crowded and he was accompanied by three other soldiers. He full of beer and bravura. He was waving a can of beer in one hand and a [italic]pistol[/italic] in the other. It was a gun he had stolen from a cache of Provo weapons. Ticket inspector and passengers were terrified. It took me almost an hour and a shared packet of cigarettes (I'm a non-smoker) to calm and sweet talk him, until I was able to take the pistol from him. I sat next to him talking about his experiences until the train arrived at York and the police took him away for questioning. It was only then I discovered the pistol was not loaded. That incident aside, I did not say youth vandalism and disrespect for elders was not a problem. It is, though in inner city pockets. I take issue with a society obsessed with materialsm particularly goods aimed at youth, violence as entertainment and economic policy, parental lack of responsibility, poor adult example, unemployment, but above all, with Fascist solutions. And your web moniker of "truthseeker" is a joke. [/quote] A "Los Angeles" from Edinburgh! Smacks of "People in glass houses ..."!! Sorry I won't be able to respond to any response of yours. I'm awaiting a call from the U.S.of A., that will keep me busy for some time. Please be neither offended, nor triumphant!!
Los Angeles wrote:
TruthseekerHas LA ever had to deal with these spineless bullies who seem to take delight in making other people's lives a misery?
Yes. On many occasions. On one particular occasion it was an eighteen-year old drunk and streesed soldier on a train London to Edinburgh. He was fresh from a long spell in troubled Northern Ireland and had seen killing. The carraige was crowded and he was accompanied by three other soldiers. He full of beer and bravura. He was waving a can of beer in one hand and a pistol in the other. It was a gun he had stolen from a cache of Provo weapons. Ticket inspector and passengers were terrified. It took me almost an hour and a shared packet of cigarettes (I'm a non-smoker) to calm and sweet talk him, until I was able to take the pistol from him. I sat next to him talking about his experiences until the train arrived at York and the police took him away for questioning. It was only then I discovered the pistol was not loaded. That incident aside, I did not say youth vandalism and disrespect for elders was not a problem. It is, though in inner city pockets. I take issue with a society obsessed with materialsm particularly goods aimed at youth, violence as entertainment and economic policy, parental lack of responsibility, poor adult example, unemployment, but above all, with Fascist solutions. And your web moniker of "truthseeker" is a joke.
A "Los Angeles" from Edinburgh! Smacks of "People in glass houses ..."!! Sorry I won't be able to respond to any response of yours. I'm awaiting a call from the U.S.of A., that will keep me busy for some time. Please be neither offended, nor triumphant!!
Posted by: Truthseeker, Lanarkshire on 10:54pm Wed 13 Feb 08
Oh, before I do (finally) go, the incident that you describe is, in my book, a million miles from the sort of situation to which the article that engendered this thread refers. Goodnight.
Oh, before I do (finally) go, the incident that you describe is, in my book, a million miles from the sort of situation to which the article that engendered this thread refers. Goodnight.
Posted by: Los Angeles, Edinburgh on 12:56am Thu 14 Feb 08
Truthseeker
We can all pick 'n mix extreme examples to bolster our opinion.
The topic is the use of ultrasonic weapons to disperse groups of teenagers - as to who judges whether they are intimidating or not is another question - but you can be sure the use of such devices will not stop the odd occasion of senseless violence, nor the kind carried out by an individual capable of moving from verbal threat to the homicidal. Nor is random violence new behaviour.
Jimmy Boyle take a bow.
I live in Edinburgh and worked in the east end of Glasgow for years - I know poverty, loss of hope, and the despair that arises from it.
Contrary to popular myth, Los Angeles is a fine place. Like other major cities it has its dark spots. The only time I personally have ever been threatened was in genteel Morningside, Edinburgh, not known internationally as a no-go violent area. I got confronted by five well dressed, well mannered young men and their Alsation dog.
Employ less fear and more brain cells and solutions will be found.
One solution taken up by France is for all teenagers to spend a compulsory year doing community service ... not army service where they are trained how to kill, but good work in the community.
Far better that blasting their ears with ultrasonic sound - isn't it?
LA
Truthseeker
We can all pick 'n mix extreme examples to bolster our opinion.
The topic is the use of ultrasonic weapons to disperse groups of teenagers - as to who judges whether they are intimidating or not is another question - but you can be sure the use of such devices will not stop the odd occasion of senseless violence, nor the kind carried out by an individual capable of moving from verbal threat to the homicidal. Nor is random violence new behaviour.
Jimmy Boyle take a bow.
I live in Edinburgh and worked in the east end of Glasgow for years - I know poverty, loss of hope, and the despair that arises from it.
Contrary to popular myth, Los Angeles is a fine place. Like other major cities it has its dark spots. The only time I personally have ever been threatened was in genteel Morningside, Edinburgh, not known internationally as a no-go violent area. I got confronted by five well dressed, well mannered young men and their Alsation dog.
Employ less fear and more brain cells and solutions will be found.
One solution taken up by France is for all teenagers to spend a compulsory year doing community service ... not army service where they are trained how to kill, but good work in the community.
Far better that blasting their ears with ultrasonic sound - isn't it?
LA
Posted by: Observer, Glasgow on 7:55pm Thu 14 Feb 08
Kathleen Marshall's job is to look after the interests of children. That is what she is paid for and that is what she is doing.
Kathleen Marshall's job is to look after the interests of children. That is what she is paid for and that is what she is doing.
