Tory votes win Budget battle for Swinney
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| KNIFE-EDGE: Scottish Finance minister John Swinney seeks support for the minority SNP administration's budget from the Scottish Parliament. Picture: David Cheskin/PA Wire |
The SNP survived its biggest hurdle in government last night when its budget proposals received the narrow backing of MSPs by just two votes.
The anticipated knife-edge decision had led the presiding officer, Alex Ferguson, to tell party leaders earlier that in the event of a tie his casting vote would be in favour of the government, as that option would give MSPs further opportunity for scrutiny.
Labour voted against the budget presented by Finance Secretary John Swinney and were backed by the Liberal Democrats, who claimed they voted against because of lack of clarity.
But Conservatives voted in favour on the basis of a pledge to look again at police numbers and business rates, while the Greens were persuaded to abstain, resulting in a 64-62 victory for the government.
The SNP brought in Angela Constance, the Livingston MSP who has been on maternity leave, and West of Scotland list MSP Aileen Campbell who scalded her hand on soup yesterday and had to go to casualty.
Mr Swinney conceded to the Greens a promise of a "carbon assessment tool" to be applied across all government spending, setting out the damage costs of climate change. He allowed Green MSP Patrick Harvie an SNP time slot during the debate.
Independent MSP Margo MacDonald, who voted with the government, got the prospect of provision being made in next year's budget for Edinburgh to receive extra cash to meet costs incurred by its capital status.
The plans go back to committee for further scrutiny before returning to the chamber early next month for the crucial final vote.
Mr Swinney told MSPs: "This is a co-ordinated programme to tackle the inequalities in Scottish society and to build up our communities, and to ensure that all Scots live safe from crime, disorder and danger."
Labour proposed a list of additions to the budget, including 15,000 more modern apprenticeships.
Labour finance spokesman Iain Gray said: "By all means find a better way of funding these things but do not tell us in a budget of £30bn you cannot find the money to support these changes."
Tories supported the SNP but warned that they have yet to make up their minds how they will vote in the final debate next month.
LibDem's Tavish Scott complained the budget was "opaque, designed for ministerial spin and diktat".
Mr Swinney said: "I have promised that the government will look at the points made by the Finance Committee."
But he dampened expectations on the business rates issue, telling MSPs: "There is little I can do to increase the size of the financial cake."
The Conservatives' finance spokes-man Derek Brownlee said: "Common sense has prevailed and
the minority government has been given the opportunity to come back to Parliament with proposals on
business rate cuts and police
numbers."
Mr Gray said: "They are a party that cares very little for the vulnerable and appear to care even less about
Scotland's future as a highly-skilled economy by their refusal to back modern apprenticeships."
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Posted by: Lowperdowg, Ailsa Craig on 12:08am Thu 24 Jan 08
Well done, John Swinney.
A good man doing a good job.
All that Labour and the Liberals can do is hope for him to stumble.
Well done, John Swinney.
A good man doing a good job.
All that Labour and the Liberals can do is hope for him to stumble.
Posted by: seannair, Oban on 12:11am Thu 24 Jan 08
I note that the Herald policy on comment now appears to be that comment should be denied to any story remotely connected to the Prime Minister and the Labour government.
Even the report that the Home Secretary or is it really Gordon Brown who succeeded where Alex Salmand has allegedly failed is denied comment.. The SNP government has not yet succeeded in getting 1,000 police on the streets whereas London Labour managed to get no less than 22,000 bobbies out yesterday.
I note that the Herald policy on comment now appears to be that comment should be denied to any story remotely connected to the Prime Minister and the Labour government.
Even the report that the Home Secretary or is it really Gordon Brown who succeeded where Alex Salmand has allegedly failed is denied comment.. The SNP government has not yet succeeded in getting 1,000 police on the streets whereas London Labour managed to get no less than 22,000 bobbies out yesterday.
Posted by: Paulo, Glasgow, Scotland, UNITED KINGDOM on 12:12am Thu 24 Jan 08
...so the seditionists ridiculous 'government' is propped up by a bunch of tree hugging luddite dafties and the party of Thatcher!!!
Thatcher is back..the tartan tories have shown their true face.
I never thought id say the day when the tories have any influence in Scottish politics...shame on you Salmond and to all the seditionist
stormtroopers that will be on here later defending this outrage.
Never has Scotland stooped so low....Thank God we have just over
three years of this shower left..roll on 2011 when Scotland will come home to labour!!
...so the seditionists ridiculous 'government' is propped up by a bunch of tree hugging luddite dafties and the party of Thatcher!!!
Thatcher is back..the tartan tories have shown their true face.
I never thought id say the day when the tories have any influence in Scottish politics...shame on you Salmond and to all the seditionist
stormtroopers that will be on here later defending this outrage.
Never has Scotland stooped so low....Thank God we have just over
three years of this shower left..roll on 2011 when Scotland will come home to labour!!
Posted by: Lowperdowg, Ailsa Craig on 12:14am Thu 24 Jan 08
Hi Paulo, you have just convinced me of the merits of Labour.
Where do I sign up?
Labour rock.
Hi Paulo, you have just convinced me of the merits of Labour.
Where do I sign up?
Labour rock.
Posted by: Paulo on 12:25am Thu 24 Jan 08
[quote][bold]Lowperdowg[/bold] wrote:
Hi Paulo, you have just convinced me of the merits of Labour. Where do I sign up? Labour rock.[/quote] We dont need you....just 60 votes in Cunninghame North
Lowperdowg wrote:
Hi Paulo, you have just convinced me of the merits of Labour. Where do I sign up? Labour rock.
We dont need you....just 60 votes in Cunninghame North
Posted by: Wendy Alexander, Westminister on 12:31am Thu 24 Jan 08
Paulo
You really are a sad pathetic little ned.
Paulo
You really are a sad pathetic little ned.
Posted by: Tony, Glasgow on 12:45am Thu 24 Jan 08
the snp are BAD for scotland...LABOUR is the REAL party of scotland and that's why the GLASGOW people still vote LABOUR because the people of GLASGOW are the real SCOTS...not all those tories who live in the north. they are not real SCOTS because they don't vote LABOUR
LABOUR PARTY = SCOTLAND and LABOUR cares for scotland
SCOTLAND = UK and is not a country like the narrrow bigoted SNP believe.
without the UK and LABOUR we would have no jobs or prosperity in scotland and would not be the most rich country in europe...becasie gordon brown has made the UK the greatest and most rich country in the western world...ask any economist!
LABOUR know that scotland is better in the UK where there are JOBS and stability. Scotland is better in the UK with a caring LABOUR goverment in power.
THE SNP will be beaten and so will INDEPENDENCE which the people of scotland DO NOT WANT.
Alex Salmond is a rat.
the snp are BAD for scotland...LABOUR is the REAL party of scotland and that's why the GLASGOW people still vote LABOUR because the people of GLASGOW are the real SCOTS...not all those tories who live in the north. they are not real SCOTS because they don't vote LABOUR
LABOUR PARTY = SCOTLAND and LABOUR cares for scotland
SCOTLAND = UK and is not a country like the narrrow bigoted SNP believe.
without the UK and LABOUR we would have no jobs or prosperity in scotland and would not be the most rich country in europe...becasie gordon brown has made the UK the greatest and most rich country in the western world...ask any economist!
LABOUR know that scotland is better in the UK where there are JOBS and stability. Scotland is better in the UK with a caring LABOUR goverment in power.
THE SNP will be beaten and so will INDEPENDENCE which the people of scotland DO NOT WANT.
Alex Salmond is a rat.
Posted by: Gavel Maker on 12:46am Thu 24 Jan 08
Hi Paolo,
How are you my old mucker?
Do explain your objections to the budget please instead of revert to some ill defined tribalism.
Labour voted to increase council tax on the elderly, for no increased funding to lower waiting times, for no extra funding for the third sector, for no bursaries for students, for no extra police officers, for no reduction of prescription charges, no funding for MRSA screening, no additional funding for international aid.
What a sad day for the founders of Labour to find their party in such a state. Voting against social justice.
And do tell why Labour would be better because I don't see anything virtuous in your preferred party's support for the Iraq war, Trident, PFI, loans for peerages, cutting the funding for charities in Scotland to pay for the London Olympics etc etc
Why do you support all that?
Hi Paolo,
How are you my old mucker?
Do explain your objections to the budget please instead of revert to some ill defined tribalism.
Labour voted to increase council tax on the elderly, for no increased funding to lower waiting times, for no extra funding for the third sector, for no bursaries for students, for no extra police officers, for no reduction of prescription charges, no funding for MRSA screening, no additional funding for international aid.
What a sad day for the founders of Labour to find their party in such a state. Voting against social justice.
And do tell why Labour would be better because I don't see anything virtuous in your preferred party's support for the Iraq war, Trident, PFI, loans for peerages, cutting the funding for charities in Scotland to pay for the London Olympics etc etc
Why do you support all that?
Posted by: Cynicus on 12:53am Thu 24 Jan 08
The "Labour" posters above are Nat trolls. Utterly preposterous ones at that.
The "Labour" posters above are Nat trolls. Utterly preposterous ones at that.
Posted by: nat the9 o'clock news on 12:55am Thu 24 Jan 08
A nasty, politically-motivate
d headline that is more worthy of the Daily Record than Scotland's "newspaper of record".
No surprise that some Labour oaf jumped at the invitation to dub the SNP (a left-leaning party that favours independence) "tartan Tories" (i.e. a right-wing unionist party).
PS [bold]"[italic]The Conservatives' finance spokes-man"[/italic] [/bold] [italic]italic[/italic]
For two points, will someone tell the illiterate kids at The Herald what is wrong with the above?
A nasty, politically-motivate
d headline that is more worthy of the Daily Record than Scotland's "newspaper of record".
No surprise that some Labour oaf jumped at the invitation to dub the SNP (a left-leaning party that favours independence) "tartan Tories" (i.e. a right-wing unionist party).
PS
"The Conservatives' finance spokes-man"
For two points, will someone tell the illiterate kids at The Herald what is wrong with the above?
Posted by: subrosa on 12:55am Thu 24 Jan 08
Oh dear Tony you do give Glaswegians a bad name. Lay off the Buckie lad and try to give a reasoned opinion. For your own health you see....
Oh dear Tony you do give Glaswegians a bad name. Lay off the Buckie lad and try to give a reasoned opinion. For your own health you see....
Posted by: Wardog, Buckie on 12:57am Thu 24 Jan 08
Me too Paulo..... your positive spin on labour's contribution over the last 8 years has got reaching for my £999 savings account....for rainy days you understand.....
Me too Paulo..... your positive spin on labour's contribution over the last 8 years has got reaching for my £999 savings account....for rainy days you understand.....
Posted by: Wardog, Buckie on 1:00am Thu 24 Jan 08
dear oh dear tony....Labour and Glasgow care for Scotland...but then you on to say that Scotland isn't a country
Can you give me the name of an economist to check this before I sign up my £999 to the campaign to keep Scotland down?
The only thing, I quite like rats, I can still right?
dear oh dear tony....Labour and Glasgow care for Scotland...but then you on to say that Scotland isn't a country
Can you give me the name of an economist to check this before I sign up my £999 to the campaign to keep Scotland down?
The only thing, I quite like rats, I can still right?
Posted by: Celtic Lion, Roar on 1:12am Thu 24 Jan 08
Goodness me, is it not a wee bit late for these armchair warrior heroics from everyone? Why people can't just learn to ignore trolls and nonsense is beyond me.
I'm glad [italic]for Scotland[/italic] that the budget got over this hurdle. I do hope LibDems and (especially) Labour will stop their silly games and provide more mature and sensible input for the remainder of the process.
Goodness me, is it not a wee bit late for these armchair warrior heroics from everyone? Why people can't just learn to ignore trolls and nonsense is beyond me.
I'm glad
for Scotland that the budget got over this hurdle. I do hope LibDems and (especially) Labour will stop their silly games and provide more mature and sensible input for the remainder of the process.
Posted by: nat the9 o'clock news on 1:24am Thu 24 Jan 08
[quote][bold]Celtic Lion[/bold] wrote:
Goodness me, is it not a wee bit late for these armchair warrior heroics from everyone? Why people can't just learn to ignore trolls and nonsense is beyond me.
I'm glad [italic]for Scotland[/italic] that the budget got over this hurdle. I do hope LibDems and (especially) Labour will stop their silly games and provide more mature and sensible input for the remainder of the process.[/quote] By "trolls and nonsense", do you mean the headline?
Celtic Lion wrote:
Goodness me, is it not a wee bit late for these armchair warrior heroics from everyone? Why people can't just learn to ignore trolls and nonsense is beyond me.
I'm glad for Scotland that the budget got over this hurdle. I do hope LibDems and (especially) Labour will stop their silly games and provide more mature and sensible input for the remainder of the process.
By "trolls and nonsense", do you mean the headline?
Posted by: Celtic Lion, Roar on 1:28am Thu 24 Jan 08
nat the9 o'clock news,no no, just the noise around here. The same old thing every day is lacking originality and getting boring. The headline has a certain nonsense anti-SNP spin to it though, but what more could you expect from a Scottish paper?
nat the9 o'clock news,no no, just the noise around here. The same old thing every day is lacking originality and getting boring. The headline has a certain nonsense anti-SNP spin to it though, but what more could you expect from a Scottish paper?
Posted by: Celtic Lion, Roar on 1:36am Thu 24 Jan 08
Wullie they don't condemn their party for breaking the law, it's unlikely they'll condemn one of their own for an abusive post! ;)
Wullie they don't condemn their party for breaking the law, it's unlikely they'll condemn one of their own for an abusive post! ;)
Posted by: Craig Houston, Glasgow on 1:36am Thu 24 Jan 08
What a laugh... the SNP needing the Tories and Margo to pass their budget!!
The voters will be reminded of this at the next election and turn back to Labour.
I know it hurts SNP supporters, it really hurts!
What a laugh... the SNP needing the Tories and Margo to pass their budget!!
The voters will be reminded of this at the next election and turn back to Labour.
I know it hurts SNP supporters, it really hurts!
Posted by: GRAHAM, gLASGOW on 1:38am Thu 24 Jan 08
MY COMMENT, 1;21am. The word was for a big Cat, Pu***. Are the Taliban involved here.[bold]bold[/bold]
MY COMMENT, 1;21am. The word was for a big Cat, Pu***. Are the Taliban involved here.
Posted by: Joe, Easterhouse on 1:42am Thu 24 Jan 08
The Labour party warned voters against voting the Tartan-Tory party into Government. Now we see the result... the SNP will do anything to remain in power - they've forgot the people and are snouting in the trough of Government!!!
The Labour party warned voters against voting the Tartan-Tory party into Government. Now we see the result... the SNP will do anything to remain in power - they've forgot the people and are snouting in the trough of Government!!!
Posted by: Jim Baxter, RIP, Hong Kong on 1:43am Thu 24 Jan 08
Hi Paulo and other New Labour Dopes,
The public will remember the New Labour party as one of war mongering and sleeze.
Hi Paulo and other New Labour Dopes,
The public will remember the New Labour party as one of war mongering and sleeze.
Posted by: Dave, Away on 1:49am Thu 24 Jan 08
Don't see what the fuss is about....
Salmond's job is to get a working budget passed so the people can get on with their lives....he's doing his job.
The Tories have agreed to exchange their votes for the budget item closest to their hearts (at least Anabel's from the last six month's of her focus)....
There is even some humour, to wit:
"backed by the Liberal Democrats, who claimed they voted against because of lack of clarity."
When one always expects that the LD would find such to be in line with their position......
WENDY FOR QUEEN!! (just maybe not first minister....)
Don't see what the fuss is about....
Salmond's job is to get a working budget passed so the people can get on with their lives....he's doing his job.
The Tories have agreed to exchange their votes for the budget item closest to their hearts (at least Anabel's from the last six month's of her focus)....
There is even some humour, to wit:
"backed by the Liberal Democrats, who claimed they voted against because of lack of clarity."
When one always expects that the LD would find such to be in line with their position......
WENDY FOR QUEEN!! (just maybe not first minister....)
Posted by: Craig Houston, Glasgow on 1:50am Thu 24 Jan 08
No Jim, when it comes to an election the only thing the voting public will remember is "who did the Tories support to pass their budget?"
The Scottish people can't stick the Tories, and knowing that the SNP showed their true Tory colours, the people will turn back to Labour.
No Jim, when it comes to an election the only thing the voting public will remember is "who did the Tories support to pass their budget?"
The Scottish people can't stick the Tories, and knowing that the SNP showed their true Tory colours, the people will turn back to Labour.
Posted by: Celtic Lion, Roar on 1:56am Thu 24 Jan 08
Perhaps, but I think people are more concerned with results than a budget so it's three years too early to make predictions for the next Scottish election. Many people feel betrayed by Labour and the promises they made and that's what tends to leave a nasty taste in the mouth.
Perhaps, but I think people are more concerned with results than a budget so it's three years too early to make predictions for the next Scottish election. Many people feel betrayed by Labour and the promises they made and that's what tends to leave a nasty taste in the mouth.
Posted by: MisterC, West end Glasgow on 2:01am Thu 24 Jan 08
Wullie, not all of us from Glasgow are like the ones you have described. Its a very unfair comment and quite frankly there are plenty of bamms from Aberdeen as I know having lived there.
As for all the SNP-Tory scum nonsense all I can say is that the Scottish tories are not the tories we knew and hated in the 80's. Parties can change and the Holyrood Tory group sure as hell ain't the tories we knew and hated in the 80's. I am no tory, I am pleased we have the SNP in government and am all for independence. The Labour party is no friend of the people of Scotland, only their cronies and their behaviour in parliament has been appaling, they truly are not fit for government at this moment in time and if they want to retain power at some point they need to wise up big time and that includes the likes of some of the pro labour posters on here.
With independence or, at least fiscal autonomy, the budget could and should be bigger and as for the claim by the guy who I have the misfortune to live in the same city as, that and independent Scotland would have no jobs, that is total nonsense. In an independent Scotland there would be no jobs for idiots like you-at least in the public sector, imagine your taxes paying his wages!
As for where money will be spent, well you cannot please everybody, but with this budget it seems it was a damage limitation job, and a not bad effort I must say.
It could have been a better budget
Wullie, not all of us from Glasgow are like the ones you have described. Its a very unfair comment and quite frankly there are plenty of bamms from Aberdeen as I know having lived there.
As for all the SNP-Tory scum nonsense all I can say is that the Scottish tories are not the tories we knew and hated in the 80's. Parties can change and the Holyrood Tory group sure as hell ain't the tories we knew and hated in the 80's. I am no tory, I am pleased we have the SNP in government and am all for independence. The Labour party is no friend of the people of Scotland, only their cronies and their behaviour in parliament has been appaling, they truly are not fit for government at this moment in time and if they want to retain power at some point they need to wise up big time and that includes the likes of some of the pro labour posters on here.
With independence or, at least fiscal autonomy, the budget could and should be bigger and as for the claim by the guy who I have the misfortune to live in the same city as, that and independent Scotland would have no jobs, that is total nonsense. In an independent Scotland there would be no jobs for idiots like you-at least in the public sector, imagine your taxes paying his wages!
As for where money will be spent, well you cannot please everybody, but with this budget it seems it was a damage limitation job, and a not bad effort I must say.
It could have been a better budget
Posted by: Mac Coinnich on 2:02am Thu 24 Jan 08
I see the usual labour dregs with their complict pro British State support are spouting the usual unionist nonsense, Labour = Scotland don't make laugh you half wit. I can say with confidence these will be the same people who don't support the British state in Northern Ireland but do support its devious Wars in Iraq. That Paulo character probably attends Celtic Park with the pro Ireland anti-Scottish mob, oi Paolo & co take yer union flags to Celtic Park ya perfidious shower of wretches. Good on you John Swinney my MP & anything but a parochial outlook. The Glasgow Irish republican brigade with their unsweving devotion to the British State are the real bigot's & any person with a modicum of impariality know's that! Stick yer union up yer treachous complicit you know what's. Alba gu brath, for a new Scotland free of lacky's!
I see the usual labour dregs with their complict pro British State support are spouting the usual unionist nonsense, Labour = Scotland don't make laugh you half wit. I can say with confidence these will be the same people who don't support the British state in Northern Ireland but do support its devious Wars in Iraq. That Paulo character probably attends Celtic Park with the pro Ireland anti-Scottish mob, oi Paolo & co take yer union flags to Celtic Park ya perfidious shower of wretches. Good on you John Swinney my MP & anything but a parochial outlook. The Glasgow Irish republican brigade with their unsweving devotion to the British State are the real bigot's & any person with a modicum of impariality know's that! Stick yer union up yer treachous complicit you know what's. Alba gu brath, for a new Scotland free of lacky's!
Posted by: Graham, Glasgow on 2:08am Thu 24 Jan 08
Where are you SNP apologists. Remember Wee Alec wis a so called SOCIALIST, now Cuddling up to Trump the US Mega Capitalist. Pragmatism is it or Capitulism. Lets hear it you former anti -Tory kid on Nationalists, now Tories. Blah, Blah. No where to run now guys and galls, the truth is now oot!![bold]bold[/bold]
Where are you SNP apologists. Remember Wee Alec wis a so called SOCIALIST, now Cuddling up to Trump the US Mega Capitalist. Pragmatism is it or Capitulism. Lets hear it you former anti -Tory kid on Nationalists, now Tories. Blah, Blah. No where to run now guys and galls, the truth is now oot!!
Posted by: Cynicus on 2:12am Thu 24 Jan 08
[quote][bold]Graham[/bold] wrote:
The Tory scum are now united with the Tartan Tory SNP Scum. Sweaty looking greaseballs. Well it was predicted. Home at last you awwll.[bold]bold[/bold] [/quote] Another Nat troll masquerading as sweaty Old Labour with 1960s BO. C'mon, Nats: you can surely do better than this chump.
Graham wrote:
The Tory scum are now united with the Tartan Tory SNP Scum. Sweaty looking greaseballs. Well it was predicted. Home at last you awwll.
Another Nat troll masquerading as sweaty Old Labour with 1960s BO. C'mon, Nats: you can surely do better than this chump.
Posted by: MisterC, West end Glasgow on 2:13am Thu 24 Jan 08
So Graham, tell us all, what is your opinion on your beloved Labour party voting with the tories? They voted together on Iraq amongst other things......
So Graham, tell us all, what is your opinion on your beloved Labour party voting with the tories? They voted together on Iraq amongst other things......
Posted by: Craig Houston, Glasgow on 2:14am Thu 24 Jan 08
Well, there we go.... SNP posters want to "gas" Labour supporting Glaswegians...
Says a lot about the SNP supporters... a new Scotland indeed! Only for "pure" Scots like Mac Coinnich!!
Good night... the Labour party will be back in power.
Well, there we go.... SNP posters want to "gas" Labour supporting Glaswegians...
Says a lot about the SNP supporters... a new Scotland indeed! Only for "pure" Scots like Mac Coinnich!!
Good night... the Labour party will be back in power.
Posted by: Mac Coinnich on 2:15am Thu 24 Jan 08
Well done the SNP for getting this deal with the Tory's through, the first objective of an independent Scotland will be to get the real Scum that is the labour rancid Kings of nepotism of their bloated public sector hand out jacksies & start creating wealth instead of constantly taxing the people who work and create wealth. The labour party's pals in the co-oporate world who avoid paying tax while Brown & Captain Darling lower the 40% threshold budget by budget so that the tax payer can pay for the under class created by the previous British state masters Thatcher & co & continued by Blair & co can be kept on benefits in the ghetto's built by successive Westminster Govenments. What a hand out mentality you Glasgow labourites have, carry on John deal with Scottish Tories on Scottish terms the Glasgow hand out bigots can't see past thre next giro!
Well done the SNP for getting this deal with the Tory's through, the first objective of an independent Scotland will be to get the real Scum that is the labour rancid Kings of nepotism of their bloated public sector hand out jacksies & start creating wealth instead of constantly taxing the people who work and create wealth. The labour party's pals in the co-oporate world who avoid paying tax while Brown & Captain Darling lower the 40% threshold budget by budget so that the tax payer can pay for the under class created by the previous British state masters Thatcher & co & continued by Blair & co can be kept on benefits in the ghetto's built by successive Westminster Govenments. What a hand out mentality you Glasgow labourites have, carry on John deal with Scottish Tories on Scottish terms the Glasgow hand out bigots can't see past thre next giro!
Posted by: Wullie, Aberdeen on 2:17am Thu 24 Jan 08
Scotland would have been independent decades ago if it wasnt for Glaswegians voting labour, time and time again. Glasgow is like a millstone round Scotlands neck. It will always hold the country back.
To quote labour spin doctor John McTernan
'' Glasgow is too Irish ,catholic and labour. ''
Scotland would have been independent decades ago if it wasnt for Glaswegians voting labour, time and time again. Glasgow is like a millstone round Scotlands neck. It will always hold the country back.
To quote labour spin doctor John McTernan
'' Glasgow is too Irish ,catholic and labour. ''
Posted by: Cynicus on 2:34am Thu 24 Jan 08
[quote][bold]MisterC[/bold] wrote:
Hate to say it Wullie but its true to an extent. That particular ethnic section of society are the ones who vote Labour and tend to be the neds here. I wish that many in this city would get over the Ireland issue most of the Irish who live in Ireland have.[/quote] Wullie, you've blown it. By ludicrous over-egging of the faux-sectarian pudding by pretending to be Mr C, you forfeit the Cynicus star.
New Labour must be getting desperate at the loss of Catholic votes to resort to such measures.
MisterC wrote:
Hate to say it Wullie but its true to an extent. That particular ethnic section of society are the ones who vote Labour and tend to be the neds here. I wish that many in this city would get over the Ireland issue most of the Irish who live in Ireland have.
Wullie, you've blown it. By ludicrous over-egging of the faux-sectarian pudding by pretending to be Mr C, you forfeit the Cynicus star.
New Labour must be getting desperate at the loss of Catholic votes to resort to such measures.
Posted by: MisterC, West end Glasgow on 2:40am Thu 24 Jan 08
He is defenitely not me!! I am young cool and intelligent and I deeply suspect that Wullie isn't and as if I'd admit to being from Aberdeen!
ps Graham, still awaiting your justification of Labour and the Tories voting together....come on lets here it and at the same time, what would labour have done?
He is defenitely not me!! I am young cool and intelligent and I deeply suspect that Wullie isn't and as if I'd admit to being from Aberdeen!
ps Graham, still awaiting your justification of Labour and the Tories voting together....come on lets here it and at the same time, what would labour have done?
Posted by: Wullie, Aberdeen on 2:48am Thu 24 Jan 08
Just as the Scottish and English settlers in Northerm Ireland are ultra British Unionists. The Irish Catholic settlers who migrated to Glasgow in the 19th and 20th century are the biggest Arch UK Unionists.
Just google what Glasgow writer Andrew O'Hagan said in the Telegraph newspaper in the lead up to the1.5. 2007 Scottish Election.
The headline was'' The Snp are a parcel of rogues'' . O'Hagan dared to use Robert Burns writings to slag off Independence. O'hagan is a third rate writer who is not even good enough to polish Burns shoes plus he doesnt seem to realise that Burns was for independence but had to keep it quiet because it was treason and he would have been shipped off to Australia.
Also read the anti Scottish remarks of composer James McMillan and actors John Hannah and Billy Connelly. All from Irish stock.
Just as the Scottish and English settlers in Northerm Ireland are ultra British Unionists. The Irish Catholic settlers who migrated to Glasgow in the 19th and 20th century are the biggest Arch UK Unionists.
Just google what Glasgow writer Andrew O'Hagan said in the Telegraph newspaper in the lead up to the1.5. 2007 Scottish Election.
The headline was'' The Snp are a parcel of rogues'' . O'Hagan dared to use Robert Burns writings to slag off Independence. O'hagan is a third rate writer who is not even good enough to polish Burns shoes plus he doesnt seem to realise that Burns was for independence but had to keep it quiet because it was treason and he would have been shipped off to Australia.
Also read the anti Scottish remarks of composer James McMillan and actors John Hannah and Billy Connelly. All from Irish stock.
Posted by: Wullie, Aberdeen on 2:56am Thu 24 Jan 08
Best to ignore Cynicus, He's a twit.
Best to ignore Cynicus, He's a twit.
Posted by: IF IT'S ON TICK - BUY 6, Coatbridge til Friday on 3:08am Thu 24 Jan 08
They got their spending plans through with support from the Tories!That's another pre-election promise broken. The SNP said they would never work with the Tories. Ach well.
Local authorities have to cut £2.7 billion from public services this coming year. That's why the Tories backed them. It is further attacks on the working class and the services we need. The losses in services like day-care centres, cleansing and caring for the vulnerable have all been under attack since Thatcher, Major and Blair and now Brown, Salmond and Swinney, the tartan tories, are forced to turn to the real Tories for support.
The cuts are required to give tax concessions to big business.
What are the working mothers going to do when they have to pay high charges for nurseries? What about children and young adults with learning disabilities who will have no centre to go to once the budget bites? 50% of the centres are to be closed. Make no mistake these cuts will hit the working families and the low/medium earners hardest.
Half the working people with families in Scotland need their income brought up to EU decency levels by Tax Credits (or Family Income Supplement as it used to be called) - this is now on the SNP's radar and will eventually be scrapped.
The level of understanding about this - on the blog at least - is worrying. Even taking into account that you can't really trust the blog (multiple postings) and the standard of debate is not good enough to make the letter's page in the paper; it seems that if the SNP are proposing it then its fine. Time will tell because we are set for industrial unrest never seen for a generation as workers fight for their jobs and to retain services. Isn't it also ironic that the Tories had to save Swinney's "budget"? This should be alarming for a large number of people - remember what the Tories did to Scotland? They also opposed the parliament and remain unionists, but worse than that, the question is, what is in it for them?
They got their spending plans through with support from the Tories!That's another pre-election promise broken. The SNP said they would never work with the Tories. Ach well.
Local authorities have to cut £2.7 billion from public services this coming year. That's why the Tories backed them. It is further attacks on the working class and the services we need. The losses in services like day-care centres, cleansing and caring for the vulnerable have all been under attack since Thatcher, Major and Blair and now Brown, Salmond and Swinney, the tartan tories, are forced to turn to the real Tories for support.
The cuts are required to give tax concessions to big business.
What are the working mothers going to do when they have to pay high charges for nurseries? What about children and young adults with learning disabilities who will have no centre to go to once the budget bites? 50% of the centres are to be closed. Make no mistake these cuts will hit the working families and the low/medium earners hardest.
Half the working people with families in Scotland need their income brought up to EU decency levels by Tax Credits (or Family Income Supplement as it used to be called) - this is now on the SNP's radar and will eventually be scrapped.
The level of understanding about this - on the blog at least - is worrying. Even taking into account that you can't really trust the blog (multiple postings) and the standard of debate is not good enough to make the letter's page in the paper; it seems that if the SNP are proposing it then its fine. Time will tell because we are set for industrial unrest never seen for a generation as workers fight for their jobs and to retain services. Isn't it also ironic that the Tories had to save Swinney's "budget"? This should be alarming for a large number of people - remember what the Tories did to Scotland? They also opposed the parliament and remain unionists, but worse than that, the question is, what is in it for them?
Posted by: nouveauxscum on 3:17am Thu 24 Jan 08
Common sense prevails - at least amongst those who have Scotland's interests at heart. Surely I can't be wrong in putting the nation before petty small mind set status quo?
Common sense prevails - at least amongst those who have Scotland's interests at heart. Surely I can't be wrong in putting the nation before petty small mind set status quo?
Posted by: Graham, Glasgow on 3:20am Thu 24 Jan 08
Told you so, Tory, SNP Tartan Tory Scum. Surely any sensible person can recognise them from a short distance. They only have to open their mouths! Make you vomit they wid! SHEEEEWWWWEYY.[bold]bold[/bold]
Told you so, Tory, SNP Tartan Tory Scum. Surely any sensible person can recognise them from a short distance. They only have to open their mouths! Make you vomit they wid! SHEEEEWWWWEYY.
Posted by: W. Anthony Mair, Wyenought on 3:27am Thu 24 Jan 08
Remember what Labour in Scotland blamed on the Tories when in fact it was LABOUR, and voting for the same things does not mean you are "working together"
Anyone voting for any party hardly knows, never mind works alongside, everybody else who also vote for the same party.
The way some people twist logic in an attempt to make a case is ridiculous.
Westminster control the amount available, not the SNP.
Despite this we still read absurd statements from anti-Scotlanders while none of them mention the cost of years of dubious Labour practices and indeed wish to coerce us into returning to such.
If it wasn't a joke it would be funny.
Remember what Labour in Scotland blamed on the Tories when in fact it was LABOUR, and voting for the same things does not mean you are "working together"
Anyone voting for any party hardly knows, never mind works alongside, everybody else who also vote for the same party.
The way some people twist logic in an attempt to make a case is ridiculous.
Westminster control the amount available, not the SNP.
Despite this we still read absurd statements from anti-Scotlanders while none of them mention the cost of years of dubious Labour practices and indeed wish to coerce us into returning to such.
If it wasn't a joke it would be funny.
Posted by: nouveauxscum on 3:28am Thu 24 Jan 08
IF IT'S ON TICK
Can you provide us with proof of your statement that the SNP "would never work with the Tories".
I know Gordon Brown said something similar about the Scottish government in May - but........
IF IT'S ON TICK
Can you provide us with proof of your statement that the SNP "would never work with the Tories".
I know Gordon Brown said something similar about the Scottish government in May - but........
Posted by: Dougie Douglas, Brisbane on 3:31am Thu 24 Jan 08
Wullie
I take it that when the rest of Scotland cedes from Glasgow you are not putting your hand up for the 'Ambassador to Glasgow' position?!
On story....
Th fact of the matter is that the Tories (reformed or not) represent a significant section of the population. The SNP has a broad and inclusive minority government - this requires making concessions to voting 'partners'. Coalition governments throughout the world are recognised as formulating good policy.
I'm not sure which bit of this Labour supporters can't get their head around - probably all of it (especially whilst it's Wendy's 'shot' of the brain)
Of course there would be 1000 extra police if the SNP didn't have to concede to the will of the Labour party to engage in a 600million vanity project.
Wullie
I take it that when the rest of Scotland cedes from Glasgow you are not putting your hand up for the 'Ambassador to Glasgow' position?!
On story....
Th fact of the matter is that the Tories (reformed or not) represent a significant section of the population. The SNP has a broad and inclusive minority government - this requires making concessions to voting 'partners'. Coalition governments throughout the world are recognised as formulating good policy.
I'm not sure which bit of this Labour supporters can't get their head around - probably all of it (especially whilst it's Wendy's 'shot' of the brain)
Of course there would be 1000 extra police if the SNP didn't have to concede to the will of the Labour party to engage in a 600million vanity project.
Posted by: Celtic Lion, Roar on 3:31am Thu 24 Jan 08
[bold]IF IT'S ON TICK - BUY 6, Coatbridge til Friday on 3:08am today[/bold]
I was about to go to bed but what the hell. I'll answer a few of your points.
[quote]They got their spending plans through with support from the Tories!That's another pre-election promise broken. The SNP said they would never work with the Tories. Ach well.[/quote]
If it were in their manifesto never to work with the tories then I would agree with you, but it wasn't so I fail to see a broken promise. I'm happier to see the SNP working and making agreements when it's in Scotland's interests, rather than snubbing others and ignoring the interests of Scots for petty political point scoring as Labour and the LibDems have been doing
[quote] Isn't it also ironic that the Tories had to save Swinney's "budget"?[/quote]
Not really. Someone had to act mature and we couldn't expect that from either Labour or the LibDems.
[quote]This should be alarming for a large number of people - remember what the Tories did to Scotland?[/quote]
Yes, but the concessions SNP made weren't (for example) to close the mines or introduce poll tax. I'm pretty darn sure the concessions made will be far more popular with the electorate than they ever were.
[quote]They also opposed the parliament and remain unionists...[/quote]
It would be difficult for the SNP to get a budget through without any unionist support at all. They would need most of parliament abstaining.
[quote]...but worse than that, the question is, what is in it for them?[/quote]
The chance to get a couple of their manifesto objectives implemented and start to regain the Scottish trust that Thatcher threw away.
Nighty night. Sorry I don't have the time or energy to answer all your questions.
IF IT'S ON TICK - BUY 6, Coatbridge til Friday on 3:08am today
I was about to go to bed but what the hell. I'll answer a few of your points.
They got their spending plans through with support from the Tories!That's another pre-election promise broken. The SNP said they would never work with the Tories. Ach well.
If it were in their manifesto never to work with the tories then I would agree with you, but it wasn't so I fail to see a broken promise. I'm happier to see the SNP working and making agreements when it's in Scotland's interests, rather than snubbing others and ignoring the interests of Scots for petty political point scoring as Labour and the LibDems have been doing
Isn't it also ironic that the Tories had to save Swinney's "budget"?
Not really. Someone had to act mature and we couldn't expect that from either Labour or the LibDems.
This should be alarming for a large number of people - remember what the Tories did to Scotland?
Yes, but the concessions SNP made weren't (for example) to close the mines or introduce poll tax. I'm pretty darn sure the concessions made will be far more popular with the electorate than they ever were.
They also opposed the parliament and remain unionists...
It would be difficult for the SNP to get a budget through without any unionist support at all. They would need most of parliament abstaining.
...but worse than that, the question is, what is in it for them?
The chance to get a couple of their manifesto objectives implemented and start to regain the Scottish trust that Thatcher threw away.
Nighty night. Sorry I don't have the time or energy to answer all your questions.
Posted by: Los Angeles, Edinburgh on 3:33am Thu 24 Jan 08
Tick Ticked Off[quote] it seems that if the SNP are proposing it then its fine.[/quote]You spoil an otherwise decently argued opinion by crass generalisation.
It is a falsehood to suggest the SNP are having an easy journey towards independence. They are kicked around at every crossing, Salmond pulled up before a kangaroo court in the hope it will stem his confidence..
But take a different perspective: why would the SNP want to, plan to, undermine the well-being, health and prosperity of the very people it hopes to convince running their own country again is the desired ideal? Are they to toss it away without a care?
And with such a slender majority in parliament, the future utterly dependend on consulation and conciliation with the opposition, (unlike the reverse on constitutional matters) how is the SNP expected to get unpopular policies approved? You already have the example of sixty millions of unspent money getting refused an SNP distribution for one the opposition demand, namely, spent on youth.
All the controls and cautions you worry over as critical to Scotland's predicament are there now. The electorate were smart giving the SNP a chance at power but with severe constraints.
By all means keep a watchful eye for those bypassed or overlooked but it its a bit early to be screaming blue murder.
Tick Ticked Off
it seems that if the SNP are proposing it then its fine.
You spoil an otherwise decently argued opinion by crass generalisation.
It is a falsehood to suggest the SNP are having an easy journey towards independence. They are kicked around at every crossing, Salmond pulled up before a kangaroo court in the hope it will stem his confidence..
But take a different perspective: why would the SNP want to, plan to, undermine the well-being, health and prosperity of the very people it hopes to convince running their own country again is the desired ideal? Are they to toss it away without a care?
And with such a slender majority in parliament, the future utterly dependend on consulation and conciliation with the opposition, (unlike the reverse on constitutional matters) how is the SNP expected to get unpopular policies approved? You already have the example of sixty millions of unspent money getting refused an SNP distribution for one the opposition demand, namely, spent on youth.
All the controls and cautions you worry over as critical to Scotland's predicament are there now. The electorate were smart giving the SNP a chance at power but with severe constraints.
By all means keep a watchful eye for those bypassed or overlooked but it its a bit early to be screaming blue murder.
Posted by: Dougie Douglas, Brisbane on 3:38am Thu 24 Jan 08
[quote][bold]Celtic Lion[/bold] wrote:
[bold]IF IT'S ON TICK - BUY 6, Coatbridge til Friday on 3:08am today[/bold] I was about to go to bed but what the hell. I'll answer a few of your points. [quote]They got their spending plans through with support from the Tories!That's another pre-election promise broken. The SNP said they would never work with the Tories. Ach well.[/quote] If it were in their manifesto never to work with the tories then I would agree with you, but it wasn't so I fail to see a broken promise. I'm happier to see the SNP working and making agreements when it's in Scotland's interests, rather than snubbing others and ignoring the interests of Scots for petty political point scoring as Labour and the LibDems have been doing [quote] Isn't it also ironic that the Tories had to save Swinney's "budget"?[/quote] Not really. Someone had to act mature and we couldn't expect that from either Labour or the LibDems. [quote]This should be alarming for a large number of people - remember what the Tories did to Scotland?[/quote] Yes, but the concessions SNP made weren't (for example) to close the mines or introduce poll tax. I'm pretty darn sure the concessions made will be far more popular with the electorate than they ever were. [quote]They also opposed the parliament and remain unionists...[/quote] It would be difficult for the SNP to get a budget through without any unionist support at all. They would need most of parliament abstaining. [quote]...but worse than that, the question is, what is in it for them?[/quote] The chance to get a couple of their manifesto objectives implemented and start to regain the Scottish trust that Thatcher threw away. Nighty night. Sorry I don't have the time or energy to answer all your questions.[/quote] Lion
your too kind to this guy.
They just can't get their head around:
a/ Mays election defeat
b/Being snubbed and turned away by most of the populace
c/ 'concession'
d/ the concept of 'realpolitik'
...well not whilst it's Wendy's 'shot' of the brain.
It would all be quite funny if they weren't so full of bile
Celtic Lion wrote:
IF IT'S ON TICK - BUY 6, Coatbridge til Friday on 3:08am today I was about to go to bed but what the hell. I'll answer a few of your points. They got their spending plans through with support from the Tories!That's another pre-election promise broken. The SNP said they would never work with the Tories. Ach well.
If it were in their manifesto never to work with the tories then I would agree with you, but it wasn't so I fail to see a broken promise. I'm happier to see the SNP working and making agreements when it's in Scotland's interests, rather than snubbing others and ignoring the interests of Scots for petty political point scoring as Labour and the LibDems have been doing Isn't it also ironic that the Tories had to save Swinney's "budget"?
Not really. Someone had to act mature and we couldn't expect that from either Labour or the LibDems. This should be alarming for a large number of people - remember what the Tories did to Scotland?
Yes, but the concessions SNP made weren't (for example) to close the mines or introduce poll tax. I'm pretty darn sure the concessions made will be far more popular with the electorate than they ever were. They also opposed the parliament and remain unionists...
It would be difficult for the SNP to get a budget through without any unionist support at all. They would need most of parliament abstaining. ...but worse than that, the question is, what is in it for them?
The chance to get a couple of their manifesto objectives implemented and start to regain the Scottish trust that Thatcher threw away. Nighty night. Sorry I don't have the time or energy to answer all your questions.
Lion
your too kind to this guy.
They just can't get their head around:
a/ Mays election defeat
b/Being snubbed and turned away by most of the populace
c/ 'concession'
d/ the concept of 'realpolitik'
...well not whilst it's Wendy's 'shot' of the brain.
It would all be quite funny if they weren't so full of bile
Posted by: Well on 3:44am Thu 24 Jan 08
How exactly are the SNP supposed to do any work making scotland a better country if they cannot get support form the other parties?
Labour, rather than try to help are actually a hinderance to everything the SNP are trying to do..
How exactly are the SNP supposed to do any work making scotland a better country if they cannot get support form the other parties?
Labour, rather than try to help are actually a hinderance to everything the SNP are trying to do..
Posted by: nouvueaxscum on 3:57am Thu 24 Jan 08
[quote][bold]Well[/bold] wrote:
How exactly are the SNP supposed to do any work making scotland a better country if they cannot get support form the other parties? Labour, rather than try to help are actually a hinderance to everything the SNP are trying to do..[/quote] Well, exactly Well....Labour are not interested in making Scotland better......
Here's where the Labour story ends..........
Just a little souvenir............
....
tinyurl.com/24s34a
Well wrote:
How exactly are the SNP supposed to do any work making scotland a better country if they cannot get support form the other parties? Labour, rather than try to help are actually a hinderance to everything the SNP are trying to do..
Well, exactly Well....Labour are not interested in making Scotland better......
Here's where the Labour story ends..........
Just a little souvenir............
....
tinyurl.com/24s34a
Posted by: Los Angeles, Edinburgh on 4:01am Thu 24 Jan 08
Well, Well, Well[quote]How exactly are the SNP supposed to do any work making scotland a better country if they cannot get support form the other parties?[/quote]One reason Scotland is still in the hands of Westminster is generations of wily Unionist politicians understood there are any number of Scottish counterparts who can be relied upon to provide a judicious amount of disloyalty while proselytising about Scotland's interests.
.
Well, Well, Well
How exactly are the SNP supposed to do any work making scotland a better country if they cannot get support form the other parties?
One reason Scotland is still in the hands of Westminster is generations of wily Unionist politicians understood there are any number of Scottish counterparts who can be relied upon to provide a judicious amount of disloyalty while proselytising about Scotland's interests.
.
Posted by: W. Anthony Mair, Wyenought on 4:14am Thu 24 Jan 08
And they are hardly working together to gain Scottish Independence, are they?
It's quite simple. A strategic compromise in the interests of the Scottish people and the Country is a positive move.
However, those who think that opposing the positive move will gain them kudos are making a gross mistake.
The people want positive stuff for the simple reason they have had enough negative nonsense.
And they are hardly working together to gain Scottish Independence, are they?
It's quite simple. A strategic compromise in the interests of the Scottish people and the Country is a positive move.
However, those who think that opposing the positive move will gain them kudos are making a gross mistake.
The people want positive stuff for the simple reason they have had enough negative nonsense.
Posted by: Los Angeles, Edinburgh on 4:32am Thu 24 Jan 08
Mair, Why Not?[quote]a positive move.[/quote] What sort of positive move?
Mair, Why Not?
a positive move.
What sort of positive move?
Posted by: Los Angeles, Edinburgh on 4:53am Thu 24 Jan 08
Lowperdowg[quote]Well done, John Swinney. A good man doing a good job.[/quote] Against difficult odds.
Lowperdowg
Well done, John Swinney. A good man doing a good job.
Against difficult odds.
Posted by: Who gives a....., Glasgow on 4:58am Thu 24 Jan 08
Labour voting this down was 100% expected. LibDems joining them was not a smart move. LibDems are signing away their future at Westminster for seats from Scotland at the next General Election with this stance.
This is about Scotland, and OUR future. This is more than Labour, LibDems, Tory or Green party politics.
Each dissenting Party was voting and attempting to have changes made to the budget to meet their own ends and claim points, which is why they were no longer in power after May 2007.
Yes there are more debates and hurdles to pass. How about thinking about Scotland First, and not ‘THE Party’, THE UK, or Westminster. This was not about unionist or nationalist policies or politics, this was about keeping Scotland working within the finances available, which are already controlled by Labour, Westminster and UK Politicians..
Labour voting this down was 100% expected. LibDems joining them was not a smart move. LibDems are signing away their future at Westminster for seats from Scotland at the next General Election with this stance.
This is about Scotland, and OUR future. This is more than Labour, LibDems, Tory or Green party politics.
Each dissenting Party was voting and attempting to have changes made to the budget to meet their own ends and claim points, which is why they were no longer in power after May 2007.
Yes there are more debates and hurdles to pass. How about thinking about Scotland First, and not ‘THE Party’, THE UK, or Westminster. This was not about unionist or nationalist policies or politics, this was about keeping Scotland working within the finances available, which are already controlled by Labour, Westminster and UK Politicians..
Posted by: T. Watson, Inverness on 5:02am Thu 24 Jan 08
could any of these rude contributors who slam the government because the budget vote was supported by the Tory party, -
could they explain how that was bad, but it is all right for New Labour to get into bed with the Tories and Lib-Dems to prevent any debate or referendum on Independence for Scotland ?
For those twisted minds it seems that it is OK for them to unite with the Tories to deny Scots a say in their future (and by implication on foreign wars, Trident, and north sea oil), but very bad for the Scottish Government to have its budget proposals voted for by another party.
could any of these rude contributors who slam the government because the budget vote was supported by the Tory party, -
could they explain how that was bad, but it is all right for New Labour to get into bed with the Tories and Lib-Dems to prevent any debate or referendum on Independence for Scotland ?
For those twisted minds it seems that it is OK for them to unite with the Tories to deny Scots a say in their future (and by implication on foreign wars, Trident, and north sea oil), but very bad for the Scottish Government to have its budget proposals voted for by another party.
Posted by: T. Watson, Inverness on 5:05am Thu 24 Jan 08
PS - these New Labour apartchniks might also explain to us why in the name of their once great party, they gave us Tony Blair, who was more Tory than Margaret Thatcher at her worst ?????
PS - these New Labour apartchniks might also explain to us why in the name of their once great party, they gave us Tony Blair, who was more Tory than Margaret Thatcher at her worst ?????
Posted by: annonymoose, Glasgow on 5:08am Thu 24 Jan 08
Calm. Calm.
Having a wicked sense of humour and having a go at politicians is fair game, as is anyone in public life. They have to fend for themselves in open debate. Heckling is Ok when on the hustings. Having your say is one thing, but when it degenerates to personal abuse, that becoming every other post in the Politics section, this ended up with us having the comments withdrawn. How about keeping to the subject without being sidetracked, hurling abuse or “too” getting personal. If its in the internet domain its public knowledge and free to publish.
Lets not loose our luxury of being able to comment by going overboard…. Again.
Calm. Calm.
Having a wicked sense of humour and having a go at politicians is fair game, as is anyone in public life. They have to fend for themselves in open debate. Heckling is Ok when on the hustings. Having your say is one thing, but when it degenerates to personal abuse, that becoming every other post in the Politics section, this ended up with us having the comments withdrawn. How about keeping to the subject without being sidetracked, hurling abuse or “too” getting personal. If its in the internet domain its public knowledge and free to publish.
Lets not loose our luxury of being able to comment by going overboard…. Again.
Posted by: donald, glasgow on 5:13am Thu 24 Jan 08
Labour's Union Jack Tories conveniently forget their Unionst Alliance, which culminated an a meeting in London to stop any advance for the people of Scotland. This alliance has always existed and countless times they have conspired under Tory or Labour. What's the difference anyway, apart from the official Tories admitting that they are Tories? Conspiring with each other behind the Chair is not new, nor is stealing the Tories claes. Auld Labour did it before New Labour. Auld Labour pay freezes, paved the way for Thatcherism and New Labour is surpassing Thatcherism.
Labour's Union Jack Tories conveniently forget their Unionst Alliance, which culminated an a meeting in London to stop any advance for the people of Scotland. This alliance has always existed and countless times they have conspired under Tory or Labour. What's the difference anyway, apart from the official Tories admitting that they are Tories? Conspiring with each other behind the Chair is not new, nor is stealing the Tories claes. Auld Labour did it before New Labour. Auld Labour pay freezes, paved the way for Thatcherism and New Labour is surpassing Thatcherism.
Posted by: annonymoose, Glasgow on 5:14am Thu 24 Jan 08
..... and I can spell "Anonymous" for those that want to jump on me... again... like they have in the past. Its that way for a reason.
..... and I can spell "Anonymous" for those that want to jump on me... again... like they have in the past. Its that way for a reason.
Posted by: Los Angeles, Edinburgh on 5:43am Thu 24 Jan 08
Annonymoose Sees Elk In Room[quote]Lets not loose our luxury of being able to comment by going overboard…. Again.[/quote]Eh? There's hardly a pernicious peep out of posters on this forum.
So far its all tip and no iceberg.
LoL
Annonymoose Sees Elk In Room
Lets not loose our luxury of being able to comment by going overboard…. Again.
Eh? There's hardly a pernicious peep out of posters on this forum.
So far its all tip and no iceberg.
LoL
Posted by: martin, dundee on 6:03am Thu 24 Jan 08
Its official.We in Scotland now have a new political party.Its called the Lib/lab Party.I wonder how the voters in existing Liberal constituencies feel about it.
Its official.We in Scotland now have a new political party.Its called the Lib/lab Party.I wonder how the voters in existing Liberal constituencies feel about it.
Posted by: Saul Tyre, Germany on 6:33am Thu 24 Jan 08
Tony, Glasgow at 12:45am wrote:
"...LABOUR is the REAL party of scotland and that's why the GLASGOW people still vote LABOUR because the people of GLASGOW are the real SCOTS..."
Is that why less than one in five of all Glswegians on the electoral roll bothered to vote for New Labour?
[italic]"LABOUR PARTY = SCOTLAND and LABOUR cares for scotland"[/italic]
Labour party = Scotland? Are you a Stalinist or something? We say NO to a one-party state. And if Labour cares so much for Scotland, why have they done so little about poverty in Scotland and the West in particular in the last 50 years?
[italic]"SCOTLAND = UK and is not a country"[/italic]
I don't think the people of England, Wales and N. ireland would be pleased to hear that one.
[italic]"without the UK and LABOUR we would have no jobs or prosperity in scotland and would not be the most rich country in europe...becasie gordon brown has made the UK the greatest and most rich country in the western world...ask any economist![/italic]
Sorry, I'm a bit slow on the up-take this morning. Forget what I said above. I hadn't realised you were just taking the p*ss.
Tony, Glasgow at 12:45am wrote:
"...LABOUR is the REAL party of scotland and that's why the GLASGOW people still vote LABOUR because the people of GLASGOW are the real SCOTS..."
Is that why less than one in five of all Glswegians on the electoral roll bothered to vote for New Labour?
"LABOUR PARTY = SCOTLAND and LABOUR cares for scotland"
Labour party = Scotland? Are you a Stalinist or something? We say NO to a one-party state. And if Labour cares so much for Scotland, why have they done so little about poverty in Scotland and the West in particular in the last 50 years?
"SCOTLAND = UK and is not a country"
I don't think the people of England, Wales and N. ireland would be pleased to hear that one.
"without the UK and LABOUR we would have no jobs or prosperity in scotland and would not be the most rich country in europe...becasie gordon brown has made the UK the greatest and most rich country in the western world...ask any economist!
Sorry, I'm a bit slow on the up-take this morning. Forget what I said above. I hadn't realised you were just taking the p*ss.
Posted by: Saul Tyre, Germany on 6:47am Thu 24 Jan 08
After 'union-dividend' and 'cool Brtannia' backfired on them, New Labour's latest spin seems to be overuse of the word 'vulnerable'. I see that people are already getting fed up with it.
Still at least it's nice to know that New Labour has at last recognised the fact that there are a lot of vulnerable people out there.
After 'union-dividend' and 'cool Brtannia' backfired on them, New Labour's latest spin seems to be overuse of the word 'vulnerable'. I see that people are already getting fed up with it.
Still at least it's nice to know that New Labour has at last recognised the fact that there are a lot of vulnerable people out there.
Posted by: John Scotland, Glesga on 6:52am Thu 24 Jan 08
I'm growing more worried that independance for Scotland would be more than a referendum. Think of all situations even slightly similar to this, have they been peacefull?
Some sort of violance leaning towards terror and civil war, then England would step in. It could very easily happen in my judgement. If areas/religion and zones begin to coalesce it could turn ugly
I'm growing more worried that independance for Scotland would be more than a referendum. Think of all situations even slightly similar to this, have they been peacefull?
Some sort of violance leaning towards terror and civil war, then England would step in. It could very easily happen in my judgement. If areas/religion and zones begin to coalesce it could turn ugly
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