Catalan visit fosters friendship
Douglas Fraser interviews the ambassador
Alex Salmond yesterday forged a new link with a like-minded Catalan who was visiting Holyrood to learn more about plans for holding an independence referendum.
Josep-Lluis Carod-Rovira, vice-president of the government of Catalonia, is a senior member of a three-party, left of centre coalition in the
Barcelona parliament. He was in Scotland to gain an insight on how to develop a stronger national identity.
He told Catalan journalists travelling to Edinburgh that he envies the strong sense of Scottish identity and its worldwide profile, and said Catalans could learn from both. He would also prefer to follow the Scottish example by having a Catalan football team, as well as other sports, participating in international tournaments, though the Madrid Parliament has voted against this. There was praise for the British government for taking a more positive approach to Scottish identity than the Spanish government does to Catalan.
The vice-president, effectively deputy first minister in the semi-autonomous region of Spain, said there are lessons the SNP Government is keen to learn from Catalonia about its business culture and extensive network of foreign embassies, which could act as a model for Scotland.
At their meeting yesterday, Mr Salmond accepted an invitation to visit Barcelona next autumn. He turned down an offer to see Celtic play Barcelona on March 4 due to parliamentary scheduling.
A working group is also being set up to build stronger links, including foreign minister Linda Fabiani and her opposite number in the Catalan administration.
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Posted by: Sheila, Canada on 1:23am Fri 11 Jan 08
This makes good sense and it would be great to get the Basques on side too!
This makes good sense and it would be great to get the Basques on side too!
Posted by: Los Angeles, Edinburgh on 7:22am Fri 11 Jan 08
Welcome, Josep-Lluis Carod-Rovira, vice-president of the government of Catalonia. Bring some sunshine with you and good wine, and enjoy a whisky and good company!
Welcome, Josep-Lluis Carod-Rovira, vice-president of the government of Catalonia. Bring some sunshine with you and good wine, and enjoy a whisky and good company!
Posted by: Andrew Mackenzie on 8:06am Fri 11 Jan 08
It is bizarre that the Vice President of the Gov ernment of Catalonia was in Scotland to gain an insight on how to develop a stronger national identity when the SNP government doesn't even have a Gaelic Policy of its own.
It is bizarre that the Vice President of the Gov ernment of Catalonia was in Scotland to gain an insight on how to develop a stronger national identity when the SNP government doesn't even have a Gaelic Policy of its own.
Posted by: Mercutio, Falkirk on 8:14am Fri 11 Jan 08
Gaelic is used by the Fascist tendency to sloganise with their cod mottos and pen names. I suppose the word slogan is the nearest to Gaelic that most of them get.
Gaelic is used by the Fascist tendency to sloganise with their cod mottos and pen names. I suppose the word slogan is the nearest to Gaelic that most of them get.
Posted by: Los Angeles on 8:31am Fri 11 Jan 08
Mercutio in Falkirk Not Verona - Pity[quote]Gaelic is used by the Fascist tendency to sloganise with their cod mottos and pen names.[/quote] Such as "Mercutio" and "Fascist."
Mercutio in Falkirk Not Verona - Pity
Gaelic is used by the Fascist tendency to sloganise with their cod mottos and pen names.
Such as "Mercutio" and "Fascist."
Posted by: Los Angeles on 8:34am Fri 11 Jan 08
Andrew Mackenzie From Cockeyedkenzie[quote]It is bizarre that the Vice President of the Gov ernment of Catalonia was in Scotland to gain an insight on how to develop a stronger national identity when the SNP government doesn't even have a Gaelic Policy of its own.[/quote] "Bizarre"? Ah, you mean divide and rule?
I have a feeling the object of their meeting is quite the opposite.
Tell us all about your Gaelic policy.
Andrew Mackenzie From Cockeyedkenzie
It is bizarre that the Vice President of the Gov ernment of Catalonia was in Scotland to gain an insight on how to develop a stronger national identity when the SNP government doesn't even have a Gaelic Policy of its own.
"Bizarre"? Ah, you mean divide and rule?
I have a feeling the object of their meeting is quite the opposite.
Tell us all about your Gaelic policy.
Posted by: Xavier on 9:06am Fri 11 Jan 08
Salutes from Catalonia Scottish friends! You are a great inspiration for us, and the history of our nations is very similar. The difference is that being two nations, we are not recognized as that. But we'll get this. Our peacefull fight for freedom and recoignance will bring fruits soon or later.
Salutes from Catalonia Scottish friends! You are a great inspiration for us, and the history of our nations is very similar. The difference is that being two nations, we are not recognized as that. But we'll get this. Our peacefull fight for freedom and recoignance will bring fruits soon or later.
Posted by: Los Angeles, Edinburgh on 9:21am Fri 11 Jan 08
Xavier[quote]Salutes from Catalonia Scottish friends![/quote] And to you, amigo. I'll be working in Capilera, Las Alpujarres, in june and hope to visit Catalonia again a little later. Here's to independence!
Xavier
Salutes from Catalonia Scottish friends!
And to you, amigo. I'll be working in Capilera, Las Alpujarres, in june and hope to visit Catalonia again a little later. Here's to independence!
Posted by: Albert, Girona, Catalonia on 10:40am Fri 11 Jan 08
Few words from Catalonia to say that I am so glad to see how the scottish self-determination process can help us to build our own.
Hopefully our two nations are walking to a brighter future.
All the best from Catalonia!!!
Few words from Catalonia to say that I am so glad to see how the scottish self-determination process can help us to build our own.
Hopefully our two nations are walking to a brighter future.
All the best from Catalonia!!!
Posted by: gabriel, málaga, spain on 11:29am Fri 11 Jan 08
Catalonia was never a nation and won't be. Oh sorry, it was a nation,but just for a week in 1714.
Catalonia was never a nation and won't be. Oh sorry, it was a nation,but just for a week in 1714.
Posted by: Andrew Mackenzie on 1:38pm Fri 11 Jan 08
Why would anyone interested in the Gaelic language be anything other than interested in the well-being of the community.
The SNP have just taken all the hard work started by the Labour Party more than 15 years ago. They call themselves Scottish but according to their own activists the SNP have no need for such things.
Moreover, they downgraded the status of Gaelic with Linda Fabiani's
Ministerial post. The Snp have little to show for their so so cool victory.
Why would anyone interested in the Gaelic language be anything other than interested in the well-being of the community.
The SNP have just taken all the hard work started by the Labour Party more than 15 years ago. They call themselves Scottish but according to their own activists the SNP have no need for such things.
Moreover, they downgraded the status of Gaelic with Linda Fabiani's
Ministerial post. The Snp have little to show for their so so cool victory.
Posted by: Albert, Girona, Catalonia on 2:42pm Fri 11 Jan 08
[quote][bold]gabriel[/bold] wrote:
Catalonia was never a nation and won\'t be. Oh sorry, it was a nation,but just for a week in 1714.[/quote] Gabriel, dear southerner colleague:
don't worry as Spain, your nation and state, is alive (I was there, moving for a weekend trip from Catalonia one month ago and all was ok).
But don't waste your time thinking about why a pretty fair amount of catalans and basques don't feel your nation as our own.
see you in the first football match between Catalonia and Spain!!
gabriel wrote:
Catalonia was never a nation and won\'t be. Oh sorry, it was a nation,but just for a week in 1714.
Gabriel, dear southerner colleague:
don't worry as Spain, your nation and state, is alive (I was there, moving for a weekend trip from Catalonia one month ago and all was ok).
But don't waste your time thinking about why a pretty fair amount of catalans and basques don't feel your nation as our own.
see you in the first football match between Catalonia and Spain!!
Posted by: Hawick, Lothians on 3:11pm Fri 11 Jan 08
Ah, the same Mr Carod-Rivera who met with ETA and asked them not to bomb Catalonia but concentrate on the rest of Spain! That lover of freedom and democracy. The Mr Carod-Rivera whose party gets about 15% of the vote in Catalonia, if it is lucky. If I were in the SNP, I would stick clear of ERC and concentrate on the parties that really do represent mainstream Catalan opinion - CiU and the Socialists, which between them have turned Catalonia into a successful, thriving nation within Spain. A great model for Scotland, in fact.
Ah, the same Mr Carod-Rivera who met with ETA and asked them not to bomb Catalonia but concentrate on the rest of Spain! That lover of freedom and democracy. The Mr Carod-Rivera whose party gets about 15% of the vote in Catalonia, if it is lucky. If I were in the SNP, I would stick clear of ERC and concentrate on the parties that really do represent mainstream Catalan opinion - CiU and the Socialists, which between them have turned Catalonia into a successful, thriving nation within Spain. A great model for Scotland, in fact.
Posted by: gabriel, malaga, spain on 3:40pm Fri 11 Jan 08
Dear Albert,
I know perfectly the reason why some catalans and basques dont't feel Spain as their nation: they have been indoctrinated in hatred of Spain in schools for the last twenty- five years. And please, stop saying Cataluña is a nation: is just a autonomuos community and always will be.
¡Viva España y viva la Guardia Civil!
Dear Albert,
I know perfectly the reason why some catalans and basques dont't feel Spain as their nation: they have been indoctrinated in hatred of Spain in schools for the last twenty- five years. And please, stop saying Cataluña is a nation: is just a autonomuos community and always will be.
¡Viva España y viva la Guardia Civil!
Posted by: JOSE, ??? on 4:41pm Fri 11 Jan 08
VIVA ETA !!!
Posted by: Los Angeles, Edinburgh on 7:22pm Fri 11 Jan 08
Jose From Pollock[quote]VIVA ETA !!![/quote] She's that big bird that does the pole dancing down the Crusader pub, right?
Jose From Pollock
VIVA ETA !!!
She's that big bird that does the pole dancing down the Crusader pub, right?
Posted by: Los Angeles on 8:18pm Fri 11 Jan 08
Jose MacGlnchey[quote]VIVA ETA !!![/quote] She's that big lassie serves behind the bar at the local pub - right?
Jose MacGlnchey
VIVA ETA !!!
She's that big lassie serves behind the bar at the local pub - right?
Posted by: Los Angeles, Edinburgh on 8:22pm Fri 11 Jan 08
Hawick Still Weaving[quote]Ah, the same Mr Carod-Rivera who met with ETA and asked them not to bomb Catalonia but concentrate on the rest of Spain![/quote] I doubt he'd be that stupid, but I don't doubt you'd think readers stupid enough to take your word. You'd better post date, place, and time before making that calamatous slur.
Hawick Still Weaving
Ah, the same Mr Carod-Rivera who met with ETA and asked them not to bomb Catalonia but concentrate on the rest of Spain!
I doubt he'd be that stupid, but I don't doubt you'd think readers stupid enough to take your word. You'd better post date, place, and time before making that calamatous slur.
Posted by: Hawick, Lothians on 8:45am Sat 12 Jan 08
[quote][bold]Los Angeles[/bold] wrote:
Hawick Still Weaving[quote]Ah, the same Mr Carod-Rivera who met with ETA and asked them not to bomb Catalonia but concentrate on the rest of Spain![/quote] I doubt he'd be that stupid, but I don't doubt you'd think readers stupid enough to take your word. You'd better post date, place, and time before making that calamatous slur. [/quote] Here you go ...
http://www.timesonli
ne.co.uk/tol/news/wo
rld/article1023809.e
ce
http://www.mywire.co
m/pubs/AFP/2004/01/2
7/361374
http://edition.cnn.c
om/2004/WORLD/europe
/02/18/spain.eta/ind
ex.html
I am afraid it's just another inconvenient truth for you.
Los Angeles wrote:
Hawick Still WeavingAh, the same Mr Carod-Rivera who met with ETA and asked them not to bomb Catalonia but concentrate on the rest of Spain!
I doubt he'd be that stupid, but I don't doubt you'd think readers stupid enough to take your word. You'd better post date, place, and time before making that calamatous slur.
Here you go ...
http://www.timesonli
ne.co.uk/tol/news/wo
rld/article1023809.e
ce
http://www.mywire.co
m/pubs/AFP/2004/01/2
7/361374
http://edition.cnn.c
om/2004/WORLD/europe
/02/18/spain.eta/ind
ex.html
I am afraid it's just another inconvenient truth for you.
Posted by: Olad, Glasgow - Scotland on 12:47pm Sat 12 Jan 08
[quote][bold]Hawick[/bold] wrote:
[quote][bold]Los Angeles[/bold] wrote: Hawick Still Weaving[quote]Ah, the same Mr Carod-Rivera who met with ETA and asked them not to bomb Catalonia but concentrate on the rest of Spain![/quote] I doubt he\\\\\\\'d be that stupid, but I don\\\\\\\'t doubt you\\\\\\\'d think readers stupid enough to take your word. You\\\\\\\'d better post date, place, and time before making that calamatous slur. [/quote] Here you go ... http://www.timesonli ne.co.uk/tol/news/wo rld/article1023809.e ce http://www.mywire.co m/pubs/AFP/2004/01/2 7/361374 http://edition.cnn.c om/2004/WORLD/europe /02/18/spain.eta/ind ex.html I am afraid it\\\\\\\'s just another inconvenient truth for you.[/quote] Anyone knows about the past of Carod Rovira?
Anyone knows about his present?
Would anyone be a friend of a terrorist?
Would anyone be a friend of the guys who targeted Glasgow Airport?
Mr Salmond, you should find out about your friends first.
Hawick wrote:
Los Angeles wrote: Hawick Still WeavingAh, the same Mr Carod-Rivera who met with ETA and asked them not to bomb Catalonia but concentrate on the rest of Spain!
I doubt he\\\\'d be that stupid, but I don\\\\'t doubt you\\\\'d think readers stupid enough to take your word. You\\\\'d better post date, place, and time before making that calamatous slur.
Here you go ... http://www.timesonli ne.co.uk/tol/news/wo rld/article1023809.e ce http://www.mywire.co m/pubs/AFP/2004/01/2 7/361374 http://edition.cnn.c om/2004/WORLD/europe /02/18/spain.eta/ind ex.html I am afraid it\\\\'s just another inconvenient truth for you.
Anyone knows about the past of Carod Rovira?
Anyone knows about his present?
Would anyone be a friend of a terrorist?
Would anyone be a friend of the guys who targeted Glasgow Airport?
Mr Salmond, you should find out about your friends first.
Posted by: Olad, Glasgow - Scotland on 1:30pm Sat 12 Jan 08
To Mr Salmond.
Dear Mr, Salmond,
Carod-Rovira hides his real surname. His surname is Pérez, a well known Spanish surname. His father was a member of the Guardia Civil, the supposed repressive police for the freedom of Cataluña.
Carod-Rovira political party is ERC (Esquerra Republicana de Cataluña, that means Left Republicans of Catalonia, left like in Communism and Socialism) but they come from Terra Lluire, (Free Land) the equivalent of ETA. They were terrorist and they are terrorists as they boast to be. They have imposed an Apartheid in Catalonia against the people who are not wanting to be nationalist. Mr Salmond, would you impose that in Scotland? Would you treat a non nationalist Scottish person like a second class citizen?
Though I am a foreign person living in Scotland, I feel welcome as nobody is imposing me anything but the law and I have addapted to Scottish customs and traditions, but I don't want Mr Carod's Catalonia way of life to Scotland. Scotland is a nation, Catalonia WANTS to be a nation but unfortunately they are trying to impose to the population discrimatory policies and then some people are thinking about living Cataluña and go to live somewhere else, also some big international companies bringing unemployement and damaging citizen´s well being. Mr, Salmond, find out about this too.
A month or so before the Madrid bombings on 11th March 2004, Mr Carod met José Antonio Urruticoetxea (ETA number 1 terrorist) in Perpignan (Sourthern France). In that meeting Carod asked this terrorist “look at the map before putting any bomb in Spain” meaning that Cataluña is not Spain and it should be free of ETA terrorist actions. Madrid Bombings is unclear about who ordered the massacre, who put the bombs ... the only clear thing is that there were nearly two hundreds deads, thousands of wounded and the change of a democratic government that was making ETA’s life impossible, ETA was a the very brink of disolution as a terrorist organization. At present time ETA is enjoying financial funds from public budget!!!, international prestige and is seen as a freedom fighter group. Mr Carod is also responsible for this in some ways.
Mr Salmond, honestly, could you answer this question?
What would you think and do if one of your SNP members took a photograph or a rival candidate to the government of Scotland, let say Labour Party, or Liberals or Conservative Party) and stuck that picture on a polystyrene board and this member of your party stuck a real bullet of this rival candidate’s forehead and used some red liquid to similate blood and above all that he or she send this piece of art to that candidate asking him to quit politics or exile to England?
Carod’s party member did it in present time Cataluña? Don’t you think that this would be Chicago in the 20s? Is that the long way to freedom?
Your faithfully
A citizen of Scotland.
To Mr Salmond.
Dear Mr, Salmond,
Carod-Rovira hides his real surname. His surname is Pérez, a well known Spanish surname. His father was a member of the Guardia Civil, the supposed repressive police for the freedom of Cataluña.
Carod-Rovira political party is ERC (Esquerra Republicana de Cataluña, that means Left Republicans of Catalonia, left like in Communism and Socialism) but they come from Terra Lluire, (Free Land) the equivalent of ETA. They were terrorist and they are terrorists as they boast to be. They have imposed an Apartheid in Catalonia against the people who are not wanting to be nationalist. Mr Salmond, would you impose that in Scotland? Would you treat a non nationalist Scottish person like a second class citizen?
Though I am a foreign person living in Scotland, I feel welcome as nobody is imposing me anything but the law and I have addapted to Scottish customs and traditions, but I don't want Mr Carod's Catalonia way of life to Scotland. Scotland is a nation, Catalonia WANTS to be a nation but unfortunately they are trying to impose to the population discrimatory policies and then some people are thinking about living Cataluña and go to live somewhere else, also some big international companies bringing unemployement and damaging citizen´s well being. Mr, Salmond, find out about this too.
A month or so before the Madrid bombings on 11th March 2004, Mr Carod met José Antonio Urruticoetxea (ETA number 1 terrorist) in Perpignan (Sourthern France). In that meeting Carod asked this terrorist “look at the map before putting any bomb in Spain” meaning that Cataluña is not Spain and it should be free of ETA terrorist actions. Madrid Bombings is unclear about who ordered the massacre, who put the bombs ... the only clear thing is that there were nearly two hundreds deads, thousands of wounded and the change of a democratic government that was making ETA’s life impossible, ETA was a the very brink of disolution as a terrorist organization. At present time ETA is enjoying financial funds from public budget!!!, international prestige and is seen as a freedom fighter group. Mr Carod is also responsible for this in some ways.
Mr Salmond, honestly, could you answer this question?
What would you think and do if one of your SNP members took a photograph or a rival candidate to the government of Scotland, let say Labour Party, or Liberals or Conservative Party) and stuck that picture on a polystyrene board and this member of your party stuck a real bullet of this rival candidate’s forehead and used some red liquid to similate blood and above all that he or she send this piece of art to that candidate asking him to quit politics or exile to England?
Carod’s party member did it in present time Cataluña? Don’t you think that this would be Chicago in the 20s? Is that the long way to freedom?
Your faithfully
A citizen of Scotland.
Posted by: Los Angeles, Edinburgh on 6:02pm Sat 12 Jan 08
Olad the Slayer[quote]Your faithfully - A citizen of Scotland.[/quote] Are you hell.
Your post is utterly despicable. You attempt to blame the man for the bombings, rather than suggest he might have been unwise in his outburts at them. If you are prepared to do that what will you say to Blair sitting down with Paisley and Adams? Did you scream and shout when Thatcher welcomed warmly the dictator of chile, Pinochet to these shores. When the Labour party allowed a "sick man" and war criminal to go home and stick two fingers up at us, did you write to the papers to claim his release an outrage?
You spout extremism and wrapped it up in a plea as if [italic]you[/italic] are a victim of extremism. We have elected leaders and officials to govern our country, officials smart enough to know how complicated is the world - let's see what they do before you cry wolf.
The "terrorist" is [italic]you[/italic] - you aim to smear, to create fear and confusion, to incite violence. Go home - wherever that is.
Not yours at all
A REAL citizen of Scotland
Olad the Slayer
Your faithfully - A citizen of Scotland.
Are you hell.
Your post is utterly despicable. You attempt to blame the man for the bombings, rather than suggest he might have been unwise in his outburts at them. If you are prepared to do that what will you say to Blair sitting down with Paisley and Adams? Did you scream and shout when Thatcher welcomed warmly the dictator of chile, Pinochet to these shores. When the Labour party allowed a "sick man" and war criminal to go home and stick two fingers up at us, did you write to the papers to claim his release an outrage?
You spout extremism and wrapped it up in a plea as if
you are a victim of extremism. We have elected leaders and officials to govern our country, officials smart enough to know how complicated is the world - let's see what they do before you cry wolf.
The "terrorist" is
you - you aim to smear, to create fear and confusion, to incite violence. Go home - wherever that is.
Not yours at all
A REAL citizen of Scotland
Posted by: Los Angeles on 6:04pm Sat 12 Jan 08
Hawick Pretends to be Olad[quote]I am afraid it's just another inconvenient truth for you.[/quote] Take a hike. You are out to smear.
Hawick Pretends to be Olad
I am afraid it's just another inconvenient truth for you.
Take a hike. You are out to smear.
Posted by: Brian Hill, Edinburgh on 2:08am Sun 13 Jan 08
Every direct contact Scotland makes with a foreign country or region can only be a good thing. The SNP Government is acting though it were an Independent Government which is a major step towards becoming one.
The vice president was delighted with the reception he got at Holyrood when introduced by Alex Ferguson. He obviously felt it was a major gain for his Government to be a represented at Holyrood.
Every direct contact Scotland makes with a foreign country or region can only be a good thing. The SNP Government is acting though it were an Independent Government which is a major step towards becoming one.
The vice president was delighted with the reception he got at Holyrood when introduced by Alex Ferguson. He obviously felt it was a major gain for his Government to be a represented at Holyrood.
Posted by: Hawick, Lothians on 8:38am Sun 13 Jan 08
[quote][bold]Los Angeles[/bold] wrote:
Hawick Pretends to be Olad[quote]I am afraid it's just another inconvenient truth for you.[/quote] Take a hike. You are out to smear.[/quote] No I am not.
I provided the links you asked for and established the truth of my original statement. I'm sorry if you do not ike that.
I am all for establishing links with the people of Catalonia as I think it is a country that offers a marvellous vision of what Scotland could do inside the Union. Rovira represents about 15% of Catalan opinion. The real policy makers are CiU and the Socialists - neither of whom would ever seek to sit down and do deals with terrorists.
I lived in Catalonia for five years. Come back when you know a little bit more about that part of the world sonny.
Los Angeles wrote:
Hawick Pretends to be OladI am afraid it's just another inconvenient truth for you.
Take a hike. You are out to smear.
No I am not.
I provided the links you asked for and established the truth of my original statement. I'm sorry if you do not ike that.
I am all for establishing links with the people of Catalonia as I think it is a country that offers a marvellous vision of what Scotland could do inside the Union. Rovira represents about 15% of Catalan opinion. The real policy makers are CiU and the Socialists - neither of whom would ever seek to sit down and do deals with terrorists.
I lived in Catalonia for five years. Come back when you know a little bit more about that part of the world sonny.
Posted by: Hawick, Lothians on 8:50am Sun 13 Jan 08
[quote][bold]Brian Hill[/bold] wrote:
Every direct contact Scotland makes with a foreign country or region can only be a good thing. The SNP Government is acting though it were an Independent Government which is a major step towards becoming one. The vice president was delighted with the reception he got at Holyrood when introduced by Alex Ferguson. He obviously felt it was a major gain for his Government to be a represented at Holyrood.[/quote] The visit has been widely criticised in Catalonia because it was paid for by public money but it was not official business of the Catalonian government. The leader ofthe Catalonian government is Josep Montilla, a socialist born in Andalucia and a previous member of the Spanish government who opposes Catalonian independence.
Brian Hill wrote:
Every direct contact Scotland makes with a foreign country or region can only be a good thing. The SNP Government is acting though it were an Independent Government which is a major step towards becoming one. The vice president was delighted with the reception he got at Holyrood when introduced by Alex Ferguson. He obviously felt it was a major gain for his Government to be a represented at Holyrood.
The visit has been widely criticised in Catalonia because it was paid for by public money but it was not official business of the Catalonian government. The leader ofthe Catalonian government is Josep Montilla, a socialist born in Andalucia and a previous member of the Spanish government who opposes Catalonian independence.
Posted by: Los Angeles, Edinburgh on 7:20pm Sun 13 Jan 08
[quote]I provided the links you asked for and established the truth of my original statement[/quote] Your diatribe is pernicious.
Your intention is to defame.
In the big world beyond your computer, statesmen negotiate with their enemies, especially those bombing the hell out of them. Who negotiates with the friends?
As for being ill-infomed, read my earlier posts. I am a frequent visitor to Spain. For someone who claims to have lived in Catalonia, you, on the other hand, appear to have learned nothing from your time there.
Scotland and its people do not revert to the bomb as a voice mainly because our police have yet to torture us in quiet little back streets as they did their citizens so frequently in Spain under Franco. They do however fake evidence, make false accusation, and harrass, but that is a quite different thing to institutional torture. And we do have wash out British secret police from our society. So please do not insult or intelligence by implication: the visit of a politician blackens our character. We had thatcher an war criminal Blair visit us many a time. The Queen used to welcome with open arms socialist rebel and freedom fighter, Samora Michel, when he became president of Mozambique.
You are an ignoramous.
The world is a far more complicated place than the black and white one you describe.
I provided the links you asked for and established the truth of my original statement
Your diatribe is pernicious.
Your intention is to defame.
In the big world beyond your computer, statesmen negotiate with their enemies, especially those bombing the hell out of them. Who negotiates with the friends?
As for being ill-infomed, read my earlier posts. I am a frequent visitor to Spain. For someone who claims to have lived in Catalonia, you, on the other hand, appear to have learned nothing from your time there.
Scotland and its people do not revert to the bomb as a voice mainly because our police have yet to torture us in quiet little back streets as they did their citizens so frequently in Spain under Franco. They do however fake evidence, make false accusation, and harrass, but that is a quite different thing to institutional torture. And we do have wash out British secret police from our society. So please do not insult or intelligence by implication: the visit of a politician blackens our character. We had thatcher an war criminal Blair visit us many a time. The Queen used to welcome with open arms socialist rebel and freedom fighter, Samora Michel, when he became president of Mozambique.
You are an ignoramous.
The world is a far more complicated place than the black and white one you describe.
Posted by: Hawick, Lothians on 12:17pm Mon 14 Jan 08
[quote][bold]Los Angeles[/bold] wrote:
[quote]I provided the links you asked for and established the truth of my original statement[/quote] Your diatribe is pernicious. Your intention is to defame. In the big world beyond your computer, statesmen negotiate with their enemies, especially those bombing the hell out of them. Who negotiates with the friends? As for being ill-infomed, read my earlier posts. I am a frequent visitor to Spain. For someone who claims to have lived in Catalonia, you, on the other hand, appear to have learned nothing from your time there. Scotland and its people do not revert to the bomb as a voice mainly because our police have yet to torture us in quiet little back streets as they did their citizens so frequently in Spain under Franco. They do however fake evidence, make false accusation, and harrass, but that is a quite different thing to institutional torture. And we do have wash out British secret police from our society. So please do not insult or intelligence by implication: the visit of a politician blackens our character. We had thatcher an war criminal Blair visit us many a time. The Queen used to welcome with open arms socialist rebel and freedom fighter, Samora Michel, when he became president of Mozambique. You are an ignoramous. The world is a far more complicated place than the black and white one you describe. [/quote] Going to Benidorm a couple of times a year is not the same as living in a country.if you had lived there, you would know exactly who Carod-Rovira was and you would not have needed me to provide links explaining his clandestine trips to see ETA, the purpose of which was not talk peace but to get them to bomb other people.
If you are happy for our FM to consort with an apologist for terrorism instead of speaking to the people who command the real support in Catalonia then so be it.
My time in Catalonia taught me that the vast majority of Catalans do not vote for Mr Carod Rovira's party, that the person who leads the Catalan government is opposed to separation and that Catalonia - a nation inside Spain - is a dynamic, self-confident and affluent place. A perfect model for Scotland in fact.
You would make yourself look far less ridiculous if you did not comment on things you do not understand.
Los Angeles wrote:
I provided the links you asked for and established the truth of my original statement
Your diatribe is pernicious. Your intention is to defame. In the big world beyond your computer, statesmen negotiate with their enemies, especially those bombing the hell out of them. Who negotiates with the friends? As for being ill-infomed, read my earlier posts. I am a frequent visitor to Spain. For someone who claims to have lived in Catalonia, you, on the other hand, appear to have learned nothing from your time there. Scotland and its people do not revert to the bomb as a voice mainly because our police have yet to torture us in quiet little back streets as they did their citizens so frequently in Spain under Franco. They do however fake evidence, make false accusation, and harrass, but that is a quite different thing to institutional torture. And we do have wash out British secret police from our society. So please do not insult or intelligence by implication: the visit of a politician blackens our character. We had thatcher an war criminal Blair visit us many a time. The Queen used to welcome with open arms socialist rebel and freedom fighter, Samora Michel, when he became president of Mozambique. You are an ignoramous. The world is a far more complicated place than the black and white one you describe.
Going to Benidorm a couple of times a year is not the same as living in a country.if you had lived there, you would know exactly who Carod-Rovira was and you would not have needed me to provide links explaining his clandestine trips to see ETA, the purpose of which was not talk peace but to get them to bomb other people.
If you are happy for our FM to consort with an apologist for terrorism instead of speaking to the people who command the real support in Catalonia then so be it.
My time in Catalonia taught me that the vast majority of Catalans do not vote for Mr Carod Rovira's party, that the person who leads the Catalan government is opposed to separation and that Catalonia - a nation inside Spain - is a dynamic, self-confident and affluent place. A perfect model for Scotland in fact.
You would make yourself look far less ridiculous if you did not comment on things you do not understand.
Posted by: Los Angeles, Edinburgh on 3:03pm Mon 14 Jan 08
Hawick Is Moth Eaten[quote]Going to Benidorm a couple of times a year[/quote] Eh? Is this more fabrication?
It doesn't matter if a majority of the Catalonians do or don't want indenpence. Laying aside the small matter you are not appointed to speak on their behalf, it is not the issue here. You are asking us to condemn a man by implication and loose association. Your are disreputable. And you have not the modesty to desist.
Hawick Is Moth Eaten
Going to Benidorm a couple of times a year
Eh? Is this more fabrication?
It doesn't matter if a majority of the Catalonians do or don't want indenpence. Laying aside the small matter you are not appointed to speak on their behalf, it is not the issue here. You are asking us to condemn a man by implication and loose association. Your are disreputable. And you have not the modesty to desist.
Posted by: Hawick, Lothians on 9:47am Tue 15 Jan 08
[quote][bold]Los Angeles[/bold] wrote:
Hawick Is Moth Eaten[quote]Going to Benidorm a couple of times a year[/quote] Eh? Is this more fabrication? It doesn't matter if a majority of the Catalonians do or don't want indenpence. Laying aside the small matter you are not appointed to speak on their behalf, it is not the issue here. You are asking us to condemn a man by implication and loose association. Your are disreputable. And you have not the modesty to desist. [/quote] As I said, you would make yourself look far less ridiculous if you did not comment on things you did not understand.
I am not asking you to condemn anyone. I am merely pointing out that Mr Carod Rovira did not visit Scotland on behlaf of the Catalan government, represents a minority view in Catalonia and is happy for terrorists to bomb other parts of Spain just as long as they are not bombing Catalonia.
Los Angeles wrote:
Hawick Is Moth EatenGoing to Benidorm a couple of times a year
Eh? Is this more fabrication? It doesn't matter if a majority of the Catalonians do or don't want indenpence. Laying aside the small matter you are not appointed to speak on their behalf, it is not the issue here. You are asking us to condemn a man by implication and loose association. Your are disreputable. And you have not the modesty to desist.
As I said, you would make yourself look far less ridiculous if you did not comment on things you did not understand.
I am not asking you to condemn anyone. I am merely pointing out that Mr Carod Rovira did not visit Scotland on behlaf of the Catalan government, represents a minority view in Catalonia and is happy for terrorists to bomb other parts of Spain just as long as they are not bombing Catalonia.
Posted by: Los Angeles, Edinburgh on 4:08pm Tue 15 Jan 08
Hawick Says Everybody guilty Except Him[quote]As I said, you would make yourself look far less ridiculous if you did not comment on things you did not understand.[/quote] This sentence is attributal to your incautious outburst. You have actually committed libel but that doesn't seem to trouble you.
Hawick Says Everybody guilty Except Him
As I said, you would make yourself look far less ridiculous if you did not comment on things you did not understand.
This sentence is attributal to your incautious outburst. You have actually committed libel but that doesn't seem to trouble you.
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