
Alexander calls for tax powers to replace the Barnett formula
Wendy Alexander yesterday called for a Scottish Constitutional Commission to draw up plans over the next year for the Barnett funding formula to be replaced.
The controversial 29-year-old system for the Treasury granting money to Scotland would be replaced by significant new powers for Scotland to set levels for some taxes and to be assigned a share of other taxes set in London. There would be a smaller block grant based on a new assessment of need.
The Scottish Labour leader suggested welfare and road traffic law could be among more powers to be devolved.
Her speech at Edinburgh University was one of the most significant developments in the home rule debate in recent years. It represented a major challenge to Prime Minister Gordon Brown, Chancellor Alistair Darling and other Scottish Labour MPs at Westminster, where there has been resistance to revisiting the powers set out in the 1998 Scotland Act and where the implications could be complex.
There was a reminder to her party of what happened to Tory support in Scotland when it stood against constitutional change, and she argued that Labour had won support when it had been "the party of ideas on the constitution".
She said that unless it developed an alternative to independence, there was a risk people would assume that was their only choice.
Ms Alexander, one of the architects of devolution as adviser to Donald Dewar, admitted the tax powers Holyrood has are the wrong ones. She said developments had to be secured alongside the rest of the UK, adding: "The Union needs to be a comfortable home for all its members."
She said the Constitutional Commission had to be independent and expert-led, to develop "a more balanced home rule package", possibly including some powers being returned to Westminster.
The speech was overshadowed by the controversy swirling around Ms Alexander over financial donations to her leadership campaign. But if she survives, it marks new territory for Scottish Labour and prepares the ground for a cross-party agreement between unionist parties.
That is scheduled to be sealed next week, when Labour uses its debating time at Holyrood to table a motion that would endorse the Constitutional Commission.
With the support of Tories and LibDems, and therefore assured of a majority, this will make it clear that it is to look at developments for Scotland within the UK, meaning the SNP will not support it.
In another St Andrew's Day speech, Tory leader Annabel Goldie backed the idea of an independently-chaired commission, saying the future of home rule "lies in making devolution deliver, not in forced divorce".
LibDem leader Nicol Stephen wrote to party activists arguing that Scotland could learn from Spain about the way forward for home rule, and said that there should be a "gutsy" approach to further reform.
SNP leader Alex Salmond said the moves in unionist parties towards more powers were part of the growing support for a referendum.
The unionist parties' proposal of a Constitutional Commission would be a similar model to the Scottish Constitutional Convention which paved the way towards devolution in the early 1990s.
Two months into her leadership, Ms Alexander's speech put the future of Scotland in historical perspective, arguing Labour's founder, Keir Hardie, was among those demanding home rule within the United Kingdom before there was significant support for independence.
Ms Alexander admitted the SNP "was not unimportant" to the home rule cause, but stressed that its electoral success in May was based on a promise not to move to independence without a further vote.
She said support for nationalists since 1967 had represented a Scottish "cry of dissent from an increasingly centralised British state".
The speech argued devolution as it now existed was weakened because it was conceived as being forced on a reluctant Westminster government, rather than being negotiated.
It then focused on spending money, instead of considering how taxes could be levied. As a result, the tax allowing MSPs to vary basic rate income tax by 3p up or down was approved 10 years ago "at precisely the point at which many were realising elsewhere the need for a more sophisticated approach to taxation".
This was a speech that sought to move Labour away from scare stories about the break-up of Britain, making a more positive case for sharing resources, revenue and risks across the UK.
It will take time before Labour can reorient itself from its woes, but when it does, it should not underestimate the significance of the challenge Alexander set her Westminster comrades.
Plans for new powers
Calls for an expert-led, independent Scottish Constitutional Commission.
The second stage of devolution to be developed alongside other parts of the UK.
The Treasury block grant should be replaced by new tax powers, assigned revenue from some taxes still controlled at Westminster, as well as a block grant to recognise additional needs in Scotland.
More powers for Holyrood, such as welfare-to-work and road traffic law, with some powers passed back to Westminster, such as counter-terrorism and contingency planning.
No mention of the commission's plan being put to a referendum.
© All rights reserved. Reproduction in whole or in part without
permission is prohibited.
Posted by: doonhamer on 12:34am Sat 1 Dec 07
Not only taxes, but Scotland should have control over all revenues from her industry or from her resources. The very same rights that are given to any sovereign nation.
Not only taxes, but Scotland should have control over all revenues from her industry or from her resources. The very same rights that are given to any sovereign nation.
Posted by: Los Angeles, Edinburgh on 12:58am Sat 1 Dec 07
Agreed, Doonhammer, but the clammer for reputations, careers, and shirts, has drowned out that debate. Another conspiracy- just joshing.
Agreed, Doonhammer, but the clammer for reputations, careers, and shirts, has drowned out that debate. Another conspiracy- just joshing.
Posted by: Scunnert, Travelling in Nihlon on 5:44am Sat 1 Dec 07
The crook Alexander has no voice left in this country. She has nothing to offer, nothing to contribute, and any self respecting Scot will shun her.
The crook Alexander has no voice left in this country. She has nothing to offer, nothing to contribute, and any self respecting Scot will shun her.
Posted by: Wullie, Aberdeen on 5:50am Sat 1 Dec 07
Your up early Scunnert.
Posted by: Juan Kerr and his magic hand....., Securicor van court 3.............. on 5:52am Sat 1 Dec 07
"Alexdander calls for tax powers to replace the Barnett formula " - headline typo
Hows about this:
Alex Danger - May spotantiously combust and leave the labour party unelectable for 50 years??Like Anthax on Guinard.
"Alexdander calls for tax powers to replace the Barnett formula " - headline typo
Hows about this:
Alex Danger - May spotantiously combust and leave the labour party unelectable for 50 years??Like Anthax on Guinard.
Posted by: Scunnert, Travelling in Nihlon on 6:24am Sat 1 Dec 07
Shooda? - Shooda? - Naw!
Posted by: donald, glasgow on 6:49am Sat 1 Dec 07
Just another UNIONIST tactic to delay the inevitable, like Devolution. Only Independence will suffice
Just another UNIONIST tactic to delay the inevitable, like Devolution. Only Independence will suffice
Posted by: Barry (The Elder), London, England on 7:50am Sat 1 Dec 07
Wendy Alexander is talking into the wind, neither the Prime Minister nor his chancellor have any wish to review the Barnett Formula (Scotland's Block Grant) because to do so would leave them vunerable to the Scottish electorate come the next election. What Scotland needs in my opion is financial automany away from the Westminster Govt, which would lead to independance then the act of union 1707 would be totally breeched, then maybe we in England who want an English Parliament will be granted our wish, good luck to the SNP
Wendy Alexander is talking into the wind, neither the Prime Minister nor his chancellor have any wish to review the Barnett Formula (Scotland's Block Grant) because to do so would leave them vunerable to the Scottish electorate come the next election. What Scotland needs in my opion is financial automany away from the Westminster Govt, which would lead to independance then the act of union 1707 would be totally breeched, then maybe we in England who want an English Parliament will be granted our wish, good luck to the SNP
Posted by: Juan Kerr and his magic hand....., ETH EN.... PEE...oops i've had an accident.... on 8:42am Sat 1 Dec 07
She was against any change. Now she's in trouble and the back is against the wall she now wants change.
Cynical and self interest serving measure designed solely to save her neck and shift attention.
Sorry wendy. You could say your from mars today to shift attention, and everyone would still be looking at your criminal tendencies!
She was against any change. Now she's in trouble and the back is against the wall she now wants change.
Cynical and self interest serving measure designed solely to save her neck and shift attention.
Sorry wendy. You could say your from mars today to shift attention, and everyone would still be looking at your criminal tendencies!
Posted by: martin, dundee on 8:46am Sat 1 Dec 07
This statement from Alexander represents a major shift in London Labours approach to the success of the SNP. They have finally realised that in order to gain power they will have to be (or at least be seen to be) more nationalistic.Howeve
r, It is inevitable that more tax raising powers brings Scotland closer to independence so it is a dangerous game Labour are playing here.
The SNP victory has indeed been a seminal moment in Scottish politics.
This statement from Alexander represents a major shift in London Labours approach to the success of the SNP. They have finally realised that in order to gain power they will have to be (or at least be seen to be) more nationalistic.Howeve
r, It is inevitable that more tax raising powers brings Scotland closer to independence so it is a dangerous game Labour are playing here.
The SNP victory has indeed been a seminal moment in Scottish politics.
Posted by: The West Awake, Argyll on 9:53am Sat 1 Dec 07
Labour have been lead, kicking and screaming all the way, to constitutional change and have come up with...
- the minimum they think might keep us from revolt.
Yawn! We've been here before, with devolution. That didn't work, and this minimalist, hold the tide back desperation won't either. Labour are just too dumb and scared to see it.
Incidentally, I loved this wee gem from that charistmatic intellectual Nicol Stephen...
"Scotland could learn from Spain about the way forward for home rule"
Is that right Nicol? It has obviously escaped Nicols tiny wee mind that Spain is the one nation in Western Europe where the constitution and questions of sovereignty have resulted in an ongoing Civil War!
No wonder the Lib Dems are floundering, if thats their leader!
Labour have been lead, kicking and screaming all the way, to constitutional change and have come up with...
- the minimum they think might keep us from revolt.
Yawn! We've been here before, with devolution. That didn't work, and this minimalist, hold the tide back desperation won't either. Labour are just too dumb and scared to see it.
Incidentally, I loved this wee gem from that charistmatic intellectual Nicol Stephen...
"Scotland could learn from Spain about the way forward for home rule"
Is that right Nicol? It has obviously escaped Nicols tiny wee mind that Spain is the one nation in Western Europe where the constitution and questions of sovereignty have resulted in an ongoing Civil War!
No wonder the Lib Dems are floundering, if thats their leader!
Posted by: bairn, falkirk on 10:09am Sat 1 Dec 07
why is everybody nasty to bendy wendy she has said she was sorry
lots of little girls tell fibs and get put to bed . Take her toys away and do not let her play with these rough boys
why is everybody nasty to bendy wendy she has said she was sorry
lots of little girls tell fibs and get put to bed . Take her toys away and do not let her play with these rough boys
Posted by: CJM, west lothian on 10:49am Sat 1 Dec 07
Barry ( the Elder )
Scotland thanks you for your good wishes.
RE. Wendy , apparently the Police are afraid of the political fallout otherwise she would be in custody ??????????????????
Barry ( the Elder )
Scotland thanks you for your good wishes.
RE. Wendy , apparently the Police are afraid of the political fallout otherwise she would be in custody ??????????????????
Posted by: Wullie on 11:27am Sat 1 Dec 07
Seems that the logic of controlling ones resources and making one own choices is spreading.
Seems that this idea is now not just the preserve of the Ethenpee so why was it opposed root and branch wfor so long with dire predictions of doom?
The people of Scotland want more authority over their lives - and why not.
Such aspiration is not criminal unlike some of the more recent shenanigans that keep coming to light by the Party who were swept from power in May and who will be swept from power in Westminster whenever they are finally have to submit to an election..
Seems that the logic of controlling ones resources and making one own choices is spreading.
Seems that this idea is now not just the preserve of the Ethenpee so why was it opposed root and branch wfor so long with dire predictions of doom?
The people of Scotland want more authority over their lives - and why not.
Such aspiration is not criminal unlike some of the more recent shenanigans that keep coming to light by the Party who were swept from power in May and who will be swept from power in Westminster whenever they are finally have to submit to an election..
Posted by: John Leven, Leven Fife on 12:22pm Sat 1 Dec 07
I loved the line " Ms Alexander admitted the SNP "was not unimportant" to the home rule cause, but stressed that its electoral success in May was based on a promise not to move to independence without a further vote.
Not unimportant, she is a joke. The only reason she made this speech after years of scaremongering was because the SNP are important. They are the only important thing in Scottish politics at the moment, everyone else is trailing in their wake.
As she has also acknowledged in this speech that the electoral success of the SNP was based on the promise not to move to independence without a vote, it therefore follows that she and the other unionist parties are opposing the will of the people of Scotland by denying them the right to a free democratic referendum. The will of 70% of the population who want a referendum should not be ignored.
Yet again, as with bottler Browns UK general election new Labour are too chicken to hold an election they "know" they will win.
Chicken Alexander and Chicken Brown are very unappetizing dishes.
P.S. In Wendys case, who cares she is now irrelevant in Scotland, in or out of office.
I loved the line " Ms Alexander admitted the SNP "was not unimportant" to the home rule cause, but stressed that its electoral success in May was based on a promise not to move to independence without a further vote.
Not unimportant, she is a joke. The only reason she made this speech after years of scaremongering was because the SNP are important. They are the only important thing in Scottish politics at the moment, everyone else is trailing in their wake.
As she has also acknowledged in this speech that the electoral success of the SNP was based on the promise not to move to independence without a vote, it therefore follows that she and the other unionist parties are opposing the will of the people of Scotland by denying them the right to a free democratic referendum. The will of 70% of the population who want a referendum should not be ignored.
Yet again, as with bottler Browns UK general election new Labour are too chicken to hold an election they "know" they will win.
Chicken Alexander and Chicken Brown are very unappetizing dishes.
P.S. In Wendys case, who cares she is now irrelevant in Scotland, in or out of office.
Posted by: SWBF on 12:48pm Sat 1 Dec 07
to Barry the Elder.
Cheers mate, we appreciate the problems England are having at the moment, A fairer system is indeed needed but the results will leave London poorer. London gets more money per head public spending than any other UK region. if we were to spend the same on every person no-matter where they are in the UK, London the SE, south and Scotland would all be worse off and the other 9 regions would be better off.
to Barry the Elder.
Cheers mate, we appreciate the problems England are having at the moment, A fairer system is indeed needed but the results will leave London poorer. London gets more money per head public spending than any other UK region. if we were to spend the same on every person no-matter where they are in the UK, London the SE, south and Scotland would all be worse off and the other 9 regions would be better off.
Posted by: indyleith, Edinburgh on 1:46pm Sat 1 Dec 07
Re; Barry The Elder.
Thanks for that Barry, i agree with you and shows despite all this sleaze with self interest , greed, deceit and lies, that there are still decent people out there who can see right through new labour.
We have been fighting the smears from our so called scottish (with a small n) unionist press who fight all labours battles for them with vitroilic lies and contempt against people in Scotland but the people woke up and put labour out and the SNP in.
Its a matter of when scotland is independent now, they know it and we know it.
I also say good luck to England and hope it gets the government representing the kind of country they want. I know Scotland and 'England will work much better as independent neighbours in a modern relationship for the future.
You are spot on - Wendy can whistle in the wind in our out of office as she is damaged goods just like new labour.
Re; Barry The Elder.
Thanks for that Barry, i agree with you and shows despite all this sleaze with self interest , greed, deceit and lies, that there are still decent people out there who can see right through new labour.
We have been fighting the smears from our so called scottish (with a small n) unionist press who fight all labours battles for them with vitroilic lies and contempt against people in Scotland but the people woke up and put labour out and the SNP in.
Its a matter of when scotland is independent now, they know it and we know it.
I also say good luck to England and hope it gets the government representing the kind of country they want. I know Scotland and 'England will work much better as independent neighbours in a modern relationship for the future.
You are spot on - Wendy can whistle in the wind in our out of office as she is damaged goods just like new labour.
Posted by: Mr. Lachie Todd, Edinburgh on 2:53pm Sat 1 Dec 07
Both the Prime Minister's expected, yet belated, call for State funding of political parties, and the leader of the Labour Party in Scotland in her call for the abolition of Barnet and fiscal autonomy, are desperately clutching at life jackets in their attempt to keep the Labour ship afloat!
Previously the Labour Party in Scotland was utterly opposed to any change in Barnet, or any use of tax raising powers, but Ms. Alexander is dangling further devolved powers for the Scottish Parliament in her desperate attempt to regain the Unionist initiative.
Ms. Alexander forgets that the parliamentary and constitutional differences between Westminster and Holyrood are within spitting distance?
The United Kingdom is now a quasi-Federal State in everything but constitutional name!
The European Union Parliament already sets Value Added Tax(VAT)
rates applicable to the U.K. and administers the Common Agriculture Policy(CAP) on behalf of all the U.K.'s Rural Affairs departments!
Like many Federal arrangements, Westminster still reserves Defence, Foreign Affairs, Work and Pensions and Broadcasting.
The Scottish Parliament, along with the new power-sharing Executive at the Northern Ireland Assembly, and to a lesser extent the Welsh Assembly Government, deal with just about every other aspect of U.K. government!
Sovereignty is now the major issue!
Both the Prime Minister's expected, yet belated, call for State funding of political parties, and the leader of the Labour Party in Scotland in her call for the abolition of Barnet and fiscal autonomy, are desperately clutching at life jackets in their attempt to keep the Labour ship afloat!
Previously the Labour Party in Scotland was utterly opposed to any change in Barnet, or any use of tax raising powers, but Ms. Alexander is dangling further devolved powers for the Scottish Parliament in her desperate attempt to regain the Unionist initiative.
Ms. Alexander forgets that the parliamentary and constitutional differences between Westminster and Holyrood are within spitting distance?
The United Kingdom is now a quasi-Federal State in everything but constitutional name!
The European Union Parliament already sets Value Added Tax(VAT)
rates applicable to the U.K. and administers the Common Agriculture Policy(CAP) on behalf of all the U.K.'s Rural Affairs departments!
Like many Federal arrangements, Westminster still reserves Defence, Foreign Affairs, Work and Pensions and Broadcasting.
The Scottish Parliament, along with the new power-sharing Executive at the Northern Ireland Assembly, and to a lesser extent the Welsh Assembly Government, deal with just about every other aspect of U.K. government!
Sovereignty is now the major issue!
Posted by: chris thomson on 3:17pm Sat 1 Dec 07
Presumably Wendy Alexander does not know that a Constitutional Commission already exists...www.constit
utionalcommission.or
g
If she does know, why is she suggesting that another one be set up?
Presumably Wendy Alexander does not know that a Constitutional Commission already exists...www.constit
utionalcommission.or
g
If she does know, why is she suggesting that another one be set up?
Posted by: WJ, Ayrshire on 3:28pm Sat 1 Dec 07
[quote][bold]chris thomson[/bold] wrote:
Presumably Wendy Alexander does not know that a Constitutional Commission already exists...www.constit
utionalcommission.or
g
If she does know, why is she suggesting that another one be set up?[/quote] Because her labour media lovey's such as Douglas Fraser would be forced to concentrate all their efforts on the corruption issue otherwise.
chris thomson wrote:
Presumably Wendy Alexander does not know that a Constitutional Commission already exists...www.constit
utionalcommission.or
g
If she does know, why is she suggesting that another one be set up?
Because her labour media lovey's such as Douglas Fraser would be forced to concentrate all their efforts on the corruption issue otherwise.
Posted by: I'm no really here on 6:02pm Sat 1 Dec 07
It's great fun reading about the Labour Party sincerity about wanting more powers for Holyrood. Just 6-months ago Labour (Wendy included) campaigned on a platform of No More Power for Holyrood.
Lets put this beside their outright lies over party funding. They lied until they were found out, and then protests "it was an honest mistake". What make anyone believe that they are in anyway sincere about this.
Ask yourself. Is the political future of Scotland better in the hands of the SNP, or Labour.
It's great fun reading about the Labour Party sincerity about wanting more powers for Holyrood. Just 6-months ago Labour (Wendy included) campaigned on a platform of No More Power for Holyrood.
Lets put this beside their outright lies over party funding. They lied until they were found out, and then protests "it was an honest mistake". What make anyone believe that they are in anyway sincere about this.
Ask yourself. Is the political future of Scotland better in the hands of the SNP, or Labour.
Posted by: Time For a Change on 6:22pm Sat 1 Dec 07
[bold]Want to read how Gordon Brown responded to tough questions on the donations row currently engulfing the Labour Party?
If yes, don't bother visiting the official Downing Street website.
Civil servants have removed all mention at this week's PM press conference of David Abrahams, Jon Mendelsohn and other players in this complex drama[/bold]
Thats what you do when you have control. Remove what you don't like from the records. Its like th Nazis denying the war.
Well Herr Broon, Iron Chnacelllor and Thumping Fist - we know what your Brown Shirts are all about - and we don't like it!
Want to read how Gordon Brown responded to tough questions on the donations row currently engulfing the Labour Party?
If yes, don't bother visiting the official Downing Street website.
Civil servants have removed all mention at this week's PM press conference of David Abrahams, Jon Mendelsohn and other players in this complex drama
Thats what you do when you have control. Remove what you don't like from the records. Its like th Nazis denying the war.
Well Herr Broon, Iron Chnacelllor and Thumping Fist - we know what your Brown Shirts are all about - and we don't like it!
Posted by: I'm no really here on 6:23pm Sat 1 Dec 07
It's great fun reading about the Labour Party sincerity about wanting more powers for Holyrood. Just 6-months ago Labour (Wendy included) campaigned on a platform of No More Power for Holyrood.
Lets put this beside their outright lies over party funding. They lied until they were found out, and then protests "it was an honest mistake". What make anyone believe that they are in anyway sincere about this.
Ask yourself. Is the political future of Scotland better in the hands of the SNP, or Labour.
It's great fun reading about the Labour Party sincerity about wanting more powers for Holyrood. Just 6-months ago Labour (Wendy included) campaigned on a platform of No More Power for Holyrood.
Lets put this beside their outright lies over party funding. They lied until they were found out, and then protests "it was an honest mistake". What make anyone believe that they are in anyway sincere about this.
Ask yourself. Is the political future of Scotland better in the hands of the SNP, or Labour.
Posted by: John Duncan, Inverurie on 10:52am Mon 3 Dec 07
[quote][bold]Scunnert[/bold] wrote:
Shooda? - Shooda? - Naw![/quote] SCUNNERT
Quite right son........ignore the clown !!!
Even as someone born and raised in Aberdeenshire his conduct is too, too banal and ignorant to address....boring man !!
Scunnert wrote:
Shooda? - Shooda? - Naw!
SCUNNERT
Quite right son........ignore the clown !!!
Even as someone born and raised in Aberdeenshire his conduct is too, too banal and ignorant to address....boring man !!
Posted by: Stephen, London, England on 1:03am Tue 15 Jan 08
Barry ( The Elder).
Well put, Scotland needs to be genuinely free to sort out its own affairs, financial and otherwise - as does England. Only The SNP will deliver this for Scotland. Not sure who is on England's side when viewed from down here though. Certainly not ScotLab or the Tories.
Barry ( The Elder).
Well put, Scotland needs to be genuinely free to sort out its own affairs, financial and otherwise - as does England. Only The SNP will deliver this for Scotland. Not sure who is on England's side when viewed from down here though. Certainly not ScotLab or the Tories.
