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ooh look they are ganging up on us in england as well.

Ah, an attempt to build a coalition against independence? I don't see the Labour Party trying to build bridges between themselves and the SNP. If anything, Wendy Alexander's approach has been more of the same; a return to the same approach that her brother engineered prior to the election. Diss the Nats! There's nothing like forging ahead with failed practices.

Well I really do think you (Gregor Addison) should,perhaps,give Wendy Alexander a chance but judging by your usual postings I won't be holding my breath!! As for "Diss the Nats!", I really don't see much evidence of this. Would you really expect the official Opposition not to question, analyse and challenge the policies and manifesto commitments of the minority SNP administration in Holyrood? A strong Opposition will serve to keep the 'executive' in check, and I can assure you it is definitely needed and I am safe in assuming I speak for the vast majority of Scots in that. We have too much to lose by a populist approach (very much favoured by Wee Eck), which could result in 'boom' and 'bust' economics which would be to Scotland's detriment. Remember you read it here first.

Gordon Brown who bears a striking resemblance to Tony Hancock. Even his friends have slagged off OLD MISERY GUTS. calling him a STALINIST CONTROL FREAK. With friends like that who needs enemies. I love the way he puts on that PHONEY SMILE. Its more like a GRIMACE. The Grim Reaper is more cheerful than Brown is. Youy Obedient Servant Addison De Witt

Brown is so at it focus groups talk of consensus politics brown is giving the veneeer they are all tories now cameron should trump Brown use his rhetoric and ask him into the Tory party :-)

[quote][bold]Mike Simpson[/bold] wrote: Well I really do think you (Gregor Addison) should,perhaps,give Wendy Alexander a chance but judging by your usual postings I won\\\'t be holding my breath!! As for \\\"Diss the Nats!\\\", I really don\\\'t see much evidence of this. Would you really expect the official Opposition not to question, analyse and challenge the policies and manifesto commitments of the minority SNP administration in Holyrood? A strong Opposition will serve to keep the \\\'executive\\\' in check, and I can assure you it is definitely needed and I am safe in assuming I speak for the vast majority of Scots in that. We have too much to lose by a populist approach (very much favoured by Wee Eck), which could result in \\\'boom\\\' and \\\'bust\\\' economics which would be to Scotland\\\'s detriment. Remember you read it here first. [/quote] Simpson. Blackholes, Populist , Boom and Bust, Question , Analyse ,Challenge, you sound and act more like your heroes everytime i see one of your posts.Are you not capable of thinking for yourself instead of repeating the garbage the polititians keep spouting.You are the type of idiot that believes then repeats everything the unionist parties say almost word for word.Dont you understand labour was finally rejected by people because of their inane ranting about how we are all doomed by independence and we couldnt stand on our own feet without westminster propping us up up . Maybe you could also answer me this question too. If we cant govern ourselves. If we cant stand on our on two feet. If we cant survive without Westminster. If we are heading down this blackhole. Then how is it that Jack McConnell was at pains to say that we are ...The best wee country in the world and that we are pure dead brilliant?. The Labour party are a bunch of two faced twats who will say and do anything to regain power. PS mike simpson Remember you read THAT here first.

HEY Pencildick I like the Labour WOMBAT Mike Simpleton. I find his DOPEY , HOKEY, KOOKY views very amusing. We gotta have at least ONE NUT on this forum. And he fills that gap pefectly. This Labour KLINGON from a distant galaxy is the best advert for voting for Alex Salmond and Independence. In the old days we would go to the freak show and look at the bearded lady now we look at Mike Simpletons comments and laugh. Your Obedient Servant Addison De Witt

Macavity wants concensus politics, only as long as he is PM and no one else.

Thanks MIke, I value your opinion. Thanks for reading my posts so assiduously. I suspect your strong "opposition" might find it harder getting on with one another than you expect. As for giving Wendy Alexander a chance, I'll wait until I see some form of recognition that the Labour Party has abandoned its social roots and seeks to do something about it. Now that would be radical thinking, wouldn't it?

Mike, Nothing to say about out new nuclear warheads and the cost, or have central control not issued the guidance yet? Ask wee wendy about a black hole thingy.

Gregor Addison, its amusing to hear you accuse Labour of abandoning its social roots with the SNP coming out with policies like tax breaks for business but not ordinary people, reducing the size of government and of course being funded by Scotland's only billionaire and the charming Brian Souter. Are these policies rooted in Scotland's socialist tradition? pencildick, keep up your line of thought there, I like what I'm seeing, your intolerance will only do Labour good for the General Election and 2011. In all honesty, what Brown should do next is invite one of the SNP MPs (maybe that open-minded parliamentarian McNeil) to advise the Scottish Office. Sure they will have disagreements, but the same logic of this "government of all the talents" will apply - if the MP accepts, it proves how Labour can have an open and inclusive approach to government - if the MP declines, it makes him and the party look self-interested and short-sighted.

So Brown is following Alex Salmonds lead and wanting consensual politics eh?

Why does Broon not go the whole hog and invite Cameron into his government? That would be a logical extension of his position wouldn't it? Therafter, no need for messy elections anymore. Permanent Zanu/ NuLab/PF under Mugabe Broon. Looks like Sir Alex is the only opposition left.

Frank @ 9:46am [quote]funded by Scotland's only billionaire[/quote] I thought Tom Hunter was Scotland's richest man. Sorry, SIR Tom; he is not an SNP funder.

[quote]He said: "I believe that [bold]Britain[/bold] needs a new type of politics which embraces everyone in the [bold]nation[/bold] [/quote] British nationalist, eh? When do the BNP get an invite to No.10?

The man couldn't have a more apt surname unless it was double barrelled and ending in "Nose"). Just like he claims he supports England at football, he is attemping to placate the conservative and lib dem voters and like the labour party we all know and love, he is pushing apathy in order to remain in power. Brown nosing, pension stealing, nae baws broon... surely he can't last.

And so the election campaign starts: Broon's new vision Broon not ruling out a snap election David Alexander ruling out a snap election Scottish newspapers lovefest with Wendy Alexander

Now that the Labour/Conservative/ Lib Dem parties are starting to merge physically as well as ideologically this gives the nationalist movement a real boost. Nationalism is now the only real alternative to this Unionist confederation. Scotland and Wales have already recognised this and the battle lines are drawn. England unfortunately still needs a jab with a sharp stick to get the electorate to recognise that voting for any of the three main parties is voting for the same thing - Unionism. It isn't voting for a minor party that makes for a wasted vote - it's voting for any of the big three. Wæs hæil

[quote][bold]Frank[/bold] wrote: Gregor Addison, its amusing to hear you accuse Labour of abandoning its social roots with the SNP coming out with policies like tax breaks for business but not ordinary people, reducing the size of government and of course being funded by Scotland\'s only billionaire and the charming Brian Souter. Are these policies rooted in Scotland\'s socialist tradition? pencildick, keep up your line of thought there, I like what I\'m seeing, your intolerance will only do Labour good for the General Election and 2011. In all honesty, what Brown should do next is invite one of the SNP MPs (maybe that open-minded parliamentarian McNeil) to advise the Scottish Office. Sure they will have disagreements, but the same logic of this \"government of all the talents\" will apply - if the MP accepts, it proves how Labour can have an open and inclusive approach to government - if the MP declines, it makes him and the party look self-interested and short-sighted. [/quote] Frank - You make some good points, can I comment?; 1. By "social roots" I take this to mean left-wing or, dare I mention the "S" word, socialism. If so you will have a hard job convincing anyone, including many Labour supporters, Labour has not abandoned that set of roots. 2. "Ordinary" people (me included) would prefer better services, like more police, teachers, A&E units etc) than more tax breaks, which is core Tory philosophy. Business rates need to flexible for us in Scotland because our economy is different to England's. 3. Certain bits of our government badly need reduced. 4. As Labour supporter I can't take criticism of SNP ffunders from you seriously, remember "cash for honours"? 5. I agree entirely with you about Brown inviting an SNP representative, but would remind you this is the man who said he wouldn't talk to the SNP (unlike the SNP's position). I think this would be welcomed by the SNP but considered a "bridge too far" by Brown. - in fact I hope for your sake Labour HQ hasn't read your suggestion!

"Gordon Brown underlined his promise of "a new type of politics" yesterday with the appointment of two Tory MPs and a Liberal Democrat to the ranks of government advisers." A crafty move by Brown, the same old policies but a new spin. Why the conservatives haven't kicked Bercow and Mercer out for aiding another party is beyond me. The same goes for the Lib-Dems. Brown's making the runnning simply because he appears to be up against two idiots in England. Why vote Conservative or Lib-Dem when they're already in Government? It'll be difficult for the Conservatives or the Lib-Dems to oppose the advice these advisors give to the government. If they do, they'll be accused of party politics as Tories or Lib-Dems were at the helm when the advice was given to the government, if they don't, they'll look weak. "I believe that Britain needs a new type of politics which embraces everyone in the nation, not just a few. A politics built on consensus, not division..." I'd go with art1000, Dunfermline on 10:38am today, it's an attempt to sideline both the Conservatives and the Lib-Dems and create a permanent, "national", NuLab government. The threat from Scotland and Wales to the UK and Brown's British nationalism is causing him to think in terms of one British party for one British State. It's time Scotland left the UK and let "British" Broon and Dave "The Toff" Cameron fight it out in England from a save distance. Ming can hold the coats as always.

[quote]We have too much to lose by a populist approach (very much favoured by Wee Eck)[/quote] We Eck, as you call him, can and does address a meeting of Peterhead fishermen and dockers, or a meeting of City financiers and does it with ability and flair for he's researched his speech and knows who he's talking to. The working people of Scotland support Alex Salmold. Because this is his and our credo: [italic]"It is a basic tenet of my philosophy that a society can be judged on how it treats its weakest members – the sick, the disabled, the young and the elderly. Attacks on social provision for any of those cannot be defended in any humane society. Our concern has always been for the poor, and for those struggling on the margins of society. We do not seek as our first priority to make the rich richer and the powerful more powerful. Those who believe that that is what the aim of the government should be could not support us. Our party was founded on concepts of social justice and equality. It was founded by working men and women who could see from the experience of their daily lives the injustice of prevailing social conditions. They set out to change their society to ensure that the resources of the community were more fairly distributed, so that every member of the community could share in the wealth that the community had created."[/italic] I quoted the words of Helen Clark, the Prime Minister of New Zealand. We certainly haven't asked for any "populist approach", and don't get and don't need any appeal to readers of the Record, Sun, Star, Times or Playboy or Hustler Magazines that Wendy Alexander or David Cameron might court.

Dear All This is to the editor of the Herald regarding his comments on Brown's brave new world. “Welcome to the new world”. A quote from the movie, The Hunt for Red October, unfortunately the editor is wide of the mark, there is no “new world”. “That, at least, is what Gordon Brown and his advisers would have us believe”. Why not just say Brown has a gimmick to try and build popularity! “As politicians take up cudgels for the autumn season, the Prime Minister pledged yesterday: "It cannot, and should not, be business as usual." Never bothered him before, has he seen the light or the polls? “Mr Brown is right to say all parties have an interest in changing the way politics is run”. Is this anything to do with the collapse in the numbers of people not voting? “The British public has disengaged progressively from politics to the point where barely 60% bother to vote in a General Election and only one person in 88 belongs to a political party”. 1 in 88, that tells you how far trust has sunk. “Some see this as the inevitable consequence of a prosperous society more concerned with pleasure than bread-and-butter issues”. Are you kidding yourself on? “Others blame the shallowness of politics and absence of ideology”. Why not have the balls to say that the public perceive politicians as out of touch, elitist and plain greedy? “Under the heading of "the new politics", Mr Brown includes citizens' juries, standing commissions on carers, security in public places and children with communication problems, plus Speaker's conferences on various aspects of the electoral process”. It is amazing that Brown thinks that slapping the word “New” on something everyone will be gullible to believe it! “There is much talk of "triangulation". Would that be same as Adolf Hitler’s ein volk, ein reich, ein fuhrer? “Views on whether the term applies to Mr Brown's "new politics" depend on one's understanding of it”. Understanding of Brown or Brown’s team or your subjective view of what either of the possibilities might mean! “Originally used to refer to Bill Clinton's retreat to the political middle-ground in 1994, it is often compared with Tony Blair's "third way" and its accommodation of the market-place and not-for-profit sector”. Very much a Martin Luther King thing of, ‘I have a dream but you are not going to share it’! “Despite his deep involvement in the New Labour project, Mr Brown is still perceived by many as more partisan, a thinly-disguised old-style socialist”. By who, Brown is not a socialist! “In this context, yesterday's speech can be seen as an attempt to throw off the constraining corsetry of sterile party politics”. Try attempting to get re elected in England and you would be nearer the mark! “For many on the disgruntled left, triangulation is just a fancy word for betrayal”. Yes, I would agree, it’s a con to get re elected. “To them "new politics", including three commissions chaired by opposition MPs, is a naked attempt to court disaffected opposition politicians”. I would say there maybe some truth in that statement. “Mr Brown may be right about re-engaging the electorate”. As the editor of a unionist middle class paper I suspect you know that the only engagement that Brown is interested in is an X on the ballot paper on polling day. After that, I assume that Brown’s new found interest will die very quickly. “The danger is that if initiatives such as this one are simply perceived as smart political manoeuvring, voters will feel even more cynical about politics”. It is, have the guts to say it without skirting round it! “After the 7/7 bombings, many of the Muslims invited to join government discussion groups ended up disillusioned because their views were largely ignored”. What a surprise, ignored! “Citizens' juries and standing commissions risk the same fate”. Please get real, you know it’s a gimmick. “And while The Herald welcomes the plan to consider electoral reforms such as weekend voting, it is time the government recognised the corrosive effects of both flawed electronic voting systems in Scotland and a first-past-the-post voting system for Westminster that effectively disenfranchises millions of voters in safe seats”. I think the Herald ditched its social responsibility and social justice credentials long ago. “It would be wrong to dismiss out of hand the vision of a vibrant, active, engaged electorate helping the government carve out visionary policies for their communities and their country”. Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha! You funny man mister! “Citizens' juries, for example, could be a valuable innovation but only if they don't end up as glorified focus groups drawing on "the usual suspects". Like hand picked guangos that we all ready have for middle class people? We don’t want working class guangos because that would be wrong and undemocratic. “Many politicians talk about breaking the old mould of left-right politics. It is easier said than done. Remember David Cameron announcing the end of "Punch and Judy politics"? That is called the one party state idea, everyone is interested in being a camp follower if it gets them the money and career! “We will not hold our breath”. Finally, is this a verdict that the editor knows it’s a con and that Brown is ripping the complete and utter pish? I think it is! Yours sincerely George Laird The Campaign for Human Rights at Glasgow University

YAWN Another FAWNING. Obsequious , Sycohantic, Groveling, Crawling, Bootlicking, BROWN NOSING SUCK UP ARTICLE. I wonder when SAINT Gordon Brown will become the next POPE. In reality. Gordon Brown is like a DIRTY OLD NAPPY. FULL OF SH*T. Your Obedient Servant Addison De Witt

I must say I am disappointed in the quality of the language on this topic. I can hear this stuff down the pub anytime. (or in the nursery). It should be a debate, but instead it is a slanging match. Evidently most contributors don't know their subject, so they revert to insults.

The fact that all the papers are being told what to say by westminster is totally sickening how do we stop this. Its not as if we can go the papers is it to alert the people. Obviously westminste knows when you control the media you control the electorate. I actually dont care what the unionists say any more they have been brainwashed by the media. When you find documents disappearing when they relate to independence then it is really time to worry. As for jacobusmaximus there isnt any chance for debate look at the papers. Look at the language they are using. Can you think of one single paper that gives a balanced view of whats happening in scotland or scottish politics. They are not debating anything they are feeding us what westminster wants us to see. Its not just bias if it was dont you think they would be reading these posts and saying to themselves we need to provide a more balanced view if I was wrong. Thats not happening in fact its getting worse. We do not have a free press.

There will come a time when a brave man will publish a truthful daily tome, and the scales will be cast from the peoples' eyes and they shall behold the truth. There will be much anger amongst the populace and all of a southern-loving hue will be despised. But before this occurs, many lies will be told about those who would be free. Campaigns of misinformation will be launched in sheets of red to pervert the judgement of the people but fear not, the truth will out. Within the next two years a southron senator will have an epiphany and will be clad in sky-blue, causing much rage within the collective. But this will open the flood-gates. It will be discovered that the team, Celtic, was actually founded by a Grand Master of the O.L. These things will happen, I have seen them. It is my curse never to be believed.

Louise The whole Scottish media and press is like the LABOUR FAN CLUB. I have never bought a Scottish newspaper in 10 years. Why should I give my 50pence to Labour propaganda. Daily Labour Record Pravda is Toilet Paper. Alan Cochrane of the Daily Tory Telegraph. Alan Massie of the anti Scotland Scotsman. Magnus Linklater, a pompous windbag who lives in a mansion in the new town Edinburgh writes for The Times They all have a VISCERAL HATRED for Alex Salmond and Independence. They write poisen pen articles every day every word dripping in malice. The reason why these NORTH BRITONS do this is that there on the LONDON GRAVY TRAIN and There getting there 30 PIECES OF SILVER. You always gotta follow the MONEY TRAIL. Those who pay the PIPER CALLS THE TUNE. The best suggestion is to BOYCOTT the Scottish Press and watch there PROFITS FALL. The Americans who are much more pro active do this all the time and it gets results. Your Obedient Servant Addison De Witt

[bold]Precession[/bold] is the most mysterious aspect in engineering. We miss Pan Am yet its key role, I argue, was not to ship peeps from A to B but to employ gyro specialist Dan Fitzpatrick and guide him to his Theory of Everything TOE where relativity, the speed of light, and quantum dynamics meld by universal principles, not gauge confined mathematics. Boatbuilder [bold]MacLeod[/bold] then suggested a general theory of everything else when he stated that most ships were merely tubs with keels. Whereas he builds evolving clinker double-enders. Life is an ultra high frequency electric localised field you could perhaps write an algorithm for. Ergo the shape of mammals is not WHAT THEY ARE. I am a puma. Sharon removed all unhappy human accretions from 3 levels of scottish "education". For she is a medium and they do these things. Liz is a Cairngorm mountain beauty. I love her. We are smaller than big cats but considerably larger than the domestic. We are Mac Aoidh (Mackay) children or the Ur-Cat. Other sig. scottish beings are wolves, bears (clan Gunn), horses, cattle, seals, dolphins you name it. Wendy Alexander is a monkey from the party of monkeys (Tony Blair's New Labour). That'll be why the scottish working people [bold]voted them out[/bold] at the Holyrood Paliament Elections this year.

Sadly, I think he's just looking for some decent politicians to help him. I can't count many on labour's ranks. Like or dislike Thatcher, Tebbit, Michael Foot, Wedgie Benn, Kinnock, Brown AND Paddy Ashdown. You cannot deny that these people are/were real politicians steeped in an understanding of political history and purpose of politics, not the current batch of bland faceless lawyers or, dare I say, ugly estonians now more famous for their girlfriend who asked us all to touch their bum. I'd rather see their likes in power than the current batch. Why do you think Brown asked Paddy - because he needs someone to babysit for the cabinet!!! He's talking about consensus politics. Perhaps he shoudl say he wants competence politics. Oops. i forgot to include another name on the above list - Wee Eck. I respect him because he is also of the old school. Unlike his hangers-on.

Seems that gordon has taken a leaf from Alex Salmonds book. Cant seem to remember, but is there not a name for people who steal other peoples ideas, Martin Borman used to do that for Hitler.

[bold]"I believe that Britain needs a new type of politics which embraces everyone in the nation."[/bold] An astonishing statement from Gordon Brown on the same day the news was slipped out in the old traditional way under the door ,"in an exclusive" ,that a significant military upgrade is taking place in our nuclear weapons capability. If he is serious about "citizen juries" participating up and down the country lets start with ...... .What kind of democracy is it that somebody becomes Prime Minister without even a vote of confidence in the House of Commons? Lets have a national conversation on how it does not matter who you vote for they morph into Establishment Clones and thwart the will of the people. Let the " juries" discuss Trident nuclear weapons, how we got involved in Iraq and who voted for it ! George Orwell would recognise this age.