Opposition parties unite to agree remit for commission
What's new?
After months of trying to get their constitutional ducks in a row,
Conservative, Labour and LibDems at both Holyrood and Westminster have agreed on a remit for a commission that will review the devolved powers of the Scottish Parliament, and yesterday named its
independent chairman. Its one condition is that
independence is ruled out.
On what is this
commission to report?
It is to assess what could work better about Scottish devolution, accepting at the outset that spending £30bn each year without any role in raising that money is an imbalance that needs addressed. It will look at additional powers, or the transfer of Holyrood powers back to
Westminster, though Labour and LibDems disagree over this "two-way street". More tax powers would require a review of the Treasury's formula for distributing cash to Holyrood - though Downing Street refuses to concede that.
Why has it taken so
long to set up?
The three parties involved had to agree within themselves as much as with each other. Wendy
Alexander, Labour's leader at Holyrood, found resistance and doubts at Westminster, and the UK Government machine has been slow to support her. With the Scottish Labour conference this weekend and Alex Salmond
refreshing his
constitutional initiative, this was an important week to show progress.
What is the time frame?
The rest of the committee will be announced early next month, including party representatives and some from civic Scotland. They will seek public views and could hold citizens' juries to discuss key issues. An interim report is due later this year, but there is no timetable for the final report.
What happens to
its findings?
None of the parties is signing up to the findings, and there is plenty on which they can disagree. This process is not about fixing a political deal. The commission's report could be ignored, or parties could pick out the bits they like. It could be put to a
referendum, but is more likely to be put to the Scottish Parliament in an opposition motion. That would be a prompt to the Westminster government - whether Labour, or a
post-election Conservative or coalition administration - to enact its findings by amending the 1998 Scotland Act.
Why is the SNP not involved with the
commission?
The commission was designed to exclude the SNP by ruling out its core aim of independence. And last August, Alex Salmond started his National Conversation on Scotland's constitutional future. That is intended to persuade Scots that they want a referendum on
independence. The First Minister does not have enough MSP votes to get that through Holyrood, so he wants to build public pressure for it outside parliament and to draw his opponents into an
agreement that their devolution plan can be
put to a national vote on both options, which he wants in 2010.
Who has public
support now?
Support for independence, when set against
devolution, has varied between 23% and 35% over recent years, with no clear trend. The most recent poll, taken early this month, put it at 23%, with 45% for more devolved powers and 22% for the status quo.
Why can't commission and Conversation
combine?
Mainly because they have already disagreed on the outcome of this debate, and only the electorate can resolve that difference.
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Posted by: John Leven, Leven Fife on 12:10pm Wed 26 Mar 08
Yes Douglas
Only the electorate can resolve that difference.
And we all know the three Westminster controlled parties are ordered, I nearly said directed there, to ignore the electorate at all costs.
They are terrified of a referendum, even though the oft repeated mantra is only 23% support for independence, are they frightened they would win. A first, politicians refuse to consult the electorate because they would win.
What about the 70% plus who say they want a referendum?
Yes Douglas
Only the electorate can resolve that difference.
And we all know the three Westminster controlled parties are ordered, I nearly said directed there, to ignore the electorate at all costs.
They are terrified of a referendum, even though the oft repeated mantra is only 23% support for independence, are they frightened they would win. A first, politicians refuse to consult the electorate because they would win.
What about the 70% plus who say they want a referendum?
Posted by: redc;liffe62, brisbane on hols on 1:58am Thu 27 Mar 08
liberals need to work out a strategy so they become relevant. this approach with brown and alexander and co. clearly is not it.
liberals need to work out a strategy so they become relevant. this approach with brown and alexander and co. clearly is not it.
Posted by: Disgusted Dorothy, Glasgow on 1:38pm Thu 27 Mar 08
The unlikely bedfellows of this commission/review/ta
lking shop will have difficulty agreeing on anything but "stop the SNP at all costs"
I am astonished at Annabel Goldie and the conservatives signing up to this. Obviously their orders come from London too!
Why is a doctor , brilliant though he may be, deemed suitable for the chair of an INDEPENDENT review? His unionist affiliation appears to be wll known.
An INDEPENDENT chair should be a Swede or Norwegian , I rather like them!
The unlikely bedfellows of this commission/review/ta
lking shop will have difficulty agreeing on anything but "stop the SNP at all costs"
I am astonished at Annabel Goldie and the conservatives signing up to this. Obviously their orders come from London too!
Why is a doctor , brilliant though he may be, deemed suitable for the chair of an INDEPENDENT review? His unionist affiliation appears to be wll known.
An INDEPENDENT chair should be a Swede or Norwegian , I rather like them!
Posted by: highlander45, Highlands on 3:23pm Fri 28 Mar 08
They still think we Scots are stupid!!
They still think we Scots are stupid!!
Posted by: britfree, camelon on 1:29am Sat 29 Mar 08
labour is hated in england . theyre doooomed i tell'ye , dooooomed.
labour is hated in england . theyre doooomed i tell'ye , dooooomed.
Posted by: Donald Anderson, glasgow on 5:44am Tue 1 Apr 08
What was that aboot Tartan Tories again?
What was that aboot Tartan Tories again?
Posted by: awh, Dumfries on 7:52am Mon 7 Apr 08
Scots have had referendums on the union every four or five years since universal suffrage was achieved in 1928 (or 1948) depending on your viewpoint. At every general election and Holyrood election since Scots have favoured unionist parties. Now what are the SNP offering that is better than what we currently have? They don't want us to be Scots somedays they want us to be Irish with a low tax low services state, other days they want us to be Norwegians, high tax similar level of services to what we currently have? Can't they make their minds up? If I want to change 300 years of success I want another guaranteed 300 years of success not 10-15 years of squandered oil money.
The Union allows Scotland to show how tolerant it is by being in a political association with a long term enemy- a good lesson for todays world, it also allows Scots and Scotland to punch above its weight economically, intellectually- and culturally.
Scots have had referendums on the union every four or five years since universal suffrage was achieved in 1928 (or 1948) depending on your viewpoint. At every general election and Holyrood election since Scots have favoured unionist parties. Now what are the SNP offering that is better than what we currently have? They don't want us to be Scots somedays they want us to be Irish with a low tax low services state, other days they want us to be Norwegians, high tax similar level of services to what we currently have? Can't they make their minds up? If I want to change 300 years of success I want another guaranteed 300 years of success not 10-15 years of squandered oil money.
The Union allows Scotland to show how tolerant it is by being in a political association with a long term enemy- a good lesson for todays world, it also allows Scots and Scotland to punch above its weight economically, intellectually- and culturally.
Posted by: Jock Politicaljunkie, Glasgow on 5:14am Tue 8 Apr 08
awh, Dumfries, regurgitates:
"The Union allows Scotland to show how tolerant it is by being in a political association with a long term enemy- a good lesson for todays world, it also allows Scots and Scotland to punch above its weight economically, intellectually- and culturally."
What utter, rank, p!sh.
We Scots have always been outward looking and tolerant. We have always had wider commercial links than England because (pre union) we didn´t have Colonial lands, we continue to look overseas for trade (in spite of London), and we strive for a larger immigrant intake than London will allow us! - Punch above out weight! - what? coz we´ve got a tenth share of nuclear WMD´s that NO-ONE in Scotland wants??
AND "10 - 15 years squandered oil money"?!? What planet are you on?? - The North Sea Oil Money has been getting squandered for the last 35 years by London. The oil is running out - but may just help us set ourselves up through Independence and onwards in self determination.
This whole "stronger together" myth is complete b0ll0cks, and has been disproved in my opinion, by the strength and success of the Czeck and Slovak Republics. They are [italic]both stronger[/italic] and more wealthy now - [bold]AFTER separation[/bold] - than they were as Czeckoslovakia before.
I believe that the same will be true of both Scotland and England AFTER we both deparate. Bad political decisions made to accomodate two disparate nations are damaging to both. Bring the Government of both closer to home!
Finally, we do not have a referendum on the union every four or five years. A vote is cast at a general election on a basket of policies. Fortunately the issue of Independence (or at least a referendum) is rising [bold]UP[/bold] the priority scale so rapidly that we will soon be granted one. (almost [bold]80%[/bold] want a referendum so it [italic]will[/italic] happen) - Would [italic]you[/italic] deny the people the right to chose in a referendum?? Are you a democrat??
awh, Dumfries, regurgitates:
"The Union allows Scotland to show how tolerant it is by being in a political association with a long term enemy- a good lesson for todays world, it also allows Scots and Scotland to punch above its weight economically, intellectually- and culturally."
What utter, rank, p!sh.
We Scots have always been outward looking and tolerant. We have always had wider commercial links than England because (pre union) we didn´t have Colonial lands, we continue to look overseas for trade (in spite of London), and we strive for a larger immigrant intake than London will allow us! - Punch above out weight! - what? coz we´ve got a tenth share of nuclear WMD´s that NO-ONE in Scotland wants??
AND "10 - 15 years squandered oil money"?!? What planet are you on?? - The North Sea Oil Money has been getting squandered for the last 35 years by London. The oil is running out - but may just help us set ourselves up through Independence and onwards in self determination.
This whole "stronger together" myth is complete b0ll0cks, and has been disproved in my opinion, by the strength and success of the Czeck and Slovak Republics. They are
both stronger and more wealthy now -
AFTER separation - than they were as Czeckoslovakia before.
I believe that the same will be true of both Scotland and England AFTER we both deparate. Bad political decisions made to accomodate two disparate nations are damaging to both. Bring the Government of both closer to home!
Finally, we do not have a referendum on the union every four or five years. A vote is cast at a general election on a basket of policies. Fortunately the issue of Independence (or at least a referendum) is rising
UP the priority scale so rapidly that we will soon be granted one. (almost
80% want a referendum so it
will happen) - Would
you deny the people the right to chose in a referendum?? Are you a democrat??
Posted by: rob4i, Scottish Borders on 2:18am Sat 12 Apr 08
The opposition Unionist parties OR (the Scottish parties who are NOT in power) are starting a Constitutional Commission..........
...........
.........ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
The opposition Unionist parties OR (the Scottish parties who are NOT in power) are starting a Constitutional Commission..........
...........
.........ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Posted by: tartan army 2222, Edinburgh on 3:44pm Sat 12 Apr 08
awh dumfries
Possibly the most ridiculous post I have read on these forums - are you AM2 in disguise?
I was going to launch into a speel to disprove virtually every sentence you wrote, but Jock Politicaljunkie has already done a sterling job.
awh dumfries
Possibly the most ridiculous post I have read on these forums - are you AM2 in disguise?
I was going to launch into a speel to disprove virtually every sentence you wrote, but Jock Politicaljunkie has already done a sterling job.
Posted by: John Edgar, Cupar on 8:29pm Sat 12 Apr 08
What we have is the last gasp of the westminsterites at Holyrood! Extension of powers to the Scottish Parliament will only help thre SNP Government. I ts achievements to date have been impressive within the current restrictive powers from Westminster. Full independence would mean that London/Westminster is out of the picture for ever! Think about it, Westminsterites! The devolution bill was aimed at stopping the Nats! They bare vnow in power and the Labour Party in Scotland is out of power ! Great ! How the 3 opposition parties at Holyrood are birling in their irrelevance!
What we have is the last gasp of the westminsterites at Holyrood! Extension of powers to the Scottish Parliament will only help thre SNP Government. I ts achievements to date have been impressive within the current restrictive powers from Westminster. Full independence would mean that London/Westminster is out of the picture for ever! Think about it, Westminsterites! The devolution bill was aimed at stopping the Nats! They bare vnow in power and the Labour Party in Scotland is out of power ! Great ! How the 3 opposition parties at Holyrood are birling in their irrelevance!
Posted by: wxalexander, canada on 4:32am Tue 15 Apr 08
Be careful ladies and gentlemen. The commission has been set up to show that the three parties concerned have the interests of the Scottish citizens at heart and can win some minor concessions from Westminster. Of course, Westminster has already decided what will be given away and is promoting this game to coincide with say the next Scottish election to slow down the Nationalists. Problem is that Bendy and Gordon may still be there and this alone should defeat the game. On the other hand, both may be gone.
Be careful ladies and gentlemen. The commission has been set up to show that the three parties concerned have the interests of the Scottish citizens at heart and can win some minor concessions from Westminster. Of course, Westminster has already decided what will be given away and is promoting this game to coincide with say the next Scottish election to slow down the Nationalists. Problem is that Bendy and Gordon may still be there and this alone should defeat the game. On the other hand, both may be gone.
Posted by: pehman, sussex on 9:22am Sat 3 May 08
All night long through to the wee early hours of friday morning, lab mp's trooped on to the TV screens saying they were hearing what the voters were saying and that lab were listening. and the first proof that lab is listening we get ;-
What's new?
After months of trying to get their constitutional ducks in a row, Conservative, Labour and LibDems at both Holyrood and Westminster have agreed on a remit for a commission that will review the devolved powers of the Scottish Parliament, and yesterday named its independent chairman. Its one condition is that independence is ruled out.
It should be clear to all by now that what labour does not like will not be listened to
To all posters who are up to date with labour speak (lies given as fact) check out Mathew Parris in today's times
All night long through to the wee early hours of friday morning, lab mp's trooped on to the TV screens saying they were hearing what the voters were saying and that lab were listening. and the first proof that lab is listening we get ;-
What's new?
After months of trying to get their constitutional ducks in a row, Conservative, Labour and LibDems at both Holyrood and Westminster have agreed on a remit for a commission that will review the devolved powers of the Scottish Parliament, and yesterday named its independent chairman. Its one condition is that independence is ruled out.
It should be clear to all by now that what labour does not like will not be listened to
To all posters who are up to date with labour speak (lies given as fact) check out Mathew Parris in today's times
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