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   Web Issue 3275 October 11 2008   
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'Work for incapacity benefit' scheme is leaked
TORCUIL CRICHTON, Chief UK political correspondentJuly 19 2008

Radical plans to make the long-term unemployed "work for dole" and force those on disability benefits back to the jobs market have been unveiled on the eve of the crucial Glasgow East by-election.

The proposals, leaked to the media ahead of their launch by the government on Monday, will have a direct effect on at least 11,000 Incapacity Benefit claimants in the Glasgow East seat which also has one of the highest unemployment levels of any Scottish constituency.

The plans include private firms being paid a bounty for each person who is on Job Seekers Allowance for more than a year whom they get back into work. After two years of unemployment, claimants will move to US-style workfare schemes and be expected to turn up every day to sign on for work programmes in exchange for benefits.

The biggest change will come for the 2.6 million people in Britain on Incapacity Benefit who are judged to be unable to work on health or disability grounds.

The scheme, which costs the government £12bn a year in benefits, will be replaced by a new Employment Support Allowance by 2013. Claimants will be expected to undergo medical assessment for their ability to work and will be given personalised support to enable them to enter the jobs market.

Those on benefits who are drug addicts will have to attend treatment courses in exchange for receiving benefits.

The tough proposals from Work and Pensions Secretary James Purnell are an attempt to tackle the scourge of long-term unemployment and poverty but it is unclear how they will play out in Glasgow East.

"It was a brave move to launch a radical reform of the welfare state three days before a key by-election in Glasgow in an area of high welfare dependence," said shadow work and pensions secretary Chris Grayling.

He welcomed the proposals as a copy of Conservative policies and pledged the opposition would back the bill. The only Tory criticism was that the green paper talked of five pilot schemes and consultation on the new welfare system.

LibDem work and pensions spokeswoman Jenny Willott said the green paper ignored vulnerable people and the potential pitfalls of trapping people in poverty. "Half of the adults living in poverty in the UK are in work, largely thanks to the poverty trap Labour has created with the prevalence of means-tested benefits," she said.

Stewart Hosie of the SNP said the proposals were a "half-baked, shambolic and uncosted" effort that would rebound on Labour in the last week of the Glasgow by-election.

From the left, TUC General Secretary Brendan Barber said there are already sufficient sanctions to deal with benefit claimants who cheat the system.

"All the evidence shows the vast majority of the jobless want to work," he said. "With the economy slowing down, and many expecting unemployment to rise, now is not the time to start blaming the victim."


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Posted by: doonhamer on 11:58pm Fri 18 Jul 08
John Mason was right. There is no difference between Thatcher's Tories and Broon's Labour. We now know who Maggie Curran speaks up for, Maggie Thatcher.
Posted by: Vivas, Embra on 12:13am Sat 19 Jul 08
It's all in hand. Magaret Curran will bring Alistair Darling to Glasgow East after the byelection so he can see the problems for himself.

Move along Glasgow East voters .. nothing to see here ... move along now....
Posted by: Alex Porter, Madrid on 12:18am Sat 19 Jul 08
It's time to flood Glasgow East with the Broon and Thatcher hand in hand pamphlets! Labour have failed and will continue to.
Posted by: Joe Bloggs, Bonkle on 12:20am Sat 19 Jul 08
How many times can the Labour Party shoot itself in the foot in a single by-election campaign?

I don't know. It isn't over yet.
Posted by: Carlo, Inverclyde on 12:23am Sat 19 Jul 08
I wonder if the Daily Retard will be issued with a "D" notice to prevent them from publishing this before the election. It may not be "against the national interest", but it's certainly against the interest of Dr. Broon's New Tory party.
Posted by: Brian D Finch, Brigadoon on 12:24am Sat 19 Jul 08
Did they not say Wendy was the brightest of them all?
Now that Wendy has gone, are they not proving it?
Posted by: kotb, glasgow on 12:28am Sat 19 Jul 08
Here's a thought: rather than making ill people work - and hasn't this by-election been caused by ill-health - make any foreigner entering Britain to live work or kick them out.

And by work I don't mean selling the Big Issue when you already have a flat in Govanhill. This would be a policy which would immediately remove thousands from Glasgow who contribute nothing to the local econemy and instead only drain resources from it.

Or maybe that's too sensible for Brown. He doesn't appear to want to do anything that the public would wholeheartedly support.
Posted by: tris, scotland on 12:28am Sat 19 Jul 08
No difference at all between Maggie Brown and Gordon Thatcher.

I've worked for years in the business of getting people back into work, after long-term unemployment, and the whole thing's a lot more complicated than these morons seem to think.

For a start, I wonder if Mr Purnell would like to offer employment to some of the people who have criminal records (sometimes for pretty scary crimes), drug addiction records, history of mental illness.... How about the ones who are HIV+ ? How does he intend to persuade employers that they should give people a chance?

Most people would like a job; not many particularly like living on the dole, (some do I know, before someone calls me a whinging lefty tw@t)), but there are two sides to employing people, and one of them is the employer! They have to be willing to employ, and pay the person. And after years of neglect, some people don't have a lot to offer in return, and don't have anything to prove that what they do have to offer will be worth the money!

I don't know how many times I've sat with a client who is desperate to get treatment for addiction, but who has been told there is a waiting list. How are they going to deal with the lack of treatment centres and qualified staff? How will they afford it? They are broke.

And giving private firms bonuses to get people into work (I've seen this) results in the worng people being put in the wrong jobs, just so that a target can be reached, and a bonus earned. This is NOT how to tackle this problem. Not for the unemployed, or the employers or for us... the customer.

Doubtless this will be, like most of the rest of the c**p that this lot come out with ill-thought out, shambolic and half-arsed. And like most of the rest of their recent legislation, it won't work.

But they will get it though because it's sufficiently foul and unfeeling and stupid that the Original Nasty Party will vote with it all the way. Seriously, I don't know why they don't just join forces.. the Conlabratives . Clearly the Liberals and the SNP don't have a lot of time for it

Please, please let us have an independent Scotland before all this kicks it! It's devisive and will end in tears.


Posted by: Vivas, Embra on 12:28am Sat 19 Jul 08
Alex Porter wrote:
It's time to flood Glasgow East with the Broon and Thatcher hand in hand pamphlets! Labour have failed and will continue to.
Without a doubt Alex, without a doubt.

Perhaps the leaflets could speculate whether Maggie gave Brown this idea the last time he had her at No.10 for tea and scones. And in return whether Brown told her that he would make sure that a state funeral of Churchillian proportions would be her final send off.

Millions sanctioned and spent on a state funeral for Thatcher that would be better spent in east-end regeneration ? Over to you Ms. Curran to explain this one to us.
Posted by: Dave, Glasgow on 12:30am Sat 19 Jul 08
Threating to take 11,000 off incapacity benefits in the East End is more likely to lose Labuur votes.
Posted by: Rev. S. Campbell, Bath on 12:33am Sat 19 Jul 08
Graham, love, you look even more of a cretin than normal trotting out the "Tartan Tories" line when LABOUR are bringing in a policy of persecuting the poor and disadvantaged that Norman Tebbit would have been too ashamed to put forward. You ludicrous twunt.
Posted by: Alex Porter, TROLL BRIDGE CLOSED on 12:37am Sat 19 Jul 08
Rev. S. Campbell,
There's a new mood sweeping the forums. We have been ignoring trolls and there has been a very pleasant outcome. Please join us!

IGNORE THE TROLLS
Posted by: Graham, Glasgow on 12:37am Sat 19 Jul 08
Dave,12:30am. If they get half the wage of a Tartan Tory MSP less expences then it should not be a problem for the Eastenders. More of a vote winner .
Posted by: Graham, Glasgow on 12:45am Sat 19 Jul 08
Rev Bath. 12:33am. Pull the plug before you drown.
Posted by: tris, scotland on 12:47am Sat 19 Jul 08
Alex Porter wrote:
Rev. S. Campbell, There's a new mood sweeping the forums. We have been ignoring trolls and there has been a very pleasant outcome. Please join us! IGNORE THE TROLLS

What a good idea Alex....

Can I join too?
Posted by: Vivas, Embra on 12:47am Sat 19 Jul 08
Christ, even Thatcher had the cojones to visit Liverpool in 1981. Toom Tabbard however doesn't have the balls to visit the Glasgow East "heartland" in 2008.

And now we know why.
Posted by: Graham, Glasgow on 12:50am Sat 19 Jul 08
tris,12:28am. Hello tris you forgot to add the Tartan Tories to the end of your first sentence.
Posted by: Alex Porter, TROLL FREE SCOTLAND on 12:56am Sat 19 Jul 08
Tris,
What a good idea Alex....

Can I join too?


Membership is open. You know it makes sense:O)
Posted by: Rev. S. Campbell, Bath on 12:57am Sat 19 Jul 08
Alex Porter wrote:
Rev. S. Campbell,
There's a new mood sweeping the forums. We have been ignoring trolls and there has been a very pleasant outcome. Please join us!

IGNORE THE TROLLS
Works for me.

Meanwhile, can any Labour apologists answer me a question about this despicable, evil policy?

If the unemployed are to be forced into full-time slave labour for their unsurvivable pittance of benefits, exactly when are they supposed to go and look for proper jobs?
Posted by: council worker, edinburgh on 1:05am Sat 19 Jul 08
come off it. that is old news!
labour are getting their excuses ready for defeat in the by-election.
they are worried shitless.
ladbrokes are predicting snp victory--take note!
Posted by: jonny bond, glasgow on 1:06am Sat 19 Jul 08
If I was a politician that wanted to kick labour out of power I would promise to move the capital to glasgow where it belongs not an ancient georgian city that has all the industry of the royal bank being headquarterd there and thats it. We all are suspicious about the banking industry arent we we trust them about as far as we trust mps did royal bank make the final decision to build a 1 billion pound bird droppings target no terrorist worth his salt would even consider that building a target as its desturction would be seen as beneficial in many cities in scotland.
Posted by: aapeacock, Bo'ness Harbour on 1:09am Sat 19 Jul 08

Maybe the Roman Catholic Church could explain why a nice Catholic Boy who they helped into power as a Councillor
Little education, no real work experience and Liebor qualifications

Could now be in a position to get thousands of pounds from screwing his relatives .. his friends .. his voters

By giving a vast fortune to a Dutch Multi National with a foul reputation in business

How does he propose to live in Bo'ness when this is made public ?

Already threats of violence have been made as the people are made aware they were taken for CLOWNS

I GIVE YOU LIEBOR COONCILOR MAHONEY
Posted by: tris, scotland on 1:10am Sat 19 Jul 08
Rev. S. Campbell wrote:
Alex Porter wrote: Rev. S. Campbell, There's a new mood sweeping the forums. We have been ignoring trolls and there has been a very pleasant outcome. Please join us! IGNORE THE TROLLS
Works for me. Meanwhile, can any Labour apologists answer me a question about this despicable, evil policy? If the unemployed are to be forced into full-time slave labour for their unsurvivable pittance of benefits, exactly when are they supposed to go and look for proper jobs?

I know it makes sense Alex, you're right! :0)
It's half-arsed your reverence. (begging your pardon for the language).

There are ways of helping people back to work, and what I've heard and read of this scheme doesn't include any of them.

It takes time patience, a lot of understanding and a good deal of money to overturn years of shoving people onto the scrap heap, which Mrs Thatcher did so readily.

You have to start with the young. Make sure they are trained and have job opportunities. Like what is hopefully going to happen in Glasgow in the build up to the Games.

If only we weren't lumbered with this United Kindom rubbish, we could pull this off much more easily.

Posted by: jonny bond, glasgow on 1:13am Sat 19 Jul 08
This story sounds horrible nobody in scotland is disabled cause the goverment released an advert saying crippled soldiers can be retrained as crippled janitors. If the goverment hadn't been handing out this disability to everyone who admitted drinking ever then we wouldnt be in this horrendous mess. It was no way to reduce unemployment figures so tony and his cronys looked good.
Posted by: Edward, Edinburgh on 1:14am Sat 19 Jul 08
'The plans include private firms being paid a bounty for each person who is on Job Seekers Allowance'
Can just picture it, Bounty Hunters on the streets of Glasgow East!
Posted by: jonny bond, glasgow on 1:14am Sat 19 Jul 08
90% of those on this benefit dont deserve it but what about the X taxpayers that do.
Posted by: jonny bond, glasgow on 1:17am Sat 19 Jul 08
Wanted shettleston man scary looking creature looks like he will drop dead of liver poisoning at 58 wanted urgently to fulfil a goverment quota. like it eddie from embra and there is not a lot to like there.
Posted by: Graham, Glasgow on 1:27am Sat 19 Jul 08
Edward, 1:14am. You are out of touch with reality. We Eastenders are bounty hunters!
Posted by: jonny bond, glasgow on 1:29am Sat 19 Jul 08
Aye but how many of you pay tax and how many bounty hunters are on disabillity while they work.
Posted by: buccleuch, Glasgow on 1:39am Sat 19 Jul 08
Well I for one would be very happy for all those ' remembering to limp convincingly with the stick' bunch on maryhill road I see every day on the way to work , getting a major boot up the arse, and kicked off incapacity and made to train or work. These are often young men and woman who have decided to go for a lifetime of being on benefits and its just not on anymore.
I actually think this would be a vote winner as the 35 % of people who can be bothered to vote will more than likely be the ones in this constitunecy who are working and well aware of the scamming and are sick to the back teeth of it.
This does not apply to the genuine cases which these propsals are designed to find out.
Posted by: Big Boy Did It, And Ran Away on 1:39am Sat 19 Jul 08
Or how about turfing people out of their cooncil hoose if they don't get into work...

So, homeless AND, jobless. Should find it so much easier to get work from NFA.

Ooops, sorry, I think the Labour cabinet already tabled that proposal. Caroline Flint was it?
Posted by: Iainbroch, Moray on 1:41am Sat 19 Jul 08
It is not about saving tax payers mony - it is about lining the pockets of Libaaahs millionaire business palls - you know Maggie Thatcher has the same palls!
Posted by: jonny bond, glasgow on 1:50am Sat 19 Jul 08
No they are not buclech that is the problem anything designed by government is designed by numptys looking to make a quick buck for supporters who they will need when they are booted out by voters.
Posted by: Alex Porter, TROLL HUNTER on 1:52am Sat 19 Jul 08
In the never-ending begging for home county acceptance, we are going to get more of this Thatcherite madness.

It is time to highlight Labour's addiction to Thatcherism. The leaflets of Broon and Thatcher together should be distributed immediately in Glasgow East.
Posted by: Los Angeles, Edinburgh on 1:54am Sat 19 Jul 08
Hurricane Katrine
The proposals, leaked to the media ahead of their launch by the government on Monday, will have a direct effect on at least 11,000 Incapacity Benefit claimants in the Glasgow East seat which also has one of the highest unemployment levels of any Scottish constituency.
They might as well announce flattening Glasgow East to the ground, placie all its inhabitants in the football stadium then forceably scatter them outside the city, rebuilding the area to a higher standard offering properties only to the middle or wealthy classes: the New Orleans of Scotland.

Another own goal.

How will Ms Curran play this one?
Posted by: vitesse, skye on 2:19am Sat 19 Jul 08
ladbrokes are predicting snp victory--take note!

if 1/2 for labour and 13/8 snp means snp are favs then i would love to meet your bookie. still hope nats win. then brown can have time to support england at the olympics.....sorry i mean gb without scots welsh and irish athletes
Posted by: Graham, Glasgow on 2:20am Sat 19 Jul 08
LA,1:54am. You do live in your own wee fantasy world LA. Do you have any idea where Glasgow East is. That is Glasgow East Scotland UK.
Posted by: Yok Finney, Ross-shire on 4:45am Sat 19 Jul 08
Can just picture it, Bounty Hunters on the streets of Glasgow East!

"jobs market" is the new official speak in place of useful work. There will be "jobs for the boys" in this new labour non-activity. The likes of Crawford will get involved as having shown high incompetence in running Scottish Enterprise he now has a high paid job regenerating East Glasgow. I don't see this meddling and interfering being any good for either the employer or the unemployed.

Temporary work is often offered to the "unemployed". This involves reams of paperwork at the start of the job and more again when you're paid off to keep any home and household together. As being in work is deemed to be exceptionally good for us, perhaps 3 days a week would a start back into the "jobs market" without loosing benefits. The inland revenue keeps track of this anyway and would tax it beyond a threshold.

A better idea would be offering serious skills training say on 6 - 8 week courses. Leaving it to the individual to decide what trade he wants to learn because he sees a demand for it.

As an employer, if some one arrived at the yard and said they were a skilled aluminium welder, I might employ them there and then. "It's just what I'm looking for." We'd agree a price for the job and I'd pay him in cash from my own pocket that very day. I don't think I'd be contacting "UK Bounty Hunters plc" especially if it was Friday.
Posted by: willie mac, Arden on 5:49am Sat 19 Jul 08
More big bucks contracts from the Department of Work and Pensions to private sector pals.

Indeed, some of thes companies, such as Atos, are actually large international IT players who share data globally.

A benefits system administered by caring American multinational businesses is what we want. Same too for the NHS as Gordon Brown modernises that as well.

sinister, of course not. Private big business has your interests at your heart.
Posted by: Meep, Shawlands on 7:12am Sat 19 Jul 08
Labours decision to target people on incapacity benfit is not based upon financial considerations. Its based upon a hatred of people in a state of weakness. If the government wanted to save money then why are they allowing the Bank of England to give out close to £ 1 billion IOU to banks who have frittered away their own money and expect the state to bail them out. The british banks are the biggest waster of state benefits. Start with them if you want to save money.
Posted by: Neil, Aberdeenshire on 7:54am Sat 19 Jul 08
Tris 12:28am
But they will get it though because it's sufficiently foul and unfeeling and stupid that the Original Nasty Party will vote with it all the way. Seriously, I don't know why they don't just join forces.. the Conlabratives .


May I suggest CoLaborators ?
Posted by: jim, Glasgow on 7:59am Sat 19 Jul 08
Now labour really has alienated itself in Glasgow East.SNP WILL win.
Posted by: Eugene, germany on 8:10am Sat 19 Jul 08
The notion of state benefits in a capitalist society is mostly a nonsense. Certainly some are worthy of generous state support, but only those clearly unable to work or support themselves. Ofcourse incapacity benefit enabled government proclamations of how low unemployment was and for this reason I suspect there was no incentive for review. If its true that many currently on benefit were able to work and did so, presumedly there may have been less need for the influx of those from other countries that evidentally has caused such disquiet. But, though still a marvellous country, Britain has many more injustices than abuse of benefits. Mr Blair, unpopular war and a house in London worth millions spring to mind.
Posted by: John Clark, Glasgow on 8:11am Sat 19 Jul 08
Vote Labour and get your incapacity benefit taken from you. A no brainer for east end voters. Vote Labour and see the invalids treated like shoite.

Enough is enough eh? Time these people were voted out.

NOBODY with sense would vote Labour.

AND for each person who loses their benefit a private company gets a bounty. That is vomit inducing.

Posted by: Carnwarth on 8:14am Sat 19 Jul 08
30 years of Tory rule have moved Britain significantly to the right.
Posted by: ex labour voter, glasgow on 8:48am Sat 19 Jul 08
Graham wrote:
Dave,12:30am. If they get half the wage of a Tartan Tory MSP less expences then it should not be a problem for the Eastenders. More of a vote winner .
Like liar Curran the millionaire who has sucked from the public purse all her life.

Posted by: ex labour voter, glasgow on 8:51am Sat 19 Jul 08
Wit about the £500.000 scrounger Marshall . Will he be forced from his sick bed and told to find work.
Posted by: themunnster, Hamilton on 8:56am Sat 19 Jul 08
If anyone has any remaining doubts as to the vapidity and sheer, utter uselessness of this administration, read Matthew Parris's column in today's Times. Surely by now, the voters of Glasgow East will know that this government is not waving, it's drowning.
Posted by: John F on 8:56am Sat 19 Jul 08
Tebbit endorses Brown
Tebbit hits out at Tories and names Brown as Thatcher's natural heir.
Lord Tebbit declared ...........that it was only natural that Mr Brown should make himself the “heir to Thatcher”.The Times - September 26, 2007
Posted by: ex labour voter, glasgow on 9:05am Sat 19 Jul 08
Labour will pay dearly for this Nazi policy of forced labour on the sick and incapacitated.
They have finaly gone mad, controll freak Broon and his labour pigs
have lost the plot.
Posted by: byebyelabour, edinburgh on 9:15am Sat 19 Jul 08
lol broon would rather go to baghdad than glasgow?? QUALITY!!
Posted by: Donald Anderson, glasgow on 9:18am Sat 19 Jul 08
Union Jack Tories in Little Red Monkey rosettes brave the Eastern Front protected by the Unionist media in Scotland.
Posted by: subrosa on 9:23am Sat 19 Jul 08
Posted by: willie mac, Arden on 5:49am today
More big bucks contracts from the Department of Work and Pensions to private sector pals.

Indeed, some of thes companies, such as Atos, are actually large international IT players who share data globally.

A benefits system administered by caring American multinational businesses is what we want. Same too for the NHS as Gordon Brown modernises that as well.

sinister, of course not. Private big business has your interests at your heart.


Well said. The introduction of private firms is another gravy train with no guaranteed results. No qualification standards for 'clients' is stated and no time limit.

This is going backwards. Private companies are doing this for profit. They will not give 'personal support'. It will be a sake of bums on seats similar to some university courses now.
Posted by: angiebobs, possilpark on 9:44am Sat 19 Jul 08
*STOPPRESS* ** greedy tax dodgers who make millions from companies and businesses in UK are to be forced to turn up to inland revenue everyday and explain why they think its ok to take the massive profits but contribute nothing to society in the way of taxes. Employing smart accountants to avoid contributions will no longer be an option for the super rich who are clogging up our car show rooms and restaurants.
It is believed that this measure could generate enough money to fund health, education and welfare for the the sick,eldlerly and disabled. **

Now THIS would be a sensible policy.
SHAME on New labour for attacking the weak AGAIN!
Posted by: Curley Bill, the southwest on 9:55am Sat 19 Jul 08
I posted this before:
Doesn't it make you proud that a Scottish Labour Prime Minister cosies up to his rich city mates while terrorising the poor and disabled?
Posted by: The Wise One, Glasgow on 10:10am Sat 19 Jul 08
The plans include private firms being paid a bounty for each person who is on Job Seekers Allowance for more than a year whom they get back into work.

Is there not firms already doing this sort of thing, such as Working Links?
Posted by: joe90, Wishaw on 10:13am Sat 19 Jul 08
Lots of great comments!

It's great to see that many people actually care about others who can't help themselves, against a government hellbent on demonising defenceless people, using them as scapegoats.

Attacking the weakest and most vulnerable people in out community, the sick and the infirm - how low can New Labour go!?

By the way the New Labour Party aren't trying to be like or copy the British Tory Party. They are much more extremist than that - they are trying to copy the far-right fascist Republican-Democrati
c Parties the US.

Even Scottish New Labour's former glorious leader, Wendy Alexander, copied George Bush in her vacuous bragging and challanging people to "Bring it on ! " when asked about a referendum on Scottish sovereignty - in the same way George Bush, bravely ensconced in Washington DC, stood up and uttered the defiant challenge of "Bring 'em on ! " when asked a question about the Iraqi resietnce Movement.

all the best!

ps

I like the CoLabouritive Party jibe.

A favourite of mine is Union Jocks
Posted by: The Wise One, Glasgow on 10:15am Sat 19 Jul 08
I wonder if Mags Curran will announce that she will oppose this scheme and defend the rights of the Glasgow East constituents to claim benefit.
Posted by: George Dutton, Gateshead on 10:24am Sat 19 Jul 08
Read up on it all...copy and paste into address bar if need be...

http://www.swansheff
ield.org.uk/
Posted by: George Dutton, Gateshead on 10:26am Sat 19 Jul 08
This link may be better...

http://tinyurl.com/3
222cl
Posted by: kotb, glasgow on 10:37am Sat 19 Jul 08
Wonder where Brown stands on his former hero, the Red Cydesider James Maxton nowadays?

LOL
Posted by: Tony Lewis, Ayrshire on 10:45am Sat 19 Jul 08