Trump lawyer: benefits outweigh the costs
Donald Trump's lawyer yesterday admitted the tycoon's planned £1bn golf resort would have "significant adverse effects" on the
environment.
Colin Boyd, QC, said Mr Trump and his colleagues had never sought to "hide or massage" the impact the development, at Menie in Aberdeenshire, would have on the area's fragile dune system.
However, the lawyer said any damage would be far outweighed by the enormous economic benefits of the scheme, which includes a "world's finest golf course", a five-star hotel and 1450 homes. The scheme, he said, offered a "once-in-a-lifetime opportunity" for Aberdeenshire.
Mr Boyd was speaking on the last day of a month-long public inquiry on Mr Trump's plans to transform Menie Estate, north of Aberdeen, into a resort that could host international tournaments such as the British Open.
The plans were last year rejected by a committee of Aberdeenshire Council, despite the authority's overall political support for a development dubbed "Trumpton" by local opponents.
Mr Trump wants to build part of one of two golf courses on dunes officially declared a site of special scientific interest, or SSSI. Mr Boyd championed an "audacious
proposal" which had been given the support of the business community, Aberdeenshire Council and "thousands of ordinary people".
Mr Boyd told the inquiry at the Aberdeen Exhibition and Conference Centre that Mr Trump was not prepared to compromise. He said: "If the applicants are to realise the vision of an exceptional world-class course underpinning £1bn of investment, then the championship course needs to use the SSSI."
He arg ued that where there had been conflict during the inquiry over environmental evidence, the submissions of Mr Trump's experts should be preferred. "I submit that the applicants have employed the best environmental
scientists and that they have not sought to hide or massage the impacts of the development," he said.
Mr Boyd said the applicant accepted the impact on
natural habitats of the
development and that plans to preserve them by "translocating" them to another area would be a "challenge".
However, he added: "In my experience of my client, the word cannot' does not appear in his dictionary and for an organisation used to constructing 90-storey tower blocks, translocation on this scale is not logistically daunting."
Mr Boyd was critical of the four councillors who gave
evidence at the inquiry in opposition to the plans. He singled out Martin Ford, the councillor whose casting vote led to the rejection of the application last year.
"Turning to the dissident councillors' group, Mr Ford attempted to wrap himself in the mantle of the planning authority and argue that great weight should be accorded to their views," said Mr Boyd.
He went on to highlight potential economic benefits, citing "conservative estimates" of 1200 jobs created in Scotland in the operation of the development. In conclusion, Mr Boyd said: "In my submission this truly is a once-in-a-lifetime opportunity. It would be a tragedy for Scotland if we let it pass by."
Closing the inquiry, reporter Karen Heywood thanked parties for contributing to a debate about which "everyone feels very strongly".
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Posted by: Los Angeles, Edinburgh on 12:15am Sat 5 Jul 08
[quote]Donald Trump's lawyer yesterday admitted the tycoon's planned £1bn golf resort would have "significant adverse effects" on the environment.[/quote] Being a rough, tough, nail and bolt spitting tycoon, Trump didn't get to where he is today by worrying about the environment. No, sir. His bank account always comes first. Doing the right thing means filling his pockets, and it ain't with sand!
Donald Trump's lawyer yesterday admitted the tycoon's planned £1bn golf resort would have "significant adverse effects" on the environment.
Being a rough, tough, nail and bolt spitting tycoon, Trump didn't get to where he is today by worrying about the environment. No, sir. His bank account always comes first. Doing the right thing means filling his pockets, and it ain't with sand!
Posted by: Samoyed, Costa del Menie on 12:57am Sat 5 Jul 08
I had the whole place for me and my doggies most of the evening with three exceptions, a friend of mine and his two labradors. Never had any of the regular walkers seen one of the people at the inquiry, nor are we many. The interest for the place is somehow very relative and theorethical, mostly sustained by people not directly involved.
We reckon that if the balls start flying around we'll have to move up or down the beach some, and that's something we already do anyway.
My point is the Scottish Government should not give much value to the actual practice of enjoying the SSSI as it's not really relevant.
I had the whole place for me and my doggies most of the evening with three exceptions, a friend of mine and his two labradors. Never had any of the regular walkers seen one of the people at the inquiry, nor are we many. The interest for the place is somehow very relative and theorethical, mostly sustained by people not directly involved.
We reckon that if the balls start flying around we'll have to move up or down the beach some, and that's something we already do anyway.
My point is the Scottish Government should not give much value to the actual practice of enjoying the SSSI as it's not really relevant.
Posted by: Los Angeles, Edinburgh on 1:06am Sat 5 Jul 08
Samoyed Annoyed[quote]We reckon that if the balls start flying around we'll have to move up or down the beach some, and that's something we already do anyway.[/quote] Don't quite follow your garbled syntax but it appears you are saying it's vast sand bank fit only for dog crap ... and Donald Trump.
Samoyed Annoyed
We reckon that if the balls start flying around we'll have to move up or down the beach some, and that's something we already do anyway.
Don't quite follow your garbled syntax but it appears you are saying it's vast sand bank fit only for dog crap ... and Donald Trump.
Posted by: Wilhelm on 1:06am Sat 5 Jul 08
Los Angeles turns into Gabby Hayes.
''Being a rough, tough, nail and bolt spitting tycoon. He's a rooting and a tooting capitalist, darn it . Yee haw. ''
Now Los Angeles son . What medication are you on ? I think it would be best for all concerned if your psychiatrist upped the dosage. And remember keep away from sharp objects.
Los Angeles turns into Gabby Hayes.
''Being a rough, tough, nail and bolt spitting tycoon. He's a rooting and a tooting capitalist, darn it . Yee haw. ''
Now Los Angeles son . What medication are you on ? I think it would be best for all concerned if your psychiatrist upped the dosage. And remember keep away from sharp objects.
Posted by: Los Angeles, Edinburgh on 1:11am Sat 5 Jul 08
Kaiser Wilhelm[quote]Now Los Angeles son . What medication are you on[/quote] Cockroach fritter.
Glad to see you wasting another post on someone you think beneath contempt, Wally Dug.
Kaiser Wilhelm
Now Los Angeles son . What medication are you on
Cockroach fritter.
Glad to see you wasting another post on someone you think beneath contempt, Wally Dug.
Posted by: Wilhelm on 1:24am Sat 5 Jul 08
Lost Angeles
If you hate America so much and slag it off. Why do you work there and take their money ?
Lost Angeles
If you hate America so much and slag it off. Why do you work there and take their money ?
Posted by: Los Angeles, Edinburgh on 1:35am Sat 5 Jul 08
Poor question, and I know you have asked it before on other forums and sites, but as ever, you are utterly misguided and misinformed in your rage. But then, what do you care?
Tell us about your love of Scotland and its people.
We are enraptured.
Poor question, and I know you have asked it before on other forums and sites, but as ever, you are utterly misguided and misinformed in your rage. But then, what do you care?
Tell us about your love of Scotland and its people.
We are enraptured.
Posted by: Wilhelm on 2:00am Sat 5 Jul 08
Lost Angeles
Poor answer. You have have obviously got a guilty conscience for taking the Yankee dollar and then slagging off the country. Thats why you wont answer the question. You are just a prositute selling your wares to the highest bidder.
Ps. If you answered the question, maybe I would stop asking it.
Lost Angeles
Poor answer. You have have obviously got a guilty conscience for taking the Yankee dollar and then slagging off the country. Thats why you wont answer the question. You are just a prositute selling your wares to the highest bidder.
Ps. If you answered the question, maybe I would stop asking it.
Posted by: Los Angeles, Edinburgh on 2:04am Sat 5 Jul 08
Wrong jibe. Wrong guy. And you're no patriot of Scotland.
Go and shout at the television. A computer is no substitute.
Wrong jibe. Wrong guy. And you're no patriot of Scotland.
Go and shout at the television. A computer is no substitute.
Posted by: Wilhelm on 2:21am Sat 5 Jul 08
Loser Angeles
I will allow you to evade the question !
Loser Angeles
I will allow you to evade the question !
Posted by: Politically Incorrect Woman, Falkirk on 2:21am Sat 5 Jul 08
The weather is changing,floods are increasing,the health of the people is declining,cancers are growing,animals and plants are being exterminated and mankind faces problems unknown by civilisations before.Since science will solve these problems,not golf,you would think we would cherish our sites of special,scientific interest,which are areas used by our scientists for investigation.No! We give it away for a handful of dollars!If these people in Scotland,s oil capital are in such dire financial straights,why have we never seen them down in Edinburgh petitioning Parliament,with their banners and posters and creating a hullabaloo.I,m forever in demos,but I,ve never seen them.They should be told loud and clear,do what the rest of us with guts do--fight,shout,peti
tion,rally,hold meetings,collect signatures!That,s how you get jobs and that,s how you get homes.That,s a little bit more dignified then getting down on your knees before an American,the very people that covet the earth and destroy it,to get what they want.And if they come for your sand dune to-day,what will they come for to-morrow?
The weather is changing,floods are increasing,the health of the people is declining,cancers are growing,animals and plants are being exterminated and mankind faces problems unknown by civilisations before.Since science will solve these problems,not golf,you would think we would cherish our sites of special,scientific interest,which are areas used by our scientists for investigation.No! We give it away for a handful of dollars!If these people in Scotland,s oil capital are in such dire financial straights,why have we never seen them down in Edinburgh petitioning Parliament,with their banners and posters and creating a hullabaloo.I,m forever in demos,but I,ve never seen them.They should be told loud and clear,do what the rest of us with guts do--fight,shout,peti
tion,rally,hold meetings,collect signatures!That,s how you get jobs and that,s how you get homes.That,s a little bit more dignified then getting down on your knees before an American,the very people that covet the earth and destroy it,to get what they want.And if they come for your sand dune to-day,what will they come for to-morrow?
Posted by: Los Angeles, Edinburgh on 2:28am Sat 5 Jul 08
kaiser Wilhelm[quote]I will allow you to evade the question ![/quote] The only question is the one you evade: the topic.
kaiser Wilhelm
I will allow you to evade the question !
The only question is the one you evade: the topic.
Posted by: Murray, British Columbia Canada on 3:20am Sat 5 Jul 08
I thought the process of evaluation had the option of asking for alterations to plans. Instead it seems Trump has an arrogant 'take it or leave it' attitude, nay 'Take what I plan or I leave in a huff'. He isn't used to opposition, it seems. Giving into him cannot be the best idea.
I thought the process of evaluation had the option of asking for alterations to plans. Instead it seems Trump has an arrogant 'take it or leave it' attitude, nay 'Take what I plan or I leave in a huff'. He isn't used to opposition, it seems. Giving into him cannot be the best idea.
Posted by: Rock Lobster, North o the Tay on 5:36am Sat 5 Jul 08
Nobody in Scotland give's a monkeys about sand dunes.
Opposition to this development is just anti-Trump guff.
Nobody in Scotland give's a monkeys about sand dunes.
Opposition to this development is just anti-Trump guff.
Posted by: gavin48, Glasgow on 7:32am Sat 5 Jul 08
Lets be clear about a few things
1. the Local Council want this development
2. the local community want this development
3. the local Planning Department want this development
4. the only reason it has reached this enquiry is because the chairman of the planning committee voted for the status quo after the committee vote was hung.
I am inclined to respect the views of local people, after all they are the ones who know the area, they are the ones who will live with the effects of the development.
Lets be clear about a few things
1. the Local Council want this development
2. the local community want this development
3. the local Planning Department want this development
4. the only reason it has reached this enquiry is because the chairman of the planning committee voted for the status quo after the committee vote was hung.
I am inclined to respect the views of local people, after all they are the ones who know the area, they are the ones who will live with the effects of the development.
Posted by: Donald Anderson, glasgow on 7:38am Sat 5 Jul 08
Given the obstacles, opposition and disruption, Mr Trump would truly have to be genuinely wishing to invest in the New Scotland, filthy capitalist or no, when he could so easily have pulled out and invested elsewhere. What's the matter, were there nae Broon envelopes for the Broon Party?
Given the obstacles, opposition and disruption, Mr Trump would truly have to be genuinely wishing to invest in the New Scotland, filthy capitalist or no, when he could so easily have pulled out and invested elsewhere. What's the matter, were there nae Broon envelopes for the Broon Party?
Posted by: Yok Finney, Ross-shire on 7:39am Sat 5 Jul 08
[italic]The men o the North hae a' gane gyte.[/italic]
The men o the North hae a' gane gyte. Posted by: Donald Anderson, glasgow on 7:41am Sat 5 Jul 08
Whit aboot the burdz?
Posted by: Yok Finney, Ross-shire on 8:31am Sat 5 Jul 08
The bonnie burdies are backstage at [italic]blawin up the pipes[/italic] .
The bonnie burdies are backstage at
blawin up the pipes .
Posted by: Los Angeles, Edinburgh on 9:42am Sat 5 Jul 08
Anderson[quote]after the committee vote was hung.[/quote] And why was there a hung vote?
No one is suggesting there is not widespread support for a giant housing scheme, (even as house prices collapse) rather opposition to is is concetrated on a geographical area of it.
It is no different from a property developer suggesting he cut down a wood, or destroy a garden in order to build a second house. But you can be sure most developers will think their rights are being undermined if refused planning permisison.
Of course, all this could disappear overnight if Trump agreed to reduce or alter his much expanded from original plan.
Why the obduracy?
Anderson
after the committee vote was hung.
And why was there a hung vote?
No one is suggesting there is not widespread support for a giant housing scheme, (even as house prices collapse) rather opposition to is is concetrated on a geographical area of it.
It is no different from a property developer suggesting he cut down a wood, or destroy a garden in order to build a second house. But you can be sure most developers will think their rights are being undermined if refused planning permisison.
Of course, all this could disappear overnight if Trump agreed to reduce or alter his much expanded from original plan.
Why the obduracy?
Posted by: Anne, A'deenshire on 11:10am Sat 5 Jul 08
[quote]However, the lawyer said any damage would be far outweighed by the enormous economic benefits of the scheme, which includes a "world's finest golf course", a five-star hotel and 1450 homes. The scheme, he said, offered a "once-in-a-lifetime opportunity" for Aberdeenshire.[/quote] Bl00dy bvllshit!!!
However, the lawyer said any damage would be far outweighed by the enormous economic benefits of the scheme, which includes a "world's finest golf course", a five-star hotel and 1450 homes. The scheme, he said, offered a "once-in-a-lifetime opportunity" for Aberdeenshire.
Bl00dy bvllshit!!!
Posted by: Los Angeles, Edinburgh on 1:03pm Sat 5 Jul 08
Trump's Lawyer In Spin Scandal[quote]a "world's finest golf course[/quote] How can all of Trump's golf course be "the world's best"?
Only[bold] one[/bold] can be best.
Trump's Lawyer In Spin Scandal
a "world's finest golf course
How can all of Trump's golf course be "the world's best"?
Only
one can be best.
Posted by: puskas, East Kilbride on 1:28pm Sat 5 Jul 08
[quote][bold]Rock Lobster[/bold] wrote:
Nobody in Scotland give's a monkeys about sand dunes. Opposition to this development is just anti-Trump guff.[/quote] I agree.. I'm opened minded and willing to let procedure take its course.
Knowing the area reasonably well I've never found many people out walking and admiring the views. It has wildlife, wildflower etc etc..... Did we not have worst problems when building a golf course on the Bonny Banks of Loch Lomond..... Has this course enhanced the area.. ?. Has it damaged/threatened wildlife. ?
Although a hotel and other housing has been planned I don't see that as been a bad thing for Menie.
Was their protests when Ravencraig, Colvilles, Whites chemical ( Rutherglen) factory et al were built . The latter in a built up area. people dying of all forms of cancers and hidden from records for many years.
Progress hindered?
Our town, cities, villages, golf courses playing fields etc. would not be around today with some of the present restrictions.
Menie as was shown on newsreel recently has pollution seeping in through the sands . Surely that has an effect on wildlife etc. ? I haven't heard of any protests of what could have catastrophic bearings on the area.. Bluebottles and flies protected species ?
What effect could that have on the housing project and hotel planned. ?
If part of the deal is to reclaim from pollution surely that would be good for the environment..
I feel although open minded that their are more plus's than minus's...
Rock Lobster wrote:
Nobody in Scotland give's a monkeys about sand dunes. Opposition to this development is just anti-Trump guff.
I agree.. I'm opened minded and willing to let procedure take its course.
Knowing the area reasonably well I've never found many people out walking and admiring the views. It has wildlife, wildflower etc etc..... Did we not have worst problems when building a golf course on the Bonny Banks of Loch Lomond..... Has this course enhanced the area.. ?. Has it damaged/threatened wildlife. ?
Although a hotel and other housing has been planned I don't see that as been a bad thing for Menie.
Was their protests when Ravencraig, Colvilles, Whites chemical ( Rutherglen) factory et al were built . The latter in a built up area. people dying of all forms of cancers and hidden from records for many years.
Progress hindered?
Our town, cities, villages, golf courses playing fields etc. would not be around today with some of the present restrictions.
Menie as was shown on newsreel recently has pollution seeping in through the sands . Surely that has an effect on wildlife etc. ? I haven't heard of any protests of what could have catastrophic bearings on the area.. Bluebottles and flies protected species ?
What effect could that have on the housing project and hotel planned. ?
If part of the deal is to reclaim from pollution surely that would be good for the environment..
I feel although open minded that their are more plus's than minus's...
Posted by: Los Angeles, Edinburgh on 1:39pm Sat 5 Jul 08
Puskas Whiskas[quote]Menie as was shown on newsreel recently has pollution seeping in through the sands .[/quote] It gets worse: folk telling us it's only good for dog crap and Trump golf courses, and now we learn they get the dividend of pollution too. Terrific.
Puskas Whiskas
Menie as was shown on newsreel recently has pollution seeping in through the sands .
It gets worse: folk telling us it's only good for dog crap and Trump golf courses, and now we learn they get the dividend of pollution too. Terrific.
Posted by: Alastair, Aberdeen on 1:45pm Sat 5 Jul 08
You have got to ask yourself this:
Q1: How many rules were broken/bent for it to even get to this stage in the first place? (I'm talking now mainly under Jokey's administration)
A: More than you've had hot dinners
Q2: If you do even the most cursory google search on this guy, and see just how bad news he is, do we really want to be entrusting a massive investment with all the jobs involved to him?
A: NO!
Q3: Does anyone really believe the long term jobs "bonus" will be anything more than a few caddies, lavvie cleaners and "bell-hops", probably within a gated community, and probably all on rolling temporary contracts?
A: NO
You have got to ask yourself this:
Q1: How many rules were broken/bent for it to even get to this stage in the first place? (I'm talking now mainly under Jokey's administration)
A: More than you've had hot dinners
Q2: If you do even the most cursory google search on this guy, and see just how bad news he is, do we really want to be entrusting a massive investment with all the jobs involved to him?
A: NO!
Q3: Does anyone really believe the long term jobs "bonus" will be anything more than a few caddies, lavvie cleaners and "bell-hops", probably within a gated community, and probably all on rolling temporary contracts?
A: NO
Posted by: puskas, East Kilbride on 4:39pm Sat 5 Jul 08
[quote][bold]Los Angeles[/bold] wrote:
Puskas Whiskas[quote]Menie as was shown on newsreel recently has pollution seeping in through the sands .[/quote] It gets worse: folk telling us it's only good for dog crap and Trump golf courses, and now we learn they get the dividend of pollution too. Terrific.[/quote] miaoo....
Los Angeles wrote:
Puskas WhiskasMenie as was shown on newsreel recently has pollution seeping in through the sands .
It gets worse: folk telling us it's only good for dog crap and Trump golf courses, and now we learn they get the dividend of pollution too. Terrific.
miaoo....
Posted by: DMcC, Basra on 7:11pm Sat 5 Jul 08
So if Donnie boy gets his way with these sand dunes - what next ?
Buying Edinburgh Castle- turning it into posh flats and a swanky casino ........... with his playgirls in attendance !!!!!!
So if Donnie boy gets his way with these sand dunes - what next ?
Buying Edinburgh Castle- turning it into posh flats and a swanky casino ........... with his playgirls in attendance !!!!!!
Posted by: alan reid, Wellington on 12:13am Sun 6 Jul 08
Politically Incorrect Woman, Well said!
Politically Incorrect Woman, Well said!
Posted by: Anne on 12:41am Sun 6 Jul 08
Attention please!
Don't miss the article in the [bold]New York Times[/bold] on Real Estate.
[bold]Trump's Adventures[/bold] (that's what it's about) in the Land of Golf.
By Fred A. Bernstein
Published July 6, 2008
[bold]WHO can blame Donald Trump for wanting to build overseas?[/bold]
This will open blinded eyes, I hope.
Attention please!
Don't miss the article in the
New York Times on Real Estate.
Trump's Adventures (that's what it's about) in the Land of Golf.
By Fred A. Bernstein
Published July 6, 2008
WHO can blame Donald Trump for wanting to build overseas?
This will open blinded eyes, I hope.
Posted by: Andrew BOD, Aberdeen on 10:18pm Sun 6 Jul 08
Alastair, Aberdeen on 1:45pm Sat 5 Jul 08 wrote:
[quote]You have got to ask yourself this:
Q1: How many rules were broken/bent for it to even get to this stage in the first place? (I'm talking now mainly under Jokey's administration)
A: More than you've had hot dinners
Q2: If you do even the most cursory google search on this guy, and see just how bad news he is, do we really want to be entrusting a massive investment with all the jobs involved to him?
A: NO!
Q3: Does anyone really believe the long term jobs "bonus" will be anything more than a few caddies, lavvie cleaners and "bell-hops", probably within a gated community, and probably all on rolling temporary contracts?
A: NO[/quote]
I hope you passed all of your enlightening information onto the PLI Reporters before the Inquiry finished. I'm sure they take all drivel into consideration.
YOU have got to ask yourself this:
Why have Aberdeenshire Council, the Authority responsible for Trump development, just received a glowing endorsement from Audit Scotland, and been cited as an example of how a Local Authority should be run?
Doesn't really fit with your pathetic claims, does it?
Alastair, Aberdeen on 1:45pm Sat 5 Jul 08 wrote:
You have got to ask yourself this:
Q1: How many rules were broken/bent for it to even get to this stage in the first place? (I'm talking now mainly under Jokey's administration)
A: More than you've had hot dinners
Q2: If you do even the most cursory google search on this guy, and see just how bad news he is, do we really want to be entrusting a massive investment with all the jobs involved to him?
A: NO!
Q3: Does anyone really believe the long term jobs "bonus" will be anything more than a few caddies, lavvie cleaners and "bell-hops", probably within a gated community, and probably all on rolling temporary contracts?
A: NO
I hope you passed all of your enlightening information onto the PLI Reporters before the Inquiry finished. I'm sure they take all drivel into consideration.
YOU have got to ask yourself this:
Why have Aberdeenshire Council, the Authority responsible for Trump development, just received a glowing endorsement from Audit Scotland, and been cited as an example of how a Local Authority should be run?
Doesn't really fit with your pathetic claims, does it?
Posted by: Andrew BOD, Aberdeen on 10:25pm Sun 6 Jul 08
Rock Lobster, North o the Tay on 5:36am Sat 5 Jul 08
[quote]Nobody in Scotland give's a monkeys about sand dunes.
Opposition to this development is just anti-Trump guff.[/quote]
[bold]Dead right Rock Lobster, Anti-Trump guff is exactly what it is.[/bold]
You just need to look at a small sample of threads on this proposed development to see it's about Trump. He's an easy target without having to do the real homework on the pros and cons of the actual development.
Rock Lobster, North o the Tay on 5:36am Sat 5 Jul 08
Nobody in Scotland give's a monkeys about sand dunes.
Opposition to this development is just anti-Trump guff.
Dead right Rock Lobster, Anti-Trump guff is exactly what it is.
You just need to look at a small sample of threads on this proposed development to see it's about Trump. He's an easy target without having to do the real homework on the pros and cons of the actual development.
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