Nine votes save Brown from terror humiliation
 |
| MOMENT OF TRUTH: MPs learn result of the vote over 42-day detention |
MICHAEL SETTLE and TORCUIL CRICHTON
Gordon Brown's slender victory on 42 days' detention without charge was branded "hollow" by his opponents last night after he had to rely on the votes of nine Democratic Unionists and four other opposition MPs, including Tory back bencher Ann Widdecombe and UKIP's Bob Spink.
The Prime Minister's in-built majority of 66 disappeared as 36 Labour MPs - including Katy Clark, representing North Ayrshire and Arran - rebelled on the UK Government's flagship Counter Terrorism Bill. The vote was 315 votes to 306 - a majority of nine.
Had the DUP abstained, Mr Brown's majority would have disappeared, leaving the Speaker, Michael Martin, to use his casting vote. Given that, by convention, he votes with the status quo, then the UK Government would have been defeated.
After the vote was read out, there were heated scenes in the Commons chamber as Tory and Liberal Democrat MPs pointed towards the DUP, accusing them of being "bought".
Outside, Nigel Dodds, the MP for Belfast North who is Finance Minister in the Stormont Assembly, strenuously denied securing a deal with Mr Brown. "There is no question of any deal being done. The decision was made in the best interests of the country on the grounds of national security," he insisted.
Last night it was clear the parliamentary battle is far from over as the bill now goes to the House of Lords, where it faces almost certain defeat.
Lord Wallace of Tankerness, the ex-LibDem MP and former Deputy First Minister, told The Herald: "There's been no substantial case to justify what the PM is wanting."
The day was characterised by passionate debate and high drama with the Prime Minister supposedly spending hours persuading MPs to back the move to extend pre-charge detention of terror suspects from the current 28 days to 42.
Jacqui Smith, the Home Secretary, secured the backing of Mohammad Sarwar, the Glasgow Central MP, who had been opposed to 42 days, after offering a compensation scheme for suspects held for more than the current 28 days but not subsequently charged.
Labour back bencher Austin Mitchell admitted he had intended to vote against the UK Government but changed his mind to "save Gordon Brown for the nation", adding that had the PM lost the vote he "would be on his way out".
David Davis for the Conservatives claimed the UK Government had lost the argument "hands down" and had "bought the vote".
Nick Clegg, the LibDem leader, said: "What we have seen is the sacrifice of principle in order to save the skin of a sinking Prime Minister."
Pete Wishart for the SNP said: "This is the worst of all outcomes for Gordon Brown. He can no longer rely on his own MPs for a parliamentary majority but is instead hanging by an Ulster thread."
Bill McVicar of the Law Society of Scotland commented: "I'm disappointed the UK Government has proceeded with the legislation against the advice they have been given by the DPP in England and the Lord Advocate in Scotland."
However, Tony McNulty, the Home Office Minister, insisted it would be "perverse" to interpret the vote as damaging to Mr Brown.
Rumours circulated of concessions to Labour back benchers on issues such as £1bn of injury compensation to miners. Supposed sweeteners to Northern Irish politicians included easing water charges in Ulster to the tune of £200m. No 10 denied any deals had been done.
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Posted by: Los Angeles, Edinburgh on 11:21pm Wed 11 Jun 08
A shameful day for so-called democratic politicians.
A shameful day for so-called democratic politicians.
Posted by: frank mcbride, lusitania on 11:25pm Wed 11 Jun 08
When we have an overt alliance of NuLabour and the DUP, you know that the UK is in serious difficulty.
When we have an overt alliance of NuLabour and the DUP, you know that the UK is in serious difficulty.
Posted by: wee folding bike on 11:32pm Wed 11 Jun 08
Does anyone believe the documents on a train story?
It took up the first 25 mins of Newsnight and diverted attention from Brown. I suspect we will never hear about this again and nobody will be to blame but it may have done its job.
Does anyone believe the documents on a train story?
It took up the first 25 mins of Newsnight and diverted attention from Brown. I suspect we will never hear about this again and nobody will be to blame but it may have done its job.
Posted by: haud me back, glasgow on 11:33pm Wed 11 Jun 08
No fear, Martin would have voted with his pal Broon and the thing would have gone through...no impartiality with this lowlife....hes a Labour man firmly in the trough
No fear, Martin would have voted with his pal Broon and the thing would have gone through...no impartiality with this lowlife....hes a Labour man firmly in the trough
Posted by: nouveauxscum on 11:33pm Wed 11 Jun 08
Democracy in flames, as Ranting Rab might rant.
Brown gets his way for the moment and that's all that matters. I'm reminded of many a billy-no-mates at school bribing and coercing other kids to do their bidding. It's all gonna hurt more when the end finally comes for Gordy.
Gordy-nae-mates
Democracy in flames, as Ranting Rab might rant.
Brown gets his way for the moment and that's all that matters. I'm reminded of many a billy-no-mates at school bribing and coercing other kids to do their bidding. It's all gonna hurt more when the end finally comes for Gordy.
Gordy-nae-mates
Posted by: Kadok, West End on 11:34pm Wed 11 Jun 08
Today Gordon Brown threw England's greatest contribution to the free world - the Magna Carta - onto the midden. He is an embarrassment to Scotland. A complete disgrace.
Today Gordon Brown threw England's greatest contribution to the free world - the Magna Carta - onto the midden. He is an embarrassment to Scotland. A complete disgrace.
Posted by: Graham, Glasgow on 11:35pm Wed 11 Jun 08
A definate day for people that oppose fundamentalist terrorists and their apologists. Well done the DUP. People were blown to bits in restaurants, bus stations, machine gunned in churches, women children etc for a so called cause. Some of the Nat supporters that will now make excuses for this are about to have their say. Read what they have to say. And the excuses! You will then know you voted in the right way.[bold]bold[/bold]
A definate day for people that oppose fundamentalist terrorists and their apologists. Well done the DUP. People were blown to bits in restaurants, bus stations, machine gunned in churches, women children etc for a so called cause. Some of the Nat supporters that will now make excuses for this are about to have their say. Read what they have to say. And the excuses! You will then know you voted in the right way.
Posted by: nouveauxscum on 11:38pm Wed 11 Jun 08
[quote][bold]Graham[/bold] wrote:
A definate day for people that oppose fundamentalist terrorists and their apologists. Well done the DUP. People were blown to bits in restaurants, bus stations, machine gunned in churches, women children etc for a so called cause. Some of the Nat supporters that will now make excuses for this are about to have their say. Read what they have to say. And the excuses! You will then know you voted in the right way.[bold]bold[/bold] [/quote] May I ask what you are talking about Graham?
Graham wrote:
A definate day for people that oppose fundamentalist terrorists and their apologists. Well done the DUP. People were blown to bits in restaurants, bus stations, machine gunned in churches, women children etc for a so called cause. Some of the Nat supporters that will now make excuses for this are about to have their say. Read what they have to say. And the excuses! You will then know you voted in the right way.
May I ask what you are talking about Graham?
Posted by: Graham, Glasgow on 11:40pm Wed 11 Jun 08
Kadok. 11;34. Have you read the Magna Carta![bold]bold[/bold]
Kadok. 11;34. Have you read the Magna Carta!
Posted by: bob mckay, glasgow on 11:41pm Wed 11 Jun 08
[quote][bold]Los Angeles[/bold] wrote:
A shameful day for so-called democratic politicians.[/quote] Eh? The fact it was so split isnt shameful its healthy! Would you rather it was 630 t0 nil? Strange democrats!!
I didnt want this amendment and thankfully the lords will kill it but what i found fascinating was the news tonight on both main channels.
Did they lead with the prime ministers win? No headline story was two page file left on train.
Loss of a civil liberty and the beginning of a police state? Not the first news. No, the agenda setters are out for Irn Brown big style. Denied the expected vote of no confidence after the expected defeat...the headline news lost no time in pilloring Brown; unless Gordon Brown left the folder? Nice timing that leaving the terrorist report on a train....and then not taking it to the police or god forbid the government...straigh
t to the BBC!! anyone else smell a rat?
Now im no Gordon Brown fan but im less of a David "check his scalp for 666" Cameron fan; its clear the eentire media has turned; we are heading for another tory goverment in two years; time to emigrate.
Los Angeles wrote:
A shameful day for so-called democratic politicians.
Eh? The fact it was so split isnt shameful its healthy! Would you rather it was 630 t0 nil? Strange democrats!!
I didnt want this amendment and thankfully the lords will kill it but what i found fascinating was the news tonight on both main channels.
Did they lead with the prime ministers win? No headline story was two page file left on train.
Loss of a civil liberty and the beginning of a police state? Not the first news. No, the agenda setters are out for Irn Brown big style. Denied the expected vote of no confidence after the expected defeat...the headline news lost no time in pilloring Brown; unless Gordon Brown left the folder? Nice timing that leaving the terrorist report on a train....and then not taking it to the police or god forbid the government...straigh
t to the BBC!! anyone else smell a rat?
Now im no Gordon Brown fan but im less of a David "check his scalp for 666" Cameron fan; its clear the eentire media has turned; we are heading for another tory goverment in two years; time to emigrate.
Posted by: Graham, Glasgow on 11:46pm Wed 11 Jun 08
11:38pm. Yes you may ask. But I assume you can read.[bold]bold[/bold]
11:38pm. Yes you may ask. But I assume you can read.
Posted by: Alex Porter, Madrid on 11:46pm Wed 11 Jun 08
Headlines:
Gordon and Brownshirst Usurp Democracy.
bob mckay:
"we are heading for another tory goverment in two years; time to emigrate." Well, there's always the alternative of independence. Much healthier than either scenario.
Headlines:
Gordon and Brownshirst Usurp Democracy.
bob mckay:
"we are heading for another tory goverment in two years; time to emigrate." Well, there's always the alternative of independence. Much healthier than either scenario.
Posted by: Jock Politicaljunkie, Glasgow on 11:46pm Wed 11 Jun 08
[bold]ANNUAL REPORT[/bold]
Name: Sergeant Brown, Gordon
Number: D0000001
Posting: Recruiting Sergeant, Al Qaida.
Performance: A1
Notes: NOT suitable for any other posting due to limited intellect.
ANNUAL REPORT
Name: Sergeant Brown, Gordon
Number: D0000001
Posting: Recruiting Sergeant, Al Qaida.
Performance: A1
Notes: NOT suitable for any other posting due to limited intellect.
Posted by: Los Angeles, Edinburgh on 11:53pm Wed 11 Jun 08
McKay's Prize[quote]The fact it was so split isnt shameful its healthy![/quote] This statement is nonsensical. It is not a pair of trousers we are debating. It is civil liberty.
What is healthy about the withdrawal of human rights?
McKay's Prize
The fact it was so split isnt shameful its healthy!
This statement is nonsensical. It is not a pair of trousers we are debating. It is civil liberty.
What is healthy about the withdrawal of human rights?
Posted by: nouveauxscum on 11:55pm Wed 11 Jun 08
[quote][bold]Graham[/bold] wrote:
11:38pm. Yes you may ask. But I assume you can read.[bold]bold[/bold] [/quote] Clearly yes, but I'm not sure why you are attempting to associate Irish political violence with the peaceful, democratic independence movement in Scotland.
I mean, it's not as though the Scottish Government would be open, or receptive to, bribes from Brown.
Graham wrote:
11:38pm. Yes you may ask. But I assume you can read.
Clearly yes, but I'm not sure why you are attempting to associate Irish political violence with the peaceful, democratic independence movement in Scotland.
I mean, it's not as though the Scottish Government would be open, or receptive to, bribes from Brown.
Posted by: Graham, Glasgow on 11:57pm Wed 11 Jun 08
AP,11:46. Plenty of brownshirts in Madrid to keep you occupied Alex.
Is yer man Franco still yer hero![bold]bold[/bold]
AP,11:46. Plenty of brownshirts in Madrid to keep you occupied Alex.
Is yer man Franco still yer hero!
Posted by: bob mckay, glasgow on 11:57pm Wed 11 Jun 08
[quote][bold]Alex Porter[/bold] wrote:
Headlines: Gordon and Brownshirst Usurp Democracy. bob mckay: "we are heading for another tory goverment in two years; time to emigrate." Well, there's always the alternative of independence. Much healthier than either scenario.[/quote] Which election comes first? And by no means certain of independance, odds still against it whereas a tory govt is absolute certainty. Labour is self destructing and Gordon Brown is getting worse press than Gary Glitter. I dont agree with a lot of nu labour policy but i do admire Gordon Brown. And my problem with you nats is Gordon Brown is a scotsman; he's partly being pilloried down south because he is scotsman; but he;s not your type of scotsman, so thats all right then.
Alex Porter wrote:
Headlines: Gordon and Brownshirst Usurp Democracy. bob mckay: "we are heading for another tory goverment in two years; time to emigrate." Well, there's always the alternative of independence. Much healthier than either scenario.
Which election comes first? And by no means certain of independance, odds still against it whereas a tory govt is absolute certainty. Labour is self destructing and Gordon Brown is getting worse press than Gary Glitter. I dont agree with a lot of nu labour policy but i do admire Gordon Brown. And my problem with you nats is Gordon Brown is a scotsman; he's partly being pilloried down south because he is scotsman; but he;s not your type of scotsman, so thats all right then.
Posted by: Los Angeles, Edinburgh on 11:58pm Wed 11 Jun 08
Our local lumpen lodge stodge is turning it around onto the "nats" as if they invaded Iraq, encouraging terrorists - playing the patriotic card, not that [bold]he[/bold] means to enlist and pick up a rifle.
Our local lumpen lodge stodge is turning it around onto the "nats" as if they invaded Iraq, encouraging terrorists - playing the patriotic card, not that
he means to enlist and pick up a rifle.
Posted by: Los Angeles, Edinburgh on Thu 12 Jun 08
McKay's Prize[quote]independance,[/quote] [bold]INDEPENDENCE![/bold]
How difficult is it to get the one key word right? All the "ees", please.
McKay's Prize
independance,
INDEPENDENCE!
How difficult is it to get the one key word right? All the "ees", please.
Posted by: nouveauxscum on 12:01am Thu 12 Jun 08
£50 for anyone providing a link to Gordy describing himself as Scottish.
He's a British man being pilloried by his fellow Brits.
£50 for anyone providing a link to Gordy describing himself as Scottish.
He's a British man being pilloried by his fellow Brits.
Posted by: Graham, Glasgow on 12:03am Thu 12 Jun 08
11:55pm. I am not attempting anything. I was just mentioning to the DUP to keep an eye on Nat comments. Whats wrong with that in a democratic society![bold]bold[/bold]
11:55pm. I am not attempting anything. I was just mentioning to the DUP to keep an eye on Nat comments. Whats wrong with that in a democratic society!
Posted by: wee folding bike on 12:03am Thu 12 Jun 08
bob,
As far as I can tell Gordon Brown doesn't see himself as a Scot. His emphasis is always on Britain.
bob,
As far as I can tell Gordon Brown doesn't see himself as a Scot. His emphasis is always on Britain.
Posted by: nouveauxscum on 12:05am Thu 12 Jun 08
[quote][bold]Graham[/bold] wrote:
11:55pm. I am not attempting anything. I was just mentioning to the DUP to keep an eye on Nat comments. Whats wrong with that in a democratic society![bold]bold[/bold] [/quote] Absolutely nothing, but what is the relevance?
Graham wrote:
11:55pm. I am not attempting anything. I was just mentioning to the DUP to keep an eye on Nat comments. Whats wrong with that in a democratic society!
Absolutely nothing, but what is the relevance?
Posted by: Los Angeles, Edinburgh on 12:07am Thu 12 Jun 08
[quote]He's a British man being pilloried by his fellow Brits.[/quote] Poor ****.
He is unable to belong to anything, neither Labour nor Tory, neither socialist nor capitalist, neither Scotsman nor Englishman, neither prime minister nor stateman, neither dynamic nor slothful, just plain Jane downright dour.
But he sure can plot the overthrow of an elected government in his own homeland. When it comes to subterfuge and betrayal the man is on fire!
He's a British man being pilloried by his fellow Brits.
Poor ****.
He is unable to belong to anything, neither Labour nor Tory, neither socialist nor capitalist, neither Scotsman nor Englishman, neither prime minister nor stateman, neither dynamic nor slothful, just plain Jane downright dour.
But he sure can plot the overthrow of an elected government in his own homeland. When it comes to subterfuge and betrayal the man is on fire!
Posted by: Graham, Glasgow on 12:20am Thu 12 Jun 08
12:05, The relevance is in what people are thinking. Especially the ones that tell you what they are thinking![bold]bold[/bold]
12:05, The relevance is in what people are thinking. Especially the ones that tell you what they are thinking!
Posted by: nouveauxscum on 12:25am Thu 12 Jun 08
[quote][bold]Graham[/bold] wrote:
12:05, The relevance is in what people are thinking. Especially the ones that tell you what they are thinking![bold]bold[/bold] [/quote] OK, who for instance?
Why would the DUP be interested in what we peaceful Scots have to say on these blogs?
Graham wrote:
12:05, The relevance is in what people are thinking. Especially the ones that tell you what they are thinking!
OK, who for instance?
Why would the DUP be interested in what we peaceful Scots have to say on these blogs?
Posted by: Cynicus, Scotland on 12:32am Thu 12 Jun 08
DUP=DUMB UNIONIST PARTY?
Not is tonight's news is to be believed -that they extracted 1 billion quid in benefits for their bailiwicks.from GB. These are people, moreover, who have not baulked at locking up "terrorist suspects" without trial in aforesaid bailiwicks. And now Gordy bungs them a billion to back something they've done for free.
DUP=DUMB UNIONIST PARTY?
Not is tonight's news is to be believed -that they extracted 1 billion quid in benefits for their bailiwicks.from GB. These are people, moreover, who have not baulked at locking up "terrorist suspects" without trial in aforesaid bailiwicks. And now Gordy bungs them a billion to back something they've done for free.
Posted by: Archie, Argyll on 12:37am Thu 12 Jun 08
Nine votes save Brown from terror humiliation?
"Last night it was clear the parliamentary battle is far from over as the bill now goes to the House of Lords, where it faces almost certain defeat."
Doesn't this undermine the headline somewhat?
Nine votes save Brown from terror humiliation?
"Last night it was clear the parliamentary battle is far from over as the bill now goes to the House of Lords, where it faces almost certain defeat."
Doesn't this undermine the headline somewhat?
Posted by: Ronald, Glasgow on 12:50am Thu 12 Jun 08
Whenever there's a dirty deal to be done, call on the DUP ! And by goodnes this is one dirty deal too far. These are the men who are
British when convenient, and Irish when its not. Being held to ransome by this filthy right wing rable is appaling.
But moving on from there ; just saw repeat of C4 Dispaches prog
shinning the spotlight on "Maggie" Brown. And what was most amusing was seeing the clown who has already lost the forthcoming election for NEW - LABOUR and I refer of course to our own dear
Noble M'Lord Murray Elder, who, by advising his "friend" Gordon
not to go to the country last year, when they would almost certainly have won,has dealt the NEW-LABOUR PROJECT a mortal blow. Your LORDSHIP, I salute you !!
Whenever there's a dirty deal to be done, call on the DUP ! And by goodnes this is one dirty deal too far. These are the men who are
British when convenient, and Irish when its not. Being held to ransome by this filthy right wing rable is appaling.
But moving on from there ; just saw repeat of C4 Dispaches prog
shinning the spotlight on "Maggie" Brown. And what was most amusing was seeing the clown who has already lost the forthcoming election for NEW - LABOUR and I refer of course to our own dear
Noble M'Lord Murray Elder, who, by advising his "friend" Gordon
not to go to the country last year, when they would almost certainly have won,has dealt the NEW-LABOUR PROJECT a mortal blow. Your LORDSHIP, I salute you !!
Posted by: nostress, prague on 12:50am Thu 12 Jun 08
Labour back bencher Austin Mitchell admitted he had intended to vote against the UK Government but changed his mind to "save Gordon Brown for the nation", adding that had the PM lost the vote he "would be on his way out".
Mmhm..."save Gordon Brown for the nation"...is that perchance a precursor to having him stuffed?
Labour back bencher Austin Mitchell admitted he had intended to vote against the UK Government but changed his mind to "save Gordon Brown for the nation", adding that had the PM lost the vote he "would be on his way out".
Mmhm..."save Gordon Brown for the nation"...is that perchance a precursor to having him stuffed?
Posted by: Graham, Glasgow on 12:58am Thu 12 Jun 08
12:25am. They would be interested in the Union! Like me, not you.[bold]bold[/bold]
12:25am. They would be interested in the Union! Like me, not you.
Posted by: Graham, Glasgow on 1:00am Thu 12 Jun 08
12:25am. Peaceful Scots, now you are a joker![bold]bold[/bold]
12:25am. Peaceful Scots, now you are a joker!
Posted by: nouveauxscum on 1:15am Thu 12 Jun 08
[quote][bold]Graham[/bold] wrote:
12:25am. They would be interested in the Union! Like me, not you.[bold]bold[/bold] [/quote] Well, that's fair enough I suppose if said interests extend to support of illegal wars, nearly a million murdered in said wars, pensioners freezing to death, worst child poverty in western Europe, Scotland being lied to about its true wealth, politicians admitting of malversations going unpunished, highest fuel prices in Europe and taxes on everything that casts a shadow.
That Union? Our Unequal Union?
Graham wrote:
12:25am. They would be interested in the Union! Like me, not you.
Well, that's fair enough I suppose if said interests extend to support of illegal wars, nearly a million murdered in said wars, pensioners freezing to death, worst child poverty in western Europe, Scotland being lied to about its true wealth, politicians admitting of malversations going unpunished, highest fuel prices in Europe and taxes on everything that casts a shadow.
That Union? Our Unequal Union?
Posted by: Steve A, Glasgow on 1:16am Thu 12 Jun 08
999 Posts couldn't save Graham from humiliation!
999 Posts couldn't save Graham from humiliation!
Posted by: nouveauxscum on 1:17am Thu 12 Jun 08
[quote][bold]Graham[/bold] wrote:
12:25am. Peaceful Scots, now you are a joker![bold]bold[/bold] [/quote] Why? We'll free ourselves from Westminster without any violence.
Graham wrote:
12:25am. Peaceful Scots, now you are a joker!
Why? We'll free ourselves from Westminster without any violence.
Posted by: Graham, Glasgow on 1:33am Thu 12 Jun 08
Non violence Nats on the march. Sounds like a movie! Maybe Mel will make it.[bold]bold[/bold]
Non violence Nats on the march. Sounds like a movie! Maybe Mel will make it.
Posted by: nouveauxscum on 1:40am Thu 12 Jun 08
[quote][bold]Graham[/bold] wrote:
Non violence Nats on the march. Sounds like a movie! Maybe Mel will make it.[bold]bold[/bold] [/quote] Of all the Unionists in all the Imperial gin joints in all the....
I know it's a queer fascination with many a Unionist Graham but I don't think I've ever seen you jump on the Mel bandwagon before. Perhaps it's an affinity with the man rather than his movies.
Graham wrote:
Non violence Nats on the march. Sounds like a movie! Maybe Mel will make it.
Of all the Unionists in all the Imperial gin joints in all the....
I know it's a queer fascination with many a Unionist Graham but I don't think I've ever seen you jump on the Mel bandwagon before. Perhaps it's an affinity with the man rather than his movies.
Posted by: Jwil, Lanarkshire on 1:42am Thu 12 Jun 08
Brown's win on this issue will not make one iota of difference in lifting his pole ratings. Probably the very opposite. The methods he has used to win the vote will just demonstrate to the public how devious he is. No moral compass!
Brown's win on this issue will not make one iota of difference in lifting his pole ratings. Probably the very opposite. The methods he has used to win the vote will just demonstrate to the public how devious he is. No moral compass!
Posted by: Graham, Glasgow on 2:09am Thu 12 Jun 08
Nouv,1:40am. Its not my queer fascination. It was just a wee Mel dare and do bit of fun. I have no affinity.[bold]bold[/bold]
Nouv,1:40am. Its not my queer fascination. It was just a wee Mel dare and do bit of fun. I have no affinity.
Posted by: Graham, Glasgow on 2:13am Thu 12 Jun 08
Jwil,1:42.am. A moral compass is not required in London. The public transport can take you anywhere required.[bold]bold[/bold]
Jwil,1:42.am. A moral compass is not required in London. The public transport can take you anywhere required.
Posted by: nouveauxscum on 2:21am Thu 12 Jun 08
[quote][bold]Graham[/bold] wrote:
Nouv,1:40am. Its not my queer fascination. It was just a wee Mel dare and do bit of fun. I have no affinity.[bold]bold[/bold] [/quote] Mel is so last century Graham. Unionism needs a new effigy to burn (wee DUP tie-in there) collectively, and metaphorically they have it with 42 days.
It's a farce though - what self-respecting jihad merchant that has lasted 28 days of ineffable insults couldn't tough it out for another two weeks?
It's Broon that needs banged up - for his own health.
Graham wrote:
Nouv,1:40am. Its not my queer fascination. It was just a wee Mel dare and do bit of fun. I have no affinity.
Mel is so last century Graham. Unionism needs a new effigy to burn (wee DUP tie-in there) collectively, and metaphorically they have it with 42 days.
It's a farce though - what self-respecting jihad merchant that has lasted 28 days of ineffable insults couldn't tough it out for another two weeks?
It's Broon that needs banged up - for his own health.
Posted by: Donald Anderson, glasgow on 2:59am Thu 12 Jun 08
the Maggie Carta only gave more power to the Church and the barons and hee haw to the English peasants.
Labour back benders are a right wing shower and Union Jack Tories.
the Maggie Carta only gave more power to the Church and the barons and hee haw to the English peasants.
Labour back benders are a right wing shower and Union Jack Tories.
Posted by: Scunnert, Travelling in Nihlon on 3:54am Thu 12 Jun 08
Nine votes condemn Britons to terror and humiliation!!!
Ah'm just gled Ah'm no a Brit and that mah country can get the hell oot ae the UK.
Nine votes condemn Britons to terror and humiliation!!!
Ah'm just gled Ah'm no a Brit and that mah country can get the hell oot ae the UK.
Posted by: wisnaeme, wisnae there on 4:00am Thu 12 Jun 08
I remember with human compassion hoping for better times for ordinary folk of both traditions and none, the day peace broke out in Northern Ireland.
Bridge piers still had to be anchored on solid foundations to stand firm across the great divide. Suspicion and hostility still resided amongst a 'Troubles' weary populace but still, there was the hope..
By their support of this so called UK war on terror legislation, by their support of this assault on civil liberties, the D U P may have resurrected unease and suspicion amongst those who have had bitter memories of union and unionism.
The D U P may have thought the fiscal reward beneficial to themselves and Northern Ireland with this dubious display of democracy and" freedoms for sale". But I have my reservations that what came cheap at their price in the name of 'security'. may cost more than mere fiscal reward.
Former UK Governments and the UK establishment in the past have been renown for their miscalculations.
The present UK government administration is now perceived by many to be no exception to that conclusion. Indeed, since 1997 they have excelled in the miscalculations. Without admitting the responsibilities of accounting for them, morally, financially, or with any degree of credibility in any shape or form.
Folk have a tendency to be wary of false gods promising gifts. Particularly amongst many Northern Irish folk in matters concerning law, terror and terrorists.
and if those false gods and their followers promising gifts come in the guise of the " Brit" unionist establishment,then I would advise the recipients of such promises to be very, very wary indeed.
.
.
I remember with human compassion hoping for better times for ordinary folk of both traditions and none, the day peace broke out in Northern Ireland.
Bridge piers still had to be anchored on solid foundations to stand firm across the great divide. Suspicion and hostility still resided amongst a 'Troubles' weary populace but still, there was the hope..
By their support of this so called UK war on terror legislation, by their support of this assault on civil liberties, the D U P may have resurrected unease and suspicion amongst those who have had bitter memories of union and unionism.
The D U P may have thought the fiscal reward beneficial to themselves and Northern Ireland with this dubious display of democracy and" freedoms for sale". But I have my reservations that what came cheap at their price in the name of 'security'. may cost more than mere fiscal reward.
Former UK Governments and the UK establishment in the past have been renown for their miscalculations.
The present UK government administration is now perceived by many to be no exception to that conclusion. Indeed, since 1997 they have excelled in the miscalculations. Without admitting the responsibilities of accounting for them, morally, financially, or with any degree of credibility in any shape or form.
Folk have a tendency to be wary of false gods promising gifts. Particularly amongst many Northern Irish folk in matters concerning law, terror and terrorists.
and if those false gods and their followers promising gifts come in the guise of the " Brit" unionist establishment,then I would advise the recipients of such promises to be very, very wary indeed.
.
.
Posted by: Alex Porter, Madrid on 6:23am Thu 12 Jun 08
Graham,
How's ma wee stalker? Eh, my students know all about my antipathy for the PP but I wouldn't want to strip you of your delusions.
bob mckay,
Eh, his nationality is irrelevant except that he's a national embarrassment to his country which he has lied to regularly, As for the election - a majority of SNP MPs at a Westminster election has long been considered an automatic mandate for independence. It now looks very possible that the SNP will secure that.
My kind of Scotsman, for the record, is one who regardless of convictions never uses dishonourable tactics to serve his own ambition. A unionists like Mcwhirter for example...
Graham,
How's ma wee stalker? Eh, my students know all about my antipathy for the PP but I wouldn't want to strip you of your delusions.
bob mckay,
Eh, his nationality is irrelevant except that he's a national embarrassment to his country which he has lied to regularly, As for the election - a majority of SNP MPs at a Westminster election has long been considered an automatic mandate for independence. It now looks very possible that the SNP will secure that.
My kind of Scotsman, for the record, is one who regardless of convictions never uses dishonourable tactics to serve his own ambition. A unionists like Mcwhirter for example...
Posted by: Jimmy the Pie, Orkney on 7:12am Thu 12 Jun 08
Graham, you have no need to feel ashamed being gay.
You have every reason to feel ashamed of the drivel you spout.
Graham, you have no need to feel ashamed being gay.
You have every reason to feel ashamed of the drivel you spout.
Posted by: steve4349, larbet on 7:36am Thu 12 Jun 08
broon and labour have reduced westminster to the status of a banana republic with bribes for votes and promises of future aid for mps seats for votes,robert mugabe acts in the same way
broon and labour have reduced westminster to the status of a banana republic with bribes for votes and promises of future aid for mps seats for votes,robert mugabe acts in the same way
Posted by: McSomeone, Scotland on 7:51am Thu 12 Jun 08
We're very sorry to report to the house that the 42 day detention isn't working and we feel that it is in the best interests of this country's security that we now extend it too; 60, er, no best make that 120 days with a proviso that we can extend it to 18 months in the case that 120 days doesn't work.
Roll on UDI.
We're very sorry to report to the house that the 42 day detention isn't working and we feel that it is in the best interests of this country's security that we now extend it too; 60, er, no best make that 120 days with a proviso that we can extend it to 18 months in the case that 120 days doesn't work.
Roll on UDI.
Posted by: BM, Glasgow on 7:57am Thu 12 Jun 08
The headline is wrong. They did not save him from humiliation, they saved him from defeat.
The headline is wrong. They did not save him from humiliation, they saved him from defeat.
Posted by: BM, Glasgow on 7:59am Thu 12 Jun 08
[quote][bold]Jock Politicaljunkie[/bold] wrote:
[bold]ANNUAL REPORT[/bold]
Name: Sergeant Brown, Gordon
Number: D0000001
Posting: Recruiting Sergeant, Al Qaida.
Performance: A1
Notes: NOT suitable for any other posting due to limited intellect.[/quote] So you've seen the document left on the train!
Jock Politicaljunkie wrote:
ANNUAL REPORT
Name: Sergeant Brown, Gordon
Number: D0000001
Posting: Recruiting Sergeant, Al Qaida.
Performance: A1
Notes: NOT suitable for any other posting due to limited intellect.
So you've seen the document left on the train!
Posted by: interstellarmince, outer-space on 8:02am Thu 12 Jun 08
[quote][bold]wee folding bike[/bold] wrote:
bob, As far as I can tell Gordon Brown doesn't see himself as a Scot. His emphasis is always on Britain.[/quote] Broon isn't a Scot or a Briton, he's an alien doppleganger swap-oot doing his Black Nobility Establishment masters bidding...
wee folding bike wrote:
bob, As far as I can tell Gordon Brown doesn't see himself as a Scot. His emphasis is always on Britain.
Broon isn't a Scot or a Briton, he's an alien doppleganger swap-oot doing his Black Nobility Establishment masters bidding...
Posted by: davieboy on 8:13am Thu 12 Jun 08
I think the DUP have done the right thing here for Northern Ireland as it is no secret that the Lords will vote the bill down in any case. In the meantime the executive in Northern Ireland has, reportedly, another £200m in the coffers.
What the DUP has did here is that it has used its parliamentary representation to squeeze a deal out of the UK government fro the betterment of their constituents, something the wee Eck was suggesting not too long ago that the SNP might be able to do after the next UK election.
If I were Peter Robinson I would see it as £200m for nowt.
I think the DUP have done the right thing here for Northern Ireland as it is no secret that the Lords will vote the bill down in any case. In the meantime the executive in Northern Ireland has, reportedly, another £200m in the coffers.
What the DUP has did here is that it has used its parliamentary representation to squeeze a deal out of the UK government fro the betterment of their constituents, something the wee Eck was suggesting not too long ago that the SNP might be able to do after the next UK election.
If I were Peter Robinson I would see it as £200m for nowt.
Posted by: troll, pomona on 8:33am Thu 12 Jun 08
So those unelected toff in the lords are going to save our civil liberties AGAIN.
Lets have a vote to get rid of them or fill the second house with nu labour pop stars and luvvies
So those unelected toff in the lords are going to save our civil liberties AGAIN.
Lets have a vote to get rid of them or fill the second house with nu labour pop stars and luvvies
Posted by: Disgusted Dorothy, Glasgow on 8:44am Thu 12 Jun 08
Go visit Guido Fawkes site.
He says,they have got it in the bag and are trying to set the ground for the "Gordon Wins" stories for which the Brownies think it is well worth tearing up the Magna Carta.
Congratulations are due to the honourable member for Glasgow central, Mohammed Sarwar, who has secured, as the price for his voting for 42 days detention, assurances that he can pass his seat down to his son. It seems the Labour Party was only against hereditary peers, but are more than happy with family seats for MPs..
Go visit Guido Fawkes site.
He says,they have got it in the bag and are trying to set the ground for the "Gordon Wins" stories for which the Brownies think it is well worth tearing up the Magna Carta.
Congratulations are due to the honourable member for Glasgow central, Mohammed Sarwar, who has secured, as the price for his voting for 42 days detention, assurances that he can pass his seat down to his son. It seems the Labour Party was only against hereditary peers, but are more than happy with family seats for MPs..
Posted by: Cadgers, Perth on 8:45am Thu 12 Jun 08
[quote]Posted by: wee folding bike on 11:32pm Wed 11 Jun 08
Does anyone believe the documents on a train story? It took up the first 25 mins of Newsnight and diverted attention from Brown. I suspect we will never hear about this again and nobody will be to blame but it may have done its job.
Does anyone believe the documents on a train story?
It took up the first 25 mins of Newsnight and diverted attention from Brown. I suspect we will never hear about this again and nobody will be to blame but it may have done its job.[/quote]
I'm glad it's not just me that thought that wee folding bike. Who is this high up heid yin who takes out oh so top secret papers on the train to read and then forgets them? Very strange.
Posted by: wee folding bike on 11:32pm Wed 11 Jun 08
Does anyone believe the documents on a train story? It took up the first 25 mins of Newsnight and diverted attention from Brown. I suspect we will never hear about this again and nobody will be to blame but it may have done its job.
Does anyone believe the documents on a train story?
It took up the first 25 mins of Newsnight and diverted attention from Brown. I suspect we will never hear about this again and nobody will be to blame but it may have done its job.
I'm glad it's not just me that thought that wee folding bike. Who is this high up heid yin who takes out oh so top secret papers on the train to read and then forgets them? Very strange.
Posted by: Disgusted Dorothy, Glasgow on 8:48am Thu 12 Jun 08
Go visit Guido Fawkes site ,most interesting!
Go visit Guido Fawkes site ,most interesting!
Posted by: Politically-incorrec
t Man, Glasgow on 9:07am Thu 12 Jun 08
[quote]Labour back bencher Austin Mitchell admitted he had intended to vote against the UK Government but changed his mind to "save Gordon Brown for the nation", adding that had the PM lost the vote he "would be on his way out".[/quote]
And that demonstrates the morality of our MPs in a nutshell!
Labour back bencher Austin Mitchell admitted he had intended to vote against the UK Government but changed his mind to "save Gordon Brown for the nation", adding that had the PM lost the vote he "would be on his way out".
And that demonstrates the morality of our MPs in a nutshell!
Posted by: actvj, glasgow on 9:22am Thu 12 Jun 08
[bold]Lord Wallace of Tankerness, the ex-LibDem MP and former Deputy First Minister, told The Herald: "There's been no substantial case to justify what the PM is wanting."[/bold]
Is he taliking about Blair's drive to invade Iraq or is he talking about GB's 42 days at Butlins. Strange how in a 'Democracy' it's what the prime minister wants not what the people want. Democracy schmocracey a big fat illussion to keep us in front of our plasmas and out of politics. A nation of brain dead moaning whingers who can't see past ther next purchase from the electrical goods section. Who gives a toss whether someone 42 days of their life on a hunch or worse a perverse cops sense of vindictiveness. 42 days tells you how good our services are at doing their job. If you can't nail someone in 28 days then 42 days sounds like you need time to make something up. Strangely enough the Thatcher government never gave terrorists 42 days, particularly in the Malta incident. Now what was it they got again?
Lord Wallace of Tankerness, the ex-LibDem MP and former Deputy First Minister, told The Herald: "There's been no substantial case to justify what the PM is wanting."
Is he taliking about Blair's drive to invade Iraq or is he talking about GB's 42 days at Butlins. Strange how in a 'Democracy' it's what the prime minister wants not what the people want. Democracy schmocracey a big fat illussion to keep us in front of our plasmas and out of politics. A nation of brain dead moaning whingers who can't see past ther next purchase from the electrical goods section. Who gives a toss whether someone 42 days of their life on a hunch or worse a perverse cops sense of vindictiveness. 42 days tells you how good our services are at doing their job. If you can't nail someone in 28 days then 42 days sounds like you need time to make something up. Strangely enough the Thatcher government never gave terrorists 42 days, particularly in the Malta incident. Now what was it they got again?
Posted by: CRAGman, Edinburgh on 9:24am Thu 12 Jun 08
The people triumphant, the legal bods democratically overruled. A good result for the man in the street. Let's get taken a bit more notice of in future.
The people triumphant, the legal bods democratically overruled. A good result for the man in the street. Let's get taken a bit more notice of in future.
Posted by: DAVE, Glasgow on 9:28am Thu 12 Jun 08
[quote]Nine votes condemn Britons to terror and humiliation!!!
Ah'm just gled Ah'm no a Brit and that mah country can get the hell oot ae the UK.[/quote]
Scunnert,
Alex Salmond has pledged to open the doors to Scotland to all asylum seekers and immigrants.
Nine votes condemn Britons to terror and humiliation!!!
Ah'm just gled Ah'm no a Brit and that mah country can get the hell oot ae the UK.
Scunnert,
Alex Salmond has pledged to open the doors to Scotland to all asylum seekers and immigrants.
Posted by: highlander45, Highlands on 9:35am Thu 12 Jun 08
Broon bought off the the loyal orange lodge in ulster where does that leave labours huge catholic vote???
comments please...
Broon bought off the the loyal orange lodge in ulster where does that leave labours huge catholic vote???
comments please...
Posted by: K Hufir, Stirling on 9:46am Thu 12 Jun 08
"This was a hard-fought victory won, recent polls made clear, with overwhelming public support. Our YouGov poll yesterday showed that 69 per cent of voters favoured the extension from 28 days "in exceptional circumstances"." - The Telegraph
Looks like a victory for democracy from where I'm standing!
"This was a hard-fought victory won, recent polls made clear, with overwhelming public support. Our YouGov poll yesterday showed that 69 per cent of voters favoured the extension from 28 days "in exceptional circumstances"." - The Telegraph
Looks like a victory for democracy from where I'm standing!
Posted by: Rab Jones, Glasgow on 9:52am Thu 12 Jun 08
[quote][bold]Los Angeles[/bold] wrote:
A shameful day for so-called democratic politicians.[/quote] A shameful day in your opinion.
Isn't that what democracy is about. Voting on subjects. Some you agree with, some you don't. Or do you welcome Communism to the UK?
Los Angeles wrote:
A shameful day for so-called democratic politicians.
A shameful day in your opinion.
Isn't that what democracy is about. Voting on subjects. Some you agree with, some you don't. Or do you welcome Communism to the UK?
Posted by: Alex Porter on 10:15am Thu 12 Jun 08
K Hufir,
The last opinion poll gave a majority to independence. Does this mean we should be independent now without a referendum? A poll would give a majority for hanging and flogging. Is that now law? Don't be so stupid.
These are the kind of liberties that, when lost, see countries slide into dictatorship. Anf the idiots who backed it will be screaming for protection when the police turn up to take them away - and no-one will be able to help.
This law is dusgusting, it will be stopped in the lords or judicially stopped or by the EU. It must be stopped as does the Gordon Brownshirts' march to fascism.
K Hufir,
The last opinion poll gave a majority to independence. Does this mean we should be independent now without a referendum? A poll would give a majority for hanging and flogging. Is that now law? Don't be so stupid.
These are the kind of liberties that, when lost, see countries slide into dictatorship. Anf the idiots who backed it will be screaming for protection when the police turn up to take them away - and no-one will be able to help.
This law is dusgusting, it will be stopped in the lords or judicially stopped or by the EU. It must be stopped as does the Gordon Brownshirts' march to fascism.
Posted by: Spoonsy, Glasgow on 10:27am Thu 12 Jun 08
[quote]These are the kind of liberties that, when lost, see countries slide into dictatorship. Anf the idiots who backed it will be screaming for protection when the police turn up to take them away - and no-one will be able to help.[/quote]
Steady on, old boy.
It's six weeks, not six years - and will only be used in extreme circumstances, and definitly only be used when the police have proper grounds to suspect.
They're hardly going to be turning up at your door, saying 'I don't like the look of you' and dragging you off.
Sorry, but all your scaremongering 'slide into fascism' claptrap is just poorly written science-fiction.
Get too much sun in Madrid, did you?
These are the kind of liberties that, when lost, see countries slide into dictatorship. Anf the idiots who backed it will be screaming for protection when the police turn up to take them away - and no-one will be able to help.
Steady on, old boy.
It's six weeks, not six years - and will only be used in extreme circumstances, and definitly only be used when the police have proper grounds to suspect.
They're hardly going to be turning up at your door, saying 'I don't like the look of you' and dragging you off.
Sorry, but all your scaremongering 'slide into fascism' claptrap is just poorly written science-fiction.
Get too much sun in Madrid, did you?
Posted by: Los Angeles, Edinburgh on 10:39am Thu 12 Jun 08