Bid to ban Lockerbie lawyers in secrets hearing
 |
| WRECKAGE: Pan Am flight 103 blew up over Lockerbie almost 20 years ago, in December 1988. Picture: Herald archive |
Prosecutors will next week attempt to throw an unprecedented veil of secrecy over the appeal of the Lockerbie bomber.
The Crown Office will ask judges to bypass the defence team of Abdelbaset Ali Mohmed al Megrahi and appoint special security-vetted advocates to represent him in a court hearing to decide whether a previously confidential document should be made public.
If the bid for a closed-door session is successful, it would be the first time in Scotland that such a step has been taken in a criminal case.
However, the tactic will fuel suspicions that the Crown is going to unusual lengths to preserve the UK's current diplomatic relations with other nations.
The paperwork, which originated in an unknown foreign country, is thought to contain vital information about the electronic timer which detonated the bomb that killed 270 people in the skies over Lockerbie.
It is not known if political pressure has been exercised directly on the Crown, but there have been previous instances in the Megrahi case where Britain's changed attitudes to foreign states since 1988 have played a key role in the legal process.
Foreign Secretary David Miliband has already said the document should remain confidential.
It was uncovered during the three-year investigation of the Scottish Criminal Cases Review Commission, which resulted in the case being referred back to the courts for a new appeal last summer. The commission concluded the failure during the original trial to disclose the document could constitute a miscarriage of justice. Although the Crown allowed the commission to see the material, it has refused to disclose it to Megrahi's defence team.
The Crown's latest move is expected to anger further his lawyers, who believe the failure to disclose the document calls into question the ultimate right to a fair appeal.
The request will be made on Tuesday at the Court of Criminal Appeal when the decision on whether to grant the defence access to the document is to be debated.
The Crown is expected to ask for the hearing to be held behind closed doors in the absence of the defence, who would be represented by special advocates. Public Interest Immunity hearings of this kind in criminal cases have previously been held only south of the border, where there is a statutory system in place, and a list of special advocates.
Megrahi's defence team has made it clear that it needs to see the document in order to proceed with the appeal, and has accused the UK Government of "interference" in the appeal.
If the prosecution denies access to the paper, Megrahi's lawyers are expected to argue that the conviction should be quashed because, without it, their client's right to a fair trial would be breached.
One legal expert said: "This
is entirely unprecedented in
Scotland."
A spokesman for the Crown Office said the court hearing is to be from from May 27 to 29 in Edinburgh. "It is not possible to provide further comment," he said.
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Posted by: Alkie, NYC on 2:55am Thu 22 May 08
Since he killed some Americans, when you're done with him, I hope the USA extradites him. He won't be living it up in a private, luxury cell like you reward criminals in your nation.
Since he killed some Americans, when you're done with him, I hope the USA extradites him. He won't be living it up in a private, luxury cell like you reward criminals in your nation.
Posted by: Scunnert, Travelling in Nihlon on 3:10am Thu 22 May 08
This attempt by Westmin to impose an English system of "justice" on Scotland is outrageous. It smells of Stalin era secret kangaroo courts and should not be tolerated in our nation. Elish Angiolini get off your butt and get this sorted. Kenny - time to show us you're really in charge.
This attempt by Westmin to impose an English system of "justice" on Scotland is outrageous. It smells of Stalin era secret kangaroo courts and should not be tolerated in our nation. Elish Angiolini get off your butt and get this sorted. Kenny - time to show us you're really in charge.
Posted by: wisnaeme, wisnae there on 3:19am Thu 22 May 08
Yet again Westminster lobbyists for "not in the public interest" prostitute themselves in defence of their special interests.
and they wonder why they are held in such low esteem by folk when their contempt. for justice and the principles of justice are so blatently abused by their manipulative contortions of control freakery.
... and from other places, other countries and in other folk;s interests as well to add insult to injury.
.
Yet again Westminster lobbyists for "not in the public interest" prostitute themselves in defence of their special interests.
and they wonder why they are held in such low esteem by folk when their contempt. for justice and the principles of justice are so blatently abused by their manipulative contortions of control freakery.
... and from other places, other countries and in other folk;s interests as well to add insult to injury.
.
Posted by: Sierra Foothills Scot, California on 4:22am Thu 22 May 08
I have believed ever since the verdict that Megrahi was stitched up and the conviction was a blot on Scottish justice. This sentence in the article reinforces my feeling: “The Crown Office will ask judges to bypass the defence team of Abdelbaset Ali Mohmed al Megrahi and appoint special security-vetted advocates to represent him in a court hearing to decide whether a previously confidential document should be made public.” What judges will the Crown office ask? Probably English ones who have no jurisdiction.
I have believed ever since the verdict that Megrahi was stitched up and the conviction was a blot on Scottish justice. This sentence in the article reinforces my feeling: “The Crown Office will ask judges to bypass the defence team of Abdelbaset Ali Mohmed al Megrahi and appoint special security-vetted advocates to represent him in a court hearing to decide whether a previously confidential document should be made public.” What judges will the Crown office ask? Probably English ones who have no jurisdiction.
Posted by: Sierra Foothills Scot, California on 4:26am Thu 22 May 08
Alkie, NYC - As usuual you are showing your ignorance.
Even the American spokesman for the American victims' families doesn't believe Megrahi did it.
Alkie, NYC - As usuual you are showing your ignorance.
Even the American spokesman for the American victims' families doesn't believe Megrahi did it.
Posted by: wisnaeme, wisnae there on 5:00am Thu 22 May 08
Sierra Foothills Scot wrote:
[quote]
What judges will the Crown Office ask? Probably English ones who have no jurisdiction.
[/quote]
Naw, they've plenty of obliging, tame, subservient Scottish ones on tap.
and as for " stitchup", refer to sentence above.
.
Sierra Foothills Scot wrote:
What judges will the Crown Office ask? Probably English ones who have no jurisdiction.
Naw, they've plenty of obliging, tame, subservient Scottish ones on tap.
and as for " stitchup", refer to sentence above.
.
Posted by: Edwin & Mahnaz Bollier, MEBO, Zurich / Switzerland on 5:05am Thu 22 May 08
FOR A FAIR END IN THE LOCKERBIE-AFFAIR
MEBO Proposal for a partial disclosure of the document "under national security"
In order that the content of the document "under national security" and the country involved are not publicly disclosed there is the possibility that
1 member of the SCCRC and 2 personalities either/or of the EU or the UNO
would have access to view this important document under the condition of not making the country involved and the content of the document public.
But the content of the document "under national security" could be used for the benefit of Abdelbaset al Megrahi's appeal proceedings.
In the sense of the Arab League.
More news about the biggest fraud in the history of Scotland on our website: www.lockerbie.ch
FOR A FAIR END IN THE LOCKERBIE-AFFAIR
MEBO Proposal for a partial disclosure of the document "under national security"
In order that the content of the document "under national security" and the country involved are not publicly disclosed there is the possibility that
1 member of the SCCRC and 2 personalities either/or of the EU or the UNO
would have access to view this important document under the condition of not making the country involved and the content of the document public.
But the content of the document "under national security" could be used for the benefit of Abdelbaset al Megrahi's appeal proceedings.
In the sense of the Arab League.
More news about the biggest fraud in the history of Scotland on our website: www.lockerbie.ch
Posted by: Free Thinker, North Lanarkshire on 5:44am Thu 22 May 08
Lockerbie bombing: Another inside job by the CIA.
Lockerbie bombing: Another inside job by the CIA.
Posted by: EuroMac, Isolated in Europe on 6:53am Thu 22 May 08
Alkie
Is that your name, or what you are known as?
Alkie
Is that your name, or what you are known as?
Posted by: Guga, Rockall on 7:11am Thu 22 May 08
This sounds like another stitch-up, like the original trial itself. Of course, we have a Stalinist, totalitarian control freak government in Westminster, so I suppose we should have expected something like this. The same applies to their trying to impose an English system on Scotland.
This sounds like another stitch-up, like the original trial itself. Of course, we have a Stalinist, totalitarian control freak government in Westminster, so I suppose we should have expected something like this. The same applies to their trying to impose an English system on Scotland.
Posted by: wxalexander, canada on 7:21am Thu 22 May 08
How about making it the law that prosecutors who hid evidence of innocence from the defence teams in Scottish trials lose all family assets. That way this notch on the gun belt attitude by Scottish prosecutors would be replaced by justice towards the accused.
How about making it the law that prosecutors who hid evidence of innocence from the defence teams in Scottish trials lose all family assets. That way this notch on the gun belt attitude by Scottish prosecutors would be replaced by justice towards the accused.
Posted by: wxalexander, canada on 7:22am Thu 22 May 08
How about making it the law that prosecutors who hid evidence of innocence from the defence teams in Scottish trials lose all family assets. That way this notch on the gun belt attitude by Scottish prosecutors would be replaced by justice towards the accused.
How about making it the law that prosecutors who hid evidence of innocence from the defence teams in Scottish trials lose all family assets. That way this notch on the gun belt attitude by Scottish prosecutors would be replaced by justice towards the accused.
Posted by: Meep, Shawlands on 7:31am Thu 22 May 08
This is the Spooks at Vauxhall Bridge (MI6) interfereing in Scottish legal affairs. The reason for this is because of the material showing that the incompetent CIA actually supplied the parts for the bomb which blew up the plane. Simple as that. and the idea that Scottish legal precedent can be ursurped and corrupted for political issues at Westminster (& the industrrial Satanists in Washington DC /Virginia Maine) will encourage Scottish suspicion towards what MI% & MI6 are even doing in Scotland. People here have long memories and still hold a chip in the shoulder over the murder of Scottish Nationalist Willie Macrae by the UK security services. So if they keeping pushing this legal interference then it will be bad publicity and will open "old wounds".
This is the Spooks at Vauxhall Bridge (MI6) interfereing in Scottish legal affairs. The reason for this is because of the material showing that the incompetent CIA actually supplied the parts for the bomb which blew up the plane. Simple as that. and the idea that Scottish legal precedent can be ursurped and corrupted for political issues at Westminster (& the industrrial Satanists in Washington DC /Virginia Maine) will encourage Scottish suspicion towards what MI% & MI6 are even doing in Scotland. People here have long memories and still hold a chip in the shoulder over the murder of Scottish Nationalist Willie Macrae by the UK security services. So if they keeping pushing this legal interference then it will be bad publicity and will open "old wounds".
Posted by: wisnaeme, wisnae there on 7:39am Thu 22 May 08
So what else is "going down" by the administrators of 'animal farm'?
BBC News
[quote]
[bold]
Court cases are being dropped because prosecutors are not keeping paperwork up to date, according to a report by HM Crown Prosecution Service Inspectorate.
It said the Crown Prosecution Service did not properly maintain more than a third of of files in Crown Court cases.
Missing Evidence.
" It appears that evidence has been overlooked."
HMCPSI chief inspector Stephen Wooler said;
"Information and documents must be accessible to those requiring them - especially at court".
[/bold]
[/quote]
Aye, about right.
[quote]
[bold]
A CPS spokeswoman said the CPS, " welcome this report because it will help us improve our performance".
[/bold]
[/quote]
[bold]
... Aye Right.
[/bold] .
So what else is "going down" by the administrators of 'animal farm'?
BBC News
Court cases are being dropped because prosecutors are not keeping paperwork up to date, according to a report by HM Crown Prosecution Service Inspectorate.
It said the Crown Prosecution Service did not properly maintain more than a third of of files in Crown Court cases.
Missing Evidence.
" It appears that evidence has been overlooked."
HMCPSI chief inspector Stephen Wooler said;
"Information and documents must be accessible to those requiring them - especially at court".
Aye, about right.
A CPS spokeswoman said the CPS, " welcome this report because it will help us improve our performance".
... Aye Right.
.
Posted by: Rab The Man, Was My Uncle on 7:47am Thu 22 May 08
[quote][bold]Alkie[/bold] wrote:
Since he killed some Americans, when you're done with him, I hope the USA extradites him. He won't be living it up in a private, luxury cell like you reward criminals in your nation.[/quote] ALKIE
Oh Aye...and we REALLY need lessons in handing out justice from you cretinous barstewards.
Bog off and get your own house in order...and close Guntanamo,.........N
OW.
Alkie wrote:
Since he killed some Americans, when you're done with him, I hope the USA extradites him. He won't be living it up in a private, luxury cell like you reward criminals in your nation.
ALKIE
Oh Aye...and we REALLY need lessons in handing out justice from you cretinous barstewards.
Bog off and get your own house in order...and close Guntanamo,.........N
OW.
Posted by: steg, Ayrshire on 8:09am Thu 22 May 08
Alkie, like I said in the other thread - Muppet!
Alkie, like I said in the other thread - Muppet!
Posted by: McSomeone, Scotland on 8:15am Thu 22 May 08
[quote][bold]Alkie[/bold] wrote:
Since he killed some Americans, when you're done with him, I hope the USA extradites him. He won't be living it up in a private, luxury cell like you reward criminals in your nation.[/quote] Oh aye, America a beacon of justice and liberty to the world. Put your own house in order first because the stench of corruption and incompetence that comes from your own legal system is making the rest of the world gag!
If our courts allow this then we are in dead serious trouble and if the crown persists then it should immediately be taken to the ECHR because this does not serve justice but the political wishes of central government! Holyrood should tell Parliament that it isn't some third world country that can be bullied by outdated imperial bullying.
Alkie wrote:
Since he killed some Americans, when you're done with him, I hope the USA extradites him. He won't be living it up in a private, luxury cell like you reward criminals in your nation.
Oh aye, America a beacon of justice and liberty to the world. Put your own house in order first because the stench of corruption and incompetence that comes from your own legal system is making the rest of the world gag!
If our courts allow this then we are in dead serious trouble and if the crown persists then it should immediately be taken to the ECHR because this does not serve justice but the political wishes of central government! Holyrood should tell Parliament that it isn't some third world country that can be bullied by outdated imperial bullying.
Posted by: Politically-incorrec
t Man, Glasgow on 8:28am Thu 22 May 08
Democracy, even a representative democracy, is supposed to represent the best interests of the people who elect it.
How can there ever be a situation where it is in the best interests of the people that information is withheld from the electorate by the government which by definition is supposed to serve the people not the reverse.
We don’t live in a democracy we live in an oligarchy and this is yet another example of the sham we live under.
If it is CIA or Saudi involvement, it is irrelevant; we the Nation must be allowed access to this and all other information by right. The stark alternative is to accept that we the electorate are irrelevant and have no real control over our own country and its affairs and are simply chatels of a ruling elite.
Democracy, even a representative democracy, is supposed to represent the best interests of the people who elect it.
How can there ever be a situation where it is in the best interests of the people that information is withheld from the electorate by the government which by definition is supposed to serve the people not the reverse.
We don’t live in a democracy we live in an oligarchy and this is yet another example of the sham we live under.
If it is CIA or Saudi involvement, it is irrelevant; we the Nation must be allowed access to this and all other information by right. The stark alternative is to accept that we the electorate are irrelevant and have no real control over our own country and its affairs and are simply chatels of a ruling elite.
Posted by: heavy, Glasgow on 8:34am Thu 22 May 08
When you get JUDGES not JURIES deciding on such serious cases you will NEVER get justice.The Lockerbie trial was a kangaroo court nothing less.
Family courts in Scotland are awash with thousands of families made homeless and penniless thanks to NON jury secret court hearings.
The English crown and its lackeys long overdue being thrown out of Scotland along with ALL the lawyers masquerading as MSP's at the Scottish parliament including MacAskill a law society PLANT.
Those who make laws should not be the enforcers of those laws.A licence to print the massive legal bills , the victims of the system have paid heavily for while being made homeless and penniless
by legal parasites.
Join the growing resistance movement against corruption and
tyranny.
LJPR LEGAL JUDICIAL POLITICAL REFORMERS
Masonic judges OUT Juries IN
When you get JUDGES not JURIES deciding on such serious cases you will NEVER get justice.The Lockerbie trial was a kangaroo court nothing less.
Family courts in Scotland are awash with thousands of families made homeless and penniless thanks to NON jury secret court hearings.
The English crown and its lackeys long overdue being thrown out of Scotland along with ALL the lawyers masquerading as MSP's at the Scottish parliament including MacAskill a law society PLANT.
Those who make laws should not be the enforcers of those laws.A licence to print the massive legal bills , the victims of the system have paid heavily for while being made homeless and penniless
by legal parasites.
Join the growing resistance movement against corruption and
tyranny.
LJPR LEGAL JUDICIAL POLITICAL REFORMERS
Masonic judges OUT Juries IN
Posted by: bobwmac, New Mexico/Stirlingshire on 8:46am Thu 22 May 08
We have no friends, we have no enemies; only our interests are permanent. This constant changing by the establishment of what is truth is chillingly Orwellian.
We have no friends, we have no enemies; only our interests are permanent. This constant changing by the establishment of what is truth is chillingly Orwellian.
Posted by: sam, greenock on 8:50am Thu 22 May 08
[quote][bold]heavy[/bold] wrote:
When you get JUDGES not JURIES deciding on such serious cases you will NEVER get justice.The Lockerbie trial was a kangaroo court nothing less. Family courts in Scotland are awash with thousands of families made homeless and penniless thanks to NON jury secret court hearings. The English crown and its lackeys long overdue being thrown out of Scotland along with ALL the lawyers masquerading as MSP's at the Scottish parliament including MacAskill a law society PLANT. Those who make laws should not be the enforcers of those laws.A licence to print the massive legal bills , the victims of the system have paid heavily for while being made homeless and penniless by legal parasites. Join the growing resistance movement against corruption and tyranny. LJPR LEGAL JUDICIAL POLITICAL REFORMERS Masonic judges OUT Juries IN [/quote] Stonecutter Judges IN
Paranoid Conspiracy Theorists OUT
heavy wrote:
When you get JUDGES not JURIES deciding on such serious cases you will NEVER get justice.The Lockerbie trial was a kangaroo court nothing less. Family courts in Scotland are awash with thousands of families made homeless and penniless thanks to NON jury secret court hearings. The English crown and its lackeys long overdue being thrown out of Scotland along with ALL the lawyers masquerading as MSP's at the Scottish parliament including MacAskill a law society PLANT. Those who make laws should not be the enforcers of those laws.A licence to print the massive legal bills , the victims of the system have paid heavily for while being made homeless and penniless by legal parasites. Join the growing resistance movement against corruption and tyranny. LJPR LEGAL JUDICIAL POLITICAL REFORMERS Masonic judges OUT Juries IN
Stonecutter Judges IN
Paranoid Conspiracy Theorists OUT
Posted by: Robert Christie on 9:31am Thu 22 May 08
This is a matter ONLY for the Scottish judicial system. So where precisely does the British Foreign Secretary have ANY locus?
This all smacks of the Broon Totalitarian State that Liebour has created.
This is a matter ONLY for the Scottish judicial system. So where precisely does the British Foreign Secretary have ANY locus?
This all smacks of the Broon Totalitarian State that Liebour has created.
Posted by: pete, Bearsden on 10:12am Thu 22 May 08
Does anyone actually believe this guy did it?
Does anyone actually believe this guy did it?
Posted by: Rob O, UK on 10:17am Thu 22 May 08
We should not get caught up in Scotand V england thing here. It is a simple case of right and wrong. A defendant is entitled to all the evidence to fight his case and not be a scapegoat for others. If this is a simple case of terrorism certain interested parties seem to be going to extraordinary lengths to muddy the waters. Why?? I think everyone understands that world politics have moved on since the 1980's and would understand if it transpired that the offending timer originated from a friend in the Middle East unless of course it transpires that the timer originated in the US of A !!!!!
We should not get caught up in Scotand V england thing here. It is a simple case of right and wrong. A defendant is entitled to all the evidence to fight his case and not be a scapegoat for others. If this is a simple case of terrorism certain interested parties seem to be going to extraordinary lengths to muddy the waters. Why?? I think everyone understands that world politics have moved on since the 1980's and would understand if it transpired that the offending timer originated from a friend in the Middle East unless of course it transpires that the timer originated in the US of A !!!!!
Posted by: Scott, Inverness on 10:23am Thu 22 May 08
LONDON PICKING ANOTHER FIGHT WITH THE SNP
LONDON PICKING ANOTHER FIGHT WITH THE SNP
Posted by: Shirley Hodge, Glasgow on 11:21am Thu 22 May 08
We shouldn't complain after all the government persons are only trying to preserve our access to the zillions of gallons of terriorist held (oops I mean middle-eastern) oil that we need to keep polluting our air and keep our SUV's running. If we tell on those guys they will not sell us their oil and then where would we be. So there was a bit of collateral damage, happens all the time. Justice you say, get real we cannot afford that luxury these days.
We shouldn't complain after all the government persons are only trying to preserve our access to the zillions of gallons of terriorist held (oops I mean middle-eastern) oil that we need to keep polluting our air and keep our SUV's running. If we tell on those guys they will not sell us their oil and then where would we be. So there was a bit of collateral damage, happens all the time. Justice you say, get real we cannot afford that luxury these days.
Posted by: britfree, camelon on 11:44am Thu 22 May 08
typical of the axis of evil representedby the amerikkkan gang that terrorises the world . the brit-state is its **** . the zionist are its fence.
typical of the axis of evil representedby the amerikkkan gang that terrorises the world . the brit-state is its **** . the zionist are its fence.
Posted by: britfree, camelon on 11:46am Thu 22 May 08
be-atch then
Posted by: Graham, Glasgow on 11:48am Thu 22 May 08
One thing for sure is the judiciary and lawyers have milked this almost dry. Meanwhile Britain and the US have done a deal with the Colonel. New holiday resorts etc etc. All pals again. We should just let the guy out of the nick and let bygones be bygones. We will never know the truth. So why waste anymore taxpayers money.[bold]bold[/bold]
One thing for sure is the judiciary and lawyers have milked this almost dry. Meanwhile Britain and the US have done a deal with the Colonel. New holiday resorts etc etc. All pals again. We should just let the guy out of the nick and let bygones be bygones. We will never know the truth. So why waste anymore taxpayers money.
Posted by: Mike MacKinnon on 12:06pm Thu 22 May 08
pete, only half educated septics believe he did it. Anyone with half a brain can see he was stitched up!
pete, only half educated septics believe he did it. Anyone with half a brain can see he was stitched up!
Posted by: Politically-incorrec
t Man, Glasgow on 12:25pm Thu 22 May 08
There is a very important principle at stake here, it is about who controls our own country, us (the electorate) or them.
It is as simple and uncomplicated as that.
Who is preventing the information being released? It is not us the people, who have a right to know what is done in our name, so who is it?
This is about basic democracy.
There is a very important principle at stake here, it is about who controls our own country, us (the electorate) or them.
It is as simple and uncomplicated as that.
Who is preventing the information being released? It is not us the people, who have a right to know what is done in our name, so who is it?
This is about basic democracy.
Posted by: redc;liffe62, brisbane on hols on 12:53pm Thu 22 May 08
i used to have some decent contacts but have no knowledge on the lockerbie case.
it is reasonable to assume the parts relate to a friendly government, be it u.s. or middle eastern. it does not mean that the said country was involved, merely that the parts originated there.
if a key aspect of evidence is withheld without a full disclosure to the defence team then the case is effectively a mistrial.
blair wanted him out in a twilight deal of his tenure, so we can be sure it is a country he deemed important enough to do a sneaky on. maybe the one that has bae issues up to its neck, the non democratic kingom of saudi, but it is frustrating not to be told and to be treated as fools.
i used to have some decent contacts but have no knowledge on the lockerbie case.
it is reasonable to assume the parts relate to a friendly government, be it u.s. or middle eastern. it does not mean that the said country was involved, merely that the parts originated there.
if a key aspect of evidence is withheld without a full disclosure to the defence team then the case is effectively a mistrial.
blair wanted him out in a twilight deal of his tenure, so we can be sure it is a country he deemed important enough to do a sneaky on. maybe the one that has bae issues up to its neck, the non democratic kingom of saudi, but it is frustrating not to be told and to be treated as fools.
Posted by: JBlackley, Florida on 1:05pm Thu 22 May 08
Man, the desktop PC this comments website runs on is slow today!
Anyway. I see a lot of childish twaddle being written above. Every country - every country in the world - has its state secrets and, yes, they are controlled by the people who govern the country (and, no, they're not freely available to "we the people" or "the electorate".)
Granted, this man seems to have suffered an unfair trial because of Britain's state secrets and it'll be hard to find a way to both preserve the secret and be seen to give him a fair trial. I don't know how to do that but appointing insiders to represent the man temporarily will only aggravate the general sense of injustice.
Man, the desktop PC this comments website runs on is slow today!
Anyway. I see a lot of childish twaddle being written above. Every country - every country in the world - has its state secrets and, yes, they are controlled by the people who govern the country (and, no, they're not freely available to "we the people" or "the electorate".)
Granted, this man seems to have suffered an unfair trial because of Britain's state secrets and it'll be hard to find a way to both preserve the secret and be seen to give him a fair trial. I don't know how to do that but appointing insiders to represent the man temporarily will only aggravate the general sense of injustice.
Posted by: Cuthulan, approx.12,000 miles from Earths core on 1:22pm Thu 22 May 08
pete, Bearsden on 10:12am today
"Does anyone actually believe this guy did it?"
Of course not . Not even the prosecution believes he's guilty ,he's a victim of politics and politions. But not as much as the people who died that day in Lockerbie ,and they deserve justice.
I think we all want to know who really did it, that's why they will not release the documents .Evidence PLANTED by the CIA and the Scottish police giving FALSE statements . It all looks like a "conspiracy to defraud"
http://en.wikipedia.
org/wiki/Conspiracy_
to_defraud#Conspirac
y_to_defraud
"Section 1(1) of the Criminal Law Act 1977 provides:
"...if a person agrees with any other person or persons that a course of conduct shall be pursued which, if the agreement is carried out in accordance with their intentions, either -
(a) will necessarily amount to or involve the commission of any offence or offences by one or more of the parties to the agreement, or
(b) would do so but for the existence of facts which render the commission of the offence or any of the offences impossible, [added by S.5 Criminal Attempts Act 1981]
he is guilty of conspiracy to commit the offence or offences in question."
"
or "false flag" operation
http://en.wikipedia.
org/wiki/False_flag_
operation
CIA PLANT evidence
http://i-p-o.org/mai
lonsunday-23nov03.ht
m
Police Falsify statements
http://scotlandonsun
day.scotsman.com/Vie
wArticle.aspx?articl
eid=2818732
Unfortunately this story has been removed .But here is a copy of it.
http://www.informati
onclearinghouse.info
/article10012.htm
Remember
There is no justice , there's just us
pete, Bearsden on 10:12am today
"Does anyone actually believe this guy did it?"
Of course not . Not even the prosecution believes he's guilty ,he's a victim of politics and politions. But not as much as the people who died that day in Lockerbie ,and they deserve justice.
I think we all want to know who really did it, that's why they will not release the documents .Evidence PLANTED by the CIA and the Scottish police giving FALSE statements . It all looks like a "conspiracy to defraud"
http://en.wikipedia.
org/wiki/Conspiracy_
to_defraud#Conspirac
y_to_defraud
"Section 1(1) of the Criminal Law Act 1977 provides:
"...if a person agrees with any other person or persons that a course of conduct shall be pursued which, if the agreement is carried out in accordance with their intentions, either -
(a) will necessarily amount to or involve the commission of any offence or offences by one or more of the parties to the agreement, or
(b) would do so but for the existence of facts which render the commission of the offence or any of the offences impossible,
he is guilty of conspiracy to commit the offence or offences in question."
"
or "false flag" operation
http://en.wikipedia.
org/wiki/False_flag_
operation
CIA PLANT evidence
http://i-p-o.org/mai
lonsunday-23nov03.ht
m
Police Falsify statements
http://scotlandonsun
day.scotsman.com/Vie
wArticle.aspx?articl
eid=2818732
Unfortunately this story has been removed .But here is a copy of it.
http://www.informati
onclearinghouse.info
/article10012.htm
Remember
There is no justice , there's just us
Posted by: Politically-incorrec
t Man, Glasgow on 2:35pm Thu 22 May 08
[quote][bold]JBlackley[/bold] wrote:
Man, the desktop PC this comments website runs on is slow today!
Anyway. I see a lot of childish twaddle being written above. Every country - every country in the world - has its state secrets and, yes, they are controlled by the people who govern the country (and, no, they're not freely available to "we the people" or "the electorate".)
Granted, this man seems to have suffered an unfair trial because of Britain's state secrets and it'll be hard to find a way to both preserve the secret and be seen to give him a fair trial. I don't know how to do that but appointing insiders to represent the man temporarily will only aggravate the general sense of injustice.[/quote] Just because other countries suppress what they tell the people does not justify it or legitimise it.
Why should they have secrets, are you not smart enough or interested enough to be able to study the facts and come to your own conclusions?
Are you happy that you are told only what the government of the day wants you to know?
That is not democracy that is Fascism - "we were only obeying orders"
JBlackley wrote:
Man, the desktop PC this comments website runs on is slow today!
Anyway. I see a lot of childish twaddle being written above. Every country - every country in the world - has its state secrets and, yes, they are controlled by the people who govern the country (and, no, they're not freely available to "we the people" or "the electorate".)
Granted, this man seems to have suffered an unfair trial because of Britain's state secrets and it'll be hard to find a way to both preserve the secret and be seen to give him a fair trial. I don't know how to do that but appointing insiders to represent the man temporarily will only aggravate the general sense of injustice.
Just because other countries suppress what they tell the people does not justify it or legitimise it.
Why should they have secrets, are you not smart enough or interested enough to be able to study the facts and come to your own conclusions?
Are you happy that you are told only what the government of the day wants you to know?
That is not democracy that is Fascism - "we were only obeying orders"
Posted by: JBlackley, Florida on 2:43pm Thu 22 May 08
PiM, thank you for responding to my comment.
"Just because other countries.........et
c.". No, PiM, not "other countries" - all countries have state secrets. Yours, theirs, everyone's.
As to "why?", I couldn't begin to explain in the space available here and, no I'm not happy to accept only what the government wants me to know.
None of that appeared in my comment and so I'm somewhat at a loss to understand what you're talking about.
PiM, thank you for responding to my comment.
"Just because other countries.........et
c.". No, PiM, not "other countries" - all countries have state secrets. Yours, theirs, everyone's.
As to "why?", I couldn't begin to explain in the space available here and, no I'm not happy to accept only what the government wants me to know.
None of that appeared in my comment and so I'm somewhat at a loss to understand what you're talking about.
Posted by: Politically-incorrec
t Man, Glasgow on 3:03pm Thu 22 May 08
Hi JBlakley
Sorry if I went off at half-****!
My point is that I think we have a pretend democracy.
I'm afraid I am a Bildeberg conspirator and see the hand of "old money" behind everything. Our government is simply a way of keeping the general population docile and productive.
In my world there would be no "state secrets" as there would be no need for them. I see no reason why information should be with-held from me to cover up something done on my behalf but of which I am completely unaware.
For government to suggest that I would not understand if I was allowed access to the information is an insult.
If there is nothing to be ashamed of there is nothing to hide.
Hi JBlakley
Sorry if I went off at half-****!
My point is that I think we have a pretend democracy.
I'm afraid I am a Bildeberg conspirator and see the hand of "old money" behind everything. Our government is simply a way of keeping the general population docile and productive.
In my world there would be no "state secrets" as there would be no need for them. I see no reason why information should be with-held from me to cover up something done on my behalf but of which I am completely unaware.
For government to suggest that I would not understand if I was allowed access to the information is an insult.
If there is nothing to be ashamed of there is nothing to hide.
Posted by: JBlackley, Florida on 3:15pm Thu 22 May 08
Politically-incorrec
t Man, thanks again for the response.
Generally I separate 'state secrets' from 'hidden information' - state secrets being things that one government wants to keep secret from other governments and hidden information being things that the government wants to keep secret from its citizens.
I wish you well in your quest for the kind of world most of us would like to inhabit.
Politically-incorrec
t Man, thanks again for the response.
Generally I separate 'state secrets' from 'hidden information' - state secrets being things that one government wants to keep secret from other governments and hidden information being things that the government wants to keep secret from its citizens.
I wish you well in your quest for the kind of world most of us would like to inhabit.
Posted by: Rab Jones, Glasgow on 4:04pm Thu 22 May 08
The Americans are the worst terrorists of the lot.
They blew the plane out of the sky to kill ONE of their targets. **** to the innocent one hundred odd who suffered.
Then the CIA were the first on the scene and tampered with evidence.I think they were angry that the plane didn't land in the sea.
The Americans are the worst terrorists of the lot.
They blew the plane out of the sky to kill ONE of their targets. **** to the innocent one hundred odd who suffered.
Then the CIA were the first on the scene and tampered with evidence.I think they were angry that the plane didn't land in the sea.
Posted by: George Laird, Glasgow on 4:44pm Thu 22 May 08
Dear All
I hope the Scottish Government rejects the attempt to gag any hearing.
If this person is innocent he should go free and if he is guilty he should continue to be locked up.
Justice has to be done and seen to be done.
This is a Scottish matter.
If Elish Angiolini tries to pull this stunt, she should be flung straight out on her arse.
Yours sincerely
George Laird
The Campaign for Human Rights at Glasgow University
Dear All
I hope the Scottish Government rejects the attempt to gag any hearing.
If this person is innocent he should go free and if he is guilty he should continue to be locked up.
Justice has to be done and seen to be done.
This is a Scottish matter.
If Elish Angiolini tries to pull this stunt, she should be flung straight out on her arse.
Yours sincerely
George Laird
The Campaign for Human Rights at Glasgow University
Posted by: Joe Miles on 4:56pm Thu 22 May 08
Al the evidence should be heard in public.
Justice has to be done and seen to be done.
Al the evidence should be heard in public.
Justice has to be done and seen to be done.
Posted by: Joe Miles on 4:57pm Thu 22 May 08
[quote][bold]Alkie[/bold] wrote:
Since he killed some Americans, when you're done with him, I hope the USA extradites him. He won't be living it up in a private, luxury cell like you reward criminals in your nation.[/quote] You need a drink .........Something stronger than alcohol.
Alkie wrote:
Since he killed some Americans, when you're done with him, I hope the USA extradites him. He won't be living it up in a private, luxury cell like you reward criminals in your nation.
You need a drink .........Something stronger than alcohol.
Posted by: Observer, Glasgow on 5:12pm Thu 22 May 08
hemlock ?
Posted by: allymax, yuk on 6:15pm Thu 22 May 08
[quote][bold]Scunnert[/bold] wrote:
This attempt by Westmin to impose an English system of "justice" on Scotland is outrageous. It smells of Stalin era secret kangaroo courts and should not be tolerated in our nation. Elish Angiolini get off your butt and get this sorted. Kenny - time to show us you're really in charge.[/quote] Scunnert buddy, it is angiolini that's trying to cover the appeal up. She was the one who said that the crown prosecutors would submit all open evidence for the function of clarity to courts, so why is she covering this up? Typical angiolini, bliarite sound-bites that sound good but no substance. This is blatant lies by angiolini. More spin deceipt and deception; Scotland's lord advocate wants to be a politician.
Scunnert wrote:
This attempt by Westmin to impose an English system of "justice" on Scotland is outrageous. It smells of Stalin era secret kangaroo courts and should not be tolerated in our nation. Elish Angiolini get off your butt and get this sorted. Kenny - time to show us you're really in charge.
Scunnert buddy, it is angiolini that's trying to cover the appeal up. She was the one who said that the crown prosecutors would submit all open evidence for the function of clarity to courts, so why is she covering this up? Typical angiolini, bliarite sound-bites that sound good but no substance. This is blatant lies by angiolini. More spin deceipt and deception; Scotland's lord advocate wants to be a politician.
Posted by: Graham, Glasgow on 6:19pm Thu 22 May 08
Rab,4:04pm. Well done Rab. Its a pity this line of enquiry was not followed! The CIA probably arranged the end of JFK. You could have mentioned this years ago and saved the taxpayer a few bob.[bold]bold[/bold]
Rab,4:04pm. Well done Rab. Its a pity this line of enquiry was not followed! The CIA probably arranged the end of JFK. You could have mentioned this years ago and saved the taxpayer a few bob.
Posted by: allymax, yuk on 6:22pm Thu 22 May 08
[quote][bold]wxalexander[/bold] wrote:
How about making it the law that prosecutors who hid evidence of innocence from the defence teams in Scottish trials lose all family assets. That way this notch on the gun belt attitude by Scottish prosecutors would be replaced by justice towards the accused.[/quote] Well said, these totalitarian criminals masquerading as important poeple, (angiolini), should have the same punishment as drug dealers! After-all they are with-holding important and vital evidence that purports to perjure the ethics of fair trial by court process. If these gits can get away with murder why can't we? I have no respect for the Scottish courts system, no respect for law officers in Scotland because of this elites system of unaccountability. No law in Scotland has no more the moral indignation than that of those who pervert it; the state prosecutors.
wxalexander wrote:
How about making it the law that prosecutors who hid evidence of innocence from the defence teams in Scottish trials lose all family assets. That way this notch on the gun belt attitude by Scottish prosecutors would be replaced by justice towards the accused.
Well said, these totalitarian criminals masquerading as important poeple, (angiolini), should have the same punishment as drug dealers! After-all they are with-holding important and vital evidence that purports to perjure the ethics of fair trial by court process. If these gits can get away with murder why can't we? I have no respect for the Scottish courts system, no respect for law officers in Scotland because of this elites system of unaccountability. No law in Scotland has no more the moral indignation than that of those who pervert it; the state prosecutors.
Posted by: JBlackley, Florida on 7:46pm Thu 22 May 08
Rab @ 4.04 - if you let me have a copy of the evidence I'll be sure to pass it along to the UN and have the swine dragged before the world court.
Oh, wait................
........
Rab @ 4.04 - if you let me have a copy of the evidence I'll be sure to pass it along to the UN and have the swine dragged before the world court.
Oh, wait................
........
Posted by: Graham, Glasgow on 8:20pm Thu 22 May 08
JBlackley,7:46pm. I thought the CIA run the UN! Or at least payed the rent and had every room bugged.[bold]bold[/bold]
JBlackley,7:46pm. I thought the CIA run the UN! Or at least payed the rent and had every room bugged.
Posted by: heavy, Glasgow on 9:19pm Thu 22 May 08
WHO CONTROLS SCOTLAND
http://www.scribd.co
m/doc/3055255/WHO-CO
NTROLS-SCOTLAND
Quote
"Perhaps the most internationally notorious trial being that of the Lockerbie bombers and the surprising IPO (International Progress Organization) report dateline Vienna, 23 August 2002:
In a statement issued today, Professor Hans Koechler, President of the International Progress Organisation, called upon the Scottish judicial authorities to undertake a fresh investigation into the bombing of the Pan Am jet over Lockerbie in 1988. Professor Koechler - who acted as international observer at the Scottish Court in the Netherlands by nomination of the Secretary-General of the United Nations - further renewed his call for an independent public inquiry into the entire Lockerbie case and the handling of the case by the Scottish and British authorities.
The revelations published in the British newspaper The Guardian (16 August 2002) and in the Sunday Herald, Glasgow (18 August 2002) about the membership of many people of the legal establishment of Scotland in the so-called Speculative Society, a group of “friends” dating back to the 18th century, that keeps membership secret - similar to Masonic traditions. According to names leaked to the media, a considerable number of the protagonists of the Lockerbie trial (from the panel of judges and from the prosecution and defense teams) supposedly belong to this group, which raises questions in regard to fairness and impartiality of the proceedings as required under Article 6 the European Human Rights Convention.
The fact that The Guardian ran a story based on the dossier claiming that the society is undermining Scottish justice forced the Scottish press to react. Monbiot’s particular reason for pressing the story was undoubtedly because many of the judges hearing the succession of cases arising from the non-payment of Skye Road Bridge tolls are members of the Spec. So was the then Minister of Transport, Lord James Douglas-Hamilton, whose decision was being challenged before the courts, as was a senior civil servant in charge of the project and, would you believe it, was the Chairman of the Skye Bridge Company which collects the tolls. No conflict of interests there then.
Some members of the Scottish legal profession are themselves taking a renewed interest in the Spec.
Join the growing resistance movement against corruption and
tyranny.
LJPR LEGAL JUDICIAL POLITICAL REFORMERS
Masonic judges OUT Juries IN
WHO CONTROLS SCOTLAND
http://www.scribd.co
m/doc/3055255/WHO-CO
NTROLS-SCOTLAND
Quote
"Perhaps the most internationally notorious trial being that of the Lockerbie bombers and the surprising IPO (International Progress Organization) report dateline Vienna, 23 August 2002:
In a statement issued today, Professor Hans Koechler, President of the International Progress Organisation, called upon the Scottish judicial authorities to undertake a fresh investigation into the bombing of the Pan Am jet over Lockerbie in 1988. Professor Koechler - who acted as international observer at the Scottish Court in the Netherlands by nomination of the Secretary-General of the United Nations - further renewed his call for an independent public inquiry into the entire Lockerbie case and the handling of the case by the Scottish and British authorities.
The revelations published in the British newspaper The Guardian (16 August 2002) and in the Sunday Herald, Glasgow (18 August 2002) about the membership of many people of the legal establishment of Scotland in the so-called Speculative Society, a group of “friends” dating back to the 18th century, that keeps membership secret - similar to Masonic traditions. According to names leaked to the media, a considerable number of the protagonists of the Lockerbie trial (from the panel of judges and from the prosecution and defense teams) supposedly belong to this group, which raises questions in regard to fairness and impartiality of the proceedings as required under Article 6 the European Human Rights Convention.
The fact that The Guardian ran a story based on the dossier claiming that the society is undermining Scottish justice forced the Scottish press to react. Monbiot’s particular reason for pressing the story was undoubtedly because many of the judges hearing the succession of cases arising from the non-payment of Skye Road Bridge tolls are members of the Spec. So was the then Minister of Transport, Lord James Douglas-Hamilton, whose decision was being challenged before the courts, as was a senior civil servant in charge of the project and, would you believe it, was the Chairman of the Skye Bridge Company which collects the tolls. No conflict of interests there then.
Some members of the Scottish legal profession are themselves taking a renewed interest in the Spec.
Join the growing resistance movement against corruption and
tyranny.
LJPR LEGAL JUDICIAL POLITICAL REFORMERS
Masonic judges OUT Juries IN
Posted by: Corrupt EU, Fife on 9:37pm Thu 22 May 08
" The CIA and the Lockerbie Bomb
It is possible that Iran will be made the new scapegoat for the Lockerbie Bomb. But, what about CIA involvement?
Major Charles McKie worked for the US Defence Intelligence Agency.
While in Lebanon, McKee reportedly discovered a CIA team who were working with Manzur El-Khassar , a Syrian drug dealer.
Reportedly El-Khassar was friends with Lt. Col. Oliver North who reportedly was involved with trafficking in drugs and guns.
Reportedly Major Charles McKie was going to act as a whistleblower, but he was killed in the 1988 Lockerbie Bombing. "
http://www.infowars.
com/articles/ps/uk_l
ockerbie_bomber_and_
the_cia.htm
" The CIA and the Lockerbie Bomb
It is possible that Iran will be made the new scapegoat for the Lockerbie Bomb. But, what about CIA involvement?
Major Charles McKie worked for the US Defence Intelligence Agency.
While in Lebanon, McKee reportedly discovered a CIA team who were working with Manzur El-Khassar , a Syrian drug dealer.
Reportedly El-Khassar was friends with Lt. Col. Oliver North who reportedly was involved with trafficking in drugs and guns.
Reportedly Major Charles McKie was going to act as a whistleblower, but he was killed in the 1988 Lockerbie Bombing. "
http://www.infowars.
com/articles/ps/uk_l
ockerbie_bomber_and_
the_cia.htm
Posted by: Colin B, Bearsden on 11:01pm Thu 22 May 08
another disgraceful dark day for Scottish justice - Neil Davidson the Advocate general is a Wendy donor and Labour party memmber- not there on merit
Mugabe would not have tried such a sham
another disgraceful dark day for Scottish justice - Neil Davidson the Advocate general is a Wendy donor and Labour party memmber- not there on merit
Mugabe would not have tried such a sham
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