Schools pander to ‘rights’ of children, union claims
Local authorities are increasingly giving in to parents' unacceptable demands about the "rights" of their children at school, the president of one of Scotland's largest teaching unions said yesterday.
Ann Ballinger, president
of the Scottish Secondary Teachers' Association (SSTA), told the union's annual conference in Peebles that this was making it difficult to deal with disruptive behaviour.
She said: "We spend an increasing amount of time dealing with disruption caused by pupils who, when asked to undertake a task, or punishment or detention respond loudly with, You can't make me, I have rights'.
"An increasing amount of time is taken up in schools dealing with pupils who have rights and with their parents who demand action against teachers depriving their little angel' of his or her rights.
"At the same time, some local authorities are giving in to the I have rights' argument and instructing schools not to confront the problem, but to appease complaining parents."
As revealed in The Herald yesterday, Ms Ballinger also warned staff at secondary schools across Scotland are routinely bullied by headteachers and deputy heads.
She told the conference that "far too many" teachers are now subject to intimidation from management.
David Eaglesham, general secretary of the SSTA, echoed the concerns. He said: "We are increasingly aware of local authorities who simply take the side of parents as the line of least resistance.
"Unfortunately, what that does is leave the teacher without the support they need while actually rewarding the bad behaviour that caused the problem in the first place."
Mr Eaglesham went on to attack the way the ongoing reform of what is taught
in schools - the so-called
Curriculum for Excellence - claiming there was widespread confusion among teachers about what its aims were and how it would be implemented.
Yesterday's conference saw a succession of motions
criticising the initiative with warnings that successive
governments were paying only "lip service" to teachers' views.
There were also worries about moves to scrap Standard Grades and introduce compulsory literacy and numeracy tests in S4.
Mr Eaglesham warned that leaving decisions to local authorities on what the curriculum would look like risked the creation of "32 different curriculums for 32 local authorities".
However Fiona Hyslop, the Education Secretary, urged delegates to get involved in the forthcoming consultation exercise for the proposed reforms. "We are at a key stage in these changes but there is plenty of time and opportunity for teachers to have their say," she said.
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Posted by: Martin McDonald, Cumbernauld on 8:41pm Fri 16 May 08
An exceptionally unprofessional outburst from this individual. She should apologise or resign.
It seems that as far as teachers are concerned it's always someone else's fault. The calibre of teachers in the education system is part of the problem but this is rarely ackowledged. There are many great teachers but their are also many lazy and unsuitable people in teaching roles who should, as they would be in any other job, be performance managed out of their jobs.
The recruitment process is not robust enough and barrier to entry is wrongly positioned. It's time these were reviewed.
An exceptionally unprofessional outburst from this individual. She should apologise or resign.
It seems that as far as teachers are concerned it's always someone else's fault. The calibre of teachers in the education system is part of the problem but this is rarely ackowledged. There are many great teachers but their are also many lazy and unsuitable people in teaching roles who should, as they would be in any other job, be performance managed out of their jobs.
The recruitment process is not robust enough and barrier to entry is wrongly positioned. It's time these were reviewed.
Posted by: Alastair, Aberdeen on 8:56pm Fri 16 May 08
With respect, Martin, I'm not so sure. I have been in the university teaching system, and even by 1st year, straight from school, students are fully aware of their "rights", and in contrast, often completely ignorant of their responsibilities. In fact, the rule of thumb nowadays is that only the most conscienscious undertake any independent study - so much is handed out on a plate, and so tight are the "guidelines" that have to be adhered to. The horror stories I could tell you from many, many friends I have in academic circles would make you turn pale. I have heard of students getting parents involved and harrassing university staff over such issues as not getting the grades they expected at the end of 2nd year.
Now, the question is, how come even first year students get as far as freshers' week already fully armed to the teeth with the legal battery of their "rights"? Just a thought.
With respect, Martin, I'm not so sure. I have been in the university teaching system, and even by 1st year, straight from school, students are fully aware of their "rights", and in contrast, often completely ignorant of their responsibilities. In fact, the rule of thumb nowadays is that only the most conscienscious undertake any independent study - so much is handed out on a plate, and so tight are the "guidelines" that have to be adhered to. The horror stories I could tell you from many, many friends I have in academic circles would make you turn pale. I have heard of students getting parents involved and harrassing university staff over such issues as not getting the grades they expected at the end of 2nd year.
Now, the question is, how come even first year students get as far as freshers' week already fully armed to the teeth with the legal battery of their "rights"? Just a thought.
Posted by: Martin McDonald, Cumbernauld on 9:08pm Fri 16 May 08
I know what you are saying Alastair, but I think it's better that young people know their rights and expect to receive them. I don't think they are asking much to be treated properly. Better than the apathy we've seen from the last few generations of students who don't care much about anything. Maybe standing up for themselves will lead to them standing up more for others too.
I know what you are saying Alastair, but I think it's better that young people know their rights and expect to receive them. I don't think they are asking much to be treated properly. Better than the apathy we've seen from the last few generations of students who don't care much about anything. Maybe standing up for themselves will lead to them standing up more for others too.
Posted by: Observer, Glasgow on 9:25pm Fri 16 May 08
Teachers are well paid, and have techniques to deal with either difficult children or difficult parents.
She is not speaking as a professional, she is speaking as a Union rep. Having said that I have little sympathy with what she is saying, she appears to be entirely negative, I would rather hear the EIS point of view, they seem a more progressive Union ( correct me if I am wrong).
And I agree completely with Martin, apathy is our worst enemy.
Teachers are well paid, and have techniques to deal with either difficult children or difficult parents.
She is not speaking as a professional, she is speaking as a Union rep. Having said that I have little sympathy with what she is saying, she appears to be entirely negative, I would rather hear the EIS point of view, they seem a more progressive Union ( correct me if I am wrong).
And I agree completely with Martin, apathy is our worst enemy.
Posted by: Alastair, Aberdeen on 10:08pm Fri 16 May 08
I agree with you both, apathy is indeed the worst enemy of everybody except the tryant (to whom it is the greatest ally)!
I agree with you both, apathy is indeed the worst enemy of everybody except the tryant (to whom it is the greatest ally)!
Posted by: Lobeydosser, Woodlands Road on 6:39am Sat 17 May 08
This is part of a broader picture of rights and responsibiities, but there is this issue that it is 'my right' but 'it is not my responsibility'; we give too much creedence to 'my right' - hence the compensation culture.
This is part of a broader picture of rights and responsibiities, but there is this issue that it is 'my right' but 'it is not my responsibility'; we give too much creedence to 'my right' - hence the compensation culture.
Posted by: Alastair, Aberdeen on 10:06am Sat 17 May 08
I agree Lobeydosser. This is what I was trying to get at in my first post vis-a-vis students being fully aware of rights but in many cases virtually ignorant of responsibilities. I agree with Martin, and Observer completely that we should uphold rights, but somewhere along the way an awareness of responsibilities has been lost, hence, as you say, the rampant compensation culture.
I agree Lobeydosser. This is what I was trying to get at in my first post vis-a-vis students being fully aware of rights but in many cases virtually ignorant of responsibilities. I agree with Martin, and Observer completely that we should uphold rights, but somewhere along the way an awareness of responsibilities has been lost, hence, as you say, the rampant compensation culture.
Posted by: sam, greenock on 10:13am Sat 17 May 08
Well I knew it was bound to happen one day, I have found myself agreeing wholeheartedly with Martin and Alistair.
:o)
Well I knew it was bound to happen one day, I have found myself agreeing wholeheartedly with Martin and Alistair.
:o)
Posted by: Im no really here, but over there on 11:04am Sat 17 May 08
Perhaps a solution would be for Local Authorities and schools to publish the rights [bold]and[/bold] responsibilities or both Teachers and Pupils well before a new school year, and then it the parent thinks that these are an infringement of the "little angels" rights, they can go and find another school.
Perhaps a solution would be for Local Authorities and schools to publish the rights
and responsibilities or both Teachers and Pupils well before a new school year, and then it the parent thinks that these are an infringement of the "little angels" rights, they can go and find another school.
Posted by: Carnwarth on 12:09pm Sat 17 May 08
As the divine Oscar didn't write - "Is this Miss Ballinger a repellent person, remotely connected with education?"
How can any child respect someone who could write such a foul attack on her pupils as -
"An increasing amount of time is taken up in schools dealing with pupils who have rights and with their parents who demand action against teachers depriving their little angel' of his or her rights.
"At the same time, some local authorities are giving in to the I have rights' argument
As the divine Oscar didn't write - "Is this Miss Ballinger a repellent person, remotely connected with education?"
How can any child respect someone who could write such a foul attack on her pupils as -
"An increasing amount of time is taken up in schools dealing with pupils who have rights and with their parents who demand action against teachers depriving their little angel' of his or her rights.
"At the same time, some local authorities are giving in to the I have rights' argument
Posted by: Grassy Knollington on 12:19pm Sat 17 May 08
Ms Ballinger's tone is not very professional. I find her choice of words when referring to the children and their parents quite surprising.
Ms Ballinger's tone is not very professional. I find her choice of words when referring to the children and their parents quite surprising.
Posted by: Carnwarth on 12:34pm Sat 17 May 08
[quote][bold]Alastair[/bold] wrote:
I agree Lobeydosser. This is what I was trying to get at in my first post vis-a-vis students being fully aware of rights but in many cases virtually ignorant of responsibilities. I agree with Martin, and Observer completely that we should uphold rights, but somewhere along the way an awareness of responsibilities has been lost, hence, as you say, the rampant compensation culture. [/quote] A very fair point - but teachers are supposed to be professionals so to attack the very concept of students having rights, as this Balliner person did, smacks of the old view that teachers are due respect simply because of their status and regardless of their behaviour. Ms Ballinger's behaviour is inappropriate so it is little wonder that her students do not respect her – I certainly wouldn’t. While I am sure I don’t always succeed, I expect respect and responsible behaviour from my students only after making every effort to respect their right to education and respectful treatment – then if they are disrespectful and unmindful of their responsibilities I challenge them on it directly. Of course there are a few immature idiots in any year but if they have been schooled by Ms Ballinger and her like I think it is little wonder they are less than idea students when they arrive at uni.
Alastair wrote:
I agree Lobeydosser. This is what I was trying to get at in my first post vis-a-vis students being fully aware of rights but in many cases virtually ignorant of responsibilities. I agree with Martin, and Observer completely that we should uphold rights, but somewhere along the way an awareness of responsibilities has been lost, hence, as you say, the rampant compensation culture.
A very fair point - but teachers are supposed to be professionals so to attack the very concept of students having rights, as this Balliner person did, smacks of the old view that teachers are due respect simply because of their status and regardless of their behaviour. Ms Ballinger's behaviour is inappropriate so it is little wonder that her students do not respect her – I certainly wouldn’t. While I am sure I don’t always succeed, I expect respect and responsible behaviour from my students only after making every effort to respect their right to education and respectful treatment – then if they are disrespectful and unmindful of their responsibilities I challenge them on it directly. Of course there are a few immature idiots in any year but if they have been schooled by Ms Ballinger and her like I think it is little wonder they are less than idea students when they arrive at uni.
Posted by: Lobeydosser, Woodlands Road on 1:30pm Sat 17 May 08
Carnwath! I agree with you entirely! It is my experience of school 30 years ago; there were teachers you had to respect because of their status and they did things that would have got them sacked now - they always appeared either unable tocontrol a class or controlled it through fear; there were some who were reasonably good teachers and there were those who you would respect anyway because of their teaching abilities and got good results - they rarely had trouble in the class. The SSTA rep was an excellent teacher but the EIS one was n't that good.
Some teaching friends also hold the same view and worry about those who got into teaching but are not capable of doing the job - perfectly nice people but maybe teaching is not for them.
I teach adults, fairly regularly, but could n't teach kids and take my hat off to those that can.
Carnwath! I agree with you entirely! It is my experience of school 30 years ago; there were teachers you had to respect because of their status and they did things that would have got them sacked now - they always appeared either unable tocontrol a class or controlled it through fear; there were some who were reasonably good teachers and there were those who you would respect anyway because of their teaching abilities and got good results - they rarely had trouble in the class. The SSTA rep was an excellent teacher but the EIS one was n't that good.
Some teaching friends also hold the same view and worry about those who got into teaching but are not capable of doing the job - perfectly nice people but maybe teaching is not for them.
I teach adults, fairly regularly, but could n't teach kids and take my hat off to those that can.
Posted by: Carnwarth on 1:57pm Sat 17 May 08
[quote][bold]Lobeydosser[/bold] wrote:
Carnwath! I agree with you entirely! It is my experience of school 30 years ago; there were teachers you had to respect because of their status and they did things that would have got them sacked now - they always appeared either unable tocontrol a class or controlled it through fear; there were some who were reasonably good teachers and there were those who you would respect anyway because of their teaching abilities and got good results - they rarely had trouble in the class. The SSTA rep was an excellent teacher but the EIS one was n't that good. Some teaching friends also hold the same view and worry about those who got into teaching but are not capable of doing the job - perfectly nice people but maybe teaching is not for them. I teach adults, fairly regularly, but could n't teach kids and take my hat off to those that can.[/quote] At the risk of getting too cosy may I in turn agree with you? I could never teach a room full of school children - and knowing that I have never attempted tried. Those who have the skills deserve as much recognition and reward as it is possible to give.
When I was in social services you used to see adverts in the Guardian along the lines of "Would you like lots of money to work with disturbed teanagers?" - in a word? - "no".
Lobeydosser wrote:
Carnwath! I agree with you entirely! It is my experience of school 30 years ago; there were teachers you had to respect because of their status and they did things that would have got them sacked now - they always appeared either unable tocontrol a class or controlled it through fear; there were some who were reasonably good teachers and there were those who you would respect anyway because of their teaching abilities and got good results - they rarely had trouble in the class. The SSTA rep was an excellent teacher but the EIS one was n't that good. Some teaching friends also hold the same view and worry about those who got into teaching but are not capable of doing the job - perfectly nice people but maybe teaching is not for them. I teach adults, fairly regularly, but could n't teach kids and take my hat off to those that can.
At the risk of getting too cosy may I in turn agree with you? I could never teach a room full of school children - and knowing that I have never attempted tried. Those who have the skills deserve as much recognition and reward as it is possible to give.
When I was in social services you used to see adverts in the Guardian along the lines of "Would you like lots of money to work with disturbed teanagers?" - in a word? - "no".
Posted by: Alastair, Aberdeen on 3:17pm Sat 17 May 08
It did have to happen Sam. I look forward to speaking again soon :-)
It did have to happen Sam. I look forward to speaking again soon :-)
Posted by: bullied teacher, Canada on 2:18pm Sun 18 May 08
[quote][bold]Lobeydosser[/bold] wrote:
This is part of a broader picture of rights and responsibiities, but there is this issue that it is 'my right' but 'it is not my responsibility'; we give too much creedence to 'my right' - hence the compensation culture.[/quote] I can't state enough how much I agree with this statement.
Lobeydosser wrote:
This is part of a broader picture of rights and responsibiities, but there is this issue that it is 'my right' but 'it is not my responsibility'; we give too much creedence to 'my right' - hence the compensation culture.
I can't state enough how much I agree with this statement.
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