Drug tests urged for public sector staff
All public sector workers should be subject to random drug testing, according to the head of one of Scotland's most influential police bodies.
Chief Superintendent Valerie McHoull, president
of the Association of Scottish Police Superintendents,
yesterday called for testing to try and curb demand for illicit drugs.
Last month, senior police officers revealed random testing is to be introduced to Scotland's eight police forces to try to eradicate substance misuse.
Estimates suggest around 1000 officers, 6% of the total service in Scotland, may use drugs and one officer has been charged with dealing.
Speaking at the association's annual conference in Dunblane, Ms McHoull, the first female president in the body's 85-year history, also called for Kenny MacAskill, the Justice Secretary, to consider that the current eight-force structure in Scotland "may be out of step" with the contemporary world.
She also raised concerns about current policy to retain officers under the 30-plus scheme, which she said is "not an effective way to increase overall numbers" in the police.
Ms McHoull said: "Drug testing is now being rolled out across all Scottish forces as a national measure and the association welcomes this. We believe it should be mandatory for all police officers.
"This is not just a police issue, this is a societal issue and it is something that you might consider progressing across the whole public sector.
"If all organisations, public and private, including ultimately universities and sports clubs, introduced testing perhaps we could make more of an impact in the war against drugs - from the demand end rather than supply.
"Had the private sector had mandatory or even possibly optional drug testing a decade ago then the proliferation of cocaine use among young professionals might have been averted."
There are some 582,300 people employed in the public sector in Scotland, making up approximately 23% of the country's total workforce.
Grampian Police introduced random testing several years ago.
The forces-wide scheme announced last month is expected to see probationers tested on joining and every two years afterwards.
While some firms, such as Network Rail, are required by law to test employees, others do so because of health and safety concerns.
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Posted by: Lobeydosser, Woodlands Road on 8:19pm Fri 16 May 08
Excellent, I like this.
If drugs testing is done for one part of the public sector then it has to be done to all. Equally legislation also exists to enable drugs testing to be done as part of a recruitment process for the private sector during routine medicals.
Excellent, I like this.
If drugs testing is done for one part of the public sector then it has to be done to all. Equally legislation also exists to enable drugs testing to be done as part of a recruitment process for the private sector during routine medicals.
Posted by: stevie, glasgow on 8:32pm Fri 16 May 08
The sooner we test MSP's and MP's the better.
The sooner we test MSP's and MP's the better.
Posted by: Observer, Glasgow on 8:37pm Fri 16 May 08
I take it you are joking Lobey, you never struck me as a fascisto.
They can p1ss off. If a worker is impaired at work they can be disciplined. What he or she does outside hours is entirely their own concern.
On the other hand, if they sent home everyone from work that had had a wee puff at the weekend there would be some fairly empty Offices, and if they added alcohol to the list the it would rival the General Strike.
I take it you are joking Lobey, you never struck me as a fascisto.
They can p1ss off. If a worker is impaired at work they can be disciplined. What he or she does outside hours is entirely their own concern.
On the other hand, if they sent home everyone from work that had had a wee puff at the weekend there would be some fairly empty Offices, and if they added alcohol to the list the it would rival the General Strike.
Posted by: Observer, Glasgow on 8:39pm Fri 16 May 08
[quote][bold]stevie[/bold] wrote:
The sooner we test MSP's and MP's the better.[/quote] I hope for their sake they are on drugs, how embarrassing if they were not.
stevie wrote:
The sooner we test MSP's and MP's the better.
I hope for their sake they are on drugs, how embarrassing if they were not.
Posted by: stevie, glasgow on 8:43pm Fri 16 May 08
[quote][bold]Observer[/bold] wrote:
[quote][bold]stevie[/bold] wrote:
The sooner we test MSP's and MP's the better.[/quote] I hope for their sake they are on drugs, how embarrassing if they were not. [/quote] Nice one .
Observer wrote:
stevie wrote:
The sooner we test MSP's and MP's the better.
I hope for their sake they are on drugs, how embarrassing if they were not.
Nice one .
Posted by: scotland only 8% of UK, consumes 11% of social security on 8:54pm Fri 16 May 08
[quote]There are some [bold]582,300[/bold] people employed in the public sector in Scotland, making up approximately [bold]23%[/bold] of the country's total workforce.[/quote]
[bold]466,000[/bold] more people in England are in employment than a year ago!
[bold]-1000[/bold] less people in scotsland are in employment than a year ago!
[bold]234,000[/bold] more [bold]males[/bold] in [bold]England[/bold] are in employment than a year ago!
[bold]-10,000[/bold] less [bold]males[/bold] in [bold]scotsland[/bold] are in employment than a year ago!
[bold]13,486,000[/bold] [bold]males[/bold] in [bold]England[/bold] are in employment!
only
[bold]1,327,000[/bold] [bold]males[/bold] in [bold]scotsland[/bold] are in fulltime and parttime employment!
[bold]5.78[/bold] million is the size of the public sector UK wide
[bold]4.8 million[/bold] public sector workers [bold]England[/bold]
yet a massive
[bold]582,300[/bold] public sector workers in [bold]scotsland[/bold]
compaired to only
486,000 in Yorkshire and The Humber (which has a larger population than scotsland )
population figures for scotsland are also bogus
4,174,000 persons aged 16 and over!
888,400 persons aged under 16!
5,062,400 Total population ?
However the official population figures for scotsland state
5,138,000 mid 2007 official population figures?
5,157,000 mid 2008 official population figures?
75,600 of scotslands population dont appear? why?
Labour Market May 2008 page 35 (scotsland aged over 16 numbers)
tinyurl.com/6blszk
HMRC Children under 16 numbers (tab6)
tinyurl.com/5lrnza
Population figures PESA2008 Table F1
tinyurl.com/3p5py5
There are some 582,300 people employed in the public sector in Scotland, making up approximately 23% of the country's total workforce.
466,000 more people in England are in employment than a year ago!
-1000 less people in scotsland are in employment than a year ago!
234,000 more
males in
England are in employment than a year ago!
-10,000 less
males in
scotsland are in employment than a year ago!
13,486,000 males in
England are in employment!
only
1,327,000 males in
scotsland are in fulltime and parttime employment!
5.78 million is the size of the public sector UK wide
4.8 million public sector workers
England
yet a massive
582,300 public sector workers in
scotsland
compaired to only
486,000 in Yorkshire and The Humber (which has a larger population than scotsland )
population figures for scotsland are also bogus
4,174,000 persons aged 16 and over!
888,400 persons aged under 16!
5,062,400 Total population ?
However the official population figures for scotsland state
5,138,000 mid 2007 official population figures?
5,157,000 mid 2008 official population figures?
75,600 of scotslands population dont appear? why?
Labour Market May 2008 page 35 (scotsland aged over 16 numbers)
tinyurl.com/6blszk
HMRC Children under 16 numbers (tab6)
tinyurl.com/5lrnza
Population figures PESA2008 Table F1
tinyurl.com/3p5py5
Posted by: Observer, Glasgow on 9:00pm Fri 16 May 08
Yawn.
Stevie are there any new fridge magnets ?
Yawn.
Stevie are there any new fridge magnets ?
Posted by: Lobeydosser, Woodlands Road on 6:56am Sat 17 May 08
HI Observer, I was being a bit tongue in cheek, because it would be practically impossible to enforce, without a 'fascist approach'; I may be right wing but not that far
However I do know of companies that have tested potential employees, who have failed the drugs screening on their medical and not being employed, but the down side has been that companies were unable to reach their recruitment targets as a result of this, i.e. a lot of the locals were taking illegal substances.
Personally, I do not mind if anyone has a joint, or wahtever, providing they do it in their own homes and not in public and that if it affects their abilities to drive or operate machinery then they need to bear the consequences.
HI Observer, I was being a bit tongue in cheek, because it would be practically impossible to enforce, without a 'fascist approach'; I may be right wing but not that far
However I do know of companies that have tested potential employees, who have failed the drugs screening on their medical and not being employed, but the down side has been that companies were unable to reach their recruitment targets as a result of this, i.e. a lot of the locals were taking illegal substances.
Personally, I do not mind if anyone has a joint, or wahtever, providing they do it in their own homes and not in public and that if it affects their abilities to drive or operate machinery then they need to bear the consequences.
Posted by: Alan Johnstone, Glasgow on 9:35am Sat 17 May 08
Nice sound bite chief super, well intended I,m sure. Though concentrating on the neds, jakeys and other arrogant, sorry vulnerable, jokers is rather higher on many peoples lists.
In fact why not concentrate on the profilesof many of your own Forces. Why?
Because the percentage of police officers found to be offending seems disproportionately high compared to the general population.
We don't live under rocks you know.
Nice sound bite chief super, well intended I,m sure. Though concentrating on the neds, jakeys and other arrogant, sorry vulnerable, jokers is rather higher on many peoples lists.
In fact why not concentrate on the profilesof many of your own Forces. Why?
Because the percentage of police officers found to be offending seems disproportionately high compared to the general population.
We don't live under rocks you know.
Posted by: Corrupt EU, Fife on 9:48am Sat 17 May 08
Police state Britain.
www.infowars.com
Police state Britain.
www.infowars.com
Posted by: SwissToni, A Neutral Corner on 10:55am Sat 17 May 08
Observer @8:37 is spot on
Most of these tests measure only the metabolites of the drug which can hang around the body for weeks making the test is meaningless. Just another step along the way to a sterile nanny state
If we really want to get tough about drugs then booze would be a good place to start. The statistics in terms of £'s and social misery are there for all to see and are a national tradegy. Surely it is now time that the goverment distanced themselves from the drinks industry who are being allowed to peddle their drug with impunity
Observer @8:37 is spot on
Most of these tests measure only the metabolites of the drug which can hang around the body for weeks making the test is meaningless. Just another step along the way to a sterile nanny state
If we really want to get tough about drugs then booze would be a good place to start. The statistics in terms of £'s and social misery are there for all to see and are a national tradegy. Surely it is now time that the goverment distanced themselves from the drinks industry who are being allowed to peddle their drug with impunity
Posted by: stevie, glasgow on 12:50pm Sat 17 May 08
[quote][bold]Observer[/bold] wrote:
Yawn.
Stevie are there any new fridge magnets ? [/quote] Yes,wee Marianna the Romanian kid who runs the fridge magnet stall in Bearsden has just taken a batch of Micheal Martins (head on a pig ) and George Foulkes as a tramp.
Don't tell Wullie but she's chasing up some Enoch Powells ,Winston and Richard Nixons.
Enoch is dressed in a Sari,Winston is wearing a thong and Nixon has the body of a peach?.
I wonder if Wullie has managed to get those sheep out of his lavvy?.
Observer wrote:
Yawn.
Stevie are there any new fridge magnets ?
Yes,wee Marianna the Romanian kid who runs the fridge magnet stall in Bearsden has just taken a batch of Micheal Martins (head on a pig ) and George Foulkes as a tramp.
Don't tell Wullie but she's chasing up some Enoch Powells ,Winston and Richard Nixons.
Enoch is dressed in a Sari,Winston is wearing a thong and Nixon has the body of a peach?.
I wonder if Wullie has managed to get those sheep out of his lavvy?.
Posted by: George Laird, Glasgow on 4:46pm Sat 17 May 08
[quote][bold]Observer[/bold] wrote:
I take it you are joking Lobey, you never struck me as a fascisto. They can p1ss off. If a worker is impaired at work they can be disciplined. What he or she does outside hours is entirely their own concern. On the other hand, if they sent home everyone from work that had had a wee puff at the weekend there would be some fairly empty Offices, and if they added alcohol to the list the it would rival the General Strike.[/quote] Dear Observer
"What he or she does outside hours is entirely their own concern".
Is it?
You are willing to accept that if a worker is impaired then something should be done about it.
However you don't want any formal testing that is a nonsense position.
If we accept testing is acceptable and it surely must be, who can it harm except those who are guilty.
Should a train driver who smokes cannabis be driving trains because "what he does outside hours is entirely their own concern"?
No.
I see no problem testing for drugs, they are illegal
Yours sincerely
George Laird
The Campaign for Human Rights at Glasgow University
Observer wrote:
I take it you are joking Lobey, you never struck me as a fascisto. They can p1ss off. If a worker is impaired at work they can be disciplined. What he or she does outside hours is entirely their own concern. On the other hand, if they sent home everyone from work that had had a wee puff at the weekend there would be some fairly empty Offices, and if they added alcohol to the list the it would rival the General Strike.
Dear Observer
"What he or she does outside hours is entirely their own concern".
Is it?
You are willing to accept that if a worker is impaired then something should be done about it.
However you don't want any formal testing that is a nonsense position.
If we accept testing is acceptable and it surely must be, who can it harm except those who are guilty.
Should a train driver who smokes cannabis be driving trains because "what he does outside hours is entirely their own concern"?
No.
I see no problem testing for drugs, they are illegal
Yours sincerely
George Laird
The Campaign for Human Rights at Glasgow University
Posted by: sam, greenock on 5:10pm Sat 17 May 08
[quote][bold]Lobeydosser[/bold] wrote:
HI Observer, I was being a bit tongue in cheek, because it would be practically impossible to enforce, without a 'fascist approach'; I may be right wing but not that far However I do know of companies that have tested potential employees, who have failed the drugs screening on their medical and not being employed, but the down side has been that companies were unable to reach their recruitment targets as a result of this, i.e. a lot of the locals were taking illegal substances. Personally, I do not mind if anyone has a joint, or wahtever, providing they do it in their own homes and not in public and that if it affects their abilities to drive or operate machinery then they need to bear the consequences. [/quote] A company I worked for was the same, they only wanted to weed out smakheids. If you like a puff and told the nurse/doctor they would let it go.
Lobeydosser wrote:
HI Observer, I was being a bit tongue in cheek, because it would be practically impossible to enforce, without a 'fascist approach'; I may be right wing but not that far However I do know of companies that have tested potential employees, who have failed the drugs screening on their medical and not being employed, but the down side has been that companies were unable to reach their recruitment targets as a result of this, i.e. a lot of the locals were taking illegal substances. Personally, I do not mind if anyone has a joint, or wahtever, providing they do it in their own homes and not in public and that if it affects their abilities to drive or operate machinery then they need to bear the consequences.
A company I worked for was the same, they only wanted to weed out smakheids. If you like a puff and told the nurse/doctor they would let it go.
Posted by: Kiera Hardie on 6:29pm Sun 18 May 08
[quote]Should a train driver who smokes cannabis be driving trains because "what he does outside hours is entirely their own concern"?
No.
I see no problem testing for drugs, they are illegal
Yours sincerely
George Laird
The Campaign for Human Rights at Glasgow University[/quote] What the flip does any of this to do with human rights at Glagow Uni? I think you are just an obsessive failed sociology student.
Should a train driver who smokes cannabis be driving trains because "what he does outside hours is entirely their own concern"?
No.
I see no problem testing for drugs, they are illegal
Yours sincerely
George Laird
The Campaign for Human Rights at Glasgow University
What the flip does any of this to do with human rights at Glagow Uni? I think you are just an obsessive failed sociology student.
Posted by: celtic4, United States on 11:54pm Mon 19 May 08
AT any job here in the USA, one can be randomly tested for drugs(and alcohol) and if found positive results you're canned! I think this is good! We have had this going on for some time now, and it doesn't matter if Cannibus or not, if it is an illegal drug you're out! Good going! Less drugs mean less crime and less on the job accidents.
AT any job here in the USA, one can be randomly tested for drugs(and alcohol) and if found positive results you're canned! I think this is good! We have had this going on for some time now, and it doesn't matter if Cannibus or not, if it is an illegal drug you're out! Good going! Less drugs mean less crime and less on the job accidents.
Posted by: j, glasgow on 5:11pm Thu 22 May 08
Unfortunately these drug tests only pick up certain types of drugs that remain in a person's system. Therefore if someone had taken cannabis 3 weeks prior they are likely to fail whereas someone who had taken a class A such as esctasy or cocaine 3 days prior they would be likely to pass. I don't agree that drug testing is effective in any line of work. On a personal level, in terms of employee performance, I would far rather that someone came to work having smoked a joint the previous evening than someone who came in hungover from drinking. In response to George Laird, I would be concerned if said train driver had used any substance that would affect her/his judgement prior to driving the train, but if she or he wanted to use drugs during their time off, as a passenger or employer I don't think that would be any of my business. Drugs may be illegal but the fact is there are a lot of recreational users across all sectors of employment. Making criminals of these people or having them lose their careers wouldn't to my mind be useful.
Unfortunately these drug tests only pick up certain types of drugs that remain in a person's system. Therefore if someone had taken cannabis 3 weeks prior they are likely to fail whereas someone who had taken a class A such as esctasy or cocaine 3 days prior they would be likely to pass. I don't agree that drug testing is effective in any line of work. On a personal level, in terms of employee performance, I would far rather that someone came to work having smoked a joint the previous evening than someone who came in hungover from drinking. In response to George Laird, I would be concerned if said train driver had used any substance that would affect her/his judgement prior to driving the train, but if she or he wanted to use drugs during their time off, as a passenger or employer I don't think that would be any of my business. Drugs may be illegal but the fact is there are a lot of recreational users across all sectors of employment. Making criminals of these people or having them lose their careers wouldn't to my mind be useful.
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