Salmond demands full probe into Uefa cup clashes
David Leask, Robbie Dinwoodie
and Michael Settle
Alex Salmond is leading cross-party calls for a full inquiry into Wednesday's clashes between Rangers fans and Manchester police officers.
The First Minister yesterday made the demand as Prime
Minister Gordon Brown warned that the trouble could cost
England the right to host the 2018 World Cup.
Some 200 fans - barely more than one for every 1000 who travelled to the city for their side's Uefa Cup final with Zenit St Petersburg - attacked police officers late on Wednesday evening after big screens set up for ticketless supporters broke down. Fifteen police officers were injured,
a Russian fan stabbed and 42 supporters arrested.
However, last night Rangers officials said individuals with no known history of following the club were among those believed to be involved in the trouble.
Chief executive Martin Bain said: "We have been informed those scenes were caused by supporters who don't normally attach themselves to our support.
"Therefore, we're extremely disappointed and we'll do everything we possibly can to help Manchester Police find out who those perpetrators are."
Rangers security chief Kenny Scott said the club would take "appropriate action" against those responsible."
Manchester council has vowed to find out why the screens failed but Mr Salmond, backed by Labour, Tories and Liberal Democrats, said the scope of the inquiry should be wider.
He told the Scottish Parliament: "I think there are a number of other aspects to inquire into and certainly we'll give full co-operation, in all the matters under our responsibility, to such an inquiry." However, Mr Salmond added: "There was no excuse for the behaviour of an unacceptable minority."
Later, a senior aide said: "There was obviously a failure in allowing glass bottles into the fan zone areas."
Gordon Brown branded the small number of troublemakers "a disgrace". He said: "I want to praise the police for the action they took. It's something we will have to investigate.
"I want to do everything to avoid us being put in a position where we might be at risk of an application for the 2018 World Cup not being acceptable because of this."
He said the UK Government would "want to look at the powers police have to be able to control the use of alcohol in public places" and suggested that the messages sent to ticketless fans not to go to cities where matches were held should be "far stronger in future".
Rangers fans in Manchester had condemned what they regarded as a heavy-handed response from the police, although many toned down their views once video images appeared of clashes between
supporters and police.
Estimates for the number of Scots in Manchester on Wednesday varied but The Herald understands the most robust figure is around 150,000.
Police later confirmed that
11 men were charged with various offences - mostly involving public order, but also assault, being drunk in a sportsground and throwing a missile.
Another 11 were bailed pending further inquiries and 12 were given cautions. Seven men, including one Zenit fan, were released without charge.
The clashes left 15 police
officers nursing a catalogue of minor injuries. CCTV released by police showed seven officers attempting to keep the 200 fans at arm's length as cans, bottles and rubbish were thrown at them. Many of the fans were not wearing Rangers colours.
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permission is prohibited.
Posted by: george alexander, north lanarkshire on 10:49pm Thu 15 May 08
Posted on another article........this is more apt.
On the subject of the Rangers fans, I've just seen pictures on the news and it is deplorable.
I don't believe that the fans who took part in the violence are Unionists...........
..the Union flag is simply football bunting......they are thugs, pure and simple. However, we cannot deny the fact that they were almost certainly Scottish and they have brought shame on us all.
I feel that Rangers would do well to cease the blatant militaristic and triumphalist songs and music that emanates from both the tannoys and the crowd at ibrox. The 'no-one likes us.....we don't care' song is indicative of the insular and seige mentality that prevails at Ibrox.
The tone and atmosphere is one of aggression and defiance and doesn't lend itself to warmth from outsiders or onlookers. It is easy to see why those who might be prone to violence would feel emboldened in such an aggressive atmosphere.
Posted on another article........this is more apt.
On the subject of the Rangers fans, I've just seen pictures on the news and it is deplorable.
I don't believe that the fans who took part in the violence are Unionists...........
..the Union flag is simply football bunting......they are thugs, pure and simple. However, we cannot deny the fact that they were almost certainly Scottish and they have brought shame on us all.
I feel that Rangers would do well to cease the blatant militaristic and triumphalist songs and music that emanates from both the tannoys and the crowd at ibrox. The 'no-one likes us.....we don't care' song is indicative of the insular and seige mentality that prevails at Ibrox.
The tone and atmosphere is one of aggression and defiance and doesn't lend itself to warmth from outsiders or onlookers. It is easy to see why those who might be prone to violence would feel emboldened in such an aggressive atmosphere.
Posted by: jeezoh1, new zealand on 10:51pm Thu 15 May 08
I know it will be claimed that this is the result of a rotten few, however I feel really sad that my fellow countrymen were on our evening news here in New Zealand for their moronic behaviour.Shame.
I know it will be claimed that this is the result of a rotten few, however I feel really sad that my fellow countrymen were on our evening news here in New Zealand for their moronic behaviour.Shame.
Posted by: Wullie, Aberdeen on 11:36pm Thu 15 May 08
Why is it football fans never, ever take responsibilty for their actions. The rangers neds shrieked like banshees. ''It was the fault of the police, it was the fault of the council, it was the fault of the shopkeepers, it was the fault of the man on the moon.'' It was never, ever rangers fault. Funny that.
So when the big TVs broke down, the rangers fans had a tantrum and rioted. When a police office tripped up and fell to the flloor. The rangers neds, like gutless cowards set upon him like a pack of wolves.
This morning the rangers neds said '' the Manchester council didnt put on any rock concerts for us before the game ''. According to that thick logic , the council has to give these neds woodcraft hobbies to occupy their time or they will behave like savages.
Yeah, rangers and celtic fans never do anything wrong. They are like angelic cherubs twanging a harp on a fluffy pink cloud. Aye right.
Why is it football fans never, ever take responsibilty for their actions. The rangers neds shrieked like banshees. ''It was the fault of the police, it was the fault of the council, it was the fault of the shopkeepers, it was the fault of the man on the moon.'' It was never, ever rangers fault. Funny that.
So when the big TVs broke down, the rangers fans had a tantrum and rioted. When a police office tripped up and fell to the flloor. The rangers neds, like gutless cowards set upon him like a pack of wolves.
This morning the rangers neds said '' the Manchester council didnt put on any rock concerts for us before the game ''. According to that thick logic , the council has to give these neds woodcraft hobbies to occupy their time or they will behave like savages.
Yeah, rangers and celtic fans never do anything wrong. They are like angelic cherubs twanging a harp on a fluffy pink cloud. Aye right.
Posted by: Colin B, Bearsden on 11:40pm Thu 15 May 08
Some very naive , ill considered comments above- The 1972 Franco's fascist police werea rguably better than Greater manchester's. "Evil brands", "put them out of business"- Strathturret seems to be advocating a police state. George Alexander seems to think Rangers can gag fans vocal chords.
Our police forces must be accountable. Even today West Midland Police ( whose serious crime squad had to be disbanded for er, well crime eg falsifying confession in back of patrol cars) had to apolgise the pay libel dmaages to Channel 4 for trying to gag a mosque documentary
No police officers were disciplined or charged fro killing Jean Charles De menezes
While violence by the fans can't be condoned- anger is a natural human reaction to being wronged- the Police need to understand this- setting a police dog on injured, incapaciated and unconscious fan carried by many newpapers is not acceptable
Asst Chief Con Curran should not have commented while people were in custody, awaiting charge.
Why were the riot squad in situ before the screen failed?.
In 18 European ties in Glasgow and overseas no arrests/violence so why in Manchester?- the Rangers fans who misbehaved must bear responsibility but the repeated failures of our public sectors staff and police must also be brought under more scrutiny. That the screens were not tested would appear to be gross negligence.
Some very naive , ill considered comments above- The 1972 Franco's fascist police werea rguably better than Greater manchester's. "Evil brands", "put them out of business"- Strathturret seems to be advocating a police state. George Alexander seems to think Rangers can gag fans vocal chords.
Our police forces must be accountable. Even today West Midland Police ( whose serious crime squad had to be disbanded for er, well crime eg falsifying confession in back of patrol cars) had to apolgise the pay libel dmaages to Channel 4 for trying to gag a mosque documentary
No police officers were disciplined or charged fro killing Jean Charles De menezes
While violence by the fans can't be condoned- anger is a natural human reaction to being wronged- the Police need to understand this- setting a police dog on injured, incapaciated and unconscious fan carried by many newpapers is not acceptable
Asst Chief Con Curran should not have commented while people were in custody, awaiting charge.
Why were the riot squad in situ before the screen failed?.
In 18 European ties in Glasgow and overseas no arrests/violence so why in Manchester?- the Rangers fans who misbehaved must bear responsibility but the repeated failures of our public sectors staff and police must also be brought under more scrutiny. That the screens were not tested would appear to be gross negligence.
Posted by: beckypumps1, fife on 11:40pm Thu 15 May 08
This is all very sad but I am sure that not all involved came from north of the border.But shocking none the less.
This is all very sad but I am sure that not all involved came from north of the border.But shocking none the less.
Posted by: Wullie, Aberdeen on 11:42pm Thu 15 May 08
Here we have the twit '' George Alexander '' wittering on like an old sweetie wife . As someone who purports to be an advocate of independence '' George Alexander '' is indeed a phoney. Yesterday he was telling us he was a rangers fan. The most British, arch unionist, loyalist, union jack waving thing in Scotland. '' George '' probably goes to freemason meetings with Donald Findlay QC. Absolutely hilarious.
Listen '' George '' most of us on the Herald forum are use to you squealing like a piglet, but the majority of people in Scotland are not use to it. When are you going to behave yourself ? Its hard work for me typing out all these comments, trying to keep you right . Do us all a favour and give us all peace.
Here we have the twit '' George Alexander '' wittering on like an old sweetie wife . As someone who purports to be an advocate of independence '' George Alexander '' is indeed a phoney. Yesterday he was telling us he was a rangers fan. The most British, arch unionist, loyalist, union jack waving thing in Scotland. '' George '' probably goes to freemason meetings with Donald Findlay QC. Absolutely hilarious.
Listen '' George '' most of us on the Herald forum are use to you squealing like a piglet, but the majority of people in Scotland are not use to it. When are you going to behave yourself ? Its hard work for me typing out all these comments, trying to keep you right . Do us all a favour and give us all peace.
Posted by: wxalexander, canada on 11:56pm Thu 15 May 08
Easy solution, ban Rangers from playing home games in their own grounds for a year, or depending on what the investigation finds out, give them a penalty of several games forfeited in the Scottish league, or pay a tax on all home games to cover damages caused by the thugs. It's too easy to say that they are not Rangers fans. The same goes for any other football team from Scotland or England.
In fact a tax on all ticket sales on clubs known to promote violence can be justified to pay for a massive police or army security force at any location where trouble can build up. Why should the city of Manchester be out of pocket when neither team belongs to Manchester.
Easy solution, ban Rangers from playing home games in their own grounds for a year, or depending on what the investigation finds out, give them a penalty of several games forfeited in the Scottish league, or pay a tax on all home games to cover damages caused by the thugs. It's too easy to say that they are not Rangers fans. The same goes for any other football team from Scotland or England.
In fact a tax on all ticket sales on clubs known to promote violence can be justified to pay for a massive police or army security force at any location where trouble can build up. Why should the city of Manchester be out of pocket when neither team belongs to Manchester.
Posted by: Strathturret, Montrose on 12:01am Fri 16 May 08
Its called democracy. If the other members of an association wish to vote out a member they can do so. All we need is the members of the SPL to vote the old firm out of the league. What will they do? Play each other 36 times a season? They would go bust. And we could start Scottish football with a clean sheet of paper.
Its called democracy. If the other members of an association wish to vote out a member they can do so. All we need is the members of the SPL to vote the old firm out of the league. What will they do? Play each other 36 times a season? They would go bust. And we could start Scottish football with a clean sheet of paper.
Posted by: LEGION, ALBA on 12:05am Fri 16 May 08
So.....The Auld Scum want tae join the Premiership.......LO
L
So.....The Auld Scum want tae join the Premiership.......LO
L
Posted by: megz, glasgow on 12:16am Fri 16 May 08
Graham Spiers (by far the best sports journalist in the country) has produced the most honest and unbiased report
http://www.timesonli
ne.co.uk/tol/sport/f
ootball/scotland/art
icle3939176.ece
Unfortunately in this country the media try to brush things like this under the carpet. With the quality of reporting it is no wonder most papers sales have fallen by almost 50%!
Graham Spiers (by far the best sports journalist in the country) has produced the most honest and unbiased report
http://www.timesonli
ne.co.uk/tol/sport/f
ootball/scotland/art
icle3939176.ece
Unfortunately in this country the media try to brush things like this under the carpet. With the quality of reporting it is no wonder most papers sales have fallen by almost 50%!
Posted by: Rock Lobster, North o the Tay on 12:20am Fri 16 May 08
Gordon Broon said the trouble could cost England the right to hold the 2018 World Cup.
Eh.
Gordon Broon said the trouble could cost England the right to hold the 2018 World Cup.
Eh.
Posted by: aussie will, sydney on 12:27am Fri 16 May 08
Why Strathturret are you throwing celtic fans in with that lot in Manchester. Celtic took 80,000 fans to seville and won awards from fifa and uefa for thier behaviour. Countless English sides invite our club and its supporters south every year for friendlies and testimonials because we bring thousands of fans to these events without trouble.. I am not saying all celtic fans are angels, but we are good for business for a lot of clubs in scotland, south of the border and abroad...
Why Strathturret are you throwing celtic fans in with that lot in Manchester. Celtic took 80,000 fans to seville and won awards from fifa and uefa for thier behaviour. Countless English sides invite our club and its supporters south every year for friendlies and testimonials because we bring thousands of fans to these events without trouble.. I am not saying all celtic fans are angels, but we are good for business for a lot of clubs in scotland, south of the border and abroad...
Posted by: aussie will, sydney on 12:28am Fri 16 May 08
Why Strathturret are you throwing celtic fans in with that lot in Manchester. Celtic took 80,000 fans to seville and won awards from fifa and uefa for thier behaviour. Countless English sides invite our club and its supporters south every year for friendlies and testimonials because we bring thousands of fans to these events without trouble.. I am not saying all celtic fans are angels, but we are good for business for a lot of clubs in scotland, south of the border and abroad...
Why Strathturret are you throwing celtic fans in with that lot in Manchester. Celtic took 80,000 fans to seville and won awards from fifa and uefa for thier behaviour. Countless English sides invite our club and its supporters south every year for friendlies and testimonials because we bring thousands of fans to these events without trouble.. I am not saying all celtic fans are angels, but we are good for business for a lot of clubs in scotland, south of the border and abroad...
Posted by: Graham, Glasgow on 12:34am Fri 16 May 08
Nothing better than a fool (full) enquiry. Better than no enquiry. Will it be paid for from the 30 Billion grant or from a special fund for fool enquiries![bold]bold[/bold]
Nothing better than a fool (full) enquiry. Better than no enquiry. Will it be paid for from the 30 Billion grant or from a special fund for fool enquiries!
Posted by: Bob Mackay, Glasgow on 12:46am Fri 16 May 08
Before venting your spleen on various subsiduary issues, please note the above article is highly acccurate. I left the Picccadilly site because of the level off drunkeness, lack of toilets and the single screen for 50,000. There were "fans" with no colours which was very weird given the level of colourful apparell every Rangers fan i knew had.
The police on asking advised they had no intention of having the bins emptied; plenty of us knew the mess would be a newspaper headline.
I had a great time otherwise as did most of the 200,00and got home safe after a great day.....to see the footage. Sickening to see the police officer attacked. There is no excuse; although letting 50,000 people drink for 8 hours and then say you cant see your teams final; what did they expect would happen??Fixing t hat screen should have been NUMBER ONE public order precaution, its criminally negligent the thugs were given an excuse.
All identifiable thugs ( surely most can be put on a national rogues gallery to find them?)must be prosecuted and named and shamed- i'll bet the majority were organised casuals, nothing to do with the 199,000 of us who had a carnival day out.
Lastly, Gordon Brown; couldnt be bothered to come to the final but the first rentagob to condemn Rangers fans in general. Worried about Englands world cup chances- you have less backbone than the mindless thugs prime minister.
Before venting your spleen on various subsiduary issues, please note the above article is highly acccurate. I left the Picccadilly site because of the level off drunkeness, lack of toilets and the single screen for 50,000. There were "fans" with no colours which was very weird given the level of colourful apparell every Rangers fan i knew had.
The police on asking advised they had no intention of having the bins emptied; plenty of us knew the mess would be a newspaper headline.
I had a great time otherwise as did most of the 200,00and got home safe after a great day.....to see the footage. Sickening to see the police officer attacked. There is no excuse; although letting 50,000 people drink for 8 hours and then say you cant see your teams final; what did they expect would happen??Fixing t hat screen should have been NUMBER ONE public order precaution, its criminally negligent the thugs were given an excuse.
All identifiable thugs ( surely most can be put on a national rogues gallery to find them?)must be prosecuted and named and shamed- i'll bet the majority were organised casuals, nothing to do with the 199,000 of us who had a carnival day out.
Lastly, Gordon Brown; couldnt be bothered to come to the final but the first rentagob to condemn Rangers fans in general. Worried about Englands world cup chances- you have less backbone than the mindless thugs prime minister.
Posted by: Graham, Glasgow on 1:14am Fri 16 May 08
Bob,12:26. I would not go to any football final. Its only for the brain dead. Stay at home with your family and get a life. Were you collecting your benefits from the state to subsdise your drunken football journey to La La Land! The polis were waiting for you.[bold]bold[/bold]
Bob,12:26. I would not go to any football final. Its only for the brain dead. Stay at home with your family and get a life. Were you collecting your benefits from the state to subsdise your drunken football journey to La La Land! The polis were waiting for you.
Posted by: Jimmythejinx, Railway Cuttings on 1:19am Fri 16 May 08
Once again guys you give us all a brass neck. History repeating itself as your fathers behaved in the self same way in Barcelona when you last played in the final. That occasion of course was the fault of the Spanish police. This time it was the fault of the Manchester police. You have let your club down, you have let Scotland down and worst of all you have let me, Jimmy the Jinx down.
Enjoy your quadruple bypass.
;-}
Once again guys you give us all a brass neck. History repeating itself as your fathers behaved in the self same way in Barcelona when you last played in the final. That occasion of course was the fault of the Spanish police. This time it was the fault of the Manchester police. You have let your club down, you have let Scotland down and worst of all you have let me, Jimmy the Jinx down.
Enjoy your quadruple bypass.
;-}
Posted by: Graham, Glasgow on 1:20am Fri 16 May 08
Sorry bob I meant 12:46am.[bold]bold[/bold]
Sorry bob I meant 12:46am.
Posted by: yanic, nairn on 1:29am Fri 16 May 08
Gordon Brown rightly condemns the behaviour of Rangers fans, who for a long time have been an absolute disgrace (No I am not a Celtic fan). But I am still waiting for him to condemn the regular disgusting behaviour of English fans (Club and Country) who must surely also be jeopardising his (Mr Gazza Bean's) teams chances of staging the world cup.
Last year in Spain this same bunch of proms rejects disgraced Scotland and there were calls then for the SFA to take action and ban Rangers from representing (Disgracing)Scotland in Europe. Had these warnings been heeded our nation would not have been embarrassed, policemen would not have been hurt, a Russian fan would not have been stabbed, a woman in her car would not have been attacked, by this same bunch of Neds. It is time for the SFA to wake up and ban Rangers from Europe (Until the fan culture at the club matures to a point where it is as fit as the team to represent Scotland) before UEFA ban Scotland and all our teams.
Gordon Brown rightly condemns the behaviour of Rangers fans, who for a long time have been an absolute disgrace (No I am not a Celtic fan). But I am still waiting for him to condemn the regular disgusting behaviour of English fans (Club and Country) who must surely also be jeopardising his (Mr Gazza Bean's) teams chances of staging the world cup.
Last year in Spain this same bunch of proms rejects disgraced Scotland and there were calls then for the SFA to take action and ban Rangers from representing (Disgracing)Scotland in Europe. Had these warnings been heeded our nation would not have been embarrassed, policemen would not have been hurt, a Russian fan would not have been stabbed, a woman in her car would not have been attacked, by this same bunch of Neds. It is time for the SFA to wake up and ban Rangers from Europe (Until the fan culture at the club matures to a point where it is as fit as the team to represent Scotland) before UEFA ban Scotland and all our teams.
Posted by: Steve A, Glasgow on 1:35am Fri 16 May 08
[quote][bold]Strathturret[/bold] wrote:
Of course Rangers fans have form. In their last European final, which they won in Barcelona, they rioted. Sending 100,000 + fans into a 'foreign' city and spending all day drinking alcohol is surely a recipe for trouble. Rangers and Celtic are evil brands. We should put both out of business.[/quote] SPOT ON!
They should never be allowed to make the people of Scotland ashamed ever again!
Strathturret wrote:
Of course Rangers fans have form. In their last European final, which they won in Barcelona, they rioted. Sending 100,000 + fans into a 'foreign' city and spending all day drinking alcohol is surely a recipe for trouble. Rangers and Celtic are evil brands. We should put both out of business.
SPOT ON!
They should never be allowed to make the people of Scotland ashamed ever again!
Posted by: Jimmy fae the West, Embra on 1:53am Fri 16 May 08
[quote][bold]Graham[/bold] wrote:
Nothing better than a fool (full) enquiry. Better than no enquiry. Will it be paid for from the 30 Billion grant or from a special fund for fool enquiries![bold]bold[/bold] [/quote] I think you will find that all riots in Madchester are not devolved to the Scottish government but are reserved by Westminster. You must be reading the "Alexander Dependency book of parliament rules for Dummies"?
Graham wrote:
Nothing better than a fool (full) enquiry. Better than no enquiry. Will it be paid for from the 30 Billion grant or from a special fund for fool enquiries!
I think you will find that all riots in Madchester are not devolved to the Scottish government but are reserved by Westminster. You must be reading the "Alexander Dependency book of parliament rules for Dummies"?
Posted by: Wullie, Aberdeen on 2:20am Fri 16 May 08
I posted this comment yesterday.
God Almighty. I turned on the Scottish news this evening and to my amazement and horror, I saw 120.000 ranger fans in Manchester strutting around the city like peacocks, beating their breasts to prove how '' gallus '' they are. Talk about delusional. It was like a neds convention. There was two basic types. The thin, pasty faced, weasel looking, undernourished rangers fan. The second type was the fat, bald with the tattoo on the arms. with a fag in one hand and a can of tennents lager in the other hand. Its funny how as soon as the sun shines for 5 minutes, they strip off their shirts and show off to the world their beer bellys. A pretty ugly sight I might add. I couldnt understand a word they said, they spoke about 500 words per minute.Slow down for Gods sake.
For people who like football , its amazing how these celtic and rangers savages are so unathletic, spending their whole day down the boozer. Armchair football fans more like. I coudnt believe the egotism, arrogance and delusion of these ranger fans '' we arra people.'' they shouted and sreamed. Of course the celtic,rangers sectarianism, which is just racism is never, ever mentioned. What a suprise.
I knew Saint Petersburg would stuff the English team, rangers. All the bookies told me. So I rushed down to William Hill and won quite a lot of money. The game was dull, dull ,dull. The rangers players couldnt pass or dribble. It was pathetic. Scottish football has always been like that, bit like the Faroes foootball league without the puffins and seagulls, although rangers players play like puffins. Saint Petersburg versus rangers, men against boys, more like men against 10 year old girls. Anyway the best team won. Well done St Petersburg and congratulations to Dick Advocat. HUZZAH !!
Ps . They all drone on and on about rangers being a Scottish team. I didnt see any Scottish flags. Rangers should be playing in the English league and celtic should be playing in the Irish league.
I posted this comment yesterday.
God Almighty. I turned on the Scottish news this evening and to my amazement and horror, I saw 120.000 ranger fans in Manchester strutting around the city like peacocks, beating their breasts to prove how '' gallus '' they are. Talk about delusional. It was like a neds convention. There was two basic types. The thin, pasty faced, weasel looking, undernourished rangers fan. The second type was the fat, bald with the tattoo on the arms. with a fag in one hand and a can of tennents lager in the other hand. Its funny how as soon as the sun shines for 5 minutes, they strip off their shirts and show off to the world their beer bellys. A pretty ugly sight I might add. I couldnt understand a word they said, they spoke about 500 words per minute.Slow down for Gods sake.
For people who like football , its amazing how these celtic and rangers savages are so unathletic, spending their whole day down the boozer. Armchair football fans more like. I coudnt believe the egotism, arrogance and delusion of these ranger fans '' we arra people.'' they shouted and sreamed. Of course the celtic,rangers sectarianism, which is just racism is never, ever mentioned. What a suprise.
I knew Saint Petersburg would stuff the English team, rangers. All the bookies told me. So I rushed down to William Hill and won quite a lot of money. The game was dull, dull ,dull. The rangers players couldnt pass or dribble. It was pathetic. Scottish football has always been like that, bit like the Faroes foootball league without the puffins and seagulls, although rangers players play like puffins. Saint Petersburg versus rangers, men against boys, more like men against 10 year old girls. Anyway the best team won. Well done St Petersburg and congratulations to Dick Advocat. HUZZAH !!
Ps . They all drone on and on about rangers being a Scottish team. I didnt see any Scottish flags. Rangers should be playing in the English league and celtic should be playing in the Irish league.
Posted by: jonny bond, glasgow on 2:39am Fri 16 May 08
The first thing I saw in terms of incidents was the police on bbc behaving like thugs I saw two fans standing in the middle of a street attacked by a shield weilding moron. Now I dont know if the shield wielding moron was a friend of the cop that was set upon or if the cop was set upon for something he did and so deserved it. All I know is that it is not the polices job to actively try to prevent fans from seeing the match after giving a mere 5 minutes notice that the screen would not be on for the match after telling people all day to relax and stay where they were the match would definately be on. A shocking show from the mancs who lived up to their shocking policing reputation as shown on that gangs program where they admitted they were scared of certain gangs in the city. Fortunately none of the gang members in question were on the streets of manchester yesterday as there were no shootings.
The first thing I saw in terms of incidents was the police on bbc behaving like thugs I saw two fans standing in the middle of a street attacked by a shield weilding moron. Now I dont know if the shield wielding moron was a friend of the cop that was set upon or if the cop was set upon for something he did and so deserved it. All I know is that it is not the polices job to actively try to prevent fans from seeing the match after giving a mere 5 minutes notice that the screen would not be on for the match after telling people all day to relax and stay where they were the match would definately be on. A shocking show from the mancs who lived up to their shocking policing reputation as shown on that gangs program where they admitted they were scared of certain gangs in the city. Fortunately none of the gang members in question were on the streets of manchester yesterday as there were no shootings.
Posted by: Joanna, Oregon on 2:47am Fri 16 May 08
I am sick of comments of people taking the moral high ground because their are English hooligans, Manchester gangs etc etc. Yes it was deplorable but its not the fault of Rangers FC, nor is it the fault of Glasgwegians, Scots, U.K or anyone else other than that group of people. People are responsible for their own actions. Nor should those mindless idiots blame Manchester blah blah blah.
p.s Not that I think it excuses it in any way but the screens worked fine they were turned off on purpose.
I am sick of comments of people taking the moral high ground because their are English hooligans, Manchester gangs etc etc. Yes it was deplorable but its not the fault of Rangers FC, nor is it the fault of Glasgwegians, Scots, U.K or anyone else other than that group of people. People are responsible for their own actions. Nor should those mindless idiots blame Manchester blah blah blah.
p.s Not that I think it excuses it in any way but the screens worked fine they were turned off on purpose.
Posted by: Joanna, Oregon on 2:48am Fri 16 May 08
sp. there are
Posted by: Proud to be Scottish, Glasgow on 3:55am Fri 16 May 08
Dear, dear - some are getting their knickers in a right twist here.
We need to get this into prespective.
Rangers have taken 10 000's of fans all over Europe this year with no trouble or arrests.
150 000 supporters were in Manchester drinking all day long - then the match they came to see wasn't shown. Of course a few hotheads (what proportion of the total support behaved in this innapropriate way? - 1% - 2% tops?) lost the plot.
Would be the same story with fans of any club.
The biggest question this raises is the strong link between getting absolutely hammered and 'enjoying' oursleves in Scottish culture.
Salmond will gain nothing by blaming others - this is a Scottish problem.
Dear, dear - some are getting their knickers in a right twist here.
We need to get this into prespective.
Rangers have taken 10 000's of fans all over Europe this year with no trouble or arrests.
150 000 supporters were in Manchester drinking all day long - then the match they came to see wasn't shown. Of course a few hotheads (what proportion of the total support behaved in this innapropriate way? - 1% - 2% tops?) lost the plot.
Would be the same story with fans of any club.
The biggest question this raises is the strong link between getting absolutely hammered and 'enjoying' oursleves in Scottish culture.
Salmond will gain nothing by blaming others - this is a Scottish problem.
Posted by: Beeree, Local on 5:48am Fri 16 May 08
Where do you get these intellectual pigmies?
A few petty criminals cause trouble thieving & fighting out of a crowd of 150k and a sea of angst bursts upon this thread.
I've seen similar at the Derby & Royal Ascot; at FA, SFA, & World Cup finals. The parasites will always be with us.
Where do you get these intellectual pigmies?
A few petty criminals cause trouble thieving & fighting out of a crowd of 150k and a sea of angst bursts upon this thread.
I've seen similar at the Derby & Royal Ascot; at FA, SFA, & World Cup finals. The parasites will always be with us.
Posted by: baraevans, London on 5:53am Fri 16 May 08
Your coverage is a disgrace and your politicians are a disgrace. Why don't you all just come out and say that what happened was disgusting and completely unacceptable rather than couching it in terms of it being only a small number of people (not what the inconvenient videos show, by the way).
The videos show the true face of Scotland. You can strut around pretending to be a sophisticated European country but the truth is yobbery, provincialism and alcoholism. I will always remember travelling by train from Glasgow to London and a drunken Scottish businessman vomitted on the carpet. That's the true Scotland. For all our sakes you should leave the Union.
Your coverage is a disgrace and your politicians are a disgrace. Why don't you all just come out and say that what happened was disgusting and completely unacceptable rather than couching it in terms of it being only a small number of people (not what the inconvenient videos show, by the way).
The videos show the true face of Scotland. You can strut around pretending to be a sophisticated European country but the truth is yobbery, provincialism and alcoholism. I will always remember travelling by train from Glasgow to London and a drunken Scottish businessman vomitted on the carpet. That's the true Scotland. For all our sakes you should leave the Union.
Posted by: Joanna, Oregon on 6:22am Fri 16 May 08
and I have stood in a queue in London and been harrassed by a drugged up Londoner, harrassed by a mob in Leeds and seen much more. I will not generalise and say all English are like that so why class me in the same terms as those Scots......and are they Scots? People associate themselves with Rangers all over the world these people could well be your own English countrymen. Either way get off your soap boxes and we would gladly leave the union but you lot couldn't pay for everything without us it seems!
and I have stood in a queue in London and been harrassed by a drugged up Londoner, harrassed by a mob in Leeds and seen much more. I will not generalise and say all English are like that so why class me in the same terms as those Scots......and are they Scots? People associate themselves with Rangers all over the world these people could well be your own English countrymen. Either way get off your soap boxes and we would gladly leave the union but you lot couldn't pay for everything without us it seems!
Posted by: Bryce Curdy, Lanarkshire on 6:31am Fri 16 May 08
Myth 1 - this is an 'Old Firm' problem. No it's not. This is a Rangers problem. When Celtic went to Seville there were no arrests on matchday (one arrest in total) and the Celtic fans were given awards from both UEFA and FIFA. The contrast could not be greater.
Myth 2 - it is a tiny minority of fans who are to blame. Sadly not true; it is a very significant and large minority.
Myth 3 - the behaviour of Rangers fans had beem exemplery in earlier rounds. I wonder what the people of Barcelona would think of that. They were so disgusted that the whole front page of their daily newspaper was devoted to the repulsive behaviour of 'the people'. Unprecedented to my knowledge.
The lies, excuses, denial and cover-up were all about to begin until we were presented with the shocking video evidence. Animals. 'A permanent embarrassment and occasional disgrace' is being kind.
Myth 1 - this is an 'Old Firm' problem. No it's not. This is a Rangers problem. When Celtic went to Seville there were no arrests on matchday (one arrest in total) and the Celtic fans were given awards from both UEFA and FIFA. The contrast could not be greater.
Myth 2 - it is a tiny minority of fans who are to blame. Sadly not true; it is a very significant and large minority.
Myth 3 - the behaviour of Rangers fans had beem exemplery in earlier rounds. I wonder what the people of Barcelona would think of that. They were so disgusted that the whole front page of their daily newspaper was devoted to the repulsive behaviour of 'the people'. Unprecedented to my knowledge.
The lies, excuses, denial and cover-up were all about to begin until we were presented with the shocking video evidence. Animals. 'A permanent embarrassment and occasional disgrace' is being kind.
Posted by: george alexander, north lanarkshire on 6:48am Fri 16 May 08
PTBS wrote:
[quote]Would be the same story with fans of any club.
The biggest question this raises is the strong link between getting absolutely hammered and 'enjoying' oursleves in Scottish culture.
Salmond will gain nothing by blaming others - this is a Scottish problem.[/quote]
I'm afraid you are wrong PYBS, I have family members who support either half of the old firm and I have no hesitation in highlighting the exemplary record of celtic fans, and indeed every other group of fans including the national team..............it would not have been the same story.
This is a Scottish problem in so much as the people who sustain much of the Northern irish sectarianism are Scottish. However these people are overwhelmingly Unionist with a much smaller number of Irish Republicans.
These people do not represent nor are they tolerated by the greater mass of Scots who abhor everything they stand for. Rangers have to an extent embraced this culture and are reaping the rewards. I have called the Union flag bunting and to many who frequent ibrox it is. However there are also a significant number of fans, those alluded to by Spiers, for whom the Union flag is an extension of the sectarian/Unionist imperialism.
This heady mix of aggression, hate for others and defiant militarism is dangerous. To suggest that this is a Scottish problem is an insult to the nation.
This is actually the sinister underbelly of Unionism, the BNP are it's English cousins.............
......
PTBS wrote:
Would be the same story with fans of any club.
The biggest question this raises is the strong link between getting absolutely hammered and 'enjoying' oursleves in Scottish culture.
Salmond will gain nothing by blaming others - this is a Scottish problem.
I'm afraid you are wrong PYBS, I have family members who support either half of the old firm and I have no hesitation in highlighting the exemplary record of celtic fans, and indeed every other group of fans including the national team..............it would not have been the same story.
This is a Scottish problem in so much as the people who sustain much of the Northern irish sectarianism are Scottish. However these people are overwhelmingly Unionist with a much smaller number of Irish Republicans.
These people do not represent nor are they tolerated by the greater mass of Scots who abhor everything they stand for. Rangers have to an extent embraced this culture and are reaping the rewards. I have called the Union flag bunting and to many who frequent ibrox it is. However there are also a significant number of fans, those alluded to by Spiers, for whom the Union flag is an extension of the sectarian/Unionist imperialism.
This heady mix of aggression, hate for others and defiant militarism is dangerous. To suggest that this is a Scottish problem is an insult to the nation.
This is actually the sinister underbelly of Unionism, the BNP are it's English cousins.............
......
Posted by: The Laird, Germany on 6:59am Fri 16 May 08
This utter disgrace is all over the European news channels and from what I can see, they broadcast different footage than that which was sanitised for broadcast in the UK. Why was this mindless violence not shown in it fullest gorry. Maybe a few people would sit up and take notice. Simply animals. Live rounds would not have been out of place.
The images are sufficiently clear to easily identify a large number of the culprits and I hope that anyone who recognises them has no qualms about contacting the police.
This utter disgrace is all over the European news channels and from what I can see, they broadcast different footage than that which was sanitised for broadcast in the UK. Why was this mindless violence not shown in it fullest gorry. Maybe a few people would sit up and take notice. Simply animals. Live rounds would not have been out of place.
The images are sufficiently clear to easily identify a large number of the culprits and I hope that anyone who recognises them has no qualms about contacting the police.
Posted by: Joanna, Oregon on 7:01am Fri 16 May 08
[quote][bold]Bryce Curdy[/bold] wrote:
Myth 1 - this is an 'Old Firm' problem. No it's not. This is a Rangers problem. When Celtic went to Seville there were no arrests on matchday (one arrest in total) and the Celtic fans were given awards from both UEFA and FIFA. The contrast could not be greater. Myth 2 - it is a tiny minority of fans who are to blame. Sadly not true; it is a very significant and large minority. Myth 3 - the behaviour of Rangers fans had beem exemplery in earlier rounds. I wonder what the people of Barcelona would think of that. They were so disgusted that the whole front page of their daily newspaper was devoted to the repulsive behaviour of 'the people'. Unprecedented to my knowledge. The lies, excuses, denial and cover-up were all about to begin until we were presented with the shocking video evidence. Animals. 'A permanent embarrassment and occasional disgrace' is being kind.[/quote] So why are English fans segregated when travelling? Has there only ever been one Celtic fan arrested in the history of the club? Have we not seen Italian fans attacking police? Turkish supporters rioting? They sicken me but there are factions everywhere.
Bryce Curdy wrote:
Myth 1 - this is an 'Old Firm' problem. No it's not. This is a Rangers problem. When Celtic went to Seville there were no arrests on matchday (one arrest in total) and the Celtic fans were given awards from both UEFA and FIFA. The contrast could not be greater. Myth 2 - it is a tiny minority of fans who are to blame. Sadly not true; it is a very significant and large minority. Myth 3 - the behaviour of Rangers fans had beem exemplery in earlier rounds. I wonder what the people of Barcelona would think of that. They were so disgusted that the whole front page of their daily newspaper was devoted to the repulsive behaviour of 'the people'. Unprecedented to my knowledge. The lies, excuses, denial and cover-up were all about to begin until we were presented with the shocking video evidence. Animals. 'A permanent embarrassment and occasional disgrace' is being kind.
So why are English fans segregated when travelling? Has there only ever been one Celtic fan arrested in the history of the club? Have we not seen Italian fans attacking police? Turkish supporters rioting? They sicken me but there are factions everywhere.
Posted by: jim, Glasgow on 7:19am Fri 16 May 08
Manchester couldnt cope with it,most gers had a fantastic time.i was there.its been blown all out of proportion,well done rangers.
Manchester couldnt cope with it,most gers had a fantastic time.i was there.its been blown all out of proportion,well done rangers.
Posted by: troll, pomona on 7:29am Fri 16 May 08
All the fans i saw on tv were waving union jacks.
I did not see any fans with scottish flags, think they were all MI5 plants trying to give scotland a bad name.
All the fans i saw on tv were waving union jacks.
I did not see any fans with scottish flags, think they were all MI5 plants trying to give scotland a bad name.
Posted by: redandwhitehoops on 7:34am Fri 16 May 08
The footage suggests it was a lot more than 200 rangers fans rioting.
The media up here are trying to brush it under the carpet, by underplaying it.
When they showed the crowds before the match on Wednesdays News, the sound had to be continually turned down everytime a song broke out, to prevent the sectarian bile being heard and to promote the myth that it was a nice bunch of guys out for a happy party in Manchester. Even yesterday morning, it was all being played down, with talk of only 46 arrests and minority involvement.
The reason for the low arrest numbers is the Riot Police were scared and ran away!!. That's Riot Police, trained to deal with riots. It must have been bad.
It's time for Scotland to stand up to this problem, instead of sooking up to David Murray and cuddly Rangers. Scotland's Shame
The footage suggests it was a lot more than 200 rangers fans rioting.
The media up here are trying to brush it under the carpet, by underplaying it.
When they showed the crowds before the match on Wednesdays News, the sound had to be continually turned down everytime a song broke out, to prevent the sectarian bile being heard and to promote the myth that it was a nice bunch of guys out for a happy party in Manchester. Even yesterday morning, it was all being played down, with talk of only 46 arrests and minority involvement.
The reason for the low arrest numbers is the Riot Police were scared and ran away!!. That's Riot Police, trained to deal with riots. It must have been bad.
It's time for Scotland to stand up to this problem, instead of sooking up to David Murray and cuddly Rangers. Scotland's Shame
Posted by: Grandpaw, Glasgow on 7:51am Fri 16 May 08
Why anyone would wish to be associated with [bold]any[/bold] football club, whose "supporters" behave in such a way, is quite beyond me.
Why anyone would wish to be associated with
any football club, whose "supporters" behave in such a way, is quite beyond me.
Posted by: Oscar on 7:54am Fri 16 May 08
The one fact that comes out of this, is that we as a nation have an overwhelmingly unhealthy obsession with football. No other nation has this level of slavish devotion to one sport. Why is that?
The one fact that comes out of this, is that we as a nation have an overwhelmingly unhealthy obsession with football. No other nation has this level of slavish devotion to one sport. Why is that?
Posted by: Rev. S. Campbell, Bath on 8:00am Fri 16 May 08
[quote]Fixing that screen should have been NUMBER ONE public order precaution[/quote]
They tried to fix the screen. The technicians were forced to retreat under a hail of bottles and missiles.
Fixing that screen should have been NUMBER ONE public order precaution
They tried to fix the screen. The technicians were forced to retreat under a hail of bottles and missiles.
Posted by: Rev. S. Campbell, Bath on 8:01am Fri 16 May 08
[quote][bold]Oscar[/bold] wrote:
The one fact that comes out of this, is that we as a nation have an overwhelmingly unhealthy obsession with football. No other nation has this level of slavish devotion to one sport. Why is that?[/quote] Because football is wonderful. There's nothing unhealthy about our feelings towards football, the unhealthy thing is our attitude towards ancient Irish history. Aberdeen fans are welcome back in Gothenburg any day.
Oscar wrote:
The one fact that comes out of this, is that we as a nation have an overwhelmingly unhealthy obsession with football. No other nation has this level of slavish devotion to one sport. Why is that?
Because football is wonderful. There's nothing unhealthy about our feelings towards football, the unhealthy thing is our attitude towards ancient Irish history. Aberdeen fans are welcome back in Gothenburg any day.
Posted by: smack, Glasgow on 8:16am Fri 16 May 08
[quote][bold]Colin B[/bold] wrote:
Some very naive , ill considered comments above- The 1972 Franco's fascist police werea rguably better than Greater manchester's. "Evil brands", "put them out of business"- Strathturret seems to be advocating a police state. George Alexander seems to think Rangers can gag fans vocal chords. Our police forces must be accountable. Even today West Midland Police ( whose serious crime squad had to be disbanded for er, well crime eg falsifying confession in back of patrol cars) had to apolgise the pay libel dmaages to Channel 4 for trying to gag a mosque documentary No police officers were disciplined or charged fro killing Jean Charles De menezes While violence by the fans can't be condoned- anger is a natural human reaction to being wronged- the Police need to understand this- setting a police dog on injured, incapaciated and unconscious fan carried by many newpapers is not acceptable Asst Chief Con Curran should not have commented while people were in custody, awaiting charge. Why were the riot squad in situ before the screen failed?. In 18 European ties in Glasgow and overseas no arrests/violence so why in Manchester?- the Rangers fans who misbehaved must bear responsibility but the repeated failures of our public sectors staff and police must also be brought under more scrutiny. That the screens were not tested would appear to be gross negligence.[/quote] Another quality post form the moronic Colin B, who is showing his true colours, lets blame everyone else! And why oh why are we pulling Celtic into an auld firm debate on fan behaviour, thought Rangers were playing the other night!
Colin B wrote:
Some very naive , ill considered comments above- The 1972 Franco's fascist police werea rguably better than Greater manchester's. "Evil brands", "put them out of business"- Strathturret seems to be advocating a police state. George Alexander seems to think Rangers can gag fans vocal chords. Our police forces must be accountable. Even today West Midland Police ( whose serious crime squad had to be disbanded for er, well crime eg falsifying confession in back of patrol cars) had to apolgise the pay libel dmaages to Channel 4 for trying to gag a mosque documentary No police officers were disciplined or charged fro killing Jean Charles De menezes While violence by the fans can't be condoned- anger is a natural human reaction to being wronged- the Police need to understand this- setting a police dog on injured, incapaciated and unconscious fan carried by many newpapers is not acceptable Asst Chief Con Curran should not have commented while people were in custody, awaiting charge. Why were the riot squad in situ before the screen failed?. In 18 European ties in Glasgow and overseas no arrests/violence so why in Manchester?- the Rangers fans who misbehaved must bear responsibility but the repeated failures of our public sectors staff and police must also be brought under more scrutiny. That the screens were not tested would appear to be gross negligence.
Another quality post form the moronic Colin B, who is showing his true colours, lets blame everyone else! And why oh why are we pulling Celtic into an auld firm debate on fan behaviour, thought Rangers were playing the other night!
Posted by: Van Helsing - Nat Slayer, Lanarkshire on 8:21am Fri 16 May 08
Forget the wattered down reporting of the Scottish press. Instead have a read at the Manchester Evening News website for the views of the Manchester people. Real comments from the people who had to live there this week. Scotland's shame - again.
Forget the wattered down reporting of the Scottish press. Instead have a read at the Manchester Evening News website for the views of the Manchester people. Real comments from the people who had to live there this week. Scotland's shame - again.
Posted by: Sam, somewhereelse on 8:21am Fri 16 May 08
'getting absolutely hammered'
All this is put down to drinking all day. No doubt that has an impact on the level of moronic behaviour of fans an 'hangers on'. But hang on a minute... I go to rugby matches. Rugby supporters could drink football supporters under the table, so please, show me ANY instance of fans battling with police or each other at ANY rugby match. I have travelled all over the place to watch Scotland and Glasgow, and when we arrive in the city where the game is we head straight for the pub to drink with the opposing team fans. Then because our good behaviiour is well known, we are allowed to drink in the stadiums. The stadiums are mixed. There is no segregation of fans. The violence that follows football is a cultural thing. A lot of it is encouraged by political groups such as BNP, and the sectarian gangs from Northern Ireland (in the case of both Celtic and Rangers) With a lot of them it is bred into them. As a Scot living in NI, I see this on a regular basis. Dreading July already......
'getting absolutely hammered'
All this is put down to drinking all day. No doubt that has an impact on the level of moronic behaviour of fans an 'hangers on'. But hang on a minute... I go to rugby matches. Rugby supporters could drink football supporters under the table, so please, show me ANY instance of fans battling with police or each other at ANY rugby match. I have travelled all over the place to watch Scotland and Glasgow, and when we arrive in the city where the game is we head straight for the pub to drink with the opposing team fans. Then because our good behaviiour is well known, we are allowed to drink in the stadiums. The stadiums are mixed. There is no segregation of fans. The violence that follows football is a cultural thing. A lot of it is encouraged by political groups such as BNP, and the sectarian gangs from Northern Ireland (in the case of both Celtic and Rangers) With a lot of them it is bred into them. As a Scot living in NI, I see this on a regular basis. Dreading July already......
Posted by: mica, Fife on 8:25am Fri 16 May 08
[quote][bold]jim[/bold] wrote:
Manchester couldnt cope with it,most gers had a fantastic time.i was there.its been blown all out of proportion,well done rangers.[/quote] Im sure the police chief who was attacked for no reason with about 20 odd rangers fans jumping on him and kicking him while he was on the ground would not agree with you there and neither would the young girl stuck in her car while surrounded by these scum who were attacking her car and terrifying the life out of her. What a disgrace.... And as for anyone pulling celtic into this too.... I too would comment on the fact that Celtic fans in Seville, who also were defeated, did not go on to put Scottish football to shame.
jim wrote:
Manchester couldnt cope with it,most gers had a fantastic time.i was there.its been blown all out of proportion,well done rangers.
Im sure the police chief who was attacked for no reason with about 20 odd rangers fans jumping on him and kicking him while he was on the ground would not agree with you there and neither would the young girl stuck in her car while surrounded by these scum who were attacking her car and terrifying the life out of her. What a disgrace.... And as for anyone pulling celtic into this too.... I too would comment on the fact that Celtic fans in Seville, who also were defeated, did not go on to put Scottish football to shame.
Posted by: Tony88, Glasgow on 8:37am Fri 16 May 08
The fact of the matter is that this was a baying mob, singing the usual sectarian filth and making a complete **** of themselves again. The tv scenes speak for themselves, hundreds of drunken louts chasing the police down the street. The one officer who went to ground was very lucky he managed to get to his feet again. I thought he was going to be kicked to death by these savages. The usual 'police were heavy-handed' mantra is spewed out by these so-called UNIONISTS everywhere they go. Plain fact is they simply do not know how to behave in a civilised manner. No wonder, two years ago, Manchester police railled against this mob coming down to their city for a 'friendly'. When I heard that Rangers had qualified for the final in Manchester my first thought was ' what have the good people of Manchester done to deserve this'. The sectarian savages proved me right. Rangers Football Club has to take some responsibiltiy here. They allow triumphalist tunes and songs to be bellowed over the tannoys before every match, playing up to the narrow minded, bigotted mob (don't give me this 'it's a minority crap), it's the vast majority who bellow out that they are 'up to their knees in fenian blood'. RFC should be closed down for good.
The fact of the matter is that this was a baying mob, singing the usual sectarian filth and making a complete **** of themselves again. The tv scenes speak for themselves, hundreds of drunken louts chasing the police down the street. The one officer who went to ground was very lucky he managed to get to his feet again. I thought he was going to be kicked to death by these savages. The usual 'police were heavy-handed' mantra is spewed out by these so-called UNIONISTS everywhere they go. Plain fact is they simply do not know how to behave in a civilised manner. No wonder, two years ago, Manchester police railled against this mob coming down to their city for a 'friendly'. When I heard that Rangers had qualified for the final in Manchester my first thought was ' what have the good people of Manchester done to deserve this'. The sectarian savages proved me right. Rangers Football Club has to take some responsibiltiy here. They allow triumphalist tunes and songs to be bellowed over the tannoys before every match, playing up to the narrow minded, bigotted mob (don't give me this 'it's a minority crap), it's the vast majority who bellow out that they are 'up to their knees in fenian blood'. RFC should be closed down for good.
Posted by: Rob-K, Manchester on 8:38am Fri 16 May 08
As a Scot and someone unforutnate enough to live and work in Manchester here are the facts I witnessed throughout the day in Manchester.
1) The so called carnival atmosphere as you call it ealry on in the day was not what myself and many other Mancunians witnessed form our offices " were not sectarian UVF, UVF" was one of many ludirous chants heard constsntly throughout the day.
2) During a stroll round the city over lunch to check out the so called carnival atmosphere we witnnesed a group of RFC fans attack a group of Zenit supporters including women and children at the rear of the Arndale centre.
3) From our office window we clearly saw a Zenit supporter on someones shoulders in piccadilliy gardens pelted with bottles untill he left the area covered in blood.
4) Have a look on you tube at the footage from the world news channels and peoples mobiles and you will see what we witnessed later that evening in Manchester. Not the tame damage limitation footage being peddled by the Scottish media. I can assure you there were considerably more than 200 invovled in these incidents you can stick another 0 on that figure. Also this exculdes trouble which flared throught the evening in other areas of the city.
This whole incident justifys why I left the west of Scotland 20 years ago to escape the actions of pond life such as the world witnessed on Wed. When will we stop making excuses and admit that these perma rage clowns have no place in our society.
As a Scot and someone unforutnate enough to live and work in Manchester here are the facts I witnessed throughout the day in Manchester.
1) The so called carnival atmosphere as you call it ealry on in the day was not what myself and many other Mancunians witnessed form our offices " were not sectarian UVF, UVF" was one of many ludirous chants heard constsntly throughout the day.
2) During a stroll round the city over lunch to check out the so called carnival atmosphere we witnnesed a group of RFC fans attack a group of Zenit supporters including women and children at the rear of the Arndale centre.
3) From our office window we clearly saw a Zenit supporter on someones shoulders in piccadilliy gardens pelted with bottles untill he left the area covered in blood.
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