Teenage sex prosecution move has split opinion
It is intended as a common-sense move to save young teenagers who have consensual sex from being prosecuted.
But the recommendation by the Scottish Law Commission to effectively "decriminalise" sex between children aged 13 to 15 has divided opinion and provoked claims that it could send out the wrong message and leave vulnerable youngsters at risk.
The commission's recommendation, put out to consultation in December on behalf of the Scottish Government, is that those aged 13 to 15 who have consensual sex with one another should not be criminally liable, a change from the current situation in which a boy of that age could be prosecuted for having consensual sex with a girl of the same age.
The commission stated in its report that "many older children may have the capacity to consent to sexual activity", adding: "It seems to be an extreme outcome that 14 or 15-year-old children are to be prosecuted for engaging in activities that are both consensual and, as a matter of empirical fact, prevalent."
The age below which no form of sexual activity is regarded as appropriate, 13, would remain unchanged and sex between adults and those under 16 would remain a criminal offence.
The move is part of a review to tackle a "lack of coherence" in existing law, in which some offences only apply in respect of male offenders and female victims or male offenders and male victims.
It also comes at a time of societal change, when the onset of puberty is becoming earlier. Girls are reaching puberty 18 months before their mothers did, and almost two years earlier than their grandmothers, according to research published two years ago by the psychologist Dr Aric Sigman.
The response to the proposed change has been generally positive, but concerns have been raised about the vulnerability of apparently consenting young teenagers and also on how the change might fit in with ongoing attempts to tackle Scotland's teenage pregnancy rates, which remain among the highest in Europe.
Sexually transmitted
infections among teenagers generally have also increased in recent years.
One of the thorniest issues the government must face, should it proceed with the move, is how it will be
perceived publicly. As the debate over cannabis shows, moves to decriminalise are often taken as symbolic.
Only four years after it was reclassified from class B to class C, the UK Government is pushing for cannabis to be returned to class B, to send out a strong message about its dangers.
There are already signs that a move to decriminalise sex between 13 to 15-year-olds might be seen as effectively lowering the age of consent. The Association of Chief Police Officers in Scotland believes so and is opposing it on those grounds.
Victim Support Scotland, which generally supported
the recommendation, raised
a further anxiety, namely "whether a child can give meaningful consent".
The commission stated that it recognised concerns about the validity of consent, especially in cases where one party is older and more experienced than the other and said: "There will be cases where there are issues about the
welfare of children who are sexually active and who should be referred to a children's hearing."
For this reason, it recommends the creation of a new ground of referral to a children's hearing.
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Posted by: annonymoose, Glasgow on 5:49am Sat 10 May 08
Might as well post here as well.
Calm Down! consider what is really being reported and discussed here.
This is not about telling early teens its OK to go out and perform like rabbits.
What happens when you bar a wilful child from something? They have got to do it!!
What happens when there is no bar, other than Morals and standards taught, about what is acceptable and unacceptable behaviour for an early teen. They abstain.
It is more than just chance, its almost a given, that early teens are going to try anything and everything within the bounds of what they can get away with, at least once, not what is legal or not.
Those teens, who through Morals & Standards instilled by parental guidance will continue to be more effective than maintaining criminalisation.
Imagine a rebellious 13 year old having a record that places them on the sex offenders register for the rest of their life. That is Life destroying..... just for being an adventurous, inquisitive teen.... before that life has even started.
Before you all jump on me, or others who can see beyond prudish and Victorian attitudes, ask the question of THE PERSON FACING YOU IN THE MIRROR, what sort of things did you get up to at that age, or at least wanted to get up to, before you were 16. I know my answer, and I wasn’t even a “Hound Doggy”!
That said, now ask your partner the same, then use the “WE” word as well.
Might as well post here as well.
Calm Down! consider what is really being reported and discussed here.
This is not about telling early teens its OK to go out and perform like rabbits.
What happens when you bar a wilful child from something? They have got to do it!!
What happens when there is no bar, other than Morals and standards taught, about what is acceptable and unacceptable behaviour for an early teen. They abstain.
It is more than just chance, its almost a given, that early teens are going to try anything and everything within the bounds of what they can get away with, at least once, not what is legal or not.
Those teens, who through Morals & Standards instilled by parental guidance will continue to be more effective than maintaining criminalisation.
Imagine a rebellious 13 year old having a record that places them on the sex offenders register for the rest of their life. That is Life destroying..... just for being an adventurous, inquisitive teen.... before that life has even started.
Before you all jump on me, or others who can see beyond prudish and Victorian attitudes, ask the question of THE PERSON FACING YOU IN THE MIRROR, what sort of things did you get up to at that age, or at least wanted to get up to, before you were 16. I know my answer, and I wasn’t even a “Hound Doggy”!
That said, now ask your partner the same, then use the “WE” word as well.
Posted by: Politically-incorrec
t Man, Glasgow on 8:23am Sat 10 May 08
[quote]Before you all jump on me, or others who can see beyond prudish and Victorian attitudes, ask the question of THE PERSON FACING YOU IN THE MIRROR, what sort of things did you get up to at that age, or at least wanted to get up to, before you were 16. I know my answer, and I wasn’t even a “Hound Doggy”!
That said, now ask your partner the same, then use the “WE” word as well.[/quote]
Like the overwhelming majority of my peers I would have to admit that I was a virgin until my late teens, that is not to say that I did not think about it or getting stoned: but the “swinging sixties” always seemed to be happening elsewhere (mind you I did have a face like an explosion in an acne factory at the time).
I also contemplated robbing a bank and murdering my evil b’astard of a teacher, shall we decriminalise that since my adolescent mind thought that was a good idea at the time?
Why penalise 12year-olds who feel like a bit of rumpy-pumpy? Who has the right deny a 10yr-old who “gets the horn” during PE the right of freedom of expression? Where do you draw the line?
The young now seem to see sex as recreation rather than procreation and this legislation will not change that mind-set.
Before you all jump on me, or others who can see beyond prudish and Victorian attitudes, ask the question of THE PERSON FACING YOU IN THE MIRROR, what sort of things did you get up to at that age, or at least wanted to get up to, before you were 16. I know my answer, and I wasn’t even a “Hound Doggy”!
That said, now ask your partner the same, then use the “WE” word as well.
Like the overwhelming majority of my peers I would have to admit that I was a virgin until my late teens, that is not to say that I did not think about it or getting stoned: but the “swinging sixties” always seemed to be happening elsewhere (mind you I did have a face like an explosion in an acne factory at the time).
I also contemplated robbing a bank and murdering my evil b’astard of a teacher, shall we decriminalise that since my adolescent mind thought that was a good idea at the time?
Why penalise 12year-olds who feel like a bit of rumpy-pumpy? Who has the right deny a 10yr-old who “gets the horn” during PE the right of freedom of expression? Where do you draw the line?
The young now seem to see sex as recreation rather than procreation and this legislation will not change that mind-set.
Posted by: Colin B, Bearsden on 10:25am Sat 10 May 08
common sense move - rot -its a lazy Crown Office perverting the course of justice - what is the point of having a parliament if the Crown Office do their own thing as they do over drugs, child care etc
common sense move - rot -its a lazy Crown Office perverting the course of justice - what is the point of having a parliament if the Crown Office do their own thing as they do over drugs, child care etc
Posted by: weedave, Glasgow on 2:30pm Sat 10 May 08
Currently, I think children like to do what they are not allowed to, and in the context of this article, it is have sex before the age of 16. They feel a rush there when they do something they are not allowed to do, so they still do it. So decriminalising sex for 13-15 year olds will allow them to do it, but they will still try to push the envelope by either having sex with 15+ or below 13. So this situation could just get worse and worse. I do not know where the main influence is coming from for children to have sex, whether it is films, tv or even from there own parents, but it exists. We need to take action to inform younger children about safe sex, not just decriminalise it and think it will make all the problems vanish. Scrap recommendation no. 29.
Currently, I think children like to do what they are not allowed to, and in the context of this article, it is have sex before the age of 16. They feel a rush there when they do something they are not allowed to do, so they still do it. So decriminalising sex for 13-15 year olds will allow them to do it, but they will still try to push the envelope by either having sex with 15+ or below 13. So this situation could just get worse and worse. I do not know where the main influence is coming from for children to have sex, whether it is films, tv or even from there own parents, but it exists. We need to take action to inform younger children about safe sex, not just decriminalise it and think it will make all the problems vanish. Scrap recommendation no. 29.
Posted by: funnyoldworld, Edinburgh on 3:39pm Sat 10 May 08
So, there's a proposal to make boys and girls equal under the law. Why is this such an outrageous idea?
I have no particular view on what the best age is for consensual sex to be legal, but for goodness sake let's stop patronising girls and start treating them and their boyfriends as equals.
So, there's a proposal to make boys and girls equal under the law. Why is this such an outrageous idea?
I have no particular view on what the best age is for consensual sex to be legal, but for goodness sake let's stop patronising girls and start treating them and their boyfriends as equals.
Posted by: Adam Ramsay, Edinburgh on 5:33pm Sat 10 May 08
This is clearly common sense. Sending 15 year old boys to jail for having consensial sex with their 15 year old girl friends is crazy.
We need proper sex and relationship education from a younger age.
This is clearly common sense. Sending 15 year old boys to jail for having consensial sex with their 15 year old girl friends is crazy.
We need proper sex and relationship education from a younger age.
Posted by: Adam Ramsay, Edinburgh on 5:34pm Sat 10 May 08
This is clearly common sense. Sending 15 year old boys to jail for having consensial sex with their 15 year old girl friends is crazy.
We need proper sex and relationship education from a younger age.
This is clearly common sense. Sending 15 year old boys to jail for having consensial sex with their 15 year old girl friends is crazy.
We need proper sex and relationship education from a younger age.
Posted by: Alkie, NYC on 8:26am Sun 11 May 08
This is the sort of legislation that is passed by a society of drunkards.
The Scottish middle class is in shambles. Start standing for something because as it is now you will fall for anything.
This is the sort of legislation that is passed by a society of drunkards.
The Scottish middle class is in shambles. Start standing for something because as it is now you will fall for anything.