Calman devolution commission revealed
Douglas Fraser: "Oh yes, and there's the big guy who won Celebrity Big Brother"
The membership of the commission chaired by Sir Kenneth Calman into the future of devolution was revealed today.
Members include former deputy First Minister Jim Wallace and ex-Lord Advocate Lord Boyd.
The commission is meeting for the first time at Holyrood today as it sets about reviewing the process of devolution.
It is being chaired by Sir Kenneth Calman and has the support of Labour, the Tories and the Liberal Democrats.
Other members of the 15-strong commission include former Tory Scottish Office minister James Douglas Hamilton, Labour peer Lord Elder, Iain McMillan of CBI Scotland and Mona Siddiqui, Professor of Islamic studies at Glasgow University.
"I am delighted we have secured the commitment of such a range of experience and talent and I have no doubt it will be applied practically and thoroughly throughout the Commission's future proceedings," Sir Kenneth said.
"I also hope the wide spectrum of those involved sends a clear public signal this is an inclusive and independent Commission which is serious in both its intention and its application."
Other members include Matt Smith of Unison, Shonaig Macpherson chair of the National Trust for Scotland and of the SCDI, as well as retired European court judge Professor Sir David Edward.
Sir Kenneth added: "Every member has a clear understanding of the responsibility placed on them to make this a successful and constructive process which will produce work of lasting value."
The Commission will not explore independence as a future option.
The SNP government is holding its own consultation into the constitutional future, entitled the National Conversation.
The full membership of the commission is:
Sir Kenneth Calman, Chancellor of the University of Glasgow (Chair)
Colin Boyd, former Lord Advocate, member of the House of Lords (Labour)
Rani Dhir, Director Drumchapel Housing Co-operative
James Douglas Hamilton, former Scottish Office Minister, member of the House of Lords (Conservative)
Professor Sir David Edward, retired Judge of the European Court
Lord Elder, member of the House of Lords (Labour)
Audrey Findlay, former Leader of Aberdeenshire Council, now Convener of the Scottish Liberal Democrats
Jamie Lindsay, former Scottish Office Minister, member of the House of Lords (Conservative), Chairman SAC (Scottish Agricultural College)
John Loughton, President of the Scottish Youth Parliament (serving in a personal capacity)
Murdoch MacLennan, Chief Executive, Telegraph Media Group
Shonaig Macpherson, Chair of the National Trust for Scotland and of the SCDI (Scottish Council Development and Industry)
Iain McMillan, Director, CBI Scotland
Mona Siddiqui, Professor of Islamic Studies, University of Glasgow
Matt Smith, Scottish Secretary , UNISON
Jim Wallace, former Deputy First Minister and former leader of the Scottish Liberal Democrats
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Posted by: donnelly, dundee on 5:19pm Mon 28 Apr 08
Who in all honesty is giving a flying frig about what this bunch of glorified self opinionated **** wasters think ? ...in the end it will rightly come down to the PEOPLE of Scotland to decide what they want ...not this bunch of freeloading wasters.
The best thing to do with this bunch and others like them would be to ship them out to some offshore island and leave them there
Who in all honesty is giving a flying frig about what this bunch of glorified self opinionated **** wasters think ? ...in the end it will rightly come down to the PEOPLE of Scotland to decide what they want ...not this bunch of freeloading wasters.
The best thing to do with this bunch and others like them would be to ship them out to some offshore island and leave them there
Posted by: Huttcity, New Zealand on 5:21pm Mon 28 Apr 08
Professor of Islamic studies? wtf? This country is completely insane.
Professor of Islamic studies? wtf? This country is completely insane.
Posted by: nikostratos, edinburgh on 5:21pm Mon 28 Apr 08
But when to start to vote to evict them................
.and what channel is the programme on...........wonder if they will act like a cat?same as indefatigable George did
But when to start to vote to evict them................
.and what channel is the programme on...........wonder if they will act like a cat?same as indefatigable George did
Posted by: doonhamer on 5:25pm Mon 28 Apr 08
well that's 15 votes... so when do the rest of us get a chance to vote on the future of our country?
how will this expensive waste of time help the vulnerable two year olds that Wendy is so fond of?
Time for a real vote.
well that's 15 votes... so when do the rest of us get a chance to vote on the future of our country?
how will this expensive waste of time help the vulnerable two year olds that Wendy is so fond of?
Time for a real vote.
Posted by: Los Angeles, Edinburgh on 5:28pm Mon 28 Apr 08
[quote]The Commission will not explore independence as a future option.[/quote] Which pretty well consigns the commission, its proposals, and its members to a footnote in the history books.
The Commission will not explore independence as a future option.
Which pretty well consigns the commission, its proposals, and its members to a footnote in the history books.
Posted by: Kent, Edinburgh on 5:31pm Mon 28 Apr 08
Well they’re a rum bunch.
I hope that their names are not forgotten as they have now agreed to play their part in disenfranchising a large part of the Scottish electorate by excluding independence from their deliberations. In their view it’s the Union or nothing.
Shame on them.
Well they’re a rum bunch.
I hope that their names are not forgotten as they have now agreed to play their part in disenfranchising a large part of the Scottish electorate by excluding independence from their deliberations. In their view it’s the Union or nothing.
Shame on them.
Posted by: Ranting Rab, Carluke on 5:33pm Mon 28 Apr 08
Pack the benches!
oh so sad.
Indeed [quote]quote[/quote] Every member has a clear understanding ...[quote]quote[/quote]
Do as Gordon tells you..... but what if Gordon is gone?
Pack the benches!
oh so sad.
Indeed
quote
Every member has a clear understanding ...
quote
Do as Gordon tells you..... but what if Gordon is gone?
Posted by: UDI NOW, Aberdeen on 5:37pm Mon 28 Apr 08
A Latter-day Ragman's Roll
A Latter-day Ragman's Roll
Posted by: Alan Johnstone, Glasgow on 5:44pm Mon 28 Apr 08
In April 2005 this was published ; Jim Wallace, the enterprise minister, admitted he could not think of any successful examples of a scheme he had run.
Excellent just the sort of person we need to take us forward.
I have had a look at the rest and there are some live wires in there, that said there are a few beauties who deserve the order of the boot on day one.
In April 2005 this was published ; Jim Wallace, the enterprise minister, admitted he could not think of any successful examples of a scheme he had run.
Excellent just the sort of person we need to take us forward.
I have had a look at the rest and there are some live wires in there, that said there are a few beauties who deserve the order of the boot on day one.
Posted by: Los Angeles, Edinburgh on 5:44pm Mon 28 Apr 08
[bold]Sir Kenneth Calman
Cocked a snoop at Salmond.
He said, "My official commission,
Allows for the sin of omission."[/bold]
Sir Kenneth Calman
Cocked a snoop at Salmond.
He said, "My official commission,
Allows for the sin of omission."
Posted by: Scunnert, Travelling in Nihlon on 5:58pm Mon 28 Apr 08
Aye - a truly representative cross section of the Scottish people there. A p o x on all their houses.
Aye - a truly representative cross section of the Scottish people there. A p o x on all their houses.
Posted by: Harry, Bishopbriggs on 5:58pm Mon 28 Apr 08
Where's the sandpit. that they will be burying their thick heads in?
Where's the sandpit. that they will be burying their thick heads in?
Posted by: olaf the black, the longship on 6:00pm Mon 28 Apr 08
Future of devolution?.....It has no future,independence is coming!Maybe the chancers on this unionist comission should would do well to acknowledge this simple fact.Talk about burying your head in the sand(unionista style)lol
Future of devolution?.....It has no future,independence is coming!Maybe the chancers on this unionist comission should would do well to acknowledge this simple fact.Talk about burying your head in the sand(unionista style)lol
Posted by: Red Etin on 6:09pm Mon 28 Apr 08
Parcel of rogues?
Posted by: Dr Bill Reynolds, Salo,Finland on 6:22pm Mon 28 Apr 08
Most of the members of the devolution commission do not fill me with confidence.There is nobody representing:
1) The scottish government
2) The very large minoriity of the public who want independence
3) Scots abroad
4) Europeans who already live in independent countries
5) Those who favour English and Welsh independence.
If you add those people,the commission would be truly represeantative of all opinions and it would have the capacity to consider every possible viewpoint.
However,every step in the right direction is to be welcomed.Let us hope that the recommendations are worth waiting for.
Most of the members of the devolution commission do not fill me with confidence.There is nobody representing:
1) The scottish government
2) The very large minoriity of the public who want independence
3) Scots abroad
4) Europeans who already live in independent countries
5) Those who favour English and Welsh independence.
If you add those people,the commission would be truly represeantative of all opinions and it would have the capacity to consider every possible viewpoint.
However,every step in the right direction is to be welcomed.Let us hope that the recommendations are worth waiting for.
Posted by: JBlackley, Florida on 6:24pm Mon 28 Apr 08
I think that, no matter what your opinion on independence for Scotland, when one pro-independence party goes the populist route (with 'the national conversation') the other parties have been out-manoeuvred.
The Conservatives have not enjoyed strong support in Scotland in over a decade. Labour is a discredited organisation - too long in power and thereby too arrogant. The Lib Dems are regarded by too many as a slightly dotty but amiable distant relative.
So when the SNP proposes 'the national conversation', possibly the worst thing the remainder could do is respond with a stodgy old, monkey-business-as-u
sual 'commission' filled with the usual suspects and establishment placemen. And yet this is precisely what they've done. A massive failure of imagination.
I think that, no matter what your opinion on independence for Scotland, when one pro-independence party goes the populist route (with 'the national conversation') the other parties have been out-manoeuvred.
The Conservatives have not enjoyed strong support in Scotland in over a decade. Labour is a discredited organisation - too long in power and thereby too arrogant. The Lib Dems are regarded by too many as a slightly dotty but amiable distant relative.
So when the SNP proposes 'the national conversation', possibly the worst thing the remainder could do is respond with a stodgy old, monkey-business-as-u
sual 'commission' filled with the usual suspects and establishment placemen. And yet this is precisely what they've done. A massive failure of imagination.
Posted by: pehman, sussex on 6:26pm Mon 28 Apr 08
nuff said
Posted by: ex labour voter, glasgow on 6:28pm Mon 28 Apr 08
Jim , prat on a Donkey,Wallace, ha,ha,ha.
Can the constipation commission get any more desperate.
Waste of time and money by these self seeking trough dwellers.
Jim , prat on a Donkey,Wallace, ha,ha,ha.
Can the constipation commission get any more desperate.
Waste of time and money by these self seeking trough dwellers.
Posted by: allymax, yuk on 6:36pm Mon 28 Apr 08
So the engerlish crown establishment are trying to set up parallel parliamentary procedure in Scotland to dilute the effectiveness of the genuine elected Scottish parliamant; i.e who's really in charge here?
Calman said, "I also hope the wide spectrum of those involved sends a clear public signal this is an inclusive and independent Commission which is serious in both its intention and its application." YOU CANNAE BE SERIOUS?
The bliarite blinkers are on again peeps; these establishment stooges really think they're representing the people of Scotland!
As 'Kent, Edinburgh 5.31pm' said, "I hope that their names are not forgotten as they have now agreed to play their part in disenfranchising a large part of the Scottish electorate by excluding independence from their deliberations." We wil remember these 'elites', and I hope we, the public citizens of Scotland walk past them in the street and ignore them for their part in this disgraceful establishment charade.
So the engerlish crown establishment are trying to set up parallel parliamentary procedure in Scotland to dilute the effectiveness of the genuine elected Scottish parliamant; i.e who's really in charge here?
Calman said, "I also hope the wide spectrum of those involved sends a clear public signal this is an inclusive and independent Commission which is serious in both its intention and its application." YOU CANNAE BE SERIOUS?
The bliarite blinkers are on again peeps; these establishment stooges really think they're representing the people of Scotland!
As 'Kent, Edinburgh 5.31pm' said, "I hope that their names are not forgotten as they have now agreed to play their part in disenfranchising a large part of the Scottish electorate by excluding independence from their deliberations." We wil remember these 'elites', and I hope we, the public citizens of Scotland walk past them in the street and ignore them for their part in this disgraceful establishment charade.
Posted by: Graham, Glasgow on 6:49pm Mon 28 Apr 08
More waste of hard working peoples taxes.[bold]bold[/bold]
More waste of hard working peoples taxes.
Posted by: Ramsay, Hamburg on 7:01pm Mon 28 Apr 08
I have looked at the make-up and remit of this blinkered commission, and I can tell these people now that I am not in the slightest bit interested in their deliberations or their findings. Any constitutional commission established to brush aside the constitutional preference of over 40 per cent of the Scottish people deserves to be ignored.
By the time it makes its final recommendations it will have become even more irrelevant, as support for independence shows no sign of ceasing to increase.
The Calman Commission will have a place in history, but it will not be an honourable one.
I have looked at the make-up and remit of this blinkered commission, and I can tell these people now that I am not in the slightest bit interested in their deliberations or their findings. Any constitutional commission established to brush aside the constitutional preference of over 40 per cent of the Scottish people deserves to be ignored.
By the time it makes its final recommendations it will have become even more irrelevant, as support for independence shows no sign of ceasing to increase.
The Calman Commission will have a place in history, but it will not be an honourable one.
Posted by: Cadgers, Perth on 7:04pm Mon 28 Apr 08
"Oh yes, and there's the big guy who won Celebrity Big Brother"........
Says it all really. They should have invited someone from "Lost" too!
"Oh yes, and there's the big guy who won Celebrity Big Brother"........
Says it all really. They should have invited someone from "Lost" too!
Posted by: Jwil, Lanarkshire on 7:09pm Mon 28 Apr 08
Calman:
"[italic]I also hope the wide spectrum of those involved sends a clear public signal this is an inclusive and independent Commission which is serious in both its intention and its application."[/italic]
It can hardly be called inclusive! Can it be independent when It has to provide an outcome that is acceptable to the Westminster government?
Calman:
"
I also hope the wide spectrum of those involved sends a clear public signal this is an inclusive and independent Commission which is serious in both its intention and its application."
It can hardly be called inclusive! Can it be independent when It has to provide an outcome that is acceptable to the Westminster government?
Posted by: John Leven, Leven Fife on 7:14pm Mon 28 Apr 08
This commission is neither independent or inclusive, what a well balanced bunch, it looks like equal weight will be given to every argument, aye right.
They have made up their mind already. the report is written,you can quote me in September. Here is an early report.
After a far reaching and thorough revue where we have explored every avenue, apart from the one were we are ignoring the 23% who favor independence (note from editor, will you or Alf tell them it is now 41% they are totally ignoring Douglas) we have reached the conclusion that the executive has all the powers it needs at present to function almost as Westminster would like it too. We do think however that all planning decisions should be returned to Westminster, as we want control of planning nuclear power stations, as we do not want Scotland to miss out on the benefit of having these so they can supply power to England.
Will anyone in Scotland take this farce seriously? Apart from the few unionists left, maybe only 40% and getting smaller every day.
This commission is neither independent or inclusive, what a well balanced bunch, it looks like equal weight will be given to every argument, aye right.
They have made up their mind already. the report is written,you can quote me in September. Here is an early report.
After a far reaching and thorough revue where we have explored every avenue, apart from the one were we are ignoring the 23% who favor independence (note from editor, will you or Alf tell them it is now 41% they are totally ignoring Douglas) we have reached the conclusion that the executive has all the powers it needs at present to function almost as Westminster would like it too. We do think however that all planning decisions should be returned to Westminster, as we want control of planning nuclear power stations, as we do not want Scotland to miss out on the benefit of having these so they can supply power to England.
Will anyone in Scotland take this farce seriously? Apart from the few unionists left, maybe only 40% and getting smaller every day.
Posted by: nikostratos, edinburgh on 7:18pm Mon 28 Apr 08
commission Member Emilia
Roller-skating contortionist Emilia performs as a double act with her brother Victor at circuses around Europe - and for January in the Big Brother House. As renowned performers, Emilia and her brother spend half the year in Germany and travelling Europe with their shows, and they have performed for Princess Anne and Prince Charles. Emilia comes from seven generations of circus performers and has been in training since she was four years old, performing professionally for the first time when she was six. Emilia has a list of work-related injuries that include broken knee, shoulder, wrist, fingers and several ribs.
commission Member Emilia
Roller-skating contortionist Emilia performs as a double act with her brother Victor at circuses around Europe - and for January in the Big Brother House. As renowned performers, Emilia and her brother spend half the year in Germany and travelling Europe with their shows, and they have performed for Princess Anne and Prince Charles. Emilia comes from seven generations of circus performers and has been in training since she was four years old, performing professionally for the first time when she was six. Emilia has a list of work-related injuries that include broken knee, shoulder, wrist, fingers and several ribs.
Posted by: Duns Scotus, The Borders on 7:22pm Mon 28 Apr 08
[quote]inclusive and [bold]independent[/bold] Commission[/quote] that doesn't believe in including nationalists (like George Reid), nor discussing independence (now the majority choice of ther Scottish people).
inclusive and independent Commission
that doesn't believe in including nationalists (like George Reid), nor discussing independence (now the majority choice of ther Scottish people).
Posted by: Duns Scotus, The Borders on 7:28pm Mon 28 Apr 08
[quote]John Loughton, President of the Scottish Youth Parliament (serving in a personal capacity)[/quote]
Presumably he will offer the "Peter Pan" answer to the West Lothian question. That is, the Scottish Parliament should never be allowed to grow up.
Meanwhile Gazza Broon is in the Diary Room. And horrors! Every date in the Diary is 1st May. What can this mean?
John Loughton, President of the Scottish Youth Parliament (serving in a personal capacity)
Presumably he will offer the "Peter Pan" answer to the West Lothian question. That is, the Scottish Parliament should never be allowed to grow up.
Meanwhile Gazza Broon is in the Diary Room. And horrors! Every date in the Diary is 1st May. What can this mean?
Posted by: peter, aberdeenshire, Aberdeenshire on 7:37pm Mon 28 Apr 08
No ideas, nothing positive, reacting as usual to the SNP to try and stave off independence. Heard David Cameron on over the weekend and some of the things he was proposing like having a fund set aside from the oil wealth and a couple of other things were straight out ot the SNP proposals. I am all for independence and fully support any move in that direction, in the meantime their victory last year has not half shaken up the unionist parties, but its all to little too late.
The quality or lack of in the Labour party has also been shown up, Wendy a great intellect? I have met many people who i admire and respect for their intelligence, she does not even come close.
No ideas, nothing positive, reacting as usual to the SNP to try and stave off independence. Heard David Cameron on over the weekend and some of the things he was proposing like having a fund set aside from the oil wealth and a couple of other things were straight out ot the SNP proposals. I am all for independence and fully support any move in that direction, in the meantime their victory last year has not half shaken up the unionist parties, but its all to little too late.
The quality or lack of in the Labour party has also been shown up, Wendy a great intellect? I have met many people who i admire and respect for their intelligence, she does not even come close.
Posted by: Wullie, Aberdeen on 7:58pm Mon 28 Apr 08
The full membership of the commission is:
Liebour sook. Sir Kenneth Calman, Chancellor of the University of Glasgow.
Token ehnic. Rani Dhir, Director Drumchapel Housing Co-operative
Unionist Tory .James Douglas Hamilton, former Scottish Office Minister, member of the House of Lords
Liebour sook. Lord Elder, member of the House of Lords
Unionist sook. Jamie Lindsay, former Scottish Office Minister, member of the House of Lords.
Unionist Tory sook. Iain McMillan, Director, CBI Scotland
Token ethnic. Mona Siddiqui, Professor of Islamic Studies,
Liebour sook. Matt Smith, Scottish Secretary , UNISON
Never heard of him .Jim Wallace, Liberal
The full membership of the commission is:
Liebour sook. Sir Kenneth Calman, Chancellor of the University of Glasgow.
Token ehnic. Rani Dhir, Director Drumchapel Housing Co-operative
Unionist Tory .James Douglas Hamilton, former Scottish Office Minister, member of the House of Lords
Liebour sook. Lord Elder, member of the House of Lords
Unionist sook. Jamie Lindsay, former Scottish Office Minister, member of the House of Lords.
Unionist Tory sook. Iain McMillan, Director, CBI Scotland
Token ethnic. Mona Siddiqui, Professor of Islamic Studies,
Liebour sook. Matt Smith, Scottish Secretary , UNISON
Never heard of him .Jim Wallace, Liberal
Posted by: Clydesdale, Lanarkshire on 8:03pm Mon 28 Apr 08
The Palace of Westminster's upper chamber seems to be well represented in the commission - not much representation on behalf of the ordinary man and women in the street though.
The Palace of Westminster's upper chamber seems to be well represented in the commission - not much representation on behalf of the ordinary man and women in the street though.
Posted by: Los Angeles, Edinburgh on 8:03pm Mon 28 Apr 08
Hamish The Aussie Krapology[quote]many Scots[/quote] Back for more derision Hamish? What a masochist.
Hamish The Aussie Krapology
many Scots
Back for more derision Hamish? What a masochist.
Posted by: Bruce, Ayrshire on 8:04pm Mon 28 Apr 08
It looks suspiciusly like a deliberate attempt at getting the ooh and ahh factor - Lord-this Professor-that Sir-the other.
Yes, I can see the headlines - peppered with Lords and knights and academics. See? The little people must be wrong when all these august and titled worthies speak down to them.
Pathetic .Never was much of a revoltionary before, now I say, bring it on...Let THE PEOPLE Decide - [bold]for once![/bold]
It looks suspiciusly like a deliberate attempt at getting the ooh and ahh factor - Lord-this Professor-that Sir-the other.
Yes, I can see the headlines - peppered with Lords and knights and academics. See? The little people must be wrong when all these august and titled worthies speak down to them.
Pathetic .Never was much of a revoltionary before, now I say, bring it on...Let THE PEOPLE Decide -
for once! Posted by: Wullie, Aberdeen on 8:09pm Mon 28 Apr 08
Who the hell is going to pay fot this self indulgent , narcissistic , smug talking shop.
Dont tell me. Yup. Its the Scottish taxpayer.
Who the hell is going to pay fot this self indulgent , narcissistic , smug talking shop.
Dont tell me. Yup. Its the Scottish taxpayer.
Posted by: Sharpaxe on 8:09pm Mon 28 Apr 08
From Bannockburn to Culloden to Calman -- from good to bad to bleeding awful.
From Bannockburn to Culloden to Calman -- from good to bad to bleeding awful.
Posted by: Wullie, Aberdeen on 8:20pm Mon 28 Apr 08
Im very suprised that the liebour bitchh, the wicked witch, Kirsty Wark is not on this talking shop or that 14 year old liebour bairn Ian Rankin.
Ps. Do us a favour Ian Rankin. GET A FLIPPING HAIRCUT.
Im very suprised that the liebour bitchh, the wicked witch, Kirsty Wark is not on this talking shop or that 14 year old liebour bairn Ian Rankin.
Ps. Do us a favour Ian Rankin. GET A FLIPPING HAIRCUT.
Posted by: Graham, Glasgow on 8:22pm Mon 28 Apr 08
Wullie,8:09pm. The hard wurkin taxpayer Wullie. They all just love having their wurkin parties and junkets followed by a report that is forgotten the next day. Who are the mugs Wullie! The SNP are having a junket to China. Its something to do with cultyur and edjikation and strenghtening ties and all that crap. How many more restaurants do we need.[bold]bold[/bold]
Wullie,8:09pm. The hard wurkin taxpayer Wullie. They all just love having their wurkin parties and junkets followed by a report that is forgotten the next day. Who are the mugs Wullie! The SNP are having a junket to China. Its something to do with cultyur and edjikation and strenghtening ties and all that crap. How many more restaurants do we need.
Posted by: Grassy Knollington on 8:26pm Mon 28 Apr 08
Who gives a short sharp throw what this minibus full of Unionists thinks about the future of Scotland?
I say we park them in a layby with Cllr Terry Kelly, Kirsty Wark , and a couple of dozen of her cakes and lock all the doors while Scots make a decision where NO options are excluded.
Who gives a short sharp throw what this minibus full of Unionists thinks about the future of Scotland?
I say we park them in a layby with Cllr Terry Kelly, Kirsty Wark , and a couple of dozen of her cakes and lock all the doors while Scots make a decision where NO options are excluded.
Posted by: Curley Bill, the southwest on 8:30pm Mon 28 Apr 08
Notice something? There is [italic]not one post[/italic] on this board which actually supports the Commission.
All the usual suspects - like Graham, Glasgow, or JBlackley, or nickostratos, or even the exiled idiot from Banff - either deride it or, as is their wont, ignore it and continue with their usual mindless trolling.
Says it all, really.
Notice something? There is
not one post on this board which actually supports the Commission.
All the usual suspects - like Graham, Glasgow, or JBlackley, or nickostratos, or even the exiled idiot from Banff - either deride it or, as is their wont, ignore it and continue with their usual mindless trolling.
Says it all, really.
Posted by: Murray, British Columbia Canada on 8:36pm Mon 28 Apr 08
About taxpayers' money - this motley group must be funded in some way or another. Who will be getting remuneration [and how much]? What about expenses for this and that and travelling about to interview the folk in the street et al.? Who sets these figures?
And I do hope a full acounting will be given sometime............
About taxpayers' money - this motley group must be funded in some way or another. Who will be getting remuneration ? What about expenses for this and that and travelling about to interview the folk in the street et al.? Who sets these figures?
And I do hope a full acounting will be given sometime............
Posted by: Clydesdale, Lanarkshire on 8:38pm Mon 28 Apr 08
Bruce - you are right - it is hypocritical for Labour supporters to try and tag the Tartan Tory label to the SNP. The SNP, not Labour, have it written in their constitution not to work in partnership with the Conservative Party. It was the Labour PM who entertained and praised Mrs T at Number 10 and then hit the lowest paid with the ending of the 10p tax - it must anger traditionalists to hear Wendy use the term 'socialism'.
Bruce - you are right - it is hypocritical for Labour supporters to try and tag the Tartan Tory label to the SNP. The SNP, not Labour, have it written in their constitution not to work in partnership with the Conservative Party. It was the Labour PM who entertained and praised Mrs T at Number 10 and then hit the lowest paid with the ending of the 10p tax - it must anger traditionalists to hear Wendy use the term 'socialism'.
Posted by: art1000, Dunfermline on 8:45pm Mon 28 Apr 08
This commission is an insult to Scotland. The people of Scotland do not need to be talked down to by this bunch of chancers.
One hundred million pounds per day of North Sea Oil revenues routed to London with no stops on the way is what this is all about. They are after and a fair chunk of money for themselves too. Goodness knows why the burd from Islamic Studies gets to chip in on the Unionist side. Smacks of tokenism at the very least.
This commission is an insult to Scotland. The people of Scotland do not need to be talked down to by this bunch of chancers.
One hundred million pounds per day of North Sea Oil revenues routed to London with no stops on the way is what this is all about. They are after and a fair chunk of money for themselves too. Goodness knows why the burd from Islamic Studies gets to chip in on the Unionist side. Smacks of tokenism at the very least.
Posted by: Tearlach, Stirling on 8:52pm Mon 28 Apr 08
.......Sic a parcel o' rougues in a nation.
.......Sic a parcel o' rougues in a nation.
Posted by: Observer, Glasgow on 8:52pm Mon 28 Apr 08
Who chose these people ? Has their been any justification made of their inclusion ? On what basis are they there ? Does Matt Smith represent UNISON or Matt Smith ? The STUC have stated that independence should be an option so why is he on this ? Why Rani Dhir ? Is it the old Drumchapel/Dewar connection ? Were the respective parties just told to send a few placemen each ? One thing is for sure all of these people will have plenty of experience attending meetings and networking. Other than that ?????
Who chose these people ? Has their been any justification made of their inclusion ? On what basis are they there ? Does Matt Smith represent UNISON or Matt Smith ? The STUC have stated that independence should be an option so why is he on this ? Why Rani Dhir ? Is it the old Drumchapel/Dewar connection ? Were the respective parties just told to send a few placemen each ? One thing is for sure all of these people will have plenty of experience attending meetings and networking. Other than that ?????
Posted by: JBlackley, Florida on 8:55pm Mon 28 Apr 08
Curley Bill, I'm curious. Of what do you consider me to be a "usual suspect"?
Curley Bill, I'm curious. Of what do you consider me to be a "usual suspect"?
Posted by: george alexander, north lanarkshire on 8:55pm Mon 28 Apr 08
If The Herald is not carefull then the troll (or heckler) who continues to pepper the comments with his grafitti will do here what they did to The Scotsman.
Some weeks ago I remarked that I believed that these agitators were succeeding in destroying these forums such was the volume of provocative comments they were making. Thankfully they appear to have diminished in number, however the troll behind the 'Aussie' pseudonym, amongst others, persists in posting this stuff.
As the old familiar names disappear, he re-appears with new ones, each time making the same intollerant remarks about Scots. We are given every disgusting offensive label imaginable and yet The Herald allows these posts to continue.
The Herald can very, very easily stamp out this abuse and agitation and it is about time they did. Douglas Fraser some time ago described those who criticise him as 'vermin' and 'sewer dwellers'. One can only wonder then how he would refer to those behind the 'Hamish', 'Aussie', 'Grahamski' et al pseudonyms.
If The Herald is not carefull then the troll (or heckler) who continues to pepper the comments with his grafitti will do here what they did to The Scotsman.
Some weeks ago I remarked that I believed that these agitators were succeeding in destroying these forums such was the volume of provocative comments they were making. Thankfully they appear to have diminished in number, however the troll behind the 'Aussie' pseudonym, amongst others, persists in posting this stuff.
As the old familiar names disappear, he re-appears with new ones, each time making the same intollerant remarks about Scots. We are given every disgusting offensive label imaginable and yet The Herald allows these posts to continue.
The Herald can very, very easily stamp out this abuse and agitation and it is about time they did. Douglas Fraser some time ago described those who criticise him as 'vermin' and 'sewer dwellers'. One can only wonder then how he would refer to those behind the 'Hamish', 'Aussie', 'Grahamski' et al pseudonyms.
Posted by: Wullie, Aberdeen on 8:57pm Mon 28 Apr 08
Oddserver says
''Give it a rest''
So Im not allowed to express my views, am I.
You Oddserver are a multicultural facist.
Oddserver says
''Give it a rest''
So Im not allowed to express my views, am I.
You Oddserver are a multicultural facist.
Posted by: Bruce, Ayrshire on 9:00pm Mon 28 Apr 08
Clydesdale, I am not really a socialist, or any kind of ist except a (now converted- Scottish nationlist) I have working class roots and beliefs but I also have some entreprenurial (hope I spell better than I think I do!) streaks. I joined the SNP because it was a party of hope more than a party of left-right dogma which none of the others are anyway - they are parties chasing the biggest number of votes. I can admire people who are dyed in the wool conservatives and those with fervent socialist principles too. Each brings something to the table, but I wish all would at least acknowledge the other side. I find Labour a party that uses its core voters yet behaves like the tories in effect, and the tories do the same in reverse. What is the point of these parties? I prefer to vote SNP now, get what I think is right for the country then vote in subsequent Members of Parliament on their merits as good men and women. The party system sucks in the 21st Century, It draws false lines for false reasons. Once Scotland is independent, I hope all voters become independent in their thinking too.
And if Bampot fae Banff calls me a Tartan Tory, then he is as ignorant as he is wilful. But that's the left/right party system.
Clydesdale, I am not really a socialist, or any kind of ist except a (now converted- Scottish nationlist) I have working class roots and beliefs but I also have some entreprenurial (hope I spell better than I think I do!) streaks. I joined the SNP because it was a party of hope more than a party of left-right dogma which none of the others are anyway - they are parties chasing the biggest number of votes. I can admire people who are dyed in the wool conservatives and those with fervent socialist principles too. Each brings something to the table, but I wish all would at least acknowledge the other side. I find Labour a party that uses its core voters yet behaves like the tories in effect, and the tories do the same in reverse. What is the point of these parties? I prefer to vote SNP now, get what I think is right for the country then vote in subsequent Members of Parliament on their merits as good men and women. The party system sucks in the 21st Century, It draws false lines for false reasons. Once Scotland is independent, I hope all voters become independent in their thinking too.
And if Bampot fae Banff calls me a Tartan Tory, then he is as ignorant as he is wilful. But that's the left/right party system.
Posted by: Graham, Glasgow on 9:05pm Mon 28 Apr 08
Clydesdale,8:38pm. The SNP did take quite a lot of money from Mrs T's admirer. And the Tories made him a very very rich person. Who are the hypocrites! When Maggie snuffs it the Tartan Tories will pay homage to her. They did of course help her on the way to power![bold]bold[/bold]
Clydesdale,8:38pm. The SNP did take quite a lot of money from Mrs T's admirer. And the Tories made him a very very rich person. Who are the hypocrites! When Maggie snuffs it the Tartan Tories will pay homage to her. They did of course help her on the way to power!
Posted by: Traquir, Alba on 9:07pm Mon 28 Apr 08
Seems a tad colonial in that the British Empire appears to be
lining up it's finest to tell Scotland what to do, we have :
. 5 Lords a leaping.
. 2 Shining Knights
. 3 Commanders of the British Empire
. 1 Member of the British Empire
. 3 Waiting in the wings to be ennobeled - including one Big Brother
And the cherry on top the Chief Executive of the most bigoted anti-Scottish paper out there the Telegraph and previously
the Daily Mail.
To say this smacks of imperialism would be a great understatement.
Seems a tad colonial in that the British Empire appears to be
lining up it's finest to tell Scotland what to do, we have :
. 5 Lords a leaping.
. 2 Shining Knights
. 3 Commanders of the British Empire
. 1 Member of the British Empire
. 3 Waiting in the wings to be ennobeled - including one Big Brother
And the cherry on top the Chief Executive of the most bigoted anti-Scottish paper out there the Telegraph and previously
the Daily Mail.
To say this smacks of imperialism would be a great understatement.
Posted by: george alexander, north lanarkshire on 9:09pm Mon 28 Apr 08
[quote][bold]Curley Bill[/bold] wrote:
Notice something? There is [italic]not one post[/italic] on this board which actually supports the Commission. All the usual suspects - like Graham, Glasgow, or JBlackley, or nickostratos, or even the exiled idiot from Banff - either deride it or, as is their wont, ignore it and continue with their usual mindless trolling. Says it all, really.[/quote] Good point, these trolls generally begin by attacking other posters or by insulting their own countrymen and women or wildy insulting the democratically elected Scottish Government.
There is rarely, if ever, a comment that offers any sort of critique of the article.
The 'Exile' even criticised a poster who had, as the theme of his post, stated that the Scottish people should decide. That the poster made a flippant remark about shunting this 'commission' off to an island was jumped upon by the troll.
The commission is a disgracefull abuse of the parliamentary process and it's finances. To actively deny at least 40% of the Scottish electorate a voice is shamefull. Has any journalist thought to ask any of them about this?
This commission is verging on fascism, real fascism, where only those and such as those are allowed an opinion. The Unionist contempt for the views of the electorate is simply bewildering. What do they hope to achieve by ignoring the people?
Curley Bill wrote:
Notice something? There is not one post on this board which actually supports the Commission. All the usual suspects - like Graham, Glasgow, or JBlackley, or nickostratos, or even the exiled idiot from Banff - either deride it or, as is their wont, ignore it and continue with their usual mindless trolling. Says it all, really.
Good point, these trolls generally begin by attacking other posters or by insulting their own countrymen and women or wildy insulting the democratically elected Scottish Government.
There is rarely, if ever, a comment that offers any sort of critique of the article.
The 'Exile' even criticised a poster who had, as the theme of his post, stated that the Scottish people should decide. That the poster made a flippant remark about shunting this 'commission' off to an island was jumped upon by the troll.
The commission is a disgracefull abuse of the parliamentary process and it's finances. To actively deny at least 40% of the Scottish electorate a voice is shamefull. Has any journalist thought to ask any of them about this?
This commission is verging on fascism, real fascism, where only those and such as those are allowed an opinion. The Unionist contempt for the views of the electorate is simply bewildering. What do they hope to achieve by ignoring the people?
Posted by: Los Angeles, Edinburgh on 9:12pm Mon 28 Apr 08
[bold]George Alexander[quote]What do they hope to achieve by ignoring the people?[/quote] Perpetual ignominy.[/bold]
George AlexanderWhat do they hope to achieve by ignoring the people?
Perpetual ignominy. Posted by: Clydesdale, Lanarkshire on 9:12pm Mon 28 Apr 08
Graham, I think it was the winter of discontent and the scuppering of devolution which caused the downfall of Labour in 1979. And was it the PM who wanted Menzies Campbell to agree to stop the SNP getting into power at all costs, even if it meant voting for a Conservative First Minister?
Graham, I think it was the winter of discontent and the scuppering of devolution which caused the downfall of Labour in 1979. And was it the PM who wanted Menzies Campbell to agree to stop the SNP getting into power at all costs, even if it meant voting for a Conservative First Minister?
Posted by: nikostratos, edinburgh on 9:13pm Mon 28 Apr 08
continue with their usual mindless trolling.he he he he....love it
continue with their usual mindless trolling.he he he he....love it
Posted by: Graham, Glasgow on 9:14pm Mon 28 Apr 08
GA,9:09PM. Usual Suspects. Such language usually comes from fascists! And petty nationalists.[bold]bold[/bold]
GA,9:09PM. Usual Suspects. Such language usually comes from fascists! And petty nationalists.
Posted by: Bruce, Ayrshire on 9:15pm Mon 28 Apr 08
Graham and Aussie miss the point. The SNP is a broach church . It is a party with a goal, just as Labour and Conservative once had goals that justified their existence. The goal that was for Labour has largely been won and the party is no longer the Labour Party but the "Win Power for Power's Sake Party." The Conservatives had a role in holding back the revolutions, the Reds, the wreckers of all that was precious to them - little of that raison-d'ertre remains, so they too become the Power-for Power's Sake Party. Different cheeks, same arse.
The SNP have a goal as a party, to win independence for the country of Scotland. Once achived, their raison d'etre is gone for the most part, except as the individuals of experience to take the country further.
I do believe the party system is now an anachronism. Perhaps it will become the ecologists v the industrialists - who knows? But right now, there is no need for a party unless it has a definite goal in mind as once Labour and the Conservatives did.
I think most people have grown up and wish to choose candidates on their merit - once the over-riding goals have been achieved. With the SNP, theirs has not. Not yet. So taunts of socialist Scots or Tartan Tories mean nothing at all these days. Not if you live in the 21st century and not the past.
Graham and Aussie miss the point. The SNP is a broach church . It is a party with a goal, just as Labour and Conservative once had goals that justified their existence. The goal that was for Labour has largely been won and the party is no longer the Labour Party but the "Win Power for Power's Sake Party." The Conservatives had a role in holding back the revolutions, the Reds, the wreckers of all that was precious to them - little of that raison-d'ertre remains, so they too become the Power-for Power's Sake Party. Different cheeks, same arse.
The SNP have a goal as a party, to win independence for the country of Scotland. Once achived, their raison d'etre is gone for the most part, except as the individuals of experience to take the country further.
I do believe the party system is now an anachronism. Perhaps it will become the ecologists v the industrialists - who knows? But right now, there is no need for a party unless it has a definite goal in mind as once Labour and the Conservatives did.
I think most people have grown up and wish to choose candidates on their merit - once the over-riding goals have been achieved. With the SNP, theirs has not. Not yet. So taunts of socialist Scots or Tartan Tories mean nothing at all these days. Not if you live in the 21st century and not the past.
Posted by: george alexander, north lanarkshire on 9:16pm Mon 28 Apr 08
[quote][bold]Wullie[/bold] wrote:
Oddserver says ''Give it a rest'' So Im not allowed to express my views, am I. You Oddserver are a multicultural facist.[/quote] No Wullie you [bold]are[/bold] allowed to express your views.
However now and again your views are offensive and certainly do not represent the views of the vast majority of independence supporters.
I have no qualms about taking trolls to task, nationalist or Unionist.
Your labelling of another poster who was responding to your offensive post as 'Fascist' is pathetic. I hope that the moderator removes your post.
Wullie wrote:
Oddserver says ''Give it a rest'' So Im not allowed to express my views, am I. You Oddserver are a multicultural facist.
No Wullie you
are allowed to express your views.
However now and again your views are offensive and certainly do not represent the views of the vast majority of independence supporters.
I have no qualms about taking trolls to task, nationalist or Unionist.
Your labelling of another poster who was responding to your offensive post as 'Fascist' is pathetic. I hope that the moderator removes your post.
Posted by: Bruce, Ayrshire on 9:16pm Mon 28 Apr 08
"broach church" should read "broad church" - wish this board had an edit facility!!!
"broach church" should read "broad church" - wish this board had an edit facility!!!
Posted by: Wen D, Inversnecky on 9:17pm Mon 28 Apr 08
What a load of UTTER UTTER c....p!
This "commission" , stuffed full of hardcore unionists will be consigned to the dustbin of history after the next Scottish elections where the SNP will make massive further inroads into the fast shrinking citadel stuffed full of renegade Scots and their lackeys from the numpty parties!
What a load of UTTER UTTER c....p!
This "commission" , stuffed full of hardcore unionists will be consigned to the dustbin of history after the next Scottish elections where the SNP will make massive further inroads into the fast shrinking citadel stuffed full of renegade Scots and their lackeys from the numpty parties!
Posted by: pencildick on 9:22pm Mon 28 Apr 08
Up pops Lord Elder again.
The very same Lord Elder that donated money to Wendy Alexanders leadership campaign.
The very same Lord Elder that advised the electoral commission ,into the illegal donations scandal engulfing Wendy Alexander.
Wendy Alexander and her placemen (tribe) are a joke .
This is a talking shop with no powers a better remember that.
Up pops Lord Elder again.
The very same Lord Elder that donated money to Wendy Alexanders leadership campaign.
The very same Lord Elder that advised the electoral commission ,into the illegal donations scandal engulfing Wendy Alexander.
Wendy Alexander and her placemen (tribe) are a joke .
This is a talking shop with no powers a better remember that.
Posted by: Observer, Glasgow on 9:22pm Mon 28 Apr 08
[quote][bold]nikostratos[/bold] wrote:
continue with their usual mindless trolling.he he he he....love it[/quote] Niko if you are a Unionist then please note they have filled the commission with a bunch of placemen. They are very unlikely to come up with anything which could impress a dog never mind a country. And they are up against an inspiring SNP. he he he....love it.
nikostratos wrote:
continue with their usual mindless trolling.he he he he....love it
Niko if you are a Unionist then please note they have filled the commission with a bunch of placemen. They are very unlikely to come up with anything which could impress a dog never mind a country. And they are up against an inspiring SNP. he he he....love it.
Posted by: Wullie, Aberdeen on 9:22pm Mon 28 Apr 08
Cydesdale
I remember when Jim Callahagn got off the plane from his holiday in the Bahamas and saying '' Crisis, what crisis '' during the winter of discontent.
Liebour then pulls a fast one and has the brass neck to blame the snp that liebour lost the election. Nah. Liebour lost because they were a crapp government. End of story.
Cydesdale
I remember when Jim Callahagn got off the plane from his holiday in the Bahamas and saying '' Crisis, what crisis '' during the winter of discontent.
Liebour then pulls a fast one and has the brass neck to blame the snp that liebour lost the election. Nah. Liebour lost because they were a crapp government. End of story.
Posted by: Graham, Glasgow on 9:26pm Mon 28 Apr 08
Clydesdale,9:12pm. Devolution was scuppered after the 1979 election along with thousands of Scottish jobs. Catch up on your history. The SNP voted to bring down the government in spite of knowing what Thatcher had in store for the Scottish and British workforce. The SNP did not care. Petty nationalism was more important than Thatcher. May I Labour the point again, the Snp have taken loadsamoney from a certain Thatcherite. You are the Tartan Tories.[bold]bold[/bold]
Clydesdale,9:12pm. Devolution was scuppered after the 1979 election along with thousands of Scottish jobs. Catch up on your history. The SNP voted to bring down the government in spite of knowing what Thatcher had in store for the Scottish and British workforce. The SNP did not care. Petty nationalism was more important than Thatcher. May I Labour the point again, the Snp have taken loadsamoney from a certain Thatcherite. You are the Tartan Tories.
Posted by: Los Angeles, Edinburgh on 9:27pm Mon 28 Apr 08
Graham of Glasshouse[quote]Usual Suspects. Such language usually comes from fascists![/quote] I see squeezing your plooks has lost its appeal tonight.
Graham of Glasshouse
Usual Suspects. Such language usually comes from fascists!
I see squeezing your plooks has lost its appeal tonight.
Posted by: pencildick on 9:28pm Mon 28 Apr 08
"ALEXANDERS RAGTIME BAND"
or
"Calman devolution commission"
take your pick
"ALEXANDERS RAGTIME BAND"
or
"Calman devolution commission"
take your pick
Posted by: george alexander, north lanarkshire on 9:29pm Mon 28 Apr 08
In anticipation of a response from 'Wullie' it might enlighten others to find out that a journalist at The Sunday Herald was effectively removed from his post last week after using the term 'bead rattlers' in an article about Celtic supporters.
These remarks play into the hands of those who would seek to turn Scot against Scot and should be stamped out. We see all too often the fall out from religious bigotry especially in the West of Scotland.
The religious make up or ethnicity of this commission is neither here nor there, each of those taking part should be accountable and answerable to every Scot.........and they are not, [bold]that[/bold] is the disgrace.
In anticipation of a response from 'Wullie' it might enlighten others to find out that a journalist at The Sunday Herald was effectively removed from his post last week after using the term 'bead rattlers' in an article about Celtic supporters.
These remarks play into the hands of those who would seek to turn Scot against Scot and should be stamped out. We see all too often the fall out from religious bigotry especially in the West of Scotland.
The religious make up or ethnicity of this commission is neither here nor there, each of those taking part should be accountable and answerable to every Scot.........and they are not,
that is the disgrace.
Posted by: Clydesdale, Lanarkshire on 9:29pm Mon 28 Apr 08
Even if you are opposed to the idea of independence and dislike the SNP (and in the case of Labour it appears to be a blind hatred at times) surely on such an important matter as the constitutional future of Scotland the people's voice should be heard as part of the process. I wonder how long the commiss
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