Call for 10% of transport cash to go on cycling and walking
The Scottish Government should invest 10% of its transport budget on cycling and walking initiatives, according to a coalition of health, transport and leisure groups.
The 70 organisations are calling on all UK governments and local authorities to help fight obesity by "taking action on active travel". The groups launched a campaign yesterday for more cycle routes, better enforced traffic laws and 20mph speed limits to be enforced in residential areas.
The coalition - which includes such diverse groups as Sustrans, the Royal College of Nursing and the Royal Institute of British Architects - believe investment could help the nation move away from sedentary travel and toward better public health.
Philip Insall, director of active travel at Sustrans, said: "The best European cities already see half of journeys made by bicycle or on foot.
We really must start investing properly in the ways of travelling that promote good health and do not pollute, and 10% of all transport spending should be just a start.
"That would be a truly sophisticated approach to transport investment and it would tackle the ruinous growth in obesity we face."
Dr Tim Crayford, president of the Association of Directors of Public Health, said: "If we really want to see levels of obesity declining in the UK, we have to move on from the rhetoric. Every transport and land-use decision should be checked to ensure it meets public-health criteria."
The groups said spending on cycling amounted to less than 0.5% of the overall transport budget in England and Wales in 2006-07.
In Scotland, the government's capital expenditure on cycle projects is only 1% of its £1.7bn transport budget, according to Spokes - the Lothian Cycle Campaign. Spokes is joined in the coalition by organisations including Transform Scotland, Strathclyde Partnership for Transport, Cycling Scotland, Living Streets Scotland and Ramblers Scotland.
Their campaign was welcomed yesterday by cyclists in Glasgow's Pollok Country Park, including Bruce Thomas, 36, who was out with his children Rowan, three, and Callum, two. "The government could certainly do a lot more to promote cycling within the city," he said. "Proper cycle lanes would be a start. I think the 10% figure is probably about right, especially when you consider the situation we face with the fuel strikes."
Mohammad Shahid, 40, from Newlands, said the roads were too dangerous for him to let his 10-year-old daughter Safiyyah cycle without supervision. "She's taking her cycling proficiency test, but whenever she goes out practicing I have to drive beside her in the car," he said.
"The cycle lanes are dominated by buses and taxis, so if we want to go cycling we have to drive here with the bikes. Why can't our government follow Holland's example and spend a bit of money on this?"
The Scottish Government has set a target that by 2022 50% of adults and 80% of children are expected to meet international recommendations for daily levels of physical activity, with adults doing at least 30 minutes most days of the week and children doing one hour each day of the week.
A spokeswoman for the Scottish Government said: "Last week, we announced record funding of £12m over three years for physical activ-ity in schools, workplaces, homes and communities."
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Posted by: wee folding bike on 7:02am Mon 28 Apr 08
Cycle lanes are dangerous.
Spend the money mending the roads and enforcing the current traffic laws.
Cycle lanes are dangerous.
Spend the money mending the roads and enforcing the current traffic laws.
Posted by: mt on 7:09am Mon 28 Apr 08
"We really must start investing properly in the ways of travelling that promote good health and do not pollute, and 10% of all transport spending should be just a start."
South Lanarkshire Council Roads Dept would need £10 million this year on top of their budget just to keep the roads in the present poorly maintained standard they have been in for decades.
"Why can't our government follow Holland's example and spend a bit of money on this?"
Last time I was in Holland, the country was predominately flat whilst Scotland is famous for its mountains (and rain).
Sorry, but if anyone suggests I get on my bike, the answer is NO!
"We really must start investing properly in the ways of travelling that promote good health and do not pollute, and 10% of all transport spending should be just a start."
South Lanarkshire Council Roads Dept would need £10 million this year on top of their budget just to keep the roads in the present poorly maintained standard they have been in for decades.
"Why can't our government follow Holland's example and spend a bit of money on this?"
Last time I was in Holland, the country was predominately flat whilst Scotland is famous for its mountains (and rain).
Sorry, but if anyone suggests I get on my bike, the answer is NO!
Posted by: megz, glasgow on 9:20am Mon 28 Apr 08
Seperate cycle paths would be preferable i think, nice scenic routes. So while i spending money on things like that is a good idea, i also think that people should know to walk, or exercise. Who is to blame for the obesity problem? I think that blame should land squarely at the door of the obese person. People keep complaining about a nanny state, then you have people moaning that the government aren't doing enough to promote a healthy diet, exercise stopping smoking etc. It is high time people started accepting responsibility for their own actions.
Seperate cycle paths would be preferable i think, nice scenic routes. So while i spending money on things like that is a good idea, i also think that people should know to walk, or exercise. Who is to blame for the obesity problem? I think that blame should land squarely at the door of the obese person. People keep complaining about a nanny state, then you have people moaning that the government aren't doing enough to promote a healthy diet, exercise stopping smoking etc. It is high time people started accepting responsibility for their own actions.
Posted by: Harry, Bishopbriggs on 9:22am Mon 28 Apr 08
When did cyclists start paying road tax? I'm sure that the money taxed from motorists could build much improved roads and the money leftover could be donated to cycling routes
When did cyclists start paying road tax? I'm sure that the money taxed from motorists could build much improved roads and the money leftover could be donated to cycling routes
Posted by: wee folding bike on 9:59am Mon 28 Apr 08
Harry,
That has a beard. Roads are not funded from the road tax.
Harry,
That has a beard. Roads are not funded from the road tax.
Posted by: Bill Irvine, West Lothian on 10:44am Mon 28 Apr 08
Forget the initiatives, and other jargon.
Just get on with it.
Probably more than half of all journeys are made on foot .
For every single bus, rail or car jouney the passenger has 2 walking journeys.
One to the train bus etc. and one at the other end.
Forget the initiatives, and other jargon.
Just get on with it.
Probably more than half of all journeys are made on foot .
For every single bus, rail or car jouney the passenger has 2 walking journeys.
One to the train bus etc. and one at the other end.
Posted by: pc2k, Strathaven on 10:47am Mon 28 Apr 08
[quote][bold]Harry[/bold] wrote:
When did cyclists start paying road tax? I'm sure that the money taxed from motorists could build much improved roads and the money leftover could be donated to cycling routes[/quote] Roads are paid for from general taxation, not "Road Tax". We all pay for the roads. Get over it.
Harry wrote:
When did cyclists start paying road tax? I'm sure that the money taxed from motorists could build much improved roads and the money leftover could be donated to cycling routes
Roads are paid for from general taxation, not "Road Tax". We all pay for the roads. Get over it.
Posted by: Brad, Glasgow on 11:05am Mon 28 Apr 08
Since Harry also pays excise duty on his whisky, he doubtless expect the government to provide him with a set of crystal glasses as well...
Since Harry also pays excise duty on his whisky, he doubtless expect the government to provide him with a set of crystal glasses as well...
Posted by: Brad, Glasgow on 11:08am Mon 28 Apr 08
But money spent maintaining the roads better would benefit motorists and cyclists alike. Central Scotland's roads are appalling!
But money spent maintaining the roads better would benefit motorists and cyclists alike. Central Scotland's roads are appalling!
Posted by: Corrupt EU, Fife on 11:18am Mon 28 Apr 08
I think more money should be spent on encouraging people to go diesel.
My 10-year-old Mondeo does 54 miles to the gallon on the winding roads to work. Clearly diesel is the future. Cycling and walking is useless if you have to travel more than 10 miles to work!
As for buses, what buses?
I think more money should be spent on encouraging people to go diesel.
My 10-year-old Mondeo does 54 miles to the gallon on the winding roads to work. Clearly diesel is the future. Cycling and walking is useless if you have to travel more than 10 miles to work!
As for buses, what buses?
Posted by: Brad, Glasgow on 11:38am Mon 28 Apr 08
Most people don't travel more than 10 miles to work.
And a quarter of Edinburghers travel to work on buses.
Most people don't travel more than 10 miles to work.
And a quarter of Edinburghers travel to work on buses.
Posted by: Harry, Bishopbriggs on 11:54am Mon 28 Apr 08
[quote][bold]wee folding bike[/bold] wrote:
Harry, That has a beard. Roads are not funded from the road tax.[/quote] I know that, but when "Road Tax" was invented and initially passed by parliament that's what it was for.
Before 1936, and still used to this day in informal everyday use, the licence was known as the road fund licence, and the proceeds went into the Government's road fund, and used entirely for road expenditure.
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Just because later governments stole the Tax for their own ends does not change that.
wee folding bike wrote:
Harry, That has a beard. Roads are not funded from the road tax.
I know that, but when "Road Tax" was invented and initially passed by parliament that's what it was for.
Before 1936, and still used to this day in informal everyday use, the licence was known as the road fund licence, and the proceeds went into the Government's road fund, and used entirely for road expenditure.
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Just because later governments stole the Tax for their own ends does not change that.
Posted by: Trouserpress, Glasgow on 12:04pm Mon 28 Apr 08
Harry, that doesn't really make any sense as an argument. You were wrong. Get over it.
The roads in central Scotland are totally appalling. Even countries like Romania have better roads - no kidding. Nice, smooth roads would benefit cyclists and drivers alike.
But it has to be said, Glasgow in particular is absolutely pathetic when it comes to cycle lanes.
Harry, that doesn't really make any sense as an argument. You were wrong. Get over it.
The roads in central Scotland are totally appalling. Even countries like Romania have better roads - no kidding. Nice, smooth roads would benefit cyclists and drivers alike.
But it has to be said, Glasgow in particular is absolutely pathetic when it comes to cycle lanes.
Posted by: Harry, Bishopbriggs on 2:29pm Mon 28 Apr 08
Trouserpress@12.40
It may not make sense to you, but motorists have been giving up more and more road space to cyclists in the last few years and very seldom see any cyclists using these lanes. If cyclists wish to apportion a slice of the road for their exclusive use, then they should contribute like the motorist and motor-cyclist do, or even more so as they do not make productive use of their portion.
Part of the reason for the mess of the Glasgow roads is that the council are too busy wasting money, trying to force drivers out of their cars into their buses and trains, instead of providing the smooth, safe roads that the majority want.
The car is king and no green agenda will change that. Even if the oil ran out people would buy cars fueled by some other means.
Cycle routes should be off the highway for safety reasons if for no other.
Trouserpress@12.40
It may not make sense to you, but motorists have been giving up more and more road space to cyclists in the last few years and very seldom see any cyclists using these lanes. If cyclists wish to apportion a slice of the road for their exclusive use, then they should contribute like the motorist and motor-cyclist do, or even more so as they do not make productive use of their portion.
Part of the reason for the mess of the Glasgow roads is that the council are too busy wasting money, trying to force drivers out of their cars into their buses and trains, instead of providing the smooth, safe roads that the majority want.
The car is king and no green agenda will change that. Even if the oil ran out people would buy cars fueled by some other means.
Cycle routes should be off the highway for safety reasons if for no other.
Posted by: wee folding bike on 2:56pm Mon 28 Apr 08
Harry,
If you read my first message you will find that not all cyclists like cycle routes. They make cycling less safe for those who use them and those who do not.
Find out more about how roads are funded then try again.
Harry,
If you read my first message you will find that not all cyclists like cycle routes. They make cycling less safe for those who use them and those who do not.
Find out more about how roads are funded then try again.
Posted by: JBlackley, Florida on 3:31pm Mon 28 Apr 08
"Every transport and land-use decision should be checked to ensure it meets public-health (i.e. 'get the slothful off their beam-ends' )criteria."
No government can legislate either morality or stupidity and wasting the public's time and money on legislating against gluttony is near-criminal (with apologies to those whose obesity is rooted in a medical condition).
Scotland's weather and terrain do not lend themselves to cycling and Scotland's politicians' records do not bode well for organising something as simple as cycle lanes in all towns and cities. As has been suggested before, it would benefit more people in Scotland if the political classes could organise decent road maintenance schemes and (this is a stretch) encourage a public transport system that actually serves the public.
"Every transport and land-use decision should be checked to ensure it meets public-health (i.e. 'get the slothful off their beam-ends' )criteria."
No government can legislate either morality or stupidity and wasting the public's time and money on legislating against gluttony is near-criminal (with apologies to those whose obesity is rooted in a medical condition).
Scotland's weather and terrain do not lend themselves to cycling and Scotland's politicians' records do not bode well for organising something as simple as cycle lanes in all towns and cities. As has been suggested before, it would benefit more people in Scotland if the political classes could organise decent road maintenance schemes and (this is a stretch) encourage a public transport system that actually serves the public.
Posted by: teamdroid on 3:46pm Mon 28 Apr 08
Hey Harry, it's called "Vehicle Excise Duty". As someone says, because you pay Excise Duty on a bottle of whisky, you don't get a decanter and glasses provided to you by the government.
Besides, you should welcome every cyclist you see on the road. It means one less car in your way, as you race desperately along to get to the next red traffic light (never fails to amuse me that one, when I'm cycling into town in the morning).
Hey Harry, it's called "Vehicle Excise Duty". As someone says, because you pay Excise Duty on a bottle of whisky, you don't get a decanter and glasses provided to you by the government.
Besides, you should welcome every cyclist you see on the road. It means one less car in your way, as you race desperately along to get to the next red traffic light (never fails to amuse me that one, when I'm cycling into town in the morning).
Posted by: wee folding bike on 4:27pm Mon 28 Apr 08
JBlackley,
Cycling in Scotland is perfectly fine.
If you watch old film of factories shift change you notice that lots of people used to cycle to work. The weather and terrain are the same as they were then.
JBlackley,
Cycling in Scotland is perfectly fine.
If you watch old film of factories shift change you notice that lots of people used to cycle to work. The weather and terrain are the same as they were then.
Posted by: calum, Glasgow on 4:29pm Mon 28 Apr 08
Harry wrote: [quote]...motorists have been giving up more and more road space to cyclists...[/quote]
The roads aren't the motorists' to start with, they belong to all of us as taxpayers.
Your road fund licence/vehicle excise duty doesn't pay for the roads, general taxation does that. Accordingly, those cyclists, pedestrians, motorcyclists and motorists whopay general taxes have every right to use the roads equally.
The money collected from vehicle excise duty is no longer hypothecated so, please, forget any notion that motorists alone pay for the roads.
Cycles belong on roads, not cycle lanes which are poorly designed, don't go where riders want to go, and are often littered with glass and other debris.
Given the choice between commuting with my car, motorcycle or bicycle, the bicycle wins every time. There's plenty room for us all, it only needs a bit of give and take on everyone's part.
Harry wrote:
...motorists have been giving up more and more road space to cyclists...
The roads aren't the motorists' to start with, they belong to all of us as taxpayers.
Your road fund licence/vehicle excise duty doesn't pay for the roads, general taxation does that. Accordingly, those cyclists, pedestrians, motorcyclists and motorists whopay general taxes have every right to use the roads equally.
The money collected from vehicle excise duty is no longer hypothecated so, please, forget any notion that motorists alone pay for the roads.
Cycles belong on roads, not cycle lanes which are poorly designed, don't go where riders want to go, and are often littered with glass and other debris.
Given the choice between commuting with my car, motorcycle or bicycle, the bicycle wins every time. There's plenty room for us all, it only needs a bit of give and take on everyone's part.
Posted by: Harry, Bishopbriggs on 4:40pm Mon 28 Apr 08
Wee Folding Bike and Teamdroid,
Roads are funded by money, chanelled through goverment and council departments. If you access the road system in a car you pay road tax, or whatever you want to call it nowadays, to the same government. If you don't pay your car gets crushed if it is found on the street or road.
Access to cyclists has always been free, but I think it is time that they were charged for the huge amount of road space, pro rata, that is now set aside for them.
It would make sense if they were banned from using main traffic routes and made to use quieter streets, with special tracks built to form shortcuts.
Wee Folding Bike and Teamdroid,
Roads are funded by money, chanelled through goverment and council departments. If you access the road system in a car you pay road tax, or whatever you want to call it nowadays, to the same government. If you don't pay your car gets crushed if it is found on the street or road.
Access to cyclists has always been free, but I think it is time that they were charged for the huge amount of road space, pro rata, that is now set aside for them.
It would make sense if they were banned from using main traffic routes and made to use quieter streets, with special tracks built to form shortcuts.
Posted by: Alastair, Aberdeen on 4:42pm Mon 28 Apr 08
If anyone wants to know how public transport is done, go to any city, big or small, in Germany. I have lived and studied in Hanover and Duesseldorf, worked in Konstanz, and been on holiday in Hamburg, all over the peninsular with Denmark, Cologne, Freiburg, Regensburg, and Berlin to name but a few. All the big cities have an integrated bus and underground and tram system. At peak times, and even in early evening it would be unheard of to wait more than 10 minutes for any of them; you can buy tickets from any newsagent, just like a top-up to your mobile phone, so no queuing when you get on the bus to pay the nonsense called the "Exact fare". The driver doesn't take any money at all.
When I lived in Duesseldorf I stayed about 10 miles out of the city centre on the northern end, and then the university was right at the very southern end of the city. From leaving the house in the morning, I could be at the university in half an hour, with no problems of having to look for a parking space or anything like that.
As far as cycling is concerned, cyclists have a cycle path on the pavement, out of the way of motorised traffic. At junctions, cyclists have priority, so if say you are driving on the left as in this country, and you are cycling along the cycle path and you approach a side road off to the left, if a car wants to turn in, it must wait until the cyclist crosses before it can turn into the side road. Same applies at roundabouts, but here there is a combination of the usual roundabout system and traffic lights (especially for the cycle lanes). Takes a bit of getting used to but it works.
Needless to say if Scotland wants to have a public transport system that matches the likes of this, then it will cost money, but when you consider that the cost of the Aberdeen Western Peripheral Route alone is near on 1/2 billion pounds and rising, and there is every likelihood that this will actually increase congestion rather than reduce it, then what on earth are we doing NOT investing huge amounts (and I mean HUGE amounts) in a public transport infrastructure that is fit for purpose?
If anyone wants to know how public transport is done, go to any city, big or small, in Germany. I have lived and studied in Hanover and Duesseldorf, worked in Konstanz, and been on holiday in Hamburg, all over the peninsular with Denmark, Cologne, Freiburg, Regensburg, and Berlin to name but a few. All the big cities have an integrated bus and underground and tram system. At peak times, and even in early evening it would be unheard of to wait more than 10 minutes for any of them; you can buy tickets from any newsagent, just like a top-up to your mobile phone, so no queuing when you get on the bus to pay the nonsense called the "Exact fare". The driver doesn't take any money at all.
When I lived in Duesseldorf I stayed about 10 miles out of the city centre on the northern end, and then the university was right at the very southern end of the city. From leaving the house in the morning, I could be at the university in half an hour, with no problems of having to look for a parking space or anything like that.
As far as cycling is concerned, cyclists have a cycle path on the pavement, out of the way of motorised traffic. At junctions, cyclists have priority, so if say you are driving on the left as in this country, and you are cycling along the cycle path and you approach a side road off to the left, if a car wants to turn in, it must wait until the cyclist crosses before it can turn into the side road. Same applies at roundabouts, but here there is a combination of the usual roundabout system and traffic lights (especially for the cycle lanes). Takes a bit of getting used to but it works.
Needless to say if Scotland wants to have a public transport system that matches the likes of this, then it will cost money, but when you consider that the cost of the Aberdeen Western Peripheral Route alone is near on 1/2 billion pounds and rising, and there is every likelihood that this will actually increase congestion rather than reduce it, then what on earth are we doing NOT investing huge amounts (and I mean HUGE amounts) in a public transport infrastructure that is fit for purpose?
Posted by: Harry, Bishopbriggs on 4:57pm Mon 28 Apr 08
Good points Alastair,
I worked in Hamburg in '72 and it was like that then.
One advantage the German cities had when it came to town planning was that they started from a flattened city. When I came home and told my uncle where I had been, he commented that when they drove their tank into Hamburg there was not a building that was not in ruins.
Good points Alastair,
I worked in Hamburg in '72 and it was like that then.
One advantage the German cities had when it came to town planning was that they started from a flattened city. When I came home and told my uncle where I had been, he commented that when they drove their tank into Hamburg there was not a building that was not in ruins.
Posted by: wee folding bike on 4:58pm Mon 28 Apr 08
Harry,
Pavements are funded by money, channelled through goverment and council departments. Are you going to ban people from walking unless they have paid a specific walking tax?
If you follow your own logic then people travelling on their own in car should pay more because they take up more space than four people in a car.
I use a bike to get places. It makes sense to use main traffic routes. I do not want special space set aside for cycling. The only exception I can think of is Advance Stop Lines (ASL) which make things faster for all users.
Off road routes make cycling less safe and slower.
One of my cars is tax exempt. How do you feel about that?
Harry,
Pavements are funded by money, channelled through goverment and council departments. Are you going to ban people from walking unless they have paid a specific walking tax?
If you follow your own logic then people travelling on their own in car should pay more because they take up more space than four people in a car.
I use a bike to get places. It makes sense to use main traffic routes. I do not want special space set aside for cycling. The only exception I can think of is Advance Stop Lines (ASL) which make things faster for all users.
Off road routes make cycling less safe and slower.
One of my cars is tax exempt. How do you feel about that?
Posted by: JBlackley, Florida on 6:37pm Mon 28 Apr 08
wee folding bike, thank you for responding to my comment.
I agree that many people used to travel to and from factories on their bikes. However, films from that period also refer to people bathing once a month, in a tin bath, in front of the house's only fire.
I trust (and hope) that Scotland's bathing habits have changed in that time - ditto for the standard of heating houses. While cycling to and from work (probably uphill in both directions) in the freezing rain in the 1930's may have been more pleasant than walking, I doubt nearly so many would opt for it nowadays.
wee folding bike, thank you for responding to my comment.
I agree that many people used to travel to and from factories on their bikes. However, films from that period also refer to people bathing once a month, in a tin bath, in front of the house's only fire.
I trust (and hope) that Scotland's bathing habits have changed in that time - ditto for the standard of heating houses. While cycling to and from work (probably uphill in both directions) in the freezing rain in the 1930's may have been more pleasant than walking, I doubt nearly so many would opt for it nowadays.
Posted by: wee folding bike on 6:47pm Mon 28 Apr 08
JBlackley,
As bath technology has moved on so have bikes. In olden days, when I was at school, we used a fixed wheel over the winter. Now we use multiple gears all year. Many tyres are close to puncture proof.
Rain is rarely a problem. Water proof technology has improved too. I only get very wet a couple of times a year. I dress for the conditions and have full length mudguards.
I have four cars. I choose to cycle. I do it every day and have for years. It's great but few people give it a try. Do you think it would be a good idea if they did?
JBlackley,
As bath technology has moved on so have bikes. In olden days, when I was at school, we used a fixed wheel over the winter. Now we use multiple gears all year. Many tyres are close to puncture proof.
Rain is rarely a problem. Water proof technology has improved too. I only get very wet a couple of times a year. I dress for the conditions and have full length mudguards.
I have four cars. I choose to cycle. I do it every day and have for years. It's great but few people give it a try. Do you think it would be a good idea if they did?
Posted by: JBlackley, Florida on 7:24pm Mon 28 Apr 08
wee folding bike, thanks once again for responding to my comment.
I congratulate you on your cycling and the pleasure it appears to give you. Doubtless it will also preserve your health.
I also note what you say about the improvement in cycles and waterproofs. However, when you ask me a question such as, "Do you think it would be a good idea if they did?" I'm afraid I have to demur as I'm not qualified to speak for others on this subject.
I can tell you that I cycled a great deal in Scotland and, by and large, found it dismal, dangerous and quite unrewarding. As in most of my comments, I was speaking for myself - however, given the numbers of those in Scotland who don't cycle I believe mine is a widely-shared belief.
wee folding bike, thanks once again for responding to my comment.
I congratulate you on your cycling and the pleasure it appears to give you. Doubtless it will also preserve your health.
I also note what you say about the improvement in cycles and waterproofs. However, when you ask me a question such as, "Do you think it would be a good idea if they did?" I'm afraid I have to demur as I'm not qualified to speak for others on this subject.
I can tell you that I cycled a great deal in Scotland and, by and large, found it dismal, dangerous and quite unrewarding. As in most of my comments, I was speaking for myself - however, given the numbers of those in Scotland who don't cycle I believe mine is a widely-shared belief.
Posted by: wee folding bike on 7:32pm Mon 28 Apr 08
JBlackley,
Did you do this in the days of no baths?
Widely shared does not mean correct.
JBlackley,
Did you do this in the days of no baths?
Widely shared does not mean correct.
Posted by: Roger, London on 7:54pm Mon 28 Apr 08
Harry
Your argument that motorists have prior use of the roads because you pay "road tax" is like arguing that smokers have prior use of hospitals because they pay excise duty on cigarettes.
As for the argument that cyclists are less deserving of decent provision because they don't pay road tax, "wee folding bike" has already pointed out that pedestrians don't get taxed to pay for the provision of pavements. I'd add that the most expensive roads are dual-carriageway trunk roads (which are hardly used by pedestrians and cyclists) and motorways (from which these gropus are banned outright). Yet pedestrians and cyclists still pay for these expensive white-elephant road schemes through general taxation.
"Road tax" does not pay for the roads. It goes to the Government along with all our other taxes, who in turn cover some (but by no means all) of the harmful effects of driving. These include the costs not only the wear and tear of roads, but also the NHS of road crashes and of pollution-related diseases(asthma, bronchitis etc). The Government does not cover the costs of climate change, as this will fall on future generations, primarily in poor countries.
Best wishes
Roger
Harry
Your argument that motorists have prior use of the roads because you pay "road tax" is like arguing that smokers have prior use of hospitals because they pay excise duty on cigarettes.
As for the argument that cyclists are less deserving of decent provision because they don't pay road tax, "wee folding bike" has already pointed out that pedestrians don't get taxed to pay for the provision of pavements. I'd add that the most expensive roads are dual-carriageway trunk roads (which are hardly used by pedestrians and cyclists) and motorways (from which these gropus are banned outright). Yet pedestrians and cyclists still pay for these expensive white-elephant road schemes through general taxation.
"Road tax" does not pay for the roads. It goes to the Government along with all our other taxes, who in turn cover some (but by no means all) of the harmful effects of driving. These include the costs not only the wear and tear of roads, but also the NHS of road crashes and of pollution-related diseases(asthma, bronchitis etc). The Government does not cover the costs of climate change, as this will fall on future generations, primarily in poor countries.
Best wishes
Roger
Posted by: JBlackley, Florida on 9:04pm Mon 28 Apr 08
wee folding bike, thank you once again for your response to my comment.
I did not mean to imply (and don't think I did) that 'widely shared' means correct. I take it to mean nothing more than 'widely shared' and I'm highly aware of many widely shared ideas and opinions that, far from being correct, are demonstrably wrong.
And, no, I did my cycling in days when my personal hygiene standards were quite high, thank you.
wee folding bike, thank you once again for your response to my comment.
I did not mean to imply (and don't think I did) that 'widely shared' means correct. I take it to mean nothing more than 'widely shared' and I'm highly aware of many widely shared ideas and opinions that, far from being correct, are demonstrably wrong.
And, no, I did my cycling in days when my personal hygiene standards were quite high, thank you.
Posted by: wee folding bike on 9:15pm Mon 28 Apr 08
JBlackley,
Well then you must have been singularly unlucky. A couple of times a year the memsahib stops me in the hall with a towel and tells me to get dried off before I'm allowed further into the house. The rest of the time it is perfectly manageable. I've been commuting by bike since 1980 in Glasgow, London and a few other places. Cars do not do the job well enough.
Perhaps you could try it again. Try a folder. I've got custom built cumbersomes with two and three wheels in the garage but I prefer to use the cheery wee ones. Getting spares can be a problem because the Glasgow dealer seems to feel that speed kills so I use mail order now which requires me holding a stock of cables and other bits.
JBlackley,
Well then you must have been singularly unlucky. A couple of times a year the memsahib stops me in the hall with a towel and tells me to get dried off before I'm allowed further into the house. The rest of the time it is perfectly manageable. I've been commuting by bike since 1980 in Glasgow, London and a few other places. Cars do not do the job well enough.
Perhaps you could try it again. Try a folder. I've got custom built cumbersomes with two and three wheels in the garage but I prefer to use the cheery wee ones. Getting spares can be a problem because the Glasgow dealer seems to feel that speed kills so I use mail order now which requires me holding a stock of cables and other bits.
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