‘Prostitute punters more violent’
The more frequently men use prostitutes, the more likely they are to be sexually
aggressive towards other women, according to new research.
Extensive interviews with 110 men between the ages of 18 and 77 who had paid for sex found that prostitution adversely affected their behaviour towards other women, and one in 10 said they would go as far as committing rape if they were not caught.
The Glasgow-based Scottish Women's Group, which campaigns to protect women and children, used newspaper adverts to get in touch with "punters" and paid them £20 each to be interviewed.
The men were questioned about the circumstances in which they bought sex, their personal relationships, views about women in the sex trade and what they thought were the most effective punishments.
The results will form part of an international study, including research into male users in India, Spain and the US.
Almost half of the men were currently in a relationship with a wife or girlfriend and three-quarters of them had first bought sex by the age of 25.
The report states: "54% of the men who frequently used women in prostitution had committed sexually aggressive acts against non-prostitute partners compared to 30% of the less frequent users.
"The more frequently a punter used women in prostitution, the more likely he was to have committed sexually coercive acts against non-prostituting women.
"Prostitution affects not only how men think about women, it also influences
their actual behaviour toward women, including sexual aggression against non-prostituting women."
The study, which was funded by the NHS, Scottish Government and Glasgow City Council, also found that, of those who had kerb-crawled, used saunas and illegal brothels for sexual services, some 89% would stop using prostitutes if "named and shamed" on the sex offenders' register.
Only 56% would be deterred by the requirement to attend an educational programme and 69%-79% said they would be deterred by greater criminal penalties such as higher fines, having their car impounded or a prison sentence.
Some 93% of the men in Edinburgh bought sex indoors compared to 74% in Glasgow.
The report suggests: "This may reflect the two cities' differing approaches to prostitution. Indoor prostitution has been tolerated in Edinburgh, whereas Glasgow has adopted a strong anti-prostitution approach since 1998.
"Indeed, several of our interviewees assumed indoor prostitution was licensed in Edinburgh, which may be a reflection of Edinburgh's policy of managing rather than challenging prostitution."
Many of the men believed that the money paid cancels out the harm caused.
Jan Macleod, development officer with the Women's Support Project, said: "This is a real opportunity for public education of these men. Somehow they kid themselves that these women are there out of choice and that they
are earning lots of money and that it means they are doing nothing wrong.
"One of the most worrying findings was that the more frequently they used prostitutes, the more likely they were to be sexually aggressive towards other women."
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Posted by: GML, right here on 9:23am Mon 28 Apr 08
Violence against women is a very severe issue in society, and there is little doubt that the two phenomena mentioned above are linked in some way. However, I feel someone has to mention the [italic]post hoc[/italic] fallacy.
Violence against women is a very severe issue in society, and there is little doubt that the two phenomena mentioned above are linked in some way. However, I feel someone has to mention the
post hoc fallacy.
Posted by: Caitlin, Glasgow on 12:39pm Mon 28 Apr 08
I'm not any kind of scientist or statistician, but it seems to me that a paid, self-selected sample of 110 is hardly statistically significant. IME [bold]some[/bold] men have stinking attitudes towards women (see any sexual harrassment at work case) - it seems very odd to blame the existence of prostitution for a phenomenon that undoubtedly starts in the home, and probably with non-prostitute mothers.
[quote]Some 93% of the men in Edinburgh bought sex indoors compared to 74% in Glasgow.
The report suggests: "This may reflect the two cities' differing approaches to prostitution. Indoor prostitution has been tolerated in Edinburgh, whereas Glasgow has adopted a strong anti-prostitution approach since 1998.[/quote]
So 7% of Edinurgh punters buy sex in the street, from the most damaged, vulnerable and abused type of sex worker. In Glasgow, 26% of punters use these women - and that's a triumph for Glasgow's policies? Indoor sex work is much, much safer, for both women and men.
[quote]"One of the most worrying findings was that the more frequently they used prostitutes, the more likely they were to be sexually aggressive towards other women."[/quote]
Or, the higher the sex-drive/testostero
ne levels, the more likely to harrass women and use prostitutes?
Talk about blaming the victim.
I'm not any kind of scientist or statistician, but it seems to me that a paid, self-selected sample of 110 is hardly statistically significant. IME
some men have stinking attitudes towards women (see any sexual harrassment at work case) - it seems very odd to blame the existence of prostitution for a phenomenon that undoubtedly starts in the home, and probably with non-prostitute mothers.
Some 93% of the men in Edinburgh bought sex indoors compared to 74% in Glasgow.
The report suggests: "This may reflect the two cities' differing approaches to prostitution. Indoor prostitution has been tolerated in Edinburgh, whereas Glasgow has adopted a strong anti-prostitution approach since 1998.
So 7% of Edinurgh punters buy sex in the street, from the most damaged, vulnerable and abused type of sex worker. In Glasgow, 26% of punters use these women - and that's a triumph for Glasgow's policies? Indoor sex work is much, much safer, for both women and men.
"One of the most worrying findings was that the more frequently they used prostitutes, the more likely they were to be sexually aggressive towards other women."
Or, the higher the sex-drive/testostero
ne levels, the more likely to harrass women and use prostitutes?
Talk about blaming the victim.
Posted by: Caitlin, Glasgow on 1:30pm Mon 28 Apr 08
My last comment seems to have vanished. I'll assume it's a technical thing to do with my computer and try again.
Research based on 110 self-selected, paid subjects is not statistically meaningful. These men probably had dubious attitudes towards women (see any sexual harrassment at work industrial tribunal) before they went looking for prostitutes, so I don't see how prostitution causes the problem.
[quote]Some 93% of the men in Edinburgh bought sex indoors compared to 74% in Glasgow.[/quote]
Street work is incredibly dangerous for prostitutes - see the 7 dead Glasgow women, with what is it? One conviction? Anyone recall Ipswich? How can this supposedly pro-woman group think they've helped women when 26% of Glasgow punters use street workers, compared to only 7% of Edinburgh punters?
My last comment seems to have vanished. I'll assume it's a technical thing to do with my computer and try again.
Research based on 110 self-selected, paid subjects is not statistically meaningful. These men probably had dubious attitudes towards women (see any sexual harrassment at work industrial tribunal) before they went looking for prostitutes, so I don't see how prostitution causes the problem.
Some 93% of the men in Edinburgh bought sex indoors compared to 74% in Glasgow.
Street work is incredibly dangerous for prostitutes - see the 7 dead Glasgow women, with what is it? One conviction? Anyone recall Ipswich? How can this supposedly pro-woman group think they've helped women when 26% of Glasgow punters use street workers, compared to only 7% of Edinburgh punters?
Posted by: 5shillings, Midlands on 2:20pm Mon 28 Apr 08
I think the article is badly written, don't your 'chief reporters' have things like 'O'level English or even degrees?
To wit "Some 93% of the men in Edinburgh bought sex indoors compared to 74% in Glasgow."
Surely your 'Chief Reporter' means 93% of the men in Edinburgh paying for sexual services did so indoors. Not 93% of the men in Edinburgh. I think an apology to the men of Edinburgh is in order and six of the best for your 'Chief Reporter'
Bring back the tawse I say.
Bob.
I think the article is badly written, don't your 'chief reporters' have things like 'O'level English or even degrees?
To wit "Some 93% of the men in Edinburgh bought sex indoors compared to 74% in Glasgow."
Surely your 'Chief Reporter' means 93% of the men in Edinburgh paying for sexual services did so indoors. Not 93% of the men in Edinburgh. I think an apology to the men of Edinburgh is in order and six of the best for your 'Chief Reporter'
Bring back the tawse I say.
Bob.
Posted by: JBlackley, Florida on 3:46pm Mon 28 Apr 08
"Prostitution affects not only how men think about women, it also influences their actual behaviour toward women, including sexual aggression against non-prostituting women."
It might well do but that's not proven by this small study. Nothing in this study indicates cause and effect. In fact, the study indicates more about the type of men who habitually use prostitutes than it does about the effect of using prostitutes.
An agenda at work, perhaps?
"Prostitution affects not only how men think about women, it also influences their actual behaviour toward women, including sexual aggression against non-prostituting women."
It might well do but that's not proven by this small study. Nothing in this study indicates cause and effect. In fact, the study indicates more about the type of men who habitually use prostitutes than it does about the effect of using prostitutes.
An agenda at work, perhaps?
Posted by: jazzdrum, glasgow on 5:30pm Mon 28 Apr 08
Does this mean that Lord whats his name with the sex addiction and use of prostitutes is ultra aggressive?
Does this mean that Lord whats his name with the sex addiction and use of prostitutes is ultra aggressive?
Posted by: Los Angeles, Edinburgh on 5:33pm Mon 28 Apr 08
Blackley Flouride[quote]It might well do but that's not proven by this small study[/quote] What would you prefer is proven?
Blackley Flouride
It might well do but that's not proven by this small study
What would you prefer is proven?
Posted by: allymax, yuk on 7:52pm Mon 28 Apr 08
JBlackley, well said.
The radical/marxist/soci
al feminist lobby's are representative of the establishment lobbies trying their 'mushroom politics on the populace Scotland. I wish I got a huge wad every week for coming up with crap surveys that demonize men, and are flawed from various validity perspectives. These feminists are trying to convince the human race that sex is a social construction, that can be changed. Well, the oldest profession since the dawn of time refutes this premise. Axioms, not probables please!
JBlackley, well said.
The radical/marxist/soci
al feminist lobby's are representative of the establishment lobbies trying their 'mushroom politics on the populace Scotland. I wish I got a huge wad every week for coming up with crap surveys that demonize men, and are flawed from various validity perspectives. These feminists are trying to convince the human race that sex is a social construction, that can be changed. Well, the oldest profession since the dawn of time refutes this premise. Axioms, not probables please!
Posted by: Kathleen Caskie on 12:12pm Tue 29 Apr 08
"The oldest profession since the dawn of time"
Wow . . prostitution is a 'profession' is it? Do you need a degree or other professional qualifications?
And it's 'the oldest' is it? I'd have thought that things like hunting or gathering berries might have been occupations for people before prostitution, but who am I to argue with allymax's incredibly incisive point?
"The oldest profession since the dawn of time"
Wow . . prostitution is a 'profession' is it? Do you need a degree or other professional qualifications?
And it's 'the oldest' is it? I'd have thought that things like hunting or gathering berries might have been occupations for people before prostitution, but who am I to argue with allymax's incredibly incisive point?
Posted by: Sam, Glasgow on 12:26pm Tue 29 Apr 08
Who indeed Kathleen, now be a love go and put the kettle on
Who indeed Kathleen, now be a love go and put the kettle on
Posted by: Caitlin, Glasgow on 3:18pm Tue 29 Apr 08
[quote][bold]Kathleen Caskie[/bold] wrote:
"The oldest profession since the dawn of time"
Wow . . prostitution is a 'profession' is it? Do you need a degree or other professional qualifications?
And it's 'the oldest' is it? I'd have thought that things like hunting or gathering berries might have been occupations for people before prostitution, but who am I to argue with allymax's incredibly incisive point?[/quote] Recent chimpanzee studies (I think, it may have been some other near relative) have shown males giving food to females, and then having sex. This [bold]could[/bold] be construed as primitive prostitution. Or,of course, it [bold]could[/bold] be a male saying, "Food is nice, let's share food" and them both thinking "Hmm, sex is nice, let's have sex".
Money is nice...
Kathleen Caskie wrote:
"The oldest profession since the dawn of time"
Wow . . prostitution is a 'profession' is it? Do you need a degree or other professional qualifications?
And it's 'the oldest' is it? I'd have thought that things like hunting or gathering berries might have been occupations for people before prostitution, but who am I to argue with allymax's incredibly incisive point?
Recent chimpanzee studies (I think, it may have been some other near relative) have shown males giving food to females, and then having sex. This
could be construed as primitive prostitution. Or,of course, it
could be a male saying, "Food is nice, let's share food" and them both thinking "Hmm, sex is nice, let's have sex".
Money is nice...
Posted by: The Bug, london on 5:18pm Wed 30 Apr 08
"it seems very odd to blame the existence of prostitution for a phenomenon that undoubtedly starts in the home, and probably with non-prostitute mothers"
Why assume that the idea for prostitution starts with women? These statistics show that the demand comes from men.
" So 7% of Edinurgh punters buy sex in the street, from the most damaged, vulnerable and abused type of sex worker. In Glasgow, 26% of punters use these women - and that's a triumph for Glasgow's policies? Indoor sex work is much, much safer, for both women and men"
Unfounded assumption - women in parlours are far more likely to have been trafficked than street prostitutes, and the harm of unwanted sex is not lessend by doing it indoors. Also you have falsely interpreted that by the indoor sex going down, the street sex must have gone up. False premise I'm afraid.
"I wish I got a huge wad every week for coming up with crap surveys that demonize men, and are flawed from various validity perspectives. "
This survey does in no way demonize men. It is specifically aimed at understanding the small minority of men who pay for sexual services. Fortunately that number is small and if you count yourself amongst the men who do use sexual services, it is quite right that you should be held to account for the harm you cause, and it is offensive for you to try to claim solidarity with men who have more respect for sexual intimacy with women.
"Recent chimpanzee studies (I think, it may have been some other near relative) have shown males giving food to females, and then having sex. This could be construed as primitive prostitution. Or,of course, it could be a male saying, "Food is nice, let's share food" and them both thinking "Hmm, sex is nice, let's have sex"."
No this is ridiculous. A male presenting a female with a gift to show care and the desire to form a closer bond, may well get a female in the mood for sex as an act of foreplay. This is very different from using money to pay a woman to pretend to be in the mood and 'put up with' his selfish sexual actions, which she has disassociated from because it is so abhorrent. Money is no aphrodisiac for prostituted women as you have tried to imply here.
"it seems very odd to blame the existence of prostitution for a phenomenon that undoubtedly starts in the home, and probably with non-prostitute mothers"
Why assume that the idea for prostitution starts with women? These statistics show that the demand comes from men.
" So 7% of Edinurgh punters buy sex in the street, from the most damaged, vulnerable and abused type of sex worker. In Glasgow, 26% of punters use these women - and that's a triumph for Glasgow's policies? Indoor sex work is much, much safer, for both women and men"
Unfounded assumption - women in parlours are far more likely to have been trafficked than street prostitutes, and the harm of unwanted sex is not lessend by doing it indoors. Also you have falsely interpreted that by the indoor sex going down, the street sex must have gone up. False premise I'm afraid.
"I wish I got a huge wad every week for coming up with crap surveys that demonize men, and are flawed from various validity perspectives. "
This survey does in no way demonize men. It is specifically aimed at understanding the small minority of men who pay for sexual services. Fortunately that number is small and if you count yourself amongst the men who do use sexual services, it is quite right that you should be held to account for the harm you cause, and it is offensive for you to try to claim solidarity with men who have more respect for sexual intimacy with women.
"Recent chimpanzee studies (I think, it may have been some other near relative) have shown males giving food to females, and then having sex. This could be construed as primitive prostitution. Or,of course, it could be a male saying, "Food is nice, let's share food" and them both thinking "Hmm, sex is nice, let's have sex"."
No this is ridiculous. A male presenting a female with a gift to show care and the desire to form a closer bond, may well get a female in the mood for sex as an act of foreplay. This is very different from using money to pay a woman to pretend to be in the mood and 'put up with' his selfish sexual actions, which she has disassociated from because it is so abhorrent. Money is no aphrodisiac for prostituted women as you have tried to imply here.
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