logo
   Web Issue 3239 August 30 2008   
spacer
Health ministers unite for attack over NHS pay deal
ROBBIE DINWOODIE, Chief Scottish Political CorrespondentApril 04 2008

HEALTH Ministers from Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland have launched an unprecedented joint attack on Whitehall about NHS pay negotiations taking place behind their back.

Health Secretary Nicola Sturgeon hosted a summit with her counterparts from Cardiff and Belfast yesterday, and they issued a joint communique affirming their support for the principles of an NHS firmly in the public sector. This in itself was an oblique swipe at the competition and privatisation agenda being pursued in England. But in the course of yesterday's meeting officials informed ministers that crucial pay talks had opened in London without the knowledge of the ministers in the devolved administrations.

They immediately agreed to write to Health Secretary Alan Johnson demanding that he call a halt to these negotiations until they were involved. The letter signed by Michael McGimpsey, the Stormont Health Minister and his Cardiff counterpart Edwina Hart, as well as Ms Sturgeon, states: "We are concerned that there has not been an appropriate level of dialogue at Ministerial level about matters with far-reaching consequences for all our administrations. We are clear that the scope for determining any pay settlement, single or multi-year, is a collective Ministerial responsibility across our four administrations.

"It is therefore vital, that we as Health Ministers should be directly involved in agreeing any final outcome. We seek your assurance that any discussions between officials and trade unions tomorrow will be no more than exploratory in nature and that we will engage at a Ministerial level thereafter."

Contracts for key NHS workers are largely the same across the UK. Review bodies based in England make recommendations on pay awards, taking evidence from the devolved nations before announcing their advice.

Usually Westminster gives its response to the recommendations and Scotland follows suit. Recently there have been some differences in the speed at which the Scottish Government and Westminster have decided to implement increases.

There was tension between Whitehall and Edinburgh when Scots ministers agreed to implement a deal for nurses and other NHS staff in full, as recommended by arbitration, but Whitehall insisted on staging the settlement.

This prompted a discussion at the St Andrew's House talks yesterday about the need for the devolved administrations to be kept inside the loop of such negotiations. When the ministers learned from officials that this process was under way again they resolved to draft their letter of complaint. Their agreed statement already included a calculated sideswipe at the trend towards the internal market in the NHS in England, stating: "The Scottish Government, the Welsh Assembly Government and the Northern Ireland Government are committed to ensuring that the NHS remains a public service of which our citizens can be justifiably proud."

The three administrations signed up to working together and meeting three times a year. Ms Sturgeon told The Herald: "The meeting was a signal of how the political landscape across the UK had changed dramatically. The view of London no longer applies across the UK."

The Department of Health last night declined to comment.


© All rights reserved. Reproduction in whole or in part without permission is prohibited.



Posted by: scotland only 8% of UK, consumes 11% of social security on 10:52pm Thu 3 Apr 08
Health is devolved, scots wouldnt want the English being involved in pay settlements within Scotland!
Posted by: tris, scotland on 11:05pm Thu 3 Apr 08


Just how far are these people going to go to show that "they are in charge", and our governments are just little councils.

Health is devolved, but Scots and Welsh and Irish aren't clever enough to negotiate big stuff like that so we'll leave it to Alan Johnston?

After all the Dept of Health in England is so adept at negotiations, witness the deal with consultants and then the one with GPs, which they admitted themselves was all wrong and had given the doctors far more money for doing far less work that had even been intended.

Oh yes, leave it to Alan Johnston and the Dept of Health. Heaven help us.

Idiots. Dead men walking though.
Posted by: wisnaeme, wisnae there on 11:17pm Thu 3 Apr 08

... and the dead hand of imperialism claws back powers outwith it's remit by grasping arrogance, deceitful stealth and deception.

Apparently, presumption is not just the prerogative of the Nats.

...and what part do the New Labour supporting unionista comrades play in this deceit? Surely if the unionista comrades are so fearful of this increasing stealthy privatisation of the worker's paradise, they would not involve themselves in secret negotiations with the champions of privatisation without the backing and input of potential allies in their concerns to keep public services precisely that, public?

Shurely some mistake. Aye right.
.

Posted by: scotland only 8% of UK, consumes 11% of social security on 11:44pm Thu 3 Apr 08
Posted by: tris, scotland on 11:05pm today


After all the Dept of Health in England is so adept at negotiations, witness the deal with consultants and then the one with GPs , which they admitted themselves was all wrong and had given the doctors far more money for doing far less work that had even been intended


Ant the person who did the deal was a scot called John Reid!
You shouldnt run your own country men down so much!
Posted by: sid the sceptic, renfrewshire on 11:55pm Thu 3 Apr 08
evening : is this the start of Labours "two way street" regarding powers for our parliment? the arrogance is breathtaking.
Posted by: tris, scotland on 12:11am Fri 4 Apr 08
scotland only 8% of UK wrote:
Posted by: tris, scotland on 11:05pm today
After all the Dept of Health in England is so adept at negotiations, witness the deal with consultants and then the one with GPs , which they admitted themselves was all wrong and had given the doctors far more money for doing far less work that had even been intended
Ant the person who did the deal was a scot called John Reid! You shouldnt run your own country men down so much!


For goodness sake it doesn't matter what nationality he was. I can criticise Scots as well as anyother race. Brown, Browne, and the McNumpty Cairs come in for endless criticism as far as I'm concerned.

John Reid is a horrible wee rat. I always disliked him.

Regardless of who it was that negotiated it, it was a bad deal, and it was done by the Department of Health in England.

We have our own government, and our own Health department, and our own very capable Cabinet Secretary for Health.

We get money to run Health... we don't need the English Department of Health telling us how to spend it. Specially as they are not very good at it.

I

Posted by: britfree, camelon on 1:21am Fri 4 Apr 08
tris, dundee , ol' 8% has no real intrest in scots people except to tell them how "uppity " he finds them . john reid was like a camel coated souvreign ring wearing money lender type always leaning into your personal space to reinforce his menace W o S labourite gangster persona
Posted by: Graham, Glasgow on 1:58am Fri 4 Apr 08
TRIS,12:11AM. cabable, Cabinet Secretary For Health. What a crawler you are tris. Or are you the Capable One!
Posted by: Donald Anderson, glasgow on 4:20am Fri 4 Apr 08
John Reid is a British Nationalist and an Old Firm Unionist. who supports PFI. It is PFI that is ruining and ripping off the Health and other public services.
Posted by: Mike, Edinburgh on 5:57am Fri 4 Apr 08
Graham if you want to see crawlers just have a good look at your crook Wendy. The way she allows Gordon, to touch her up with that big clunking fist is unnatural to say the least.

The actual old time Labourites, have had their operation in one of Gordons retrainment centers, and are all shoiting themselves and hiding in dark corners, wondering where the Socialist past has gone.

Graham you are nowt but a London Controlled Bought and Paid for Numptie, so away and boil your head up Wendy's erky.

You and your Party are nothing but Traitors to the Scottish Nation and are merely dead men walking, as far as Scotland goes.
Posted by: Buris, Larkhall on 6:44am Fri 4 Apr 08
Tell me Donald, how would you get all these new schools and hospitals without PFI? I don't know of any Plan B.
Posted by: David Alexander on 7:19am Fri 4 Apr 08
Buris

I don't know of any Plan B.


I have attached a link to the Scottish Government's Consultation on the role of a Scottish Futures Trust in infrastructure investment in Scotland.

This lays out the framework and asks for comments so you may want to give it the once over.

I believe that Norway run a similar scheme.

http://tinyurl.com/3
ch6xp
Posted by: Van Helsing - Nat Slayer, Lanarkshire on 8:15am Fri 4 Apr 08
Mike wrote:
Graham if you want to see crawlers just have a good look at your crook Wendy. The way she allows Gordon, to touch her up with that big clunking fist is unnatural to say the least. The actual old time Labourites, have had their operation in one of Gordons retrainment centers, and are all shoiting themselves and hiding in dark corners, wondering where the Socialist past has gone. Graham you are nowt but a London Controlled Bought and Paid for Numptie, so away and boil your head up Wendy's erky. You and your Party are nothing but Traitors to the Scottish Nation and are merely dead men walking, as far as Scotland goes.
Oh dear! A nasty Nat. Where do you get this 'dead men walking' crap from? Who says? You? Your Nat pals?
Nobody's 'shoiting themselves' where I come from. Far from it - bring it on! As for traitors - its you Nat @**** for trying to reduce this fine, prosperous country to a Tartan Slovenia. And remember - it's the UK's oil!
Posted by: sid the sceptic, renfrewshire on 8:35am Fri 4 Apr 08
thank you van helsing - you have just reminded me why I don't think we are ready for independence. the number of bigoted ,small minded ,backward thinking , it must be right cos my faither telt me, people that live in scotland is breathtaking .so when someone has a different point of view plan 1 - attack them and hurl abuse at them . dead grown up - not
Posted by: ge, wishaw on 9:05am Fri 4 Apr 08
Van Helsing wrote

Oh dear! A nasty Nat. Where do you get this 'dead men walking' crap from? Who says? You? Your Nat pals?
Nobody's 'shoiting themselves' where I come from. Far from it - bring it on! As for traitors - its you Nat @**** for trying to reduce this fine, prosperous country to a Tartan Slovenia. And remember - it's the UK's oil!


Do you honestly believe that the corrupt and not fit for anything newlabour party is going to get re-elected? How is the weather on the MOON these days. As soon as an election comes along they are out on their ear.

Which means Tory, so not much change their either eh!
Labour = Tory++ end of story

Cant wait for a tory socialist government, got a nice ring to it, then Scotland will fully wake up and vote a Majority SNP administration in Edinburgh leading to Independance.

PS. the oil is in Scotlands teritorial waters = Scotlands oil FACT
Posted by: ge, wishaw on 9:05am Fri 4 Apr 08
Van Helsing wrote

Oh dear! A nasty Nat. Where do you get this 'dead men walking' crap from? Who says? You? Your Nat pals?
Nobody's 'shoiting themselves' where I come from. Far from it - bring it on! As for traitors - its you Nat @**** for trying to reduce this fine, prosperous country to a Tartan Slovenia. And remember - it's the UK's oil!


Do you honestly believe that the corrupt and not fit for anything newlabour party is going to get re-elected? How is the weather on the MOON these days. As soon as an election comes along they are out on their ear.

Which means Tory, so not much change their either eh!
Labour = Tory++ end of story

Cant wait for a tory socialist government, got a nice ring to it, then Scotland will fully wake up and vote a Majority SNP administration in Edinburgh leading to Independance.

PS. the oil is in Scotlands teritorial waters = Scotlands oil FACT
Posted by: Bill, Blantyre on 9:19am Fri 4 Apr 08
If health is devolved to the regions as the nationalist posters maintain, why do they insist on participating in English discussions on their health service? Do the nationalists now insist on dictating to England on all aspects of their life? Strangs people.
Posted by: Wardog, Buckie on 10:24am Fri 4 Apr 08
scotland only 8% of UK wrote:
Health is devolved, scots wouldnt want the English being involved in pay settlements within Scotland!

The UK Government sets pay deals you imbecile.

The Devolved parliament's merely put them into action

Posted by: tormad, the moon on 10:25am Fri 4 Apr 08
Bill, get a grip mate London holds all the power of the economy so it is right to complain about how it shares out the funds to all parts of the (for the time being) UK . By the way what is a strangs person.
Posted by: Dr Bill Reynolds, Salo,Finland on 11:11am Fri 4 Apr 08
I don't know whether I want to reduce Scotland(5 million people) to a tartan Slovenia (just under 2 million).Lets think about it.Like Scotland they are rich in resources,country is naturally good looking and they are relatively affluent.Their tourism is reported to be moving up the hit parade very rapidly.They are full members of the EU (currently have the presidency of the EU) and their children are well educated.I recently met a group of Slovenian children in Copenhagen who spoke excellant English and were very well informed about Europe and global issues.They can compete in sports as Slovenia and they are a peaceful nation.I would take all of that.In many respects they might (sadly9even be outperforming Scotland.

The real message,is that size of nations nowdays,appears to have little to do with affluence,an ability to take good care of your citizens,and to be international.There are many other examples in Europe.

Posted by: Dr Bill Reynolds, Salo,Finland on 11:26am Fri 4 Apr 08
Very interesting to observe the parliaments in Scotland,Northern Ireland and Wales collaborating in areas of mutual interest..It certainly illustrates that the centralisation of power in London needs a radical "shake up".The actions of devolved governments also show that concern about the actions of the westminster government are not resticted to Scotland or a single political party.The concerns of the governments in Scotland ,Wales and Northern Ireland are to serve their electorate and to create parliaments of equal status that will collaborate when necessary,but take their own decisions.It has nothing to do with disliking anyone on grounds of ethnicity,or country of origin.
Posted by: Astonished, Inverclyde on 11:39am Fri 4 Apr 08
"Usually Westminster gives its response to the recommendations and Scotland follows suit. "

Not any more as the numpties are not in power.

Alan Johnson and the relevant (irrelevant?) civil servants who advise him should resign. Or be sacked.
Posted by: Toophingers, Bellshill. on 12:09pm Fri 4 Apr 08
scotland only 8% of UK wrote:
Health is devolved, scots wouldnt want the English being involved in pay settlements within Scotland!
Slipped up again,Mr 8%. It isn't the English its three 'colonies' are rebelling against, or are having to constantly fight tooth and nail to get what is rightly theirs,its the sickening Scottish renegades - including the Wee Yin's prevaricating brother - controlling Westminster.
Posted by: Wallace, Perth on 12:13pm Fri 4 Apr 08
Just signed in and read the posts. Particularly good ones from Doctor Bill Reynolds, as usual. However, Doctor Bill, a word to the wise, don't waste your time trying to educate White Vanman about Slovenia. He is obviously content to belittle that newly (and proudly) independent nation without the slightest knowledge of up-to-date conditions now existing there. Like the rest of his unionist mushrooms, he is happy wallowing in ordure, which is probably why they spout so much of it in their inane and abusive posts.
Posted by: Toophingers, Bellshill. on 12:22pm Fri 4 Apr 08
Tris.Scotland, 12.11 am 'John Reid is a horrible wee rat'.
I have been asked by Roland Rat - who has not yet received his Email verification - to strongly object to him and his breed being linked in any way with this sick making creature.
Posted by: tris, scotland on 1:11pm Fri 4 Apr 08

Troophingers, (12.22) could you please pass my sincere apologies to Roland, as you sem to be in contact with him.

Assure him I did not mean to insult him and his breed and my words did not accurately reflect my thoughts, or I mis-spoke, or I opened my big fat mouth and let my belly rumble... He is indeed far more agreeable that John Reid (even if he does have a rather annoying laugh).

Graham (1.58). I'm at a loss to undersand why you would think me a crawler because I gave Nichola her title. I sometimes refer to the Queen or the Prime Minister, and that doesn't mean I'm crawling to either of them. Even you must see that.
Posted by: Graham, Glasgow on 1:51pm Fri 4 Apr 08
Tris,1:11pm. Our very own capable! Thats crawling. In fact thats all you SNP lot do. You are always banging the Drum of the SNP MSP's. Self glorification indeed. Its nae wonder they are a bunch of swelt heided numpties.
Posted by: Oscar on 2:05pm Fri 4 Apr 08
It's time to break up the NHS. They’ve had thousands of years to work on it but are we immortal? No. It's time to up the stakes, if a patient dies, then it's only fair that the doctor is buried with them, alive.
Posted by: tris, scotland on 2:34pm Fri 4 Apr 08
Graham wrote:
Tris,1:11pm. Our very own capable! Thats crawling. In fact thats all you SNP lot do. You are always banging the Drum of the SNP MSP's. Self glorification indeed. Its nae wonder they are a bunch of swelt heided numpties.

Not exactly what I said, but, that apart, she is capable, and she is ours, and I'm quite happy to admit capability regardless of party or of nation.

In my humble opinion, Hillary Benn was a capable International Development Secretary, Ken Clarke was a capable Chancellor.

In any case it is only crawling if the person being talked about is likely to read what was said and to recognise who said it. Othrwise it is only praise. Hillary, Ken and Nicola aren't gonna be round tonight offering to buy me a pint you know.
Posted by: Graham, Glasgow on 7:26pm Fri 4 Apr 08
tris,2:34pm. Praising a Labour and Tory man indeed. Who is Nicola!
Posted by: JC on 7:49pm Fri 4 Apr 08
..once again the nats stir up trouble with the UK government and "leak" a letter to the press and cry Boo Hoo!
It's not as if Nicola Sturgeon is the most talented of the nats anyway.
Posted by: sam, greenock on 7:51pm Fri 4 Apr 08
Graham wrote:
Tris,1:11pm. Our very own capable! Thats crawling. In fact thats all you SNP lot do. You are always banging the Drum of the SNP MSP's. Self glorification indeed. Its nae wonder they are a bunch of swelt heided numpties.
Well at least oor nicola doesn't give herself 10/10
Posted by: jazzdrum, glasgow on 8:03pm Fri 4 Apr 08
sorry Graham,
You need to learn to read and check out the ground force in scotand and them you may wonder why you have been such a lemming.
Posted by: Graham, Glasgow on 8:03pm Fri 4 Apr 08
Sam,7:51pm. There ye go Sam, OOR Nicola.You must be related!
Posted by: Graham, Glasgow on 8:10pm Fri 4 Apr 08
jazz,8:03pm. ground force. I did not watch that one on the telly.
Posted by: tris, scotland on 8:15pm Fri 4 Apr 08
Graham wrote:
tris,2:34pm. Praising a Labour and Tory man indeed. Who is Nicola!

I praise people I think are good, and criticise ones I think are bad. |Their nationalitites and parties don't really come ion to it.

In the recent past I've had good things to say on these boards for Jack McConnell and Annabel Goldie. I think I once said something vaguely nice about Princess Anne.

Nicola is the Cabinet Secretary for Health and Deputy First Minister, as fine ya know.
Posted by: Graham, Glasgow on 8:36pm Fri 4 Apr 08
Naw Nicola is the one that used parliament privilage to have a go at the staff of an Embra HOSPITAL FOR ALLEGEDLY FAILING TO HELP A PATIENT that turned out to be a member of the SNP.THE PATIENT DID NOT GO THROUGH THE NORMAL CHANNELS THAT WE PLEBS HAVE TO GO THROUGH. THE CASE WAS THROWN OOT EFTER INVESTIGATION. NICOLA IS NO FRIEND OF THE WORKING CLASS. SHE IS JUST A WEE TARTAN TORY. THEY WILL BE EXPOSED FOR WHAT THEY ARE!
Posted by: Oscar on 8:46pm Fri 4 Apr 08
Ah an entire post in capitals, the sign of dribbling mentalism.
Posted by: Graham, Glasgow on 9:05pm Fri 4 Apr 08
naw Jist pressin the rang KeYS YE DICK.
Posted by: soloman, Stirling on 12:37am Sat 5 Apr 08
I wonder why certain civil service jobs carry the perk of PRIVATE HEALTH CARE does someone somewhere know something?
So what of the national health service, is it still relevant in The Un- United Kingdom
Add your comment
Please note: to publish your comment you must be registered on this site. If you are already registered, please enter your details below.
Email:
Password:
spacer
 IN YOUR AREA
 
Herald Appointments - Every Friday
Travel Shop
Airport Parking
Travel Insurance
Copyright © 2008 Newsquest (Herald & Times) Limited. All Rights Reserved   
Sitemap :: Circulation :: Syndication :: Advertising :: About Us :: Terms of Use