SNP plans for Union ‘backward looking’ says Brown
Independence for Scotland was yesterday branded backward-looking by Gordon Brown, in a Scottish Labour conference speech that argued barriers should be coming down rather than raised.
The Prime Minister argued that Scots' values can have more influence on world affairs through being part of a larger country, but his claim that independence would make it more difficult to travel and trade with the rest of Britain was dismissed as "scare-mongering nonsense" by the SNP.
Labour's Holyrood leader, Wendy Alexander, will today focus the party's conference theme of pinning the blame for council cuts on SNP ministers and councillors.
The opening day of the Aviemore conference heard attacks, particularly over a programme
of cuts at SNP-led Aberdeen Council.
Ms Alexander is to set out how she hopes to regain power at Holyrood, saying "the fightback has begun", but she does so while facing ridicule for awarding her leadership performance "10 out of 10".
A source close to SNP leader Alex Salmond compared this with investigations into her illegal campaign donation and polling, saying: "This is another example of Wendy not being good with figures. You don't get to write your own report card in politics, and the people's verdict is that she is 75 points behind Alex Salmond."
The Labour leader faced stinging criticism from former Labour minister Brian Wilson who attacked moves towards more devolved powers for Holyrood. Describing the Scottish Parliament Commission as "incremental nonsense", he said Ms Alexander is one of those "over the past 20 years who have decided politics is really about constitutions and commissions and the more you set up the better life must be".
Saying the only beneficiaries will be Nationalists, Mr Wilson said: "I fail to understand why the people who have created Labour's difficulties in Scotland learn nothing, forget nothing and just keep on making the same mistakes."
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Posted by: Stevie, Bo'ness on 12:03am Sat 29 Mar 08
Still pedalling the same old lies about passports and border guards, Gordon?!
Still pedalling the same old lies about passports and border guards, Gordon?!
Posted by: Mrs I P Knightly, Scotland on 12:05am Sat 29 Mar 08
The Labour leader faced stinging criticism from former Labour minister Brian Wilson who attacked moves towards more devolved powers for Holyrood. Describing the Scottish Parliament Commission as "incremental nonsense", he said Ms Alexander is one of those "over the past 20 years who have decided politics is really about constitutions and commissions and the more you set up the better life must be".
Saying the only beneficiaries will be Nationalists, Mr Wilson said: "I fail to understand why the people who have created Labour's difficulties in Scotland learn nothing, forget nothing and just keep on making the same mistakes."
- first time I have agreed with Brian for some time.
The Labour leader faced stinging criticism from former Labour minister Brian Wilson who attacked moves towards more devolved powers for Holyrood. Describing the Scottish Parliament Commission as "incremental nonsense", he said Ms Alexander is one of those "over the past 20 years who have decided politics is really about constitutions and commissions and the more you set up the better life must be".
Saying the only beneficiaries will be Nationalists, Mr Wilson said: "I fail to understand why the people who have created Labour's difficulties in Scotland learn nothing, forget nothing and just keep on making the same mistakes."
- first time I have agreed with Brian for some time.
Posted by: Scotsgait, www.scotsgait.co.uk on 12:09am Sat 29 Mar 08
10 out of 10 for Wendy ? Which one of the many spin-doctors she's had over the past few months made that one up ?
If what we've seen so far is representative of her best performance, please, someone, safe us from the worst !
__________
Should we allow the creation of hybrid human-animal embryos for research purposes ? Cast your vote in the latest Scotsgait poll.
10 out of 10 for Wendy ? Which one of the many spin-doctors she's had over the past few months made that one up ?
If what we've seen so far is representative of her best performance, please, someone, safe us from the worst !
__________
Should we allow the creation of hybrid human-animal embryos for research purposes ? Cast your vote in the latest Scotsgait poll.
Posted by: george alexander, north lanarkshire on 12:11am Sat 29 Mar 08
[quote]Independence for Scotland was yesterday branded backward-looking by Gordon Brown, in a Scottish Labour conference speech that argued barriers should be coming down rather than raised.[/quote]
What barriers are to come down? What barriers will be erected by representing yourself on the world stage? There are no barriers within the EU, there are no barriers between the Irish republic and the current U.K. There will be no barriers between Scotland and England, save for those that exist only in the minds of Unionists.
His speech was uninspiting drivel, the same old clapped out rhetoric that we have been hearing for years. I note that Douglas makes no mention of the pathetic "We have relations in England" tripe. Two paragraphs is all that even Fraser will allot this rubbish.
One last point, will anyone from the media ask a labour MSP why they were so quiet when the tightest financial settlement in ten years was handed to Scotland, only now to start crying 'CUTS' and pointing to a Scottish Government who have actually given a bigger increase to our councils than they themselves had been given by Westminster?
Independence for Scotland was yesterday branded backward-looking by Gordon Brown, in a Scottish Labour conference speech that argued barriers should be coming down rather than raised.
What barriers are to come down? What barriers will be erected by representing yourself on the world stage? There are no barriers within the EU, there are no barriers between the Irish republic and the current U.K. There will be no barriers between Scotland and England, save for those that exist only in the minds of Unionists.
His speech was uninspiting drivel, the same old clapped out rhetoric that we have been hearing for years. I note that Douglas makes no mention of the pathetic "We have relations in England" tripe. Two paragraphs is all that even Fraser will allot this rubbish.
One last point, will anyone from the media ask a labour MSP why they were so quiet when the tightest financial settlement in ten years was handed to Scotland, only now to start crying 'CUTS' and pointing to a Scottish Government who have actually given a bigger increase to our councils than they themselves had been given by Westminster?
Posted by: John F on 12:17am Sat 29 Mar 08
Neither Gordon nor Wendy have had their leadership endorsed by the people via UK general election or a Scottish election.
Neither Gordon nor Wendy have had their leadership endorsed by the people via UK general election or a Scottish election.
Posted by: Tired of excuses, Galashiels on 12:20am Sat 29 Mar 08
[quote]The Prime Minister argued that Scots' values can have more influence on world affairs through being part of a larger country,[/quote]
More influence on things like going to war in Iraq for oil, thinly disguised by sexed up WMD claims ??
Oooops foot in mouth moment for Gordo surely ?
Think about it for a second, with independance and our own oil , on top of the massive potential for renewables ..........
We really don't need to be giving our oil so that Westminster can sell it to fund its' *cough* world affairs.
And that is just the tip of the Independance iceberg preparing to meet the Labour Titanic.
The Prime Minister argued that Scots' values can have more influence on world affairs through being part of a larger country,
More influence on things like going to war in Iraq for oil, thinly disguised by sexed up WMD claims ??
Oooops foot in mouth moment for Gordo surely ?
Think about it for a second, with independance and our own oil , on top of the massive potential for renewables ..........
We really don't need to be giving our oil so that Westminster can sell it to fund its' *cough* world affairs.
And that is just the tip of the Independance iceberg preparing to meet the Labour Titanic.
Posted by: jonny bond, glasgow on 12:21am Sat 29 Mar 08
wendy 10 out of 10 for getting away with well everything.
wendy 10 out of 10 for getting away with well everything.
Posted by: jonny bond, glasgow on 12:24am Sat 29 Mar 08
When a woman explodes a nuke because she had pmt real bad are we all going to say well its to be expected and she was informed wrongly it would be allright.
When a woman explodes a nuke because she had pmt real bad are we all going to say well its to be expected and she was informed wrongly it would be allright.
Posted by: redc;liffe62, brisbane on hols on 12:27am Sat 29 Mar 08
the border control comments were drivel. as was most of it.
admit the mistakes, say we were arrogant, our old systems needed fixing, and we will learn from our mistakes.
rather than assessing how have we done, err what about 10 out of 10!
the mindset is clearly different to the game on the ground.
when even the great lanarkshire unwashed question your party, the first time since the war, then your rants and raves about the nasty snp have less credence. almost worked in may last year though, so why change something that had a short term success in re garnering votes.
one more week of media negativity and labour would have won last year as people started to believe the brown and blair fairy tale. not this time i would suggest.
labour's call for a review of the barnett formula could allow for new ideas, based on honesty, such as accepting the snp view that revenue from oil and gas to at least be assigned to scotland as their origin rather than as london consolidated revenue.
but the chance of a viewpoint in edinburgh varing from london is less than ever, and will be contractually bound in place so that people know they have to do what gordon says.
sad, as labour still have a lot to offer if they changed their approach, but they are totally self absorbed, egomaniacal and self indulgent.
the border control comments were drivel. as was most of it.
admit the mistakes, say we were arrogant, our old systems needed fixing, and we will learn from our mistakes.
rather than assessing how have we done, err what about 10 out of 10!
the mindset is clearly different to the game on the ground.
when even the great lanarkshire unwashed question your party, the first time since the war, then your rants and raves about the nasty snp have less credence. almost worked in may last year though, so why change something that had a short term success in re garnering votes.
one more week of media negativity and labour would have won last year as people started to believe the brown and blair fairy tale. not this time i would suggest.
labour's call for a review of the barnett formula could allow for new ideas, based on honesty, such as accepting the snp view that revenue from oil and gas to at least be assigned to scotland as their origin rather than as london consolidated revenue.
but the chance of a viewpoint in edinburgh varing from london is less than ever, and will be contractually bound in place so that people know they have to do what gordon says.
sad, as labour still have a lot to offer if they changed their approach, but they are totally self absorbed, egomaniacal and self indulgent.
Posted by: martin, dundee on 12:30am Sat 29 Mar 08
The scare tactics didnt work before the last election and they wont work now.It merely goes to show the contempt Brown has for the Scottish voters.
The Labour Party MPs in Scotland must know by now that Gordon Brown cannot win the next UK election.If they dont know it they had better wise up because many of them are going to lose their seats.When the Tories win(with an English majority) Scotland is going to need a party that will protect the country from Anglo-centric, anti-Scottish policies.We had it during the Thatcher years and Labour could do nothing to save us from the Poll tax and an economic strategy that suited the South of England but created mass unemployment here.
Ask the question.Would these policies have been implemented if the SNP had been riding high in the polls?Of course not.So Brown should tell the truth.When he finally loses power only the SNP can guarantee to protect Scotland.No amount of Labour MPs up here can do that.
The scare tactics didnt work before the last election and they wont work now.It merely goes to show the contempt Brown has for the Scottish voters.
The Labour Party MPs in Scotland must know by now that Gordon Brown cannot win the next UK election.If they dont know it they had better wise up because many of them are going to lose their seats.When the Tories win(with an English majority) Scotland is going to need a party that will protect the country from Anglo-centric, anti-Scottish policies.We had it during the Thatcher years and Labour could do nothing to save us from the Poll tax and an economic strategy that suited the South of England but created mass unemployment here.
Ask the question.Would these policies have been implemented if the SNP had been riding high in the polls?Of course not.So Brown should tell the truth.When he finally loses power only the SNP can guarantee to protect Scotland.No amount of Labour MPs up here can do that.
Posted by: Wullie, Aberdeen on 12:36am Sat 29 Mar 08
Gordon Broon. vomit inducing.
Gordon Broon. vomit inducing.
Posted by: glaswegian, Glasgow on 12:37am Sat 29 Mar 08
"The Prime Minister argued that Scots' values can have more influence on world affairs through being part of a larger country..."
Does he mean Iraq? Scotland's values would have been better served as an independent nation condemning the illegal invasion than as a devolved region with no power over our own foreign policy.
And world affairs aside, how about Scots values having more influence in Scotland? Trident, nuclear power, the treatment of asylum seekers, fisheries policy, Post Office closures... Seems to me the views of most Scots on these and many other important issues would be better represented by a sovereign Scottish government in Edinburgh than the New Labour government in London.
"The Prime Minister argued that Scots' values can have more influence on world affairs through being part of a larger country..."
Does he mean Iraq? Scotland's values would have been better served as an independent nation condemning the illegal invasion than as a devolved region with no power over our own foreign policy.
And world affairs aside, how about Scots values having more influence in Scotland? Trident, nuclear power, the treatment of asylum seekers, fisheries policy, Post Office closures... Seems to me the views of most Scots on these and many other important issues would be better represented by a sovereign Scottish government in Edinburgh than the New Labour government in London.
Posted by: Jimmy fae the West, Embra on 12:40am Sat 29 Mar 08
[quote]Labour's Holyrood leader, Wendy Alexander, will today focus the party's conference theme of pinning the blame for council cuts on SNP ministers and councillors.[/quote]
When New labour in Scotland are so at odds with New Labour in London, you just know things are gonna get nasty again.
If the SNP are so backward thinking why are labour so determined to regain Energy policy and transport from the grasp of Edinburgh? Did the Herald really carry the above quote without feeling the need to point out that It was Alexander's [bold]Labour who cut Scotland's grant [/bold] after Gordon Brown chickened out of his inaugural election. No democracy for Britain or the Scots from Labour. To repeat Martin, Dundee, - [italic]Scotland is going to need a party that will protect the country from anti-Scottish policies.[/italic]
Labour's Holyrood leader, Wendy Alexander, will today focus the party's conference theme of pinning the blame for council cuts on SNP ministers and councillors.
When New labour in Scotland are so at odds with New Labour in London, you just know things are gonna get nasty again.
If the SNP are so backward thinking why are labour so determined to regain Energy policy and transport from the grasp of Edinburgh? Did the Herald really carry the above quote without feeling the need to point out that It was Alexander's
Labour who cut Scotland's grant after Gordon Brown chickened out of his inaugural election. No democracy for Britain or the Scots from Labour. To repeat Martin, Dundee, -
Scotland is going to need a party that will protect the country from anti-Scottish policies. Posted by: glaswegian, Glasgow on 12:41am Sat 29 Mar 08
"Ms Alexander awarded her leadership performance 10 out of 10".
Wish I'd had her marking my Maths 'O' Grade.
"Ms Alexander awarded her leadership performance 10 out of 10".
Wish I'd had her marking my Maths 'O' Grade.
Posted by: Traquir, Alba on 12:42am Sat 29 Mar 08
The only thing that is backward looking is Britain
which still yearns for its glory days of Empire when
it was a real world power. They pathetically still
try and act like a real world power and yes the Scots
get more influence in world affairs by being associated
with warmongering Britain - it is not type of influence
that we want , guilt by association.
Scotland does not need nor want any
more influence than would be normal for
a small independent country as opposed
to the British obesession of having to
be a the top table lest they lose their status.
The only thing that is backward looking is Britain
which still yearns for its glory days of Empire when
it was a real world power. They pathetically still
try and act like a real world power and yes the Scots
get more influence in world affairs by being associated
with warmongering Britain - it is not type of influence
that we want , guilt by association.
Scotland does not need nor want any
more influence than would be normal for
a small independent country as opposed
to the British obesession of having to
be a the top table lest they lose their status.
Posted by: David on 12:48am Sat 29 Mar 08
[bold]Brown and Wendy are just so sad. I almost pity them till I remember they are destroying Scotland for the sake of their careers.[/bold]
Brown and Wendy are just so sad. I almost pity them till I remember they are destroying Scotland for the sake of their careers. Posted by: exile, far away on 12:49am Sat 29 Mar 08
Just noticed on the BBC webcast today that Gordy seems to do his funny mouth thing whenever he's telling a porky.
Just noticed on the BBC webcast today that Gordy seems to do his funny mouth thing whenever he's telling a porky.
Posted by: exile, far away on 12:54am Sat 29 Mar 08
You ARE taking the **** Graham, right?
You ARE taking the **** Graham, right?
Posted by: Mrs I P Knightly, Scotland on 12:55am Sat 29 Mar 08
[quote][bold]exile[/bold] wrote:
Just noticed on the BBC webcast today that Gordy seems to do his funny mouth thing whenever he's telling a porky.[/quote] he can lie out of both sides of his mouth at the same time
exile wrote:
Just noticed on the BBC webcast today that Gordy seems to do his funny mouth thing whenever he's telling a porky.
he can lie out of both sides of his mouth at the same time
Posted by: exile, far away on 12:55am Sat 29 Mar 08
Oops, it seems I wrote a naughty word.
Oops, it seems I wrote a naughty word.
Posted by: britfree, camelon on 12:57am Sat 29 Mar 08
i dont know about the rest of you , but i have a extremely positive agenda for the coming state , an independent foreign policy . an enlightened welfare state , that convinces all citizens to participate. one that values its own story whilst having room for the stories of others . i didnt realise that amounted to narrow nationalism .
i dont know about the rest of you , but i have a extremely positive agenda for the coming state , an independent foreign policy . an enlightened welfare state , that convinces all citizens to participate. one that values its own story whilst having room for the stories of others . i didnt realise that amounted to narrow nationalism .
Posted by: exile, far away on 12:57am Sat 29 Mar 08
Oh Gordy is a bar steward, and so say all of us...
Oh Gordy is a bar steward, and so say all of us...
Posted by: Thyme Kelpie on 1:06am Sat 29 Mar 08
Well Planet NuLabour seems to be spinning away in its own galaxy somewhere.
Broon and Wendy are on a cloud of unreality it appears - still not accepted last May.
10/10 Wendy would not pass as a SQA marker, but maybe GCSE where they do not seem as particular.
Maybe Broonie should come home more? Second thoughts NO
Well Planet NuLabour seems to be spinning away in its own galaxy somewhere.
Broon and Wendy are on a cloud of unreality it appears - still not accepted last May.
10/10 Wendy would not pass as a SQA marker, but maybe GCSE where they do not seem as particular.
Maybe Broonie should come home more? Second thoughts NO
Posted by: exile, far away on 1:08am Sat 29 Mar 08
I think some of the labourites may actually believe their bizarre notion of the SNP as backward-looking. They seem to inhabit a strange quasi-leninist mental universe where 'nationalist' equates with all that is bad and retrograde. They don't seem to realise the historical fact that nationalism (nation states) and liberal (=representative) democracy emerged together and are interdependent on each other. Far from being backward-looking, the SNP is the one truly progressive force in Scottish politics today, trying to drag Scotland kicking and screaming into the modern world.
Apart from the mouth thing today, I got the distinct impression Gordy is trying to metamorphose into Tony Blair. It's rather scary.
I think some of the labourites may actually believe their bizarre notion of the SNP as backward-looking. They seem to inhabit a strange quasi-leninist mental universe where 'nationalist' equates with all that is bad and retrograde. They don't seem to realise the historical fact that nationalism (nation states) and liberal (=representative) democracy emerged together and are interdependent on each other. Far from being backward-looking, the SNP is the one truly progressive force in Scottish politics today, trying to drag Scotland kicking and screaming into the modern world.
Apart from the mouth thing today, I got the distinct impression Gordy is trying to metamorphose into Tony Blair. It's rather scary.
Posted by: gurugordon, US on 1:35am Sat 29 Mar 08
Direction depends on the perspective of the viewer. The SNP plans are only backward-looking when you have your head stuck firmly in your rear orifice!
Direction depends on the perspective of the viewer. The SNP plans are only backward-looking when you have your head stuck firmly in your rear orifice!
Posted by: Ronald, Glasgow on 1:40am Sat 29 Mar 08
My fondest memory of dear Brian Wilson, a man once described by thre ebc as "a firey left-winger",was when he headed up a mob which pretended to oppose that old animal - and Gordon Browns soul-mate - Margaret Hilda Thatcher's Poll Tax.
It was called the "Stop-It" Campaign and did precisely NOTHING!
Equally amusing was his "hand wringing concerns over the homeless - this at a time when he owned eight residency's.
So, one almost feels sorry for that crook Wee Wendy, on being castigated by a filthy right-wing scumbag like Wilson.
The only thing that surprises me about Wison is that he has not followed his fellow horror, Lord George Roberson in taking the Ermine. But with his track record in public life it can only be a matter of time before his "service" is recognised.
Meantime, get back to your "consultancys" with those nuclear power
conglomerates Brian!
My fondest memory of dear Brian Wilson, a man once described by thre ebc as "a firey left-winger",was when he headed up a mob which pretended to oppose that old animal - and Gordon Browns soul-mate - Margaret Hilda Thatcher's Poll Tax.
It was called the "Stop-It" Campaign and did precisely NOTHING!
Equally amusing was his "hand wringing concerns over the homeless - this at a time when he owned eight residency's.
So, one almost feels sorry for that crook Wee Wendy, on being castigated by a filthy right-wing scumbag like Wilson.
The only thing that surprises me about Wison is that he has not followed his fellow horror, Lord George Roberson in taking the Ermine. But with his track record in public life it can only be a matter of time before his "service" is recognised.
Meantime, get back to your "consultancys" with those nuclear power
conglomerates Brian!
Posted by: clochoderic, renfrashur on 1:53am Sat 29 Mar 08
A good point made by John F. at 12.17.
Neither of these leaders who are praising each other`s achievements has been appointed by free election in their party, let alone in any popular vote.
Brown and Alexander have no authority to assert anything as leaders until they have been tested in a poll.
Any poll.
A good point made by John F. at 12.17.
Neither of these leaders who are praising each other`s achievements has been appointed by free election in their party, let alone in any popular vote.
Brown and Alexander have no authority to assert anything as leaders until they have been tested in a poll.
Any poll.
Posted by: Alex Porter, Madrid on 2:43am Sat 29 Mar 08
The reactions to Broonitis show that no-one wants his debate. He is a spiteful nonentity that reckons he's relevant not realising he's at least 10 years out of date. A bit like Gorbachov arguing for the maintenance of the Soviet Union after everyone knew it was over.
Really, even if the fans in the media run the story not even they believe it had any resonance at all. If only the would acknowledge that no-one here cares about London feelings regarding politics. We just don't and all the print in the world ain't gonnie change that!
The reactions to Broonitis show that no-one wants his debate. He is a spiteful nonentity that reckons he's relevant not realising he's at least 10 years out of date. A bit like Gorbachov arguing for the maintenance of the Soviet Union after everyone knew it was over.
Really, even if the fans in the media run the story not even they believe it had any resonance at all. If only the would acknowledge that no-one here cares about London feelings regarding politics. We just don't and all the print in the world ain't gonnie change that!
Posted by: Joe Middleton, Edinburgh on 2:43am Sat 29 Mar 08
Ms Alexander said she was not a Gordon Brown puppet
During the web chat, driven by questions from BBC viewers, listeners and online users, she was asked to score herself out of 10 for her performance since being elected leader unopposed in September last year.
"Rising all the time, I think is the answer," said Ms Alexander, adding: "Ten out of 10, 10 out of 10."
And Ms Alexander also dismissed claims of arrogance against Labour politicians and said her party's fight back was under way.
She added: "Frankly, as I look across the other benches in the parliament, I don't think the arrogance is on our side.
"I think that what people are looking for are politicians who are willing to listen, I think you will see this week that conference is listening and learning."
Aye right! It's obvious that Labour no longer believe in the claim of right and don't want Scots to decide their own future.
Game set and match to SNP.
Ms Alexander said she was not a Gordon Brown puppet
During the web chat, driven by questions from BBC viewers, listeners and online users, she was asked to score herself out of 10 for her performance since being elected leader unopposed in September last year.
"Rising all the time, I think is the answer," said Ms Alexander, adding: "Ten out of 10, 10 out of 10."
And Ms Alexander also dismissed claims of arrogance against Labour politicians and said her party's fight back was under way.
She added: "Frankly, as I look across the other benches in the parliament, I don't think the arrogance is on our side.
"I think that what people are looking for are politicians who are willing to listen, I think you will see this week that conference is listening and learning."
Aye right! It's obvious that Labour no longer believe in the claim of right and don't want Scots to decide their own future.
Game set and match to SNP.
Posted by: Donald Anderson, glasgow on 2:45am Sat 29 Mar 08
[quote]SNP plans for Union ‘backward looking’ says Brown. The Labour leader faced stinging criticism from former Labour minister Brian Wilson who attacked moves towards more devolved powers for Holyrood.[/quote]
Celtic Board member speaks.
Will the Conference empty today as their Christian festival kicks off in Glasgow, while they blow their expenses in the bar?
SNP plans for Union ‘backward looking’ says Brown. The Labour leader faced stinging criticism from former Labour minister Brian Wilson who attacked moves towards more devolved powers for Holyrood.
Celtic Board member speaks.
Will the Conference empty today as their Christian festival kicks off in Glasgow, while they blow their expenses in the bar?
Posted by: Edward, Edinburgh on 3:25am Sat 29 Mar 08
Labour - devoid of any original ideas or thinking
Labour - devoid of any belief in Scotland
Labour -devoid of any future
Soon to be appearing on the History channel
The Party built by the people, for the people that lost its way at the end of the 20th century and finally faded away at the beginning of the 21st century
Labour - devoid of any original ideas or thinking
Labour - devoid of any belief in Scotland
Labour -devoid of any future
Soon to be appearing on the History channel
The Party built by the people, for the people that lost its way at the end of the 20th century and finally faded away at the beginning of the 21st century
Posted by: clochoderic, renfrashur on 3:33am Sat 29 Mar 08
You make your point flippantly Donald but it does fit into the weird kaleidoscope of Labour party thinking.
The old firm is an instrument of social division. Now labour minded tims and unionist huns are embraced in a political death hug.
A plague on both their houses.
You make your point flippantly Donald but it does fit into the weird kaleidoscope of Labour party thinking.
The old firm is an instrument of social division. Now labour minded tims and unionist huns are embraced in a political death hug.
A plague on both their houses.
Posted by: Watson, Irvine on 5:07am Sat 29 Mar 08
What a disillusioned fool Brown is. Wendy to be the next First Minister? What planet it this man on? Then the performing seals all clapped on time, what a triumph.
What a disillusioned fool Brown is. Wendy to be the next First Minister? What planet it this man on? Then the performing seals all clapped on time, what a triumph.
Posted by: Lobeydosser, Woodlands Road on 5:25am Sat 29 Mar 08
I think Gordon Brown is talking piffle; Scots will still have influence abroad. If you take the Irish example, there are Irish all over the world in professional work and in positions of power within the EU commission, their influence has helped Ireland get EU money to improve their road infrastructure (any chance of some dosh for the A82?) Also a lot of Irish Passport holders are used by UK organisations to do the UKs bidding where those with British Passports would be unwelcomed.
And as for barriers; I think it may only be in their minds, although I would not put it past the current Labour administration to put up border crossing check-points to restrict trade and find some spin to justify it; it would be illegal though.
Is Gordon Brown that paranoid that a new state on his northern border may have a different view on issues from his own? For example prior to the gulf war we may have agreed with the Labour party that Sadam Hussein was a nasty dictator and had to be removed, but the Scots view may have been that all peaceful and legal means should be used to remove him but not invasion. So we would agree on the problem but not the solution - whats wrong with that? Also in this situation I wonder what political leverage would be used to winkle a Battle Group of Scottish Troops to join such an escapade.
I think Gordon Brown is talking piffle; Scots will still have influence abroad. If you take the Irish example, there are Irish all over the world in professional work and in positions of power within the EU commission, their influence has helped Ireland get EU money to improve their road infrastructure (any chance of some dosh for the A82?) Also a lot of Irish Passport holders are used by UK organisations to do the UKs bidding where those with British Passports would be unwelcomed.
And as for barriers; I think it may only be in their minds, although I would not put it past the current Labour administration to put up border crossing check-points to restrict trade and find some spin to justify it; it would be illegal though.
Is Gordon Brown that paranoid that a new state on his northern border may have a different view on issues from his own? For example prior to the gulf war we may have agreed with the Labour party that Sadam Hussein was a nasty dictator and had to be removed, but the Scots view may have been that all peaceful and legal means should be used to remove him but not invasion. So we would agree on the problem but not the solution - whats wrong with that? Also in this situation I wonder what political leverage would be used to winkle a Battle Group of Scottish Troops to join such an escapade.
Posted by: ex labour voter, glasgow on 5:49am Sat 29 Mar 08
"Independence for Scotland was yesterday branded backward-looking by Gordon Brown",
Mr broon you are an ignorant fool .
"Independence for Scotland was yesterday branded backward-looking by Gordon Brown",
Mr broon you are an ignorant fool .
Posted by: Jock in the Box, edinburgh on 7:09am Sat 29 Mar 08
How can a future independence be backward looking? Is this because we were once independent ?
If he can answer that then presumably the Act of Union was also a step backward from our position in 1706?
This is (as one has come to expect) meaningless drivel which the Labour faithful (parrot brain mentality required)will now go and sqwawk all over Scotland secure in the knowledge that both Gordon (the see all, know all, wisdom) and the Daily Retard have confirmed that it is so.
[bold]The only thing thats backward are the bird brains who attended Aviemore and vote NEW LABOUR,[/bold]
How can a future independence be backward looking? Is this because we were once independent ?
If he can answer that then presumably the Act of Union was also a step backward from our position in 1706?
This is (as one has come to expect) meaningless drivel which the Labour faithful (parrot brain mentality required)will now go and sqwawk all over Scotland secure in the knowledge that both Gordon (the see all, know all, wisdom) and the Daily Retard have confirmed that it is so.
The only thing thats backward are the bird brains who attended Aviemore and vote NEW LABOUR, Posted by: Quine, aberdeen on 7:16am Sat 29 Mar 08
Here we go again.
Where have a heard this before? Actually it is the soundtrack to my life. Sorry tho Gordy, it hasn't managed to convince me that I am backward looking, or parochial, or racist/anti english. Funny how there was no name calling from Westminster when Kosovo declared itself independent eh? Total hypocrisy coming out of Broon's moo. Scotland has never been inward looking and has historic links with several european countries such as the the Netherlands and France, visit the east neuk in fife you will notice the crow stepped gables on the houses - dutch/low countries influenced architcture some of it 200+ years old. Don't talk to us Scots about barriers or about being backward looking try addressing the Daily Mail and Telegraph reading twitterers (not mctwitterers :)
As a native Fifer I beg those still living there in bonny Dunfermlineshire to get Broon the hell out at the next opportunity.
Here we go again.
Where have a heard this before? Actually it is the soundtrack to my life. Sorry tho Gordy, it hasn't managed to convince me that I am backward looking, or parochial, or racist/anti english. Funny how there was no name calling from Westminster when Kosovo declared itself independent eh? Total hypocrisy coming out of Broon's moo. Scotland has never been inward looking and has historic links with several european countries such as the the Netherlands and France, visit the east neuk in fife you will notice the crow stepped gables on the houses - dutch/low countries influenced architcture some of it 200+ years old. Don't talk to us Scots about barriers or about being backward looking try addressing the Daily Mail and Telegraph reading twitterers (not mctwitterers :)
As a native Fifer I beg those still living there in bonny Dunfermlineshire to get Broon the hell out at the next opportunity.
Posted by: Wardog, Buckie on 7:28am Sat 29 Mar 08
"............... do we move backwards to a 19th-century formula to nation states with borders, embassies and consulates, or do we move forward to the interdependent world of the 21st century where people co-operate and work together...."
BROWN PROPOSES SCRAPPING BRITAIN AND INDEED ALL NATIONS
Brilliant, you couldn't make this stuff up.
"............... do we move backwards to a 19th-century formula to nation states with borders, embassies and consulates, or do we move forward to the interdependent world of the 21st century where people co-operate and work together...."
BROWN PROPOSES SCRAPPING BRITAIN AND INDEED ALL NATIONS
Brilliant, you couldn't make this stuff up.
Posted by: Jock in the Box, edinburgh on 7:37am Sat 29 Mar 08
[bold]Ronald, Glasgow on 1:40am[/bold]
This of course is the same Brian Wilson who explained the McCrone Report findings (when it was no longer suppressed under the Freedom of Information Act)as something which had been explained to the Scottish electorate.
Labour told us apparently that we were made aware of our wealth in the Scottish sector of the North Sea and that independence would result in our becoming one of the worlds embarrassingly rich nations(he did this witnessed by millions on national tv)and we rejected this in favour of Westminster.
Im glad thats cleared up.
The numerous Labour party broadcasts which said we would be like Albania (Gaelic joke on Alba)if we went down the seperatist route were in fact a dream,which I had [bold]EVERY NIGHT and DAY and shared it with 5 MILLION OTHERS in Scotland.[/bold]
The Daily Retard and the Hootsmon are therefore a figment of my imagination, and Labour acknowledge the strength of the case for indpendence and all those muppets at Aviemore are in fact just a dream .
[bold]For Brian Wilson read Bying Lastard[/bold]
His credibility was never very Good and since that day its a minus if thats possible!
[bold]SCOTLAND HOW CAN YOU BE SO STUPID AS TO SWALLOW THIS CRAP?[/bold]
[bold]The Labour Party agree with what the SNP are saying,but also diagree and THINK YOU ARE TOO STUPID TO NOTICE[/bold]
[bold]Some of you are![/bold]
Ronald, Glasgow on 1:40am
This of course is the same Brian Wilson who explained the McCrone Report findings (when it was no longer suppressed under the Freedom of Information Act)as something which had been explained to the Scottish electorate.
Labour told us apparently that we were made aware of our wealth in the Scottish sector of the North Sea and that independence would result in our becoming one of the worlds embarrassingly rich nations(he did this witnessed by millions on national tv)and we rejected this in favour of Westminster.
Im glad thats cleared up.
The numerous Labour party broadcasts which said we would be like Albania (Gaelic joke on Alba)if we went down the seperatist route were in fact a dream,which I had
EVERY NIGHT and DAY and shared it with 5 MILLION OTHERS in Scotland.
The Daily Retard and the Hootsmon are therefore a figment of my imagination, and Labour acknowledge the strength of the case for indpendence and all those muppets at Aviemore are in fact just a dream .
For Brian Wilson read Bying Lastard
His credibility was never very Good and since that day its a minus if thats possible!
SCOTLAND HOW CAN YOU BE SO STUPID AS TO SWALLOW THIS CRAP?
The Labour Party agree with what the SNP are saying,but also diagree and THINK YOU ARE TOO STUPID TO NOTICE
Some of you are! Posted by: Quine, aberdeen on 7:38am Sat 29 Mar 08
You think he's been listening to this Wardog?
"Imagine there's no countries
It isn't hard to do
Nothing to kill or die for
And no religion too
Imagine all the people
Living life in peace ......And the world shall live as one."
Maybe the fresh air in Aviemore is going too his head after so long in polluted old London town.
You think he's been listening to this Wardog?
"Imagine there's no countries
It isn't hard to do
Nothing to kill or die for
And no religion too
Imagine all the people
Living life in peace ......And the world shall live as one."
Maybe the fresh air in Aviemore is going too his head after so long in polluted old London town.
Posted by: Jock in the Box, edinburgh on 7:50am Sat 29 Mar 08
[bold]Ronald, Glasgow on 1:40am[/bold]
This of course is the same Brian Wilson who explained the McCrone Report findings (when it was no longer suppressed under the Freedom of Information Act)as something which had been explained to the Scottish electorate.
Labour told us apparently that we were made aware of our wealth in the Scottish sector of the North Sea and that independence would result in our becoming one of the worlds embarrassingly rich nations(he did this witnessed by millions on national tv)and we rejected this in favour of Westminster.
Im glad thats cleared up.
The numerous Labour party broadcasts which said we would be like Albania (Gaelic joke on Alba)if we went down the seperatist route were in fact a dream,which I had [bold]EVERY NIGHT and DAY and shared it with 5 MILLION OTHERS in Scotland.[/bold]
The Daily Retard and the Hootsmon are therefore a figment of my imagination, and Labour acknowledge the strength of the case for indpendence and all those muppets at Aviemore are in fact just a dream .
[bold]For Brian Wilson read Bying Lastard[/bold]
His credibility was never very Good and since that day its a minus if thats possible!
[bold]SCOTLAND HOW CAN YOU BE SO STUPID AS TO SWALLOW THIS CRAP?[/bold]
[bold]The Labour Party agree with what the SNP are saying,but also diagree and THINK YOU ARE TOO STUPID TO NOTICE[/bold]
[bold]Some of you are![/bold]
Ronald, Glasgow on 1:40am
This of course is the same Brian Wilson who explained the McCrone Report findings (when it was no longer suppressed under the Freedom of Information Act)as something which had been explained to the Scottish electorate.
Labour told us apparently that we were made aware of our wealth in the Scottish sector of the North Sea and that independence would result in our becoming one of the worlds embarrassingly rich nations(he did this witnessed by millions on national tv)and we rejected this in favour of Westminster.
Im glad thats cleared up.
The numerous Labour party broadcasts which said we would be like Albania (Gaelic joke on Alba)if we went down the seperatist route were in fact a dream,which I had
EVERY NIGHT and DAY and shared it with 5 MILLION OTHERS in Scotland.
The Daily Retard and the Hootsmon are therefore a figment of my imagination, and Labour acknowledge the strength of the case for indpendence and all those muppets at Aviemore are in fact just a dream .
For Brian Wilson read Bying Lastard
His credibility was never very Good and since that day its a minus if thats possible!
SCOTLAND HOW CAN YOU BE SO STUPID AS TO SWALLOW THIS CRAP?
The Labour Party agree with what the SNP are saying,but also diagree and THINK YOU ARE TOO STUPID TO NOTICE
Some of you are! Posted by: art1000, Dunfermline on 8:00am Sat 29 Mar 08
The manic logic of Broon (the deranged ex loony student who has never had a proper job in his life) is one world government. Why does he not start telling the Irish that a seat on the IMF (who's help he will be needing very shortly) to come back to the fold for example. The man is a fool.
The manic logic of Broon (the deranged ex loony student who has never had a proper job in his life) is one world government. Why does he not start telling the Irish that a seat on the IMF (who's help he will be needing very shortly) to come back to the fold for example. The man is a fool.
Posted by: Mike SE, Uppsala on 8:35am Sat 29 Mar 08
More negativity, do they not see that this stuff was part of the reason they lost the Scottish elections.Labour (and the rest) don't seem to be able to find ANY positive aspects to the Union.
Wendy, talk about about an own goal. You broke the law etc, clearly your not 10/10.That party truely are a shambles.
More negativity, do they not see that this stuff was part of the reason they lost the Scottish elections.Labour (and the rest) don't seem to be able to find ANY positive aspects to the Union.
Wendy, talk about about an own goal. You broke the law etc, clearly your not 10/10.That party truely are a shambles.
Posted by: iang on 8:54am Sat 29 Mar 08
The SNP want the barriers to come down. Scotland is barred fro representing itself at every international stage to the detriment of Scotland over England.
Fisheries are a perfect example where English fishermen recieved protection while the Scottish fleet has been decimated and there traditional fishing waters plundered by other EU countries such as Spain and France...Spain FFS!!! who then sell the fish they caught in the north sea to England!!!
Aye. Let the barriers come down!!!!
The SNP want the barriers to come down. Scotland is barred fro representing itself at every international stage to the detriment of Scotland over England.
Fisheries are a perfect example where English fishermen recieved protection while the Scottish fleet has been decimated and there traditional fishing waters plundered by other EU countries such as Spain and France...Spain FFS!!! who then sell the fish they caught in the north sea to England!!!
Aye. Let the barriers come down!!!!
Posted by: Los Angeles, Edinburgh on 8:58am Sat 29 Mar 08
The only "benefits" accruing from being in the Union, according to Brown, is, we avoid the lies he attributes to us.
The only "benefits" accruing from being in the Union, according to Brown, is, we avoid the lies he attributes to us.
Posted by: Allan, glasgow on 8:59am Sat 29 Mar 08
[bold]Gordon Brown[/bold] nor [bold]Wendy Alexander[/bold] were democraticall voted to their positions. Anybody looking at the line up on the meeting would have noticed "Steven Purcell" leader of Glasgow City Council in the line up, strangely enough was [bold]NOT[/bold] voted in as leader either. Democracy- [bold]Who's[/bold] democracy?????? [bold]Dictatorship[/bold] lead by Brown & Co. We should ask George Bush to send in the troops to free us.
Gordon Brown nor
Wendy Alexander were democraticall voted to their positions. Anybody looking at the line up on the meeting would have noticed "Steven Purcell" leader of Glasgow City Council in the line up, strangely enough was
NOT voted in as leader either. Democracy-
Who's democracy??????
Dictatorship lead by Brown & Co. We should ask George Bush to send in the troops to free us.
Posted by: Allan, glasgow on 9:00am Sat 29 Mar 08
[bold]Gordon Brown[/bold] nor [bold]Wendy Alexander[/bold] were democraticall voted to their positions. Anybody looking at the line up on the meeting would have noticed "Steven Purcell" leader of Glasgow City Council in the line up, strangely enough was [bold]NOT[/bold] voted in as leader either. Democracy- [bold]Who's[/bold] democracy?????? [bold]Dictatorship[/bold] lead by Brown & Co. We should ask George Bush to send in the troops to free us.
Gordon Brown nor
Wendy Alexander were democraticall voted to their positions. Anybody looking at the line up on the meeting would have noticed "Steven Purcell" leader of Glasgow City Council in the line up, strangely enough was
NOT voted in as leader either. Democracy-
Who's democracy??????
Dictatorship lead by Brown & Co. We should ask George Bush to send in the troops to free us.
Posted by: Tea Boy at the RBS, Leith on 9:03am Sat 29 Mar 08
Excellent speech given by the excellent leader of our excellent nation. Keep up the good work you are doing Gordon and take no notice of the wee pretenter Salmond who will soon be history and a distant memory.
Excellent speech given by the excellent leader of our excellent nation. Keep up the good work you are doing Gordon and take no notice of the wee pretenter Salmond who will soon be history and a distant memory.
Posted by: highlander45, Highlands on 9:14am Sat 29 Mar 08
Tea boy
you are having a laugh eh!!
Tea boy
you are having a laugh eh!!
Posted by: John Edgar, Cupar on 9:22am Sat 29 Mar 08
Brown's comments about barriers etc are just "cauld kail het up" - the same unionist-westminster
ite nonesense we have been hearing about since the moves towards Scottish devolution and Scottish independence from the UK have started. We have heard it all before and are not impressed. The problem facing Brown and Co is that they are on the way out in Scotland - a former Labour "fiefdom" - as they saw it and with the English National Party ( aka the Tories)gaining ground in the South, NULAB are worried.
The Labour westminsterites seem to think that the only way for Scotland to enter the world body politic is through Westminster! And yet we see a symbolic fiasco taking place before us . Look at the Terminal 5 disaster at Heathrow. It stands for what the UK is all about - chaos! The Queen is even quoted in BA's house journal: " A 21st-century gateway to Britain and the outer world". Yet we see these "British" institutions in chaos. Scots increasingly no longer want to go through the London/Westminsterit
e gridlock to the world and we certainly do not want the Westminsterite approach to domestic affairs either! So for NULAB in Scotland it must make depressing reading. When the Tories take over the UK after the next general election to Westminster, how will SCOTLAB react? Well we remember the ploitically comatose "Feeble 50" from before!
Brown's comments about barriers etc are just "cauld kail het up" - the same unionist-westminster
ite nonesense we have been hearing about since the moves towards Scottish devolution and Scottish independence from the UK have started. We have heard it all before and are not impressed. The problem facing Brown and Co is that they are on the way out in Scotland - a former Labour "fiefdom" - as they saw it and with the English National Party ( aka the Tories)gaining ground in the South, NULAB are worried.
The Labour westminsterites seem to think that the only way for Scotland to enter the world body politic is through Westminster! And yet we see a symbolic fiasco taking place before us . Look at the Terminal 5 disaster at Heathrow. It stands for what the UK is all about - chaos! The Queen is even quoted in BA's house journal: " A 21st-century gateway to Britain and the outer world". Yet we see these "British" institutions in chaos. Scots increasingly no longer want to go through the London/Westminsterit
e gridlock to the world and we certainly do not want the Westminsterite approach to domestic affairs either! So for NULAB in Scotland it must make depressing reading. When the Tories take over the UK after the next general election to Westminster, how will SCOTLAB react? Well we remember the ploitically comatose "Feeble 50" from before!
Posted by: jomellon, Lodève, France on 9:23am Sat 29 Mar 08
Broon: [quote]Scots' values can have more influence on world affairs through being part of a larger country[/quote]
Quite right - as part of Europe. Britain is finished.
Broon abandoned his values long ago as part of the neo-conservative NuLabour initiative.
Broon:
Scots' values can have more influence on world affairs through being part of a larger country
Quite right - as part of Europe. Britain is finished.
Broon abandoned his values long ago as part of the neo-conservative NuLabour initiative.
Posted by: pencildick on 9:27am Sat 29 Mar 08
Tea boy, youll go no further.
Tea boy, youll go no further.
Posted by: Lachlan, Stirling on 9:31am Sat 29 Mar 08
Why did all these, presumably, intelligent Labour Party delegates at Aviemore politely accept as gospel what the Prime Minister said in his speech when in fact the reality of the present political situation is completely different?
Ex-Labour government Minister Brian Wilson, who has never minced his words, perfectly sums up this failure to face the realpolitik of Scottish Nationalism!
Unless the Labour Party in Scotland acknowledges that Nationalism is simply not going to disappear like snaw aff a dyke then I fear for the future of Unionism, especially with the poor leadership in the Scots Unionist parties!
Today, after apparently asking herself in the mirror:
"Who is the best of them (Party Leaders) all?" she embarrassingly awards herself 10 out of 10 for her recent performance as Leader
of the Labour Party in Scotland?
No wonder Brian Wilson despairs!
Why did all these, presumably, intelligent Labour Party delegates at Aviemore politely accept as gospel what the Prime Minister said in his speech when in fact the reality of the present political situation is completely different?
Ex-Labour government Minister Brian Wilson, who has never minced his words, perfectly sums up this failure to face the realpolitik of Scottish Nationalism!
Unless the Labour Party in Scotland acknowledges that Nationalism is simply not going to disappear like snaw aff a dyke then I fear for the future of Unionism, especially with the poor leadership in the Scots Unionist parties!
Today, after apparently asking herself in the mirror:
"Who is the best of them (Party Leaders) all?" she embarrassingly awards herself 10 out of 10 for her recent performance as Leader
of the Labour Party in Scotland?
No wonder Brian Wilson despairs!
Posted by: Lachlan, Stirling on 9:32am Sat 29 Mar 08
Why did all these, presumably, intelligent Labour Party delegates at Aviemore politely accept as gospel what the Prime Minister said in his speech when in fact the reality of the present political situation is completely different?
Ex-Labour government Minister Brian Wilson, who has never minced his words, perfectly sums up this failure to face the realpolitik of Scottish Nationalism!
Unless the Labour Party in Scotland acknowledges that Nationalism is simply not going to disappear like snaw aff a dyke then I fear for the future of Unionism, especially with the poor leadership in the Scots Unionist parties!
Today, after apparently asking herself in the mirror:
"Who is the best of them (Party Leaders) all?" she embarrassingly awards herself 10 out of 10 for her recent performance as Leader
of the Labour Party in Scotland?
No wonder Brian Wilson despairs!
Why did all these, presumably, intelligent Labour Party delegates at Aviemore politely accept as gospel what the Prime Minister said in his speech when in fact the reality of the present political situation is completely different?
Ex-Labour government Minister Brian Wilson, who has never minced his words, perfectly sums up this failure to face the realpolitik of Scottish Nationalism!
Unless the Labour Party in Scotland acknowledges that Nationalism is simply not going to disappear like snaw aff a dyke then I fear for the future of Unionism, especially with the poor leadership in the Scots Unionist parties!
Today, after apparently asking herself in the mirror:
"Who is the best of them (Party Leaders) all?" she embarrassingly awards herself 10 out of 10 for her recent performance as Leader
of the Labour Party in Scotland?
No wonder Brian Wilson despairs!
Posted by: jomellon, Lodève, France on 9:43am Sat 29 Mar 08
[quote]Scots' values can have more influence on world affairs through being part of a larger country[/quote]
Or by being direct members of the European Union, direct members of the UN...
Being part of Britain means hiding those values behind Little Englands attempt at importance as the poodle of the US.
Scots' values can have more influence on world affairs through being part of a larger country
Or by being direct members of the European Union, direct members of the UN...
Being part of Britain means hiding those values behind Little Englands attempt at importance as the poodle of the US.
Posted by: george alexander, north lanarkshire on 10:07am Sat 29 Mar 08
The new tactic from Unionists in both the media and political parties is to attempt to apply a 'Thatcherite' tag onto the SNP.
The evidence they have to support this is so tenuous that any sensible person will see it for what it is, a clumsy attempt at using the ghost of Thatcher in an attempt at frightening vulnerable Scots.
Occassionally I take a quick peak at The Sc
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