SPT loses control of flagship rail link to airport
Transport agency SPT was yesterday stripped of its right
to build its flagship rail link to Glasgow Airport.
The Glasgow-based Strathclyde Partnership for Transport was told the £210m scheme will be taken over by national body Transport Scotland.
Senior industry sources last night cited flaws in the design for the railway, which is still expected to be opened in time for the 2014 Commonwealth Games.
One insider said: "This is a reality check for SPT. The bottom line? They are not an infrastructure provider."
SPT has championed the Glasgow Airport Rail Link (Garl) for many years. The body, which was downgraded when Transport Scotland was launched in 2006, lobbied for a link to Glasgow Airport, designed the route and piloted legislation which paved the way for the work to begin.
The Glasgow agency was widely expected to oversee construction, due to begin next year.
SPT lost most of its powers over railways when Transport Scotland came into being but its chairman, Glasgow councillor Alistair Watson, always argued that its new strategic role included priorities such as Garl.
Transport Minister Stewart Stevenson yesterday said: "This represents the right way forward for Garl, a nationally significant project vital for the local and wider Scottish economy, especially in capturing the long-term benefits which will flow from the Commonwealth Games in 2014.
"The hard work SPT has put in to get us to this stage should not be underestimated.
"As with all infrastructure projects funded from the public purse, the overriding objective must always be to deliver as effectively and as efficiently as possible."
Mr Watson said: "I am not precious about who cuts the ribbons."
SPT is rebuilding Partick Station, one of Scotland's busiest transport interchanges, but is well behind schedule. The work should have finished last month.
Ron Culley, SPT's chief executive, said: "Getting the creation of a rail link to Glasgow Airport from a concept to the detailed design stage of an approved project, is a significant achievement.
"It completes the essential first stages of a vision that SPT has had for a crucial airport rail link. It also fulfils our obligations under the Garl Act."
Officials from SPT and Transport Scotland yesterday stressed that Garl work would coincide with work being carried out by Network Rail to re-signal the line from Glasgow to Paisley, another reason, they said, to hand over control of the project.
Much of the investment on Garl will go to expand capacity between Central Station in Glasgow and Paisley's Gilmour Street, improving services right across south-west Scotland.
A spur will be built, from Paisley to a terminal at Glasgow Airport. Four trains will run between Glasgow and the airport every hour, with a stop in Paisley.
An SPT spokesman yesterday denied there had been problems with design work for Garl.
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Posted by: subrosa on 12:40am Sat 29 Mar 08
Wonder if some brown envelopes have been found. Other than that is must have been brought to the attention of the government that SPT is just incompetent.
Wonder if some brown envelopes have been found. Other than that is must have been brought to the attention of the government that SPT is just incompetent.
Posted by: Donald Anderson, glasgow on 3:03am Sat 29 Mar 08
The Broon envelopes will be bursting during the Old Firm brak at Aviemore. I hope it is on when Bendy or Lord Fooks is speaking.
Did anyone see their party broadcast yesterday.
Where's the Trade Description Act when you you need it?
The Broon envelopes will be bursting during the Old Firm brak at Aviemore. I hope it is on when Bendy or Lord Fooks is speaking.
Did anyone see their party broadcast yesterday.
Where's the Trade Description Act when you you need it?
Posted by: FIFER, Anstruther,Fife on 6:12am Sat 29 Mar 08
the SPT has a good record over the years and it is a bit short sighted.
the SPT has a good record over the years and it is a bit short sighted.
Posted by: Kyle, Edinburgh on 6:24am Sat 29 Mar 08
The Herald, and Mr Leask needs to up their game - or is it the Sub Editors who cause this problem? The tabloids are frequently guilty of producing a dramatic headline only to underpin a mouse of a story beneath it. Now the Herald's at it. Leask is an award winning journalist but has obviously come to the conclusion that he's in the business of selling newspapers by any means possible, not bringing relevant information to readers of the Herald who expect something better than a concocted and dramatised story like this. Top story? Must be a quiet news day!
The Herald, and Mr Leask needs to up their game - or is it the Sub Editors who cause this problem? The tabloids are frequently guilty of producing a dramatic headline only to underpin a mouse of a story beneath it. Now the Herald's at it. Leask is an award winning journalist but has obviously come to the conclusion that he's in the business of selling newspapers by any means possible, not bringing relevant information to readers of the Herald who expect something better than a concocted and dramatised story like this. Top story? Must be a quiet news day!
Posted by: subrosa on 8:24am Sat 29 Mar 08
Donald, Lord (make it a double) Foulkes isn't going to be there. He's not well. He has blood pressure problems.
Donald, Lord (make it a double) Foulkes isn't going to be there. He's not well. He has blood pressure problems.
Posted by: iang on 8:48am Sat 29 Mar 08
Why does there need to be a stop in paisley? An Express train to Glasgow Central makes much more sense, Paisley is already over served by trains. People going locally to the airport should take cheaper taxis or have a decent bus service provided.
Why does there need to be a stop in paisley? An Express train to Glasgow Central makes much more sense, Paisley is already over served by trains. People going locally to the airport should take cheaper taxis or have a decent bus service provided.
Posted by: Politically-incorrec
t Man, Glasgow on 8:50am Sat 29 Mar 08
We don't need a line from Paisley to the airport, we need a line that runs along the south bank of the Clyde from Glasgow Central through Govan, Southern General Hospital, Braehead, Renfrew, Glasgow Airport, and Erskine. That would guarantee commuter traffic as well as servicing the airport and apart from serving the needs of the local community rather than potential one-off travellers it would increase the financial viability of the new investment.
We don't need a line from Paisley to the airport, we need a line that runs along the south bank of the Clyde from Glasgow Central through Govan, Southern General Hospital, Braehead, Renfrew, Glasgow Airport, and Erskine. That would guarantee commuter traffic as well as servicing the airport and apart from serving the needs of the local community rather than potential one-off travellers it would increase the financial viability of the new investment.
Posted by: davieboy on 9:47am Sat 29 Mar 08
It appears that Mr Leask is indeed behind the times. It was reported in the Herald in October / November that costs had risen to £245m.
The current GARL option is a huge white elephant. By SPT's own admission they reckon an average of 12 people will use each train and it is going to be a millstone around the neck of the Scottish taxpayer forever.
It is estimated that it will cost around £7-£8 per journey. Imagine if you get off the plane and want to go to say Bearsden or the West End of Glasgow. Would you pay £7 to go to the city centre and then pay more to get on the second leg of your journey, or would you just get in a taxi and save time & hassle.
Added to that SPT's proposed design was for a single span bridge right over 6 lanes of motorway, a feat that has never been done in Europe before, and was expected to be of a height equal to that of the hotel in the Airport itself. The Scottish taxpayer was expected to pick up the risk costs for this too.
Also engineers have, until 2 weeks ago, been testing the soil in St James Park for the airport spur. It appears that it is 50m before you hit bedrock. The galling thing about this is that Cllr Watson has known about this for over 2 years and has buried his head in the sand. I was at a meeting with SPT around 2/3 years ago and when the subject of costs was discussed, one of the SPT managers boasted that "cost was not an issue on this project" (I can name him and have witnesses to this).
One last thing, the current cost estimates are based on figures gained in late 2004 by consultants hired by SPT and are figures used to produce the business case that was presented to the last parliament in order to promote the GARL bill. It is now 2008 and the latest estimates for project completion is around 2011 / 2012. Given that the price of oil / diesel alone has gone up 25% in the last year it is clear that when they start to sign the cheques in 2012, the figure is going to be far higher than £245m.
It is obvious that the government should spend this cash on Crossrail or indeed a link that includes Braehead / Renfrew / Erskine, other wise we are going to end up with another overspend fiasco like the Scottish Parliament Building.
It appears that Mr Leask is indeed behind the times. It was reported in the Herald in October / November that costs had risen to £245m.
The current GARL option is a huge white elephant. By SPT's own admission they reckon an average of 12 people will use each train and it is going to be a millstone around the neck of the Scottish taxpayer forever.
It is estimated that it will cost around £7-£8 per journey. Imagine if you get off the plane and want to go to say Bearsden or the West End of Glasgow. Would you pay £7 to go to the city centre and then pay more to get on the second leg of your journey, or would you just get in a taxi and save time & hassle.
Added to that SPT's proposed design was for a single span bridge right over 6 lanes of motorway, a feat that has never been done in Europe before, and was expected to be of a height equal to that of the hotel in the Airport itself. The Scottish taxpayer was expected to pick up the risk costs for this too.
Also engineers have, until 2 weeks ago, been testing the soil in St James Park for the airport spur. It appears that it is 50m before you hit bedrock. The galling thing about this is that Cllr Watson has known about this for over 2 years and has buried his head in the sand. I was at a meeting with SPT around 2/3 years ago and when the subject of costs was discussed, one of the SPT managers boasted that "cost was not an issue on this project" (I can name him and have witnesses to this).
One last thing, the current cost estimates are based on figures gained in late 2004 by consultants hired by SPT and are figures used to produce the business case that was presented to the last parliament in order to promote the GARL bill. It is now 2008 and the latest estimates for project completion is around 2011 / 2012. Given that the price of oil / diesel alone has gone up 25% in the last year it is clear that when they start to sign the cheques in 2012, the figure is going to be far higher than £245m.
It is obvious that the government should spend this cash on Crossrail or indeed a link that includes Braehead / Renfrew / Erskine, other wise we are going to end up with another overspend fiasco like the Scottish Parliament Building.
Posted by: pete, Bearsden on 9:47am Sat 29 Mar 08
I agree with Politically Incorrect Man - his idea makes much more sense. This whole things looks like yet another quango - how many more of these do we need?
I agree with Politically Incorrect Man - his idea makes much more sense. This whole things looks like yet another quango - how many more of these do we need?
Posted by: Clare, Lanarkshire on 10:30am Sat 29 Mar 08
P.I.M. excellent idea. But much too sensible. Explains why they aren't doing it that way.
P.I.M. excellent idea. But much too sensible. Explains why they aren't doing it that way.
Posted by: daz, glasgow on 10:42am Sat 29 Mar 08
[quote][bold]Politically-incorrect Man[/bold] wrote:
We don't need a line from Paisley to the airport, we need a line that runs along the south bank of the Clyde from Glasgow Central through Govan, Southern General Hospital, Braehead, Renfrew, Glasgow Airport, and Erskine. That would guarantee commuter traffic as well as servicing the airport and apart from serving the needs of the local community rather than potential one-off travellers it would increase the financial viability of the new investment. [/quote] there was a report/feasibility study done for an underground version of what you suggest, not to erskine though, but looping back into the west end.
i'm sure costs were high but the value for money would have been substantial.
SPT must've lost it down the back of thier filing cabinet so they could always commission another..........
Politically-incorrect Man wrote:
We don't need a line from Paisley to the airport, we need a line that runs along the south bank of the Clyde from Glasgow Central through Govan, Southern General Hospital, Braehead, Renfrew, Glasgow Airport, and Erskine. That would guarantee commuter traffic as well as servicing the airport and apart from serving the needs of the local community rather than potential one-off travellers it would increase the financial viability of the new investment.
there was a report/feasibility study done for an underground version of what you suggest, not to erskine though, but looping back into the west end.
i'm sure costs were high but the value for money would have been substantial.
SPT must've lost it down the back of thier filing cabinet so they could always commission another..........
Posted by: John Hamilton, Stirling on 11:14am Sat 29 Mar 08
Viewed through the red tinted specs of the Labour (aka New Tory) hacks at The Herald this is seen as:
SPT = Labour stuffed quango full of our pals = good
Transport Scotland = SNP (Scottish) Government Agency = bad
"How dare they strip our wonderful, well performing SPT and insult our pal Cooncillor W*tson and his Labour cronies of reponsibility for this project. Next they'll be stripping them of responsibility for the (non)-refurbishment of Partick station. It's no' fair, Labour is the natural party of government and has a divine right to mess things up in Scotland. What a slap in the face to wur Labour SPT pals by the nasty SNP government and it's Transport Agency".
Hence the headline...
Viewed through the red tinted specs of the Labour (aka New Tory) hacks at The Herald this is seen as:
SPT = Labour stuffed quango full of our pals = good
Transport Scotland = SNP (Scottish) Government Agency = bad
"How dare they strip our wonderful, well performing SPT and insult our pal Cooncillor W*tson and his Labour cronies of reponsibility for this project. Next they'll be stripping them of responsibility for the (non)-refurbishment of Partick station. It's no' fair, Labour is the natural party of government and has a divine right to mess things up in Scotland. What a slap in the face to wur Labour SPT pals by the nasty SNP government and it's Transport Agency".
Hence the headline...
Posted by: Jim, Glasgow on 11:21am Sat 29 Mar 08
[quote][bold]Politically-incorrect Man[/bold] wrote:
We don't need a line from Paisley to the airport, we need a line that runs along the south bank of the Clyde from Glasgow Central through Govan, Southern General Hospital, Braehead, Renfrew, Glasgow Airport, and Erskine. That would guarantee commuter traffic as well as servicing the airport and apart from serving the needs of the local community rather than potential one-off travellers it would increase the financial viability of the new investment.
[/quote] An excellent point. With the planned development of the Southern General and the inevitable road traffic and parking problems that the vast expansion of the hospital will cause, a rail link could help. Especially if good park and ride facilities were included at all the new stations.
Politically-incorrect Man wrote:
We don't need a line from Paisley to the airport, we need a line that runs along the south bank of the Clyde from Glasgow Central through Govan, Southern General Hospital, Braehead, Renfrew, Glasgow Airport, and Erskine. That would guarantee commuter traffic as well as servicing the airport and apart from serving the needs of the local community rather than potential one-off travellers it would increase the financial viability of the new investment.
An excellent point. With the planned development of the Southern General and the inevitable road traffic and parking problems that the vast expansion of the hospital will cause, a rail link could help. Especially if good park and ride facilities were included at all the new stations.
Posted by: Graham, Glasgow on 12:22pm Sat 29 Mar 08
Quite clever of the SNP to hand over responsibility from one quango to another. The joke is that Transport Scotland set up by Lib/Lab is about three years old and has no experience in overseeing contracts. It is also stuffed with former SPT employees! Good old fashioned politics just for the sake of it.[bold]bold[/bold]
Quite clever of the SNP to hand over responsibility from one quango to another. The joke is that Transport Scotland set up by Lib/Lab is about three years old and has no experience in overseeing contracts. It is also stuffed with former SPT employees! Good old fashioned politics just for the sake of it.
Posted by: chic, paisley on 2:03pm Sat 29 Mar 08
[quote][bold]iang[/bold] wrote:
Why does there need to be a stop in paisley? An Express train to Glasgow Central makes much more sense, Paisley is already over served by trains. People going locally to the airport should take cheaper taxis or have a decent bus service provided.[/quote] I doubt you've tried using trains at peak times between Glasgow Central and Paisley Gimour Street. On a daily regular basis there are no seats and very often even limited standing room, particularly on the trains coming from Ayrshire.
I can only count rare occasions when it is actually possible to get a seat on a train from Paisley to Glasgow on a morning commute.
SPT have previously said that capacity issues will be addressed, but there's still the nonsense of SPT/FirstScotrail running 3 car trains at peak times.
The GARL scheme only makes sense if Crossrail is also implemented to provide services that cross Glasgow and until it does, then why have near empty trains running from the Airport direct to the City.
Paisley travellers get the 'pleasure' of paying £4 for a day return to stand both ways, so if the Airport trains add capacity and frequency, then for once those in power have actually done something that benefits Renfrewshire.
iang wrote:
Why does there need to be a stop in paisley? An Express train to Glasgow Central makes much more sense, Paisley is already over served by trains. People going locally to the airport should take cheaper taxis or have a decent bus service provided.
I doubt you've tried using trains at peak times between Glasgow Central and Paisley Gimour Street. On a daily regular basis there are no seats and very often even limited standing room, particularly on the trains coming from Ayrshire.
I can only count rare occasions when it is actually possible to get a seat on a train from Paisley to Glasgow on a morning commute.
SPT have previously said that capacity issues will be addressed, but there's still the nonsense of SPT/FirstScotrail running 3 car trains at peak times.
The GARL scheme only makes sense if Crossrail is also implemented to provide services that cross Glasgow and until it does, then why have near empty trains running from the Airport direct to the City.
Paisley travellers get the 'pleasure' of paying £4 for a day return to stand both ways, so if the Airport trains add capacity and frequency, then for once those in power have actually done something that benefits Renfrewshire.
Posted by: CRAGman, Edinburgh on 2:44pm Sat 29 Mar 08
Westminster rule was positively hands off and benign when compared with rule by diktat from Holyrood. At every opportunity Holyrood [quote]quote[/quote] takes powers away from locally accountable bodies and centralises them within its own opaque bosom.
Westminster rule was positively hands off and benign when compared with rule by diktat from Holyrood. At every opportunity Holyrood
quote
takes powers away from locally accountable bodies and centralises them within its own opaque bosom.
Posted by: leesome, Glasgow on 5:16pm Sat 29 Mar 08
Four trains an hour, until the over-head wire breaks. Which on that line isn't uncommon.
Four trains an hour, until the over-head wire breaks. Which on that line isn't uncommon.
Posted by: People Power, Glasgow on 6:19pm Sat 29 Mar 08
Thank heavens for common sense - as S.P.T. has to my mind done little or nothing to prove it is even in the starting blocks to manage such an ambitious project as the Glasgow Airport Rail link.
What other organisation would prioritise The Glasgow Subway Festival ("a line-up of singers, dancers, musicians, acrobats and on-the-spot prizes.") over upgrading its P.A. System ; potential integration of its tickets with Scotrail & its accessability for more frail, or disabled passengers.
Another example of the problems S.P.T. faces is the true extent of the regular chaos on display at the behind schedule,
and partially rebuilt Partick Interchange, prior to the old firm match at Ibrox Stadium ; (Saturday 29th March.)
Despite their being three newly built desks within the ticket office to serve the public for the Subway - just one desk was being staffed.
There was a lengthly queue of passengers, (mainly Rangers fans) for the ticket vending machines extending outside the station.
Another queue was for the ticket vending desk, where only one machine & staff member was available to vend tickets & distribute change, despite the thousands passing through the station en route to Ibrox subway station, and Stadium.
This mismanagement and poor planning is typical of S.P.T. time & time again. On one hand it is acceptable to pack passengers on trains to Ibrox like sardines, no doubt breaching Health And Safety Regulations, yet on the other they cannot even acquire additional ticket vending machines in advance of such a busy period at the Station, which serves other members of the public travelling on the low level trains also.
For me it is straight forwards - Councillor Alistair Watson must go NOW! And the Staff of Glasgows "toy town" train system must be pulled into line, and have serious meetings to bring the level of service of Glasgows Underground up to scratch!
Its opening hours are a disgrace - and it's staff getting away with such short hours are far too used to getting their own ways.
Perhaps their contracts need a complete overhaul as much as the entire System does .
The main difference here is that changing peoples - staffs mindsets will not cost millions - upgrading the infrastructure and expanding the tunnels & Subway system will. If the staff cannot change with the times - they must be shown the door - it's that simple!
Thank heavens for common sense - as S.P.T. has to my mind done little or nothing to prove it is even in the starting blocks to manage such an ambitious project as the Glasgow Airport Rail link.
What other organisation would prioritise The Glasgow Subway Festival ("a line-up of singers, dancers, musicians, acrobats and on-the-spot prizes.") over upgrading its P.A. System ; potential integration of its tickets with Scotrail & its accessability for more frail, or disabled passengers.
Another example of the problems S.P.T. faces is the true extent of the regular chaos on display at the behind schedule,
and partially rebuilt Partick Interchange, prior to the old firm match at Ibrox Stadium ; (Saturday 29th March.)
Despite their being three newly built desks within the ticket office to serve the public for the Subway - just one desk was being staffed.
There was a lengthly queue of passengers, (mainly Rangers fans) for the ticket vending machines extending outside the station.
Another queue was for the ticket vending desk, where only one machine & staff member was available to vend tickets & distribute change, despite the thousands passing through the station en route to Ibrox subway station, and Stadium.
This mismanagement and poor planning is typical of S.P.T. time & time again. On one hand it is acceptable to pack passengers on trains to Ibrox like sardines, no doubt breaching Health And Safety Regulations, yet on the other they cannot even acquire additional ticket vending machines in advance of such a busy period at the Station, which serves other members of the public travelling on the low level trains also.
For me it is straight forwards - Councillor Alistair Watson must go NOW! And the Staff of Glasgows "toy town" train system must be pulled into line, and have serious meetings to bring the level of service of Glasgows Underground up to scratch!
Its opening hours are a disgrace - and it's staff getting away with such short hours are far too used to getting their own ways.
Perhaps their contracts need a complete overhaul as much as the entire System does .
The main difference here is that changing peoples - staffs mindsets will not cost millions - upgrading the infrastructure and expanding the tunnels & Subway system will. If the staff cannot change with the times - they must be shown the door - it's that simple!
Posted by: Graham, Glasgow on 8:05pm Sat 29 Mar 08
PP,6:19. THE STAFF PROBLEMS ON THE UG are well known. But how many extra hours should they work down in the tunnel. Is 38 hrs not enough or perhaps we should employ Poles and feed them in the tunnels and not let them emerge. Do you think the Gov is going to spend billions to extend the system. You obviously do not have a clue as to the effort put in by the SPT(E) over decades to get this rail link. However they are not the people to oversee a building contract. The SPTE did attempt to get trams back into Glasgow. This was shot down by the Tory Bus Lobby and not to be seen again GREENS. You have to be fair to the SPTE. They had to face the fact that the Tories privatised the buses and trains which left them with hardly any of the intended powers to have an integrated transport system. Unlike some third world countrys have. This present Gov will not even think of re-nationalisation (without compensation). They like Labour and Tory are in the pockets of the privateers and rackateers.[bold]bold[/bold]
PP,6:19. THE STAFF PROBLEMS ON THE UG are well known. But how many extra hours should they work down in the tunnel. Is 38 hrs not enough or perhaps we should employ Poles and feed them in the tunnels and not let them emerge. Do you think the Gov is going to spend billions to extend the system. You obviously do not have a clue as to the effort put in by the SPT(E) over decades to get this rail link. However they are not the people to oversee a building contract. The SPTE did attempt to get trams back into Glasgow. This was shot down by the Tory Bus Lobby and not to be seen again GREENS. You have to be fair to the SPTE. They had to face the fact that the Tories privatised the buses and trains which left them with hardly any of the intended powers to have an integrated transport system. Unlike some third world countrys have. This present Gov will not even think of re-nationalisation (without compensation). They like Labour and Tory are in the pockets of the privateers and rackateers.
Posted by: Meep, Shawlands on 8:20pm Sat 29 Mar 08
This must be the wake up call for the SPT. Ron Culley needs to be sacked. Under his direction the SPT has failed to show any direction or purpose. Culley has dragged his heels over the need for a metropolitan subway for the whole of Glasgow. And Culley hasnt answered questions on how Glasgow transport structure is going to cope with the commonwelath Games in glasgow. but Transport Scotland is not much better. I have had experience with them over finding out how i would petition to get a new train station built down in my brothers village, and i was fobbed off with an incoherent mailshot that was nonsensical. Transport Scotland needs engineers not bloddy civil servants who pass the buck.
This must be the wake up call for the SPT. Ron Culley needs to be sacked. Under his direction the SPT has failed to show any direction or purpose. Culley has dragged his heels over the need for a metropolitan subway for the whole of Glasgow. And Culley hasnt answered questions on how Glasgow transport structure is going to cope with the commonwelath Games in glasgow. but Transport Scotland is not much better. I have had experience with them over finding out how i would petition to get a new train station built down in my brothers village, and i was fobbed off with an incoherent mailshot that was nonsensical. Transport Scotland needs engineers not bloddy civil servants who pass the buck.
Posted by: People Power, Glasgow on 9:28pm Sat 29 Mar 08
Graham,
You say:
[quote]You obviously do not have a clue as to the effort put in by the SPT(E) over decades to get this rail link.[/quote]
Despite this potentially being the case -
Q: Where are the headlines of SPT's progress and positive changes made for the real benefits of the Public ?
A: They dont exist!
The fact is that however much we parp back to the past - what our politicians specialise in - this is the present - the here & now and it is what is being done NOW that counts! & Where S.P.T. are concerned - it would appear that very little is being done.
The staff of all Subway stations all have that same attitude and completely cut off mannerism that makes them very unpleasant to speak to - they must either be gagged or so brainwashed by their management and ways of working that they cannot see the wood for the trees.
[quote]You have to be fair to the SPTE. They had to face the fact that the Tories privatised the buses and trains which left them with hardly any of the intended powers to have an integrated transport system.[/quote]
As for being fair to the S.P.T.E as you put it - I will be fair to them as soon as they wake up to the wishes of the Public & their management is kicked into touch with reality.
I say this as someone who has consistantly written lengthly letters of complaint to SPT with an 8 week+ delay in getting any kind of response. Even then, I have been fobbed off with a 12 journey ticket.
This is not only insulting, but tells of how little the management of SPT care about the publics wishes and what really counts in terms of how they must move forwards with the time & modernise their mindsets & contracts - not just the structural & building infrastructure.
I re-iterate my words : Get Chair, Councillor Alistair Watson OUT.
And elect in a suitable and far more forwards thinking replacement - ASAP!
Graham,
You say:
You obviously do not have a clue as to the effort put in by the SPT(E) over decades to get this rail link.
Despite this potentially being the case -
Q: Where are the headlines of SPT's progress and positive changes made for the real benefits of the Public ?
A: They dont exist!
The fact is that however much we parp back to the past - what our politicians specialise in - this is the present - the here & now and it is what is being done NOW that counts! & Where S.P.T. are concerned - it would appear that very little is being done.
The staff of all Subway stations all have that same attitude and completely cut off mannerism that makes them very unpleasant to speak to - they must either be gagged or so brainwashed by their management and ways of working that they cannot see the wood for the trees.
You have to be fair to the SPTE. They had to face the fact that the Tories privatised the buses and trains which left them with hardly any of the intended powers to have an integrated transport system.
As for being fair to the S.P.T.E as you put it - I will be fair to them as soon as they wake up to the wishes of the Public & their management is kicked into touch with reality.
I say this as someone who has consistantly written lengthly letters of complaint to SPT with an 8 week+ delay in getting any kind of response. Even then, I have been fobbed off with a 12 journey ticket.
This is not only insulting, but tells of how little the management of SPT care about the publics wishes and what really counts in terms of how they must move forwards with the time & modernise their mindsets & contracts - not just the structural & building infrastructure.
I re-iterate my words : Get Chair, Councillor Alistair Watson OUT.
And elect in a suitable and far more forwards thinking replacement - ASAP!
Posted by: Graham, Glasgow on 10:01pm Sat 29 Mar 08
pp,9:28pm. What is the point of kicking out Watson when a replacement will have no political power to change anything. We need legislation for an integrated public transport policy without profit which is taken for granted in Europe and third world countries. This country is living in the dark ages when it comes to public transport. Absolutely no expectations from the majority of the public. They seem to be content in travelling on converted bone shaking ambulances run by onerous businesses. Its an embarassment. You should talk to visitors to our country! You mean I cant use my ticket on this bus or train? Naw thats the way it is! Integration is a joke word in the public transport industry in Scotland. Only the Gov can change this. LEGISLATION REQUIRED.[bold]bold[/bold]
pp,9:28pm. What is the point of kicking out Watson when a replacement will have no political power to change anything. We need legislation for an integrated public transport policy without profit which is taken for granted in Europe and third world countries. This country is living in the dark ages when it comes to public transport. Absolutely no expectations from the majority of the public. They seem to be content in travelling on converted bone shaking ambulances run by onerous businesses. Its an embarassment. You should talk to visitors to our country! You mean I cant use my ticket on this bus or train? Naw thats the way it is! Integration is a joke word in the public transport industry in Scotland. Only the Gov can change this. LEGISLATION REQUIRED.
Posted by: William B. Pugh, Bethesda, Maryland USA on 12:41am Sun 30 Mar 08
I am not qualified to say who should build the rail lines, but I hope the plans will include a parallel hiker/biker trail as well.
I am not qualified to say who should build the rail lines, but I hope the plans will include a parallel hiker/biker trail as well.
Posted by: Bill Forbes, Shanghai on 3:31am Sun 30 Mar 08
[bold]www.subway2020.com[/bold]
Posted by: People Power, Glasgow on 11:46am Sun 30 Mar 08
Ahhh - Bill,
Where have you been hiding - knew you would straighten this arguement or debate out! Incidentally - where do you stand with regards to Alistair Watsons efforts or lack of effort so far ?
Present tence please!
The legislation needed as Graham said is all very well - but legislation is NOT needed to improve, and buck up the attitudes and ideas of some of the waywards Subway staff in the dark ages - must be all these tunnels & lack of daylight their getting.
Maybe they should all have light boxes to combat symptoms of SAD!
Alternatively, maybe they should all be pulled into line & work acceptable, realistic and much needed hours to meet the demand of the public - not suit the needs of their back dated views & ideas.
Graham - I'll agree with you - not 100% re - legislation as there are alot of measures that need put in to place that simple need negotiation with staff over their contracts and a change of their attitudes. That doesn't necessarily need to cost alot .
As for Watson - I'll stick to my feelings over him - someones head needs to roll - and unless his does people who also berate him will feel things within Glasgows out of touch subway staff will never change.
Communication lines between management, staff, train drivers and the publicity group that must of thought up the ridiculous notion for a 4 day, free party in the Subway Stations.
Some station staff knew little or nothing about this event - perhaps because they were the last to know - and I have seen no posters or flyers for it ?
A complete waste of time, resources and for who's long term benefit ?
Ahhh - Bill,
Where have you been hiding - knew you would straighten this arguement or debate out! Incidentally - where do you stand with regards to Alistair Watsons efforts or lack of effort so far ?
Present tence please!
The legislation needed as Graham said is all very well - but legislation is NOT needed to improve, and buck up the attitudes and ideas of some of the waywards Subway staff in the dark ages - must be all these tunnels & lack of daylight their getting.
Maybe they should all have light boxes to combat symptoms of SAD!
Alternatively, maybe they should all be pulled into line & work acceptable, realistic and much needed hours to meet the demand of the public - not suit the needs of their back dated views & ideas.
Graham - I'll agree with you - not 100% re - legislation as there are alot of measures that need put in to place that simple need negotiation with staff over their contracts and a change of their attitudes. That doesn't necessarily need to cost alot .
As for Watson - I'll stick to my feelings over him - someones head needs to roll - and unless his does people who also berate him will feel things within Glasgows out of touch subway staff will never change.
Communication lines between management, staff, train drivers and the publicity group that must of thought up the ridiculous notion for a 4 day, free party in the Subway Stations.
Some station staff knew little or nothing about this event - perhaps because they were the last to know - and I have seen no posters or flyers for it ?
A complete waste of time, resources and for who's long term benefit ?
Posted by: Bill Forbes, Shanghai on 3:50am Mon 31 Mar 08
People Power,
I am in China just now looking at what they have done to transport for the Olympics, checking up on the new subway system being built in Xian and of course playing on the Maglev in Shanghai.
Please note that no one is paying for my "fact finding mission".
It was still good news to find out that at last someone upstairs has had the guts to take a serious look at the rail link and do something about it.
Perhaps I've played a part in that, who knows?
As far as Cllr watson is concerned, I'd back any calls for him to be removed however I think the real question is whether the SPT as a whole should be removed - one quango less.
The Subway should be stand alone either floated off to the current management (there are some talented people in the SPT) in a not for profit company or put in with the Scotrail franchise in the next review in 3 years time. The latter option would certainly accelerate through ticketing and better integration between rail and subway.
Similarly each local authority could make direct representation to Transport Scotland for their pet transport projects. The competition may do some good; bringing better planned and more thorough options rather than the constant studies which the SPT carry out.
Must go for a beer to celebrate now (remember I'm 8 hours ahead so its O.K.).
Cheers!
People Power,
I am in China just now looking at what they have done to transport for the Olympics, checking up on the new subway system being built in Xian and of course playing on the Maglev in Shanghai.
Please note that no one is paying for my "fact finding mission".
It was still good news to find out that at last someone upstairs has had the guts to take a serious look at the rail link and do something about it.
Perhaps I've played a part in that, who knows?
As far as Cllr watson is concerned, I'd back any calls for him to be removed however I think the real question is whether the SPT as a whole should be removed - one quango less.
The Subway should be stand alone either floated off to the current management (there are some talented people in the SPT) in a not for profit company or put in with the Scotrail franchise in the next review in 3 years time. The latter option would certainly accelerate through ticketing and better integration between rail and subway.
Similarly each local authority could make direct representation to Transport Scotland for their pet transport projects. The competition may do some good; bringing better planned and more thorough options rather than the constant studies which the SPT carry out.
Must go for a beer to celebrate now (remember I'm 8 hours ahead so its O.K.).
Cheers!
Posted by: Colin B, Bearsden on 10:28am Mon 31 Mar 08
Quite right SPT only care about keeping lazy Labour voting staff happy- the Subway has not been extended in over 100 years
Quite right SPT only care about keeping lazy Labour voting staff happy- the Subway has not been extended in over 100 years
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