Salmond challenges rivals over independence
Alex Salmond today challenged opposition parties to come up with an alternative to independence that could be put to the public in a referendum.
The First Minister's challenge came when he launched the latest stage of the Scottish Government's National Conversation on the country's constitutional future.
The SNP hopes to stage a referendum in 2010 on whether Scotland should become independent.
Mr Salmond today suggested the referendum having two other options, more powers for the Scottish Parliament or no change in the present set-up.
And he said that voting in that referendum could be carried out on a system of one-two-three preferences, as used in last year's local government elections.
This differs markedly from what was set out in a document launched last August when the National Conversation began.
That envisaged a simple yes or no answer to the question of independence, although Mr Salmond said at the time he was "relaxed" about other options being included.
A spokesman for Mr Salmond today denied the First Minister was breaking new ground by talking of a preferential voting system.
"In all the many years the SNP have talked out a constitutional multi-option referendum it has always been on the basis of a preferential voting system," said the spokesman.
The First Minister's challenge to rival parties came when he addressed a gathering in Edinburgh of civic groups from Scottish society, including churches, unions and universities.
Engaging "civic Scotland" in the debate on Scotland's constitutional future forms the second phase of the National Conversation which began last August.
A separate commission, chaired by former chief medical officer Sir Kenneth Calman, is reviewing the powers of the Scottish Parliament ten years on from devolution.
| The question is therefore not whether we should have more powers in Edinburgh but what powers and within what timescale? | | Alex Salmond |
|
That commission has the backing of Labour, the Lib Dems and the Tories - and independence has been excluded from its deliberations.
Mr Salmond argued today there was now consensus that the present constitutional framework did not give Scotland the opportunities it needed to succeed.
"The question is therefore not whether we should have more powers in Edinburgh but what powers and within what timescale?" he said.
The First Minister said he was "relaxed" about the commission set-up by the other parties.
But he said: "I have already said that as First Minister that I am happy to test support for enhanced devolution, along with support for independence for Scotland.
"And I say to those who oppose the restoration of Scottish independence that just as I respect absolutely their right to hold that view, so in return I feel able to require of them a clear alternative which can be put onto a ballot paper and held up to public scrutiny and be available for a decision by the Scottish people.
"I say that not as a Nationalist but as a democrat."
Mr Salmond said that unlike the commission, the National Conversation was intended to be inclusive of other views.
He pledged to look seriously at whatever suggestions were made as part of the National Conversation - with one exception.
And that was that some powers of the Scottish Parliament could be passed back to Westminster, as suggested by Gordon Brown, as part of a new devolution arrangement.
Mr Salmond declared: "There is no popular mandate whatsoever for such a diminution of Holyrood - the will of the Scottish people is for the repatriation of more powers and responsibilities here in Scotland."
mfl
Today's event in Edinburgh took place before an audience of around 120 people from bodies ranging from churches to universities, trade unions and business groups.
Mr Salmond declared: "We are entitled to have different opinions about the best constitutional choice for our nation - but as First Minister I today ask simply that those who oppose an independent Scotland assume also the responsibility of constructive opposition.
"This debate is bigger than all of us and bigger than any party.
"It goes to the heart of who we are and who we want to be as a country - a debate so fundamental and so important that it demands that the people of Scotland make the final decision in a referendum."
He later fielded questions from the audience on topics ranging from nuclear weapons to the economy.
It was during these questions that he suggested the possibility of a preferential voting system for the referendum.
"People managed to get their heads around voting one-two-three in STV (the local government elections last year) so I think we want one-two-three in a three-option referendum," he said.
"I'm pretty confident people in Scotland can manage three choices on a ballot paper."
A business questioner told Mr Salmond the business community believes Scotland has the capability to become independent but questioned whether this was feasible or advisable.
"It's about facts and figures, not political rhetoric, that the business community is interested in," he said.
Mr Salmond pointed to Scotland's long-term growth rate of 1.8% compared to 2.5% for the UK and 3.5% in some other countries and declared: "In a nutshell that is the argument."
Mr Salmond argued nothing in Scotland's history gave cause to believe that the country was intrinsically an underperformer, and the answer must lie in the way Scotland's economy was governed as part of the UK.
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Posted by: Alibi on 12:51pm Wed 26 Mar 08
Alex Salmond is always a step ahead of the opposition. He is leading them a merry dance. Every tactic they adopt, he has foreseen it and planned a way to outmanoeuvre them. Brilliant stuff!
Alex Salmond is always a step ahead of the opposition. He is leading them a merry dance. Every tactic they adopt, he has foreseen it and planned a way to outmanoeuvre them. Brilliant stuff!
Posted by: TheGlaswegian, Edinburgh on 1:05pm Wed 26 Mar 08
[quote]This debate is bigger than all of us and bigger than any party.[/quote] Exactly. That's why the unionist parties refusal you to include the SNP in their talks will be their downfall...
This debate is bigger than all of us and bigger than any party.
Exactly. That's why the unionist parties refusal you to include the SNP in their talks will be their downfall...
Posted by: britfree, camelon on 1:06pm Wed 26 Mar 08
could it just be noted , as a fundie , i voted against alex salmond ,at every turn , every internal election since i voted for dear margret in 89(?) . i was spectacularly wrong , he was triumphantly right . if he says the numpties "commision" is a gift to the countrys quest for independence , i accept that . bless his gradulist cotton socks
could it just be noted , as a fundie , i voted against alex salmond ,at every turn , every internal election since i voted for dear margret in 89(?) . i was spectacularly wrong , he was triumphantly right . if he says the numpties "commision" is a gift to the countrys quest for independence , i accept that . bless his gradulist cotton socks
Posted by: Big Eye, Paisley on 1:07pm Wed 26 Mar 08
Now what do the unionists do?. This is an open and democratic offer that tests Independence alongside the best they can come up with.
Scotland will know by their response whether Scotland's or their own party interests come first.
Can't wait!
Now what do the unionists do?. This is an open and democratic offer that tests Independence alongside the best they can come up with.
Scotland will know by their response whether Scotland's or their own party interests come first.
Can't wait!
Posted by: britfree, camelon on 1:13pm Wed 26 Mar 08
as a fundie i voted against A S in every internal election since i voted for the late dear margret in 89 (?) . iwas wrong whilst he has been proven triumphantly right . if he says the numpties "commision" will advance the cause. i believe him , bless his gradulist cotton socks
as a fundie i voted against A S in every internal election since i voted for the late dear margret in 89 (?) . iwas wrong whilst he has been proven triumphantly right . if he says the numpties "commision" will advance the cause. i believe him , bless his gradulist cotton socks
Posted by: Los Angeles, Edinburgh on 1:14pm Wed 26 Mar 08
The opposition parties do not believe in any game played on a field that is not theirs; so, they have rented another pitch, bought their own ball, and will play there game to the rules they invent.
Trouble is, they have no strikers, goal keeper, left wingers, or fans.
The opposition parties do not believe in any game played on a field that is not theirs; so, they have rented another pitch, bought their own ball, and will play there game to the rules they invent.
Trouble is, they have no strikers, goal keeper, left wingers, or fans.
Posted by: Duns Scotus, The Borders on 1:20pm Wed 26 Mar 08
[bold]LA,[/bold] but they know how to score own goals!
LA, but they know how to score own goals!
Posted by: Harry Shanks, Rutherglen on 1:25pm Wed 26 Mar 08
Alibi - You are correct.
What occurs to me is that this meeting would be planned weeks/months ahead. And yet it takes place on the very day after the Unionist cabal shot their bolt by presenting their sham "commission" led by "Uncle Tom" Calman.
If I was Bendy Wendy (god forbid) I'd have the floorboards in her office lifted - my guess is that notwithstanding the political nous of AS, there's an infestation of moles.
Alibi - You are correct.
What occurs to me is that this meeting would be planned weeks/months ahead. And yet it takes place on the very day after the Unionist cabal shot their bolt by presenting their sham "commission" led by "Uncle Tom" Calman.
If I was Bendy Wendy (god forbid) I'd have the floorboards in her office lifted - my guess is that notwithstanding the political nous of AS, there's an infestation of moles.
Posted by: Scunnert, Travelling in Nihlon on 1:27pm Wed 26 Mar 08
[quote][bold]Los Angeles[/bold] wrote:
The opposition parties do not believe in any game played on a field that is not theirs; so, they have rented another pitch, bought their own ball, and will play there game to the rules they invent.
Trouble is, they have no strikers, goal keeper, left wingers, or fans.
[/quote] Ah but they do have a compliant media willing to broadcast their boring fixtures.
Los Angeles wrote:
The opposition parties do not believe in any game played on a field that is not theirs; so, they have rented another pitch, bought their own ball, and will play there game to the rules they invent.
Trouble is, they have no strikers, goal keeper, left wingers, or fans.
Ah but they do have a compliant media willing to broadcast their boring fixtures.
Posted by: george alexander, north lanarkshire on 1:29pm Wed 26 Mar 08
[quote]He later fielded questions from the audience on topics ranging from nuclear weapons to the economy.[/quote]
There you have it in a nutshell, open to scrutiny and prepared to engage publicly.
Will anyone have the opportunity to put their questions or indeed their views to the head of the 'commission'?
He later fielded questions from the audience on topics ranging from nuclear weapons to the economy.
There you have it in a nutshell, open to scrutiny and prepared to engage publicly.
Will anyone have the opportunity to put their questions or indeed their views to the head of the 'commission'?
Posted by: Los Angeles, Edinburgh on 1:30pm Wed 26 Mar 08
The commission, now a modest end of pier review, soon to be a mere discussion document, is a blatant attempt to corral democracy.
However, the way to view it is, if anything of substance that benefits Scotland arises from the Party of Four's soiree we should welcome it ... they will have fulfilled their mundane historical role.
[bold]Let them make the trailer. The SNP makes the movie.[/bold]
The commission, now a modest end of pier review, soon to be a mere discussion document, is a blatant attempt to corral democracy.
However, the way to view it is, if anything of substance that benefits Scotland arises from the Party of Four's soiree we should welcome it ... they will have fulfilled their mundane historical role.
Let them make the trailer. The SNP makes the movie.
Posted by: subrosa on 1:34pm Wed 26 Mar 08
Great move Mr Salmond. Keep it up. As for the trio's commission that will come to nothing. Their performances on Newsnight last night showed them up for what they are and they couldn't make one decision amongst them.
The trio won't be the flavour of the month with the parliament's press office either because they didn't inform them of their party yesterday. Bad politics to upset the workers.
Great move Mr Salmond. Keep it up. As for the trio's commission that will come to nothing. Their performances on Newsnight last night showed them up for what they are and they couldn't make one decision amongst them.
The trio won't be the flavour of the month with the parliament's press office either because they didn't inform them of their party yesterday. Bad politics to upset the workers.
Posted by: Tea Boy at the RBS, Leith on 1:37pm Wed 26 Mar 08
Salmond; blah, blah, blah, chatter, chatter, chatter; all talk and no action. Long on rhetoric but short on substance. Blah, blah, blah, chartter, chatter, chatter.
Salmond; blah, blah, blah, chatter, chatter, chatter; all talk and no action. Long on rhetoric but short on substance. Blah, blah, blah, chartter, chatter, chatter.
Posted by: Los Angeles, Edinburgh on 1:39pm Wed 26 Mar 08
Once A Tea Boy, Always a Tea Boy[quote]Salmond; blah, blah, blah, chatter, chatter, chatter; all talk and no action. Long on rhetoric but short on substance. Blah, blah, blah, chartter, chatter, chatter.[/quote] Tea Boy, chatter chatter - long on blah blah, short on politics.
Once A Tea Boy, Always a Tea Boy
Salmond; blah, blah, blah, chatter, chatter, chatter; all talk and no action. Long on rhetoric but short on substance. Blah, blah, blah, chartter, chatter, chatter.
Tea Boy, chatter chatter - long on blah blah, short on politics.
Posted by: Jwil, Lanarkshire on 1:54pm Wed 26 Mar 08
The three wise monkeys’ performance on Newsnight Scotland last night:- Uninspiring, uninformative and unfriendly.
The three wise monkeys’ performance on Newsnight Scotland last night:- Uninspiring, uninformative and unfriendly.
Posted by: TheGlaswegian, Edinburgh on 1:58pm Wed 26 Mar 08
Big Eye, [quote]Now what do the unionists do?. This is an open and democratic offer that tests Independence alongside the best they can come up with[/quote]
Yeah. They are now firmly stuck. The really need to get their fingers out and put in their very best effort for the good of Scotland - mission impossible when Westminster have the final say.. and we are talking bout a team that includes Wendy Alexander and Nicol Stephen :-) MWuuuhahahaha Thankfully, for Scotland, Alex is far to clever for anything Broon, Cameron or Clegg can conjour up
Big Eye,
Now what do the unionists do?. This is an open and democratic offer that tests Independence alongside the best they can come up with
Yeah. They are now firmly stuck. The really need to get their fingers out and put in their very best effort for the good of Scotland - mission impossible when Westminster have the final say.. and we are talking bout a team that includes Wendy Alexander and Nicol Stephen :-) MWuuuhahahaha Thankfully, for Scotland, Alex is far to clever for anything Broon, Cameron or Clegg can conjour up
Posted by: roger, Glasgow on 2:00pm Wed 26 Mar 08
was wendy alexander chewing a caramel on newsnight scotland?
was wendy alexander chewing a caramel on newsnight scotland?
Posted by: Toophingers, Bellshill. on 2:00pm Wed 26 Mar 08
[quote][bold]Tea Boy at the RBS[/bold] wrote:
Salmond; blah, blah, blah, chatter, chatter, chatter; all talk and no action. Long on rhetoric but short on substance. Blah, blah, blah, chartter, chatter, chatter.[/quote] Although it would take a lot of dynamite to blow the Westminster renegades out of their gravy train seats and into the real world keep up the pressure, Alex.
As for the office junior he'll never reach the position Alex had with the RBS - senior financial and oil adviser, a position the wee yin's prevaricating wee brother Dougie tried to mislead viewers to the Oban council about with the words 'The biggest economic decision he has ever had to make was how much to put on the three thirty at Kempton Park'.
Two sugars, no milk in mine, boy. And hurry up.
Tea Boy at the RBS wrote:
Salmond; blah, blah, blah, chatter, chatter, chatter; all talk and no action. Long on rhetoric but short on substance. Blah, blah, blah, chartter, chatter, chatter.
Although it would take a lot of dynamite to blow the Westminster renegades out of their gravy train seats and into the real world keep up the pressure, Alex.
As for the office junior he'll never reach the position Alex had with the RBS - senior financial and oil adviser, a position the wee yin's prevaricating wee brother Dougie tried to mislead viewers to the Oban council about with the words 'The biggest economic decision he has ever had to make was how much to put on the three thirty at Kempton Park'.
Two sugars, no milk in mine, boy. And hurry up.
Posted by: stonehaven on 2:16pm Wed 26 Mar 08
After this, Wendy must be feeling rather deflated.........
After this, Wendy must be feeling rather deflated.........
Posted by: carazak, livingston on 2:26pm Wed 26 Mar 08
Could you all spare a little sympathy for a neighbour of mine, On hearing of the announcement of this review/commission he broke down in tears of dispair. You see he works for a well known paint manufacturer and the last time there was government enquiry/review his wife did not see hide nor hair of him for weeks on end (due to the amount of overtime). He fears that the amount of overtime required to produce the necessary tins of whitewash for this review/commission will finally end their relationship.
Could you all spare a little sympathy for a neighbour of mine, On hearing of the announcement of this review/commission he broke down in tears of dispair. You see he works for a well known paint manufacturer and the last time there was government enquiry/review his wife did not see hide nor hair of him for weeks on end (due to the amount of overtime). He fears that the amount of overtime required to produce the necessary tins of whitewash for this review/commission will finally end their relationship.
Posted by: JBlackley, Florida on 2:28pm Wed 26 Mar 08
"Mr Salmond argued today there was now consensus that the present constitutional framework did not give Scotland the opportunities it needed to succeed."
Mr. Blackley argues today that Mr. Salmond is engaging in the very same politcospeak for which he chastises others.
'Consensus' among whom? Mr. Salmond's nationalist sympathisers? The coat-tail grabbers and door-openers that are his everyday companions?
Out here in the real world there is no such consensus and Mr. Salmond would do well to avoid proclamations such as this.
"Mr Salmond argued today there was now consensus that the present constitutional framework did not give Scotland the opportunities it needed to succeed."
Mr. Blackley argues today that Mr. Salmond is engaging in the very same politcospeak for which he chastises others.
'Consensus' among whom? Mr. Salmond's nationalist sympathisers? The coat-tail grabbers and door-openers that are his everyday companions?
Out here in the real world there is no such consensus and Mr. Salmond would do well to avoid proclamations such as this.
Posted by: martin, edinburgh on 2:39pm Wed 26 Mar 08
to be honest, just have a referendum on independence, yay or nay, no if's, but's, criteria, addendum, conditionals, just yes or no
If it's yes scotland goes independent, if it's no the nationalists shut their peep for a generation.
However it is well known that salmond fears the border vote :-)
to be honest, just have a referendum on independence, yay or nay, no if's, but's, criteria, addendum, conditionals, just yes or no
If it's yes scotland goes independent, if it's no the nationalists shut their peep for a generation.
However it is well known that salmond fears the border vote :-)
Posted by: robmcdonald, East Kilbride on 2:47pm Wed 26 Mar 08
JBlackley says darkly:
[quote]'Consensus' among whom?[/quote]
...amongst the thinking people whom you disregard at your peril Mr Blabour
JBlackley says darkly:
'Consensus' among whom?
...amongst the thinking people whom you disregard at your peril Mr Blabour
Posted by: Duns Scotus, The Borders on 3:11pm Wed 26 Mar 08
[quote][bold]stonehaven[/bold] wrote:
After this, Wendy must be feeling rather deflated.........[/quote] and tyred, she's no had a Goodyear.
stonehaven wrote:
After this, Wendy must be feeling rather deflated.........
and tyred, she's no had a Goodyear.
Posted by: Watson, Irvine on 3:15pm Wed 26 Mar 08
Wendy, Nick and Annabell couldn't come up with a new idea if their lives depended on it. They want what we have now and nothing else. The Scottish Government is looking to the future and to the prosperity of the Scottish people. Labour is looking to their own prosperity, Nick just doesn't have a clue and Annabell has a brain but won't use it.
Wendy, Nick and Annabell couldn't come up with a new idea if their lives depended on it. They want what we have now and nothing else. The Scottish Government is looking to the future and to the prosperity of the Scottish people. Labour is looking to their own prosperity, Nick just doesn't have a clue and Annabell has a brain but won't use it.
Posted by: Alex on 3:50pm Wed 26 Mar 08
[bold]Wee Eck[/bold] : "let me in".
[bold]The adults[/bold] : "Whit fur"?
[bold]Eck[/bold] "Ah want tae burn the hoose doon"
[bold]The adults[/bold]: "Are you aff yer heid"?
[bold]Eck[/bold] "There's a consensus". (aside) "[italic]That'll snooker thum.... hehe"[/italic]
[bold]The adults[/bold]: "Whit consuensus wid that be"?
[bold]Eck[/bold] "Thurr's hunners o' us, ah tell ye. Hunners".
[bold]The adults[/bold]: "But there's thoosands o' us".
[bold]Eck[/bold] "Aye but you don't agree wi' me, so your majority isnae a consensus".
[bold]The adults[/bold]: "Get lost ya we bachle, we're no lettin' ye burn doon a perfectly good hoose".
[bold]Eck[/bold] "That's a foul. You're no democratic. Ma hunners is better than your thoosands any day".
[bold]The adults[/bold]: "Kin ye no coont, ya wee fool. Ye're in a tiny minority. Bugger off".
[bold]Eck[/bold] "Wah. Wah. Mammy. That's no fair. Them sensible people win't let me intae the hoose so ah kin burn it doon. And Ah've got a consesnsus o' hunners as well. Ah'm gonnae whinge an' greet and moan and go tae the Unitit Nations an everythin. It's no fair... victimisation...gree
t (sigh) moan (sigh) whinge (sigh), swear (sigh)...oh look, Ah'm rewriting the SNP Manifesto even as Ah speak..."."...
Wee Eck : "let me in".
The adults : "Whit fur"?
Eck "Ah want tae burn the hoose doon"
The adults: "Are you aff yer heid"?
Eck "There's a consensus". (aside) "
That'll snooker thum.... hehe"
The adults: "Whit consuensus wid that be"?
Eck "Thurr's hunners o' us, ah tell ye. Hunners".
The adults: "But there's thoosands o' us".
Eck "Aye but you don't agree wi' me, so your majority isnae a consensus".
The adults: "Get lost ya we bachle, we're no lettin' ye burn doon a perfectly good hoose".
Eck "That's a foul. You're no democratic. Ma hunners is better than your thoosands any day".
The adults: "Kin ye no coont, ya wee fool. Ye're in a tiny minority. Bugger off".
Eck "Wah. Wah. Mammy. That's no fair. Them sensible people win't let me intae the hoose so ah kin burn it doon. And Ah've got a consesnsus o' hunners as well. Ah'm gonnae whinge an' greet and moan and go tae the Unitit Nations an everythin. It's no fair... victimisation...gree
t (sigh) moan (sigh) whinge (sigh), swear (sigh)...oh look, Ah'm rewriting the SNP Manifesto even as Ah speak..."."...
Posted by: Grenscot, Grenada on 3:51pm Wed 26 Mar 08
JBlackley Florida wrote:
"Mr Salmond argued today there was now consensus that the present constitutional framework did not give Scotland the opportunities it needed to succeed."
Mr. Blackley argues today that Mr. Salmond is engaging in the very same politcospeak for which he chastises others.
'Consensus' among whom? Mr. Salmond's nationalist sympathisers? The coat-tail grabbers and door-openers that are his everyday companions?
Out here in the real world there is no such consensus and Mr. Salmond would do well to avoid proclamations such as this."
I refer him to Douglas Fraser's blog of March 17th where he breaks down some of the MRUK poll results as follows:
Scotland's constitutional future
Independence 23
More powers for devolved Holyrood 45
Status quo 22
Fewer powers for Holyrood 3
Abolish the Scottish Parliament 6
68% in favour of either independence or more powers for the Scottish Parliament looks pretty much like a consensus to me, especially when you compare it to 22% for the status quo and 9% for reduced powers or abolition of the Scottish Parliament
JBlackley Florida wrote:
"Mr Salmond argued today there was now consensus that the present constitutional framework did not give Scotland the opportunities it needed to succeed."
Mr. Blackley argues today that Mr. Salmond is engaging in the very same politcospeak for which he chastises others.
'Consensus' among whom? Mr. Salmond's nationalist sympathisers? The coat-tail grabbers and door-openers that are his everyday companions?
Out here in the real world there is no such consensus and Mr. Salmond would do well to avoid proclamations such as this."
I refer him to Douglas Fraser's blog of March 17th where he breaks down some of the MRUK poll results as follows:
Scotland's constitutional future
Independence 23
More powers for devolved Holyrood 45
Status quo 22
Fewer powers for Holyrood 3
Abolish the Scottish Parliament 6
68% in favour of either independence or more powers for the Scottish Parliament looks pretty much like a consensus to me, especially when you compare it to 22% for the status quo and 9% for reduced powers or abolition of the Scottish Parliament
Posted by: TheGlaswegian, Edinburgh on 3:57pm Wed 26 Mar 08
Alex ,
What party received the most votes in last years Scottish elections including more than 10,000 greater than it's nearest rival?
What party returned more than 100 local council seats [bold]above[/bold] it's already increased target?
What party is in control of most Scottish local councils?
What party forms the Scottish Government?
Who is our First Minister?
What party do the polls suggest is goign from strength to strength?
What party do the polls suggest is imploding in on itself?
You've had nearly a year to let this sink in... get with the progam or get left behind.
Alex ,
What party received the most votes in last years Scottish elections including more than 10,000 greater than it's nearest rival?
What party returned more than 100 local council seats
above it's already increased target?
What party is in control of most Scottish local councils?
What party forms the Scottish Government?
Who is our First Minister?
What party do the polls suggest is goign from strength to strength?
What party do the polls suggest is imploding in on itself?
You've had nearly a year to let this sink in... get with the progam or get left behind.
Posted by: GML, right here on 4:08pm Wed 26 Mar 08
In the words of Arthur Schopenhauer, German philosopher:
[italic]“All truth passes through three stages. First it is ridiculed. Second, it is violently opposed. Third, it is accepted as self-evident.”[/italic]
I imagine most members of the Labour, Liberal Democrat and Conservative parties now accept it as self-evident that the Republic of Ireland should be an independent country....
In the words of Arthur Schopenhauer, German philosopher:
“All truth passes through three stages. First it is ridiculed. Second, it is violently opposed. Third, it is accepted as self-evident.”
I imagine most members of the Labour, Liberal Democrat and Conservative parties now accept it as self-evident that the Republic of Ireland should be an independent country....
Posted by: Hamish McKropotkin, Bannockburn on 4:13pm Wed 26 Mar 08
How difficult is this for the hard of thinking at the Nat HQ?
We have a referendum every time we cast our votes. There's a chance to express our opinion every we vote. When the Scottish electorate were last given the chance to indicate how they wanted their country governed a massive 16% opted for independence.
Now stop greetin and wasting time and money and start governing.....
How difficult is this for the hard of thinking at the Nat HQ?
We have a referendum every time we cast our votes. There's a chance to express our opinion every we vote. When the Scottish electorate were last given the chance to indicate how they wanted their country governed a massive 16% opted for independence.
Now stop greetin and wasting time and money and start governing.....
Posted by: Wallace, Perth on 4:21pm Wed 26 Mar 08
Ah GML, you're forgetting that according to most unionists, we Scots are the only nation on earth who are incapable of governing ourselves or taking charge of our own affairs, whether that be economic, business, social or military.
Mind you, I always find that strange, when their unionist parties down south are quite heavily populated among their most influential members by Scottish MP's. To such an extent that the largely Tory press down there complain of being run by a "Scottish mafia"!
But up here, our unionist forelock tuggers decry any Scot, such as Salmond, Sturgeon, Swinney, etc., with the inane type of put-down, "Him a brain surgeon? Hmmph, Ah kent his faither!"
Ah GML, you're forgetting that according to most unionists, we Scots are the only nation on earth who are incapable of governing ourselves or taking charge of our own affairs, whether that be economic, business, social or military.
Mind you, I always find that strange, when their unionist parties down south are quite heavily populated among their most influential members by Scottish MP's. To such an extent that the largely Tory press down there complain of being run by a "Scottish mafia"!
But up here, our unionist forelock tuggers decry any Scot, such as Salmond, Sturgeon, Swinney, etc., with the inane type of put-down, "Him a brain surgeon? Hmmph, Ah kent his faither!"
Posted by: Hamish McKropotkin, Bannockburn on 4:24pm Wed 26 Mar 08
Wallace,
Unionists don't say that, you do......
Wallace,
Unionists don't say that, you do......
Posted by: Peter Thomson, Bownovitch - the peasants are revolting on 4:28pm Wed 26 Mar 08
Hamish (16:13) that means less voted for each of the other parties so the majority of voters voted for the SNP or they would not have the most seats. Note that most polls have around 80% of Scots seeking more powers for Holyrood and or independence.
The percentage of Independence preference voters is on a rising trend (range 30 to 41%) over the last six months worth of polls so the party vote does not seem in anyway to refelct how the people of Scotland are thinking.
I was once a card carrying Libdum but now I see there is a far better way for Scotland within Europe with an independent government free from Wasteminster.
Hamish (16:13) that means less voted for each of the other parties so the majority of voters voted for the SNP or they would not have the most seats. Note that most polls have around 80% of Scots seeking more powers for Holyrood and or independence.
The percentage of Independence preference voters is on a rising trend (range 30 to 41%) over the last six months worth of polls so the party vote does not seem in anyway to refelct how the people of Scotland are thinking.
I was once a card carrying Libdum but now I see there is a far better way for Scotland within Europe with an independent government free from Wasteminster.
Posted by: puskas, East Kilbride on 4:30pm Wed 26 Mar 08
[quote][bold]stonehaven[/bold] wrote:
After this, Wendy must be feeling rather deflated.........[/quote] Hi Stonehaven
Too thick to feel deflated and to full of her own importance.
Why that should be is probably due to the media telling everyone fairy stories about how bright she is.. She's that thick she believes them..
stonehaven wrote:
After this, Wendy must be feeling rather deflated.........
Hi Stonehaven
Too thick to feel deflated and to full of her own importance.
Why that should be is probably due to the media telling everyone fairy stories about how bright she is.. She's that thick she believes them..
Posted by: TheGlaswegian, Edinburgh on 4:31pm Wed 26 Mar 08
Hamish,
29% of Scots voted for parties that support the union at the last opportunity. The real figure for those in support of the union is likely to be much less given that not all of these voted for the union per se when they vote for labour - they simple vote for labour regarldess of their stance re the union.
Hamish,
29% of Scots voted for parties that support the union at the last opportunity. The real figure for those in support of the union is likely to be much less given that not all of these voted for the union per se when they vote for labour - they simple vote for labour regarldess of their stance re the union.
Posted by: Hamish McKropotkin, Bannockburn on 4:32pm Wed 26 Mar 08
peter,
i'm very pleased for you. being a libdem for so long will prepare you for being on the margins of politics. There is no clamour for this, let the nats make this a central plank of their policy and let the people decide....oh siht they did! and guess what? the majority voted against a referendum...democra
cy, yeah???
peter,
i'm very pleased for you. being a libdem for so long will prepare you for being on the margins of politics. There is no clamour for this, let the nats make this a central plank of their policy and let the people decide....oh siht they did! and guess what? the majority voted against a referendum...democra
cy, yeah???
Posted by: talorthane on 4:42pm Wed 26 Mar 08
Hamish
The election you refer to was not a referendum on independence, it was an election on which party the electorate wanted to run the country.
In May 2007, for the first time, the electorate gave their mandate to the SNP.
What has happened since?
The approval ratings for the SNP and for Alex Salmond has continued to rise.
What will happen next?
Wait and see.
Before May 2007, it was the accepted view that the SNP would never win an election.
They won.
It was the accepted view that they would never survive as a minority government.
They did.
It was the accepted view that they would never get their budget through Parliament.
The SNP budget was passed.
Now the accepted view is that they will never achieve their pledge of having a referendum.
Wait and see.
Hamish
The election you refer to was not a referendum on independence, it was an election on which party the electorate wanted to run the country.
In May 2007, for the first time, the electorate gave their mandate to the SNP.
What has happened since?
The approval ratings for the SNP and for Alex Salmond has continued to rise.
What will happen next?
Wait and see.
Before May 2007, it was the accepted view that the SNP would never win an election.
They won.
It was the accepted view that they would never survive as a minority government.
They did.
It was the accepted view that they would never get their budget through Parliament.
The SNP budget was passed.
Now the accepted view is that they will never achieve their pledge of having a referendum.
Wait and see.
Posted by: Alex on 4:43pm Wed 26 Mar 08
[quote][bold]TheGlaswegian[/bold] wrote:
Hamish, 29% of Scots voted for parties that support the union at the last opportunity. The real figure for those in support of the union is likely to be much less given that not all of these voted for the union per se when they vote for labour - they simple vote for labour regarldess of their stance re the union. [/quote] Mr TheGlaswegian
I pointed out in my reply to you above that, on a 51.7% turnout, 33% (approx 17% of all Scots voters) voted for parties which had independence in their Manifesto and 67% (approx 35% of all Scots voters) voted for parties which support the union.
If a referendun is so sure to give AS the result he wants, why doesn't he call one? Whit's he feart o'?
TheGlaswegian wrote:
Hamish, 29% of Scots voted for parties that support the union at the last opportunity. The real figure for those in support of the union is likely to be much less given that not all of these voted for the union per se when they vote for labour - they simple vote for labour regarldess of their stance re the union.
Mr TheGlaswegian
I pointed out in my reply to you above that, on a 51.7% turnout, 33% (approx 17% of all Scots voters) voted for parties which had independence in their Manifesto and 67% (approx 35% of all Scots voters) voted for parties which support the union.
If a referendun is so sure to give AS the result he wants, why doesn't he call one? Whit's he feart o'?
Posted by: puskas, East Kilbride on 4:47pm Wed 26 Mar 08
[quote][bold]Hamish McKropotkin[/bold] wrote:
GML Who gives afcuk about Ireland? This is Scotland, we are not oppressed or victims of occupation. Just as an aside, I take it you supported the right of British troops to be in Ulster during the troubles?[/quote] In many ways the Scottish people have been oppressed by deceit, corruption and **** lies from Westminster .
The politicians who have for many years taken the Queens shilling became very rich by being quislings to their own people..
As an internationalist I wish all counties and people freedom and friendship.. Freedom for my country Scotland to choose its own destiny .
Hamish McKropotkin wrote:
GML Who gives afcuk about Ireland? This is Scotland, we are not oppressed or victims of occupation. Just as an aside, I take it you supported the right of British troops to be in Ulster during the troubles?
In many ways the Scottish people have been oppressed by deceit, corruption and **** lies from Westminster .
The politicians who have for many years taken the Queens shilling became very rich by being quislings to their own people..
As an internationalist I wish all counties and people freedom and friendship.. Freedom for my country Scotland to choose its own destiny .
Posted by: Wallace, Perth on 4:51pm Wed 26 Mar 08
The now independent (and successful) Republic of Ireland was mentioned briefly earlier. I recall reading in an historical account of the Easter Rising of 1916 that when the rebels surrendered in their last stand at the GPO in Dublin, when they were being marched away by the victorious British troops and police, the watching Dubliners were "spitting on them and throwing stones at them".
Seems in those early days of the fight for independence, the Irish too had their fellow-travellers, detractors, and forelock tugging supporters of "unionism".
With regard to Scotland not being an occupied country, I quite agree this is the case - at the present time. I wonder if that situation will outlast any future threat of Scotland regaining its independence, if and when a majority of the people vote for it?
I is historical fact that when the so-called "red clydesiders" were baton charged by the police in Glasgow's George Square during the depression between the wars, the then UK Home Secretary, one Winston Churchill, had tanks stationed in the shipping sheds of the Broomielaw, ready to crush any threat of revolt in Scotland's major city.
Quite a Stalinist tactic, in keeping with your chosen Russian style nom de plume, don't you think, Hamish McKropotkin?
The now independent (and successful) Republic of Ireland was mentioned briefly earlier. I recall reading in an historical account of the Easter Rising of 1916 that when the rebels surrendered in their last stand at the GPO in Dublin, when they were being marched away by the victorious British troops and police, the watching Dubliners were "spitting on them and throwing stones at them".
Seems in those early days of the fight for independence, the Irish too had their fellow-travellers, detractors, and forelock tugging supporters of "unionism".
With regard to Scotland not being an occupied country, I quite agree this is the case - at the present time. I wonder if that situation will outlast any future threat of Scotland regaining its independence, if and when a majority of the people vote for it?
I is historical fact that when the so-called "red clydesiders" were baton charged by the police in Glasgow's George Square during the depression between the wars, the then UK Home Secretary, one Winston Churchill, had tanks stationed in the shipping sheds of the Broomielaw, ready to crush any threat of revolt in Scotland's major city.
Quite a Stalinist tactic, in keeping with your chosen Russian style nom de plume, don't you think, Hamish McKropotkin?
Posted by: Los Angeles, Edinburgh on 4:52pm Wed 26 Mar 08
Chairman Hamish Krapology[quote]GML - Who gives afcuk about Ireland?[/quote] Let's see now:
You hate the Irish, the Welsh, Scots who care for their country, non-Scots who vote SNP, immigrants even if they are naturalised, the English who think the Scots are right and just to govern their own country again ...
... really only you left that you admire.
Chairman Hamish Krapology
GML - Who gives afcuk about Ireland?
Let's see now:
You hate the Irish, the Welsh, Scots who care for their country, non-Scots who vote SNP, immigrants even if they are naturalised, the English who think the Scots are right and just to govern their own country again ...
... really only you left that you admire.
Posted by: puskas, East Kilbride on 4:52pm Wed 26 Mar 08
[quote][bold]TheGlaswegian[/bold] wrote:
Hamish, 29% of Scots voted for parties that support the union at the last opportunity. The real figure for those in support of the union is likely to be much less given that not all of these voted for the union per se when they vote for labour - they simple vote for labour regarldess of their stance re the union. [/quote] Hi Glaswegian,
Too true... Are some that thick from education failure your words although true are not understood..
TheGlaswegian wrote:
Hamish, 29% of Scots voted for parties that support the union at the last opportunity. The real figure for those in support of the union is likely to be much less given that not all of these voted for the union per se when they vote for labour - they simple vote for labour regarldess of their stance re the union.
Hi Glaswegian,
Too true... Are some that thick from education failure your words although true are not understood..
Posted by: Los Angeles, Edinburgh on 4:56pm Wed 26 Mar 08
Alex "The Play What I Wrote"[quote]Wee Eck : "let me in".
The adults : "Whit fur"?
Eck "Ah want tae burn the hoose doon"[/quote] Your script has been assessed. The reader's report says:
"Not much talent for natural dialogue, less for insight into human nature, might manage ten minuite educational radio programme>"
Regretfully, we must pass on your project.
Alex "The Play What I Wrote"
Wee Eck : "let me in".
The adults : "Whit fur"?
Eck "Ah want tae burn the hoose doon"
Your script has been assessed. The reader's report says:
"Not much talent for natural dialogue, less for insight into human nature, might manage ten minuite educational radio programme>"
Regretfully, we must pass on your project.
Posted by: Smellie, Smellieville on 4:57pm Wed 26 Mar 08
"Mr Salmond today suggested the referendum having two other options, more powers for the Scottish Parliament or no change in the present set-up."
1. Yes let's have independence. 34%
2. No let's do this instead. 33%
3. No let's do that instead. 33%
Oh look, option 1 got the most votes. Whoopee.... how clever.
"Mr Salmond today suggested the referendum having two other options, more powers for the Scottish Parliament or no change in the present set-up."
1. Yes let's have independence. 34%
2. No let's do this instead. 33%
3. No let's do that instead. 33%
Oh look, option 1 got the most votes. Whoopee.... how clever.
Posted by: Wardog, Buckie on 4:57pm Wed 26 Mar 08
Alex on 3:50pm today - Wee Eck : "let me in".
I knew you unionists had it in ye tae be funny... good post
Alex on 3:50pm today - Wee Eck : "let me in".
I knew you unionists had it in ye tae be funny... good post
Posted by: Los Angeles, Edinburgh on 4:58pm Wed 26 Mar 08
Smellie Armpits Leven[quote]Oh look, option 1 got the most votes. Whoopee.... how clever.[/quote] Not half as clever as your post. Rivetting stuff.
Smellie Armpits Leven
Oh look, option 1 got the most votes. Whoopee.... how clever.
Not half as clever as your post. Rivetting stuff.
Posted by: george alexander, north lanarkshire on 5:01pm Wed 26 Mar 08
[quote]We have a referendum every time we cast our votes.[/quote]
The above post is from a Unionist this time calling himself 'Hamish'. This poster knows that he has typed and posted an untruth, he also knows that readers of the comment know it is untrue.
This is what is passing as 'debate' amongst the small band of fundamentalist Scottish Unionists. I have no doubt that the poster is well aware of the growing support for more powers amongst the electorate and that it fills him with dread.
It is comforting to know that momentum is with the pro-independence movement, a momentum that Unionists hope can be diminished by refusing to acknowledge it. A Union of sorts may well endure for a while yet but one thing is for sure, it won't be the Union that 'Hamish' so worships today.
That particular Union is already dead and Dr 'Franken-Brown' with his helper 'Igor Alexander' will not be able to resurrect it.
We have a referendum every time we cast our votes.
The above post is from a Unionist this time calling himself 'Hamish'. This poster knows that he has typed and posted an untruth, he also knows that readers of the comment know it is untrue.
This is what is passing as 'debate' amongst the small band of fundamentalist Scottish Unionists. I have no doubt that the poster is well aware of the growing support for more powers amongst the electorate and that it fills him with dread.
It is comforting to know that momentum is with the pro-independence movement, a momentum that Unionists hope can be diminished by refusing to acknowledge it. A Union of sorts may well endure for a while yet but one thing is for sure, it won't be the Union that 'Hamish' so worships today.
That particular Union is already dead and Dr 'Franken-Brown' with his helper 'Igor Alexander' will not be able to resurrect it.
Posted by: Los Angeles, Edinburgh on 5:04pm Wed 26 Mar 08
Puskas[quote]In many ways the Scottish people have been [bold]oppressed[/bold] by deceit, corruption, lies from Westminster .[/quote] Marginalised, and generally ignored; ambitions and institutions considered second-rate, or at least of secondary importance, in comparison to their UK equivalents even when manifestly first rate. The Welsh have not faired any better.
Puskas
In many ways the Scottish people have been oppressed by deceit, corruption, lies from Westminster .
Marginalised, and generally ignored; ambitions and institutions considered second-rate, or at least of secondary importance, in comparison to their UK equivalents even when manifestly first rate. The Welsh have not faired any better.
Posted by: Wallace, Perth on 5:21pm Wed 26 Mar 08
Quite right LA. I once read, some years ago that Teddy Taylor, a lifetime and sincere MP of the old style Conservative and Unionist Party, was regarded with quiet contempt by those top Tories down south whom he so admired and aspired to be like. Pathetic from his point of view, disgraceful and patronising from theirs.
I know I keep mentioning historical precedents, but I feel this one needs to be mentioned as it's relevant even today - even at the Battle of Bannockburn, there were Scots fighting on the English side for purely personal reasons, mainly because they were Bruce haters.
I think of myself as a democrat and respect the right of every other person to hold and express his or her own sincerely held opinion, but when I read some the posts by the likes of AM2, PtbS, Grahamski and especially of that Barry Humphries' caricature, Exiled Les Patterson, I admit I do despair. How can they be fooled by such numpties as the current pathetic crop of Labour MSP's?
Alexander, Baillie, Foulkes, McNeil, Curran, etc., That lot even make Cameron's granny, the venerable Goldie, look good by comparison.
Quite right LA. I once read, some years ago that Teddy Taylor, a lifetime and sincere MP of the old style Conservative and Unionist Party, was regarded with quiet contempt by those top Tories down south whom he so admired and aspired to be like. Pathetic from his point of view, disgraceful and patronising from theirs.
I know I keep mentioning historical precedents, but I feel this one needs to be mentioned as it's relevant even today - even at the Battle of Bannockburn, there were Scots fighting on the English side for purely personal reasons, mainly because they were Bruce haters.
I think of myself as a democrat and respect the right of every other person to hold and express his or her own sincerely held opinion, but when I read some the posts by the likes of AM2, PtbS, Grahamski and especially of that Barry Humphries' caricature, Exiled Les Patterson, I admit I do despair. How can they be fooled by such numpties as the current pathetic crop of Labour MSP's?
Alexander, Baillie, Foulkes, McNeil, Curran, etc., That lot even make Cameron's granny, the venerable Goldie, look good by comparison.
Posted by: troll, pomona on 5:22pm Wed 26 Mar 08
Who wants to have anything to do with this independent, dependency committee of has beens.
Let the voters decide.
Who wants to have anything to do with this independent, dependency committee of has beens.
Let the voters decide.
Posted by: PaulW, Borders on 5:29pm Wed 26 Mar 08
[quote][bold]GML[/bold] wrote:
In the words of Arthur Schopenhauer, German philosopher: [italic]“All truth passes through three stages. First it is ridiculed. Second, it is violently opposed. Third, it is accepted as self-evident.”[/italic] I imagine most members of the Labour, Liberal Democrat and Conservative parties now accept it as self-evident that the Republic of Ireland should be an independent country....[/quote] GML - a fantastic quote and I get the point you mean exactly, unlike the numpty from bannockburn who replied to you. You could say the same of Independence for Canada, Australia, NZ, the USA (all from Britain), Norway (independent of Sweden) etc and any other number of successful such national movements. None have asked to return to the 'mother ship' (probably too benign a term) / empire (more accurate). Probably all of these movements were at first ridiculed and then resisted. All the best. P.
GML wrote:
In the words of Arthur Schopenhauer, German philosopher: “All truth passes through three stages. First it is ridiculed. Second, it is violently opposed. Third, it is accepted as self-evident.” I imagine most members of the Labour, Liberal Democrat and Conservative parties now accept it as self-evident that the Republic of Ireland should be an independent country....
GML - a fantastic quote and I get the point you mean exactly, unlike the numpty from bannockburn who replied to you. You could say the same of Independence for Canada, Australia, NZ, the USA (all from Britain), Norway (independent of Sweden) etc and any other number of successful such national movements. None have asked to return to the 'mother ship' (probably too benign a term) / empire (more accurate). Probably all of these movements were at first ridiculed and then resisted. All the best. P.
Posted by: Wallace, Perth on 5:41pm Wed 26 Mar 08
PaulW, I agree with you on the subject of GML's exellent post. I was listening this morning to a programme on the advance of medical science in Scotland of the late 19th and early 20th century, and it seems that the advances of the likes of Fleming (penicillin), Lister (anti-sceptic surgery), Simpson (anaesthesia) and McEwan (asceptic surgery), were all opposed by fellow surgeons of their time.
So it is with our aspirations to be an independent nation, completely responsible for our own affairs again. There will always be those who want to remain tied to Mother England's apron strings, afraid of making their own way in the world of other proudly independent nations. Unfortunately, most of these people go by the principle of "better the devil you know ..."
PaulW, I agree with you on the subject of GML's exellent post. I was listening this morning to a programme on the advance of medical science in Scotland of the late 19th and early 20th century, and it seems that the advances of the likes of Fleming (penicillin), Lister (anti-sceptic surgery), Simpson (anaesthesia) and McEwan (asceptic surgery), were all opposed by fellow surgeons of their time.
So it is with our aspirations to be an independent nation, completely responsible for our own affairs again. There will always be those who want to remain tied to Mother England's apron strings, afraid of making their own way in the world of other proudly independent nations. Unfortunately, most of these people go by the principle of "better the devil you know ..."
Posted by: Alex on 5:42pm Wed 26 Mar 08
[quote][bold]Wardog[/bold] wrote:
Alex on 3:50pm today - Wee Eck : "let me in". I knew you unionists had it in ye tae be funny... good post[/quote] Well thank you wardog. We aim to please.
Just as a matter of clarification: I'm not a unionist....
Wardog wrote:
Alex on 3:50pm today - Wee Eck : "let me in". I knew you unionists had it in ye tae be funny... good post
Well thank you wardog. We aim to please.
Just as a matter of clarification: I'm not a unionist....
Posted by: Los Angeles, Edinburgh on 5:42pm Wed 26 Mar 08
Wallace Wear The Right Trousers[quote]Quite right LA.[/quote] Good points, Wallace.
You can be a first rate achiever in your vocation or field of expertise but until and unless those of influence in England recognise your worth - usually for their own profit - you will not be respected as anything but provincial.
The meek and timid bloggers you mention reek of craven subservience, genuflecting to an establishment they cannot see or speak to, a society that will never, ever welcome them as an equal, or allow them to take a full part in their affairs.
Forever outsiders.
In despair they go to extreme lengths to show their allegiance by denigrating their kinsmen and denying their country its sovereignty.
What an epilogue to chisel on your tombstone. "I f*ucked Scotland."
Wallace Wear The Right Trousers
Quite right LA.
Good points, Wallace.
You can be a first rate achiever in your vocation or field of expertise but until and unless those of influence in England recognise your worth - usually for their own profit - you will not be respected as anything but provincial.
The meek and timid bloggers you mention reek of craven subservience, genuflecting to an establishment they cannot see or speak to, a society that will never, ever welcome them as an equal, or allow them to take a full part in their affairs.
Forever outsiders.
In despair they go to extreme lengths to show their allegiance by denigrating their kinsmen and denying their country its sovereignty.
What an epilogue to chisel on your tombstone. "I f*ucked Scotland."
Posted by: rob4i, Scottish Borders on 5:49pm Wed 26 Mar 08
[quote][bold]Alex[/bold] wrote:
[quote][bold]TheGlaswegian[/bold] wrote: Hamish, 29% of Scots voted for parties that support the union at the last opportunity. The real figure for those in support of the union is likely to be much less given that not all of these voted for the union per se when they vote for labour - they simple vote for labour regarldess of their stance re the union. [/quote] Mr TheGlaswegian I pointed out in my reply to you above that, on a 51.7% turnout, 33% (approx 17% of all Scots voters) voted for parties which had independence in their Manifesto and 67% (approx 35% of all Scots voters) voted for parties which support the union. If a referendun is so sure to give AS the result he wants, why doesn't he call one? Whit's he feart o'?[/quote] Alex, the more you write, the more you show yourself up as an idiot.
The figures you quote were for a Scottish general election to see who the people wanted for their next Government, it was NOT a referendum on Independence, do you understand that? NO, obviously not.
Also Salmond would call for a referendum at any time, but would not get through parliament because the spineless Unionists undemocratically do NOT want the sovereign people of Scotland to have that say, NOW, do you understand?, NO, thought not !!!
Alex wrote:
TheGlaswegian wrote: Hamish, 29% of Scots voted for parties that support the union at the last opportunity. The real figure for those in support of the union is likely to be much less given that not all of these voted for the union per se when they vote for labour - they simple vote for labour regarldess of their stance re the union.
Mr TheGlaswegian I pointed out in my reply to you above that, on a 51.7% turnout, 33% (approx 17% of all Scots voters) voted for parties which had independence in their Manifesto and 67% (approx 35% of all Scots voters) voted for parties which support the union. If a referendun is so sure to give AS the result he wants, why doesn't he call one? Whit's he feart o'?
Alex, the more you write, the more you show yourself up as an idiot.
The figures you quote were for a Scottish general election to see who the people wanted for their next Government, it was NOT a referendum on Independence, do you understand that? NO, obviously not.
Also Salmond would call for a referendum at any time, but would not get through parliament because the spineless Unionists undemocratically do NOT want the sovereign people of Scotland to have that say, NOW, do you understand?, NO, thought not !!!
Posted by: Los Angeles, Edinburgh on 5:54pm Wed 26 Mar 08
Rob4i [quote]The figures you quote were for a Scottish general election to see who the people wanted for their next Government, it was NOT a referendum on Independence,[/quote] They all do that, lie and prevaricate.
Somehow or other, mysteriously though it was never advertised or discussd as something on the agenda, tucked into the tinest backswood election for Plockton post office tea lady, was a question on independence and yes - it received a resounding "No!"
By being overlooked.
Why do we bother to engage these louts if they cannot get their facts right, or plain lie?
Rob4i
The figures you quote were for a Scottish general election to see who the people wanted for their next Government, it was NOT a referendum on Independence,
They all do that, lie and prevaricate.
Somehow or other, mysteriously though it was never advertised or discussd as something on the agenda, tucked into the tinest backswood election for Plockton post office tea lady, was a question on independence and yes - it received a resounding "No!"
By being overlooked.
Why do we bother to engage these louts if they cannot get their facts right, or plain lie?