Huge rise in study of philosophy at school
It was once described as "a route of many roads leading from nowhere to nothing", yet the popularity of philosophy in Scottish schools has seen a dramatic upturn in the past five years. The number of pupils studying the subject of thought has risen by more than 41%.
According to official figures, there were just 755 pupils studying philosophy at Intermediate 2, Higher and Advanced Higher in 2003, but this year the figure rose to 1067.
The increase in numbers has been welcomed by those who believe philosophy should play a central role in what is taught in schools.
Jim Petherick, national convener of the Humanist Society Scotland, said the increase in pupils studying philosophy was "brilliant" and should be encouraged.
"Anything that teaches children about an awareness of their surroundings and their fellows has to be a first class idea," he said. "The basic ethical values that we try to instill in our children and grandchildren are completely contained in simple philosophical arguments. We hope this will spread."
However, the increasing popularity of the subject has created an unforeseen problem. Because there is currently no secondary teaching certificates for philosophy as a specialist subject, some schools are struggling to cope with the new found demand. The situation has prompted St Andrews University to offer a new online course for teachers involving elements of philosophy such as ethical issues, reasoning and knowledge, mind and reality.
The course has been designed by Dr Lisa Jones, a teaching fellow for the university's department of philosophy, after a request from a teacher at a local secondary school.
"Interest in the subject in this country is certainly growing. Philosophy teaches a range of transferable skills in critical and analytical thinking and we are finding a great deal of enthusiasm in both teachers and students," she said.
"We decided to develop the online course because we found that teachers were still very apprehensive about teaching the subject at Higher level.
"We were already engaging with teachers from all over the country and have not just the academic knowledge but the technology in place for online learning. By hosting the programme online, teachers working full-time all over the country can take part."
From early next year, teachers will be given the opportunity to study four modules at St Andrews. Learning entirely from internet-based resources, including online lectures and live events, subjects will include the study of a variety of thinkers from Descartes in the middle of the 17th century to Kant at the end of the 18th century.
Last year it emerged that teaching primary school children philosophy and the thinking skills of Socrates resulted in a lasting gain in intelligence.
Clackmannanshire Council in Central Scotland pioneered the teaching of philosophical enquiry in primary schools, when it introduced the subject in some of its most run-down areas six years ago.
An initial study carried out in 2003-04 showed that children aged five to 11 who were taught so-called "philosophical enquiry" showed intelligence gains of more than seven IQ points.
Another study showed that the gains were maintained years later, even in children who no longer had access to the programme.
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Posted by: I'm no really here on 12:15am Thu 27 Dec 07
You don't need Maths or Science to do it, there are no wrong answers so everyone passes, newspapers ask you for you opinion on something you know nothing about, and you get called an "expert".
Two words - "Dumb" and "Dumber".
You don't need Maths or Science to do it, there are no wrong answers so everyone passes, newspapers ask you for you opinion on something you know nothing about, and you get called an "expert".
Two words - "Dumb" and "Dumber".
Posted by: kant, Glasgow on 12:44am Thu 27 Dec 07
Actually Philosophy is a rigorous discipline which requires critical thinking, encourages original thought, and requires students to present logical arguments in an academic essay form. There is a strong link to maths and science in the history of philosophy.
To say there are no wrong answers just displays your obvious ignorance of the discipline.
Actually Philosophy is a rigorous discipline which requires critical thinking, encourages original thought, and requires students to present logical arguments in an academic essay form. There is a strong link to maths and science in the history of philosophy.
To say there are no wrong answers just displays your obvious ignorance of the discipline.
Posted by: Davie Hume on 2:06am Thu 27 Dec 07
All this philosophy undermines plain Scottish Common Sense in my opinion.
Take the health service, for example. Every right thinking Scot knows fine well that hospitals should be near to where you live. It means you can be rushed there quickly in an ambulance, and more importantly, people can visit you easily and bring bunches of grapes. It's philosophers with their fancy new ideas that propose concentrating hospitals far away just so the doctors can get more experience and do a better job. How will people be visited and brought bunches of grapes then?
Thank goodness the new Scottish Government talks plain old Scottish Common Sense.
All this philosophy undermines plain Scottish Common Sense in my opinion.
Take the health service, for example. Every right thinking Scot knows fine well that hospitals should be near to where you live. It means you can be rushed there quickly in an ambulance, and more importantly, people can visit you easily and bring bunches of grapes. It's philosophers with their fancy new ideas that propose concentrating hospitals far away just so the doctors can get more experience and do a better job. How will people be visited and brought bunches of grapes then?
Thank goodness the new Scottish Government talks plain old Scottish Common Sense.
Posted by: Yok Finney, Ross-shire on 4:01am Thu 27 Dec 07
There could be common sense in a kind of collective wisdom that used to be remembered in proverbs and things. And individual initiative rose from this wisdom and enhanced it.
When common sense comes from the television it could be almost worthless.
There could be common sense in a kind of collective wisdom that used to be remembered in proverbs and things. And individual initiative rose from this wisdom and enhanced it.
When common sense comes from the television it could be almost worthless.
Posted by: jonny bond, glasgow on 5:26am Thu 27 Dec 07
Common sense is the flip side of common anarchy or the crowd mentality where only the strongest survive or those who look least like witches. We are a long time away from that sad state in this country. So every country where the populace do not rise up in revolt and trash the place is a country where common sense is displayed by the people(except france where they do). In a country where a grotesque slaughter of innocents is taking place for those innocents to rise up is common sense. For other nations to intervene with force dressed up as humaitairian aid instead of whats needed peacekeepers is beyond reprehensible. Is that philosophical or what? Man i'm good my next degree will be in philosophy I hope they teach looking on the bright side as only the top percent of philosophers get a job in philosophy mainly as philosophy lecturers who dont get paid much.
Before all the yahoos get wide I know there is limited use for the way people think in all sorts of modern apllications but once you write the software who needs the philosopher.
Common sense is the flip side of common anarchy or the crowd mentality where only the strongest survive or those who look least like witches. We are a long time away from that sad state in this country. So every country where the populace do not rise up in revolt and trash the place is a country where common sense is displayed by the people(except france where they do). In a country where a grotesque slaughter of innocents is taking place for those innocents to rise up is common sense. For other nations to intervene with force dressed up as humaitairian aid instead of whats needed peacekeepers is beyond reprehensible. Is that philosophical or what? Man i'm good my next degree will be in philosophy I hope they teach looking on the bright side as only the top percent of philosophers get a job in philosophy mainly as philosophy lecturers who dont get paid much.
Before all the yahoos get wide I know there is limited use for the way people think in all sorts of modern apllications but once you write the software who needs the philosopher.
Posted by: Dougie Douglas, Brisbane on 5:32am Thu 27 Dec 07
[quote][bold]Davie Hume[/bold] wrote:
All this philosophy undermines plain Scottish Common Sense in my opinion.
Take the health service, for example. Every right thinking Scot knows fine well that hospitals should be near to where you live. It means you can be rushed there quickly in an ambulance, and more importantly, people can visit you easily and bring bunches of grapes. It's philosophers with their fancy new ideas that propose concentrating hospitals far away just so the doctors can get more experience and do a better job. How will people be visited and brought bunches of grapes then?
Thank goodness the new Scottish Government talks plain old Scottish Common Sense. [/quote] Plain old common and sense and philosophical enquiry are in no way at odds with each other.
The study of Philosophy can enhance a straight forward approach and give it depth.
To try to make a connection between health care management and philosophy is ridiculous and shows a lack of understanding of both disciplines.
The broad understanding of our world that philosophy gives is entirely in keeping with a broad and analytical Scottish education
Davie Hume wrote:
All this philosophy undermines plain Scottish Common Sense in my opinion.
Take the health service, for example. Every right thinking Scot knows fine well that hospitals should be near to where you live. It means you can be rushed there quickly in an ambulance, and more importantly, people can visit you easily and bring bunches of grapes. It's philosophers with their fancy new ideas that propose concentrating hospitals far away just so the doctors can get more experience and do a better job. How will people be visited and brought bunches of grapes then?
Thank goodness the new Scottish Government talks plain old Scottish Common Sense.
Plain old common and sense and philosophical enquiry are in no way at odds with each other.
The study of Philosophy can enhance a straight forward approach and give it depth.
To try to make a connection between health care management and philosophy is ridiculous and shows a lack of understanding of both disciplines.
The broad understanding of our world that philosophy gives is entirely in keeping with a broad and analytical Scottish education
Posted by: Dougie Douglas, Brisbane on 5:35am Thu 27 Dec 07
[quote][bold]I'm no really here[/bold] wrote:
You don't need Maths or Science to do it, there are no wrong answers so everyone passes, newspapers ask you for you opinion on something you know nothing about, and you get called an "expert".
Two words - "Dumb" and "Dumber".[/quote] What a fantastically apt moniker
I'm no really here wrote:
You don't need Maths or Science to do it, there are no wrong answers so everyone passes, newspapers ask you for you opinion on something you know nothing about, and you get called an "expert".
Two words - "Dumb" and "Dumber".
What a fantastically apt moniker
Posted by: passer by on 7:07am Thu 27 Dec 07
Excellent that philosophy is being taught in our schools and that this rigorous discipline is being studied by many pupils , as has been the case in most of europe for many years.
but
1 why ask some one from the Humanist society about this? why have they got more to say about this than anyone else, say the churches/
and
2 contrary to what their spokesman says studying philosophy has nothing to do with instructing someone in a ethical code.
Excellent that philosophy is being taught in our schools and that this rigorous discipline is being studied by many pupils , as has been the case in most of europe for many years.
but
1 why ask some one from the Humanist society about this? why have they got more to say about this than anyone else, say the churches/
and
2 contrary to what their spokesman says studying philosophy has nothing to do with instructing someone in a ethical code.
Posted by: pl, glasgow on 8:40am Thu 27 Dec 07
[quote]"The basic ethical values that we try to instill in our children and grandchildren are completely contained in simple philosophical arguments.[/quote]
Dream on . The Humanist Society are clearly a simplistic bunch. At least try to offer something of value when you open your mouth.
"The basic ethical values that we try to instill in our children and grandchildren are completely contained in simple philosophical arguments.
Dream on . The Humanist Society are clearly a simplistic bunch. At least try to offer something of value when you open your mouth.
Posted by: Quine, Aberdeen on 8:42am Thu 27 Dec 07
I sat my highers 3 years ago and philosophy was the hardest subject that I studied, but also the most interesting.
Nobody really enjoys classes in their higher year, but I always looked forward to the philosophy class.
I sat my highers 3 years ago and philosophy was the hardest subject that I studied, but also the most interesting.
Nobody really enjoys classes in their higher year, but I always looked forward to the philosophy class.
Posted by: kamiddler, Glasgow on 9:42am Thu 27 Dec 07
I say as long as they can read, write, spell and count and know when they can (their own time) and cannot (work time) contemplate their navels then no problem.
I say as long as they can read, write, spell and count and know when they can (their own time) and cannot (work time) contemplate their navels then no problem.
Posted by: Dave Scott, Compo ergo sum on 10:00am Thu 27 Dec 07
Shouldn't we just be grateful that our pupils will be encouraged to THINK rather than regurgitate, process or consume?
Shouldn't we just be grateful that our pupils will be encouraged to THINK rather than regurgitate, process or consume?
Posted by: Descartes, Paisley on 10:17am Thu 27 Dec 07
"Common Sense" from David Hume is not too clever. Common sense suggest that we build our hospitals beside the places that the grapes grow - IF taking grapes is the important thing.
"Common Sense" from David Hume is not too clever. Common sense suggest that we build our hospitals beside the places that the grapes grow - IF taking grapes is the important thing.
Posted by: Pete, Bearsden on 10:20am Thu 27 Dec 07
Must be the easiest option. Waste of time - what use is this worthless subject in today's world?
Must be the easiest option. Waste of time - what use is this worthless subject in today's world?
Posted by: wee folding bike on 10:28am Thu 27 Dec 07
Schools are under pressure to climb the league tables. Subjects which get lots of passes make the tables look better. So long as this is the yard stick by which a school is measured this will continue.
Schools are under pressure to climb the league tables. Subjects which get lots of passes make the tables look better. So long as this is the yard stick by which a school is measured this will continue.
Posted by: Eric, 923-504 on 10:41am Thu 27 Dec 07
The hard working taxpayer is footing the bill for this rubbish. We see the same at some universities eg media studies. Every brain dead student wants a qualification, even if the subject is useless.
The hard working taxpayer is footing the bill for this rubbish. We see the same at some universities eg media studies. Every brain dead student wants a qualification, even if the subject is useless.
Posted by: Bob, Clydebank on 10:53am Thu 27 Dec 07
People seem to think that "Philosophy" is a unitary and discrete whole. There are as many philosophies as there are philosophers. Platonism, Aristotelianism, Thomism, Cartesianism, Kantism, Empiricisim, Marxism, Existentalism, are all generally recognised as philosophies - that though is one of the few things they have in common. Its like wanting to teach religion without specifying whether its Islam, Christianity, Buddhism or Satanism that they'ce to teach.
People seem to think that "Philosophy" is a unitary and discrete whole. There are as many philosophies as there are philosophers. Platonism, Aristotelianism, Thomism, Cartesianism, Kantism, Empiricisim, Marxism, Existentalism, are all generally recognised as philosophies - that though is one of the few things they have in common. Its like wanting to teach religion without specifying whether its Islam, Christianity, Buddhism or Satanism that they'ce to teach.
Posted by: Edwin, BRIDGETON on 10:59am Thu 27 Dec 07
Who do the Humanists think they are?
"The basic ethical values that we try to instill in our children and grandchildren are completely contained in simple philosophical arguments. We hope this will spread"
This is just brainwashing. Its sad that in Scotland today there are still those who want to use education to re-enforce their own outdated value systems. Its bad enough having Catholic schools, now the Humanists seem to want to take over our non-denominational schools with their "ethics" and "values".
Who do the Humanists think they are?
"The basic ethical values that we try to instill in our children and grandchildren are completely contained in simple philosophical arguments. We hope this will spread"
This is just brainwashing. Its sad that in Scotland today there are still those who want to use education to re-enforce their own outdated value systems. Its bad enough having Catholic schools, now the Humanists seem to want to take over our non-denominational schools with their "ethics" and "values".
Posted by: James, Lanarkshire on 12:04pm Thu 27 Dec 07
If philosophy makes us less introspective and encourages us to think of the wider issues it cannt be bad!
If philosophy makes us less introspective and encourages us to think of the wider issues it cannt be bad!
Posted by: Graham, Glasgow on 1:39pm Thu 27 Dec 07
Mel Brooks described a philospher as being a Bullshit Artiste. Who is right! Maybe we need a philosopher to explain! In any case the Executive are throwing money at the lame and lazy. So why not waste it on Bull.[bold]bold[/bold]
Mel Brooks described a philospher as being a Bullshit Artiste. Who is right! Maybe we need a philosopher to explain! In any case the Executive are throwing money at the lame and lazy. So why not waste it on Bull.
Posted by: JAMES MC LAUGHLIN, EAST END GLASGOW on 2:52pm Thu 27 Dec 07
TOO OPEN MY NEWS PAPER AND READ "HUGE RISE IN STUDY OF PHILOSOPHY AT SCHOOL". IS WONDERFUL NEWS . WELL DONE DR LISA JONES OF ST ANDREWS.
EST PROFECTO ANIMI MEDICINA PHILOSOPHIA.
TOO OPEN MY NEWS PAPER AND READ "HUGE RISE IN STUDY OF PHILOSOPHY AT SCHOOL". IS WONDERFUL NEWS . WELL DONE DR LISA JONES OF ST ANDREWS.
EST PROFECTO ANIMI MEDICINA PHILOSOPHIA.
Posted by: Owen, The West End on 3:46pm Thu 27 Dec 07
If we're onto Latin tags about philosophy how about:
[italic]Philosophia est ancilla Theologiae (sc. Ecclesiae Catholicae)[/italic]
or
[italic]fides et ratio[/italic]
If we're onto Latin tags about philosophy how about:
Philosophia est ancilla Theologiae (sc. Ecclesiae Catholicae)
or
fides et ratio
Posted by: jonny bond, glasgow on 5:39pm Thu 27 Dec 07
[quote][bold]wee folding bike[/bold] wrote:
Schools are under pressure to climb the league tables. Subjects which get lots of passes make the tables look better. So long as this is the yard stick by which a school is measured this will continue.[/quote] I have looked at the new schools sylabus and the classes that the previous are refering to have a clear role in modern soceity.
Class 1 filling out a standerd form.
Class 2 recognising media bull.
Class 3 being multicultural.
Class 1 is being mooted because a surprising number of young school leavers are unable to make their way through the modern giro form and are clogging up staff time asking what the question means.
Class 2 is being set up because it has been noticed by labour that not all papers were created equal. A new science has developed in modern times called deriving some truth from the layers of lies in the press.
Class 3 we are all going to have to learn how every person who lives in the country worships their gods so we will not give offence to anyone ever. except rastafarians who are just stoners really and folk with radical religous views like death cultists.
wee folding bike wrote:
Schools are under pressure to climb the league tables. Subjects which get lots of passes make the tables look better. So long as this is the yard stick by which a school is measured this will continue.
I have looked at the new schools sylabus and the classes that the previous are refering to have a clear role in modern soceity.
Class 1 filling out a standerd form.
Class 2 recognising media bull.
Class 3 being multicultural.
Class 1 is being mooted because a surprising number of young school leavers are unable to make their way through the modern giro form and are clogging up staff time asking what the question means.
Class 2 is being set up because it has been noticed by labour that not all papers were created equal. A new science has developed in modern times called deriving some truth from the layers of lies in the press.
Class 3 we are all going to have to learn how every person who lives in the country worships their gods so we will not give offence to anyone ever. except rastafarians who are just stoners really and folk with radical religous views like death cultists.
Posted by: jonny bond, glasgow on 5:56pm Thu 27 Dec 07
How do you suggest rastafarisim as a class it would be the most oversubscribed college class ever in my humble opinion. Folk would want to do a masters in rastafrisim.
How do you suggest rastafarisim as a class it would be the most oversubscribed college class ever in my humble opinion. Folk would want to do a masters in rastafrisim.
Posted by: Yok Finney, Ross-shire on 8:06pm Thu 27 Dec 07
Philosophers have shied away from the 20th century world of engineering and technology. Philosophy retreated to a dismal backwater - as far as it was taught at all in universities.
That youngsters are taking up this study has to be good news.
Philosophers have shied away from the 20th century world of engineering and technology. Philosophy retreated to a dismal backwater - as far as it was taught at all in universities.
That youngsters are taking up this study has to be good news.
Posted by: W Smith on 9:18pm Thu 27 Dec 07
Great news, eh?
Our kids lack numeracy and we're supposed to feel better that Scottish kids are taking more interest in 'philosophy'.
Any new oil fields discovered in the West Atlantic and the oil companies will be looking for philosophy graduates then?
How many of our 'gifted' MSPs and MPs have deliberately chosen degrees that don't involve numeracy (eg Philosophy, Art, Psychology, Sociology, History, English)? Yet they want to run the economy.
Great thing this philosophy --no right or wrong answers so your always right by default!
Brilliant - in a kind of loony sort of way.
Great news, eh?
Our kids lack numeracy and we're supposed to feel better that Scottish kids are taking more interest in 'philosophy'.
Any new oil fields discovered in the West Atlantic and the oil companies will be looking for philosophy graduates then?
How many of our 'gifted' MSPs and MPs have deliberately chosen degrees that don't involve numeracy (eg Philosophy, Art, Psychology, Sociology, History, English)? Yet they want to run the economy.
Great thing this philosophy --no right or wrong answers so your always right by default!
Brilliant - in a kind of loony sort of way.
Posted by: maragdubh, lewis on 10:39pm Thu 27 Dec 07
[quote][bold]Descartes[/bold] wrote:
"Common Sense" from David Hume is not too clever. Common sense suggest that we build our hospitals beside the places that the grapes grow - IF taking grapes is the important thing.[/quote] definately from paisley.
Descartes wrote:
"Common Sense" from David Hume is not too clever. Common sense suggest that we build our hospitals beside the places that the grapes grow - IF taking grapes is the important thing.
definately from paisley.
Posted by: realist cause, planet earth on 8:56pm Fri 28 Dec 07
By all means encourage kids to think for themselves, just as long as they learn something useful as well.
By all means encourage kids to think for themselves, just as long as they learn something useful as well.
Posted by: Dustin, Ann Arbor on 10:32pm Sat 5 Jan 08
[quote]Great thing this philosophy --no right or wrong answers so your always right by default![/quote]
"Nothing is right... so everything is right!" [bold]Wow[/bold] . Let me suggest one of the subdisciplines of philosophy: logic.
Great thing this philosophy --no right or wrong answers so your always right by default!
"Nothing is right... so everything is right!"
Wow . Let me suggest one of the subdisciplines of philosophy: logic.
Posted by: Nick, London on 8:21pm Fri 11 Jan 08
Modern analytic philosophy requires a firm grasp of literacy, numeracy and logical reasoning. It is coextensive with scientific enquiry and relies heavily on formal logic. To suggest that anything goes, or that there are no right or wrong answers is to misunderstand the subject. It is very very hard indeed. Any A-level student who studies it and is any good at it has achieved something very impressive.
Modern analytic philosophy requires a firm grasp of literacy, numeracy and logical reasoning. It is coextensive with scientific enquiry and relies heavily on formal logic. To suggest that anything goes, or that there are no right or wrong answers is to misunderstand the subject. It is very very hard indeed. Any A-level student who studies it and is any good at it has achieved something very impressive.
Posted by: Lisa Jones, St Andrews on 3:28pm Wed 23 Jan 08
It seems clear that those who express the strongest views here about philosophy being a 'waste of time' are the people who least understand what philosophy actually is. Thankfully, some other, better-informed posters have tried to put them right. It is quite ironic that the nay-sayers are those who could most benefit from some philosophical training, judging by the spurious conclusions they draw from dodgy premises.
Also, for those who don't see what use philosophy can be for an individual's education/career, you might be interested to know that philosophy graduates are in growing demand from employers, in fields such as business and finance, law, managment consultancy, to name a few. (See online article "I think therefore I earn", Education Guardian, 20.11.07). The qualities philosophers possess that employers find particularly appealing include: ability to provide clear and innovative thinking; to be analytical; to question assumptions; to look for alternative approaches and take an open mind to issues.
These are the critical skills one develops in philosophical training, and are exactly the skills we should encourage in our school pupils.
It seems clear that those who express the strongest views here about philosophy being a 'waste of time' are the people who least understand what philosophy actually is. Thankfully, some other, better-informed posters have tried to put them right. It is quite ironic that the nay-sayers are those who could most benefit from some philosophical training, judging by the spurious conclusions they draw from dodgy premises.
Also, for those who don't see what use philosophy can be for an individual's education/career, you might be interested to know that philosophy graduates are in growing demand from employers, in fields such as business and finance, law, managment consultancy, to name a few. (See online article "I think therefore I earn", Education Guardian, 20.11.07). The qualities philosophers possess that employers find particularly appealing include: ability to provide clear and innovative thinking; to be analytical; to question assumptions; to look for alternative approaches and take an open mind to issues.
These are the critical skills one develops in philosophical training, and are exactly the skills we should encourage in our school pupils.
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