TRUMP: Scottish government intervenes in £1bn golf resort row
The Scottish Government has intervened and called in Donald Trump's application for a £1 billion golf resort after it was rejected by local planners.
The property tycoon's plans were controversially knocked back last week by an Aberdeenshire Council committee.
A statement from the Scottish Government said: "Ministers recognise that the application raises issues of importance that require consideration at a national level.
"Calling the application in allows ministers the opportunity to give full scrutiny to all aspects of this proposal before reaching a final decision."
The move comes as Trump's lawyers revealed they were now considering moving the plans to Northern Ireland.
Northern Ireland's First Minister Ian Paisley was tonight making contact with Mr Trump about the possibility of him relocating plans for the resort to the province.
Officials from Mr Paisley's and Deputy First Minister Martin McGuinness's department were in touch with Mr Trump during a visit to New York about the possibility of relocating the project to Co Antrim.
As he attended a reception in the New York Athletic Club off Central Park, Mr Paisley confirmed that the Stormont power-sharing executive was keep to talk to the businessman.
"We have put the calls out that we are willing to talk to him," the Democratic Unionist leader confirmed.
| Mr Trump has been told and he is very impressed with the ministers | | Neil Hobday |
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"Of course we welcome any one who wants to invest in Northern Ireland and who has an interest, in creating jobs, making money and developing our tourist industry."
However, Mr Trump was tonight said to be "very impressed" with the move by the Scottish government.
Neil Hobday, his project manager in Scotland, said: "Mr Trump has been told and he is very impressed with the ministers.
"We obviously welcome this decision, it is a very good and brave decision.
"It is of national importance and reflects the outcry after last week's appalling decision by the council committee."
A Scottish government spokesman said tonight: "My understanding is for it to be called in at this stage is unprecedented."
It is also likely that finance secretary John Swinney will ultimately take the final decision on the development.
The council's infrastructure services committee voted to reject the proposals last Thursday.
Committee chairman Martin Ford had the casting vote after a 7-7 deadlock but voted against the development.
Mr Trump said he would not be appealing against the decision and was instead considering Northern Ireland as an alternative.
Meanwhile, two petitions for and against the Trump development have been posted on the Downing Street website.
Today there were 7,389 signatures in favour of the scheme and 2,011 calling for the project to be abandoned.
Proposals for the resort on the Menie Estate near Balmedie, which included two championship golf courses and a five-star hotel, were thrown out by the council's infrastructure services committee last week.
Aberdeenshire Council leader Anne Robertson welcomed the decision.
She said: "What is important in all this is securing the economic future of the north-east of Scotland.
"The Scottish Government quite rightly feels this application raises issues of such importance that they require scrutiny at a national level.
"If the decision of ministers to call this application in keeps it alive, then we welcome this intervention."
Alex Johnstone, Conservative MSP for North East Scotland, said: "This is absolutely the right decision and I can only hope it is not too late. Last week's decision was, quite simply, the wrong one and does not reflect public opinion. I am delighted by tonight's developments."
Nanette Milne, Conservative MSP for North East Scotland, said: "This issue is of enormous importance, to the economy not only of the North East but of Scotland as a whole. Given this magnitude, it is right that it should be decided nationally by ministers, and not by a council committee comprising 14 members."
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Posted by: Neil 9% Growth, glasgow on 7:05pm Tue 4 Dec 07
[quote]"What is important in all this is securing the economic future of the north-east of Scotland[/quote] .
Clearly the economic future of the North East is not a consideration for these Luddites, mainly but not all, of a LibDim persuasion. Nor indeed for the rest of Scotland since most tourists attracted here will, well do a bit of tourin)
"What is important in all this is securing the economic future of the north-east of Scotland
.
Clearly the economic future of the North East is not a consideration for these Luddites, mainly but not all, of a LibDim persuasion. Nor indeed for the rest of Scotland since most tourists attracted here will, well do a bit of tourin)
Posted by: Displaced Glaswegian, Lanarkshire on 7:06pm Tue 4 Dec 07
If the Scottish Government overrule the decision to reject Trump's proposal it will be an unprecedented outrage. It has beens said repeatedly on postings and in letters that this proposal ought to have been rejected at the very first stage of the planning process.
Donald Trump will not be able to give anything approaching assurances let alone a guarantee on the golf courses, the numbers of visitors or the number/ nature of jobs he claims will be created.
If only a full and proper assessment on risk criteria will staisfy doubters and supporters, so be it - but John Swinney must not be rushed into meeting Trump's so-called deadline. It is not his deadline, it is his funders deadline and we should know exactly why this has been imposed on Trump.
If the Scottish Government overrule the decision to reject Trump's proposal it will be an unprecedented outrage. It has beens said repeatedly on postings and in letters that this proposal ought to have been rejected at the very first stage of the planning process.
Donald Trump will not be able to give anything approaching assurances let alone a guarantee on the golf courses, the numbers of visitors or the number/ nature of jobs he claims will be created.
If only a full and proper assessment on risk criteria will staisfy doubters and supporters, so be it - but John Swinney must not be rushed into meeting Trump's so-called deadline. It is not his deadline, it is his funders deadline and we should know exactly why this has been imposed on Trump.
Posted by: Displaced Glaswegian, Lanarkshire on 7:09pm Tue 4 Dec 07
[quote][bold]Neil 9% Growth[/bold] wrote:
[quote]"What is important in all this is securing the economic future of the north-east of Scotland[/quote] . Clearly the economic future of the North East is not a consideration for these Luddites, mainly but not all, of a LibDim persuasion. Nor indeed for the rest of Scotland since most tourists attracted here will, well do a bit of tourin) [/quote] Oh, get lost or make some kind of substantive contribution instead of trite comments you disgraced ex-Liberal Democrat with a huge chip on both shoulders!
Neil 9% Growth wrote:
"What is important in all this is securing the economic future of the north-east of Scotland
. Clearly the economic future of the North East is not a consideration for these Luddites, mainly but not all, of a LibDim persuasion. Nor indeed for the rest of Scotland since most tourists attracted here will, well do a bit of tourin)
Oh, get lost or make some kind of substantive contribution instead of trite comments you disgraced ex-Liberal Democrat with a huge chip on both shoulders!
Posted by: Richard Taylor, Aberdeen on 7:14pm Tue 4 Dec 07
DISPACED...GLASWEGIA
N...LANARKSHIRE...& your connection with the NE is..................
....................
..?
You views don't count.
GREAT NEWS, & THE RIGHT DECISION BY THE GOVT. Scotland needs to be seen to be ready to do business. We simply can't afford to turn this away.
DISPACED...GLASWEGIA
N...LANARKSHIRE...& your connection with the NE is..................
....................
..?
You views don't count.
GREAT NEWS, & THE RIGHT DECISION BY THE GOVT. Scotland needs to be seen to be ready to do business. We simply can't afford to turn this away.
Posted by: Lomax the travelling man, Running fae the ex-wife's lawyers on 7:20pm Tue 4 Dec 07
Ah well money talks. Mebbe I should speak wi a yankee accent and that might open doors for me
Ah well money talks. Mebbe I should speak wi a yankee accent and that might open doors for me
Posted by: Los Angeles, Edinburgh on 7:34pm Tue 4 Dec 07
Considering it's Salmond's territory, and how the project has been publicised, last minute scrutiny was always on the cards.
It will be the measure of Swinney if he sees merit in it and proves it guarantees benefits flow to the area and Scotland against loss of amenity, or if he sees so much uncertainty in it he let's it go.
As for overturning the planning decisions of elected councils after due debate by all involved, government has been doing that for years.
Considering it's Salmond's territory, and how the project has been publicised, last minute scrutiny was always on the cards.
It will be the measure of Swinney if he sees merit in it and proves it guarantees benefits flow to the area and Scotland against loss of amenity, or if he sees so much uncertainty in it he let's it go.
As for overturning the planning decisions of elected councils after due debate by all involved, government has been doing that for years.
Posted by: Iain - Aberdeen, Aberdeen on 7:38pm Tue 4 Dec 07
>>Richard Taylor..
Here's another displaced Glaswegian who's only lived in Aberdeen for 30 years - AND MY VIEWS LIKE EVERYBODY ELSE'S ... COUNT
We can afford to, and indeed should turn this money-worshipper away.
We most certainly do NOT need to destroy our any more of our environment for a number of temporary jobs of dubious worth. This development will not result in any significant lasting benefit to Scotland or the NEast.
GO HOME TRUMP - AND STAY THERE.
>>Richard Taylor..
Here's another displaced Glaswegian who's only lived in Aberdeen for 30 years - AND MY VIEWS LIKE EVERYBODY ELSE'S ... COUNT
We can afford to, and indeed should turn this money-worshipper away.
We most certainly do NOT need to destroy our any more of our environment for a number of temporary jobs of dubious worth. This development will not result in any significant lasting benefit to Scotland or the NEast.
GO HOME TRUMP - AND STAY THERE.
Posted by: graeme, I remember the fourth on 7:51pm Tue 4 Dec 07
OMG, Trump already owns the plot!
Check his website and video clip:
[bold]TRUMP INTERNATIONAL GOLF LINKS SCOTLAND[/bold]
It's there!
This is what he owns,
Trump National Golf Club in Winchester, New York
Trump National Golf Club in Bedminster, New Jersey
Trump National Golf Club in Palm Beach County, Florida
Trump National Golf Club in the island of Canouan in the Grenadines.
OMG, Trump already owns the plot!
Check his website and video clip:
TRUMP INTERNATIONAL GOLF LINKS SCOTLAND
It's there!
This is what he owns,
Trump National Golf Club in Winchester, New York
Trump National Golf Club in Bedminster, New Jersey
Trump National Golf Club in Palm Beach County, Florida
Trump National Golf Club in the island of Canouan in the Grenadines.
Posted by: kettlesandpots, glasgow on 7:53pm Tue 4 Dec 07
I don't know an awful lot about that area so possibly my view doesn't count however judging by local reaction, as reported on the news, the ordinary people of Aberdeen and the business community did not like the decision made by the Planning Committee. The fact that the Chairman of the Committee used his casting vote to reject the idea surely proves that the fors and againsts were absolutely neck and neck. So it is probably a good thing that the application has been called in to be assessed. A previous post correctly points out that the calling in of applications is not uncommon. We shall just have to wait and see how this one goes.
I don't know an awful lot about that area so possibly my view doesn't count however judging by local reaction, as reported on the news, the ordinary people of Aberdeen and the business community did not like the decision made by the Planning Committee. The fact that the Chairman of the Committee used his casting vote to reject the idea surely proves that the fors and againsts were absolutely neck and neck. So it is probably a good thing that the application has been called in to be assessed. A previous post correctly points out that the calling in of applications is not uncommon. We shall just have to wait and see how this one goes.
Posted by: lang sandy, weel up the howe on 7:59pm Tue 4 Dec 07
The snp came into power on a positive ticket with a "Scotland can do" message.I think messrs salmond and swinney etc will have listened to the business community in the north east and local oppinion.If they can persuade trumpy to build a few affordable homes and ensure that local firms are used in the development they will score good points in aberdeenshire,where i have to say the level of local government (mainly tory or lib dem) is absolutely pathetic.
The snp came into power on a positive ticket with a "Scotland can do" message.I think messrs salmond and swinney etc will have listened to the business community in the north east and local oppinion.If they can persuade trumpy to build a few affordable homes and ensure that local firms are used in the development they will score good points in aberdeenshire,where i have to say the level of local government (mainly tory or lib dem) is absolutely pathetic.
Posted by: Tom Clark, Glasgow on 8:01pm Tue 4 Dec 07
Unscramble this well known phrase; "Turn the white whole elephant thing out will to be a" It's already an abomination!!
Unscramble this well known phrase; "Turn the white whole elephant thing out will to be a" It's already an abomination!!
Posted by: mulross, Glasgow on 8:04pm Tue 4 Dec 07
Ricahrd Taylor - I am another Glaswegian and my views [bold]do[/bold] count. In the first place, I am Scottish, and Balmedie [bold]is[/bold] in Scotland? Secondly, If this goes ahead then (apart from being an outrage) it will set a precedent affecting every part of Scotland. i.e. planning procedures count for nothing as long as the developer has got enough money.
Ricahrd Taylor - I am another Glaswegian and my views
do count. In the first place, I am Scottish, and Balmedie
is in Scotland? Secondly, If this goes ahead then (apart from being an outrage) it will set a precedent affecting every part of Scotland. i.e. planning procedures count for nothing as long as the developer has got enough money.
Posted by: Chris WAK, West Aberdeenshire on 8:09pm Tue 4 Dec 07
This is what happens when Liberal Democrats attempt to run a Council. The Liberal Democrats Councillors voted the project down 4 to 1, the Liberal Councillor Martin Ford had the final say and said no while the leader of Aberdeenshire Council, another Liberal was telling Trump and the people of the North East that the development will still go ahead. She has know admitted that she made herself powerless to do what the people and her own party wanted her to do. This is total incompetence. Anne Robertson, the leader of the Council should resign, Martin Ford the other Liberal Democrat Councillor should be thrown out of a party that got him elected and another party should step in to run Aberdeenshire Council.
I just hope the Scottish government can undo what a useless Liberal ran council did.
This is what happens when Liberal Democrats attempt to run a Council. The Liberal Democrats Councillors voted the project down 4 to 1, the Liberal Councillor Martin Ford had the final say and said no while the leader of Aberdeenshire Council, another Liberal was telling Trump and the people of the North East that the development will still go ahead. She has know admitted that she made herself powerless to do what the people and her own party wanted her to do. This is total incompetence. Anne Robertson, the leader of the Council should resign, Martin Ford the other Liberal Democrat Councillor should be thrown out of a party that got him elected and another party should step in to run Aberdeenshire Council.
I just hope the Scottish government can undo what a useless Liberal ran council did.
Posted by: Alastair, Aberdeen on 8:52pm Tue 4 Dec 07
This is based on what can only be described as fraudulent claims regarding employment and economic benefits, and it completely ignores the disastrous environmental consequences. The fact that it even got looked at in the first place is only because all due process went by the by from DAY 1! You have to ask yourself what on earth the planning procedures are for, the environmental policies and all the other frameworks are (a list as long as my arm) that this project rides roughshod over, if it is cast aside as soon as some wide-boy comes along, who claims to want to do something wonderful in honour of his mother's homeland. Funny then why he is threatening to up and off at the first sign of delay, not even entertain alterations to the plans, nothing! Some commitment to honour the memory of "mama" that, eh? Does this guy really think we came up the Clyde in a banana boat? One minute he is calling the guy who won't sell his land for everything under the sun, the next minute he is buttering him up, saying he hopes they can come to some agreement, "coz actually I like the guy!" Donald you are so fake and so predictable! This guy must think we are all stupid (and some of the business community in Aberdeen, in grovelling at his feet with a [italic]carte blanche[/italic] are, I suppose).
Just what are the economic gains, in terms of sustainable employment? None of the supporters of this development have been able to come up with any alternatives to the charge of "temporary short term seasonal contractual employment". In other words, the claims of long term sustainable economic growth are fraudulent.
Just why is Trump in such a tizzy now? He seems desperate to tie this up anywhere, as long as he is digging the turf by 1st January. Strange isn't it? Given he had set his heart on this site, to honour the memory of his mother. Pretty fleeting commitment if you ask me! But wait a minute, he needs the money from the housing development to finance the golf resort. Does that not sound suspicious, especially from somebody who has been declared bankrupt not once but [italic]twice[/italic], most recently as 2004!
Just why has all due process been abandoned at every single stage of this process? Given that it contravenes so many areas of local and national policy it should never have seen the light of day, but even allowing for that, at every stage, we have witnessed due process and appropriate boundaries being cast aside shamelessly as both councillors and the former FM have demonstrated they were hopelessly out of their depth, mesmerised by big money.
Until these three questions "what exactly are the economic gains?"; "why the rush now?"; and "why the abandonment of due process?" can be answered, the only place for this whole proposal is the shredder.
This is based on what can only be described as fraudulent claims regarding employment and economic benefits, and it completely ignores the disastrous environmental consequences. The fact that it even got looked at in the first place is only because all due process went by the by from DAY 1! You have to ask yourself what on earth the planning procedures are for, the environmental policies and all the other frameworks are (a list as long as my arm) that this project rides roughshod over, if it is cast aside as soon as some wide-boy comes along, who claims to want to do something wonderful in honour of his mother's homeland. Funny then why he is threatening to up and off at the first sign of delay, not even entertain alterations to the plans, nothing! Some commitment to honour the memory of "mama" that, eh? Does this guy really think we came up the Clyde in a banana boat? One minute he is calling the guy who won't sell his land for everything under the sun, the next minute he is buttering him up, saying he hopes they can come to some agreement, "coz actually I like the guy!" Donald you are so fake and so predictable! This guy must think we are all stupid (and some of the business community in Aberdeen, in grovelling at his feet with a
carte blanche are, I suppose).
Just what are the economic gains, in terms of sustainable employment? None of the supporters of this development have been able to come up with any alternatives to the charge of "temporary short term seasonal contractual employment". In other words, the claims of long term sustainable economic growth are fraudulent.
Just why is Trump in such a tizzy now? He seems desperate to tie this up anywhere, as long as he is digging the turf by 1st January. Strange isn't it? Given he had set his heart on this site, to honour the memory of his mother. Pretty fleeting commitment if you ask me! But wait a minute, he needs the money from the housing development to finance the golf resort. Does that not sound suspicious, especially from somebody who has been declared bankrupt not once but
twice, most recently as 2004!
Just why has all due process been abandoned at every single stage of this process? Given that it contravenes so many areas of local and national policy it should never have seen the light of day, but even allowing for that, at every stage, we have witnessed due process and appropriate boundaries being cast aside shamelessly as both councillors and the former FM have demonstrated they were hopelessly out of their depth, mesmerised by big money.
Until these three questions "what exactly are the economic gains?"; "why the rush now?"; and "why the abandonment of due process?" can be answered, the only place for this whole proposal is the shredder.
Posted by: Displaced Glaswegian, Lanarkshire on 9:03pm Tue 4 Dec 07
[quote][bold]Richard Taylor[/bold] wrote:
DISPACED...GLASWEGIA N...LANARKSHIRE...& your connection with the NE is.................. .................... ..? You views don't count. GREAT NEWS, & THE RIGHT DECISION BY THE GOVT. Scotland needs to be seen to be ready to do business. We simply can't afford to turn this away. [/quote] Oh, yes we can afford to turn it down.
It is one thing to be ready to do business and other to be turned over by sharp practice. You need to broaden your oultlook and not be so parochial Mr Taylor.
Richard Taylor wrote:
DISPACED...GLASWEGIA N...LANARKSHIRE...& your connection with the NE is.................. .................... ..? You views don't count. GREAT NEWS, & THE RIGHT DECISION BY THE GOVT. Scotland needs to be seen to be ready to do business. We simply can't afford to turn this away.
Oh, yes we can afford to turn it down.
It is one thing to be ready to do business and other to be turned over by sharp practice. You need to broaden your oultlook and not be so parochial Mr Taylor.
Posted by: Los Angeles, Edinburgh on 9:11pm Tue 4 Dec 07
Alastair Wonders If Democracy Is Flawed[quote]You have to ask yourself what on earth the planning procedures are for[/quote] Our government - "It takes all sorts" is a good slogan - is ensuring Aberdeenshire Council is not Stoneybridge Council, and they - our shiny new government - appears anything other than dynamic and pragmatic.
Testing the blazing intellect of Wendy Alexander loses its entertainment value after a time.
Alastair Wonders If Democracy Is Flawed
You have to ask yourself what on earth the planning procedures are for
Our government - "It takes all sorts" is a good slogan - is ensuring Aberdeenshire Council is not Stoneybridge Council, and they - our shiny new government - appears anything other than dynamic and pragmatic.
Testing the blazing intellect of Wendy Alexander loses its entertainment value after a time.
Posted by: gimping, gimping for Trump on 9:17pm Tue 4 Dec 07
The curse of the Scottish Parlaiment continues. If Salmond and the MSP's give priority to a tacky golf course for the beneift of rich travelling child rapers and gimps then the goverment can look forward to the awkward squad giving them a spanking with a claw hammer. To ursurp and over ride local democracy in action is Stalinist.
The curse of the Scottish Parlaiment continues. If Salmond and the MSP's give priority to a tacky golf course for the beneift of rich travelling child rapers and gimps then the goverment can look forward to the awkward squad giving them a spanking with a claw hammer. To ursurp and over ride local democracy in action is Stalinist.
Posted by: Richard Taylor, Aberdeen on 9:26pm Tue 4 Dec 07
To my central belt friends:
Don't recall such a furore when a golf course was built at Loch Lomond. Certainly can't recall people in the NE coming out against it.
And what did the camera pan on during the Scottish Open, apart form the gowf?
Buzzard, osprey...BIRDS...WIL
DLIFE!!!!!! Quel surprise.
To my central belt friends:
Don't recall such a furore when a golf course was built at Loch Lomond. Certainly can't recall people in the NE coming out against it.
And what did the camera pan on during the Scottish Open, apart form the gowf?
Buzzard, osprey...BIRDS...WIL
DLIFE!!!!!! Quel surprise.
Posted by: Woody, Glasgow on 9:29pm Tue 4 Dec 07
All in all a sad reflection of our ambitions for Scotland. Selling our land to a foreign housing developer, lets not kid ourselves that this is about golf and tourism and the inclusion in the plans for a turf research institute is frankly patronising! What do we want to be perceived as and aspire to as a nation? World Class or World Crass?!
All in all a sad reflection of our ambitions for Scotland. Selling our land to a foreign housing developer, lets not kid ourselves that this is about golf and tourism and the inclusion in the plans for a turf research institute is frankly patronising! What do we want to be perceived as and aspire to as a nation? World Class or World Crass?!
Posted by: Los Angeles, Edinburgh on 9:45pm Tue 4 Dec 07
Taylor Says, "Watch For The Birdy"[quote]And what did the camera pan on during the Scottish Open, apart form the gowf? Buzzard, osprey...wildlife. Quel surprise.[/quote] Some sonovabitch shot a white headed eagle the other day.
Taylor Says, "Watch For The Birdy"
And what did the camera pan on during the Scottish Open, apart form the gowf? Buzzard, osprey...wildlife. Quel surprise.
Some sonovabitch shot a white headed eagle the other day.
Posted by: Woody, Glasgow on 9:50pm Tue 4 Dec 07
Might be worth pointing out that the golf course built at Loch Lomond (Loch Lomond GC) is owned by an American of some pedigree who is most evidently sensitive to the environment, the golf course was designed by one of the worlds leading architects, it is arguably one of the most exclusive and beautiful golf courses in the world where each year contributes more to selling Scotland as the home of golf and as a tourist destination than any other annual event on these shores. It is truly World Class...ask the Pro's! Oh and I count only 2 wee (very exclusive) holiday cottages near the course that you have to look very hard to find. This is the Scotland we should be aspiring to, not condo resort-tastic crazy golf in the North East. You are welcome to it!
Might be worth pointing out that the golf course built at Loch Lomond (Loch Lomond GC) is owned by an American of some pedigree who is most evidently sensitive to the environment, the golf course was designed by one of the worlds leading architects, it is arguably one of the most exclusive and beautiful golf courses in the world where each year contributes more to selling Scotland as the home of golf and as a tourist destination than any other annual event on these shores. It is truly World Class...ask the Pro's! Oh and I count only 2 wee (very exclusive) holiday cottages near the course that you have to look very hard to find. This is the Scotland we should be aspiring to, not condo resort-tastic crazy golf in the North East. You are welcome to it!
Posted by: Tartan Tory, Glasgow on 9:53pm Tue 4 Dec 07
Of course the Scottish "govenmment" would call it in - no coincidence that its in Wee Eck country ?
Of course the Scottish "govenmment" would call it in - no coincidence that its in Wee Eck country ?
Posted by: scotleag on 9:55pm Tue 4 Dec 07
This has the potential of a [bold]GENUINE[/bold] scandal,far outweighing the faux outrage of the SNP this past week.
First question must be which ministers took the decision to call this in? The statement only refers to "ministers." Was Alex Salmond involved? Has he abused his position by intervening on a constituency matter? Difficult to see this decision being taken[bold] WITHOUT[/bold] his knowledge.
The insomniac obsessive LA gives it away -[italic] "Considering it's Salmond's territory, and how the project has been publicised, last minute scrutiny was always on the cards."[/italic]
In other words this 'unprecedented' decision has been taken solely because of A. Salmond. No other MSP would be able to do this.
Though [bold]L[/bold] aughable [bold]A[/bold] ss's other assertion can be easily ignored: [italic]" It will be the measure of Swinney if he sees merit in it."[/italic]
No, it will demonstrate Swinney's inability to say no to Salmond if he approves it just as Salmond has already shown his inability to say no to Trump.
Listen to Trump's spokesman: "Mr Trump has been told and he is very impressed with the ministers"
[bold]GOOD doggies[/bold]
The future of local government must be called into question. Already the SNP plan to introduce a "local" income tax, set, collected and distributed centrally. Now even planning issues are beyond the remit of local authorities where they conflict with what Alex Salmond - or should that be Alex Stalin - wants.
Remember, it is not permissible to consider party political matters when considering planning issues. The planning gain or otherwise is all that is allowed to be considered.
To use a phrase the SNP are keen on, Salmond MUST KNOW this yet he is prepared to break the law. You'll all be demanding his resignation now I suppose?
What a supine position for any so-called government to take. Trump says he won't appeal so Salmond does it for him.
Welcome to the new Scotland - theme park for the mega rich. Managing Director - A Salmond
Proprietors - B Souter & D Trump
This has the potential of a
GENUINE scandal,far outweighing the faux outrage of the SNP this past week.
First question must be which ministers took the decision to call this in? The statement only refers to "ministers." Was Alex Salmond involved? Has he abused his position by intervening on a constituency matter? Difficult to see this decision being taken
WITHOUT his knowledge.
The insomniac obsessive LA gives it away -
"Considering it's Salmond's territory, and how the project has been publicised, last minute scrutiny was always on the cards."
In other words this 'unprecedented' decision has been taken solely because of A. Salmond. No other MSP would be able to do this.
Though
L aughable
A ss's other assertion can be easily ignored:
" It will be the measure of Swinney if he sees merit in it."
No, it will demonstrate Swinney's inability to say no to Salmond if he approves it just as Salmond has already shown his inability to say no to Trump.
Listen to Trump's spokesman: "Mr Trump has been told and he is very impressed with the ministers"
GOOD doggies
The future of local government must be called into question. Already the SNP plan to introduce a "local" income tax, set, collected and distributed centrally. Now even planning issues are beyond the remit of local authorities where they conflict with what Alex Salmond - or should that be Alex Stalin - wants.
Remember, it is not permissible to consider party political matters when considering planning issues. The planning gain or otherwise is all that is allowed to be considered.
To use a phrase the SNP are keen on, Salmond MUST KNOW this yet he is prepared to break the law. You'll all be demanding his resignation now I suppose?
What a supine position for any so-called government to take. Trump says he won't appeal so Salmond does it for him.
Welcome to the new Scotland - theme park for the mega rich. Managing Director - A Salmond
Proprietors - B Souter & D Trump
Posted by: I'm no really here on 9:57pm Tue 4 Dec 07
As posted on another thread, with a project this big and it's potential environmental impact, it shouldn't be left to a local council - certainly not Liberals It's like leaving Jenny Dawe to decide on the merits of building a Nuclear Power Plant - or a tram line.
Did you see how quickly N.I. moved in to grab it.
Only criticism of the SNP Government is that they should have acted sooner. Just hope they are not overawed by the $$$$.
As posted on another thread, with a project this big and it's potential environmental impact, it shouldn't be left to a local council - certainly not Liberals It's like leaving Jenny Dawe to decide on the merits of building a Nuclear Power Plant - or a tram line.
Did you see how quickly N.I. moved in to grab it.
Only criticism of the SNP Government is that they should have acted sooner. Just hope they are not overawed by the $$$$.
Posted by: Los Angeles, Edinburgh on 10:16pm Tue 4 Dec 07
Scotmid Plagarist Writes [quote]Though L aughable A ss's other assertion can be easily ignored: " It will be the measure of Swinney if he sees merit in it."[/quote] You quoted only half my sentence, you dishonest squit. And your prose is execrable, which is to say, barely better than your grasp of politics and human nature.
Had the SNP ignored the hue and cry you'd be the first to scribble screeds of dribble accusing them of dereliction of duty.
Scotmid Plagarist Writes
Though L aughable A ss's other assertion can be easily ignored: " It will be the measure of Swinney if he sees merit in it."
You quoted only half my sentence, you dishonest squit. And your prose is execrable, which is to say, barely better than your grasp of politics and human nature.
Had the SNP ignored the hue and cry you'd be the first to scribble screeds of dribble accusing them of dereliction of duty.
Posted by: Displaced Glaswegian, Lanarkshire on 10:16pm Tue 4 Dec 07
[quote][bold]Richard Taylor[/bold] wrote:
To my central belt friends: Don't recall such a furore when a golf course was built at Loch Lomond. Certainly can't recall people in the NE coming out against it. And what did the camera pan on during the Scottish Open, apart form the gowf? Buzzard, osprey...BIRDS...WIL DLIFE!!!!!! Quel surprise. [/quote] That might be something to do with the fact that there isn't a 500 bed hotel, umpteen 'luxury' houses and a sprawling holiday resort at Loch Lomond - and it utilised an existing large building!
Trump is not to be trusted; if approved the North east will simply lose out because Trump will cut and run leaving you high and dry. he has done it before in the USA and othet places - why can't you see beyond theYankee dollar?
Richard Taylor wrote:
To my central belt friends: Don't recall such a furore when a golf course was built at Loch Lomond. Certainly can't recall people in the NE coming out against it. And what did the camera pan on during the Scottish Open, apart form the gowf? Buzzard, osprey...BIRDS...WIL DLIFE!!!!!! Quel surprise.
That might be something to do with the fact that there isn't a 500 bed hotel, umpteen 'luxury' houses and a sprawling holiday resort at Loch Lomond - and it utilised an existing large building!
Trump is not to be trusted; if approved the North east will simply lose out because Trump will cut and run leaving you high and dry. he has done it before in the USA and othet places - why can't you see beyond theYankee dollar?
Posted by: Los Angeles, Edinburgh on 10:23pm Tue 4 Dec 07
Displaced Glaswegian Asks Taylor[quote]why can't you see beyond theYankee dollar?[/quote] It's called an inferiority complex, derived from centuries of subservience to another country, its government, values, and mores. And being told and terrified into believing we are permanently poverty-stricken tatty snatchers [bold]who should be thankful for any morsel tossed our way.[/bold]
Displaced Glaswegian Asks Taylor
why can't you see beyond theYankee dollar?
It's called an inferiority complex, derived from centuries of subservience to another country, its government, values, and mores. And being told and terrified into believing we are permanently poverty-stricken tatty snatchers
who should be thankful for any morsel tossed our way. Posted by: Dot on 10:24pm Tue 4 Dec 07
This sends out a message that we should not care about our countryside, our environment. No matter how beautiful, how unique, a place might be it can be destroyed at the whim of an overseas speculator.
Jobs are usually filled by cheap EU labour now, and the jobs offered by this development are temporary construction or low paid service jobs.
The SNP claims that we have been lied to about the oil resources, that the oil will last for years. Why all the sudden panic about it running out now.?The windfarm which Trump opposes will provide construction jobs and energy.
We have historic, first class, golf courses in Scotland.
This sends out a message that we should not care about our countryside, our environment. No matter how beautiful, how unique, a place might be it can be destroyed at the whim of an overseas speculator.
Jobs are usually filled by cheap EU labour now, and the jobs offered by this development are temporary construction or low paid service jobs.
The SNP claims that we have been lied to about the oil resources, that the oil will last for years. Why all the sudden panic about it running out now.?The windfarm which Trump opposes will provide construction jobs and energy.
We have historic, first class, golf courses in Scotland.
Posted by: Watchman, North Lanarkshire on 10:28pm Tue 4 Dec 07
Win Win situation as far as I can see, if it comes off then good investment for the North East and an oportunity to see some backpedling from some of the regular posters on here as the SNP demonstrate they aint any better or worse than the other parties.
If it doesnt well its a shame for the Aberdonians who supported it but hey you can always vote them out at the next election
Win Win situation as far as I can see, if it comes off then good investment for the North East and an oportunity to see some backpedling from some of the regular posters on here as the SNP demonstrate they aint any better or worse than the other parties.
If it doesnt well its a shame for the Aberdonians who supported it but hey you can always vote them out at the next election
Posted by: Albert, Glasgow on 10:29pm Tue 4 Dec 07
[quote][bold]Woody[/bold] wrote:
All in all a sad reflection of our ambitions for Scotland. Selling our land to a foreign housing developer, lets not kid ourselves that this is about golf and tourism and the inclusion in the plans for a turf research institute is frankly patronising! What do we want to be perceived as and aspire to as a nation? World Class or World Crass?! [/quote] Or Desert Grass ...
Who owns most of the land? A comparatively small band of people, mostly foreigners. Who owns Glasgow? Paul Green perhaps.
The real disgrace is that a billion pound development fell by one man having two votes. It is ludicrous.
Woody wrote:
All in all a sad reflection of our ambitions for Scotland. Selling our land to a foreign housing developer, lets not kid ourselves that this is about golf and tourism and the inclusion in the plans for a turf research institute is frankly patronising! What do we want to be perceived as and aspire to as a nation? World Class or World Crass?!
Or Desert Grass ...
Who owns most of the land? A comparatively small band of people, mostly foreigners. Who owns Glasgow? Paul Green perhaps.
The real disgrace is that a billion pound development fell by one man having two votes. It is ludicrous.
Posted by: James on 10:32pm Tue 4 Dec 07
Of course, the views of a dodgy American property developer take precedence over those of the local planning committee. had you not realised that? Scotland really needs a luxury golf complex and holiday village in the far north, right??
Wonder what Salmond was up to when he went to his private meetings in New York recently? Why his he so keen on this development. Time for some investigative reporting...
Of course, the views of a dodgy American property developer take precedence over those of the local planning committee. had you not realised that? Scotland really needs a luxury golf complex and holiday village in the far north, right??
Wonder what Salmond was up to when he went to his private meetings in New York recently? Why his he so keen on this development. Time for some investigative reporting...
Posted by: Hal, Fife on 10:32pm Tue 4 Dec 07
the decision to give the go ahead for a billion Pound Investment was clearly too big for the Councilors to take... Ecky is quite correct to take the decision for Scotland rather than at Council level...
the decision to give the go ahead for a billion Pound Investment was clearly too big for the Councilors to take... Ecky is quite correct to take the decision for Scotland rather than at Council level...
Posted by: Glasgow, Glasgow on 10:47pm Tue 4 Dec 07
[quote][bold]Albert[/bold] wrote:
[quote][bold]Woody[/bold] wrote: All in all a sad reflection of our ambitions for Scotland. Selling our land to a foreign housing developer, lets not kid ourselves that this is about golf and tourism and the inclusion in the plans for a turf research institute is frankly patronising! What do we want to be perceived as and aspire to as a nation? World Class or World Crass?! [/quote] Or Desert Grass ... Who owns most of the land? A comparatively small band of people, mostly foreigners. Who owns Glasgow? Paul Green perhaps. The real disgrace is that a billion pound development fell by one man having two votes. It is ludicrous.[/quote] Fair point on land ownership but thankfully we have due process (or do we?) and powers to decide on what tasteless property developers scar our landscape with.
Albert wrote:
Woody wrote: All in all a sad reflection of our ambitions for Scotland. Selling our land to a foreign housing developer, lets not kid ourselves that this is about golf and tourism and the inclusion in the plans for a turf research institute is frankly patronising! What do we want to be perceived as and aspire to as a nation? World Class or World Crass?!
Or Desert Grass ... Who owns most of the land? A comparatively small band of people, mostly foreigners. Who owns Glasgow? Paul Green perhaps. The real disgrace is that a billion pound development fell by one man having two votes. It is ludicrous.
Fair point on land ownership but thankfully we have due process (or do we?) and powers to decide on what tasteless property developers scar our landscape with.
Posted by: Mohammid the dancing bear, outside the power station on 10:49pm Tue 4 Dec 07
Blessed is the Profit that is made on the Golf Course...Muslims say Aye to Golf...and Aye tae a Pie..as long as its not a Porkie Pie
Blessed is the Profit that is made on the Golf Course...Muslims say Aye to Golf...and Aye tae a Pie..as long as its not a Porkie Pie
Posted by: jim, west dunbartonshire on 10:49pm Tue 4 Dec 07
[quote]]Posted by: scotleag on 9:55pm today
This has the potential of a [bold]GENUINE[/bold] scandal,far outweighing the faux outrage of the SNP this past week. First question must be which ministers took the decision to call this in? The statement only refers to "ministers." Was Alex Salmond involved? Has he abused his position by intervening on a constituency matter? Difficult to see this decision being taken[bold] WITHOUT[/bold] his knowledge.[/quote]
Think this quote from Alex Salmond back in April, when Trump signalled that he would be equally happy doing business with an independent Scotland, might shed some light:
“Today we are being held back by a low ambition Scottish Executive.
“With fresh thinking and a new approach there is so much more we can achieve. There is much to do and, as Donald Trump suggests, if we set our minds to it, it is all within our nation’s reach.”
His constituency. His pal Donald, a Globalscot (check it out on Google) at Jack McConnell's personal invite. Two and two makes... You're right, it does indeed have the potential of becoming a SCANDAL of the first order.
]Posted by: scotleag on 9:55pm today
This has the potential of a GENUINE scandal,far outweighing the faux outrage of the SNP this past week. First question must be which ministers took the decision to call this in? The statement only refers to "ministers." Was Alex Salmond involved? Has he abused his position by intervening on a constituency matter? Difficult to see this decision being taken WITHOUT his knowledge.
Think this quote from Alex Salmond back in April, when Trump signalled that he would be equally happy doing business with an independent Scotland, might shed some light:
“Today we are being held back by a low ambition Scottish Executive.
“With fresh thinking and a new approach there is so much more we can achieve. There is much to do and, as Donald Trump suggests, if we set our minds to it, it is all within our nation’s reach.”
His constituency. His pal Donald, a Globalscot (check it out on Google) at Jack McConnell's personal invite. Two and two makes... You're right, it does indeed have the potential of becoming a SCANDAL of the first order.
Posted by: DAVID PICKETT on 10:51pm Tue 4 Dec 07
Anything that helps to develop Scotland and reduce the level of unemployment should be welcomed...
Seems at Aberdeen currently enjoy's the oil price upturn people are forgetting what it was like when the price went down to $20 a barrel and the place was full of gloom and doom..
[bold]Scotland is the home of Golf and to loose this to NL would be a disgrace.
Anything that helps to develop Scotland and reduce the level of unemployment should be welcomed...
Seems at Aberdeen currently enjoy's the oil price upturn people are forgetting what it was like when the price went down to $20 a barrel and the place was full of gloom and doom..
Scotland is the home of Golf and to loose this to NL would be a disgrace.
Posted by: archie, Balloch on 10:58pm Tue 4 Dec 07
[quote][bold]DAVID PICKETT[/bold] wrote:
Anything that helps to develop Scotland and reduce the level of unemployment should be welcomed...
Seems at Aberdeen currently enjoy's the oil price upturn people are forgetting what it was like when the price went down to $20 a barrel and the place was full of gloom and doom..
[bold]Scotland is the home of Golf and to loose this to NL would be a disgrace.[/quote] What' golf got to do with it? We're talking 1000 holiday homes, 500 exclusive executive villas and a 350 bedroom hotel. The golf courses (on a Site of Special Scientific Interest) are a fudge, nothing else.
Another thing - last year Trump was talking about "a new 500 million dollar golf and leisure development in Aberdeenshire" - his words - when did it suddenly hit 2 billion dollars?
DAVID PICKETT wrote:
Anything that helps to develop Scotland and reduce the level of unemployment should be welcomed...
Seems at Aberdeen currently enjoy's the oil price upturn people are forgetting what it was like when the price went down to $20 a barrel and the place was full of gloom and doom..
Scotland is the home of Golf and to loose this to NL would be a disgrace.
What' golf got to do with it? We're talking 1000 holiday homes, 500 exclusive executive villas and a 350 bedroom hotel. The golf courses (on a Site of Special Scientific Interest) are a fudge, nothing else.
Another thing - last year Trump was talking about "a new 500 million dollar golf and leisure development in Aberdeenshire" - his words - when did it suddenly hit 2 billion dollars?
Posted by: James on 11:03pm Tue 4 Dec 07
I mean , no disrespect to Aberdeenshire, but would you rather go to a golf course in Spain or there? I cannot see it being sustainable to the point of getting a return on its investment. There's something more afoot.
I mean , no disrespect to Aberdeenshire, but would you rather go to a golf course in Spain or there? I cannot see it being sustainable to the point of getting a return on its investment. There's something more afoot.
Posted by: Hal, Fife on 11:03pm Tue 4 Dec 07
Huff and Puff all ye like... but the Billion Pound Investment is far too big for local Councilors to deal with... It is of nation Interest A message needs to be sent out that Scotland is a good place to do Business .Just thank the Gods that Jimmy Krankie was not in charge to deal with it.... She would have charged him for her next election campaign.
Huff and Puff all ye like... but the Billion Pound Investment is far too big for local Councilors to deal with... It is of nation Interest A message needs to be sent out that Scotland is a good place to do Business .Just thank the Gods that Jimmy Krankie was not in charge to deal with it.... She would have charged him for her next election campaign.
Posted by: Woody, Glasgow on 11:04pm Tue 4 Dec 07
Ach, doubtless it will go ahead but we will get our own back when yankee tourist comes to visit Trumpo Links Golf & Country Club Funfair Resort by charging them a fortune for crap food, mince service by an underpaid Pole, persistent rudness and an inconvenienced disposition ensuring that they never return. How many Americans actually return to the Home of Golf? Not many is the answer! Here's hoping its one less very soon!
Ach, doubtless it will go ahead but we will get our own back when yankee tourist comes to visit Trumpo Links Golf & Country Club Funfair Resort by charging them a fortune for crap food, mince service by an underpaid Pole, persistent rudness and an inconvenienced disposition ensuring that they never return. How many Americans actually return to the Home of Golf? Not many is the answer! Here's hoping its one less very soon!
Posted by: V.ALLAN, argyll on 11:09pm Tue 4 Dec 07
What price the democratic vote now , Dont dare vote against big business or your newly elected Scottish Government will trample over you.. I think it is shocking what this government is planning to do , maybe the new slogan should be welcome to TRUMP LAND..
What price the democratic vote now , Dont dare vote against big business or your newly elected Scottish Government will trample over you.. I think it is shocking what this government is planning to do , maybe the new slogan should be welcome to TRUMP LAND..
Posted by: Hal, Fife on 11:11pm Tue 4 Dec 07
Woody .. that is a infantile post... We need to be good at what we do we need to be successful... or do u really want to live in a crap country.. why dont ye just f*** **f to wherever it is that suits ye.
Woody .. that is a infantile post... We need to be good at what we do we need to be successful... or do u really want to live in a crap country.. why dont ye just f*** **f to wherever it is that suits ye.
Posted by: Woody, Glasgow on 11:14pm Tue 4 Dec 07
[quote][bold]archie[/bold] wrote:
[quote][bold]DAVID PICKETT[/bold] wrote: Anything that helps to develop Scotland and reduce the level of unemployment should be welcomed... Seems at Aberdeen currently enjoy\'s the oil price upturn people are forgetting what it was like when the price went down to $20 a barrel and the place was full of gloom and doom.. [bold]Scotland is the home of Golf and to loose this to NL would be a disgrace.[/quote] What\' golf got to do with it? We\'re talking 1000 holiday homes, 500 exclusive executive villas and a 350 bedroom hotel. The golf courses (on a Site of Special Scientific Interest) are a fudge, nothing else. Another thing - last year Trump was talking about \"a new 500 million dollar golf and leisure development in Aberdeenshire\" - his words - when did it suddenly hit 2 billion dollars?[/quote] Theres no unemployment in Aberdeen! Anyone without a job in Boomtown is plain lazy or a junky. Staff up your resort with them Donnieboy! Scotland is indeed the Home of Golf, lets preserve that by not building condo-golf for bloated buggy driving tourists in the North East!
archie wrote:
DAVID PICKETT wrote: Anything that helps to develop Scotland and reduce the level of unemployment should be welcomed... Seems at Aberdeen currently enjoy\'s the oil price upturn people are forgetting what it was like when the price went down to $20 a barrel and the place was full of gloom and doom.. Scotland is the home of Golf and to loose this to NL would be a disgrace.
What\' golf got to do with it? We\'re talking 1000 holiday homes, 500 exclusive executive villas and a 350 bedroom hotel. The golf courses (on a Site of Special Scientific Interest) are a fudge, nothing else. Another thing - last year Trump was talking about \"a new 500 million dollar golf and leisure development in Aberdeenshire\" - his words - when did it suddenly hit 2 billion dollars?
Theres no unemployment in Aberdeen! Anyone without a job in Boomtown is plain lazy or a junky. Staff up your resort with them Donnieboy! Scotland is indeed the Home of Golf, lets preserve that by not building condo-golf for bloated buggy driving tourists in the North East!
Posted by: Woody, Glasgow on 11:25pm Tue 4 Dec 07
[quote][bold]Hal[/bold] wrote:
Woody .. that is a infantile post... We need to be good at what we do we need to be successful... or do u really want to live in a crap country.. why dont ye just f*** **f to wherever it is that suits ye.[/quote] Hal my friend.. I love my country and want more for it than crass, tasteless developments such as this. It stinks of corporate American formula golf development that consistently fails throughout the world, is ill conceived and will contribute nothing to our economy in the long term. We are good at what we do, we just dont do enough of it ourselves! Would you trust this man with a developement in Fife? On the hallowed links there?? Doubt it!
Hal wrote:
Woody .. that is a infantile post... We need to be good at what we do we need to be successful... or do u really want to live in a crap country.. why dont ye just f*** **f to wherever it is that suits ye.
Hal my friend.. I love my country and want more for it than crass, tasteless developments such as this. It stinks of corporate American formula golf development that consistently fails throughout the world, is ill conceived and will contribute nothing to our economy in the long term. We are good at what we do, we just dont do enough of it ourselves! Would you trust this man with a developement in Fife? On the hallowed links there?? Doubt it!
Posted by: Hal, Fife on 11:37pm Tue 4 Dec 07
Woody... the golf course will still be there long after the oil has run out... and we will be grateful that Trump had the vision that you lack... It may not be a cure all but if theres wealthy punters about... we have a chance of making some kind of living.... Perhaps you can remember Glasgow before it became a bit better than it was back in the 60s...The East of Fife is kept afloat by its Great Golf Courses... Whereas in Methil I guess we would love to have a five star golf and leisure nearby... Money... Ye never miss it till ye aint got it... so dont look a gift6 horse in the mouth.
Woody... the golf course will still be there long after the oil has run out... and we will be grateful that Trump had the vision that you lack... It may not be a cure all but if theres wealthy punters about... we have a chance of making some kind of living.... Perhaps you can remember Glasgow before it became a bit better than it was back in the 60s...The East of Fife is kept afloat by its Great Golf Courses... Whereas in Methil I guess we would love to have a five star golf and leisure nearby... Money... Ye never miss it till ye aint got it... so dont look a gift6 horse in the mouth.
Posted by: Huntly Loon, Aberdeenshire on 11:45pm Tue 4 Dec 07
V.ALLAN "What price the democratic vote now " I know you are down in Argyll so I'll bring you up to speed on this. The problem was that a rather unrepresentative committee of Aberdeenshire Council chaired by a libdem with rather extreme environmentalist beliefs used his casting vote to reject the Trump project despite the local inhabitants supporting the project by about 9 to 1. The result was that the council could not overturn the undemocratic decision of the Infrastructure committee. There was an impasse and a travesty of democracy. The Scottish government could do no other than call it in.
V.ALLAN "What price the democratic vote now " I know you are down in Argyll so I'll bring you up to speed on this. The problem was that a rather unrepresentative committee of Aberdeenshire Council chaired by a libdem with rather extreme environmentalist beliefs used his casting vote to reject the Trump project despite the local inhabitants supporting the project by about 9 to 1. The result was that the council could not overturn the undemocratic decision of the Infrastructure committee. There was an impasse and a travesty of democracy. The Scottish government could do no other than call it in.
Posted by: Dave Anderson, Aberdeenshire on 11:45pm Tue 4 Dec 07
Applied for planning permission for my business in Aberdeenshire recently. Major investment and all that. It was "Granted Subject to Conditions" which I had to meet.
Shame I'm not an American millionnaire who can try to bully his way past the planning process by threatening to take his money elsewhere
Applied for planning permission for my business in Aberdeenshire recently. Major investment and all that. It was "Granted Subject to Conditions" which I had to meet.
Shame I'm not an American millionnaire who can try to bully his way past the planning process by threatening to take his money elsewhere
Posted by: Huttcity, New Zealand on 11:46pm Tue 4 Dec 07
This is a tough call as there are very strong arguments both for and against.
This is a great opportunity for the SNP to advance their "Good Governance" strategy - they only have to pick the best choice and make sure everyone understands exactly why that choice was the best one to take.
Can't be much fun to make as you will anger half the people - such is the burden of leadership I suppose.
My solut
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