Ban on alcohol at Scottish football matches to stay
A ban on alcohol at football matches will not be lifted in Scotland despite plans to allow drink at rugby union internationals at Murrayfield and Hampden.
The justice secretary Kenny MacAskill said no consultation will be held on allowing alcohol into football grounds while the police are opposed to a change.
However, he said the SNP administration would back a trial scheme, but only if police chiefs had a change of heart.
Mr MacAskill told Holyrood's justice committee that unlike football, rugby in Scotland had no history of violent behaviour at matches.
He added: "We have been quite clear that we will rule nothing in or nothing out, what matters here is the position and the advice of the police.
"At the present moment the advice from the police is quite clear, that they do not wish to see a relaxation for football stadia and that is how it stands."
The blanket ban came into effect in 1982 in reaction to crowd trouble at a Celtic v Rangers Scottish Cup Final at Hampden two years earlier.
At the committee meeting, the minister fielded questions on the technical aspects of the law change, which it is hoped will come into effect in time for the start of the rugby world cup later this month.
It means that fans will be able to take a pint of beer or a glass of wine to their seats when they attend senior men's rugby matches at Murrayfield and Hampden.
Mr MacAskill said it will bring Murrayfield into line with other UK rugby stadiums.
He claimed the rule change will lead to fans arriving promptly, but insisted it was "not a license to binge drink".
"We will see how this works in practice and I can say that if there is any misbehaviour or cause for concern we will not hesitate to re-introduce the ban if necessary," he said.
Cathie Craigie, Labour MSP for Cumbernauld and Kilsyth, said she was concerned that football was not being treated in the same way as rugby.
She asked the minister what discussions have been held with the police over the issue and what evidence there was that lifting the ban would exacerbate problems at football games.
He told her talks had been held with Acpos and that he had met police chiefs from across the country.
Mr MacAskill also cited city centre clashes between Hearts and Hibs fans following a recent Edinburgh derby as proof there were still problems.
If the police changed their mind and representations were received from football clubs, the minister said he would be prepared to change the law.
However, he added: "What I do have is a clear objection from the police at all levels to considering licensing football matches so therefore I'm not prepared to do it."
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Posted by: Jack Gough on 3:58pm Tue 4 Sep 07
The drinking will still go on in pubs and on supporters buses prior to and after games. The odd idiot still gets a knockback at the turnstile, or ejected or arrested after entry for being drunk or having drink in the ground. Why not just do the sensible thing and allow the fans to come into the stadium, sell weak beer or wine/alcopops for the ladies, stop selling it in plenty time before the match starts, get the pre match atmosphere built up and everyone will have a good time.
If it works at concerts and now rugby, why treat football fans (the majority of whom are decent folk) like second class citizens?
Or we could stick with continuing to allow the neanderthals binge drinking spirits in the pubs, staggering up to the ground, doing it all over again after the game. Even the 1st division match I attended at the weekend with Clyde and Dundee suffered due to this. Fans from Dundee drinking all the way down, arriving early at the local boozer, coming into the ground half cut, fighting amongst themselves, then one idiot who was tossed out got back in and ran onto the pitch.
If he could have had 2 drinks prematch at the stadium would that have happpened? Unlikely methinks.
This is the reality of the situation. But we wouldn't expect the politicians to know what is really going on, would we?
The drinking will still go on in pubs and on supporters buses prior to and after games. The odd idiot still gets a knockback at the turnstile, or ejected or arrested after entry for being drunk or having drink in the ground. Why not just do the sensible thing and allow the fans to come into the stadium, sell weak beer or wine/alcopops for the ladies, stop selling it in plenty time before the match starts, get the pre match atmosphere built up and everyone will have a good time.
If it works at concerts and now rugby, why treat football fans (the majority of whom are decent folk) like second class citizens?
Or we could stick with continuing to allow the neanderthals binge drinking spirits in the pubs, staggering up to the ground, doing it all over again after the game. Even the 1st division match I attended at the weekend with Clyde and Dundee suffered due to this. Fans from Dundee drinking all the way down, arriving early at the local boozer, coming into the ground half cut, fighting amongst themselves, then one idiot who was tossed out got back in and ran onto the pitch.
If he could have had 2 drinks prematch at the stadium would that have happpened? Unlikely methinks.
This is the reality of the situation. But we wouldn't expect the politicians to know what is really going on, would we?
Posted by: TheGlaswegian, Edinburgh on 6:01pm Tue 4 Sep 07
[quote]If it works at concerts and now rugby, why treat football fans (the majority of whom are decent folk) like second class citizens?[/quote]
Because dear jack, the minority are aresholes, and when drunk, they can be violent.
Selling **** inside grounds won't stop them drinking all they way down from Dundee on a bus or meeting up at 11am in their local boozer but it does stop them getting more drunk around the majority of decent folk and their families. Those days are gone and I for one don't want a drunk p1ssing on one of my sons or fighting with another fan in front of us.
If it works at concerts and now rugby, why treat football fans (the majority of whom are decent folk) like second class citizens?
Because dear jack, the minority are aresholes, and when drunk, they can be violent.
Selling **** inside grounds won't stop them drinking all they way down from Dundee on a bus or meeting up at 11am in their local boozer but it does stop them getting more drunk around the majority of decent folk and their families. Those days are gone and I for one don't want a drunk p1ssing on one of my sons or fighting with another fan in front of us.
Posted by: Jack Gough on 6:06pm Tue 4 Sep 07
Availability of alcohol at the ground might well discourage the carry out on the bus scenario. I don't think in-fighting is that great of a problem but it can happen occasionally, and the beer cans of urine being kicked down the stairs disappeared with the terraces.
It goes without saying that drunken behaviour like that would have to be robustly dealt with both by police and courts.
Surely if they can do it in Germany, England and other places around the world in many different sports, we can do it in Scotland with football. Would it really hurt to trial it?
Availability of alcohol at the ground might well discourage the carry out on the bus scenario. I don't think in-fighting is that great of a problem but it can happen occasionally, and the beer cans of urine being kicked down the stairs disappeared with the terraces.
It goes without saying that drunken behaviour like that would have to be robustly dealt with both by police and courts.
Surely if they can do it in Germany, England and other places around the world in many different sports, we can do it in Scotland with football. Would it really hurt to trial it?
Posted by: BM, Glasgow on 7:29pm Tue 4 Sep 07
I remember the disgusting sight of urine flowing down the terracing and pools of vomit at football matches, and fans so drunk they were falling into it. I remember the fights and mindless violence which seemed to plague all the top matches. I also remember the well behaved crowds from the lower divisions where this never happened, where fans could stand and inoffensively drink a can of lager of the terracing, threatening or causing nuisance to no-one. Similarly, I was never aware of a single incident at Murrayfield where sharing your hip flask with your neighbour replaced fighting with him as happened in certain football matches. I know it was the mindless minority at these matches, but we cannot risk that minority surfacing again and setting us back twenty five years. However it is unfair to punish Rugby for the sins of Football, so the proposals make sense.
I remember the disgusting sight of urine flowing down the terracing and pools of vomit at football matches, and fans so drunk they were falling into it. I remember the fights and mindless violence which seemed to plague all the top matches. I also remember the well behaved crowds from the lower divisions where this never happened, where fans could stand and inoffensively drink a can of lager of the terracing, threatening or causing nuisance to no-one. Similarly, I was never aware of a single incident at Murrayfield where sharing your hip flask with your neighbour replaced fighting with him as happened in certain football matches. I know it was the mindless minority at these matches, but we cannot risk that minority surfacing again and setting us back twenty five years. However it is unfair to punish Rugby for the sins of Football, so the proposals make sense.
Posted by: Iain on 8:26pm Tue 4 Sep 07
[quote][bold]Jack Gough[/bold] wrote:
The drinking will still go on in pubs and on supporters buses prior to and after games. The odd idiot still gets a knockback at the turnstile, or ejected or arrested after entry for being drunk or having drink in the ground. Why not just do the sensible thing and allow the fans to come into the stadium, sell weak beer or wine/alcopops for the ladies, stop selling it in plenty time before the match starts, get the pre match atmosphere built up and everyone will have a good time. If it works at concerts and now rugby, why treat football fans (the majority of whom are decent folk) like second class citizens? Or we could stick with continuing to allow the neanderthals binge drinking spirits in the pubs, staggering up to the ground, doing it all over again after the game. Even the 1st division match I attended at the weekend with Clyde and Dundee suffered due to this. Fans from Dundee drinking all the way down, arriving early at the local boozer, coming into the ground half cut, fighting amongst themselves, then one idiot who was tossed out got back in and ran onto the pitch. If he could have had 2 drinks prematch at the stadium would that have happpened? Unlikely methinks. This is the reality of the situation. But we wouldn't expect the politicians to know what is really going on, would we?[/quote] "wine/alcopops for the ladies"
A rather sexist remark don't you think?
Jack Gough wrote:
The drinking will still go on in pubs and on supporters buses prior to and after games. The odd idiot still gets a knockback at the turnstile, or ejected or arrested after entry for being drunk or having drink in the ground. Why not just do the sensible thing and allow the fans to come into the stadium, sell weak beer or wine/alcopops for the ladies, stop selling it in plenty time before the match starts, get the pre match atmosphere built up and everyone will have a good time. If it works at concerts and now rugby, why treat football fans (the majority of whom are decent folk) like second class citizens? Or we could stick with continuing to allow the neanderthals binge drinking spirits in the pubs, staggering up to the ground, doing it all over again after the game. Even the 1st division match I attended at the weekend with Clyde and Dundee suffered due to this. Fans from Dundee drinking all the way down, arriving early at the local boozer, coming into the ground half cut, fighting amongst themselves, then one idiot who was tossed out got back in and ran onto the pitch. If he could have had 2 drinks prematch at the stadium would that have happpened? Unlikely methinks. This is the reality of the situation. But we wouldn't expect the politicians to know what is really going on, would we?
"wine/alcopops for the ladies"
A rather sexist remark don't you think?
Posted by: Jack Gough on 8:51pm Tue 4 Sep 07
Not at all Iain. I'd say it was a safe bet that women in the UK drink more wine and alcopops than beer. Certainly the women I know do anyway. I'll rephrase it for the benefit of your brainwashed PC mind : "cider, wine and alcopops for those who do not enjoy beer".
The point is.... no spirits. Now away keep yourself busy and check all the other posts for any -isms you might find. Better double check them then you can report back.
Not at all Iain. I'd say it was a safe bet that women in the UK drink more wine and alcopops than beer. Certainly the women I know do anyway. I'll rephrase it for the benefit of your brainwashed PC mind : "cider, wine and alcopops for those who do not enjoy beer".
The point is.... no spirits. Now away keep yourself busy and check all the other posts for any -isms you might find. Better double check them then you can report back.
Posted by: JF, Bristol on 9:32am Wed 5 Sep 07
[quote][bold]TheGlaswegian[/bold] wrote:
[quote]If it works at concerts and now rugby, why treat football fans (the majority of whom are decent folk) like second class citizens?[/quote] Because dear jack, the minority are aresholes, and when drunk, they can be violent. Selling **** inside grounds won't stop them drinking all they way down from Dundee on a bus or meeting up at 11am in their local boozer but it does stop them getting more drunk around the majority of decent folk and their families. Those days are gone and I for one don't want a drunk p1ssing on one of my sons or fighting with another fan in front of us. [/quote] Claptrap. Class system strikes again. Even in the bold new vision that Salmondesque vision for Scotland, the edinburgh establishment win the day. Football violence is a FAR greater issue south of the border than it is up here and yet alcolhol can be purchased ast all major grounds in a civilised manner.
Nanny state strike s again.
TheGlaswegian wrote:
If it works at concerts and now rugby, why treat football fans (the majority of whom are decent folk) like second class citizens?
Because dear jack, the minority are aresholes, and when drunk, they can be violent. Selling **** inside grounds won't stop them drinking all they way down from Dundee on a bus or meeting up at 11am in their local boozer but it does stop them getting more drunk around the majority of decent folk and their families. Those days are gone and I for one don't want a drunk p1ssing on one of my sons or fighting with another fan in front of us.
Claptrap. Class system strikes again. Even in the bold new vision that Salmondesque vision for Scotland, the edinburgh establishment win the day. Football violence is a FAR greater issue south of the border than it is up here and yet alcolhol can be purchased ast all major grounds in a civilised manner.
Nanny state strike s again.
Posted by: Sport Fan on 12:17pm Wed 5 Sep 07
having attended a lower league football match recently I saw no drunken behaviour or violence on the terraces - plenty violence on the pitch mind you - but the level of verbal abuse directed at the match officials by players, team management and fans was utterly disgraceful. the language used by players towards the officials just would not be tolerated in a rugby match. Time to focus on general behaviour and get some common decency and respect back inrto football - did I say back?
having attended a lower league football match recently I saw no drunken behaviour or violence on the terraces - plenty violence on the pitch mind you - but the level of verbal abuse directed at the match officials by players, team management and fans was utterly disgraceful. the language used by players towards the officials just would not be tolerated in a rugby match. Time to focus on general behaviour and get some common decency and respect back inrto football - did I say back?
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