Alexander takes the wheel and sets out on collision course
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| ALEXANDER: Open to new powers for Holyrood |
Labour in Scotland is on a collision course with Westminster after leader-elect Wendy Alexander yesterday declared herself open to strong new financial powers for Holyrood.
"I welcome the debate about Scotland's constitutional future. The fundamental divide in Scotland is between those who want to reform the UK and those who wish to exit it," she said.
Ms Alexander was speaking in Stirling after nominations for the post of successor to Jack McConnell as leader of Labour in the Scottish Parliament closed without a challenger coming forward.
She will now embark on a series of unopposed party hustings round the country, starting in Inverness tomorrow, to put across her vision of Labour's future following the election defeat in May.
She pointed out that she had been one of the few Labour MSPs to write in the past about the case for stronger financial accountability for politicians at the Scottish parliament. "Other countries around the world have found other solutions as to how they should strengthen the accountability of their politicians," she said.
While she spoke of the need to "wait and see" how the debate over Holyrood powers developed, was she saying that she was prepared to look at what has been termed "fiscal autonomy" for the Scottish parliament?
"Yes," she said. "There needs to be a dialogue within the UK."
"Times change," she argued, saying that recent issues such as terror attacks by
al Qaeda or climate change were not around when as a special adviser to
Donald Dewar she worked with him on the original Scotland Act.
"Therefore having a fresh look at the settlement does not hold any anxieties for me," she said.
This is a very different tone from that struck by Scottish Secretary Des Browne who appeared to argue this week for no change in the devolution settlement. "This settlement for Scotland, which was hard fought and which we delivered, has shown itself to have an innate flexibility which allows it to serve the needs of the Scottish parliament," he said.
This was interpreted as a rejection of any change in the balance between reserved and devolved powers. This was not discouraged by a further comment: "My view
is that the practical needs of the Scottish people can be accommodated within this settlement," although an aide stressed last night that this was not "a policy edict".
But Ms Alexander may face a struggle to bring all in her party with her as she seeks to come to terms with May's defeat.
She stressed yesterday the point Mr Browne had been making was that the issues that matter most to people such as health and education should not be neglected in "the rush to someone else's agenda".
It was a clear attempt to direct the fire away from Mr Browne and in the direction of First Minister Alex Salmond. "There is little appetite in Scotland for politicians who put their own agenda first," she insisted.
She also said that it was worrying that the recent white paper from the SNP government appeared to be a "one-way bet on North Sea oil", but pressed again on her willingness to engage in a debate about more powers for Holyrood she said on the issue of broadcasting: "I welcome the debate and will listen to all the arguments put."
Ms Alexander's persuasive powers may also be put to the test with councillors and trade unionists. One of her stated strategy aims yesterday was for "consumer, not producer focused public services" - an aim which will be viewed
with deep suspicion by public service, health and teaching unions, all key traditional
parts of the Labour movement.
She also spoke of her desire to "empower people and communities" rather than institutions, citing the SNP's local income tax proposals as an onslaught on councillors.
But having addressed a meeting in Stirling of Labour council leaders - a meeting The Herald understands they did not know she would be attending - few stayed around for what was in effect her coronation as leader-elect.
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Posted by: Los Angeles, Edinburgh on 10:59pm Tue 21 Aug 07
[quote]But having addressed a meeting in Stirling of Labour council leaders - a meeting The Herald understands they did not know she would be attending - [bold]few stayed around for what was in effect her coronation as leader-elect[/bold] .[/quote] Amen. The rot has set in already.
But having addressed a meeting in Stirling of Labour council leaders - a meeting The Herald understands they did not know she would be attending - few stayed around for what was in effect her coronation as leader-elect .
Amen. The rot has set in already.
Posted by: Im not really here on 11:11pm Tue 21 Aug 07
With that statement, we shall at least see what support she has within the wider Labour Party.
When you consider it, it is a very bold and unexpected statement from her. Fiscal autonomy is a huge step in SLP thinking, and clearly sets her against Browne. But that doesn't matter. It;s Broon's reaction that matters.
Perhaps her brother has given her some inside info into Broons thinking, "straight from the horses mouth"???
With that statement, we shall at least see what support she has within the wider Labour Party.
When you consider it, it is a very bold and unexpected statement from her. Fiscal autonomy is a huge step in SLP thinking, and clearly sets her against Browne. But that doesn't matter. It;s Broon's reaction that matters.
Perhaps her brother has given her some inside info into Broons thinking, "straight from the horses mouth"???
Posted by: Im not really here on 11:18pm Tue 21 Aug 07
If Broon comes out with a statement in positive support for Wendy's views, then calls an election, this will undercut the support of the SNP.
My point of view is that I want to see fiscal autonomy for Scotland as a start, and I don't care whether it is the SNP, Labour or the Tooth Fairy that brings it.
What you have to say, though, is that without an SNP win in May, she would never be in that job, and would have never made that statement. So well done, and thank you to everyone who voted SNP.
If Broon comes out with a statement in positive support for Wendy's views, then calls an election, this will undercut the support of the SNP.
My point of view is that I want to see fiscal autonomy for Scotland as a start, and I don't care whether it is the SNP, Labour or the Tooth Fairy that brings it.
What you have to say, though, is that without an SNP win in May, she would never be in that job, and would have never made that statement. So well done, and thank you to everyone who voted SNP.
Posted by: Jake, Lothian on 11:28pm Tue 21 Aug 07
Anyone who thinks that she is saying anything that hasn't already been run past her brother and Gordon must still believe in the Tooth Fairy.
Anyone who thinks that she is saying anything that hasn't already been run past her brother and Gordon must still believe in the Tooth Fairy.
Posted by: Im not really here on 11:41pm Tue 21 Aug 07
Any betting that by the end of the year the future of the post of the Secretary of State for Scotland, and the Scottish Office at Westminster will be in question?
Any betting that by the end of the year the future of the post of the Secretary of State for Scotland, and the Scottish Office at Westminster will be in question?
Posted by: Diomedes Kane, Glasgow on 12:08am Wed 22 Aug 07
Labour only ever supported the devolution settlement because it was a job creation exercise for them during the Thatcher era. Any progressive sounds they make now will be equally mercenary and opportunistic.
Labour only ever supported the devolution settlement because it was a job creation exercise for them during the Thatcher era. Any progressive sounds they make now will be equally mercenary and opportunistic.
Posted by: Tom McAlister on 12:15am Wed 22 Aug 07
.
Eh! ! Whit the f........?
[bold]
Labour in Scotland is on a collision course with Westminster after leader-elect Wendy Alexander yesterday declared herself open to strong new financial powers for Scotland.
" I welcome the debate about Scotland's constitutional future. The fundamental divide in Scotland is between those you want to reform the UK and those who wish to exit it ," she said.
[/bold]
So, the "separation" word has taken a bow and left by the exit.It's a fearfully negative word,ye'll understand and besides it wisnae working.Can't have negitivity in the new,new Labour branch office,can we?
Hang on a minute. it's not a statement of intent,an absolute commitment to doing something. it's not even a plausible promise made to be broken. Merely a thought on the matter.
So it's a non story.Aye about right. It could even be called an nonentity
.
.
Eh! ! Whit the f........?
Labour in Scotland is on a collision course with Westminster after leader-elect Wendy Alexander yesterday declared herself open to strong new financial powers for Scotland.
" I welcome the debate about Scotland's constitutional future. The fundamental divide in Scotland is between those you want to reform the UK and those who wish to exit it ," she said.
So, the "separation" word has taken a bow and left by the exit.It's a fearfully negative word,ye'll understand and besides it wisnae working.Can't have negitivity in the new,new Labour branch office,can we?
Hang on a minute. it's not a statement of intent,an absolute commitment to doing something. it's not even a plausible promise made to be broken. Merely a thought on the matter.
So it's a non story.Aye about right. It could even be called an nonentity
.
Posted by: northman, west of paradise on 12:31am Wed 22 Aug 07
If this is Wendy leading from the front it is at least interesting but what happened to internal democracy in the Labour Party? At one time such a significant policy shift would be a decision for the members at a conference.
If this is Wendy leading from the front it is at least interesting but what happened to internal democracy in the Labour Party? At one time such a significant policy shift would be a decision for the members at a conference.
Posted by: Jock Broon, Govan Glasgow on 12:38am Wed 22 Aug 07
She's a great looking burd Wendy is.
I have nice dreams about her every night
.
She's a great looking burd Wendy is.
I have nice dreams about her every night
.
Posted by: Archie, Argyll on 12:39am Wed 22 Aug 07
A NON STORY REPLACING A GONE STORY IT WOULD APPEAR.
A NON STORY REPLACING A GONE STORY IT WOULD APPEAR.
Posted by: Who gives a....., Glasgow on 12:50am Wed 22 Aug 07
When all is done and dusted, I wonder how much of the SLP and Queen Wendy's manifesto and Hustings speaches on this will actually sound like "the conversation with the Scottish People". I think just about every avenue is already covered or has the door open to discussion. OH! I forgot a couple of things. First is May wasnt that long ago, and the things that Queen Wendy and the rest of the SLP spouted in the race to defeat should not be forgotten, second, this will be fed to us as Labour Medicine, that its good for us, because they say so, and we - the people - who in the SLP opinion are too dumb to be given choice - dont get a word in edgeways.. There's still nothing exciting, radical or new coming from, or likely to come from SLP.
When all is done and dusted, I wonder how much of the SLP and Queen Wendy's manifesto and Hustings speaches on this will actually sound like "the conversation with the Scottish People". I think just about every avenue is already covered or has the door open to discussion. OH! I forgot a couple of things. First is May wasnt that long ago, and the things that Queen Wendy and the rest of the SLP spouted in the race to defeat should not be forgotten, second, this will be fed to us as Labour Medicine, that its good for us, because they say so, and we - the people - who in the SLP opinion are too dumb to be given choice - dont get a word in edgeways.. There's still nothing exciting, radical or new coming from, or likely to come from SLP.
Posted by: Home Rule for Pertyck, Glesca -thon rauch toun east o Pertyck Brig) on 1:07am Wed 22 Aug 07
[quote][bold]Jake[/bold] wrote:
Anyone who thinks that she is saying anything that hasn't already been run past her brother and Gordon must still believe in the Tooth Fairy. [/quote] I misread the above as: "Anyone who thinks that she is saying anything that hasn't already been run past her brother and Gordon must still believe in the Tory Party".
In Scotland, which is the more credible force-Tooth Fairy or Tory Party?
Jake wrote:
Anyone who thinks that she is saying anything that hasn't already been run past her brother and Gordon must still believe in the Tooth Fairy.
I misread the above as: "Anyone who thinks that she is saying anything that hasn't already been run past her brother and Gordon must still believe in the Tory Party".
In Scotland, which is the more credible force-Tooth Fairy or Tory Party?
Posted by: Im not really here on 1:41am Wed 22 Aug 07
Home Rule for Pertyck: The Tooth Fairy. At least with it you get some money back.
Home Rule for Pertyck: The Tooth Fairy. At least with it you get some money back.
Posted by: Scamp on 1:43am Wed 22 Aug 07
Knowing Labour this could be a carefully orchestrated piece of deceipt. Des Browne says no more powers... A few days later Wendy says Scotland needs more powers.... Eventually Gordon Brown agrees but only to those things that Wendy wants which probably won't be very much.
Result is a victory to Wendy and a kick in the teeth for the SNP. I can see it all unfolding now...
Knowing Labour this could be a carefully orchestrated piece of deceipt. Des Browne says no more powers... A few days later Wendy says Scotland needs more powers.... Eventually Gordon Brown agrees but only to those things that Wendy wants which probably won't be very much.
Result is a victory to Wendy and a kick in the teeth for the SNP. I can see it all unfolding now...
Posted by: Edward, Edinburgh on 1:52am Wed 22 Aug 07
[quote][bold]northman[/bold] wrote:
If this is Wendy leading from the front it is at least interesting but what happened to internal democracy in the Labour Party? At one time such a significant policy shift would be a decision for the members at a conference. [/quote] Didnt you know?
Theres no democracy within Labour, next conference , members will be told what the policy is and to accept it
northman wrote:
If this is Wendy leading from the front it is at least interesting but what happened to internal democracy in the Labour Party? At one time such a significant policy shift would be a decision for the members at a conference.
Didnt you know?
Theres no democracy within Labour, next conference , members will be told what the policy is and to accept it
Posted by: Edward, Edinburgh on 1:59am Wed 22 Aug 07
[quote][bold]Scamp[/bold] wrote:
Knowing Labour this could be a carefully orchestrated piece of deceipt. Des Browne says no more powers... A few days later Wendy says Scotland needs more powers.... Eventually Gordon Brown agrees but only to those things that Wendy wants which probably won't be very much. Result is a victory to Wendy and a kick in the teeth for the SNP. I can see it all unfolding now... [/quote] Can tell you know, simply by looking at the language and Des Browne’s’ premature slippage, that this is indeed a carefully orchestrated piece of deceit.
They’re putting out what we want to hear or at least what they think we want to hear
If Labour were serious, Gordon would have Des Browne fall on his sword, diminish or close the Scottish Office and have Labour split off Scottish Labour as a stand-alone entity. The phrase pigs might fly comes to mind!
Scamp wrote:
Knowing Labour this could be a carefully orchestrated piece of deceipt. Des Browne says no more powers... A few days later Wendy says Scotland needs more powers.... Eventually Gordon Brown agrees but only to those things that Wendy wants which probably won't be very much. Result is a victory to Wendy and a kick in the teeth for the SNP. I can see it all unfolding now...
Can tell you know, simply by looking at the language and Des Browne’s’ premature slippage, that this is indeed a carefully orchestrated piece of deceit.
They’re putting out what we want to hear or at least what they think we want to hear
If Labour were serious, Gordon would have Des Browne fall on his sword, diminish or close the Scottish Office and have Labour split off Scottish Labour as a stand-alone entity. The phrase pigs might fly comes to mind!
Posted by: im not really here is very BORING, Glasgow on 2:04am Wed 22 Aug 07
To Im not really here
''im not really here is BORING and UNFUNNY.
Gies a BREK son. Gonnae stop writing posts.
.
To Im not really here
''im not really here is BORING and UNFUNNY.
Gies a BREK son. Gonnae stop writing posts.
.
Posted by: Jack macconnall, Malawi on 3:09am Wed 22 Aug 07
That photo of Wendy scares the HELL out of me.
That photo of Wendy scares the HELL out of me.
Posted by: Dougie on 6:30am Wed 22 Aug 07
Labour in Scotland is on a collision course with Westminster!!!
Aye right!
Do they really think we'll buy that the new puppet will be saying anything that Gordie doesnt like.
Spinning already, and she aint even in the job yet.
Labour in Scotland is on a collision course with Westminster!!!
Aye right!
Do they really think we'll buy that the new puppet will be saying anything that Gordie doesnt like.
Spinning already, and she aint even in the job yet.
Posted by: martin, dundee on 6:46am Wed 22 Aug 07
this is the real success of the SNP.the Labour Party in Scotland is again forced to become more nationalistic.Would they have bothered if they had won the election? I very much doubt it.
It also indicates that GB is thinking of calling an election at Westminster.He needs every MP he can get in Scotland so he is attempting to take the nationalist (small n) vote.All that remains to be seen is whether the voters believe him and Wendy.I have my doubts!
this is the real success of the SNP.the Labour Party in Scotland is again forced to become more nationalistic.Would they have bothered if they had won the election? I very much doubt it.
It also indicates that GB is thinking of calling an election at Westminster.He needs every MP he can get in Scotland so he is attempting to take the nationalist (small n) vote.All that remains to be seen is whether the voters believe him and Wendy.I have my doubts!
Posted by: Buris, Larkhall on 6:53am Wed 22 Aug 07
Wendy is like one of those old toys where you pull a chord in the back of its head and it speaks. Except she has been pre programmed by Macavity.
Wendy is like one of those old toys where you pull a chord in the back of its head and it speaks. Except she has been pre programmed by Macavity.
Posted by: Grandpaw Broon, Glasgow on 7:02am Wed 22 Aug 07
Who's looking after the twin weans????
Who's looking after the twin weans????
Posted by: donald, glasgow on 7:29am Wed 22 Aug 07
[quote]Posted by: Jock Broon, Govan Glasgow on 12:38am today
She's a great looking burd Wendy is. I have nice dreams about her every night .
She's a great looking burd Wendy is.I have nice dreams about her every night[/quote] Pervert!
Wendy oan a collision wi' her bosses? Whit will Lord Fooks say?
Posted by: Jock Broon, Govan Glasgow on 12:38am today
She's a great looking burd Wendy is. I have nice dreams about her every night .
She's a great looking burd Wendy is.I have nice dreams about her every night
Pervert!
Wendy oan a collision wi' her bosses? Whit will Lord Fooks say?
Posted by: Chas, Glasgow on 7:49am Wed 22 Aug 07
Alexander's call for more financial powers is a cynical attempt to head off the SNP by appearing to be more nationalist than Jack McConnell (not difficult ). It won't work. There's no difference between the 2. Both are careerist Labour Unionist hacks. Let's see what she says when Brown shows his opposition to any further independence for the Scottish Parliament.. Just as McConnell showed his spinelessness over dawn raids and deportations, so too will Alexander over this issue.
Alexander's call for more financial powers is a cynical attempt to head off the SNP by appearing to be more nationalist than Jack McConnell (not difficult ). It won't work. There's no difference between the 2. Both are careerist Labour Unionist hacks. Let's see what she says when Brown shows his opposition to any further independence for the Scottish Parliament.. Just as McConnell showed his spinelessness over dawn raids and deportations, so too will Alexander over this issue.
Posted by: Ebb, Highland on 8:02am Wed 22 Aug 07
He he he,
Just how transparent are this lot, Ah well let them scheme and plot and in the end they'll lose. They still dont understand that honesty is the best policy.
But then they don't know what honesty is any more...
He he he,
Just how transparent are this lot, Ah well let them scheme and plot and in the end they'll lose. They still dont understand that honesty is the best policy.
But then they don't know what honesty is any more...
Posted by: Vince, Glasgow on 8:09am Wed 22 Aug 07
If she's so transparent, does that make her Window Alexander?!?
A play on words. Geddit? Sorry. It's the best I can do this morning.
If she's so transparent, does that make her Window Alexander?!?
A play on words. Geddit? Sorry. It's the best I can do this morning.
Posted by: Allan, Glasgow on 8:31am Wed 22 Aug 07
I read a book co-authored by Wendy Alexander titled New Wealth for Old Nations. I nearly fell off my chair when the issue of North Sea Oil was discussed. Basically, they discounted oil as a national asset due to its "inherent volatility" such that it could not be counted upon in the Scotland's budget . I honestly couldn't believe what I was reading.
Only a Scottish Labour politician could view Scottish oil as being disadvantage!!
I read a book co-authored by Wendy Alexander titled New Wealth for Old Nations. I nearly fell off my chair when the issue of North Sea Oil was discussed. Basically, they discounted oil as a national asset due to its "inherent volatility" such that it could not be counted upon in the Scotland's budget . I honestly couldn't believe what I was reading.
Only a Scottish Labour politician could view Scottish oil as being disadvantage!!
Posted by: dt, glasgow on 8:34am Wed 22 Aug 07
I am not a fan of Wee Eck but at least he is showing some interest in things that matter to the public. He still needs to address anti-social behaviour, education, transport and health but with no opposition in the shape of Ms Alexander it will be a bit like New Labour in 1997. My worst fear is that Wee Eck is turns into a New Blair with dire consequences for Scotland.
I am not a fan of Wee Eck but at least he is showing some interest in things that matter to the public. He still needs to address anti-social behaviour, education, transport and health but with no opposition in the shape of Ms Alexander it will be a bit like New Labour in 1997. My worst fear is that Wee Eck is turns into a New Blair with dire consequences for Scotland.
Posted by: ACC, Renfrewshire on 8:34am Wed 22 Aug 07
Wendy is just another career politician whose ambitions will not stop until she enters the Lords via Westminster. To her this is just another step on the career ladder and by staying in Scotland right now she gets the 'worklife balance' just right . So let's cut to the chase - everything that comes out of that woman's mouth will be a series of sanitised sound-bites aimed at furthering her own ambitions, with little care or regard for the people of Scotland who are left in her trail.
Let's keep the determination of our country in the hands of those who genuinely mean well for this nation and it's people.
Wendy is just another career politician whose ambitions will not stop until she enters the Lords via Westminster. To her this is just another step on the career ladder and by staying in Scotland right now she gets the 'worklife balance' just right . So let's cut to the chase - everything that comes out of that woman's mouth will be a series of sanitised sound-bites aimed at furthering her own ambitions, with little care or regard for the people of Scotland who are left in her trail.
Let's keep the determination of our country in the hands of those who genuinely mean well for this nation and it's people.
Posted by: Tommy, Las Pesqueras, Spain on 8:38am Wed 22 Aug 07
LEADER...did you say LEADER!!!
Puts me in mind of the old quip...There goes my men, I must follow them because I am their leader!!!
Get real Scotland, you may have an semi-independent parliment but you'll never have an independent SLP as long as Westminster is on the scene.
LEADER...did you say LEADER!!!
Puts me in mind of the old quip...There goes my men, I must follow them because I am their leader!!!
Get real Scotland, you may have an semi-independent parliment but you'll never have an independent SLP as long as Westminster is on the scene.
Posted by: frank mcbride, lusitania on 8:39am Wed 22 Aug 07
As I said yesterday, this is the beginning of the NuLab. fightback. Do not underestimate GB of the Paisley Girl. They are as manipulative as Blair ever was.
TIMELINE:
Browne, "No change".
The Paisley girl, "We must, seriously, consider mor powers for the SE, even to the extent of Fiscal Automomy".
A PM spokesperson, "Our position is that Devolution is working but, we will have full consultations with our new Scottish leadership, in due course".
The Paisley girl's words to NuLab faithful, "We must reconnect with the Scottish people, we must listen to the desire for more Devolved powers, we must make the Scottish people aware that the SNP is the worst thing that has happened".
Paisley girl becomes NuLab. Scottish leader.
Nulab. Conference, GB states that every aspect of the Constitution will be overhauled in the next Parliament. He has been convinced that there may be a case for much more decentralisation of Govt.
General Election called for Oct/Nov.2007
As I said yesterday, this is the beginning of the NuLab. fightback. Do not underestimate GB of the Paisley Girl. They are as manipulative as Blair ever was.
TIMELINE:
Browne, "No change".
The Paisley girl, "We must, seriously, consider mor powers for the SE, even to the extent of Fiscal Automomy".
A PM spokesperson, "Our position is that Devolution is working but, we will have full consultations with our new Scottish leadership, in due course".
The Paisley girl's words to NuLab faithful, "We must reconnect with the Scottish people, we must listen to the desire for more Devolved powers, we must make the Scottish people aware that the SNP is the worst thing that has happened".
Paisley girl becomes NuLab. Scottish leader.
Nulab. Conference, GB states that every aspect of the Constitution will be overhauled in the next Parliament. He has been convinced that there may be a case for much more decentralisation of Govt.
General Election called for Oct/Nov.2007
Posted by: megz, glasgow on 9:29am Wed 22 Aug 07
frank you for got to add what happens after the election, (absolutely nothing changes, BS for votes)
frank you for got to add what happens after the election, (absolutely nothing changes, BS for votes)
Posted by: Dougthedug on 9:33am Wed 22 Aug 07
"Labour in Scotland is on a collision course with Westminster after leader-elect Wendy Alexander yesterday declared herself open to strong new financial powers for Holyrood."
Wendy leads the MSP's in the Parliament and she'll get a seat on the 34 member Scottish Executive Committee (SEC). As far as I can make out from some basic research she's got no authority over MP's, MEP's, Councillors or the rest of the party members in Scotland.
She might have a"...vision of Labour's future following the election defeat in May.", but she's appears to have no authority in the Labour party to drive it. The constant confusion between Leader of the Labour MSP's in the Parliament and the non-existent post of Leader of the Labour Party in Scotland appears to be a deliberate policy in the Media.
Since there is no such thing as a Scottish Labour Party can someone tell me how Wendy is going to be leader of something that doesn't exist and why anyone in the Labour Party is going to listen to her?
"Labour in Scotland is on a collision course with Westminster after leader-elect Wendy Alexander yesterday declared herself open to strong new financial powers for Holyrood."
Wendy leads the MSP's in the Parliament and she'll get a seat on the 34 member Scottish Executive Committee (SEC). As far as I can make out from some basic research she's got no authority over MP's, MEP's, Councillors or the rest of the party members in Scotland.
She might have a"...vision of Labour's future following the election defeat in May.", but she's appears to have no authority in the Labour party to drive it. The constant confusion between Leader of the Labour MSP's in the Parliament and the non-existent post of Leader of the Labour Party in Scotland appears to be a deliberate policy in the Media.
Since there is no such thing as a Scottish Labour Party can someone tell me how Wendy is going to be leader of something that doesn't exist and why anyone in the Labour Party is going to listen to her?
Posted by: John J, Edinburgh on 9:36am Wed 22 Aug 07
Wendy's speech is a concoction of contradictory vague statements.
Unless she has improved her arithmetic since she wrote in the Herald before the May elections I would be seriously worried if she ever had any fiscal power over Scotland's finances.
Wendy's speech is a concoction of contradictory vague statements.
Unless she has improved her arithmetic since she wrote in the Herald before the May elections I would be seriously worried if she ever had any fiscal power over Scotland's finances.
Posted by: bob, Edinburgh on 9:40am Wed 22 Aug 07
Heaven rejoices when a sinner repents, but it appears that nationalists don't.
If Wendy Alexander is even giving a lukewarm commitment to dialogue within the UK on fiscal autonomy, or to more autonomy for the Labour Party in Scotland, we should welcome it, encourage her and give her reasons to fight for it. Either way we win.
Dismissing her as wee Wendy from whom we've heard and seen everything gains us nothing but petty satisfaction and plays the game of the old Labour thugs in the Houses of Commons and Lords.
Heaven rejoices when a sinner repents, but it appears that nationalists don't.
If Wendy Alexander is even giving a lukewarm commitment to dialogue within the UK on fiscal autonomy, or to more autonomy for the Labour Party in Scotland, we should welcome it, encourage her and give her reasons to fight for it. Either way we win.
Dismissing her as wee Wendy from whom we've heard and seen everything gains us nothing but petty satisfaction and plays the game of the old Labour thugs in the Houses of Commons and Lords.
Posted by: Los Angeles, Edinburgh on 9:56am Wed 22 Aug 07
[bold]Clap three times if you believe in the Labour Party.[/bold]
Suggesting Wendy Alexander is an intellectual is to suggest the crooner Bing Crosby was a great operatic tenor. And as for the labour party being socialists - what happened to Clause 4? It's in Never, Never Land. What does the Labour Party stand for? If they don't know who does? The ruled Scotland so long as they gave the impression they were the natural party of Scotland but the SNP has shown that to be a myth.
Wendy Alexander is abrasive. And that's an understatement.
She's already been hauled up before a grievance committee, the action brought by a civil servant. Can't be long before she oversteps the mark again but this time makes a public apology. You will probably find a portrait of Thatcher in her handbag, a gift from Blair.
To suggest Labour can be radical while servant of twa maisters shows the shallowness of Alexander's intellect. She will spend the next year trying to distance herself from her own brother while having dinner with him at weekends to report her progress to Captain Hook, while playing the role of the Crocodile swallowing hapless Labour pirates forced to walk the plank.... a million exhausting miles away from promoting Scottish interests.
The SNP?
They are governing Scotland. It comes easily to them because it's their whole reason for existence; they have no allegiance to anything else. Voters will keep watch for any compromise of policy and loss of dynamism that does not put Scotland first, second, and always.
You can clap as much as you like but Labour as constituted is dead. The magic formula keeping them alive is proportional representation.
Clap three times if you believe in the Labour Party.
Suggesting Wendy Alexander is an intellectual is to suggest the crooner Bing Crosby was a great operatic tenor. And as for the labour party being socialists - what happened to Clause 4? It's in Never, Never Land. What does the Labour Party stand for? If they don't know who does? The ruled Scotland so long as they gave the impression they were the natural party of Scotland but the SNP has shown that to be a myth.
Wendy Alexander is abrasive. And that's an understatement.
She's already been hauled up before a grievance committee, the action brought by a civil servant. Can't be long before she oversteps the mark again but this time makes a public apology. You will probably find a portrait of Thatcher in her handbag, a gift from Blair.
To suggest Labour can be radical while servant of twa maisters shows the shallowness of Alexander's intellect. She will spend the next year trying to distance herself from her own brother while having dinner with him at weekends to report her progress to Captain Hook, while playing the role of the Crocodile swallowing hapless Labour pirates forced to walk the plank.... a million exhausting miles away from promoting Scottish interests.
The SNP?
They are governing Scotland. It comes easily to them because it's their whole reason for existence; they have no allegiance to anything else. Voters will keep watch for any compromise of policy and loss of dynamism that does not put Scotland first, second, and always.
You can clap as much as you like but Labour as constituted is dead. The magic formula keeping them alive is proportional representation.
Posted by: Steve, Edinburgh on 9:56am Wed 22 Aug 07
This is a completely stage managed act, there is no collision course with westminster, this is all planned by Westminster. It's so obvious, lot's of publicity about Wendy fighting the big bad Westminster, the public forget again and believe the propaganda, Labour win the next election. Not this time, you get more powers you get further away from Westminster, you get further away then you want even more powers, and so on. It will be entertaining watching all the rigged confrontations.
Best have your CV upated Wendy, and keep it handy.
This is a completely stage managed act, there is no collision course with westminster, this is all planned by Westminster. It's so obvious, lot's of publicity about Wendy fighting the big bad Westminster, the public forget again and believe the propaganda, Labour win the next election. Not this time, you get more powers you get further away from Westminster, you get further away then you want even more powers, and so on. It will be entertaining watching all the rigged confrontations.
Best have your CV upated Wendy, and keep it handy.
Posted by: Mike, London on 9:58am Wed 22 Aug 07
Its called the "Good guy, Bad guy" tactics,I wonder how many Scots will fall for that ?,not many I think.
Its called the "Good guy, Bad guy" tactics,I wonder how many Scots will fall for that ?,not many I think.
Posted by: Dougthedug on 10:00am Wed 22 Aug 07
bob, Edinburgh on 9:40am today
"Heaven rejoices when a sinner repents, but it appears that nationalists don't."
Wendy hasn't repented yet, she's not said sorry for anything she's done or said or promoted and she's still in the Labour party.
When she sees the light and pushes independence, I'll send her chocolates.
bob, Edinburgh on 9:40am today
"Heaven rejoices when a sinner repents, but it appears that nationalists don't."
Wendy hasn't repented yet, she's not said sorry for anything she's done or said or promoted and she's still in the Labour party.
When she sees the light and pushes independence, I'll send her chocolates.
Posted by: Ally, Edinburgh on 10:12am Wed 22 Aug 07
Ever since they got rid of militant they have been a New Labour dictatorship. The biggest mistake they made was booting out the socialists from the party. They were the only ones who provided Labour with the broad church and support of the working class. Any talk of Labour being a party of the people is misinformed nonsense.
Labour have always been a party of glorified civil servants in Scotland. Whereby they select who will be given a fat cheque from Westminster. Wendy has a brother in cabinet, how can the Herald claim the Scottish Labour Party will be on a collision course with Westminster? What will happen? Uncle Doug be banned from the christmas lunch? Come on, Westminster and the Labour Party are now related through blood.
Ever since they got rid of militant they have been a New Labour dictatorship. The biggest mistake they made was booting out the socialists from the party. They were the only ones who provided Labour with the broad church and support of the working class. Any talk of Labour being a party of the people is misinformed nonsense.
Labour have always been a party of glorified civil servants in Scotland. Whereby they select who will be given a fat cheque from Westminster. Wendy has a brother in cabinet, how can the Herald claim the Scottish Labour Party will be on a collision course with Westminster? What will happen? Uncle Doug be banned from the christmas lunch? Come on, Westminster and the Labour Party are now related through blood.
Posted by: Robert, Glasgow on 10:39am Wed 22 Aug 07
Los Angeles says:
"And as for the labour party being socialists - what happened to Clause 4? It's in Never, Never Land."
And Ally says:
"Ever since they got rid of militant they have been a New Labour dictatorship. The biggest mistake they made was booting out the socialists from the party"
I think anybody who had paid attention over the last 50 years would say that Labour is a social democratic party. Blair got rid of Clause 4 because it was a nonsense. Nobody believed that Labour was going to nationalise everything in sight and nobody wanted it. As for Militant - they were a bunch of Trotskyist infiltrators who destroyed Labour's chances of being elected for a generation. They were chucked out by Kinnock because they didn't belong in a social democratic party.
I'm not a Labour Party member but surely you SNP guys don't need to resurrect long-gone arguments about 'socialism' to advance your cause? Nobody is arguing for policies like that any more other than the sad Tommy Sheridan and the remnants of his socialist dream party and look what the voters did to them.
Los Angeles says:
"And as for the labour party being socialists - what happened to Clause 4? It's in Never, Never Land."
And Ally says:
"Ever since they got rid of militant they have been a New Labour dictatorship. The biggest mistake they made was booting out the socialists from the party"
I think anybody who had paid attention over the last 50 years would say that Labour is a social democratic party. Blair got rid of Clause 4 because it was a nonsense. Nobody believed that Labour was going to nationalise everything in sight and nobody wanted it. As for Militant - they were a bunch of Trotskyist infiltrators who destroyed Labour's chances of being elected for a generation. They were chucked out by Kinnock because they didn't belong in a social democratic party.
I'm not a Labour Party member but surely you SNP guys don't need to resurrect long-gone arguments about 'socialism' to advance your cause? Nobody is arguing for policies like that any more other than the sad Tommy Sheridan and the remnants of his socialist dream party and look what the voters did to them.
Posted by: Los Angeles, Edinburgh on 10:46am Wed 22 Aug 07
Robert runs around the Mulberry Bush[quote] Blair got rid of Clause 4[/quote] That was only ONE of Labour's so-called sacrosanct platforms he jettisoned. Once gone, what do they stand for? - the same as the Conservatives, that's what. You cannot tell them apart. But we [italic]can[/italic] tell them apart from the SNP. - easily
Robert runs around the Mulberry Bush
Blair got rid of Clause 4
That was only ONE of Labour's so-called sacrosanct platforms he jettisoned. Once gone, what do they stand for? - the same as the Conservatives, that's what. You cannot tell them apart. But we
can tell them apart from the SNP. - easily
Posted by: Robert, Glasgow on 11:18am Wed 22 Aug 07
"You cannot tell them apart"
Er....well maybe you can't, but I can. And so, it seems, can the voters - inconvenient though that may be.........
And yes, the argument is not about socialism or not-socialism, but about whether Scotland should be part of the UK. The voters seem to have a view on that too, inconveniently for some........
"You cannot tell them apart"
Er....well maybe you can't, but I can. And so, it seems, can the voters - inconvenient though that may be.........
And yes, the argument is not about socialism or not-socialism, but about whether Scotland should be part of the UK. The voters seem to have a view on that too, inconveniently for some........
Posted by: ITPro, Breanais on 11:22am Wed 22 Aug 07
[quote]Times change," she argued, saying that [bold]recent issues[/bold] such as terror attacks by al Qaeda or [bold]climate change[/bold] were not around when as a special adviser to Donald Dewar she worked with him on the original Scotland Act[/quote]
Now you know
Times change," she argued, saying that recent issues such as terror attacks by al Qaeda or climate change were not around when as a special adviser to Donald Dewar she worked with him on the original Scotland Act
Now you know
Posted by: RETIRED....... but still switched on, Fed Up To The Teeth on 11:28am Wed 22 Aug 07
I see that in "ROBERT" we have a further manifestation of our old friends, Mike Simpson, AM2, and Jason4Queen, inasmuch as the banal flawed analyses flow glibly from the keyboard.
The saddest thing to happen to Scottish Labour is that in ditching Clause 4 etc, labour lost the in-house working support of the life-long party activists who, whatever their faults, at least gave labour a sense of belief and purpose in what they fought for and that there WAS a better world to be had. Bliar and co. however effectively cleared the decks,losing all these party workers and replacing them with party apparatchiks large numbers of whom were there for no reasons other then those of personal aggrandissement, a fact that the electorate is only s-l-o-w-l-y but inexorably beginning to see. There is therefore no remaining chance now of labour EVER becoming a campaigning party again.
As for the Des Browne vs. Windy Alexander dillemma....this'll come to nowt for the simple reason that Windy has no powers over ANY of labour's Westminster MP's, many of whom are still hostile to the original devolution arrangements far less any further hand-over of powers. This can lead only to a long period of inter faction squabbling within labour Scotland (I totally dismiss any sugestion that this is any kind of "ruse"...they just ain't organised enough for sic a tactic to work....and the serious task for the SNP is to continue to remain focused, don't be tempted to "accident watch" labour's troubles, while at the same time giving the Jason4queen,Robert, and Mike S. etc enough rope to hang themselves. They must be SO, SO depressed these days.........wouldn'
t YOU??
I see that in "ROBERT" we have a further manifestation of our old friends, Mike Simpson, AM2, and Jason4Queen, inasmuch as the banal flawed analyses flow glibly from the keyboard.
The saddest thing to happen to Scottish Labour is that in ditching Clause 4 etc, labour lost the in-house working support of the life-long party activists who, whatever their faults, at least gave labour a sense of belief and purpose in what they fought for and that there WAS a better world to be had. Bliar and co. however effectively cleared the decks,losing all these party workers and replacing them with party apparatchiks large numbers of whom were there for no reasons other then those of personal aggrandissement, a fact that the electorate is only s-l-o-w-l-y but inexorably beginning to see. There is therefore no remaining chance now of labour EVER becoming a campaigning party again.
As for the Des Browne vs. Windy Alexander dillemma....this'll come to nowt for the simple reason that Windy has no powers over ANY of labour's Westminster MP's, many of whom are still hostile to the original devolution arrangements far less any further hand-over of powers. This can lead only to a long period of inter faction squabbling within labour Scotland (I totally dismiss any sugestion that this is any kind of "ruse"...they just ain't organised enough for sic a tactic to work....and the serious task for the SNP is to continue to remain focused, don't be tempted to "accident watch" labour's troubles, while at the same time giving the Jason4queen,Robert, and Mike S. etc enough rope to hang themselves. They must be SO, SO depressed these days.........wouldn'
t YOU??
Posted by: John (Texas), Texas on 11:45am Wed 22 Aug 07
God Help all Scots, Scotland will sink further and further if this Cretin ever comes to power. This is the very same woman who said what has labour ever done for Scottish business when she fell out with labour. People of Scotland please wake up, labour dont give a monkies about Scotland.
God Help all Scots, Scotland will sink further and further if this Cretin ever comes to power. This is the very same woman who said what has labour ever done for Scottish business when she fell out with labour. People of Scotland please wake up, labour dont give a monkies about Scotland.
Posted by: Joe Smithe, Perth on 12:04pm Wed 22 Aug 07
Very clever, Wendy.
While musing about independence the other day, in the light of the 'national conversation', I found myself concurring with Alex Salmond that no change was not an option.
The genie is out of the bottle and something will have to give. Whether that is full independence or just more devolved powers remains to be seen. However, no politician ever won an election by offering people less.
But with the majority of Scots opposed to full independence - and let's face it, that's the case - the trick will be to sieze the middle ground and take up a position advocating more devolved powers.
What Labour need to do, and it seems to be happening, is take that position and push the SNP out to the extremes. The SNP are the party of Independence, so make them argue the case for it.
By taking the more electoraly attractive option - more devolved powers - away from the SNP, Labour are forcing the Nationalists into a political dead end.
Alex's party cannot turn around and say 'wait a minute, more powers is our idea', because then they would effectively be arguing against full independence, something which would their hard-core 'freedom now' support.
Only one day into the job and already she's turning the tables.
Very clever, Wendy.
While musing about independence the other day, in the light of the 'national conversation', I found myself concurring with Alex Salmond that no change was not an option.
The genie is out of the bottle and something will have to give. Whether that is full independence or just more devolved powers remains to be seen. However, no politician ever won an election by offering people less.
But with the majority of Scots opposed to full independence - and let's face it, that's the case - the trick will be to sieze the middle ground and take up a position advocating more devolved powers.
What Labour need to do, and it seems to be happening, is take that position and push the SNP out to the extremes. The SNP are the party of Independence, so make them argue the case for it.
By taking the more electoraly attractive option - more devolved powers - away from the SNP, Labour are forcing the Nationalists into a political dead end.
Alex's party cannot turn around and say 'wait a minute, more powers is our idea', because then they would effectively be arguing against full independence, something which would their hard-core 'freedom now' support.
Only one day into the job and already she's turning the tables.
Posted by: Los Angeles, Edinburgh on 12:42pm Wed 22 Aug 07
Stand up comedian Joe Smithie[quote]Only one day into the job and already she's turning the tables.[/quote] is appearing all week at the Gilded Ballon in the Edinburgh Festival
Stand up comedian Joe Smithie
Only one day into the job and already she's turning the tables.
is appearing all week at the Gilded Ballon in the Edinburgh Festival
Posted by: Los Angeles, Edinburghj on 12:45pm Wed 22 Aug 07
Robert says[quote]Er....well maybe you can't, but I can tell them apart[/quote] waffle, waffle, waffle....
Robert says
Er....well maybe you can't, but I can tell them apart
waffle, waffle, waffle....
Posted by: Craig, Edinburgh on 12:57pm Wed 22 Aug 07
A [bold]collision course[/bold] with Westminster? Oh, the irony!!
A
collision course with Westminster? Oh, the irony!!
Posted by: Joe Smithe, Perth on 1:52pm Wed 22 Aug 07
[quote]Stand up comedian Joe Smithie
is appearing all week at the Gilded Ballon in the Edinburgh Festival[/quote]
Here mate - if you've got something to say about what's wrong with the viewpoint in my post, then say it. Save your cheap cracks for the playground.
I'd appreciate SNP supporters' views on what I've said, not numpties spam posts. I've set out for you how I think Wendy is playing a clever game, and I'd like to see what you think.
But you're not going to get anywhere if you insist on juvenile sniping from your school computer. This is big boys' and girls' stuff.
Maybe you should post on the daily record forum. I'm sure that's more your speed.
Stand up comedian Joe Smithie
is appearing all week at the Gilded Ballon in the Edinburgh Festival
Here mate - if you've got something to say about what's wrong with the viewpoint in my post, then say it. Save your cheap cracks for the playground.
I'd appreciate SNP supporters' views on what I've said, not numpties spam posts. I've set out for you how I think Wendy is playing a clever game, and I'd like to see what you think.
But you're not going to get anywhere if you insist on juvenile sniping from your school computer. This is big boys' and girls' stuff.
Maybe you should post on the daily record forum. I'm sure that's more your speed.
Posted by: Los Angeles, Edinburgh on 1:57pm Wed 22 Aug 07
Joe - there's no punchline to your joke story. LOL. And I've written extensively about the abrasive Alexander. Try reading posts other than your own.
Joe - there's no punchline to your joke story. LOL. And I've written extensively about the abrasive Alexander. Try reading posts other than your own.
Posted by: TheGlaswegian, Edinburgh on 2:26pm Wed 22 Aug 07
JOe SMithe - hehehe, toys right oot the pram... :-) So you think Labour have turned the corner? Well please pardon some of us for laughing.
Chill out.
JOe SMithe - hehehe, toys right oot the pram... :-) So you think Labour have turned the corner? Well please pardon some of us for laughing.
Chill out.
Posted by: Los Angeles, Edinburgh on 2:35pm Wed 22 Aug 07
The Glaswegian scolds Smithie the bairn[quote]So you think Labour have turned the corner?[/quote] this will be the Herald's subheading, a reference to Ms. Alexander "taking the wheel." However, there's no mention what sort of wheel: car, bus, boat, Catherine, cart, mill, hamster ......
The Glaswegian scolds Smithie the bairn
So you think Labour have turned the corner?
this will be the Herald's subheading, a reference to Ms. Alexander "taking the wheel." However, there's no mention what sort of wheel: car, bus, boat, Catherine, cart, mill, hamster ......
Posted by: Robert, Glasgow on 3:45pm Wed 22 Aug 07
Los Angeles - a wee word in your ear. Everything you and your mates say in your oh-so-clever posts is based on the idea that the Scottish people have suddenly decided they don't want to be in the UK any more.
All that actually has happened is that a governing party (Labour) ran a very uninspiring, lacklustre administration at Holyrood for 8 years and that, coupled with unhappiness about Iraq, lost them enough votes at the recent election to put them out of power by a whisker. The people of Scotland did not vote for independence as any pollster will tell you, they voted to punish the party in power and the only way to do that was to vote SNP. You've got a huge mountain to climb to get anywhere near your goal, and until I see people taking to the streets to demand independence like they have in all the other small countries that got theirs, you're living in a dream world. Whether Ms Alexander can turn it round, I don't know, but with the bridge tolls issue already coming unstuck for the SNP and populist spending commitments piling up before they've even delivered a budget, she'll have plenty of targets to aim at in the year ahead.
Los Angeles - a wee word in your ear. Everything you and your mates say in your oh-so-clever posts is based on the idea that the Scottish people have suddenly decided they don't want to be in the UK any more.
All that actually has happened is that a governing party (Labour) ran a very uninspiring, lacklustre administration at Holyrood for 8 years and that, coupled with unhappiness about Iraq, lost them enough votes at the recent election to put them out of power by a whisker. The people of Scotland did not vote for independence as any pollster will tell you, they voted to punish the party in power and the only way to do that was to vote SNP. You've got a huge mountain to climb to get anywhere near your goal, and until I see people taking to the streets to demand independence like they have in all the other small countries that got theirs, you're living in a dream world. Whether Ms Alexander can turn it round, I don't know, but with the bridge tolls issue already coming unstuck for the SNP and populist spending commitments piling up before they've even delivered a budget, she'll have plenty of targets to aim at in the year ahead.
Posted by: George Laird, Glasgow on 4:33pm Wed 22 Aug 07
A PR fuelled stunt!
Alexander fools no one!
Yours sincerely
George Laird
A PR fuelled stunt!
Alexander fools no one!
Yours sincerely
George Laird
Posted by: Calum on 5:02pm Wed 22 Aug 07
Robert, a wee word in your own shell like. You're sounding a tad smug there. The old protest vote nonsense won't wash I'm afraid. If it reassures you to believe it by all means keep repeating it but there is real change happening in Scottish politics and you are going to have to face it sooner or later.
By the way "unhappiness" does'nt cover how I feel about Iraq.
Robert, a wee word in your own shell like. You're sounding a tad smug there. The old protest vote nonsense won't wash I'm afraid. If it reassures you to believe it by all means keep repeating it but there is real change happening in Scottish politics and you are going to have to face it sooner or later.
By the way "unhappiness" does'nt cover how I feel about Iraq.
Posted by: Los Angeles, Edinburgh on 7:07pm Wed 22 Aug 07