Western Isles to lead way in ferry fares trial
A radical new way of pricing ferry fares to Scotland's islands, designed to achieve massive cost reductions, is to be tried first on at least one of the routes to the Western Isles.
It should mean that taking a car from Ullapool to Stornoway, Skye to Harris and North Uist, or Oban to Barra and South Uist, will cost no more than driving on a road of the same distance.
Ministers hope that a Road Equivalent Tariff (RET) scheme, which has been in force on Norwegian fjords for some time, could provide an enormous economic boost to island communities which have to bear high transport costs.
At present, it costs £229 for a car with driver and three
passengers to make a return trip on the Caledonian MacBrayne Ullapool to Stornoway ferry, a total journey of around 100 miles. In a car, this could cost significantly less than £30 if only fuel costs were included, although the details of the RET equation have yet to be established.
In Stornoway yesterday, John Swinney, Cabinet Secretary for Finance and Sustainable Growth, announced details of the preparatory work required before an RET scheme could be introduced to the Scottish ferry network,
The first step is to be a study by consultants Halcrow to establish the most effective and sustainable structure for a pilot scheme. The benefits to islanders would be a fundamental part of this study.
Mr Swinney said ministers recognised the vital importance of lifeline ferry services and the genuine concerns in remote and fragile communities about costs.
"I believe the way forward is to consider the benefits of introducing an RET approach to setting fares in Scotland. This approach would not just benefit islanders by providing cheaper fares but could also boost island economies by attracting tourists and supporting businesses.
"We have moved ahead to fulfil our commitment to carry out a study into the benefits of RET. As part of that study, we will undertake a pilot scheme on one or more of the routes between the mainland and the Western Isles."
The study will initially make recommendations on the route or routes to be selected as a pilot, its duration, the fares to be charged, and provide a preliminary assessment of the potential costs and benefits. A report on options is due by the end of the year.
The work will be done on the costs and benefits if RET was applied on a permanent basis and rolled out to other ferry routes in the Clyde and Hebrides and the Orkney and Shetland networks and whether bigger vessels or more frequent services would be required to cater for demand.
The plan announced in March by Jack McConnell, the previous First Minister, to introduce a scheme giving island residents a 40% discount on ferry fares will now no longer proceed.
Donald Manford, Western Isles Council's chairman of transportation, said: "This announcement is a major step towards the introduction of RET for the islands. The end of the year deadline for the study is a significant move which will allow early delivery of an appropriate scheme. Reduced ferry fares through RET will provide an even playing field for the islands."
© All rights reserved. Reproduction in whole or in part without
permission is prohibited.
Posted by: wee folding bike on 10:33pm Mon 13 Aug 07
CalMac could stop charging for bikes too. Bikes attract a flat fare so a short trip like Cumbrae costs nearly as much for the bike as a passenger.
Folding bikes avoid the charge of course.
CalMac could stop charging for bikes too. Bikes attract a flat fare so a short trip like Cumbrae costs nearly as much for the bike as a passenger.
Folding bikes avoid the charge of course.
Posted by: draffie, glasgow on 8:31am Tue 14 Aug 07
CalMac could'nt run a tombola.
Every, every, every year on the saturday of the island highland games the 9am sailing to Arran from Ardrossan is chock-a-block. this went on for many years with many unable to board that sailing.
last year there was an additional ferry to reduce the waiting time, and this has been sailing most of the season and was sailing up to that week, but then saturday arrived and the 2nd ferry disappeared???
So if you catch the train from glasgow that arrives in time for the sailing there' ain't room, but keep your ticket as the ferry will be back in 2 hours to resume normal disservice!
Wonder what incompetence they'll come up with this weekend on the rothesay games and then the cowal games the following weekend - they always seems to be surprised by just how busy they are!!
CalMac could'nt run a tombola.
Every, every, every year on the saturday of the island highland games the 9am sailing to Arran from Ardrossan is chock-a-block. this went on for many years with many unable to board that sailing.
last year there was an additional ferry to reduce the waiting time, and this has been sailing most of the season and was sailing up to that week, but then saturday arrived and the 2nd ferry disappeared???
So if you catch the train from glasgow that arrives in time for the sailing there' ain't room, but keep your ticket as the ferry will be back in 2 hours to resume normal disservice!
Wonder what incompetence they'll come up with this weekend on the rothesay games and then the cowal games the following weekend - they always seems to be surprised by just how busy they are!!
Posted by: Arthur, Somerset on 9:00am Tue 14 Aug 07
I'm sure you'd be much better at running the ferries Draffie. I suppose you would have a special 'Highland Games' cruise liner to specifically cater for these events capable of accommodating around 5000 passengers?
If you can predict that the boats are going to be busy why don't you (a) get earlier ferry (b) travel night before and camp (c) charter said Cruise Ship and do your own thing?
I'm sure you'd be much better at running the ferries Draffie. I suppose you would have a special 'Highland Games' cruise liner to specifically cater for these events capable of accommodating around 5000 passengers?
If you can predict that the boats are going to be busy why don't you (a) get earlier ferry (b) travel night before and camp (c) charter said Cruise Ship and do your own thing?
Posted by: Andy, Glasgow on 9:27am Tue 14 Aug 07
Well said Arthur, Somerset’s never had a vital ferry service to anywhere and we don’t hear you complaining.
Well said Arthur, Somerset’s never had a vital ferry service to anywhere and we don’t hear you complaining.
Posted by: Olav, Gdynia on 9:47am Tue 14 Aug 07
Why does anyone expect government to run a shipping company well? Its not the function of government to run businesses. RMT run CalMac - for the benefit of crews, not passengers!
Why does anyone expect government to run a shipping company well? Its not the function of government to run businesses. RMT run CalMac - for the benefit of crews, not passengers!
Posted by: draffie, glasgow on 9:53am Tue 14 Aug 07
Arthur, you got foot in mouth?
thanks for your input of sarcasm, just what was needed....
a) the earlier ferry does'nt connect with the train service.
b) the island is very busy at that time - it's the highland games remember...
c) what an enlightened comment.
Arthur, you got foot in mouth?
thanks for your input of sarcasm, just what was needed....
a) the earlier ferry does'nt connect with the train service.
b) the island is very busy at that time - it's the highland games remember...
c) what an enlightened comment.
Posted by: Landlubber, Washed up near the sewage outlet, Saltcoats on 10:07am Tue 14 Aug 07
What about honest competition? CalMac have been ripping us off for years while being subsidised by our money. Their overpriced and substandard provision needs to be reviewed, preferably by another provider. We just nod dumbly and pay up again and again because they have the monopoly on so many routes.
I travelled to Santander recently on a Brittany Ferries ship and was favourably impressed by the level and quality of service, cuisine and efficiency. How unlike the floating glopshop which runs between Ardrossan and Brodick!
What about honest competition? CalMac have been ripping us off for years while being subsidised by our money. Their overpriced and substandard provision needs to be reviewed, preferably by another provider. We just nod dumbly and pay up again and again because they have the monopoly on so many routes.
I travelled to Santander recently on a Brittany Ferries ship and was favourably impressed by the level and quality of service, cuisine and efficiency. How unlike the floating glopshop which runs between Ardrossan and Brodick!
Posted by: CRAGman, Edinburgh on 10:17am Tue 14 Aug 07
£229 down to maybe £30 - who'll pay for this? Looks like a even bigger subsidy to car users yet again from Mr Swinney. I've no problem with keeping costs of fuel, food, etc. down for folk on the islands by maybe using RET for goods deliveries. But island car drivers should hire a car on the mainland instead of wastefully putting it on the boat. Similarly visitors should hire a car in Stornoway if they want to drive around when they get there - personally I just used the local buses.
£229 down to maybe £30 - who'll pay for this? Looks like a even bigger subsidy to car users yet again from Mr Swinney. I've no problem with keeping costs of fuel, food, etc. down for folk on the islands by maybe using RET for goods deliveries. But island car drivers should hire a car on the mainland instead of wastefully putting it on the boat. Similarly visitors should hire a car in Stornoway if they want to drive around when they get there - personally I just used the local buses.
Posted by: Disgruntled, Islands on 10:33am Tue 14 Aug 07
Has anyone even read the tender that Calmac is asked to sign up to for the ferry services? The Scottish Executive dictates the fares, the timetables and even the number of boats that can be used. Calmac is owned by the Executive and don't have much say in setting fares or much else for that matter. Private businesses aren't interested in running the ferry service because the Executive calls the shots. And yes, we all pay for it but we'll have to pay even more if they bring fares down to £30.
Has anyone even read the tender that Calmac is asked to sign up to for the ferry services? The Scottish Executive dictates the fares, the timetables and even the number of boats that can be used. Calmac is owned by the Executive and don't have much say in setting fares or much else for that matter. Private businesses aren't interested in running the ferry service because the Executive calls the shots. And yes, we all pay for it but we'll have to pay even more if they bring fares down to £30.
Posted by: Home Rule for Pertyck, Glesca -thon rauch toun east o Pertyck Brig) on 10:40am Tue 14 Aug 07
About time too! Norway has had RET for decades. Mind you, Norway has had independence from Sweden since 1905 and is now wealthier per capita.
CRAGman, Edinburgh on 10:17am today :
You display your ignorance. Many impoverished families on the Long Island struggle already to maitain a modest car -an essential of Island life. Your blethers about car hire are ignorant fulminations of an urban mindset cushioned from such harsh realities.
About time too! Norway has had RET for decades. Mind you, Norway has had independence from Sweden since 1905 and is now wealthier per capita.
CRAGman, Edinburgh on 10:17am today :
You display your ignorance. Many impoverished families on the Long Island struggle already to maitain a modest car -an essential of Island life. Your blethers about car hire are ignorant fulminations of an urban mindset cushioned from such harsh realities.
Posted by: Disgruntled, Islands on 11:16am Tue 14 Aug 07
Norway as RET becasue its a country made up of fijords. Its completely different from Scotland.
Norway as RET becasue its a country made up of fijords. Its completely different from Scotland.
Posted by: Rob, Ayrshire on 12:29pm Tue 14 Aug 07
If the fares are reduced and there is an increase in tourism and industry what will be the environmental impact on the islands? Fully agree with other posters that goods being transported to the islands be subsidised and also for those who have to travel frequently to the mainland for hospital treatment/visits etc but why should the rest of us subsidise tourists?
Nice to see Mr Swinney has his priorities in place. The length of time it takes to travel in and around Glasgow and Edinburgh is a disgrace and he wants to subsidise the ferries. Hooray!
If the fares are reduced and there is an increase in tourism and industry what will be the environmental impact on the islands? Fully agree with other posters that goods being transported to the islands be subsidised and also for those who have to travel frequently to the mainland for hospital treatment/visits etc but why should the rest of us subsidise tourists?
Nice to see Mr Swinney has his priorities in place. The length of time it takes to travel in and around Glasgow and Edinburgh is a disgrace and he wants to subsidise the ferries. Hooray!
Posted by: Bobo on 12:35pm Tue 14 Aug 07
Why is John Swinney wasting taxpayers money on ferries to the Scottish islands when it could be spent on something useful like the London Olympics, the Channel Tunnel, the Jubliee line or the replacement for Trident. Stop depriving the UK government of our hard earned cash - they need it you selfish John Swinney you.
Why is John Swinney wasting taxpayers money on ferries to the Scottish islands when it could be spent on something useful like the London Olympics, the Channel Tunnel, the Jubliee line or the replacement for Trident. Stop depriving the UK government of our hard earned cash - they need it you selfish John Swinney you.
Posted by: Bobo on 12:42pm Tue 14 Aug 07
Disgruntled
"Norway as RET becasue its a country made up of fijords. Its completely different from Scotland."
Really? Firth of Forth, Firth of Tay, Moray Firth, Firth of Clyde, Firth of Lorn, Pentland Firth, Solway Firth, Dornoch Firth. Sounds like a lot of fjords to me. Plus over 100 inhabited islands with over 100,000 people living on them. A decent well resourced ferry infrastructure sounds like a good idea to me.
Disgruntled
"Norway as RET becasue its a country made up of fijords. Its completely different from Scotland."
Really? Firth of Forth, Firth of Tay, Moray Firth, Firth of Clyde, Firth of Lorn, Pentland Firth, Solway Firth, Dornoch Firth. Sounds like a lot of fjords to me. Plus over 100 inhabited islands with over 100,000 people living on them. A decent well resourced ferry infrastructure sounds like a good idea to me.
Posted by: Bobo on 12:43pm Tue 14 Aug 07
Disgruntled
"Norway as RET becasue its a country made up of fijords. Its completely different from Scotland."
Really? Firth of Forth, Firth of Tay, Moray Firth, Firth of Clyde, Firth of Lorn, Pentland Firth, Solway Firth, Dornoch Firth. Sounds like a lot of fjords to me. Plus over 100 inhabited islands with over 100,000 people living on them. A decent well resourced ferry infrastructure sounds like a good idea to me.
Disgruntled
"Norway as RET becasue its a country made up of fijords. Its completely different from Scotland."
Really? Firth of Forth, Firth of Tay, Moray Firth, Firth of Clyde, Firth of Lorn, Pentland Firth, Solway Firth, Dornoch Firth. Sounds like a lot of fjords to me. Plus over 100 inhabited islands with over 100,000 people living on them. A decent well resourced ferry infrastructure sounds like a good idea to me.
Posted by: Paul, Glasgow on 12:45pm Tue 14 Aug 07
Where is the logic in pricing the shipping of a car by sea the same as if you had driven it? If I choose to take my car from glasgow to london by loading it on a train it will cost me a lot more than if I had just driven it down the motorway. I can only assume that those on islands want the country as a whole to subsidise their decision to live on an island. While I can agree with subsidising shipping food stuffs etc to and fro the island why should we subsidise moving their car back and forward?
Where is the logic in pricing the shipping of a car by sea the same as if you had driven it? If I choose to take my car from glasgow to london by loading it on a train it will cost me a lot more than if I had just driven it down the motorway. I can only assume that those on islands want the country as a whole to subsidise their decision to live on an island. While I can agree with subsidising shipping food stuffs etc to and fro the island why should we subsidise moving their car back and forward?
Posted by: Robert Falcon, Edinburgh on 1:05pm Tue 14 Aug 07
RET is a nice-sounding word for a subsidy. I'm neither for or against subsidies in particular situations - perhaps the outer islands need them.
What I am against is obscurantism - if the SNP wants to subsidise the ferries more - at a cost to the rest of us - why can't they say it clearly?
The new govewrnment is busy making lots of spending commitments - lets see how these will be paid for.....
RET is a nice-sounding word for a subsidy. I'm neither for or against subsidies in particular situations - perhaps the outer islands need them.
What I am against is obscurantism - if the SNP wants to subsidise the ferries more - at a cost to the rest of us - why can't they say it clearly?
The new govewrnment is busy making lots of spending commitments - lets see how these will be paid for.....
Posted by: Bobo on 1:20pm Tue 14 Aug 07
Robert Falcon
All governments make spending commitments. You'll maybe have read today that the Gordon Broon has already made spening commitments worth £40billion since becoming UK PM. So, let's see how they'll be paid for shall we. For this country to be a success it is important that we have a proper transport infrastructure that maximisies the potential of each area to contribute to the common weal. Otherwise we fail to exploit our resources effectively. This is common sense. There is a lot of cod-Thatcherite nonsense about competition and subsidy that is spouted on this board that no-one with the task of making the country work well could possibly take seriously. Transport is subsidised everywhere and in all forms. To see how well managed our islands have been compared with others you need only look at the population figures for Shetland, the Western Isles, Orkney and Faeroe. The Faeroese population has doubled in the last forty years while our islands, particularly the Western Isles, have lost thousands of people. It's a sad situation when people believe that government should sit back and do nothing when faced with areas suffering depopulation and economic decline. Particularly when those areas have so much potential. It's even sadder when people believe that such an approach amounts to a business oriented approach to political problem solving. Such an attitude is symptomatic of political illiteracy of the highest order and a complete failure to understand what the role of government is.
Robert Falcon
All governments make spending commitments. You'll maybe have read today that the Gordon Broon has already made spening commitments worth £40billion since becoming UK PM. So, let's see how they'll be paid for shall we. For this country to be a success it is important that we have a proper transport infrastructure that maximisies the potential of each area to contribute to the common weal. Otherwise we fail to exploit our resources effectively. This is common sense. There is a lot of cod-Thatcherite nonsense about competition and subsidy that is spouted on this board that no-one with the task of making the country work well could possibly take seriously. Transport is subsidised everywhere and in all forms. To see how well managed our islands have been compared with others you need only look at the population figures for Shetland, the Western Isles, Orkney and Faeroe. The Faeroese population has doubled in the last forty years while our islands, particularly the Western Isles, have lost thousands of people. It's a sad situation when people believe that government should sit back and do nothing when faced with areas suffering depopulation and economic decline. Particularly when those areas have so much potential. It's even sadder when people believe that such an approach amounts to a business oriented approach to political problem solving. Such an attitude is symptomatic of political illiteracy of the highest order and a complete failure to understand what the role of government is.
Posted by: James, Glasgow on 1:43pm Tue 14 Aug 07
Bobo are you having a laugh?
where do get your ideas from that something useful for Scottish taxpayers would be spending on the London underground, the London olympics, oh and the ridiculous waste of money that is the replacement to trident? 4 billion on a system that will NEVER be used.
perhaps you should move to England, then you can rest assured your taxes will not be used to improve the way of life for us in Scotland.
Bobo are you having a laugh?
where do get your ideas from that something useful for Scottish taxpayers would be spending on the London underground, the London olympics, oh and the ridiculous waste of money that is the replacement to trident? 4 billion on a system that will NEVER be used.
perhaps you should move to England, then you can rest assured your taxes will not be used to improve the way of life for us in Scotland.
Posted by: David, Western Isles on 1:59pm Tue 14 Aug 07
It's unfortunate to read posts from the urban gentlemen decrying this great initiative which will benefit businesses and individuals on the outer fringes of our nation. Do they object to us ALL having to dig into our pockets to subsidise Edinburghs tram project? Or us ALL subsidising the importation of food from the other side of the world to the detriment of the local food producer? And no doubt they're quite happy to see our island devastated by abhorrent windframs to feed their cities insatiable appetite for electricity...
If you're not happy helping us out, then why should others help you?
It's unfortunate to read posts from the urban gentlemen decrying this great initiative which will benefit businesses and individuals on the outer fringes of our nation. Do they object to us ALL having to dig into our pockets to subsidise Edinburghs tram project? Or us ALL subsidising the importation of food from the other side of the world to the detriment of the local food producer? And no doubt they're quite happy to see our island devastated by abhorrent windframs to feed their cities insatiable appetite for electricity...
If you're not happy helping us out, then why should others help you?
Posted by: steve the barge, Back from Norway. on 2:25pm Tue 14 Aug 07
[quote][bold]Disgruntled[/bold] wrote:
Norway as RET becasue its a country made up of fijords. Its completely different from Scotland. [/quote] Also, Norway pays for its RET by massive taxes on internal flights and some flights to other parts of Scandihooligan land.
Disgruntled wrote:
Norway as RET becasue its a country made up of fijords. Its completely different from Scotland.
Also, Norway pays for its RET by massive taxes on internal flights and some flights to other parts of Scandihooligan land.
Posted by: Bobo on 2:43pm Tue 14 Aug 07
James
Yeah, I am having a laugh.
Barge
I Skottland naar du kjoeper en billet for aa fly, hvor mye skatt betaler du?
James
Yeah, I am having a laugh.
Barge
I Skottland naar du kjoeper en billet for aa fly, hvor mye skatt betaler du?
Posted by: Paul, Western Isles on 10:58pm Tue 14 Aug 07
RET will be a great benefit. Right now I pay £1.05 per litre for diesel. Prices here are generally high. RET will go some way to manage this escalation. On the other hand the Western Isles are a wonderful place to live and a well kept secret. Don't want too many mainlanders coming up and learning this (just joking - I'm originally from Souf London). My house cost me £85K last year but my salary is £12K. You work it out.
RET will be a great benefit. Right now I pay £1.05 per litre for diesel. Prices here are generally high. RET will go some way to manage this escalation. On the other hand the Western Isles are a wonderful place to live and a well kept secret. Don't want too many mainlanders coming up and learning this (just joking - I'm originally from Souf London). My house cost me £85K last year but my salary is £12K. You work it out.
Posted by: Scotch missed, Na h-eileanan Siar on 9:20am Wed 15 Aug 07
[quote][bold]CRAGman[/bold] wrote:
£229 down to maybe £30 - who\'ll pay for this? Looks like a even bigger subsidy to car users yet again from Mr Swinney. I\'ve no problem with keeping costs of fuel, food, etc. down for folk on the islands by maybe using RET for goods deliveries. But island car drivers should hire a car on the mainland instead of wastefully putting it on the boat. Similarly visitors should hire a car in Stornoway if they want to drive around when they get there - personally I just used the local buses.[/quote] Oh aye - use the local bus, just the ticket if you're coming to the islands or leaving with a baby and small children - pram, high chair, travel cot etc etc.
Perhaps he has no idea that folk living on the Western Isles take their vehicles with them so that they can go shopping and get things that they can't get back "home" Tesco.com isn't the same as going into a shop and picking things up and seeing exactly what they look and feel like.
If RET is used for good deliveries, do we know that the haulage companies will pass the reduced costs on?......
CRAGman wrote:
£229 down to maybe £30 - who\'ll pay for this? Looks like a even bigger subsidy to car users yet again from Mr Swinney. I\'ve no problem with keeping costs of fuel, food, etc. down for folk on the islands by maybe using RET for goods deliveries. But island car drivers should hire a car on the mainland instead of wastefully putting it on the boat. Similarly visitors should hire a car in Stornoway if they want to drive around when they get there - personally I just used the local buses.
Oh aye - use the local bus, just the ticket if you're coming to the islands or leaving with a baby and small children - pram, high chair, travel cot etc etc.
Perhaps he has no idea that folk living on the Western Isles take their vehicles with them so that they can go shopping and get things that they can't get back "home" Tesco.com isn't the same as going into a shop and picking things up and seeing exactly what they look and feel like.
If RET is used for good deliveries, do we know that the haulage companies will pass the reduced costs on?......
Posted by: Fiona, Edinburgh on 5:38pm Wed 15 Aug 07
I would love to be able to afford to travel to more of the islands around Scotland even though I don't own a car and use public transport wherever possible!
I would rather my tax money was spent on schemes such as RET than the trams in Edinburgh which will not change things in the long run. Or that money would be better spent investing in alternate energy buses etc...
I am impressed that I can use reading The Herald online as a way to practice my rudimentary Norwegian - tusen takk!
I would love to be able to afford to travel to more of the islands around Scotland even though I don't own a car and use public transport wherever possible!
I would rather my tax money was spent on schemes such as RET than the trams in Edinburgh which will not change things in the long run. Or that money would be better spent investing in alternate energy buses etc...
I am impressed that I can use reading The Herald online as a way to practice my rudimentary Norwegian - tusen takk!
Posted by: Bill Alexander, Sunny Crail on 3:32pm Wed 22 Aug 07
Going to Badenscallie Mid September.
I was hoping for a mini cruise to Stornaway and hopefully some of the
other islands.
Is there any companies other than CalMac sailing to the Western Isles from the Ullapool area?
Ferry is not necessary......then again..........if there was a cheap ferry?
Bill....
Going to Badenscallie Mid September.
I was hoping for a mini cruise to Stornaway and hopefully some of the
other islands.
Is there any companies other than CalMac sailing to the Western Isles from the Ullapool area?
Ferry is not necessary......then again..........if there was a cheap ferry?
Bill....