UK is losing as many troops to Afghanistan uprising as in Iraq
British casualties in Afghanistan have reached almost the same levels of deaths and injuries as those suffered by the garrison in Iraq over the past 18 months, according to Ministry of Defence figures.
The death in action of a Royal Marine in Helmand yesterday brought the toll in Afghanistan to 63 since the start of 2006, just three short of the number killed in Iraq over the same period.
The tally of those wounded in action in that timescale is now 203 in Afghanistan compared with 236 in Iraq, including 26 and 31 respectively with life-threatening injuries.
July has been one of the worst months for British casualties, with four servicemen killed by Taliban insurgents in the past five days in Helmand and six dead from mortar and rocket fire in Basra.
The latest fatality happened during operations in Helmand on Sunday.
An MoD spokeswoman said the Royal Marine's next-of-kin had been informed, but had asked for 24 hours' privacy before his name is released.
The UK has 7100 troops in Helmand compared with 5500 in southern Iraq. Up to 1500 of the former have been involved in a week-long joint mission with 500 Estonian, Danish and US soldiers designed to penetrate Taliban territory.
Operation Chakush, or Hammer, is part of a wider plan to clear insurgents from the areas surrounding the Kajaki Dam, a project which will provide electricity for most of southern Helmand and improve the lives of more than 1.5 million farmers and civilians if and when it is completed.
Efforts to harness the power of the Helmand River and its tributaries have been hindered deliberately by the Taliban, who fear that positive improvements to infrastructure will deprive them of support in their own heartland.
Some of the fiercest fighting in Helmand since 2001 has taken place near the dam as successive UK battlegroups pushed back Taliban outposts, only to have the insurgents return when they withdrew from captured compounds and villages.
Overall British military deaths from all causes in Afghanistan stand at 68 since the first, limited allied intervention in 2001. A total of 63 have died since the start of 2006, of whom 45 have been killed in action.
The comparable death toll in Iraq since 2003 is 163, with 124 classed as killed in action or died of wounds.
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Posted by: Im not here on 11:27pm Mon 30 Jul 07
So the troops go in and clear out the insurgents - and then withdraw, only for the insurgents to return - only for the troops to return to clear out the insurgents - and then withdraw, only for the insurgents ......
And all this to build a dam which the insurgents could blow up as soon as the troops withdraw.
A meaningless waste of lives. Does anyone see an end in sight to this madness?
So the troops go in and clear out the insurgents - and then withdraw, only for the insurgents to return - only for the troops to return to clear out the insurgents - and then withdraw, only for the insurgents ......
And all this to build a dam which the insurgents could blow up as soon as the troops withdraw.
A meaningless waste of lives. Does anyone see an end in sight to this madness?
Posted by: Colin B, Bearsden on 11:37pm Mon 30 Jul 07
Des Browne and his civil servants must take a lot of personal responsibility for these deaths- delays of years getting proper armour and vehicles to Afghanistan, helicopters being sent from the Falkland Islands ( am not sure there is anywhere further away from Helmand theatre ) while other helicopters are in mothballs, lack of ground attack harriers which Browne wanted to remove.
Hoon and Reid cut helicopter orders and Reid's comment about not firing s hot in anger shows just how deluded, badly briefed and out of touch Reid is. Gordon Brown also straved the forces of cash when they needed and Blair denied many of our armed forces the vote at the last general election. Its disgusting Browne and Ingram congratulate civil servants to keep the cash coming form their unions- remember the lies about forces pay, the cockpit video, hospitals, accomodation- all spin and cash before lives. Churchill spent Britain's imperial wealth and put UK into debt because it was the right thing to do to liberate others. The fact is Afghanistan and Iraq Wars have gone on for as long as the Second World War and look like lasting much longer.
The MOD has over 1000 spin doctors now -during the Falklands war it had one- Ian MacDonald -this is Blair's legacy- he's just fortunate enough to be alive.
Des Browne and his civil servants must take a lot of personal responsibility for these deaths- delays of years getting proper armour and vehicles to Afghanistan, helicopters being sent from the Falkland Islands ( am not sure there is anywhere further away from Helmand theatre ) while other helicopters are in mothballs, lack of ground attack harriers which Browne wanted to remove.
Hoon and Reid cut helicopter orders and Reid's comment about not firing s hot in anger shows just how deluded, badly briefed and out of touch Reid is. Gordon Brown also straved the forces of cash when they needed and Blair denied many of our armed forces the vote at the last general election. Its disgusting Browne and Ingram congratulate civil servants to keep the cash coming form their unions- remember the lies about forces pay, the cockpit video, hospitals, accomodation- all spin and cash before lives. Churchill spent Britain's imperial wealth and put UK into debt because it was the right thing to do to liberate others. The fact is Afghanistan and Iraq Wars have gone on for as long as the Second World War and look like lasting much longer.
The MOD has over 1000 spin doctors now -during the Falklands war it had one- Ian MacDonald -this is Blair's legacy- he's just fortunate enough to be alive.
Posted by: Djookers, Edinburgh on 12:09am Tue 31 Jul 07
I miss Blair already, he is a good man.
I miss Blair already, he is a good man.
Posted by: Jimbo on 1:00am Tue 31 Jul 07
Britain's troops are stretched to the limit and the army reserves are outnumbered by MOD spin doctors by 2 - 1 yet it is the intention of the Labour party to cut the army by a further 5,000 troops.
They can spend 25 billion plus on useless nukes, 12 billion plus on London's Olympics and 4.5 billion on two ships yet they refuse to spend a penny more than necessary to properly equip the troops who's lives they are risking in Afghanistan and Iraq.
Britain's troops are stretched to the limit and the army reserves are outnumbered by MOD spin doctors by 2 - 1 yet it is the intention of the Labour party to cut the army by a further 5,000 troops.
They can spend 25 billion plus on useless nukes, 12 billion plus on London's Olympics and 4.5 billion on two ships yet they refuse to spend a penny more than necessary to properly equip the troops who's lives they are risking in Afghanistan and Iraq.
Posted by: jonny bond, glasgow on 2:27am Tue 31 Jul 07
Why do we bother with this war as it seems we are fighting on the side of the druglords. Where does this come from that soldiers are ordered not to burn poppy fields while britain is awash in heroin and there is not a single minister who will do anything about it even though our army is in theatre. Whats wrong with this country we ban drugs yet support drug dealers and farmers in afghanistan.
Why do we bother with this war as it seems we are fighting on the side of the druglords. Where does this come from that soldiers are ordered not to burn poppy fields while britain is awash in heroin and there is not a single minister who will do anything about it even though our army is in theatre. Whats wrong with this country we ban drugs yet support drug dealers and farmers in afghanistan.
Posted by: donald, glasgow on 7:26am Tue 31 Jul 07
Carry on up the Khyber Pass.
Blair and Broon, Laurel and Hardy.
Carry on up the Khyber Pass.
Blair and Broon, Laurel and Hardy.
Posted by: Alan Shore, Glasgow on 9:02am Tue 31 Jul 07
Shame on you - that is a dreadful insult to Stan and Ollie.
Shame on you - that is a dreadful insult to Stan and Ollie.
Posted by: steg, Ayrshire on 9:55am Tue 31 Jul 07
Our new PM could have been a bit more effective in defining an exit strategy for our guys out there. Instead he follows the Tony line of poodling after the Chimp.
It's not just the random killing of our forces but the long term effects of physical and particularly mental health problems which are already evident in those returning from active service abroad.
Bring them back alive, bring them back now.
Our new PM could have been a bit more effective in defining an exit strategy for our guys out there. Instead he follows the Tony line of poodling after the Chimp.
It's not just the random killing of our forces but the long term effects of physical and particularly mental health problems which are already evident in those returning from active service abroad.
Bring them back alive, bring them back now.
Posted by: Lord Huntington, Ivory Tower on 12:57pm Tue 31 Jul 07
These damnable Arabians do not know we are trying to help them you see. They simply do not know what is good for them, that is why we must teach them sending man after man to their country equipped to the teeth.
I would suggest invading Egypt immediately thereby gaining access to the Suez and this will open up the spice trade with India.
These damnable Arabians do not know we are trying to help them you see. They simply do not know what is good for them, that is why we must teach them sending man after man to their country equipped to the teeth.
I would suggest invading Egypt immediately thereby gaining access to the Suez and this will open up the spice trade with India.
Posted by: SEUMAS, TAIN on 3:29pm Tue 31 Jul 07
The might of the Russian bear had to admit defeat in Afghanistan, what makes the West think they can subdue the Taliban who are as determined as the mujhahadeen(excuse spelling) this is a war of attrition with no winners.
Some pundits put a timescale of 30 years on this conflict.
Do we want bodybags coming back home with children who are not yet born.
Get out of Iraq and Afghanistan who were no threat to the U.K. but certaily are now, due to Bliar being conned by the neo-cons inthe U.S.A.
Hope Brown will use his influence with the new administration in the U.S.A. when President Bush is consigned to history
The might of the Russian bear had to admit defeat in Afghanistan, what makes the West think they can subdue the Taliban who are as determined as the mujhahadeen(excuse spelling) this is a war of attrition with no winners.
Some pundits put a timescale of 30 years on this conflict.
Do we want bodybags coming back home with children who are not yet born.
Get out of Iraq and Afghanistan who were no threat to the U.K. but certaily are now, due to Bliar being conned by the neo-cons inthe U.S.A.
Hope Brown will use his influence with the new administration in the U.S.A. when President Bush is consigned to history
Posted by: B. Temmup, The Free World. No Really on 5:24pm Tue 31 Jul 07
Now that the lads are being pulled out of non Iron, let them go invade, sorry look for WMDs, in Zimbabwe and maybe get rid of the nasty infestation lurking there. Sorry again, assist in the implementation of regime change.
Any takers?
Now that the lads are being pulled out of non Iron, let them go invade, sorry look for WMDs, in Zimbabwe and maybe get rid of the nasty infestation lurking there. Sorry again, assist in the implementation of regime change.
Any takers?
Posted by: Robert Clark, London on 5:38pm Tue 31 Jul 07
[quote][bold]donald[/bold] wrote:
Carry on up the Khyber Pass. Blair and Broon, Laurel and Hardy.[/quote] Too true.....
Only difference is that at least L & H had the brains and self-awareness to realise whenever they got into "another fine mess"!
donald wrote:
Carry on up the Khyber Pass. Blair and Broon, Laurel and Hardy.
Too true.....
Only difference is that at least L & H had the brains and self-awareness to realise whenever they got into "another fine mess"!
Posted by: OIiver F, UK on 6:06pm Tue 31 Jul 07
Seamus, you said that Afghanistan was no threat to the UK? Ever heard of al-qaeda? Al-qaeda's aim is a worldwide caliphate under sharia law and they are willing to use violence and mass murder to bring that goal about. Afghanistan, under the control of the taleban, gave succour and support to Al-Qaeda. Afghanistan [italic]was[/italic] a threat to the UK and the wider world.
As for Iraq you are correct. Iraq wasnt a threat to us in the west but it was a destabilising force in the middle east (along with Iran and Syria) and Saddam was responsible for the deaths of hundreds of thousands of people.
Seamus, you said that Afghanistan was no threat to the UK? Ever heard of al-qaeda? Al-qaeda's aim is a worldwide caliphate under sharia law and they are willing to use violence and mass murder to bring that goal about. Afghanistan, under the control of the taleban, gave succour and support to Al-Qaeda. Afghanistan
was a threat to the UK and the wider world.
As for Iraq you are correct. Iraq wasnt a threat to us in the west but it was a destabilising force in the middle east (along with Iran and Syria) and Saddam was responsible for the deaths of hundreds of thousands of people.
Posted by: Seumas, Tain on 6:42pm Tue 31 Jul 07
Al-Quaeda was not a threat to the U.K. until we supported the neo cons in the U.S.A. T he real trouble in the Middle East has a lot to do with Israel who are supported to the hilt by U,S,A even to the extent of supplying them with the hydrogen bomb.
Israel have been ignoring U,N, resolutions for decades, aided and abetted by U.S.A.
This is all about OIL--if Kuwait had grown carrots instead of oil, do you think there would have been an intervention? I don't think so.
Furthermore, we have a horrible dictator in Zimbabwe but he has no oil, therefore he is safe from Western intervention. There is so much humbug in politics!!
Al-Quaeda was not a threat to the U.K. until we supported the neo cons in the U.S.A. T he real trouble in the Middle East has a lot to do with Israel who are supported to the hilt by U,S,A even to the extent of supplying them with the hydrogen bomb.
Israel have been ignoring U,N, resolutions for decades, aided and abetted by U.S.A.
This is all about OIL--if Kuwait had grown carrots instead of oil, do you think there would have been an intervention? I don't think so.
Furthermore, we have a horrible dictator in Zimbabwe but he has no oil, therefore he is safe from Western intervention. There is so much humbug in politics!!
Posted by: OIiver F, UK on 8:56pm Tue 31 Jul 07
Seamus,
Al-Qaeda wants a worldwide caliphate under Sharia Law and are willing to carry out terrorist attacks in the furtherance of their goals. [italic]You[/italic] may not consider that a threat to the UK but I do and I would imagine many others do also.
With regards to Israel and the UN I had to suppress a laugh. The UN is a shamefully corrupt, inept, inneffective and biased organisation. At the UN Zimbabwe was elected to be on the sustainable development committee. The UN needs root and branch reform if it is ever to regain any credibility. In the absence of such reform the UN will go the route of its predecessor the League Of Nations.
Seamus,
Al-Qaeda wants a worldwide caliphate under Sharia Law and are willing to carry out terrorist attacks in the furtherance of their goals.
You may not consider that a threat to the UK but I do and I would imagine many others do also.
With regards to Israel and the UN I had to suppress a laugh. The UN is a shamefully corrupt, inept, inneffective and biased organisation. At the UN Zimbabwe was elected to be on the sustainable development committee. The UN needs root and branch reform if it is ever to regain any credibility. In the absence of such reform the UN will go the route of its predecessor the League Of Nations.
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