Call for halt to flats let out to students
STEWART PATERSON and MARTIN WILLIAMS
A group of residents has called for a halt to further multiple student lets being permitted amid claims that quiet residential areas are being shattered by loud parties.
According to campaigners in North Kelvinside in the west end of Glasgow, rules which cap numbers of multiple occupancy flats are being flouted, damaging quality of life for families.
Glasgow, like many of Scotland's major towns and cities, has been trying to curb the spread of houses in multiple occupation (HMOs) without creating an accommodation crisis. Glasgow's City Plan states there should be no more than 10% house in multiple occupancy flats in a defined zone around the Glasgow University area, with a 5% limit outside that area.
North Kelvinside falls inside the latter zone and residents are calling for a halt to any more, claiming there is already 11% and there are applications for a further five.
In January, Glasgow City Council introduced tougher standards affecting the minimum dimensions of bedrooms and kitchens, and guaranteed access to electrical sockets.
It meant Glasgow's safety rules for obtaining a licence for properties housing between three and 10 people were some of the most stringent in the UK.
North Kelvinside residents claim many of the HMO flats are home to groups of students who host parties and play loud music, and leave litter in shared areas.
Campaigners from Wilton Street and Lothian Gardens are calling on the 5% limit to be adhered to and any further applications refused. They have been told there are 54 households in their defined area, six of which are HMO licensed - 11% of the total.
Campbell MacLachlan, the group chairman, said: "The initial complaints to the council were about noise from one particular flat, but the numbers of those with concerns grew. We are looking for not just a cap, but for some to be revoked. It is unfair this can be imposed on people's lives."
Hillhead councillor, Niall Walker, has been concerned about the situation. He said: "I've had complaints that as many as two-thirds of flats in a close are HMO. Residents say HMO owners care less about the area as they don't live there and in many cases too many tenants in one property can be causing a nuisance."
Other local authorities with towns and cities which are home to large student populations have begun trying to limit the growth of HMO properties.
Edinburgh has increased its "sensitive areas" from 25 to 63, where a limit of 30% is imposed. Fife Council imposed a moratorium in St Andrews after complaints by local people, but later lifted it.
No-one at Glasgow City Council was available to comment yesterday.
© All rights reserved. Reproduction in whole or in part without
permission is prohibited.
Posted by: maccoinnich on 12:26am Mon 2 Apr 07
Choose to live near a university; expect students. Glasgow University has been at its current site since the 19th century, and the large expansion of student number happened in the 1960s. The only thing that's new is the HMO legislation. One of the things that makes areas around universities desirable is the wide range of amenities (cafes, independent shops, etc) that wouldn't be there were it not for students.
Choose to live near a university; expect students. Glasgow University has been at its current site since the 19th century, and the large expansion of student number happened in the 1960s. The only thing that's new is the HMO legislation. One of the things that makes areas around universities desirable is the wide range of amenities (cafes, independent shops, etc) that wouldn't be there were it not for students.
Posted by: S. Grant on 3:43am Mon 2 Apr 07
Absolute nonsense, maccoinnich. Many parts of the city have colleges and universities nearby. Nobody shouid have to put up with inconsiderate behaviour from others, student or not.
The HMO problem is real enough and is blighting many places where a quiet life becomes increasingly difficult. It is not as bad here in Glasgow as it is in Belfast where whole areas are infested with objectionable students. Attitudes like the one expressed above which indulge student gittishness usually come from recent students who don't have to endure it regularly and are probably planning their way to a bungalow in Bearsden or whatever. City-dwellers have to put up with it.
The city council should be ruthless about HMOS and the colleges should be much harder on arsey students who should be kicked out (with no fees refunded) if they can't act like adult citizens.
Absolute nonsense, maccoinnich. Many parts of the city have colleges and universities nearby. Nobody shouid have to put up with inconsiderate behaviour from others, student or not.
The HMO problem is real enough and is blighting many places where a quiet life becomes increasingly difficult. It is not as bad here in Glasgow as it is in Belfast where whole areas are infested with objectionable students. Attitudes like the one expressed above which indulge student gittishness usually come from recent students who don't have to endure it regularly and are probably planning their way to a bungalow in Bearsden or whatever. City-dwellers have to put up with it.
The city council should be ruthless about HMOS and the colleges should be much harder on arsey students who should be kicked out (with no fees refunded) if they can't act like adult citizens.
Posted by: Karen, Glasgow on 6:54am Mon 2 Apr 07
[quote]maccoinnich wrote:
Choose to live near a university; expect students[/quote]
Fair enough, if as a student you choose to live in a shared close, you take on a level of responsibility to the others in that close. You're part of that community.
maccoinnich wrote:
Choose to live near a university; expect students
Fair enough, if as a student you choose to live in a shared close, you take on a level of responsibility to the others in that close. You're part of that community.
Posted by: john montgomery, anstruther on 7:13am Mon 2 Apr 07
come to st andrews and one of the things making it difficult for locals to buy is the number of HMO's. Parents buy for their student sons/daughters and then they bring in some of their friends. also their is no council tax and on property for rent one gets tax relief on the mortgage. this has pushed up house prices no end and made it untenable for locals to live in the town who are trying to buy their first property. This is one result of right to buy from the 80's
come to st andrews and one of the things making it difficult for locals to buy is the number of HMO's. Parents buy for their student sons/daughters and then they bring in some of their friends. also their is no council tax and on property for rent one gets tax relief on the mortgage. this has pushed up house prices no end and made it untenable for locals to live in the town who are trying to buy their first property. This is one result of right to buy from the 80's
Posted by: seaweasel, Glasgow on 11:13am Mon 2 Apr 07
This NIMBY attitude is detrimental to the social makeup and economy of one of Glasgow's most prosperous areas. Glasgow Council should be applauded for toughening regulations on HMOs as there are still many unscrupulous landlords (and seemingly reputable letting agents) flouting them with unsafe properties, however restricting their issue is ridiculous..
While I agree that every resident has the right not to be disturbed by excessive noise, and that student households should respect their neighbours, it is somewhat of a cliche to tar every student resident with the same brush. The majority of students cannot afford to party every night of the week (both financially and academically) and most are relatively responsible. It is also unfair to attribute any disturbance to students, as I have also come across many instances of student friends being on the receiving end of excessive noise from a variety of other residents.
I accept that HMO (specifically student) residents are not angels, however attitudes such as those expressed in the article above are small-minded and don't deserve national press. As mentioned in other comments, Glasgow University has been in the West End for many years and students are an important part of the area's makeup, economically and in other ways, restricting students' ability to live there will not only negatively affect them, but also the residents who are complaining.
This NIMBY attitude is detrimental to the social makeup and economy of one of Glasgow's most prosperous areas. Glasgow Council should be applauded for toughening regulations on HMOs as there are still many unscrupulous landlords (and seemingly reputable letting agents) flouting them with unsafe properties, however restricting their issue is ridiculous..
While I agree that every resident has the right not to be disturbed by excessive noise, and that student households should respect their neighbours, it is somewhat of a cliche to tar every student resident with the same brush. The majority of students cannot afford to party every night of the week (both financially and academically) and most are relatively responsible. It is also unfair to attribute any disturbance to students, as I have also come across many instances of student friends being on the receiving end of excessive noise from a variety of other residents.
I accept that HMO (specifically student) residents are not angels, however attitudes such as those expressed in the article above are small-minded and don't deserve national press. As mentioned in other comments, Glasgow University has been in the West End for many years and students are an important part of the area's makeup, economically and in other ways, restricting students' ability to live there will not only negatively affect them, but also the residents who are complaining.
Posted by: Avril McDonald, Troon on 11:53am Mon 2 Apr 07
Sir
There seems to be a council tax loophole which allows these landlords to avoid paying council tax so increasing the tax burden on others.
If the leading agreement specifically states that the occupying students are responsible for the council tax then the students can claim exemption. No one connected with the flat then pays council tax.
I do not think that there should be any houses excluded from Council Tax, especially those used for letting purposes.
Avril McDonald
Sir
There seems to be a council tax loophole which allows these landlords to avoid paying council tax so increasing the tax burden on others.
If the leading agreement specifically states that the occupying students are responsible for the council tax then the students can claim exemption. No one connected with the flat then pays council tax.
I do not think that there should be any houses excluded from Council Tax, especially those used for letting purposes.
Avril McDonald
Posted by: Jaggy on 2:06pm Mon 2 Apr 07
I grew up in the West End of Glasgow about 5 minutes walk from the University. Since the 1960s, the character of the area has changed completely. What was once a family area with lots of children is now singles - both students and young professionals - with many sharing flats whether multiple occupancy or not. It is not just about the expansion of the university. It is also because many students no longer live at home.
Our close, where we have lived since 1962 (pace maccoinnich) comprises 6 flats plus 2 main door flats. Two of the 6 are occupied by students having been bought by their parents. They are not, strictly speaking, multiple occupancy. One of the main door flats is in multiple occupancy. I think it fair to say that the students in the "parent owned" flats are outstanding neighbours. We don't have too much interaction with the main door flat.
However, in the past, there has been multiple occupancy in the close and it was a disaster. Not just noise, but urine, vomit and the remains of fish suppers littered the close. It was a long fight to get rid of them. For that reason, we always shudder when one of the neighbours decideds to move. The prospect of a bad multiple occupancy is to horrible to contemplate.
I grew up in the West End of Glasgow about 5 minutes walk from the University. Since the 1960s, the character of the area has changed completely. What was once a family area with lots of children is now singles - both students and young professionals - with many sharing flats whether multiple occupancy or not. It is not just about the expansion of the university. It is also because many students no longer live at home.
Our close, where we have lived since 1962 (pace maccoinnich) comprises 6 flats plus 2 main door flats. Two of the 6 are occupied by students having been bought by their parents. They are not, strictly speaking, multiple occupancy. One of the main door flats is in multiple occupancy. I think it fair to say that the students in the "parent owned" flats are outstanding neighbours. We don't have too much interaction with the main door flat.
However, in the past, there has been multiple occupancy in the close and it was a disaster. Not just noise, but urine, vomit and the remains of fish suppers littered the close. It was a long fight to get rid of them. For that reason, we always shudder when one of the neighbours decideds to move. The prospect of a bad multiple occupancy is to horrible to contemplate.
Posted by: Jaggy on 2:13pm Mon 2 Apr 07
[quote][bold]maccoinnich[/bold] wrote:
Choose to live near a university; expect students. Glasgow University has been at its current site since the 19th century, and the large expansion of student number happened in the 1960s. The only thing that's new is the HMO legislation. One of the things that makes areas around universities desirable is the wide range of amenities (cafes, independent shops, etc) that wouldn't be there were it not for students.[/quote] Was thinking about your amenities comment and decided it was rubbish. On Byres Rd., the good cafes have gone (Grosvenor, Gardens, Cozy Neuk) to be replaced with overpriced eateries. The independent butchers have gone (e.g. Sloans), the newsagents and book shops have gone, the ironmongers (Tullys) and toy shops have gone, the grocers (Masseys) have gone.
However, we do have plenty of Building Societies and charity shops.
maccoinnich wrote:
Choose to live near a university; expect students. Glasgow University has been at its current site since the 19th century, and the large expansion of student number happened in the 1960s. The only thing that's new is the HMO legislation. One of the things that makes areas around universities desirable is the wide range of amenities (cafes, independent shops, etc) that wouldn't be there were it not for students.
Was thinking about your amenities comment and decided it was rubbish. On Byres Rd., the good cafes have gone (Grosvenor, Gardens, Cozy Neuk) to be replaced with overpriced eateries. The independent butchers have gone (e.g. Sloans), the newsagents and book shops have gone, the ironmongers (Tullys) and toy shops have gone, the grocers (Masseys) have gone.
However, we do have plenty of Building Societies and charity shops.
Posted by: Meep, Shawlands on 5:39pm Mon 2 Apr 07
I think that a lot of Glaswegians will have very little sympathy for the Kelvinside residents. Considering the property prices and the location of their properties , if putting up with harmless students is their only problem , then they should count themselves lucky. Of course if they cant cope with boisterous international students then they could always move to Easterhouse or Drumchapel. From what i hear there are no HMO's there........
I think that a lot of Glaswegians will have very little sympathy for the Kelvinside residents. Considering the property prices and the location of their properties , if putting up with harmless students is their only problem , then they should count themselves lucky. Of course if they cant cope with boisterous international students then they could always move to Easterhouse or Drumchapel. From what i hear there are no HMO's there........
Posted by: west end resident, West End on 8:20pm Mon 2 Apr 07
Bigger concern is the flats that don't have HMO licenses. Any landlord who is renting to at least three people where at least two don't comprise a 'household' require one. They cost £1900. A quick call to the council will establish which landlords have them and which don't. I recommend any owner-occupier who has to put up with constant anti-social behaviour and landlords who don't care about the environment, to find out.
Bigger concern is the flats that don't have HMO licenses. Any landlord who is renting to at least three people where at least two don't comprise a 'household' require one. They cost £1900. A quick call to the council will establish which landlords have them and which don't. I recommend any owner-occupier who has to put up with constant anti-social behaviour and landlords who don't care about the environment, to find out.
Posted by: Another West End Resident on 10:31pm Mon 2 Apr 07
I can only agree with the problems described by 'Jaggy' in the post above. The issue of HMOs and the problems associated with them such as excessive noise, litter, and often inconsiderate or even antisocial behaviour from tenants is real.
But the problem goes further than this: the proliferation of HMOs has changed quiet residential areas in the West End for the worse in recent years. Glasgow City Council should take their responsibilities seriously when issueing HMO licenses and keep HMOs to a maximum of 5% in a defined area, before the West End as people know and love it changes beyond recognition.
I can only agree with the problems described by 'Jaggy' in the post above. The issue of HMOs and the problems associated with them such as excessive noise, litter, and often inconsiderate or even antisocial behaviour from tenants is real.
But the problem goes further than this: the proliferation of HMOs has changed quiet residential areas in the West End for the worse in recent years. Glasgow City Council should take their responsibilities seriously when issueing HMO licenses and keep HMOs to a maximum of 5% in a defined area, before the West End as people know and love it changes beyond recognition.
Posted by: WE, West End on 1:47pm Tue 3 Apr 07
Does anyone know how to contact the residents group mentioned in the above article ?
Does anyone know how to contact the residents group mentioned in the above article ?
Posted by: North Kelvin Residents Group, West End on 2:44pm Tue 3 Apr 07
Dear WE,
The North Kelvin Residents Group has not yet set up a central email ID. If you could leave your email on the discussion board, then Campbell McLachlan, the group chairman will contact you directly. Many thanks.
Dear WE,
The North Kelvin Residents Group has not yet set up a central email ID. If you could leave your email on the discussion board, then Campbell McLachlan, the group chairman will contact you directly. Many thanks.
Posted by: WE, West End on 4:02pm Tue 3 Apr 07
[quote][bold]North Kelvin Residents Group[/bold] wrote:
Dear WE, The North Kelvin Residents Group has not yet set up a central email ID. If you could leave your email on the discussion board, then Campbell McLachlan, the group chairman will contact you directly. Many thanks.[/quote] Thanks. I can be contacted at tonyc133@hotmail.com
North Kelvin Residents Group wrote:
Dear WE, The North Kelvin Residents Group has not yet set up a central email ID. If you could leave your email on the discussion board, then Campbell McLachlan, the group chairman will contact you directly. Many thanks.
Thanks. I can be contacted at tonyc133@hotmail.com
Posted by: glasgowstudent, Glasgow on 1:35pm Thu 5 Apr 07
The problem with noisy residents isn't entirely a student one, as the Kelvinside group has said. But HMOs aren't even the whole problem. There are 7,000 Glasgow Uni students trying to rent flats in the West End every year and at 10% HMOs there's nothing like enough space.
Glasgow City Council are planning to cut this down to 5%, which seems to be what the NK Residents Group want too. However, if they fully enforced the current rate of 10% you'd already see a dramatic cut in numbers of students.
They're trying to fix a problem they created, but the HMO system isn't currently working and I don't think it's the HMO flats you really want to worry about - you've got irresponsible landlords who are unlicensed and who make up a huge part of the student housing market.
Ultimately, HMOs are for safety. They shouldn't be used to plan where students are allowed to live. And large numbers in a single flat is perfectly fine by the current system as long as they're related. Imagine if you could limit the number of Asian people living in a block, or how many young families moved in? Would that be fair if they were generally stereotyped to be loud/messy/short-term residents?
And this is the WEST END. There's been a University here for centuries, so why not accept that student neighbours are an essential part of a diverse community?
The problem with noisy residents isn't entirely a student one, as the Kelvinside group has said. But HMOs aren't even the whole problem. There are 7,000 Glasgow Uni students trying to rent flats in the West End every year and at 10% HMOs there's nothing like enough space.
Glasgow City Council are planning to cut this down to 5%, which seems to be what the NK Residents Group want too. However, if they fully enforced the current rate of 10% you'd already see a dramatic cut in numbers of students.
They're trying to fix a problem they created, but the HMO system isn't currently working and I don't think it's the HMO flats you really want to worry about - you've got irresponsible landlords who are unlicensed and who make up a huge part of the student housing market.
Ultimately, HMOs are for safety. They shouldn't be used to plan where students are allowed to live. And large numbers in a single flat is perfectly fine by the current system as long as they're related. Imagine if you could limit the number of Asian people living in a block, or how many young families moved in? Would that be fair if they were generally stereotyped to be loud/messy/short-term residents?
And this is the WEST END. There's been a University here for centuries, so why not accept that student neighbours are an essential part of a diverse community?
Posted by: M. Moore, Norwich on 3:18pm Tue 10 Jul 07
Readers of your article might be interested in signing my petition on the 10 Downing Street website which aims to persuade government to take steps to deal with the issues you have idenitifed.
The petition can be accessed at
http://petitions.pm.
gov.uk/StudentNuisan
ce/
and it should be noted, that despite the name of the petition, the terms do not apply solely to student landlords and tenants, but to all landlords who fail to take action against tenants who cause problems for their neighbours.
Readers of your article might be interested in signing my petition on the 10 Downing Street website which aims to persuade government to take steps to deal with the issues you have idenitifed.
The petition can be accessed at
http://petitions.pm.
gov.uk/StudentNuisan
ce/
and it should be noted, that despite the name of the petition, the terms do not apply solely to student landlords and tenants, but to all landlords who fail to take action against tenants who cause problems for their neighbours.
News
INDEX
Comment | Read Comments (16)
