Celebrate Catholic schools, says O’Brien
The head of Catholics in Scotland will today urge leaders of all political parties to follow the lead taken by First Minister Alex Salmond and celebrate the work of denominational schools.
A call for greater support,
by Cardinal Keith O'Brien, is expected to come in a speech to the annual conference of the Catholic Headteachers' Association of Scotland.
Cardinal O'Brien's comments come in the wake of a speech made by Mr Salmond last year, where he set out his views on Catholic schools.
Some commentators have argued that Catholic schools are divisive but, in his lecture
at Glasgow University, Mr Salmond said they should be celebrated rather than "grudgingly accepted".
"Scotland's diversity is a source of strength, not weakness," Mr Salmond said. "For too long the attitude of some has been, at best, grudging acceptance of Catholic education and, at worst, outright hostility.
"All faith-based schools play a significant role in helping to shape, inspire and strengthen our young people to learn. It's time to celebrate their contribution to Scottish education."
In echoing Mr Salmond's comments, Cardinal O'Brien will state: "I call on the leaders of Scotland's other political parties to tell the truth about Catholic schools in Scotland.
"To acknowledge their considerable contribution to Scotland's welfare, to recognise their distinctive provision, to praise their achievements."
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Posted by: zeno, www.thinkhumanism.co
m on 12:37am Thu 1 May 08
Why not celebrate what [italic]all[/italic] schools do for our children and not just Catholic ones? Why single Catholic schools out for special praise? Does he present any evidence that Catholic schools are more worthy of such praise than other schools? No, he does not: because there is none.
He continually slights non-Catholic schools with his carefully chosen words, but he is wrong when he cites the European Convention on Human Rights and Fundamental Freedoms. He says it guarantees the right to have children educated ‘in accordance with their religious, philosophical and moral convictions’. This is oft-quoted, and I agree with this (subject to some limitations) but this says [italic]absolutely nothing[/italic] about state funding of such education. The Government is NOT mandated to pay for such education with the taxpayer’s money under this qualified right: all it is required to do is to allow parents to do so. His calls for state-funded Muslim schools must also be refused.
It would take too long to take his speech apart bit by bit: it is long and full of pejorative language, designed for just one thing: to persuade us that Catholic schools deserve the special treatment and favour they currently receive and he pleads for this to continue - just because they are Catholic. They don’t deserve such special treatment and our society deserves an education where there is diversity; but diversity in the classroom, not diversity of religious schools.
Why not celebrate what
all schools do for our children and not just Catholic ones? Why single Catholic schools out for special praise? Does he present any evidence that Catholic schools are more worthy of such praise than other schools? No, he does not: because there is none.
He continually slights non-Catholic schools with his carefully chosen words, but he is wrong when he cites the European Convention on Human Rights and Fundamental Freedoms. He says it guarantees the right to have children educated ‘in accordance with their religious, philosophical and moral convictions’. This is oft-quoted, and I agree with this (subject to some limitations) but this says
absolutely nothing about state funding of such education. The Government is NOT mandated to pay for such education with the taxpayer’s money under this qualified right: all it is required to do is to allow parents to do so. His calls for state-funded Muslim schools must also be refused.
It would take too long to take his speech apart bit by bit: it is long and full of pejorative language, designed for just one thing: to persuade us that Catholic schools deserve the special treatment and favour they currently receive and he pleads for this to continue - just because they are Catholic. They don’t deserve such special treatment and our society deserves an education where there is diversity; but diversity in the classroom, not diversity of religious schools.
Posted by: AndyBhoy, Vancouver on 7:22am Thu 1 May 08
Catholic schools always get special treatment take Newarthill, St Theresa's continually get temporary classrooms added on Newarthill Primary - brand new building. Special teatment - we've had it for years.
Catholic schools always get special treatment take Newarthill, St Theresa's continually get temporary classrooms added on Newarthill Primary - brand new building. Special teatment - we've had it for years.
Posted by: dt, glasgow on 8:30am Thu 1 May 08
Neither the Cardinal nor the First Minister seem bothered about the pitiful education in subjects like Maths or English so many are receiving. Discpline in classrooms is woeful and both O'Brien and Salmond ignore this fundemental problem. The 'elephant in the sitting room' syndrom I fear.
Neither the Cardinal nor the First Minister seem bothered about the pitiful education in subjects like Maths or English so many are receiving. Discpline in classrooms is woeful and both O'Brien and Salmond ignore this fundemental problem. The 'elephant in the sitting room' syndrom I fear.
Posted by: dt, glasgow on 8:30am Thu 1 May 08
Neither the Cardinal nor the First Minister seem bothered about the pitiful education in subjects like Maths or English so many are receiving. Discpline in classrooms is woeful and both O'Brien and Salmond ignore this fundemental problem. The 'elephant in the sitting room' syndrom I fear.
Neither the Cardinal nor the First Minister seem bothered about the pitiful education in subjects like Maths or English so many are receiving. Discpline in classrooms is woeful and both O'Brien and Salmond ignore this fundemental problem. The 'elephant in the sitting room' syndrom I fear.
Posted by: dt, glasgow on 8:30am Thu 1 May 08
Neither the Cardinal nor the First Minister seem bothered about the pitiful education in subjects like Maths or English so many are receiving. Discpline in classrooms is woeful and both O'Brien and Salmond ignore this fundemental problem. The 'elephant in the sitting room' syndrom I fear.
Neither the Cardinal nor the First Minister seem bothered about the pitiful education in subjects like Maths or English so many are receiving. Discpline in classrooms is woeful and both O'Brien and Salmond ignore this fundemental problem. The 'elephant in the sitting room' syndrom I fear.
Posted by: Awaab Raja, EDINBURGH on 8:58am Thu 1 May 08
I have been the victim of institutional discrimination by the Catholic education system in Scotland.
A number of years ago I applied for entry to the teacher training course at Glasgow University. I was told that I would need a Catholic priest to vouch for my suitability and moral rectitude.
I explained that I was not a Roman Catholic and had no intention of obtaining a reference from a Catholic priest and that I wanted to be considered for the course only on merit.
I was told by Glasgow University not to bother applying as my application would not be successful.
Alex Salmond and the SNP should explain to S[italic]italic[/italic] cots why they support this institutional discrimination by Glasgow University and the Catholic Church.
I have been the victim of institutional discrimination by the Catholic education system in Scotland.
A number of years ago I applied for entry to the teacher training course at Glasgow University. I was told that I would need a Catholic priest to vouch for my suitability and moral rectitude.
I explained that I was not a Roman Catholic and had no intention of obtaining a reference from a Catholic priest and that I wanted to be considered for the course only on merit.
I was told by Glasgow University not to bother applying as my application would not be successful.
Alex Salmond and the SNP should explain to S cots why they support this institutional discrimination by Glasgow University and the Catholic Church.
Posted by: Mike MacKinnon on 11:39am Thu 1 May 08
I agree with the above. It's time to see an end to sectarianism of all hues!
I agree with the above. It's time to see an end to sectarianism of all hues!
Posted by: Stuart H., Isle of Man on 12:12pm Thu 1 May 08
I can sympathise with Awaab. Some years ago, moving to a small community after helping run an internationally famous youth arts project , I couldn't get employed to run an arts project I'd advised on establishing unless one of my references was from a clergyman.
Similarly, on human rights and freedom of religion or belief - try that with schoolteachers if you're an atheist parent. We were firstly told it was 'inconvenient' for my child to sit out religious assemblies but she could sit silent when others were praying. Next thing she's coming home saying teachers shout at her because she doesn't close her eyes or join in the Lords Prayer. Try explaining that to a 5 year old, or getting evangelical teachers to leave her alone!
I can sympathise with Awaab. Some years ago, moving to a small community after helping run an internationally famous youth arts project , I couldn't get employed to run an arts project I'd advised on establishing unless one of my references was from a clergyman.
Similarly, on human rights and freedom of religion or belief - try that with schoolteachers if you're an atheist parent. We were firstly told it was 'inconvenient' for my child to sit out religious assemblies but she could sit silent when others were praying. Next thing she's coming home saying teachers shout at her because she doesn't close her eyes or join in the Lords Prayer. Try explaining that to a 5 year old, or getting evangelical teachers to leave her alone!
Posted by: sam, greenock on 1:54pm Thu 1 May 08
How many non-catholics achieve senior positions in RC schools?
Would the answer be none.
If so shirley this is discriminatory.
How many non-catholics achieve senior positions in RC schools?
Would the answer be none.
If so shirley this is discriminatory.
Posted by: truthwillout, Glasgow on 2:58pm Thu 1 May 08
No further comment required
The Scotsman Schools Guide Tuesday 22nd April 2008.
Exam League Tables under the heading "How your School Performed In Higher Grade Exams"
ONE R.C. Secondary in the Top 50.
1. Jordanhill School
2. Banchory Academy
3. Mearns Castle High
4. Douglas Academy
5. Wallace Hall Academy
6. Williamwood High
=7. Cults Academy
=7. Linlithgow Academy
=9. Aberdeen Grammar School
=9. St. Ninians High (East Renfrewshire) R.C.
11. James Gillespie’s High School
=12. Boroughmuir High School
=12. Lenzie Academy
=12. North Berwick High
=15. Dunblane High School
=15. Gryff High
=15. Portree High
18. Alford Academy
19. Castle Douglas High School
20. Madras College
=21. Balfron High School
=21. Bearsden Academy
=23. Aboyne Academy
=23. Dalziel High School
=23. Fortrose Academy
=23. Grove Academy
=23. Largs Academy
=23. Stromness Academy
=29. Knox Academy
=29. Turnbull High School
=31. Craigmount High School
=31. Greenock Academy
=31. Millburn Academy
=31. Peebles High School
=35. Belmont Academy
=35. Castlebay School
=35. Earlston High School
=35. Gairloch High
=35. Glen Urquhart High
=35. Hyndland Secondary
=35. Kilchulmen Academy
=35. Kinross High
=35. Oldmachar Academy
=35. Uddingston Grammar School
=35. Ullapool High
=35. Westhill Academy
=47. Currie High School
=47. Dornoch Academy
=47. Kyle Academy
=47. McLaren High School
=47. Monifieth High
=47. Strathaven Academy
=47. The Royal High School
=54. Kemnay Academy
=54. Marr College
=54. Sgoil Lionacleit
No further comment required
The Scotsman Schools Guide Tuesday 22nd April 2008.
Exam League Tables under the heading "How your School Performed In Higher Grade Exams"
ONE R.C. Secondary in the Top 50.
1. Jordanhill School
2. Banchory Academy
3. Mearns Castle High
4. Douglas Academy
5. Wallace Hall Academy
6. Williamwood High
=7. Cults Academy
=7. Linlithgow Academy
=9. Aberdeen Grammar School
=9. St. Ninians High (East Renfrewshire) R.C.
11. James Gillespie’s High School
=12. Boroughmuir High School
=12. Lenzie Academy
=12. North Berwick High
=15. Dunblane High School
=15. Gryff High
=15. Portree High
18. Alford Academy
19. Castle Douglas High School
20. Madras College
=21. Balfron High School
=21. Bearsden Academy
=23. Aboyne Academy
=23. Dalziel High School
=23. Fortrose Academy
=23. Grove Academy
=23. Largs Academy
=23. Stromness Academy
=29. Knox Academy
=29. Turnbull High School
=31. Craigmount High School
=31. Greenock Academy
=31. Millburn Academy
=31. Peebles High School
=35. Belmont Academy
=35. Castlebay School
=35. Earlston High School
=35. Gairloch High
=35. Glen Urquhart High
=35. Hyndland Secondary
=35. Kilchulmen Academy
=35. Kinross High
=35. Oldmachar Academy
=35. Uddingston Grammar School
=35. Ullapool High
=35. Westhill Academy
=47. Currie High School
=47. Dornoch Academy
=47. Kyle Academy
=47. McLaren High School
=47. Monifieth High
=47. Strathaven Academy
=47. The Royal High School
=54. Kemnay Academy
=54. Marr College
=54. Sgoil Lionacleit
Posted by: zeno, www.thinkhumanism.co
m on 4:53pm Thu 1 May 08
truthwillout
Thanks for the evidence that what O'Brien claims is utter nonsense.
truthwillout
Thanks for the evidence that what O'Brien claims is utter nonsense.
Posted by: Willie A, Glasgow on 5:15pm Thu 1 May 08
When will one of our politicians have the moral standards to stand up and tell the truth about faith schools in Scotland? Not only is Salmond lowering the standards by scrounging about for the green vote, he's also on a mission to spread RC propaganda.
Discrimination against non RC's is state sanctioned and indeed encouraged by our cowardly politicians.
Can they tell me if one person of another faith working in RC schools is in a position of management?
Are non RC's overlooked for teaching positions?
Are non RC's allowed to become head teachers?
Religious discrimination and it's all state sponsored....shame on them.
When will one of our politicians have the moral standards to stand up and tell the truth about faith schools in Scotland? Not only is Salmond lowering the standards by scrounging about for the green vote, he's also on a mission to spread RC propaganda.
Discrimination against non RC's is state sanctioned and indeed encouraged by our cowardly politicians.
Can they tell me if one person of another faith working in RC schools is in a position of management?
Are non RC's overlooked for teaching positions?
Are non RC's allowed to become head teachers?
Religious discrimination and it's all state sponsored....shame on them.
Posted by: Willie A, Glasgow on 5:23pm Thu 1 May 08
Lower educational results than non denom schools, religious discrimination widespread and falling pupil numbers. Yet we are being fed the Vatican party line, that these schools are superior.
Is there a particular reason for Salmond carrying our the RC church's work for them? We all know why Labour and the sectarian charlatans masquerading as PM's did it, but why the SNP?
No wonder the population are cynical and sick of our politicians.
Lower educational results than non denom schools, religious discrimination widespread and falling pupil numbers. Yet we are being fed the Vatican party line, that these schools are superior.
Is there a particular reason for Salmond carrying our the RC church's work for them? We all know why Labour and the sectarian charlatans masquerading as PM's did it, but why the SNP?
No wonder the population are cynical and sick of our politicians.
Posted by: shortform, United Kingdom on 11:31pm Thu 1 May 08
What scunners me is having the cardinal ramming all this guff down our throats.I have Roman Catholic friends, my kids play with rc kids, we drink together, work together and laugh together. I respect them and they respect me. Why does cardinalkO'Brien try to reignite a problem that doesnt exist? I fear for our wee country to be honest. Please Cardinal O'Brien.Respect EVERYONE and you'll get it back. Trying to antagonise with untruths will only lead to negative vibes.
What scunners me is having the cardinal ramming all this guff down our throats.I have Roman Catholic friends, my kids play with rc kids, we drink together, work together and laugh together. I respect them and they respect me. Why does cardinalkO'Brien try to reignite a problem that doesnt exist? I fear for our wee country to be honest. Please Cardinal O'Brien.Respect EVERYONE and you'll get it back. Trying to antagonise with untruths will only lead to negative vibes.
Posted by: fatzdomingo, Glasgow on 8:41am Fri 2 May 08
[quote][bold]Awaab Raja[/bold] wrote:
I have been the victim of institutional discrimination by the Catholic education system in Scotland.
A number of years ago I applied for entry to the teacher training course at Glasgow University. I was told that I would need a Catholic priest to vouch for my suitability and moral rectitude.
I explained that I was not a Roman Catholic and had no intention of obtaining a reference from a Catholic priest and that I wanted to be considered for the course only on merit.
I was told by Glasgow University not to bother applying as my application would not be successful.
Alex Salmond and the SNP should explain to S[italic]italic[/italic] cots why they support this institutional discrimination by Glasgow University and the Catholic Church.[/quote] Anyone can be a teacher, anyone can teach in Catholic Schools; only holders of a Catholic Teaching Certificate can be promoted in a Catholic School or Teach RE. So.....what's your problem?
Awaab Raja wrote:
I have been the victim of institutional discrimination by the Catholic education system in Scotland.
A number of years ago I applied for entry to the teacher training course at Glasgow University. I was told that I would need a Catholic priest to vouch for my suitability and moral rectitude.
I explained that I was not a Roman Catholic and had no intention of obtaining a reference from a Catholic priest and that I wanted to be considered for the course only on merit.
I was told by Glasgow University not to bother applying as my application would not be successful.
Alex Salmond and the SNP should explain to S cots why they support this institutional discrimination by Glasgow University and the Catholic Church.
Anyone can be a teacher, anyone can teach in Catholic Schools; only holders of a Catholic Teaching Certificate can be promoted in a Catholic School or Teach RE. So.....what's your problem?
Posted by: fatzdomingo, Glasgow on 9:01am Fri 2 May 08
[quote][bold]truthwillout[/bold] wrote:
No further comment required
The Scotsman Schools Guide Tuesday 22nd April 2008.
Exam League Tables under the heading "How your School Performed In Higher Grade Exams"
ONE R.C. Secondary in the Top 50.
1. Jordanhill School
2. Banchory Academy
3. Mearns Castle High
4. Douglas Academy
5. Wallace Hall Academy
6. Williamwood High
=7. Cults Academy
=7. Linlithgow Academy
=9. Aberdeen Grammar School
=9. St. Ninians High (East Renfrewshire) R.C.
11. James Gillespie’s High School
=12. Boroughmuir High School
=12. Lenzie Academy
=12. North Berwick High
=15. Dunblane High School
=15. Gryff High
=15. Portree High
18. Alford Academy
19. Castle Douglas High School
20. Madras College
=21. Balfron High School
=21. Bearsden Academy
=23. Aboyne Academy
=23. Dalziel High School
=23. Fortrose Academy
=23. Grove Academy
=23. Largs Academy
=23. Stromness Academy
=29. Knox Academy
=29. Turnbull High School
=31. Craigmount High School
=31. Greenock Academy
=31. Millburn Academy
=31. Peebles High School
=35. Belmont Academy
=35. Castlebay School
=35. Earlston High School
=35. Gairloch High
=35. Glen Urquhart High
=35. Hyndland Secondary
=35. Kilchulmen Academy
=35. Kinross High
=35. Oldmachar Academy
=35. Uddingston Grammar School
=35. Ullapool High
=35. Westhill Academy
=47. Currie High School
=47. Dornoch Academy
=47. Kyle Academy
=47. McLaren High School
=47. Monifieth High
=47. Strathaven Academy
=47. The Royal High School
=54. Kemnay Academy
=54. Marr College
=54. Sgoil Lionacleit[/quote] Missed the point somewhat! Demographically, Catholic Schools are placed in poorer areas - mainly in the West Central Belt, parents can't vote with their mortgage to move to a "nicer" area with a more successful school, They get lower grants, their weans are poorer, the establishment has done and is doing all that it can to ensure that Catholic weans stay in Catholic Ghettos and cannot lever themselves out by dint of their own intellect. Otherwise why did this establishment labour to destroy two of the most successful schools in Glasgow at their time (one surprisingly non-denominational) St Mungo's Academy and Alan Glens School. Both of these selective schools, (grammar schools by any other name), situated in the Townhead area of Glasgow took boys at the 11plus stage who demonstrated that they were brighter than their peers. From my time there, knowing pupils at both schools, came a large part of the current crop of professionals, successful crooks and some politicians. This mobility was DESTROYED UTTERLY by Labour in the early seventies never again to rear its head. Catholic Schools have done their best to attempt to at least get a couple of weans each year per school into a good degree course and get pelters for it! I have said elsewhere and at another time; Why are Catholic Schools only a debatable "problem" in the West Coast of Scotland and nowhere else on the planet? Or is a bit of navel gazing beyond the biggoted wit of detractors, and why does the Herald co-incidentally, always seem quite happy to give ink inches to such vitriol? If your opinion is to keep the weans of Tims poor and uneducated, that way they don't get to reason that their lot in life is neither fair nor of entirely their own doing! Then just say so. I'd rather deal with an honest bigot than someone who attempts to convince me that they have nothing really against Catholics...BUT!
truthwillout wrote:
No further comment required
The Scotsman Schools Guide Tuesday 22nd April 2008.
Exam League Tables under the heading "How your School Performed In Higher Grade Exams"
ONE R.C. Secondary in the Top 50.
1. Jordanhill School
2. Banchory Academy
3. Mearns Castle High
4. Douglas Academy
5. Wallace Hall Academy
6. Williamwood High
=7. Cults Academy
=7. Linlithgow Academy
=9. Aberdeen Grammar School
=9. St. Ninians High (East Renfrewshire) R.C.
11. James Gillespie’s High School
=12. Boroughmuir High School
=12. Lenzie Academy
=12. North Berwick High
=15. Dunblane High School
=15. Gryff High
=15. Portree High
18. Alford Academy
19. Castle Douglas High School
20. Madras College
=21. Balfron High School
=21. Bearsden Academy
=23. Aboyne Academy
=23. Dalziel High School
=23. Fortrose Academy
=23. Grove Academy
=23. Largs Academy
=23. Stromness Academy
=29. Knox Academy
=29. Turnbull High School
=31. Craigmount High School
=31. Greenock Academy
=31. Millburn Academy
=31. Peebles High School
=35. Belmont Academy
=35. Castlebay School
=35. Earlston High School
=35. Gairloch High
=35. Glen Urquhart High
=35. Hyndland Secondary
=35. Kilchulmen Academy
=35. Kinross High
=35. Oldmachar Academy
=35. Uddingston Grammar School
=35. Ullapool High
=35. Westhill Academy
=47. Currie High School
=47. Dornoch Academy
=47. Kyle Academy
=47. McLaren High School
=47. Monifieth High
=47. Strathaven Academy
=47. The Royal High School
=54. Kemnay Academy
=54. Marr College
=54. Sgoil Lionacleit
Missed the point somewhat! Demographically, Catholic Schools are placed in poorer areas - mainly in the West Central Belt, parents can't vote with their mortgage to move to a "nicer" area with a more successful school, They get lower grants, their weans are poorer, the establishment has done and is doing all that it can to ensure that Catholic weans stay in Catholic Ghettos and cannot lever themselves out by dint of their own intellect. Otherwise why did this establishment labour to destroy two of the most successful schools in Glasgow at their time (one surprisingly non-denominational) St Mungo's Academy and Alan Glens School. Both of these selective schools, (grammar schools by any other name), situated in the Townhead area of Glasgow took boys at the 11plus stage who demonstrated that they were brighter than their peers. From my time there, knowing pupils at both schools, came a large part of the current crop of professionals, successful crooks and some politicians. This mobility was DESTROYED UTTERLY by Labour in the early seventies never again to rear its head. Catholic Schools have done their best to attempt to at least get a couple of weans each year per school into a good degree course and get pelters for it! I have said elsewhere and at another time; Why are Catholic Schools only a debatable "problem" in the West Coast of Scotland and nowhere else on the planet? Or is a bit of navel gazing beyond the biggoted wit of detractors, and why does the Herald co-incidentally, always seem quite happy to give ink inches to such vitriol? If your opinion is to keep the weans of Tims poor and uneducated, that way they don't get to reason that their lot in life is neither fair nor of entirely their own doing! Then just say so. I'd rather deal with an honest bigot than someone who attempts to convince me that they have nothing really against Catholics...BUT!
Posted by: wordjammer, Glasgow on 11:45am Fri 2 May 08
Looking at the just top 50 schools doesn't give an accurate picture of attainment in denominational schools. In January 2008, the Scottish Government published research for the Closing The Opportunity Gap (CTOG) programme which looked at all factors which affect or might affect pupils' attainment.
"A4.173 S4 attainment data cannot be broken down by the faith of individual pupils. However, it is possible to compare pupils attending denominational (Roman Catholic) and non-denominational schools. It should be noted that pupils attending denominational schools in Scotland are not necessarily Catholic, e.g. a number of Muslim parents send their child to denominational schools, and some pupils in Catholic schools are of no professed faith. The data shows no significant difference in attainment levels between such schools."
So whatever the arguments against denominational schools might be, attainment certainly isn't one of them.
My own opinion, for what it's worth, is that while you would never set up an education system along denominational lines if starting from scratch, denominational schools are wildly popular among a large enough proportion of the population to make it almost inconceivable that any large political party would propose doing away with them.
WJ
Looking at the just top 50 schools doesn't give an accurate picture of attainment in denominational schools. In January 2008, the Scottish Government published research for the Closing The Opportunity Gap (CTOG) programme which looked at all factors which affect or might affect pupils' attainment.
"A4.173 S4 attainment data cannot be broken down by the faith of individual pupils. However, it is possible to compare pupils attending denominational (Roman Catholic) and non-denominational schools. It should be noted that pupils attending denominational schools in Scotland are not necessarily Catholic, e.g. a number of Muslim parents send their child to denominational schools, and some pupils in Catholic schools are of no professed faith. The data shows no significant difference in attainment levels between such schools."
So whatever the arguments against denominational schools might be, attainment certainly isn't one of them.
My own opinion, for what it's worth, is that while you would never set up an education system along denominational lines if starting from scratch, denominational schools are wildly popular among a large enough proportion of the population to make it almost inconceivable that any large political party would propose doing away with them.
WJ
Posted by: Alastair, Aberdeen on 12:32pm Fri 2 May 08
If RC Schools are so awful, how come parents from other Christian demoninations, and even Muslim parents are queuing up to get their children into them, or at least the primary schools?
As fatzdomingo says, if you don't like the Catholic Church for no other reason than it exists, why not just come out and say so. At least then everybody knows where they stand.
If RC Schools are so awful, how come parents from other Christian demoninations, and even Muslim parents are queuing up to get their children into them, or at least the primary schools?
As fatzdomingo says, if you don't like the Catholic Church for no other reason than it exists, why not just come out and say so. At least then everybody knows where they stand.
Posted by: sam, greenock on 1:47pm Fri 2 May 08
[quote][bold]fatzdomingo[/bold] wrote:
[quote][bold]truthwillout[/bold] wrote: No further comment required The Scotsman Schools Guide Tuesday 22nd April 2008. Exam League Tables under the heading "How your School Performed In Higher Grade Exams" ONE R.C. Secondary in the Top 50. 1. Jordanhill School 2. Banchory Academy 3. Mearns Castle High 4. Douglas Academy 5. Wallace Hall Academy 6. Williamwood High =7. Cults Academy =7. Linlithgow Academy =9. Aberdeen Grammar School =9. St. Ninians High (East Renfrewshire) R.C. 11. James Gillespie’s High School =12. Boroughmuir High School =12. Lenzie Academy =12. North Berwick High =15. Dunblane High School =15. Gryff High =15. Portree High 18. Alford Academy 19. Castle Douglas High School 20. Madras College =21. Balfron High School =21. Bearsden Academy =23. Aboyne Academy =23. Dalziel High School =23. Fortrose Academy =23. Grove Academy =23. Largs Academy =23. Stromness Academy =29. Knox Academy =29. Turnbull High School =31. Craigmount High School =31. Greenock Academy =31. Millburn Academy =31. Peebles High School =35. Belmont Academy =35. Castlebay School =35. Earlston High School =35. Gairloch High =35. Glen Urquhart High =35. Hyndland Secondary =35. Kilchulmen Academy =35. Kinross High =35. Oldmachar Academy =35. Uddingston Grammar School =35. Ullapool High =35. Westhill Academy =47. Currie High School =47. Dornoch Academy =47. Kyle Academy =47. McLaren High School =47. Monifieth High =47. Strathaven Academy =47. The Royal High School =54. Kemnay Academy =54. Marr College =54. Sgoil Lionacleit[/quote] Missed the point somewhat! Demographically, Catholic Schools are placed in poorer areas - mainly in the West Central Belt, parents can't vote with their mortgage to move to a "nicer" area with a more successful school, They get lower grants, their weans are poorer, the establishment has done and is doing all that it can to ensure that Catholic weans stay in Catholic Ghettos and cannot lever themselves out by dint of their own intellect. Otherwise why did this establishment labour to destroy two of the most successful schools in Glasgow at their time (one surprisingly non-denominational) St Mungo's Academy and Alan Glens School. Both of these selective schools, (grammar schools by any other name), situated in the Townhead area of Glasgow took boys at the 11plus stage who demonstrated that they were brighter than their peers. From my time there, knowing pupils at both schools, came a large part of the current crop of professionals, successful crooks and some politicians. This mobility was DESTROYED UTTERLY by Labour in the early seventies never again to rear its head. Catholic Schools have done their best to attempt to at least get a couple of weans each year per school into a good degree course and get pelters for it! I have said elsewhere and at another time; Why are Catholic Schools only a debatable "problem" in the West Coast of Scotland and nowhere else on the planet? Or is a bit of navel gazing beyond the biggoted wit of detractors, and why does the Herald co-incidentally, always seem quite happy to give ink inches to such vitriol? If your opinion is to keep the weans of Tims poor and uneducated, that way they don't get to reason that their lot in life is neither fair nor of entirely their own doing! Then just say so. I'd rather deal with an honest bigot than someone who attempts to convince me that they have nothing really against Catholics...BUT![/quote] [quote]If your opinion is to keep the weans of Tims poor and uneducated, that way they don't get to reason that their lot in life is neither fair nor of entirely their own doing! Then just say so. I'd rather deal with an honest bigot than someone who attempts to convince me that they have nothing really against Catholics...BUT![/quote]
What utter rubbish!!!!!!!!!!!!!
!
[quote]Catholic Schools have done their best to attempt to at least get a couple of weans each year per school into a good degree course[/quote]
Maybe like any "faith" school if they didn't bothe withe the religion aspect they would have more time to teach the subjects that really matter.
[quote]Why are Catholic Schools only a debatable "problem" in the West Coast of Scotland and nowhere else on the planet?[/quote]
More nonsense, personally I find state faith schools of any kind offensive and do not think that the state should fund any religous school or for that fact any religion or religous establisment.
[quote]Demographically, Catholic Schools are placed in poorer areas - mainly in the West Central Belt, parents can't vote with their mortgage to move to a "nicer" area with a more successful school,[/quote]
Absolute nonsense, nobody forces parents to send their weans to the local faith school, they can send them to the non-dom school if they wish,
[quote]If your opinion is to keep the weans of Tims poor and uneducated,[/quote]
How repugnant...........
.
fatzdomingo wrote:
truthwillout wrote: No further comment required The Scotsman Schools Guide Tuesday 22nd April 2008. Exam League Tables under the heading "How your School Performed In Higher Grade Exams" ONE R.C. Secondary in the Top 50. 1. Jordanhill School 2. Banchory Academy 3. Mearns Castle High 4. Douglas Academy 5. Wallace Hall Academy 6. Williamwood High =7. Cults Academy =7. Linlithgow Academy =9. Aberdeen Grammar School =9. St. Ninians High (East Renfrewshire) R.C. 11. James Gillespie’s High School =12. Boroughmuir High School =12. Lenzie Academy =12. North Berwick High =15. Dunblane High School =15. Gryff High =15. Portree High 18. Alford Academy 19. Castle Douglas High School 20. Madras College =21. Balfron High School =21. Bearsden Academy =23. Aboyne Academy =23. Dalziel High School =23. Fortrose Academy =23. Grove Academy =23. Largs Academy =23. Stromness Academy =29. Knox Academy =29. Turnbull High School =31. Craigmount High School =31. Greenock Academy =31. Millburn Academy =31. Peebles High School =35. Belmont Academy =35. Castlebay School =35. Earlston High School =35. Gairloch High =35. Glen Urquhart High =35. Hyndland Secondary =35. Kilchulmen Academy =35. Kinross High =35. Oldmachar Academy =35. Uddingston Grammar School =35. Ullapool High =35. Westhill Academy =47. Currie High School =47. Dornoch Academy =47. Kyle Academy =47. McLaren High School =47. Monifieth High =47. Strathaven Academy =47. The Royal High School =54. Kemnay Academy =54. Marr College =54. Sgoil Lionacleit
Missed the point somewhat! Demographically, Catholic Schools are placed in poorer areas - mainly in the West Central Belt, parents can't vote with their mortgage to move to a "nicer" area with a more successful school, They get lower grants, their weans are poorer, the establishment has done and is doing all that it can to ensure that Catholic weans stay in Catholic Ghettos and cannot lever themselves out by dint of their own intellect. Otherwise why did this establishment labour to destroy two of the most successful schools in Glasgow at their time (one surprisingly non-denominational) St Mungo's Academy and Alan Glens School. Both of these selective schools, (grammar schools by any other name), situated in the Townhead area of Glasgow took boys at the 11plus stage who demonstrated that they were brighter than their peers. From my time there, knowing pupils at both schools, came a large part of the current crop of professionals, successful crooks and some politicians. This mobility was DESTROYED UTTERLY by Labour in the early seventies never again to rear its head. Catholic Schools have done their best to attempt to at least get a couple of weans each year per school into a good degree course and get pelters for it! I have said elsewhere and at another time; Why are Catholic Schools only a debatable "problem" in the West Coast of Scotland and nowhere else on the planet? Or is a bit of navel gazing beyond the biggoted wit of detractors, and why does the Herald co-incidentally, always seem quite happy to give ink inches to such vitriol? If your opinion is to keep the weans of Tims poor and uneducated, that way they don't get to reason that their lot in life is neither fair nor of entirely their own doing! Then just say so. I'd rather deal with an honest bigot than someone who attempts to convince me that they have nothing really against Catholics...BUT!
If your opinion is to keep the weans of Tims poor and uneducated, that way they don't get to reason that their lot in life is neither fair nor of entirely their own doing! Then just say so. I'd rather deal with an honest bigot than someone who attempts to convince me that they have nothing really against Catholics...BUT!
What utter rubbish!!!!!!!!!!!!!
!
Catholic Schools have done their best to attempt to at least get a couple of weans each year per school into a good degree course
Maybe like any "faith" school if they didn't bothe withe the religion aspect they would have more time to teach the subjects that really matter.
Why are Catholic Schools only a debatable "problem" in the West Coast of Scotland and nowhere else on the planet?
More nonsense, personally I find state faith schools of any kind offensive and do not think that the state should fund any religous school or for that fact any religion or religous establisment.
Demographically, Catholic Schools are placed in poorer areas - mainly in the West Central Belt, parents can't vote with their mortgage to move to a "nicer" area with a more successful school,
Absolute nonsense, nobody forces parents to send their weans to the local faith school, they can send them to the non-dom school if they wish,
If your opinion is to keep the weans of Tims poor and uneducated,
How repugnant...........
.
Posted by: sam, greenock on 1:52pm Fri 2 May 08
[quote][bold]Alastair[/bold] wrote:
If RC Schools are so awful, how come parents from other Christian demoninations, and even Muslim parents are queuing up to get their children into them, or at least the primary schools? As fatzdomingo says, if you don't like the Catholic Church for no other reason than it exists, why not just come out and say so. At least then everybody knows where they stand. [/quote] [quote] At least then everybody knows where they stand.[/quote]
I know exactly were I stand, that would be NO state funded faith based schools of any description.
This way everyone has the same baseline, whither they are Hindu, Moslem, RC, athiest or whitever. Everyone gets the same.
If parents then want to send their kids to faith schools then they can pay for it if they so wish, otherwise if the parents want their kids to have religous teaching then the place for that is in the churches and temples or at home.
Alastair wrote:
If RC Schools are so awful, how come parents from other Christian demoninations, and even Muslim parents are queuing up to get their children into them, or at least the primary schools? As fatzdomingo says, if you don't like the Catholic Church for no other reason than it exists, why not just come out and say so. At least then everybody knows where they stand.
At least then everybody knows where they stand.
I know exactly were I stand, that would be NO state funded faith based schools of any description.
This way everyone has the same baseline, whither they are Hindu, Moslem, RC, athiest or whitever. Everyone gets the same.
If parents then want to send their kids to faith schools then they can pay for it if they so wish, otherwise if the parents want their kids to have religous teaching then the place for that is in the churches and temples or at home.
Posted by: Kenny McGuigan, Coatbridge on 4:45pm Fri 2 May 08
Awaab Raja, Sam, Stuart H and others make the very important point that they have suffered from double-discriminatio
n because they are not catholics. This must stop immediately. Non-catholics can only teach in 'non-demoniational schools' but catholics can teach in both. In the 21st century we have clergymen handing out letters confirming a teacher's religion before he/she is given a job!
The SNP have been pandering to the catholic hierarchy in Scotland for some years now. Indeed, Peter Kearney, one of the media spokespersons for the Roman Catholic church in Scotland was an SNP candidate fairly recently. It is no mistake that Salmond is courting catholics and being endorsed by senior figures.
But the crucial point here which is so often lost - because this issue becomes polarised and slides into a post like the one above: They catholics are getting everything ... - concerns religion in any of our schools. There must be a complete seperation of religion and education. Schools are where we should be educating our children and there is absolutely no need now for seperate schools. Religious people should practice religion in their own time, using their own money and not in schools.
Awaab Raja, Sam, Stuart H and others make the very important point that they have suffered from double-discriminatio
n because they are not catholics. This must stop immediately. Non-catholics can only teach in 'non-demoniational schools' but catholics can teach in both. In the 21st century we have clergymen handing out letters confirming a teacher's religion before he/she is given a job!
The SNP have been pandering to the catholic hierarchy in Scotland for some years now. Indeed, Peter Kearney, one of the media spokespersons for the Roman Catholic church in Scotland was an SNP candidate fairly recently. It is no mistake that Salmond is courting catholics and being endorsed by senior figures.
But the crucial point here which is so often lost - because this issue becomes polarised and slides into a post like the one above: They catholics are getting everything ... - concerns religion in any of our schools. There must be a complete seperation of religion and education. Schools are where we should be educating our children and there is absolutely no need now for seperate schools. Religious people should practice religion in their own time, using their own money and not in schools.
Posted by: Alastair, Aberdeen on 5:37pm Fri 2 May 08
[quote]The SNP have been pandering to the catholic hierarchy in Scotland for some years now. Indeed, Peter Kearney, one of the media spokespersons for the Roman Catholic church in Scotland was an SNP candidate fairly recently.[/quote]
So Catholics are to be barred from standing for elected office now, is that it? Seems to be the implication of the posting.
[quote]They catholics are getting everything ... - concerns religion in any of our schools[/quote]
Just hardly! Just look at how the Catholic position on a whole range of issues has been completely swept aside.
The SNP have been pandering to the catholic hierarchy in Scotland for some years now. Indeed, Peter Kearney, one of the media spokespersons for the Roman Catholic church in Scotland was an SNP candidate fairly recently.
So Catholics are to be barred from standing for elected office now, is that it? Seems to be the implication of the posting.
They catholics are getting everything ... - concerns religion in any of our schools
Just hardly! Just look at how the Catholic position on a whole range of issues has been completely swept aside.
Posted by: sam, greenock on 6:08pm Fri 2 May 08
[quote][bold]Kenny McGuigan[/bold] wrote:
Awaab Raja, Sam, Stuart H and others make the very important point that they have suffered from double-discriminatio n because they are not catholics. This must stop immediately. Non-catholics can only teach in 'non-demoniational schools' but catholics can teach in both. In the 21st century we have clergymen handing out letters confirming a teacher's religion before he/she is given a job! The SNP have been pandering to the catholic hierarchy in Scotland for some years now. Indeed, Peter Kearney, one of the media spokespersons for the Roman Catholic church in Scotland was an SNP candidate fairly recently. It is no mistake that Salmond is courting catholics and being endorsed by senior figures. But the crucial point here which is so often lost - because this issue becomes polarised and slides into a post like the one above: They catholics are getting everything ... - concerns religion in any of our schools. There must be a complete seperation of religion and education. Schools are where we should be educating our children and there is absolutely no need now for seperate schools. Religious people should practice religion in their own time, using their own money and not in schools.[/quote] While agreeing with your post 100% Kenny, I would just like to point out that I personally haven't encountered any discrimination,
I do know for a fact that it does happen, how do I know? well its a matter of public record
Kenny McGuigan wrote:
Awaab Raja, Sam, Stuart H and others make the very important point that they have suffered from double-discriminatio n because they are not catholics. This must stop immediately. Non-catholics can only teach in 'non-demoniational schools' but catholics can teach in both. In the 21st century we have clergymen handing out letters confirming a teacher's religion before he/she is given a job! The SNP have been pandering to the catholic hierarchy in Scotland for some years now. Indeed, Peter Kearney, one of the media spokespersons for the Roman Catholic church in Scotland was an SNP candidate fairly recently. It is no mistake that Salmond is courting catholics and being endorsed by senior figures. But the crucial point here which is so often lost - because this issue becomes polarised and slides into a post like the one above: They catholics are getting everything ... - concerns religion in any of our schools. There must be a complete seperation of religion and education. Schools are where we should be educating our children and there is absolutely no need now for seperate schools. Religious people should practice religion in their own time, using their own money and not in schools.
While agreeing with your post 100% Kenny, I would just like to point out that I personally haven't encountered any discrimination,
I do know for a fact that it does happen, how do I know? well its a matter of public record
Posted by: Kenny McGuigan, Coatbridge on 7:46pm Fri 2 May 08
Alistair, Aberdeen 5.37pm today.
No,no, no.
Peter Kearney is free to stand in elections, that was not the point I was making and I think you know that.
When I said 'They catholics get evrything...' I was referring to an earlier post which had eluded to that; I made it clear that my point had nothing to do with that. I also said that this debate can easily degenerate so that my position is seen as attacking catholics or Roman Catholicism - which I am not. You post is a good example of how somebody can take a sentence ou of context and make it seem I wrote something I didn't.
Disagree by all means. My point about Peter Kearney being a director in the media dept of the RC Church in Scotland is relevant to the point I was making, in my humble opinion. But don't rip a sentence out of context or try and twist my remarks to suit your own agenda.
Alistair, Aberdeen 5.37pm today.
No,no, no.
Peter Kearney is free to stand in elections, that was not the point I was making and I think you know that.
When I said 'They catholics get evrything...' I was referring to an earlier post which had eluded to that; I made it clear that my point had nothing to do with that. I also said that this debate can easily degenerate so that my position is seen as attacking catholics or Roman Catholicism - which I am not. You post is a good example of how somebody can take a sentence ou of context and make it seem I wrote something I didn't.
Disagree by all means. My point about Peter Kearney being a director in the media dept of the RC Church in Scotland is relevant to the point I was making, in my humble opinion. But don't rip a sentence out of context or try and twist my remarks to suit your own agenda.
Posted by: sam, greenock on 8:54pm Fri 2 May 08
[quote][bold]Kenny McGuigan[/bold] wrote:
Alistair, Aberdeen 5.37pm today. No,no, no. Peter Kearney is free to stand in elections, that was not the point I was making and I think you know that. When I said 'They catholics get evrything...' I was referring to an earlier post which had eluded to that; I made it clear that my point had nothing to do with that. I also said that this debate can easily degenerate so that my position is seen as attacking catholics or Roman Catholicism - which I am not. You post is a good example of how somebody can take a sentence ou of context and make it seem I wrote something I didn't. Disagree by all means. My point about Peter Kearney being a director in the media dept of the RC Church in Scotland is relevant to the point I was making, in my humble opinion. But don't rip a sentence out of context or try and twist my remarks to suit your own agenda.[/quote] Don't worry Kenny he does that all the time,
Originally I put it down to "one of these things" but on another thread he done the same to a few posters, just playing(manipulating them out of context totally) with posters words to try and stir it.
As I pointed out to him in the other thread, he's just typical of the hypocrits who dominate religions
Kenny McGuigan wrote:
Alistair, Aberdeen 5.37pm today. No,no, no. Peter Kearney is free to stand in elections, that was not the point I was making and I think you know that. When I said 'They catholics get evrything...' I was referring to an earlier post which had eluded to that; I made it clear that my point had nothing to do with that. I also said that this debate can easily degenerate so that my position is seen as attacking catholics or Roman Catholicism - which I am not. You post is a good example of how somebody can take a sentence ou of context and make it seem I wrote something I didn't. Disagree by all means. My point about Peter Kearney being a director in the media dept of the RC Church in Scotland is relevant to the point I was making, in my humble opinion. But don't rip a sentence out of context or try and twist my remarks to suit your own agenda.
Don't worry Kenny he does that all the time,
Originally I put it down to "one of these things" but on another thread he done the same to a few posters, just playing(manipulating them out of context totally) with posters words to try and stir it.
As I pointed out to him in the other thread, he's just typical of the hypocrits who dominate religions
Posted by: Alastair, Aberdeen on 10:16pm Fri 2 May 08
Kenny,
Close but no cigar. The SNP "pandering to the Catholic hierarchy in recent years" seems pretty loaded to me, especially when reference is made to one of its members having stood for elected office.
As regards the teaching discrimination you mentioned, i.e. non-Catholics not being able to teach in Catholic schools, this is just NOT the case, and when will that FINALLY sink in? It has been clarified so many times, I think the ignorance is bordering on the wilful. The position is simple. Any teacher can teach at the school as long as they accept the ethos of the school. This is quite clear. If you don't like it, don't apply. In what other job would an applicant apply, be awared the job and then expect to be able to overturn the entire ethos of the organisation just because it didn't suit them, and them only? I guess that's what's called the RC Church having things all their own way, eh? Even down to discretion in how they run their own schools.
Sam, as for the tax-pay issue, are you suggesting that RC parents don't pay any taxes? Where would all these kids that go to RC schools go if they didn't have the schools they did, and how would they be financed? Hey, guess what, they'd have to build new schools out of tax-payers' money!
As for the hoary chest-nut the sectarian issue, I can't comment on the situation in the South West of Scotland, but in my street, when I was growing up, we had Catholics and CofS kids and they all mixed fine. The RC kids had their friends some of the time, but not all of the time, the CofS kids had theirs, but everybody played regularly together.
Kenny,
Close but no cigar. The SNP "pandering to the Catholic hierarchy in recent years" seems pretty loaded to me, especially when reference is made to one of its members having stood for elected office.
As regards the teaching discrimination you mentioned, i.e. non-Catholics not being able to teach in Catholic schools, this is just NOT the case, and when will that FINALLY sink in? It has been clarified so many times, I think the ignorance is bordering on the wilful. The position is simple. Any teacher can teach at the school as long as they accept the ethos of the school. This is quite clear. If you don't like it, don't apply. In what other job would an applicant apply, be awared the job and then expect to be able to overturn the entire ethos of the organisation just because it didn't suit them, and them only? I guess that's what's called the RC Church having things all their own way, eh? Even down to discretion in how they run their own schools.
Sam, as for the tax-pay issue, are you suggesting that RC parents don't pay any taxes? Where would all these kids that go to RC schools go if they didn't have the schools they did, and how would they be financed? Hey, guess what, they'd have to build new schools out of tax-payers' money!
As for the hoary chest-nut the sectarian issue, I can't comment on the situation in the South West of Scotland, but in my street, when I was growing up, we had Catholics and CofS kids and they all mixed fine. The RC kids had their friends some of the time, but not all of the time, the CofS kids had theirs, but everybody played regularly together.
Posted by: zeno, www.thinkhumanism.co
m on 1:02am Sat 3 May 08
Alastair said "Sam, as for the tax-pay issue, are you suggesting that RC parents don't pay any taxes? Where would all these kids that go to RC schools go if they didn't have the schools they did, and how would they be financed? Hey, guess what, they'd have to build new schools out of tax-payers' money!"
This is an old chestnut. All that needs to happen is Catholic church control of state-funded schools to be removed. No new schools have to be built and no pupils moved to other schools.
Alastair said "Sam, as for the tax-pay issue, are you suggesting that RC parents don't pay any taxes? Where would all these kids that go to RC schools go if they didn't have the schools they did, and how would they be financed? Hey, guess what, they'd have to build new schools out of tax-payers' money!"
This is an old chestnut. All that needs to happen is Catholic church control of state-funded schools to be removed. No new schools have to be built and no pupils moved to other schools.
Posted by: jazzdrum, glasgow on 10:51am Sat 3 May 08
its time people grew up ! catholic and protestant schools were sanctioned in the early 1900s by politicains as a control mechinsim ie divide and control. I say do away with all faith based schools.
its time people grew up ! catholic and protestant schools were sanctioned in the early 1900s by politicains as a control mechinsim ie divide and control. I say do away with all faith based schools.
Posted by: sam, greenock on 11:11am Sat 3 May 08
[quote][bold]Alastair[/bold] wrote:
Kenny, Close but no cigar. The SNP "pandering to the Catholic hierarchy in recent years" seems pretty loaded to me, especially when reference is made to one of its members having stood for elected office. As regards the teaching discrimination you mentioned, i.e. non-Catholics not being able to teach in Catholic schools, this is just NOT the case, and when will that FINALLY sink in? It has been clarified so many times, I think the ignorance is bordering on the wilful. The position is simple. Any teacher can teach at the school as long as they accept the ethos of the school. This is quite clear. If you don't like it, don't apply. In what other job would an applicant apply, be awared the job and then expect to be able to overturn the entire ethos of the organisation just because it didn't suit them, and them only? I guess that's what's called the RC Church having things all their own way, eh? Even down to discretion in how they run their own schools. Sam, as for the tax-pay issue, are you suggesting that RC parents don't pay any taxes? Where would all these kids that go to RC schools go if they didn't have the schools they did, and how would they be financed? Hey, guess what, they'd have to build new schools out of tax-payers' money! As for the hoary chest-nut the sectarian issue, I can't comment on the situation in the South West of Scotland, but in my street, when I was growing up, we had Catholics and CofS kids and they all mixed fine. The RC kids had their friends some of the time, but not all of the time, the CofS kids had theirs, but everybody played regularly together. [/quote] Alistair,
[quote]Where would all these kids that go to RC schools go if they didn't have the schools they did, and how would they be financed?[/quote]
Your still at it 2+2 does not equal 5 in the real world, maybe in yours it does..
As you appear to be hard of reading, here it is again
[bold]If all state schools were non-dom, all kids who went to state schools would be at tax-payers expense, whither they be RC, CofS, Hindu, Jedi or of no religion. DOH how hard is it for you to understand Al.[/bold]
If someone wants to send their kids to a faith based school, they can pay for it, just like the folks who send their kids to Fettes or Gordonstoun or any of the other private schools.
[quote]Sam, as for the tax-pay issue, are you suggesting that RC parents don't pay any taxes?[/quote]
What utter rubbish, no where did I say that and fine well you know it what an erse you are do you think everyone is as thick as you think they are.
Again you're being disingenuous
[quote]non-Catholics not being able to teach in Catholic schools, this is just NOT the case, and when will that FINALLY sink in?[/quote]
I have never sid that non-RCs couldn't teach in RC schools, I know some who do.
What I said(again you appear to be stupidly hard of reading) was that only RCs can achievve senior management positions in RC schools, that is blatantly bigoted
Alastair wrote:
Kenny, Close but no cigar. The SNP "pandering to the Catholic hierarchy in recent years" seems pretty loaded to me, especially when reference is made to one of its members having stood for elected office. As regards the teaching discrimination you mentioned, i.e. non-Catholics not being able to teach in Catholic schools, this is just NOT the case, and when will that FINALLY sink in? It has been clarified so many times, I think the ignorance is bordering on the wilful. The position is simple. Any teacher can teach at the school as long as they accept the ethos of the school. This is quite clear. If you don't like it, don't apply. In what other job would an applicant apply, be awared the job and then expect to be able to overturn the entire ethos of the organisation just because it didn't suit them, and them only? I guess that's what's called the RC Church having things all their own way, eh? Even down to discretion in how they run their own schools. Sam, as for the tax-pay issue, are you suggesting that RC parents don't pay any taxes? Where would all these kids that go to RC schools go if they didn't have the schools they did, and how would they be financed? Hey, guess what, they'd have to build new schools out of tax-payers' money! As for the hoary chest-nut the sectarian issue, I can't comment on the situation in the South West of Scotland, but in my street, when I was growing up, we had Catholics and CofS kids and they all mixed fine. The RC kids had their friends some of the time, but not all of the time, the CofS kids had theirs, but everybody played regularly together.
Alistair,
Where would all these kids that go to RC schools go if they didn't have the schools they did, and how would they be financed?
Your still at it 2+2 does not equal 5 in the real world, maybe in yours it does..
As you appear to be hard of reading, here it is again
If all state schools were non-dom, all kids who went to state schools would be at tax-payers expense, whither they be RC, CofS, Hindu, Jedi or of no religion. DOH how hard is it for you to understand Al.
If someone wants to send their kids to a faith based school, they can pay for it, just like the folks who send their kids to Fettes or Gordonstoun or any of the other private schools.
Sam, as for the tax-pay issue, are you suggesting that RC parents don't pay any taxes?
What utter rubbish, no where did I say that and fine well you know it what an erse you are do you think everyone is as thick as you think they are.
Again you're being disingenuous
non-Catholics not being able to teach in Catholic schools, this is just NOT the case, and when will that FINALLY sink in?
I have never sid that non-RCs couldn't teach in RC schools, I know some who do.
What I said(again you appear to be stupidly hard of reading) was that only RCs can achievve senior management positions in RC schools, that is blatantly bigoted
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