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   Web Issue 3203 July 19 2008   
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Families who don’t believe in God failed by education, humanists say
ANDREW DENHOLM, Education CorrespondentApril 23 2008

Families who don't believe in God are being failed by Scotland's education system, it was claimed yesterday.

The Humanist Society of Scotland (HSS) warned that both lessons and events such as assemblies in non-denominational schools were largely directed at those who had a Christian faith.

This Saturday, the society will launch an education campaign, founded on the UN Convention on the Rights of the Child, which calls for the humanist view to be more widely recognised.

The HSS will publish new curriculum material for religious and moral education lessons as well as advice to schools and parents about balancing Christian assemblies and visits from ministers with secular alternatives.

Bob McKay, education officer with the HSS, said: "The convention affirms the right of all children to an education that respects both their own cultural values and those of others.

"In Scotland, all parents have the right to raise their children in the religion of their choice, and send them to school in the expectation that their faith will be respected - which is as it should be.

"But no provision of any kind is made for the one in three Scots who have no religious belief. At present, all they can do is ask that their children be withdrawn or excluded from religious activities, which is quite simply inadequate and unfair."

Mr McKay said the HSS wanted equal respect for convictions of humanists and a recognition of the legitimacy of their ethical stance.

Novelist Christopher Brookmyre yesterday lent his support to the campaign, but courted controversy by referring to the Holy Trinity.

"Children necessarily must invest the sincerest trust in what their teachers tell them. Thus the same institution that tells them one plus one equals two should not then be telling them that three persons add up to one God," he said.

Michael McGrath, director of the Scottish Catholic Education Service, said: "Children in all schools in Scotland are taught to respect the beliefs, cultures and traditions of all the great world faiths. They also learn to respect all people, whether they subscribe to a religious tradition or not.

"It is unfortunate that some representatives of other - non-religious - stances seek to define their own views by disparaging the religious beliefs of others, such as the Mystery of the Trinity. It is also insulting to people of faith to see religion characterised as a form of imprisonment' from which children must be set free. This kind of language hardly helps to build a more tolerant and respectful society."

Morag Mylne, convener of the Church of Scotland's church and society council, added: "There appears to be a blurring between religious and moral education and religious observance. It is not the case that other belief systems that don't hold with the Christian faith are currently ignored."


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Posted by: zeno, www.thinkhumanism.co m on 7:53am Wed 23 Apr 08
Why does Michael McGrath see the slightest comment on religious beliefs as disparaging them? All that Brookmyer said is that there are those of us for whom the trinity is meaningless nonsense. This is a fact and it is not 'courting controversy' as your article claims. In fact, this shows just how little tolerance there is in some quarters for Humanist views and puts McGrath in a very poor light - particularly galling when he tries to talk about tolerance. What McGrath does not seem to see is that legitimate criticism of religion is entirely different from not respecting those that hold those views.

As a Humanist, I do find many aspects of religious belief utter nonsense, but that certainly does not mean that I have no respect those that hold them.
Posted by: Alistair, Edinburgh on 10:04am Wed 23 Apr 08
I have to agree with Zeno. McGrath is entitled to claim that the Trinity is a fact. I am entitled to claim it is fantasy. Let's submit it to the test of evidence........!

Mr McGrath would like to see a system where all children are forcefed superstition and belief without evidence. Schools should be places where children learn to make up their own minds, so of course children must be rescued from being forcefed mumbo jumbo as fact.

And what's all this talk from the SCES about how religion teaches respect for the views of others? If Bishop Joseph Devine is anything to go by, then the teaching isn't working!!



Posted by: sianmac, Aberdeenshire on 11:00am Wed 23 Apr 08
These religious representatives seem to miss the point being made by the Humanists...it is great that children are being taught about all religions, but I think it is right that they are also made aware that "no religion" is an acceptable option.
Posted by: actvj, glasgow on 11:45am Wed 23 Apr 08
Does God believe in Athiests?
Posted by: Jim Silverton, USA on 3:16pm Wed 23 Apr 08
My high school education was in Scotland and, even if I did not have to attend religious education classes, there was a Presbyterian bias to classes like history. I believe the resulting attitude of scepticism to proclaimed wisdom was valuable to someone who became a scientist.
Posted by: Mark fae Partick, Glasgow on 8:41pm Wed 23 Apr 08
Old joke.

An Athiest standing in his garden when all of a sudden the heavens open, a lage hand points him directly in the face and a booming voice delares "Athieism is the true religion".

To which yer fella replies, "I don't believe you"
Posted by: Alan C., Shetland on 9:12pm Wed 23 Apr 08
I hope I live long enough to see the end of sectarian schools, teaching children lies should no longer be tolerated.
Posted by: jwilts, Fife on 10:55pm Wed 23 Apr 08

Michael McGrath said: "Children in all schools in Scotland are taught to respect the beliefs, cultures and traditions of all the great world faiths."

In what sense can two world faiths be "Great" if they contradict each other? Why should we teach that both such sets of ideas are worthy of equal respect when logic demands that at least one of them must be wrong.

By all means let's teach that people should be respected but, as Zeno said, we should encourage "legitimate criticism of religion" just as we encourage legitimate criticism of science.

There are many incompatible religions that some describe as "great". However, whilst there is a lot of very healthy "noise" in the fringes, there seems to be only one truly great science.

As Pope John Paul II said:

"Truth cannot contradict truth"

and that is what we should teach.






Posted by: Usconbuts, Glasgow on 2:17am Thu 24 Apr 08
Michael McGrath deplores those who "disparage the Mystery of the Trinity"!

In 1697 Thomas Aikenhead, a student in Edinburgh, was put to death (by Protestants in this case) for stating:

"That the Holy Scriptures were stuffed with such madness, nonsense, and contradictions, that he admired the stupidity of the world in being so long deluded by them: That he rejected the mystery of the Trinity as unworthy of refutation; and scoffed at the incarnation of Christ."

Aikenhead's martyrdom has won me the right to disparage what I perceive to be nonsense, and I will exercise that right. You might as well defend the Mystery that the world is a disc resting on the back of a giant turtle.

How can I respect preposterous ideas, passed on from one generation to the next by social conditioning? Why should I?

Respecting the rights of people to believe such things is another matter.

See http://www.geocities
.com/pharsea/RightsO
fWrong.html

Until Vatican 2, the Catholic Church took 'the following simple and easy to understand position "Error has no rights"'. And until 1966 it maintained an "Index of Forbidden Books". Respect? When the Church was strong it behaved autocratically; now it's weak, and pleads for mutual respect, except of course where same-sex partnerships, contraception, and other matters affecting its bizarre sexual taboos are concerned.
Posted by: Usconbuts, Glasgow on 4:19am Thu 24 Apr 08
Or, as Voltaire put it:

Anyone who has the power to make you believe absurdities has the power to make you commit injustices.
Posted by: lewist, Highland on 8:21am Thu 24 Apr 08
Children have to learn what life's choices are. Thus we have to hope that all schools will take on board the fact that from an early age children should know that many people live full and good lives without recourse to superstition or religion, and that this is a choice they also have.

Let's hope this is a successful initiative from the HSS.
Posted by: sam, greenock on 9:42pm Thu 24 Apr 08
Usconbuts wrote:
Michael McGrath deplores those who "disparage the Mystery of the Trinity"! In 1697 Thomas Aikenhead, a student in Edinburgh, was put to death (by Protestants in this case) for stating: "That the Holy Scriptures were stuffed with such madness, nonsense, and contradictions, that he admired the stupidity of the world in being so long deluded by them: That he rejected the mystery of the Trinity as unworthy of refutation; and scoffed at the incarnation of Christ." Aikenhead's martyrdom has won me the right to disparage what I perceive to be nonsense, and I will exercise that right. You might as well defend the Mystery that the world is a disc resting on the back of a giant turtle. How can I respect preposterous ideas, passed on from one generation to the next by social conditioning? Why should I? Respecting the rights of people to believe such things is another matter. See http://www.geocities .com/pharsea/RightsO fWrong.html Until Vatican 2, the Catholic Church took 'the following simple and easy to understand position "Error has no rights"'. And until 1966 it maintained an "Index of Forbidden Books". Respect? When the Church was strong it behaved autocratically; now it's weak, and pleads for mutual respect, except of course where same-sex partnerships, contraception, and other matters affecting its bizarre sexual taboos are concerned.
You might as well defend the Mystery that the world is a disc resting on the back of a giant turtle.


You mean it isn't?
Posted by: Usconbuts, Glasgow on 10:01pm Thu 24 Apr 08
Sam

It's whatever you say it is. Would I disparage your Mysteries? Heaven forbid. Just mind you don't fall off the edge!
Posted by: Ronnie `Somerville on 8:08am Fri 25 Apr 08
I cannot give Bishop Devine's faith the respect he wants. Like Mr Brookmyre I think it is a lot of baloney.

I respect Mr Devine's right to believe in baloney.

But I think religionists are a wee bit scared of an education system that would allow children to laugh at , let's say , the notion of the Holy Trinity, as say a Catholic might quietly chuckle at a Cargo Cult.
Posted by: Usconbuts, Glasgow on 3:43pm Fri 25 Apr 08
Ronnie

Cargo Cults promise their devotees planeloads of goodies. At least we know that such things exist. The Abrahamic religions promise an eternity of life after death, either of reward or punishment, but we don 't know this exists. When people die all we know is that their bodies moulder quietly away.

In this sense the Cargo Cults are no less rational than Christianity or Islam, and the evidence for them is infinitely better.
Posted by: sam, greenock on 3:57pm Fri 25 Apr 08
Usconbuts wrote:
Sam It's whatever you say it is. Would I disparage your Mysteries? Heaven forbid. Just mind you don't fall off the edge!
Would that be the edge of reason?
Posted by: Corrupt EU, Fife on 8:59pm Sat 26 Apr 08
Humanists? Satanic scum! We shouldn't give these people preferential treatment.
Posted by: marjomatt, edinburgh on 1:44am Sun 27 Apr 08
Every child should be told the truth from an early age - that there are many people who believe in many gods, many people who believe in one god, and many people who do not believe in any god.
This is what I told my son - and told him truthfully that Gran and Grandpa believed in a god but that Mummy did not believe in a god and that he should make up his own mind when he was older.
Are the believers so afraid of this approach that they will not allow children to learn about the possibility of disbelief? And that it is possible to be good without god?
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