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Motorists warned of 20p a litre fuel price rise
WILLIAM TINNING
and SIMON BAIN
Motorists are facing further misery after a warning that the continuing surge in crude oil prices to record levels could add another 20p to a litre of petrol and diesel at the pumps within weeks.
The forecast from the Institute of Advanced Motorists came as new figures showed car sales were tumbling in the face of rocketing fuel prices and a slump in consumer confidence.
The prediction could spell especially bad news for rural and remote parts of Scotland where people are more dependent on their cars.
In recent weeks diesel in some parts of the Highlands, which accounts for 25% of Scotland's
A-class roads, was 14p a litre over than the national average.
Last month, the average price for diesel in the UK broke the £6 a gallon mark for the first time.
The dire warnings come amid fresh signs of a crisis in the High Street with John Lewis following on from Marks & Spencer in reporting a serious fall in sales.
Fuel prices rose to another record level at the pumps yesterday with unleaded petrol costing an average of 119p a litre and diesel costing an average of 132.4p a litre, according to the IAM Motoring Trust which monitors prices daily.
Yesterday the price of crude oil stood at $144.10 a barrel.
Prime Minister Gordon Brown signalled on Thursday that a planned 2p rise in petrol duty in the autumn will be dropped.
IAM Motoring Trust director Tim Shallcross yesterday said that the surge in oil prices in recent days had yet to feed through to the pumps.
He said: "If crude prices stay around their current level, we could well see another 20p on a litre over the coming month."
He added that petrol retailers had not passed on the full cost of the 100% rise in crude prices over the 12 months to the end of June. If they had, he said, unleaded would already be at 140p a litre on average and diesel 150p, with further rises to come.
Douglas Robertson, chief executive of the Scottish Motor Trade Association, which represents petrol retailers north of the border, said: "An increase of 20p a litre in the next few weeks is quite possible and would be really bad news for people who are dependent on their car for work and for other essential travel."
Alasdair Allan, SNP MSP for the Western Isles, who secured a Holyrood members' debate into fuel costs in May, said: "Already in the Western Isles we have the highest fuel prices in Europe. We can't take any more pain. We don't have a public transport alternative. We would
benefit from a fuel price regulator of the kind that Labour MPs have rejected in Westsminster this week."
Warnings of higher fuel prices came as the Society of Motor Manufacturers and Traders (SMMT) said car sales totalled 209,000 last month - a 6.1% fall from May, and the steepest decline so far this year. Private (non-fleet) sales fell by 12%.
SMMT chief executive Paul Everitt said: "We are now seeing concerns about rising fuel bills and household costs dampening consumer confidence, leading to slower demand for new cars."
He said the rising price of fuel had encouraged people to change to smaller cars.
Meanwhile, the gloom across the High Street deepened yesterday when department store chain John Lewis said sales are running at 8% below their level a year ago.
It followed a warning two days earlier from the UK's premier retailer Marks & Spencer that its sales were down by almost 6%.
The three Scottish stores of John Lewis are seeing falls of around 4% in Aberdeen, 5% in Edinburgh, and 9% in Glasgow, although the group's Waitrose supermarkets across the UK are recording higher sales figures, largely thanks to the higher food prices on the shelves. Worst-hit were the big out-of-town John Lewis stores such as Bluewater in Kent, where sales are running at 25% below last year's level.
Freddie George, a retail analyst at City brokers Seymour Pierce, said the cost of petrol and economic worries meant the big malls were perhaps "being viewed as not attractive places to visit during the summer".
In the John Lewis stores, big ticket items such as washing machines and sofas have been among the main casualties of the consumer spending squeeze. In the week to June 27, electrical and home technology sales were the biggest fallers, down 16%, with home items 13% lower.
The rise in the cost of living over the past five years means that the average household is 15% worse off, according to an annual "discretionary income" study by accountants Ernst & Young, who predict that rising bills mean that "the worst could be yet to come".
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Posted by: Jimbo on 11:33pm Fri 4 Jul 08
Motorists warned of 20p a litre fuel price rise...
15.5p of which will go to the treasury.
Motorists warned of 20p a litre fuel price rise...
15.5p of which will go to the treasury.
Posted by: soloman, Stirling on 11:53pm Fri 4 Jul 08
Motorists warned of 20p a litre fuel price rise...
15.5p of which will go to the treasury.
X
millions of litres a day = Lots of cash to continue the occupation of other countries while the people of the former UK suffer hardship.
IF LIKE ME YOU DON'T WANT ANY MORE UNION DIVIDENDS.
VOTE SNP
INDEPENDENCE FOR SCOTLANDS PEOPLE.
Motorists warned of 20p a litre fuel price rise...
15.5p of which will go to the treasury.
X
millions of litres a day = Lots of cash to continue the occupation of other countries while the people of the former UK suffer hardship.
IF LIKE ME YOU DON'T WANT ANY MORE UNION DIVIDENDS.
VOTE SNP
INDEPENDENCE FOR SCOTLANDS PEOPLE.
Posted by: stonehaven on 11:53pm Fri 4 Jul 08
[quote][bold]Jimbo[/bold] wrote:
Motorists warned of 20p a litre fuel price rise...
15.5p of which will go to the treasury.[/quote] Just so
Jimbo wrote:
Motorists warned of 20p a litre fuel price rise...
15.5p of which will go to the treasury.
Just so
Posted by: LM, Scotland on 11:55pm Fri 4 Jul 08
More reason for a better integrated public transport system - such as trams etc that Edinburgh are getting. Cars are a luxury for many of us (I concede that those living in the country are disadvantaged) - but many of the urban dwellers do not need to use their cars - but laziness and a disregard for the environment is the main problem.
More reason for a better integrated public transport system - such as trams etc that Edinburgh are getting. Cars are a luxury for many of us (I concede that those living in the country are disadvantaged) - but many of the urban dwellers do not need to use their cars - but laziness and a disregard for the environment is the main problem.
Posted by: Kiera Hardie on 12:06am Sat 5 Jul 08
Soloman, are you saying that the SNP is promising that if the Union was ended drivers would not have to pay fuel duty at present rates? Or are you just havering?
Personally, I think it would be good for car drivers to pay more tax at rates that make them stop making unnecsssary car journeys. There are more cars on the road now than ever before. That means more people can afford to drive than ever before.
So if high taxes on top of high prices for petrol reduce that to, say, even 1995 levels, how is that so bad? More cash to put into public services, and buy shiny new aircraft carriers.
No doubt the separate Scottish Navy would use the money to buy fisheries protection gunboats to fend off the Spanish fleet.
Soloman, are you saying that the SNP is promising that if the Union was ended drivers would not have to pay fuel duty at present rates? Or are you just havering?
Personally, I think it would be good for car drivers to pay more tax at rates that make them stop making unnecsssary car journeys. There are more cars on the road now than ever before. That means more people can afford to drive than ever before.
So if high taxes on top of high prices for petrol reduce that to, say, even 1995 levels, how is that so bad? More cash to put into public services, and buy shiny new aircraft carriers.
No doubt the separate Scottish Navy would use the money to buy fisheries protection gunboats to fend off the Spanish fleet.
Posted by: willie mac, Arden on 12:07am Sat 5 Jul 08
All these fuel increases - a windfall for Mr Browns's treasury.
Labour will tax thie economy to a standstill.
For every penny increase in petrol Gordon Browns treasury adds another five.
What a heady mix as the UK's biggest builders go down the pan.
Yahoo, prudence brothers.
All these fuel increases - a windfall for Mr Browns's treasury.
Labour will tax thie economy to a standstill.
For every penny increase in petrol Gordon Browns treasury adds another five.
What a heady mix as the UK's biggest builders go down the pan.
Yahoo, prudence brothers.
Posted by: Kiera Hardie on 12:10am Sat 5 Jul 08
Another thing - what is the Institute of Advanced Motorists up to, doing scarey economic forecasting? Their usual business involves men in string backed driving gloves and car coats showing people how to drive as if it was the fifties.
I suppose it did get them a headline, so their PR agency will have earned its dosh.
Another thing - what is the Institute of Advanced Motorists up to, doing scarey economic forecasting? Their usual business involves men in string backed driving gloves and car coats showing people how to drive as if it was the fifties.
I suppose it did get them a headline, so their PR agency will have earned its dosh.
Posted by: Steve A, Independence for Scotland! on 12:20am Sat 5 Jul 08
Kiera Hardie
"No doubt the separate Scottish Navy would use the money to buy fisheries protection gunboats to fend off the Spanish fleet."
Its onionist comments like that which expose the dark nether regions of onionism .
Kiera Hardie
"No doubt the separate Scottish Navy would use the money to buy fisheries protection gunboats to fend off the Spanish fleet."
Its onionist comments like that which expose the dark nether regions of onionism .
Posted by: Los Angeles, Edinburgh on 12:29am Sat 5 Jul 08
Kiera hardie[quote]No doubt the separate Scottish Navy would use the money to buy fisheries protection gunboats to fend off the Spanish fleet.[/quote] Great idea. You're full of it- er, great ideas.
Kiera hardie
No doubt the separate Scottish Navy would use the money to buy fisheries protection gunboats to fend off the Spanish fleet.
Great idea. You're full of it- er, great ideas.
Posted by: LM, Scotland on 12:34am Sat 5 Jul 08
[quote][bold]Kiera Hardie[/bold] wrote:
Soloman, are you saying that the SNP is promising that if the Union was ended drivers would not have to pay fuel duty at present rates? Or are you just havering? Personally, I think it would be good for car drivers to pay more tax at rates that make them stop making unnecsssary car journeys. There are more cars on the road now than ever before. That means more people can afford to drive than ever before. So if high taxes on top of high prices for petrol reduce that to, say, even 1995 levels, how is that so bad? More cash to put into public services, and buy shiny new aircraft carriers. No doubt the separate Scottish Navy would use the money to buy fisheries protection gunboats to fend off the Spanish fleet. [/quote] Great comment but unfortunately the SNP trolls will be hard at work now. I do believe there are a group of them employed by the SNP to use these comments pages in any way possible to twist a story to suit SNP propaganda. As I commented before any opposition is derided and mocked - the beginnings of facsism.....
Kiera Hardie wrote:
Soloman, are you saying that the SNP is promising that if the Union was ended drivers would not have to pay fuel duty at present rates? Or are you just havering? Personally, I think it would be good for car drivers to pay more tax at rates that make them stop making unnecsssary car journeys. There are more cars on the road now than ever before. That means more people can afford to drive than ever before. So if high taxes on top of high prices for petrol reduce that to, say, even 1995 levels, how is that so bad? More cash to put into public services, and buy shiny new aircraft carriers. No doubt the separate Scottish Navy would use the money to buy fisheries protection gunboats to fend off the Spanish fleet.
Great comment but unfortunately the SNP trolls will be hard at work now. I do believe there are a group of them employed by the SNP to use these comments pages in any way possible to twist a story to suit SNP propaganda. As I commented before any opposition is derided and mocked - the beginnings of facsism.....
Posted by: Graham, Glasgow on 12:36am Sat 5 Jul 08
The cars with the fatties that hobble into their cars are still queing at the petrol station near my location. They must have loadsamoney. What recession are we talking about. Even the fatties have done well under Labour. Tax the bloaters out of their cars.[bold]bold[/bold]
The cars with the fatties that hobble into their cars are still queing at the petrol station near my location. They must have loadsamoney. What recession are we talking about. Even the fatties have done well under Labour. Tax the bloaters out of their cars.
Posted by: LM, Scotland on 12:39am Sat 5 Jul 08
[quote][bold]Graham[/bold] wrote:
The cars with the fatties that hobble into their cars are still queing at the petrol station near my location. They must have loadsamoney. What recession are we talking about. Even the fatties have done well under Labour. Tax the bloaters out of their cars.[bold]bold[/bold] [/quote] Yes - that is the point!!!
Can only do us good to not use our cars as much.
And the environment - and jobs on public transport......
Graham wrote:
The cars with the fatties that hobble into their cars are still queing at the petrol station near my location. They must have loadsamoney. What recession are we talking about. Even the fatties have done well under Labour. Tax the bloaters out of their cars.
Yes - that is the point!!!
Can only do us good to not use our cars as much.
And the environment - and jobs on public transport......
Posted by: Kiera Hardie on 12:44am Sat 5 Jul 08
Well I do think that one inevitable consequence of separatism will be war with Spain over fishies. Mark my words.
More seriously, ARE the SNP going to claim that fuel duty would be reduced if the Union was broken up?
Well I do think that one inevitable consequence of separatism will be war with Spain over fishies. Mark my words.
More seriously, ARE the SNP going to claim that fuel duty would be reduced if the Union was broken up?
Posted by: soloman, Stirling on 12:44am Sat 5 Jul 08
Kiera Hardie
are you saying that the SNP is promising that if the Union was ended drivers would not have to pay fuel duty at present rates? Or are you just havering?
Certainly not saying that anyone is promising anything, however I do believe that an independent Scotland will put the people of Scotland first and that would mean that in times of hardship the SNP will have a fuel duty regulator that will help people on low incomes to afford day to day living.
The current fuel tax duty is a sham it has people on low incomes paying exactly the same tax as the wealthy.
Example: Someone earning £8500 pa turning up at the pumps along side someone earning £30,000 or £500,000 will pay the same tax for every litre of fuel pumped, it therefore stands to reason that they are being taxed at a much higher level when expressed as a percentage of their income,how in this world are the low paid supposed to sustain this level of tax.
Public transport in a rural area is even more expensive than taking the car, a trip to Glasgow for my family would frighten you, when you add up bus journey to Stirling £22 approx Train to Glasgow £31.
So no I wasn't havering and as for the aircraft carriers, we can sell off Trident from our shores, there must be a few quid in scrap (people like the Iranians are looking for that sort of kit) and we can buy state of the art Fishery protection vessels.
Kiera Hardie
are you saying that the SNP is promising that if the Union was ended drivers would not have to pay fuel duty at present rates? Or are you just havering?
Certainly not saying that anyone is promising anything, however I do believe that an independent Scotland will put the people of Scotland first and that would mean that in times of hardship the SNP will have a fuel duty regulator that will help people on low incomes to afford day to day living.
The current fuel tax duty is a sham it has people on low incomes paying exactly the same tax as the wealthy.
Example: Someone earning £8500 pa turning up at the pumps along side someone earning £30,000 or £500,000 will pay the same tax for every litre of fuel pumped, it therefore stands to reason that they are being taxed at a much higher level when expressed as a percentage of their income,how in this world are the low paid supposed to sustain this level of tax.
Public transport in a rural area is even more expensive than taking the car, a trip to Glasgow for my family would frighten you, when you add up bus journey to Stirling £22 approx Train to Glasgow £31.
So no I wasn't havering and as for the aircraft carriers, we can sell off Trident from our shores, there must be a few quid in scrap (people like the Iranians are looking for that sort of kit) and we can buy state of the art Fishery protection vessels.
Posted by: Steve A, Independence for Scotland! on 12:44am Sat 5 Jul 08
[quote][bold]LM[/bold] wrote:
[quote][bold]Kiera Hardie[/bold] wrote: Soloman, are you saying that the SNP is promising that if the Union was ended drivers would not have to pay fuel duty at present rates? Or are you just havering? Personally, I think it would be good for car drivers to pay more tax at rates that make them stop making unnecsssary car journeys. There are more cars on the road now than ever before. That means more people can afford to drive than ever before. So if high taxes on top of high prices for petrol reduce that to, say, even 1995 levels, how is that so bad? More cash to put into public services, and buy shiny new aircraft carriers. No doubt the separate Scottish Navy would use the money to buy fisheries protection gunboats to fend off the Spanish fleet. [/quote] Great comment but unfortunately the SNP trolls will be hard at work now. I do believe there are a group of them employed by the SNP to use these comments pages in any way possible to twist a story to suit SNP propaganda. As I commented before any opposition is derided and mocked - the beginnings of facsism.....[/quote] We would need go long way to match maggie broon when it comes to fascism ! Then there was that nice man Tony Bliar that put a whole new slant on blitzkrieg i think it went along the lines of 45 minutes from ATTACK!!!!!!!!.
Get real ! BTW i pay the snp to help them in their cause !!
LM wrote:
Kiera Hardie wrote: Soloman, are you saying that the SNP is promising that if the Union was ended drivers would not have to pay fuel duty at present rates? Or are you just havering? Personally, I think it would be good for car drivers to pay more tax at rates that make them stop making unnecsssary car journeys. There are more cars on the road now than ever before. That means more people can afford to drive than ever before. So if high taxes on top of high prices for petrol reduce that to, say, even 1995 levels, how is that so bad? More cash to put into public services, and buy shiny new aircraft carriers. No doubt the separate Scottish Navy would use the money to buy fisheries protection gunboats to fend off the Spanish fleet.
Great comment but unfortunately the SNP trolls will be hard at work now. I do believe there are a group of them employed by the SNP to use these comments pages in any way possible to twist a story to suit SNP propaganda. As I commented before any opposition is derided and mocked - the beginnings of facsism.....
We would need go long way to match maggie broon when it comes to fascism ! Then there was that nice man Tony Bliar that put a whole new slant on blitzkrieg i think it went along the lines of 45 minutes from ATTACK!!!!!!!!.
Get real ! BTW i pay the snp to help them in their cause !!
Posted by: Kiera Hardie on 12:44am Sat 5 Jul 08
[quote][bold]Graham[/bold] wrote:
The cars with the fatties that hobble into their cars are still queing at the petrol station near my location. They must have loadsamoney. What recession are we talking about. Even the fatties have done well under Labour. Tax the bloaters out of their cars.[bold]bold[/bold] [/quote] It's Scotland's bloaters!
Graham wrote:
The cars with the fatties that hobble into their cars are still queing at the petrol station near my location. They must have loadsamoney. What recession are we talking about. Even the fatties have done well under Labour. Tax the bloaters out of their cars.
It's Scotland's bloaters!
Posted by: nouveauxscum on 12:45am Sat 5 Jul 08
[quote][bold]LM[/bold] wrote:
[quote][bold]Kiera Hardie[/bold] wrote: Soloman, are you saying that the SNP is promising that if the Union was ended drivers would not have to pay fuel duty at present rates? Or are you just havering? Personally, I think it would be good for car drivers to pay more tax at rates that make them stop making unnecsssary car journeys. There are more cars on the road now than ever before. That means more people can afford to drive than ever before. So if high taxes on top of high prices for petrol reduce that to, say, even 1995 levels, how is that so bad? More cash to put into public services, and buy shiny new aircraft carriers. No doubt the separate Scottish Navy would use the money to buy fisheries protection gunboats to fend off the Spanish fleet. [/quote] Great comment but unfortunately the SNP trolls will be hard at work now. I do believe there are a group of them employed by the SNP to use these comments pages in any way possible to twist a story to suit SNP propaganda. As I commented before any opposition is derided and mocked - the beginnings of facsism.....[/quote] Just started an eight hour shift and am delighted to be fed some ammo already.
Fear of facses is the order of the day.
LM wrote:
Kiera Hardie wrote: Soloman, are you saying that the SNP is promising that if the Union was ended drivers would not have to pay fuel duty at present rates? Or are you just havering? Personally, I think it would be good for car drivers to pay more tax at rates that make them stop making unnecsssary car journeys. There are more cars on the road now than ever before. That means more people can afford to drive than ever before. So if high taxes on top of high prices for petrol reduce that to, say, even 1995 levels, how is that so bad? More cash to put into public services, and buy shiny new aircraft carriers. No doubt the separate Scottish Navy would use the money to buy fisheries protection gunboats to fend off the Spanish fleet.
Great comment but unfortunately the SNP trolls will be hard at work now. I do believe there are a group of them employed by the SNP to use these comments pages in any way possible to twist a story to suit SNP propaganda. As I commented before any opposition is derided and mocked - the beginnings of facsism.....
Just started an eight hour shift and am delighted to be fed some ammo already.
Fear of facses is the order of the day.
Posted by: Kiera Hardie on 12:48am Sat 5 Jul 08
Fear of fishies, more like.
Fear of fishies, more like.
Posted by: nouveauxscum on 12:49am Sat 5 Jul 08
[quote][bold]Kiera Hardie[/bold] wrote:
Fear of fishies, more like. [/quote] Elaborate.
Kiera Hardie wrote:
Fear of fishies, more like.
Elaborate.
Posted by: LM, Scotland on 12:50am Sat 5 Jul 08
Soloman wrote:
The current fuel tax duty is a sham it has people on low incomes paying exactly the same tax as the wealthy.
Example: Someone earning £8500 pa turning up at the pumps along side someone earning £30,000 or £500,000 will pay the same tax for every litre of fuel pumped, it therefore stands to reason that they are being taxed at a much higher level when expressed as a percentage of their income,how in this world are the low paid supposed to sustain this level of tax.
Well - quite simply - when I was earning a relatively low wage I did not have a car. I could not afford a car!!
Why do we think cars are a necessity!!
Time for everyone to change this mindset.
Soloman wrote:
The current fuel tax duty is a sham it has people on low incomes paying exactly the same tax as the wealthy.
Example: Someone earning £8500 pa turning up at the pumps along side someone earning £30,000 or £500,000 will pay the same tax for every litre of fuel pumped, it therefore stands to reason that they are being taxed at a much higher level when expressed as a percentage of their income,how in this world are the low paid supposed to sustain this level of tax.
Well - quite simply - when I was earning a relatively low wage I did not have a car. I could not afford a car!!
Why do we think cars are a necessity!!
Time for everyone to change this mindset.
Posted by: Kiera Hardie on 12:50am Sat 5 Jul 08
No.
Posted by: LM, Scotland on 12:52am Sat 5 Jul 08
Actually Kiera - you may be right - it is fear of fishies - salmon and sturgeon come to mind.
Actually Kiera - you may be right - it is fear of fishies - salmon and sturgeon come to mind.
Posted by: nouveauxscum on 12:54am Sat 5 Jul 08
Scotland produces more oil than Kuwait.
A 20p hike in the price of petrol in Scotland is more than the price of a single litre in Kuwait.
Wha's like us mugs?
Scotland produces more oil than Kuwait.
A 20p hike in the price of petrol in Scotland is more than the price of a single litre in Kuwait.
Wha's like us mugs?
Posted by: soloman, Stirling on 1:03am Sat 5 Jul 08
LM
Well - quite simply - when I was earning a relatively low wage I did not have a car. I could not afford a car!!
Why do we think cars are a necessity!!
Time for everyone to change this mindset.
So how do people get to their work, as I mentioned public transport is for those of us with deep pockets or those who restrict their weekly journeys.
And to sum up, you want to see the wealthy, driving around in their big cars while the low paid walk to work and dream of affording a car again some day!
Progressive Unionist.
FOR REAL CHANGE AND PROGRESS
VOTE SNP
INDEPENDENCE
ps it looks like theirs an opportunity for you in the East End of Glasgow !
LM
Well - quite simply - when I was earning a relatively low wage I did not have a car. I could not afford a car!!
Why do we think cars are a necessity!!
Time for everyone to change this mindset.
So how do people get to their work, as I mentioned public transport is for those of us with deep pockets or those who restrict their weekly journeys.
And to sum up, you want to see the wealthy, driving around in their big cars while the low paid walk to work and dream of affording a car again some day!
Progressive Unionist.
FOR REAL CHANGE AND PROGRESS
VOTE SNP
INDEPENDENCE
ps it looks like theirs an opportunity for you in the East End of Glasgow !
Posted by: Steve A, Independence for Scotland! on 1:06am Sat 5 Jul 08
[quote][bold]LM[/bold] wrote:
Actually Kiera - you may be right - it is fear of fishies - salmon and sturgeon come to mind.[/quote] LM
You better believe it ! You ain't seen nothing yet !!You are absolutely correct to be afraid -very afraid ! Your corrupt onion is shedding its rotten lairs day by day .Glasgow east should expose the rotten core of nuliebour !
ITS TIME BWING IT ON !
LM wrote:
Actually Kiera - you may be right - it is fear of fishies - salmon and sturgeon come to mind.
LM
You better believe it ! You ain't seen nothing yet !!You are absolutely correct to be afraid -very afraid ! Your corrupt onion is shedding its rotten lairs day by day .Glasgow east should expose the rotten core of nuliebour !
ITS TIME BWING IT ON !
Posted by: Graham, Glasgow on 1:14am Sat 5 Jul 08
Kiera,12:44am. A bloater is a bloater no matter what part of the planet the bloater happened to be born on! Silly old Kiera the NAT.[bold]bold[/bold]
Kiera,12:44am. A bloater is a bloater no matter what part of the planet the bloater happened to be born on! Silly old Kiera the NAT.
Posted by: Los Angeles, Edinburgh on 1:21am Sat 5 Jul 08
LM Disease[quote]Great comment but unfortunately the SNP trolls will be hard at work now.[/quote] Wrong. You have no idea how often that moss covered remark is dumped into posts.
We are the same disparate group who visit forums sporadically. There may be one SNP staffer against one Labourite, and I know there are two BNP members, but I can guarantee the rest are ordinary folk finding confidence in themselves and Scotland.
Irritating, isn't it?
It's called asserting your political rights.
"LM" - not very imaginative, but then we spotted that from your banal comments.
LM Disease
Great comment but unfortunately the SNP trolls will be hard at work now.
Wrong. You have no idea how often that moss covered remark is dumped into posts.
We are the same disparate group who visit forums sporadically. There may be one SNP staffer against one Labourite, and I know there are two BNP members, but I can guarantee the rest are ordinary folk finding confidence in themselves and Scotland.
Irritating, isn't it?
It's called asserting your political rights.
"LM" - not very imaginative, but then we spotted that from your banal comments.
Posted by: nouveauxscum on 1:23am Sat 5 Jul 08
A suggestion.
LM2
lol
Posted by: Rob O, UK on 1:32am Sat 5 Jul 08
I take exception to those that say cars are a luxury and "tax the bloaters out of their cars". I work shifts and I can asure you that public transport is NOTan option at 0430 Hrs. I am open to suggestions from those in government as to how us shift workers should get to work ?? Right or wrong a car IS a necessity unless government is going pay to run regular public transport at all hours of the night and day
I take exception to those that say cars are a luxury and "tax the bloaters out of their cars". I work shifts and I can asure you that public transport is NOTan option at 0430 Hrs. I am open to suggestions from those in government as to how us shift workers should get to work ?? Right or wrong a car IS a necessity unless government is going pay to run regular public transport at all hours of the night and day
Posted by: Neil, Aberdeenshire on 2:08am Sat 5 Jul 08
Urban idiots! Leaving aside the large portion of Scotland's population who live in rural areas with no convenient public transport (the people you always seem to overlook) what do you think will happen to the prices of [italic]everything[/italic] when the price of fuel rises to "tax people out of their cars"? Here's a wee hint for you; there is not one thing you can buy, from a tattie to a television, which does not require to be transported from its point of origin to your front door. Fuel prices affect [italic]everything[/italic] , not just fat cats in their cars. Idiots.
Urban idiots! Leaving aside the large portion of Scotland's population who live in rural areas with no convenient public transport (the people you always seem to overlook) what do you think will happen to the prices of
everything when the price of fuel rises to "tax people out of their cars"? Here's a wee hint for you; there is not one thing you can buy, from a tattie to a television, which does not require to be transported from its point of origin to your front door. Fuel prices affect
everything , not just fat cats in their cars. Idiots.
Posted by: jonny bond, glasgow on 3:01am Sat 5 Jul 08
Neil you talk utter pish I have never in my life seen a product on sale to the public that has not been transported through a central hub somewhere often in the opposite direction from the supplier or point of sale. You are however right about the fuel affecting everything even stuff you buy online is sent by post. However it is worth pointing out that farmers do not pay fuel duty at all on their diesel and would be uncompetitive in the global market if they did hiding the fact they pollute the environment to produce cheap food.
Neil you talk utter pish I have never in my life seen a product on sale to the public that has not been transported through a central hub somewhere often in the opposite direction from the supplier or point of sale. You are however right about the fuel affecting everything even stuff you buy online is sent by post. However it is worth pointing out that farmers do not pay fuel duty at all on their diesel and would be uncompetitive in the global market if they did hiding the fact they pollute the environment to produce cheap food.
Posted by: Free Thinker, North Lanarkshire on 3:45am Sat 5 Jul 08
[quote][bold]LM[/bold] wrote:
Soloman wrote: The current fuel tax duty is a sham it has people on low incomes paying exactly the same tax as the wealthy. Example: Someone earning £8500 pa turning up at the pumps along side someone earning £30,000 or £500,000 will pay the same tax for every litre of fuel pumped, it therefore stands to reason that they are being taxed at a much higher level when expressed as a percentage of their income,how in this world are the low paid supposed to sustain this level of tax. Well - quite simply - when I was earning a relatively low wage I did not have a car. I could not afford a car!! Why do we think cars are a necessity!! Time for everyone to change this mindset. [/quote] ... Including the unjustifiably rich...
LM wrote:
Soloman wrote: The current fuel tax duty is a sham it has people on low incomes paying exactly the same tax as the wealthy. Example: Someone earning £8500 pa turning up at the pumps along side someone earning £30,000 or £500,000 will pay the same tax for every litre of fuel pumped, it therefore stands to reason that they are being taxed at a much higher level when expressed as a percentage of their income,how in this world are the low paid supposed to sustain this level of tax. Well - quite simply - when I was earning a relatively low wage I did not have a car. I could not afford a car!! Why do we think cars are a necessity!! Time for everyone to change this mindset.
... Including the unjustifiably rich...
Posted by: Neil, Aberdeenshire on 4:49am Sat 5 Jul 08
jonny, how is it utter pish when you yourself have just said that everything is transported around? My point was that everything needs to be transported and so fuel price increases affect everything. You confirm that point, after having said it is utter pish. Explain yourself.
jonny, how is it utter pish when you yourself have just said that everything is transported around? My point was that everything needs to be transported and so fuel price increases affect everything. You confirm that point, after having said it is utter pish. Explain yourself.
Posted by: wolf Klita, clydebank on 6:53am Sat 5 Jul 08
Less cars on the road, I think this is a good thing, also less of those wanna be rich people who cruise around in fat 4wheel drives in the city. Cannot wait for them to dissappear.
Less cars on the road, I think this is a good thing, also less of those wanna be rich people who cruise around in fat 4wheel drives in the city. Cannot wait for them to dissappear.
Posted by: gjmckay, edinburgh south on 7:00am Sat 5 Jul 08
Why can we not just accept that for some people cars are a luxury, for others they are a necessity. For some peole it is nice to arrive at work in their car instead of walking from the bus stop or train station. To afford that luxury you have to earn enough money, after income tax, to pay for the car (also taxed), you need road tax (which is a tax) and insurance (don't know if insurance is taxed) then you have to put fuel into it (highest tax of them all) If it is a real luxury, then it is one of the big gas guzzlers, so for each mile you drive, you are paying much more than someone, with for example a Micra or Yaris. This is a very convenient tax for the government (not just the UK, but they do seem to go overboard a bit with it compared with other countries) and they have a few outs here; blame the oil companies, driving your own car is a habit hard to break and fall back on the environment. We could have a comprehensive public transport infrastructure, but for some reason we don't, certainly not in Edinburgh and even with the new tram system (or should I say tram line) currently under construction, it will benefit a limited number of the Edinburgh population. It will probably be a great benefit to tourists (who normally don't buy a car for their week or two in Edinburgh), however will not do much to change the habits of 90% of the travelling public that the route doesn't suit.
So all in all, whichever government is in power they wil take advantage of those least able to change their habit, whether fuel, alcohol or tobbaco. The only positive about fuel duty is that everyone is affected, not just those with their own cars. The increase in food cost due to the Wests promotion of bio-fuels which have encouraged the agricultural industry to shy away from food production and on to production for bio-fuels has co-incided with a hike in oil prices, which affects everyone who wishes to eat or drink or buy a wahing machine or etc., etc. etc.
Why can we not just accept that for some people cars are a luxury, for others they are a necessity. For some peole it is nice to arrive at work in their car instead of walking from the bus stop or train station. To afford that luxury you have to earn enough money, after income tax, to pay for the car (also taxed), you need road tax (which is a tax) and insurance (don't know if insurance is taxed) then you have to put fuel into it (highest tax of them all) If it is a real luxury, then it is one of the big gas guzzlers, so for each mile you drive, you are paying much more than someone, with for example a Micra or Yaris. This is a very convenient tax for the government (not just the UK, but they do seem to go overboard a bit with it compared with other countries) and they have a few outs here; blame the oil companies, driving your own car is a habit hard to break and fall back on the environment. We could have a comprehensive public transport infrastructure, but for some reason we don't, certainly not in Edinburgh and even with the new tram system (or should I say tram line) currently under construction, it will benefit a limited number of the Edinburgh population. It will probably be a great benefit to tourists (who normally don't buy a car for their week or two in Edinburgh), however will not do much to change the habits of 90% of the travelling public that the route doesn't suit.
So all in all, whichever government is in power they wil take advantage of those least able to change their habit, whether fuel, alcohol or tobbaco. The only positive about fuel duty is that everyone is affected, not just those with their own cars. The increase in food cost due to the Wests promotion of bio-fuels which have encouraged the agricultural industry to shy away from food production and on to production for bio-fuels has co-incided with a hike in oil prices, which affects everyone who wishes to eat or drink or buy a wahing machine or etc., etc. etc.
Posted by: Rab The Ranter, Ayrshire on 7:22am Sat 5 Jul 08
[quote][bold]nouveauxscum[/bold] wrote:
Scotland produces more oil than Kuwait. A 20p hike in the price of petrol in Scotland is more than the price of a single litre in Kuwait. Wha's like us mugs?[/quote] Here here!
Weel sayid "Here's tae us, wha's like us". NAEBUBBY, 'cause thur no that stupit. We must hae wur heids up wur ers£s.
nouveauxscum wrote:
Scotland produces more oil than Kuwait. A 20p hike in the price of petrol in Scotland is more than the price of a single litre in Kuwait. Wha's like us mugs?
Here here!
Weel sayid "Here's tae us, wha's like us". NAEBUBBY, 'cause thur no that stupit. We must hae wur heids up wur ers£s.
Posted by: Donald Anderson, glasgow on 7:24am Sat 5 Jul 08
Good job Scotland has its own oil, which is not owned by a greedy foreign power.
Good job Scotland has its own oil, which is not owned by a greedy foreign power.
Posted by: Rab The Ranter, Ayrshire on 7:24am Sat 5 Jul 08
Can I also say (or ask) has oanybuddy heard fae ALKIE lately.
He/she must be p!shed or they have gave up oan Scotland as a lost case LOL.
Can I also say (or ask) has oanybuddy heard fae ALKIE lately.
He/she must be p!shed or they have gave up oan Scotland as a lost case LOL.
Posted by: Paul, Paisley on 8:43am Sat 5 Jul 08
Could this issue be the defining point in our search for self-determination?
Could this issue be the defining point in our search for self-determination?
Posted by: Freeman Stan, Glasgow on 9:00am Sat 5 Jul 08
Is it really beyond the wit of personkind to devise a petrol tax system where essential users of cars and lorries (including people living in remote areas, nightshift workers, road hauliers etc)would pay a lower rate of petrol tax than the selfish urban motorists for whom cars are not a necessity? Perhaps a voucher system could be used. No doubt some spivs would find ways of abusing the system, but would it not be fairer than the present "one size fits all" tax?
Is it really beyond the wit of personkind to devise a petrol tax system where essential users of cars and lorries (including people living in remote areas, nightshift workers, road hauliers etc)would pay a lower rate of petrol tax than the selfish urban motorists for whom cars are not a necessity? Perhaps a voucher system could be used. No doubt some spivs would find ways of abusing the system, but would it not be fairer than the present "one size fits all" tax?
Posted by: Mark Pittman, Glasgow on 9:11am Sat 5 Jul 08
Usual chat in an office on Monday moring is - Did you do anything at the weekend ? Think my reply will soon be "Yes , fllled my car for the week ahead and was skint afterwards" !!!!!!!!!
Usual chat in an office on Monday moring is - Did you do anything at the weekend ? Think my reply will soon be "Yes , fllled my car for the week ahead and was skint afterwards" !!!!!!!!!
Posted by: Scamp on 9:20am Sat 5 Jul 08
As the oil supply problem intensifies nothing that uses liquid fuels - cars, lorries, aircraft carriers etc - will be going very far anyway in ten years time!
As the oil supply problem intensifies nothing that uses liquid fuels - cars, lorries, aircraft carriers etc - will be going very far anyway in ten years time!
Posted by: Lachlan, Stirling on 9:30am Sat 5 Jul 08
Only a few weeks ago, Iain Gray of Labour put his foot in it when he claimed that the price of a barrel of oil could never be used as a basis for a separate Scottish state?
In debates about Scotland's future, Unionist politicians must not rise to the Nationalist bait about the rising price of a barrel of oil and, if they do, they should engage their brains before opening their mouths.
At the present time, this is a no brainer, and every Unionist politician should avoid comment like the plague!
Only a few weeks ago, Iain Gray of Labour put his foot in it when he claimed that the price of a barrel of oil could never be used as a basis for a separate Scottish state?
In debates about Scotland's future, Unionist politicians must not rise to the Nationalist bait about the rising price of a barrel of oil and, if they do, they should engage their brains before opening their mouths.
At the present time, this is a no brainer, and every Unionist politician should avoid comment like the plague!
Posted by: Big Boy Did It, And Ran Away on 9:33am Sat 5 Jul 08
LA, 1.21:
[quote]the rest are ordinary folk finding confidence in themselves and Scotland.[/quote]
Spot on LA.
LA, 1.21:
the rest are ordinary folk finding confidence in themselves and Scotland.
Spot on LA.
Posted by: Ultra Vires, Dear Green Place on 9:35am Sat 5 Jul 08
Indirect tax on fuel raises £millions that go to the Treasury to fund schools, hospitals, roads, libraries etc etc.
Taxation is a necessary part of our society and economy.
Were it not raised through fuel duty it would need to be raised another way.
Those who whinge here about fuel duty, seeking its removal, should tell us how the revenue it raises should be replaced.
Indirect tax on fuel raises £millions that go to the Treasury to fund schools, hospitals, roads, libraries etc etc.
Taxation is a necessary part of our society and economy.
Were it not raised through fuel duty it would need to be raised another way.
Those who whinge here about fuel duty, seeking its removal, should tell us how the revenue it raises should be replaced.
Posted by: Ian Johnston, Castle Douglas on 9:36am Sat 5 Jul 08
[quote][bold]Jimbo[/bold] wrote:
Motorists warned of 20p a litre fuel price rise...
15.5p of which will go to the treasury.[/quote] Most of the treasury revenue from petrol and diesel is fuel duty, fixed in pence per litre, and unaffected by the forecourt price. All the treasury will get from this rise is 17.5% VAT on the increase - that's 3.5p/litre.
Still jolly useful to Mr Darling, of course.
Jimbo wrote:
Motorists warned of 20p a litre fuel price rise...
15.5p of which will go to the treasury.
Most of the treasury revenue from petrol and diesel is fuel duty, fixed in pence per litre, and unaffected by the forecourt price. All the treasury will get from this rise is 17.5% VAT on the increase - that's 3.5p/litre.
Still jolly useful to Mr Darling, of course.
Posted by: Ultra Vires, Dear Green Place on 9:42am Sat 5 Jul 08
Ian Johnston
Aye, it's useful to Mr Darling.........so that he can fund hospitals, schools, Police, libraries etc.
Ian Johnston
Aye, it's useful to Mr Darling.........so that he can fund hospitals, schools, Police, libraries etc.
Posted by: Astonished, Inverclyde on 9:44am Sat 5 Jul 08
Graham/keira/LM - Ha ha hahahaha. Your lies ain't working !
As nouveauxscum says and it is worth repeating [bold]Scotland produces more oil than Kuwait.[/bold]
The main problem for Scotland is that labour politicians make Scotland send all their hard earned cash to London - Scotland is solving that problem - And you lot really,really don't like it !
Graham/keira/LM - Ha ha hahahaha. Your lies ain't working !
As nouveauxscum says and it is worth repeating
Scotland produces more oil than Kuwait.
The main problem for Scotland is that labour politicians make Scotland send all their hard earned cash to London - Scotland is solving that problem - And you lot really,really don't like it !
Posted by: Ultra Vires, Dear Green Place on 9:54am Sat 5 Jul 08
Astonished,
Could we not keep this debate civil and adult?
Yes, the UK Government is based in Westminster.
Tax revenue - for all 4 countries - is gathered there and much of it spent from there.
Scots contribute.
And Scots take out.
Oil from the North Sea has been reached by commercial organisations who earn revenue for their efforts.
They make profit.
They pay tax on that profit.
The pay tax on that profit - but not in Scotland.
Astonished,
Could we not keep this debate civil and adult?
Yes, the UK Government is based in Westminster.
Tax revenue - for all 4 countries - is gathered there and much of it spent from there.
Scots contribute.
And Scots take out.
Oil from the North Sea has been reached by commercial organisations who earn revenue for their efforts.
They make profit.
They pay tax on that profit.
The pay tax on that profit - but not in Scotland.
Posted by: Ultra Vires, Dear Green Place on 9:56am Sat 5 Jul 08
Astonished
PS: even in the independent Scotland many here dream of, the Oil Companies will pay tax on their profits in the tax jurisdiction where they take their profit........NOT Scotland.
Astonished
PS: even in the independent Scotland many here dream of, the Oil Companies will pay tax on their profits in the tax jurisdiction where they take their profit........NOT Scotland.
Posted by: ex labour voter, glasgow on 10:14am Sat 5 Jul 08
[quote][bold]Ultra Vires[/bold] wrote:
Indirect tax on fuel raises £millions that go to the Treasury to fund schools, hospitals, roads, libraries etc etc. Taxation is a necessary part of our society and economy. Were it not raised through fuel duty it would need to be raised another way. Those who whinge here about fuel duty, seeking its removal, should tell us how the revenue it raises should be replaced. [/quote] Independence .
Stop the money crossing the border , Keep it in a FREE SCOTLAND.
Stop London from stealing our resources and bleeding Scotland dry.
EASY.
Ultra Vires wrote:
Indirect tax on fuel raises £millions that go to the Treasury to fund schools, hospitals, roads, libraries etc etc. Taxation is a necessary part of our society and economy. Were it not raised through fuel duty it would need to be raised another way. Those who whinge here about fuel duty, seeking its removal, should tell us how the revenue it raises should be replaced.
Independence .
Stop the money crossing the border , Keep it in a FREE SCOTLAND.
Stop London from stealing our resources and bleeding Scotland dry.
EASY.
Posted by: Scott, Gourock on 10:27am Sat 5 Jul 08
I'm probably regarded as one of the "well off" who drives a big car. I'm **** off that everybody and their granny wants to tax me into oblivion so that my wealth equals that of a lower paid person. I worked hard to get where I am, I wasn't always "well off" and maybe just maybe we need to look at helping those who are not so "well of" to improve their lot instead of just taxing those who are to the hilt.
What incentive is that in a modern Scotland. We seem hell bent in taking as much from the well off as possible instead of helping the not so well off to become well off with better education, better job prospects and more positive confident attitude about the future.
As for Independence, in the words of Wendy "Bring it On" the sooner the better.
I'm probably regarded as one of the "well off" who drives a big car. I'm **** off that everybody and their granny wants to tax me into oblivion so that my wealth equals that of a lower paid person. I worked hard to get where I am, I wasn't always "well off" and maybe just maybe we need to look at helping those who are not so "well of" to improve their lot instead of just taxing those who are to the hilt.
What incentive is that in a modern Scotland. We seem hell bent in taking as much from the well off as possible instead of helping the not so well off to become well off with better education, better job prospects and more positive confident attitude about the future.
As for Independence, in the words of Wendy "Bring it On" the sooner the better.
Posted by: Scott, Gourock on 10:28am Sat 5 Jul 08
I'm probably regarded as one of the "well off" who drives a big car. I'm **** off that everybody and their granny wants to tax me into oblivion so that my wealth equals that of a lower paid person. I worked hard to get where I am, I wasn't always "well off" and maybe just maybe we need to look at helping those who are not so "well of" to improve their lot instead of just taxing those who are to the hilt.
What incentive is that in a modern Scotland. We seem hell bent in taking as much from the well off as possible instead of helping the not so well off to become well off with better education, better job prospects and more positive confident attitude about the future.
As for Independence, in the words of Wendy "Bring it On" the sooner the better.
I'm probably regarded as one of the "well off" who drives a big car. I'm **** off that everybody and their granny wants to tax me into oblivion so that my wealth equals that of a lower paid person. I worked hard to get where I am, I wasn't always "well off" and maybe just maybe we need to look at helping those who are not so "well of" to improve their lot instead of just taxing those who are to the hilt.
What incentive is that in a modern Scotland. We seem hell bent in taking as much from the well off as possible instead of helping the not so well off to become well off with better education, better job prospects and more positive confident attitude about the future.
As for Independence, in the words of Wendy "Bring it On" the sooner the better.
Posted by: Ultra Vires, Dear Green Place on 10:36am Sat 5 Jul 08
ex labour voter,
You see - that's the problem with the Independence dreamers; they're dreamers!
Aye, I can see the emotional, romantic 1314 inspired "freeeeeeedom" case, but notions of Westminster stealing oor money etc are just plain naive.
Scotland puts in.
Scotland takes out.
The English taxpayers are sick & tired of whingeing, moaning, malingering Scots greetin about life and would be glad to see this drain on their wealth removed pronto.
ex labour voter,
You see - that's the problem with the Independence dreamers; they're dreamers!
Aye, I can see the emotional, romantic 1314 inspired "freeeeeeedom" case, but notions of Westminster stealing oor money etc are just plain naive.
Scotland puts in.
Scotland takes out.
The English taxpayers are sick & tired of whingeing, moaning, malingering Scots greetin about life and would be glad to see this drain on their wealth removed pronto.
Posted by: sam, greenock on 10:39am Sat 5 Jul 08
[quote][bold]Kiera Hardie[/bold] wrote:
Soloman, are you saying that the SNP is promising that if the Union was ended drivers would not have to pay fuel duty at present rates? Or are you just havering? Personally, I think it would be good for car drivers to pay more tax at rates that make them stop making unnecsssary car journeys. There are more cars on the road now than ever before. That means more people can afford to drive than ever before. So if high taxes on top of high prices for petrol reduce that to, say, even 1995 levels, how is that so bad? More cash to put into public services, and buy shiny new aircraft carriers. No doubt the separate Scottish Navy would use the money to buy fisheries protection gunboats to fend off the Spanish fleet. [/quote] [quote]No doubt the separate Scottish Navy would use the money to buy fisheries protection gunboats to fend off the Spanish fleet.[/quote]
I think it would still be better than invading Iraq and/or Afghanistan
Kiera Hardie wrote:
Soloman, are you saying that the SNP is promising that if the Union was ended drivers would not have to pay fuel duty at present rates? Or are you just havering? Personally, I think it would be good for car drivers to pay more tax at rates that make them stop making unnecsssary car journeys. There are more cars on the road now than ever before. That means more people can afford to drive than ever before. So if high taxes on top of high prices for petrol reduce that to, say, even 1995 levels, how is that so bad? More cash to put into public services, and buy shiny new aircraft carriers. No doubt the separate Scottish Navy would use the money to buy fisheries protection gunboats to fend off the Spanish fleet.
No doubt the separate Scottish Navy would use the money to buy fisheries protection gunboats to fend off the Spanish fleet.
I think it would still be better than invading Iraq and/or Afghanistan
Posted by: Ultra Vires, Dear Green Place on 10:42am Sat 5 Jul 08
I am not surprised to note that those who greet & moan about the tax on fuel are not willingable to tell us how they would raise the revenue were this tax removed or reduced.
Come on guys - let's get real.
Here, let me help you:
How about we reducestop the pension for OAPs (very many are very wealthy) andor how about cutting by 90% the amount we pay out to those who claim they are disabled? Most are malingerers.
Finally, how about [bold]stopping[/bold] the broo money for habitual malingerers? You know: cant workwont work from Castlemilk and Kirkintilloch?
I am not surprised to note that those who greet & moan about the tax on fuel are not willingable to tell us how they would raise the revenue were this tax removed or reduced.
Come on guys - let's get real.
Here, let me help you:
How about we reducestop the pension for OAPs (very many are very wealthy) andor how about cutting by 90% the amount we pay out to those who claim they are disabled? Most are malingerers.
Finally, how about
stopping the broo money for habitual malingerers? You know: cant workwont work from Castlemilk and Kirkintilloch?
Posted by: Boxer, Down on the farm on 10:44am Sat 5 Jul 08
So why do some of the eejit posters think that taxing people with cars is the answer. It's got nothing to do with demand for more oil and everything to do with financiers buying into commodities. As for transport yeah everything needs to be transported. So high oil prices = your screwed everyone of you.
So why do some of the eejit posters think that taxing people with cars is the answer. It's got nothing to do with demand for more oil and everything to do with financiers buying into commodities. As for transport yeah everything needs to be transported. So high oil prices = your screwed everyone of you.
Posted by: Ultra Vires, Dear Green Place on 10:47am Sat 5 Jul 08
Boxer,
How would YOU raise the money if we were to reduce the fuel duty?
Boxer,
How would YOU raise the money if we were to reduce the fuel duty?
Posted by: sam, greenock on 10:48am Sat 5 Jul 08
[quote][bold]Ultra Vires[/bold] wrote:
ex labour voter, You see - that's the problem with the Independence dreamers; they're dreamers! Aye, I can see the emotional, romantic 1314 inspired "freeeeeeedom" case, but notions of Westminster stealing oor money etc are just plain naive. Scotland puts in. Scotland takes out. The English taxpayers are sick & tired of whingeing, moaning, malingering Scots greetin about life and would be glad to see this drain on their wealth removed pronto. [/quote] [quote]The English taxpayers are sick & tired of whingeing, moaning, malingering Scots greetin about life and would be glad to see this drain on their wealth removed pronto.[/quote]
What about the Welsh and Irish tax-payers.Have you conducted an in-depth survey of how they feel.
Apart from that yer talkin pish!
Ultra Vires wrote:
ex labour voter, You see - that's the problem with the Independence dreamers; they're dreamers! Aye, I can see the emotional, romantic 1314 inspired "freeeeeeedom" case, but notions of Westminster stealing oor money etc are just plain naive. Scotland puts in. Scotland takes out. The English taxpayers are sick & tired of whingeing, moaning, malingering Scots greetin about life and would be glad to see this drain on their wealth removed pronto.
The English taxpayers are sick & tired of whingeing, moaning, malingering Scots greetin about life and would be glad to see this drain on their wealth removed pronto.
What about the Welsh and Irish tax-payers.Have you conducted an in-depth survey of how they feel.
Apart from that yer talkin pish!
Posted by: ex labour voter, glasgow on 10:54am Sat 5 Jul 08
[quote][bold]Ultra Vires[/bold] wrote:
ex labour voter, You see - that's the problem with the Independence dreamers; they're dreamers! Aye, I can see the emotional, romantic 1314 inspired "freeeeeeedom" case, but notions of Westminster stealing oor money etc are just plain naive. Scotland puts in. Scotland takes out. The English taxpayers are sick & tired of whingeing, moaning, malingering Scots greetin about life and would be glad to see this drain on their wealth removed pronto. [/quote] I presume you choose to ignore the Mcrone report like your lying cheating westmonster mob of incompetent parasites.
Its sad that Scotland has a few dependent cowards who are too afraid to go it alone.
Are you part of this shower of greedy pigs with your nose deep in the trough?
Ultra Vires wrote:
ex labour voter, You see - that's the problem with the Independence dreamers; they're dreamers! Aye, I can see the emotional, romantic 1314 inspired "freeeeeeedom" case, but notions of Westminster stealing oor money etc are just plain naive. Scotland puts in. Scotland takes out. The English taxpayers are sick & tired of whingeing, moaning, malingering Scots greetin about life and would be glad to see this drain on their wealth removed pronto.
I presume you choose to ignore the Mcrone report like your lying cheating westmonster mob of incompetent parasites.
Its sad that Scotland has a few dependent cowards who are too afraid to go it alone.
Are you part of this shower of greedy pigs with your nose deep in the trough?
Posted by: Ultra Vires, Dear Green Place on 10:54am Sat 5 Jul 08
sam,
No in depth surveys in Wales or NI.
No in depth survey in England either.
My comment re the English contempt for greetin faced Scots is based on every conversation I've had with them in the last few years.
To sum up: sick and tired of greedy, greetin, lazy, malingering Scots who demand far more from the UK Treasury than they put in. The English taxpayers hope that illogical, emotional, Mel Gibson inspired aspirations of Scots dreamers are satisfied and they can see their hard earned cash spent on schools in Bishop's Stortford rather than lazy gits in Drumchapel.
sam,
No in depth surveys in Wales or NI.
No in depth survey in England either.
My comment re the English contempt for greetin faced Scots is based on every conversation I've had with them in the last few years.
To sum up: sick and tired of greedy, greetin, lazy, malingering Scots who demand far more from the UK Treasury than they put in. The English taxpayers hope that illogical, emotional, Mel Gibson inspired aspirations of Scots dreamers are satisfied and they can see their hard earned cash spent on schools in Bishop's Stortford rather than lazy gits in Drumchapel.
Posted by: Celtic Lion, Roar on 10:55am Sat 5 Jul 08
Ultra Vires, you have gone from
[quote]Could we not keep this debate civil and adult?[/quote]
to
[quote]The English taxpayers are sick & tired of whingeing, moaning, malingering Scots greetin about life and would be glad to see this drain on their wealth removed pronto.[/quote]
You're on a fast trajectory to be rated alongside some of the less loved trolls here. I presume you'll be equally unimaginative and inaccurate as they have proved themselves to be.
Ultra Vires, you have gone from
Could we not keep this debate civil and adult?
to
The English taxpayers are sick & tired of whingeing, moaning, malingering Scots greetin about life and would be glad to see this drain on their wealth removed pronto.
You're on a fast trajectory to be rated alongside some of the less loved trolls here. I presume you'll be equally unimaginative and inaccurate as they have proved themselves to be.
Posted by: Ultra Vires, Dear Green Place on 10:57am Sat 5 Jul 08
ex labour voter @ 10:54
Oh dear. Sundry personal and ill founded insults but no insight.
Errr......thanks for your errrr....contributio
n to the "debate".
ex labour voter @ 10:54
Oh dear. Sundry personal and ill founded insults but no insight.
Errr......thanks for your errrr....contributio
n to the "debate".
Posted by: Macthickey, Irvine on 10:57am Sat 5 Jul 08
UK will soon be totally immobile. Therefore there will be a gigantic drop Revenue for The Darling man. So would a sensible action not
be to cut the oil tax by 50%. This would initially get the traffic moving.
But there would have to be a law forcing the Energy companys to drop their Price Fixing.
UK will soon be totally immobile. Therefore there will be a gigantic drop Revenue for The Darling man. So would a sensible action not
be to cut the oil tax by 50%. This would initially get the traffic moving.
But there would have to be a law forcing the Energy companys to drop their Price Fixing.
Posted by: Ultra Vires, Dear Green Place on 10:59am Sat 5 Jul 08
Celtic Lion
Oh, I do wish I could give you a sugar and spice and all things nice account of the Englsih perspective - but that would be lies.
I gave you the truth: deal with it.
Celtic Lion
Oh, I do wish I could give you a sugar and spice and all things nice account of the Englsih perspective - but that would be lies.
I gave you the truth: deal with it.
Posted by: Ultra Vires, Dear Green Place on 11:00am Sat 5 Jul 08
Macthickey
How would YOU replace this massive reduction in revenue?
Macthickey
How would YOU replace this massive reduction in revenue?
Posted by: Celtic Lion, Roar on 11:02am Sat 5 Jul 08
I'm aware of the English perspective in more ways than you apparently know. I was simply highlighting your own hypocrisy so you could "deal with it."
I'm aware of the English perspective in more ways than you apparently know. I was simply highlighting your own hypocrisy so you could "deal with it."
Posted by: Ultra Vires, Dear Green Place on 11:04am Sat 5 Jul 08
Celtic Lion
No hypocrisy from me, Sir.
If you cannot see the difference between the truthful account of the English perspective I provided and the pointless, foul mouthed personal insults I objected to then YOU have a problem.
Celtic Lion
No hypocrisy from me, Sir.
If you cannot see the difference between the truthful account of the English perspective I provided and the pointless, foul mouthed personal insults I objected to then YOU have a problem.
Posted by: Ultra Vires, Dear Green Place on 11:08am Sat 5 Jul 08
I have erred and I apologise to Celtic Lion and others.
I objected to one poster referring to another as scum.....but when I look closer I see that foul name had been taken by the poster himself.
My mistake.
I apologise again.
I have erred and I apologise to Celtic Lion and others.
I objected to one poster referring to another as scum.....but when I look closer I see that foul name had been taken by the poster himself.
My mistake.
I apologise again.
Posted by: Ultra Vires, Dear Green Place on 11:10am Sat 5 Jul 08
No-one able to tell me HOW we're gonna pay for hospitals and Schools if we reduce the Fuel Duty?
Funny that.............
No-one able to tell me HOW we're gonna pay for hospitals and Schools if we reduce the Fuel Duty?
Funny that.............
Posted by: soloman, Stirling on 11:18am Sat 5 Jul 08
Ultra Vires
Were it not raised through fuel duty it would need to be raised another way.
Ultra, I'm no economist but it seems simple to me that if you reduce the price of fuel then people will have money left over to pay their mortgages and loans( The loans endorsed by this horrible Labour Government)
Then the Chancelor needs to sit down and do some simple arithmetic and decide what is it that is strangling the economy, then he needs to prioiritise what it is that will make this country prosper and then finally he goes to MR Brown and gives him the list of offensive expenditure that has to go.
Number 1: Remove our Armed Forces from foreign countries : saving = I'll leave that answer to the economists!
The PROBLEM with our current Chancelor is that he is not allowed a mind of his own, you can take that view further and apply it to the rest of the cabinet and the Majority of the Labour party, because their is one person and one person alone making policy for our country and that is Mr Brown.
When he was the chancelor he didn't have Tony Blair breathing down his neck and the other cabinet members they didn't have T.B. breathing down their necks.
With Mr Brown in charge we have a dangerous situation!
Anyway Ultra, extra ways of raising tax as well as savings as noted above, well you could always start taking extra tax from the businesses that make too much profit and yet have tax avoidence systems.
Higher tax on luxury items, how about income tax: re-introduce 10pence tax rate and introduce new higher rate for people earning in excess of £150,000, I'm quite sure that if you look at other countries round the globe whos economies work no worse than our own, then the question is why is it that a country with more oil than Q8 has the highest priced fuel in the world?
Ultra Vires
Were it not raised through fuel duty it would need to be raised another way.
Ultra, I'm no economist but it seems simple to me that if you reduce the price of fuel then people will have money left over to pay their mortgages and loans( The loans endorsed by this horrible Labour Government)
Then the Chancelor needs to sit down and do some simple arithmetic and decide what is it that is strangling the economy, then he needs to prioiritise what it is that will make this country prosper and then finally he goes to MR Brown and gives him the list of offensive expenditure that has to go.
Number 1: Remove our Armed Forces from foreign countries : saving = I'll leave that answer to the economists!
The PROBLEM with our current Chancelor is that he is not allowed a mind of his own, you can take that view further and apply it to the rest of the cabinet and the Majority of the Labour party, because their is one person and one person
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