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Salmond squares up to Blair over deal with Libya
Scotland's political leaders rounded on Tony Blair yesterday after First Minister Alex Salmond revealed that Britain had signed a deal with Libya which could lead to prisoners being transferred.
Mr Salmond said he had written to Downing Street over negotiations that could lead to Lockerbie bomber Abdelbaset Ali Mohmed
al Megrahi being transferred from his Scottish cell back to Libya.
The "Memorandum of Understanding (MoU) on the pursuit of agreements on judicial co-operation" was signed by the British and Libyan governments on Tuesday
of last week when Mr Blair was
visiting Colonel Gaddafi.
It specifically refers to "extradition and prisoner transfer" and commits the two sides to reaching a final agreement within a year.
No mention is made of any prisoner by name but the memorandum states: "The UK government will seek to obtain the agreement of all three jurisdictions within the UK in each of these cases."
Mr Salmond told MSPs: "I have today written to the Prime Minister expressing my concern that
it was felt appropriate for the
UK government to sign such a memorandum on matters clearly devolved to Scotland without any opportunity for this government and indeed for this parliament to contribute.
"The Lord Advocate is aware
of, and supports, my decision to write to the Prime Minister on this matter."
Mr Salmond said: "The question of prisoner transfer is particularly important, not least in relation to the case of Megrahi, the Libyan convicted in a Scottish court of the Lockerbie bombing which remains the most serious terrorist atrocity committed in the UK.
"At that time Scottish law officers and others, including the secretary general of the United Nations, gave assurances that any sentence imposed would be served in Scotland."
He pointed out that Megrahi's case was being review and could go back to the High Court in Edinburgh on appeal.
"This government is determined that decision on any individual case will continue to be made following the due process of Scots law. The integrity of that remains paramount."
Jack McConnell, Labour former First Minister, said: "If the new Scottish government was not informed in advance then that is extremely regrettable."
Conservative leader Annabel Goldie said: "Tony Blair has ridden roughshod over devolution and treated with contempt Scotland's distinct and independent legal system.
"This is unacceptable arrogance towards the Scottish government and Scotland's law officers.
"I am deeply alarmed by the actions of the Prime Minister. which on a practical, political and legal basis are shoddy and shabby conduct."
Alluding to the fact that the Prime Minister had failed to contact the First Minister on being elected, Liberal Democrat leader Nicol Stephen said: "To fail to phone on a matter of courtesy is one thing.
"To fail to phone on a matter on which both governments have a responsibility is a far more serious issue when so many people across the world still remember the horror of Lockerbie."
The Prime Minister's spokesman said: "There is a legal process currently under way in Scotland reviewing this case which is not expected to conclude until later this summer.
"Given that, it is totally wrong
to suggest we have reached
any agreement with the Libyan
government in this case. The memorandum of understanding agreed with the Libyan government last week does not cover this case."
Shadow Scottish Secretary David Mundell, whose Dumfriesshire, Clydesdale and Tweeddale constituency includes Lockerbie, said last night: "I am looking for clarification on the issue because my constituents would not
like Mr Magrahi to be dealt with in any other way but the due legal process."
A Scotland Office source said last night: "No prisoner will leave Scotland without the Scottish judicial system or ministers being involved in the decision and that's specifically in the MoU too. The SNP is being awful partial with this. This is what we predicted they would do. We said they would manufacture fights - that's what they're doing."
But Mr Salmond's aides insisted that the memo in no way ruled out Megrahi from any future prisoner transfer, and said the whole point of the protocols between Westminster and Holyrood was that consultation had to come before action, not after.
But Tam Dalyell, former
MP and father of the House of Commons, said: "My sympathies are with Mr Salmond. I had 17 Commons adjournment debates on Lockerbie. They were inhibited by being told that so many matters were for the Crown Office.
"It seems it is a matter for the Crown Office when it suits them not to answer awkward questions and a matter for Westminister when they see there is an advantage."
"I spent an hour and 10 minutes with Megrahi yesterday. He said of course he wants to go back, but he wants to go home as an innocent man, not one who has been branded a mass murderer.
"He said he does not want to go through the rest of his life with responsibility for something he did not do. The only way he can go back is through due legal process."
He added that if Downing Street were saying this development had nothing to do with Megrahi, it was "cant".
Tony Kelly, Megrahi's solicitor, said: "For us, this does not really make any difference. We continue to work towards a referral in order to argue our case before the court.
"Mr Salmond has called for the due legal process to be followed and was, quite rightly, jealously guarding Scots law. We are currently pursuing the due legal process. The memorandum of understanding does not change anything for us."
Transcript of the letter
Dear Prime Minister
Memorandum of Understanding - Libya
It is perhaps unfortunate that our first contact since the Scottish Parliamentary Elections is not on a more positive note. However, I am sure you will understand the importance of the issues raised in this letter.
My understanding is that the UK Government has recently signed a Memorandum of Understanding to commence negotiations in relation to judicial co-operation with Libya. That co-operation is apparently to extend to criminal, civil and commercial law and to include matters of extradition and prisoner transfer. As will be immediately obvious, all of those matters other than extradition are matters within the devolved competence of the Scottish Government. Even in relation to extradition, however, you will be aware that requests for extradition are made to the Lord Advocate in Scotland.
My concerns will be obvious.
First, despite it being known that Libya was seeking such an agreement, at no stage of which I am aware was there any consultation on such an agreement with the Scottish Government, with the Justice Department, or with me as First Minister, prior to the signing of the memorandum. Even if it is to be the position of the UK Government that there is no strict legal requirement for that consultation, it is surely a matter not just of courtesy but of good government that such consultation should have taken place.
Secondly, and leaving aside the other matters in the memorandum, the question of prisoner transfer is complex and sensitive. As I understand it, there are a number of Libyan nationals in UK custody. However our responsibility reflects particularly on Abdelbaset Ali Mohmed Al Megrahi who was convicted in a Scottish Court in 2001 of the Lockerbie bombing which remains the most serious terrorist atrocity carried out in the UK. I want to make you aware of the complexities of that case.
You will be aware that firm undertakings were given by the UK Government, by the Scottish Law Officers and indeed by the Secretary General of the United Nations that any sentence would be served in Scotland. To learn that the general issue of prisoner transfers with Libya might be under unilateral review without the opportunity to make a contribution to those deliberations is remarkable given the responsibilities devolved under the Scotland Act 1998. Moreover, it may have been brought to your attention that Abdelbaset Ali Mohmed Al Megrahi currently has a case before the Scottish Criminal Cases Review Commission which may result in his case being sent back on appeal to the High Court in Edinburgh for review. I am sure you would agree that the prosecution of the Lockerbie case was an endorsement of the substance and rigour of the Scottish legal system on an international stage. You have to be aware that it is thought that there is a danger that some could argue that this Memorandum impacts on due process.
Obviously, given the absence of any meaningful contact from your officials, there may be aspects of this of which I am unaware. I have seen the Memorandum and note the reference to the other jurisdictions within the UK and the need to obtain agreement in order to progress. That said, having identified the need for those discussions I confess to being slightly at a loss to understand why they did not take place in advance of any Memorandum being signed.
None of these concerns should obscure our shared interest in expediting matters and indeed the important work in seeking closer co-operation with Libya. I am happy to reiterate that commitment. However, any such change of approach must be carried through by dialogue and discussion, and with total regard for due process of law.
That said, it does appear obvious that almost no thought has been given to the role of the Scottish Government and the provisions of the Scotland Act before this Memorandum has been signed. I regret that and would ask that an early meeting be arranged - presumably between the Foreign Secretary and the Cabinet Secretary for Justice in the Scottish Government.
Moreover, the breakdown in communication on this matter does point to a need for more careful thought on issues in which the Scottish Government has responsibility and how that guidance can be usefully communicated to the UK Government in order to ensure that there is no repeat of this unfortunate process.
As ever, I remain more than willing to discuss these matters directly if you felt that would be helpful.
Alex Salmond MSP
St Andrew's House
Regent Road,
Edinburgh
© All rights reserved. Reproduction in whole or in part without
permission is prohibited.
Posted by: Argentocoxus, Caledonia on 10:55pm Thu 7 Jun 07
Notice Blair on TV hugging Gaddafi - "My new pal, says Bliar. "This is the way to divide and rule the Arabs."
Notice Blair on TV hugging Gaddafi - "My new pal, says Bliar. "This is the way to divide and rule the Arabs."
Posted by: Bruce, Glasgow on 11:02pm Thu 7 Jun 07
I just watched an astonishing interview on newsnight with Kirsty Wark (oor Jack's pal) cutting Alex Salmond off mid sentence cos she was losing her argument.... all done in the best venom bile filled style of Paxman..... c'mon Kirsty, I thought you were a better that that.... yer starting tae sound like that other shrill lassie Ms Alexander... motto....if yer los'n jist pitch it higher.... shocking
I just watched an astonishing interview on newsnight with Kirsty Wark (oor Jack's pal) cutting Alex Salmond off mid sentence cos she was losing her argument.... all done in the best venom bile filled style of Paxman..... c'mon Kirsty, I thought you were a better that that.... yer starting tae sound like that other shrill lassie Ms Alexander... motto....if yer los'n jist pitch it higher.... shocking
Posted by: sandeman, netherlands on 11:22pm Thu 7 Jun 07
Just saw this so called interview with Alex Salmond. I found Kirsty so rude; to make an innuendo and not let the First Minister answer! It was just plain disrespectful. I wonder where Kirsty is going on her next holiday.
Just saw this so called interview with Alex Salmond. I found Kirsty so rude; to make an innuendo and not let the First Minister answer! It was just plain disrespectful. I wonder where Kirsty is going on her next holiday.
Posted by: DougtheDug on 11:30pm Thu 7 Jun 07
Kirsty was having difficulty containing her anger at having to interview the man who kicked her holiday pal Jock McConnell into opposition.
She was also mad because she thought she had him over the barrel with relevations about the Memorandum but it just made her look stupid that all her "revelations" had already been made in a statement to parliament. She was in such a raj she nearly dropped her trolleys.
Kirsty was having difficulty containing her anger at having to interview the man who kicked her holiday pal Jock McConnell into opposition.
She was also mad because she thought she had him over the barrel with relevations about the Memorandum but it just made her look stupid that all her "revelations" had already been made in a statement to parliament. She was in such a raj she nearly dropped her trolleys.
Posted by: scotleag on 11:31pm Thu 7 Jun 07
Odd, that. From where I was sitting Kirsty was tearing him to pieces over his dissembling.
Look at these two statements. First the UK government n the memorandum
[italic]No mention is made of any prisoner by name but the memorandum states: "The UK government will seek to obtain the agreement of all three jurisdictions within the UK in each of these cases"[/italic]
Secondly, Eck
[italic]"it was felt appropriate for the UK government to sign such a memorandum on matters clearly devolved to Scotland"[/italic]
The first is clearly telling the Libyans that there are differing systems of law in the UK and that agreement has to be reached with them.
The second is suggesting that Scotland has a veto on foreign affairs. Salmond is deliberately ignoring the fact that the majority of Libyans - all except one in fact - in UK prisons are held elsewhere.
Let there be no misunderstanding. Salmond sought to give the impression this afternoon that the UK government had done a dal behind his back to secure the transfer of Megrahi. The memorandum makes absolutely clear that nothing of the sort has been done and the the constitutional position of Scots law has been in no way ignored. Far from it.
This is what we're going to get week after week for the next four years. The arch-opportunist seeking any ruse to exploit differences and stoke up the fires of nationalism.
The opposition leaders made one grave error. They accepted what Salmond said at face value. Experience should have told them not to expect honesty from this master of deceit.
Odd, that. From where I was sitting Kirsty was tearing him to pieces over his dissembling.
Look at these two statements. First the UK government n the memorandum
No mention is made of any prisoner by name but the memorandum states: "The UK government will seek to obtain the agreement of all three jurisdictions within the UK in each of these cases"
Secondly, Eck
"it was felt appropriate for the UK government to sign such a memorandum on matters clearly devolved to Scotland"
The first is clearly telling the Libyans that there are differing systems of law in the UK and that agreement has to be reached with them.
The second is suggesting that Scotland has a veto on foreign affairs. Salmond is deliberately ignoring the fact that the majority of Libyans - all except one in fact - in UK prisons are held elsewhere.
Let there be no misunderstanding. Salmond sought to give the impression this afternoon that the UK government had done a dal behind his back to secure the transfer of Megrahi. The memorandum makes absolutely clear that nothing of the sort has been done and the the constitutional position of Scots law has been in no way ignored. Far from it.
This is what we're going to get week after week for the next four years. The arch-opportunist seeking any ruse to exploit differences and stoke up the fires of nationalism.
The opposition leaders made one grave error. They accepted what Salmond said at face value. Experience should have told them not to expect honesty from this master of deceit.
Posted by: G on 11:34pm Thu 7 Jun 07
Jack McConnell, Labour former First Minister, said: "If the new Scottish government was not informed in advance then that is extremely regrettable."
TRANSLATION: "D*mn! I knew there was something I should've mentioned before I left office! If only I'd won, then no one would've had to have know."
Jack McConnell, Labour former First Minister, said: "If the new Scottish government was not informed in advance then that is extremely regrettable."
TRANSLATION: "D*mn! I knew there was something I should've mentioned before I left office! If only I'd won, then no one would've had to have know."
Posted by: scotleag on 11:35pm Thu 7 Jun 07
And this is the key to the deceit before the SNP bootlickers start moaning
[italic]"The UK government will seek to obtain the agreement of all three jurisdictions within the UK in each of these cases."[/italic]
When he made his statement, Salmond was aware of this - as Kirsty managed to drag out of him. Yet he NEVER mentioned this to the parliament. That was what duped the opposition. But as I said they should know better than to expect honesty from Alex Salmond.
And this is the key to the deceit before the SNP bootlickers start moaning
"The UK government will seek to obtain the agreement of all three jurisdictions within the UK in each of these cases."
When he made his statement, Salmond was aware of this - as Kirsty managed to drag out of him. Yet he NEVER mentioned this to the parliament. That was what duped the opposition. But as I said they should know better than to expect honesty from Alex Salmond.
Posted by: bruce mclaren, sussex on 11:38pm Thu 7 Jun 07
the artical states,
No mention is made of any prisoner by name but the memorandum states: "The UK government will seek to obtain the agreement of *all three jurisdictions within the UK* in each of these cases."
All three jurisdictions- Well Scotland is one of them- and magri is the only Lybian prisoner in Scotland- so why consult Scotland if not for Magri
the artical states,
No mention is made of any prisoner by name but the memorandum states: "The UK government will seek to obtain the agreement of *all three jurisdictions within the UK* in each of these cases."
All three jurisdictions- Well Scotland is one of them- and magri is the only Lybian prisoner in Scotland- so why consult Scotland if not for Magri
Posted by: ratzo on 11:40pm Thu 7 Jun 07
The implication is that AS was not properly informed, has mis-read the situation, and made a serious mistake. In so doing he reveals his true nature and exposed his anti-UK wrecking agenda.
Or, He's bang on the money, and has shown in a matter of a few days how Kirsty's little friend sold the country down the river for 8 years.
Gosh, which one can it be?
The implication is that AS was not properly informed, has mis-read the situation, and made a serious mistake. In so doing he reveals his true nature and exposed his anti-UK wrecking agenda.
Or, He's bang on the money, and has shown in a matter of a few days how Kirsty's little friend sold the country down the river for 8 years.
Gosh, which one can it be?
Posted by: bruce mclaren, sussex on 11:41pm Thu 7 Jun 07
Bruce & Sandieman, Kirsty Wark, Yeah I saw that too, absolutely appalling
Bruce & Sandieman, Kirsty Wark, Yeah I saw that too, absolutely appalling
Posted by: Red Mosquito, East Kilbride on 11:46pm Thu 7 Jun 07
scotleag on 11:31pm today
Why mention in the memo the need to consult the Scottish Judicial System if Megrahi was never intended to be part of any negotiation ?
scotleag on 11:31pm today
Why mention in the memo the need to consult the Scottish Judicial System if Megrahi was never intended to be part of any negotiation ?
Posted by: Biffa on 11:49pm Thu 7 Jun 07
Just watched the newsnight interview and Wark's dislike of Salmond was palpable.
I've never seen her so angry. She fecking well hates him. Her bias was verging on comedy.
So Eck, unpack the Bermudas and the sunscreen you're not getting an invite to Casa Wark any time soon. Maybe Anne Mackenzie from newsnicht will take you up to the butt and benn in Lewis to help with the peats instead, oh no, I forgot she hates you even more!
At least you knew that behind Paxman's bullying there didn't lurk an unreconstructed Unionist numpty with a grudge.
Wark and Mackenzie probably get fan mail from Pauline McNeil.
Pathetic.
Just watched the newsnight interview and Wark's dislike of Salmond was palpable.
I've never seen her so angry. She fecking well hates him. Her bias was verging on comedy.
So Eck, unpack the Bermudas and the sunscreen you're not getting an invite to Casa Wark any time soon. Maybe Anne Mackenzie from newsnicht will take you up to the butt and benn in Lewis to help with the peats instead, oh no, I forgot she hates you even more!
At least you knew that behind Paxman's bullying there didn't lurk an unreconstructed Unionist numpty with a grudge.
Wark and Mackenzie probably get fan mail from Pauline McNeil.
Pathetic.
Posted by: bruce mclaren, sussex on 11:51pm Thu 7 Jun 07
Ratzo, re Alex not being properly informed, the article states it was discussed with
"The Lord Advocate is aware of, and supports, my decision to write to the Prime Minister on this matter."
Is the lord advocate a lab supporter laying a trap, or a trained professional doing his job .
Ratzo, re Alex not being properly informed, the article states it was discussed with
"The Lord Advocate is aware of, and supports, my decision to write to the Prime Minister on this matter."
Is the lord advocate a lab supporter laying a trap, or a trained professional doing his job .
Posted by: Mike Simpson, Glasgow on 11:52pm Thu 7 Jun 07
Can't help feeling that Wee Eck (a.k.a Alex Salmond) doth protest too much, and he is manufacturing his anger over this issue. It's a true mark of the Master of Deceit ( I like that, accurate description of Eck) to create controversy in an attempt to stoke up discontent with Westminster. Think it's high time for Wee Eck to come down off his high chair and stop throwing away his rattle, we have had quite enough sabre rattling from Wee Eck to last a lifetime - time for him to calm down and try and act like a responsible First Minister with a rational perspective and behaving with some decency and decorum. Alas it might be too much for the man....
Can't help feeling that Wee Eck (a.k.a Alex Salmond) doth protest too much, and he is manufacturing his anger over this issue. It's a true mark of the Master of Deceit ( I like that, accurate description of Eck) to create controversy in an attempt to stoke up discontent with Westminster. Think it's high time for Wee Eck to come down off his high chair and stop throwing away his rattle, we have had quite enough sabre rattling from Wee Eck to last a lifetime - time for him to calm down and try and act like a responsible First Minister with a rational perspective and behaving with some decency and decorum. Alas it might be too much for the man....
Posted by: Bruce, Glasgow on 12:04am Fri 8 Jun 07
Mike, I'm not clear from your response on what you actually think of this memorandum, can you keep yer name calling tae the playground....
Mike, I'm not clear from your response on what you actually think of this memorandum, can you keep yer name calling tae the playground....
Posted by: Glasgowgreen on 12:09am Fri 8 Jun 07
Scotleag and Mike Simpson, you two should be very worried , Tony in his sublime arrogance, is handing Scotland to Alex Salmond on a big plate.
Scotleag and Mike Simpson, you two should be very worried , Tony in his sublime arrogance, is handing Scotland to Alex Salmond on a big plate.
Posted by: subrosa, Perth on 12:10am Fri 8 Jun 07
What dreadful behaviour from Kirsty Wark, during her 'interview' with Alex Salmond on Newsnight. Pure emotional bias and bordering on hysteria. The point Alex Salmond is making is that the UK Government has made an agreement with Libya to discuss their UK prisoners without the courtesy of informing the Scottish Parliament prior to this official agreement. I consider Alex Salmond to be perfectly correct in bringing this to the attention of the Parliament as it is more than insulting for Scotland to be treated in this manner by Mr Blair. It appears many English Labour MPs support Mr Salmond also and George Fowkes had to reluctantly agree the whole matter had been handled very poorly. Thank you Alex Salmond for speaking for the interests of Scotland. It's about time someone did!
What dreadful behaviour from Kirsty Wark, during her 'interview' with Alex Salmond on Newsnight. Pure emotional bias and bordering on hysteria. The point Alex Salmond is making is that the UK Government has made an agreement with Libya to discuss their UK prisoners without the courtesy of informing the Scottish Parliament prior to this official agreement. I consider Alex Salmond to be perfectly correct in bringing this to the attention of the Parliament as it is more than insulting for Scotland to be treated in this manner by Mr Blair. It appears many English Labour MPs support Mr Salmond also and George Fowkes had to reluctantly agree the whole matter had been handled very poorly. Thank you Alex Salmond for speaking for the interests of Scotland. It's about time someone did!
Posted by: subrosa, Perth on 12:11am Fri 8 Jun 07
What dreadful behaviour from Kirsty Wark, during her 'interview' with Alex Salmond on Newsnight. Pure emotional bias and bordering on hysteria. The point Alex Salmond is making is that the UK Government has made an agreement with Libya to discuss their UK prisoners without the courtesy of informing the Scottish Parliament prior to this official agreement. I consider Alex Salmond to be perfectly correct in bringing this to the attention of the Parliament as it is more than insulting for Scotland to be treated in this manner by Mr Blair. It appears many English Labour MPs support Mr Salmond also and George Fowkes had to reluctantly agree the whole matter had been handled very poorly. Thank you Alex Salmond for speaking for the interests of Scotland. It's about time someone did!
What dreadful behaviour from Kirsty Wark, during her 'interview' with Alex Salmond on Newsnight. Pure emotional bias and bordering on hysteria. The point Alex Salmond is making is that the UK Government has made an agreement with Libya to discuss their UK prisoners without the courtesy of informing the Scottish Parliament prior to this official agreement. I consider Alex Salmond to be perfectly correct in bringing this to the attention of the Parliament as it is more than insulting for Scotland to be treated in this manner by Mr Blair. It appears many English Labour MPs support Mr Salmond also and George Fowkes had to reluctantly agree the whole matter had been handled very poorly. Thank you Alex Salmond for speaking for the interests of Scotland. It's about time someone did!
Posted by: stonehaven on 12:29am Fri 8 Jun 07
Bruce, I was amazed at Kirsty. She was almost hysterical! Very scary and even Alex Salmond was spooked.
Bruce, I was amazed at Kirsty. She was almost hysterical! Very scary and even Alex Salmond was spooked.
Posted by: stonehaven on 12:32am Fri 8 Jun 07
Surely Kirsty is now a busted flush!
Surely Kirsty is now a busted flush!
Posted by: ratzo on 12:34am Fri 8 Jun 07
Just about every news agency on the planet is reporting that Megrahi might well be on his way to Libya. Truth is, Blair's screwed up again. and Salmond's right to hold him to account.
Just about every news agency on the planet is reporting that Megrahi might well be on his way to Libya. Truth is, Blair's screwed up again. and Salmond's right to hold him to account.
Posted by: Anne, Glasgow on 12:36am Fri 8 Jun 07
I watched too Kirsty Wark's interview with Alex Salmond. Her behaviour was dreadful. Whatever happened to impartiality in interviewing. She sounded a bit like Pauline McNeill. Shouldn't an interviewer keep their political bias out of interviews and maintain a professional position. Maybe she could learn a trick or two from Iain McWhirter, Brian Taylor, Reveel Anderson - they could teach her how to interview and commentate.
I watched too Kirsty Wark's interview with Alex Salmond. Her behaviour was dreadful. Whatever happened to impartiality in interviewing. She sounded a bit like Pauline McNeill. Shouldn't an interviewer keep their political bias out of interviews and maintain a professional position. Maybe she could learn a trick or two from Iain McWhirter, Brian Taylor, Reveel Anderson - they could teach her how to interview and commentate.
Posted by: stonehaven on 12:37am Fri 8 Jun 07
Anne, complain to the BBC. I have already!
Anne, complain to the BBC. I have already!
Posted by: Oscar, Nine miles from Lockerbie. on 12:42am Fri 8 Jun 07
NAME ONE OTHER LIBYAN PRISONER HELD IN A UNITED KINGDOM JAIL?
Just one will do, then I'll accept that this was a knee jerk reaction from the First Minister.
Wark and McKenzie were disgraceful tonight, with no attempt being made to hide their obvious personal dislike of OUR First Minister. For Scottish Labour to prise loathsome toad Baron Foulkes away from the bottle to posture and cringe like a posturing mountebank shows how far they have slipped from their core voters. His best contribution to Newsnicht was to suggest that OUR First Minister should have picked up the phone and called Downing Street, how far can one stretch incredulity?
[italic]bruce mclaren, sussex: The Lord Advocate is Eilish Angiolini, she was a Labour apointee, who our First Misister has retained but has kept her from sitting in the Scottish Government Cabinet, err she's alos a wummin![/italic]
NAME ONE OTHER LIBYAN PRISONER HELD IN A UNITED KINGDOM JAIL?
Just one will do, then I'll accept that this was a knee jerk reaction from the First Minister.
Wark and McKenzie were disgraceful tonight, with no attempt being made to hide their obvious personal dislike of OUR First Minister. For Scottish Labour to prise loathsome toad Baron Foulkes away from the bottle to posture and cringe like a posturing mountebank shows how far they have slipped from their core voters. His best contribution to Newsnicht was to suggest that OUR First Minister should have picked up the phone and called Downing Street, how far can one stretch incredulity?
bruce mclaren, sussex: The Lord Advocate is Eilish Angiolini, she was a Labour apointee, who our First Misister has retained but has kept her from sitting in the Scottish Government Cabinet, err she's alos a wummin! Posted by: DougtheDug on 12:45am Fri 8 Jun 07
ratzo:
As far as I can make out from the TV news, the memorandum said, "All Libyan prisoners", and this is what the News organisations have picked up on.
Now Alex's made it news in the UK, all of a sudden Blair and co. are claiming that Abdel Basset Ali al-Megrahi is not included.
But there's been no piece of paper been released to show that they're not making it up on the hoof as the publicity gets bad. At this point the, "of course we never meant al-Megrahi", line looks like desperate damage limitation from number 10.
ratzo:
As far as I can make out from the TV news, the memorandum said, "All Libyan prisoners", and this is what the News organisations have picked up on.
Now Alex's made it news in the UK, all of a sudden Blair and co. are claiming that Abdel Basset Ali al-Megrahi is not included.
But there's been no piece of paper been released to show that they're not making it up on the hoof as the publicity gets bad. At this point the, "of course we never meant al-Megrahi", line looks like desperate damage limitation from number 10.
Posted by: Steven, Scotland on 12:46am Fri 8 Jun 07
I have also complained to the BBC over the conduct of this "interview" and would encourage others who feel strongly about this to do so. Kirsty Wark was absolutely appalling and the whole tone of the segment left much to be desired, immediately painting Salmond as the instigator of this incident when in fact it was a failure by Blair to consult the Scottish government which sparked it.
I have also complained to the BBC over the conduct of this "interview" and would encourage others who feel strongly about this to do so. Kirsty Wark was absolutely appalling and the whole tone of the segment left much to be desired, immediately painting Salmond as the instigator of this incident when in fact it was a failure by Blair to consult the Scottish government which sparked it.
Posted by: Anne, Glasgow on 12:46am Fri 8 Jun 07
Thanks Stonehaven. Will do.
Thanks Stonehaven. Will do.
Posted by: Stephen on 12:51am Fri 8 Jun 07
salmond's point is the uk signed a memorandum on a process of consultation without PRIOR dialog with scottish ministers. it's rather like promising a friend he can borrow your parents car then adding as an afterthought "i'll mention it to my parents of course, but consider it done!" except this isn't about a car, its about the transfer on a prisoner convicted of the worst terrorsit atrocity in uk history.
you can't get any more sensitive than that.
as for kirsty wark, the way she ended her interview with salmond was juvenile in the extreme drowning him out by repeating the word "exactly!" over and over as if this qualified her allegations.
salmond's point is the uk signed a memorandum on a process of consultation without PRIOR dialog with scottish ministers. it's rather like promising a friend he can borrow your parents car then adding as an afterthought "i'll mention it to my parents of course, but consider it done!" except this isn't about a car, its about the transfer on a prisoner convicted of the worst terrorsit atrocity in uk history.
you can't get any more sensitive than that.
as for kirsty wark, the way she ended her interview with salmond was juvenile in the extreme drowning him out by repeating the word "exactly!" over and over as if this qualified her allegations.
Posted by: Willie, Glasgow on 12:52am Fri 8 Jun 07
"We said they would manufacture fights - that's what they're doing" says a source in Dougie Alexander's 'Scotland Office'.
Manufacture fights? This is a blatant disregard by the UK Prime Minister and an insult to Scotland. At last someone has had the guts to stand up to London on our behalf. If anyone has been "manufacturing fights", over this issue and the carbon capture plant, it is the London government.
"We said they would manufacture fights - that's what they're doing" says a source in Dougie Alexander's 'Scotland Office'.
Manufacture fights? This is a blatant disregard by the UK Prime Minister and an insult to Scotland. At last someone has had the guts to stand up to London on our behalf. If anyone has been "manufacturing fights", over this issue and the carbon capture plant, it is the London government.
Posted by: James A, Edinburgh on 12:55am Fri 8 Jun 07
This is actually kinda funny. I complained before I came on here. I wonder how many they're going to get.
This is actually kinda funny. I complained before I came on here. I wonder how many they're going to get.
Posted by: Frank on 12:58am Fri 8 Jun 07
Nice to see the SNP activists ignoring the text of the memorandum as usual. The memorandum makes clear it will gather the views of the Scottish Exec before making a decision on Megrahi. Salmond's failure to make this clear to Parliament borderlines on misleading Parliament - I doubt Goldie and McConnell would have made the statements they did had they been given the full information. Come on Eck, even I expected better from you.
The Britain-Libya memorandum says, and I'll put it in bold for the SNP crowd: [bold]The UK government will seek to obtain the agreement of all three jurisdictions within the UK in each of these cases.[/bold]
Nice to see the SNP activists ignoring the text of the memorandum as usual. The memorandum makes clear it will gather the views of the Scottish Exec before making a decision on Megrahi. Salmond's failure to make this clear to Parliament borderlines on misleading Parliament - I doubt Goldie and McConnell would have made the statements they did had they been given the full information. Come on Eck, even I expected better from you.
The Britain-Libya memorandum says, and I'll put it in bold for the SNP crowd:
The UK government will seek to obtain the agreement of all three jurisdictions within the UK in each of these cases. Posted by: DougtheDug on 1:00am Fri 8 Jun 07
To email Newsnight about Kirsty Wark go here:
http://news.bbc.co.u
k/1/hi/programmes/ne
wsnight/4969804.stm
To email Newsnight about Kirsty Wark go here:
http://news.bbc.co.u
k/1/hi/programmes/ne
wsnight/4969804.stm
Posted by: stonehaven on 1:01am Fri 8 Jun 07
Let's be honest. It's actually great cannon fodder for the SNP!
Let's be honest. It's actually great cannon fodder for the SNP!
Posted by: PDQ, Edinburgh on 1:01am Fri 8 Jun 07
This was simply appalling conduct of an "interview" by Kirsty Wark with Alex Salmond. She could at least [italic]try[/italic] to appear to be a professional and impartial interviewer.
She seemed so caught up in the emotion of her long series of accusations repeatedly fired at Salmond, without appearing to listen or hear his answers, that she forgot the audience at home who were witnessing her rant.
It makes me think that it was a good call not to let her anchor the BBC Scottish Election coverage, after the publicity surrounding the holiday taken at her villa with her family friend Jack McConnel.
[bold]If Kirst Wark cannot restrain herself from letting her personal views and emotion get in the way, then the BBC should also consider whether she remains suitable to conduct political interviews.[/bold]
This was simply appalling conduct of an "interview" by Kirsty Wark with Alex Salmond. She could at least
try to appear to be a professional and impartial interviewer.
She seemed so caught up in the emotion of her long series of accusations repeatedly fired at Salmond, without appearing to listen or hear his answers, that she forgot the audience at home who were witnessing her rant.
It makes me think that it was a good call not to let her anchor the BBC Scottish Election coverage, after the publicity surrounding the holiday taken at her villa with her family friend Jack McConnel.
If Kirst Wark cannot restrain herself from letting her personal views and emotion get in the way, then the BBC should also consider whether she remains suitable to conduct political interviews. Posted by: Tom McAlister on 1:02am Fri 8 Jun 07
.
Interesting comment uttered by Andrew Neil on BBC 1, "This Week " political programme in response to the comment that Scotland appears to have a government now as opposed to the recent unlamented, lap dog "Joke's" regime.
Quote," We can look forward to more guerilla warfare in the future".
How condescending quaint of Mr neil. It appears that the old order will die the death of a thousand cuts before it fadeth away. Scotland has moved on. It's time some folk realised that and accomodated themselves to the realities of the new situation that this increasingly disunited kingdom dictates.
Personally, I have never been convinced that a former part time bit player had any significant role of anything where the tragedy of Lockerbie is concerned. I may be cynical in my perception that murderers may have escape due process of law in the grand scheme of political expediency, incompetence and coverup but then what do I know.
Megrahi is but a pawn caught up in events beyond his comprehension, understanding or control and justice has been ill served by his "propaganda" value on the world stage.Perhaps many of the Lockerbie victims loved ones will also have the perception that justice has taken second place to political expediency and who could blame them for thinking thus.
.
.
Interesting comment uttered by Andrew Neil on BBC 1, "This Week " political programme in response to the comment that Scotland appears to have a government now as opposed to the recent unlamented, lap dog "Joke's" regime.
Quote," We can look forward to more guerilla warfare in the future".
How condescending quaint of Mr neil. It appears that the old order will die the death of a thousand cuts before it fadeth away. Scotland has moved on. It's time some folk realised that and accomodated themselves to the realities of the new situation that this increasingly disunited kingdom dictates.
Personally, I have never been convinced that a former part time bit player had any significant role of anything where the tragedy of Lockerbie is concerned. I may be cynical in my perception that murderers may have escape due process of law in the grand scheme of political expediency, incompetence and coverup but then what do I know.
Megrahi is but a pawn caught up in events beyond his comprehension, understanding or control and justice has been ill served by his "propaganda" value on the world stage.Perhaps many of the Lockerbie victims loved ones will also have the perception that justice has taken second place to political expediency and who could blame them for thinking thus.
.
Posted by: James A, Edinburgh on 1:05am Fri 8 Jun 07
What Steven said is exactly the point. Kenny MacAskill, or whoever would decide, would be presented with "Look, we want to give up this guy, so just play along. If we back out now we're going to end up with an international incident"
What Steven said is exactly the point. Kenny MacAskill, or whoever would decide, would be presented with "Look, we want to give up this guy, so just play along. If we back out now we're going to end up with an international incident"
Posted by: Oscar, Kirsty Wark's unstudded bellybutton on 1:07am Fri 8 Jun 07
Poor Kirsty Wark, her golden handcuffs deal signed with Maggie Cunninghame at BBC Scotland coming to an end. Her former house guest is no longer in power and her long held antipathy towards Alex Salmond laid bare for the nation to see.
As others above have pointed out her rudeness, what needs to be commented on is her visceral hatred for the new changes in Scotland.
Chummying up to Donald Dewar, being part of the elite who got to choose the design of the Parliament, being protected from the Frasier Inquiry by Ewan Angus and John McCormick over the Wark Clements Production of the Parliament fiasco and "who said what" is just the tip of the proverbial iceberg.
It's Time Kirsty, to wave goodbye to that endless Glasgow-London-Glasg
ow-London whirlygig, and retire with Alan and the weans to the finca. You've made enough out of the public purse for substandard broadcasting commissioned by old chums. I can't see you getting any new invitres to tender any longer, can you?
I expect most of us will get to see the highlights and lowlights of your interview with Salmond on youtube. It's great t'internet intit?
It's a great pity you didn't exhibit the same passion when you interviewed Thatcher.
Poor Kirsty Wark, her golden handcuffs deal signed with Maggie Cunninghame at BBC Scotland coming to an end. Her former house guest is no longer in power and her long held antipathy towards Alex Salmond laid bare for the nation to see.
As others above have pointed out her rudeness, what needs to be commented on is her visceral hatred for the new changes in Scotland.
Chummying up to Donald Dewar, being part of the elite who got to choose the design of the Parliament, being protected from the Frasier Inquiry by Ewan Angus and John McCormick over the Wark Clements Production of the Parliament fiasco and "who said what" is just the tip of the proverbial iceberg.
It's Time Kirsty, to wave goodbye to that endless Glasgow-London-Glasg
ow-London whirlygig, and retire with Alan and the weans to the finca. You've made enough out of the public purse for substandard broadcasting commissioned by old chums. I can't see you getting any new invitres to tender any longer, can you?
I expect most of us will get to see the highlights and lowlights of your interview with Salmond on youtube. It's great t'internet intit?
It's a great pity you didn't exhibit the same passion when you interviewed Thatcher.
Posted by: DougtheDug on 1:08am Fri 8 Jun 07
Frank:
[quote]Nice to see the SNP activists ignoring the text of the memorandum as usual. The memorandum makes clear it will gather the views of the Scottish Exec before making a decision on Megrahi. Salmond's failure to make this clear to Parliament borderlines on misleading Parliament - I doubt Goldie and McConnell would have made the statements they did had they been given the full information.[/quote]
1. When he was allowed to speak in his Newsnight "interview" by Kirsty Wark, Alex Salmond made it plain that this information had been made available to all in the Scottish Parliament. The jurisdiction information was not some Newsnight "scoop".
2. "...before making a decision on Megrahi. " Keep up with the times Frank. Phony Tony is now claiming Megrahi was excluded from the deal. It was just written in invisible ink on the memorandum.
Frank:
Nice to see the SNP activists ignoring the text of the memorandum as usual. The memorandum makes clear it will gather the views of the Scottish Exec before making a decision on Megrahi. Salmond's failure to make this clear to Parliament borderlines on misleading Parliament - I doubt Goldie and McConnell would have made the statements they did had they been given the full information.
1. When he was allowed to speak in his Newsnight "interview" by Kirsty Wark, Alex Salmond made it plain that this information had been made available to all in the Scottish Parliament. The jurisdiction information was not some Newsnight "scoop".
2. "...before making a decision on Megrahi. " Keep up with the times Frank. Phony Tony is now claiming Megrahi was excluded from the deal. It was just written in invisible ink on the memorandum.
Posted by: James A, Edinburgh on 1:09am Fri 8 Jun 07
Hey Frank, 12:58
Read my previous post at 1:05 for the reason this[bold] is[/bold] a big deal
Hey Frank, 12:58
Read my previous post at 1:05 for the reason this
is a big deal
Posted by: Over The Water, Hebrides on 1:12am Fri 8 Jun 07
Kirsty Wark let herself down badly.
So did BBC Newsnight boss Peter Barron, letting Ms Wark, friend and fellow holiday companion of Jack McConnell, interview Alex Salmond in the first place. It had the look of bias; it had the tone of bias; it had the smell of bias.
The interview was a disgrace. BBC Newsnight is usually much more on the ball.
For anyone that saw the Kirsty Wark lose it, I would respectfully suggest an email to:-
peter.barron@bbc.co.
uk
Or
newsnight@bbc.co.uk
Kirsty Wark let herself down badly.
So did BBC Newsnight boss Peter Barron, letting Ms Wark, friend and fellow holiday companion of Jack McConnell, interview Alex Salmond in the first place. It had the look of bias; it had the tone of bias; it had the smell of bias.
The interview was a disgrace. BBC Newsnight is usually much more on the ball.
For anyone that saw the Kirsty Wark lose it, I would respectfully suggest an email to:-
peter.barron@bbc.co.
uk
Or
newsnight@bbc.co.uk
Posted by: Steven, Scotland on 1:15am Fri 8 Jun 07
I would suggest following the official BBC complaints procedure.
http://www.bbc.co.uk
/complaints/make_com
plaint_step1.shtml
Make it official and request a response.
I would suggest following the official BBC complaints procedure.
http://www.bbc.co.uk
/complaints/make_com
plaint_step1.shtml
Make it official and request a response.
Posted by: Jo, Glasgow on 1:22am Fri 8 Jun 07
Kirsty Wark's unprofessional behaviour should be investigated by the BBC and she should be thoroughly reprimanded for it. If everyone who has remarked on it contacts the BBC about it then they will have to do something surely, especially when her friendship with the previous First Minister was so widely publicised.
Kirsty Wark's unprofessional behaviour should be investigated by the BBC and she should be thoroughly reprimanded for it. If everyone who has remarked on it contacts the BBC about it then they will have to do something surely, especially when her friendship with the previous First Minister was so widely publicised.
Posted by: edward, Edinburgh on 1:23am Fri 8 Jun 07
[quote][bold]scotleag[/bold] wrote:
Odd, that. From where I was sitting Kirsty was tearing him to pieces over his dissembling. Look at these two statements. First the UK government n the memorandum [italic]No mention is made of any prisoner by name but the memorandum states: \"The UK government will seek to obtain the agreement of all three jurisdictions within the UK in each of these cases\"[/italic] Secondly, Eck [italic]\"it was felt appropriate for the UK government to sign such a memorandum on matters clearly devolved to Scotland\"[/italic] The first is clearly telling the Libyans that there are differing systems of law in the UK and that agreement has to be reached with them. The second is suggesting that Scotland has a veto on foreign affairs. Salmond is deliberately ignoring the fact that the majority of Libyans - all except one in fact - in UK prisons are held elsewhere. Let there be no misunderstanding. Salmond sought to give the impression this afternoon that the UK government had done a dal behind his back to secure the transfer of Megrahi. The memorandum makes absolutely clear that nothing of the sort has been done and the the constitutional position of Scots law has been in no way ignored. Far from it. This is what we\'re going to get week after week for the next four years. The arch-opportunist seeking any ruse to exploit differences and stoke up the fires of nationalism. The opposition leaders made one grave error. They accepted what Salmond said at face value. Experience should have told them not to expect honesty from this master of deceit.[/quote] Slightly incorrect!
First off the memorandum of understanding signed by Blair was being kept secret and did not come to light until late on. It was even banned from the House of Commons library as the Home office had placed an embargo on it!
The point was that when more details started to surface, Alex Salmond was unable to reveal all, as it is the job of the Prime Minister, currently Blair.
It was also a fact that the only Libyan prisoner that we have is the one currently in Greenock Jail, being Abdelbaset Ali Mohmed al Megrahi . Who receives a visit from the Glasgow based Libyan consul at least once a week and who has been advised by said consul that there was a release imminent!
The fact is that Tony Blair should have had a quick word with Alex Salmond before he went to Libya, outlining the memorandum of understanding as it did affect the Scottish judicary.
No amount of weazely words currently coming out the Labour scum spin meisters is going to sort this.
Kirsty Wark WAS a complete disgrace!, she allowed her own political beliefs to cloud her discussion to the point of outright rudeness, which culminating in cutting of the First Minister, some how I would not see her doing that to either the Prime Minsiter or the Prime minister in waiting
scotleag wrote:
Odd, that. From where I was sitting Kirsty was tearing him to pieces over his dissembling. Look at these two statements. First the UK government n the memorandum No mention is made of any prisoner by name but the memorandum states: \"The UK government will seek to obtain the agreement of all three jurisdictions within the UK in each of these cases\" Secondly, Eck \"it was felt appropriate for the UK government to sign such a memorandum on matters clearly devolved to Scotland\" The first is clearly telling the Libyans that there are differing systems of law in the UK and that agreement has to be reached with them. The second is suggesting that Scotland has a veto on foreign affairs. Salmond is deliberately ignoring the fact that the majority of Libyans - all except one in fact - in UK prisons are held elsewhere. Let there be no misunderstanding. Salmond sought to give the impression this afternoon that the UK government had done a dal behind his back to secure the transfer of Megrahi. The memorandum makes absolutely clear that nothing of the sort has been done and the the constitutional position of Scots law has been in no way ignored. Far from it. This is what we\'re going to get week after week for the next four years. The arch-opportunist seeking any ruse to exploit differences and stoke up the fires of nationalism. The opposition leaders made one grave error. They accepted what Salmond said at face value. Experience should have told them not to expect honesty from this master of deceit.
Slightly incorrect!
First off the memorandum of understanding signed by Blair was being kept secret and did not come to light until late on. It was even banned from the House of Commons library as the Home office had placed an embargo on it!
The point was that when more details started to surface, Alex Salmond was unable to reveal all, as it is the job of the Prime Minister, currently Blair.
It was also a fact that the only Libyan prisoner that we have is the one currently in Greenock Jail, being Abdelbaset Ali Mohmed al Megrahi . Who receives a visit from the Glasgow based Libyan consul at least once a week and who has been advised by said consul that there was a release imminent!
The fact is that Tony Blair should have had a quick word with Alex Salmond before he went to Libya, outlining the memorandum of understanding as it did affect the Scottish judicary.
No amount of weazely words currently coming out the Labour scum spin meisters is going to sort this.
Kirsty Wark WAS a complete disgrace!, she allowed her own political beliefs to cloud her discussion to the point of outright rudeness, which culminating in cutting of the First Minister, some how I would not see her doing that to either the Prime Minsiter or the Prime minister in waiting
Posted by: stonehaven on 1:29am Fri 8 Jun 07
Well said edward, I totally agree.
Well said edward, I totally agree.
Posted by: Edward, Edinburgh on 1:29am Fri 8 Jun 07
[quote][bold]scotleag[/bold] wrote:
And this is the key to the deceit before the SNP bootlickers start moaning [italic]"The UK government will seek to obtain the agreement of all three jurisdictions within the UK in each of these cases."[/italic] When he made his statement, Salmond was aware of this - as Kirsty managed to drag out of him. Yet he NEVER mentioned this to the parliament. That was what duped the opposition. But as I said they should know better than to expect honesty from Alex Salmond.[/quote] You really dont get it do you!
Talk about thick as the proverbial short plank!
First of, Alex Salmond was not allowed to say or reveal what was in the Memorandum
Secondly it was more about Westminster and in particular Blair consulting with the Scottish Government about an issue that is particular to Scotland and Scots law
After all the only Libyan in jail is the one in Scotland!
What was interesting was that none of the media outlets BBC nor SKY were aware of the Memorandum that Blair signed nor its implications, as it had been kept secret until Alex Salmond had revealed its existance
scotleag wrote:
And this is the key to the deceit before the SNP bootlickers start moaning "The UK government will seek to obtain the agreement of all three jurisdictions within the UK in each of these cases." When he made his statement, Salmond was aware of this - as Kirsty managed to drag out of him. Yet he NEVER mentioned this to the parliament. That was what duped the opposition. But as I said they should know better than to expect honesty from Alex Salmond.
You really dont get it do you!
Talk about thick as the proverbial short plank!
First of, Alex Salmond was not allowed to say or reveal what was in the Memorandum
Secondly it was more about Westminster and in particular Blair consulting with the Scottish Government about an issue that is particular to Scotland and Scots law
After all the only Libyan in jail is the one in Scotland!
What was interesting was that none of the media outlets BBC nor SKY were aware of the Memorandum that Blair signed nor its implications, as it had been kept secret until Alex Salmond had revealed its existance
Posted by: AM, Glasgow on 1:43am Fri 8 Jun 07
Edward
There are about 25 Libyans in British jails. Al-Megrahi is the only Libyan currently imprisoned in Scotland.
Edward
There are about 25 Libyans in British jails. Al-Megrahi is the only Libyan currently imprisoned in Scotland.
Posted by: alan reid, NZ on 1:55am Fri 8 Jun 07
Once again Labour/Tory/Libdem clones trying to savage the first Minister of Scotland because of what? He stands up for Scotland.
It's clear even though I can't watch Scottish TV down here, but can only read what's going on, that Scotland at last has got someone who is no ones poodle. Keep goin Alex, stick it to them.
Scotleag, master of deceit? not Alex, but maybe perhaps Tony. Who out of these two have lied to us in the past?
Once again Labour/Tory/Libdem clones trying to savage the first Minister of Scotland because of what? He stands up for Scotland.
It's clear even though I can't watch Scottish TV down here, but can only read what's going on, that Scotland at last has got someone who is no ones poodle. Keep goin Alex, stick it to them.
Scotleag, master of deceit? not Alex, but maybe perhaps Tony. Who out of these two have lied to us in the past?
Posted by: WJ, Ayrshire on 1:55am Fri 8 Jun 07
There's a very simple question for those who criticise Salmond's stance in this matter;
Where, in the memorandum does it state that Abdel Basset Ali al-Megrahi is excluded from the memorandum?
If he is not clearly excluded from all agreed discussions he is, by definition, included in said discussions.
As for Kirsty Wark's behaviour - I have never, in more than twenty years of watching political broadcasting, seen a more biased attack on a sitting government minister. Certainly couldn't be called an interview - that would require allowing the other participant adequate time to respond at some point.
A truly shameful piece of broadcasting on her part.
There's a very simple question for those who criticise Salmond's stance in this matter;
Where, in the memorandum does it state that Abdel Basset Ali al-Megrahi is excluded from the memorandum?
If he is not clearly excluded from all agreed discussions he is, by definition, included in said discussions.
As for Kirsty Wark's behaviour - I have never, in more than twenty years of watching political broadcasting, seen a more biased attack on a sitting government minister. Certainly couldn't be called an interview - that would require allowing the other participant adequate time to respond at some point.
A truly shameful piece of broadcasting on her part.
Posted by: Jason Jack, Scotland on 2:00am Fri 8 Jun 07
AM did your bosses have to wake you up for that inconsequential piece of S...pin
AM did your bosses have to wake you up for that inconsequential piece of S...pin
Posted by: bobwmac, Stirlingshire/New Mexico on 2:00am Fri 8 Jun 07
As First Minister, is Alex Salmond privy to the fact that Abdelbaset Ali Mohmed al Megrahi did not do the crime for which is presently imprisoned? I hope not. Stay clear of this one and the Shirley McKie case, Alex, for something is about to hit the fan.
As First Minister, is Alex Salmond privy to the fact that Abdelbaset Ali Mohmed al Megrahi did not do the crime for which is presently imprisoned? I hope not. Stay clear of this one and the Shirley McKie case, Alex, for something is about to hit the fan.
Posted by: Brian Blessed, Locked out of Casa Wark on 2:00am Fri 8 Jun 07
Kirsty looking a prat on Newsnight:
http :// www .youtube. com/ watch?v=FnQPptuG8uM
(take the spaces out)
Kirsty looking a prat on Newsnight:
http :// www .youtube. com/ watch?v=FnQPptuG8uM
(take the spaces out)
Posted by: Edward, Edinburgh on 2:03am Fri 8 Jun 07
What I found amazing was that you could actually see the New Labour spin machine swing into action.
After the Alex Salmond speech in parliament, the BBC and SKY were a caught on the hop as they rely , evidently of Downing Street hand outs. Even the politicians such as George Foulkes was on his own, so naturaly supported what Alex Salmond was saying.
But by later in the evening and especially by the 10 pm news hour onall channels Downing Street spin machine got back to speed and had churned out what had been a secret memorandum and breifed the usual suspects, including and obviously Kirsty Wark and Anne Mackenzie on the BBC, plus George Foulkes, who even admited to phoning up Downing street to get his breifing and his own copy (which he waived about) of the memorandum. The classic from 'Ill have a double' George was that he will keep the British Government informed of what happens in the Scottish Parliament (yes he actually said that on Newsnight Scotland), like some Government placement of the 19th century
What I found amazing was that you could actually see the New Labour spin machine swing into action.
After the Alex Salmond speech in parliament, the BBC and SKY were a caught on the hop as they rely , evidently of Downing Street hand outs. Even the politicians such as George Foulkes was on his own, so naturaly supported what Alex Salmond was saying.
But by later in the evening and especially by the 10 pm news hour onall channels Downing Street spin machine got back to speed and had churned out what had been a secret memorandum and breifed the usual suspects, including and obviously Kirsty Wark and Anne Mackenzie on the BBC, plus George Foulkes, who even admited to phoning up Downing street to get his breifing and his own copy (which he waived about) of the memorandum. The classic from 'Ill have a double' George was that he will keep the British Government informed of what happens in the Scottish Parliament (yes he actually said that on Newsnight Scotland), like some Government placement of the 19th century
Posted by: Edward, Edinburgh on 2:05am Fri 8 Jun 07
[quote][bold]AM[/bold] wrote:
Edward There are about 25 Libyans in British jails. Al-Megrahi is the only Libyan currently imprisoned in Scotland.[/quote] Can you name them and which jails there in?
AM wrote:
Edward There are about 25 Libyans in British jails. Al-Megrahi is the only Libyan currently imprisoned in Scotland.
Can you name them and which jails there in?
Posted by: neil robertson, Dundee, Scotland on 2:33am Fri 8 Jun 07
I have to agree that Kirsty's hectoring of Alex Salmond was indeed out of character. As for picking fights, the 'English version' of that same Newsnight programme then went on to sing the praises of The British Council's efforts at 'cultural diplomacy in action' over in Venice at the Biennale. No mention of Scotland, Wales or Northern Ireland but a lot of tosh from Andrea Rose of The British Council who seems to have ignored advice and selected Tracy Emin for the so-called 'British' Pavilion. The result is scarcely representative of the UK unless of course the 60 drawings she dashed off in five hours about her abortion and other bodily functions are your cup of tea! I recommend the following weblog: http://dblackie.blog
s.com/ for further background to a 'British' initiative that may not be quite what Labour Ministers like Ruth Kelly and Gordon Brown had in mind when they proposed the idea of a festival of 'Britishness' and BC cultural engagement with Islam. The Scottish show is in another place and it includes Scottish Palestinian Rosalind Nashabishi.
I have to agree that Kirsty's hectoring of Alex Salmond was indeed out of character. As for picking fights, the 'English version' of that same Newsnight programme then went on to sing the praises of The British Council's efforts at 'cultural diplomacy in action' over in Venice at the Biennale. No mention of Scotland, Wales or Northern Ireland but a lot of tosh from Andrea Rose of The British Council who seems to have ignored advice and selected Tracy Emin for the so-called 'British' Pavilion. The result is scarcely representative of the UK unless of course the 60 drawings she dashed off in five hours about her abortion and other bodily functions are your cup of tea! I recommend the following weblog: http://dblackie.blog
s.com/ for further background to a 'British' initiative that may not be quite what Labour Ministers like Ruth Kelly and Gordon Brown had in mind when they proposed the idea of a festival of 'Britishness' and BC cultural engagement with Islam. The Scottish show is in another place and it includes Scottish Palestinian Rosalind Nashabishi.
Posted by: neil, Scotland on 2:39am Fri 8 Jun 07
One other case affected may be that of Omar Deghayes who is in Guantanamo and who Britain want to deport to Libya even though his father was assassinated by the regime there and he grew up in Britain. There is more information about this case on the website of Clive Stafford-Smith http://commentisfree
.guardian.co.uk/cliv
e_stafford_smith/200
7/01/post_898.html and on http://www.save-omar
.org.uk/
One other case affected may be that of Omar Deghayes who is in Guantanamo and who Britain want to deport to Libya even though his father was assassinated by the regime there and he grew up in Britain. There is more information about this case on the website of Clive Stafford-Smith http://commentisfree
.guardian.co.uk/cliv
e_stafford_smith/200
7/01/post_898.html and on http://www.save-omar
.org.uk/
Posted by: Los Angeles, Edinburgh on 2:57am Fri 8 Jun 07
Edward states correctly, [quote]It was also a fact that the only Libyan prisoner that we have is the one currently in Greenock Jail, being Abdelbaset Ali Mohmed al Megrahi . Who receives a visit from the Glasgow based Libyan consul at least once a week and who has been advised by said consul that there was a release imminent![/quote] I did not see the interview but it does not matter.
Under the Treaty of Union Scottish Law is sacrosanct - at least that was the agreement and the promise. Of course, it didn't take long for some poor soul of a criminal to appeal his conviction to the House of Lords which happily heard it, thus over-riding the Treaty. Precident set, Scottish Law was duly undermined.
Now we have a case of clandestine deals done without consultation or approval of the Scottish judiciary, the First Minister, and Scottish Law. Blair gets photographed shaking the Libyian leader by the hand - it used to be by the throat - but won't confide why to another democratically elected First Minister.
I thought the plane crashed into Lockerbie not Battersea.
As reported in another recent issue involving cavalier Labour politics, the cry went up from Westminster, "Who cares?"
Aye, right. Your disregard is noted. Keep it up. We need as many examples of blatant exclusion to prove what's been claimed for decades - Scotland is considered only a wee province.
Edward states correctly,
It was also a fact that the only Libyan prisoner that we have is the one currently in Greenock Jail, being Abdelbaset Ali Mohmed al Megrahi . Who receives a visit from the Glasgow based Libyan consul at least once a week and who has been advised by said consul that there was a release imminent!
I did not see the interview but it does not matter.
Under the Treaty of Union Scottish Law is sacrosanct - at least that was the agreement and the promise. Of course, it didn't take long for some poor soul of a criminal to appeal his conviction to the House of Lords which happily heard it, thus over-riding the Treaty. Precident set, Scottish Law was duly undermined.
Now we have a case of clandestine deals done without consultation or approval of the Scottish judiciary, the First Minister, and Scottish Law. Blair gets photographed shaking the Libyian leader by the hand - it used to be by the throat - but won't confide why to another democratically elected First Minister.
I thought the plane crashed into Lockerbie not Battersea.
As reported in another recent issue involving cavalier Labour politics, the cry went up from Westminster, "Who cares?"
Aye, right. Your disregard is noted. Keep it up. We need as many examples of blatant exclusion to prove what's been claimed for decades - Scotland is considered only a wee province.
Posted by: disgusting behavior by wark on 6:05am Fri 8 Jun 07
Wark is a disgrace to her profession and should not be allowed to carry on with her joke mcnumpty style rants,if she cannot interveiw people without behaving like a demented banshee, losing her cool,
and cutting people off in mid sentence then the bbc should get rid of her.Her attitude was the worst I have ever seen by a bbc interviewer.
Wark is a disgrace to her profession and should not be allowed to carry on with her joke mcnumpty style rants,if she cannot interveiw people without behaving like a demented banshee, losing her cool,
and cutting people off in mid sentence then the bbc should get rid of her.Her attitude was the worst I have ever seen by a bbc interviewer.
Posted by: donald anderson, glasgow on 6:33am Fri 8 Jun 07
Someone has a Union Jack coloured telly.
Kirsty well and truly flashed her Union Jack undergarments when she fell over in her sterrheid rammy rage against Scotland's First Minister.
I take it they won't be going on holiday together. I can't remember her attacking her comrade, Union Jack McConnell, on the many occasions she was duty bound to do so.
Someone has a Union Jack coloured telly.
Kirsty well and truly flashed her Union Jack undergarments when she fell over in her sterrheid rammy rage against Scotland's First Minister.
I take it they won't be going on holiday together. I can't remember her attacking her comrade, Union Jack McConnell, on the many occasions she was duty bound to do so.
Posted by: somerferg, oz on 6:46am Fri 8 Jun 07
Well, well Scotleag looks like you are in the minority on the Wark Vs. Alex Salmond debate. Having watched it have to agree with the majority - she looked and sounded like a complete fool and Alex Salmond mopped the floor with her - oh diddums maybe her wee pal Joke McHopeless will come to her rescue.
Well, well Scotleag looks like you are in the minority on the Wark Vs. Alex Salmond debate. Having watched it have to agree with the majority - she looked and sounded like a complete fool and Alex Salmond mopped the floor with her - oh diddums maybe her wee pal Joke McHopeless will come to her rescue.
Posted by: consistency on 7:00am Fri 8 Jun 07
To be fair to K Wark - and I am not a fan, and her interview with Salmond was unprofessional - she then moved on to give David Cairns, the Scotland Office Minister, a 'Paxman' too.
To be fair to K Wark - and I am not a fan, and her interview with Salmond was unprofessional - she then moved on to give David Cairns, the Scotland Office Minister, a 'Paxman' too.
Posted by: Swilly Tisher, Loch Maree on 7:08am Fri 8 Jun 07
Stand firm , Alex. Let justice prevail. By God , we're in safe hands at Holyrood nowadays.
Stand firm , Alex. Let justice prevail. By God , we're in safe hands at Holyrood nowadays.
Posted by: brian, renfrew on 7:35am Fri 8 Jun 07
Strange stuff indeed. Was Kirsty Wark really trying to say that the First Minister should have kept his gub shut when he became aware of this document ? He must be the first Politicain grilled by a Journo for revealing information to the parliament and public? Did she really acuse him of needlessly upsetting the relatives of victims of the bombing, after all the the flannel of the last 20 years a bit of real information is probably very welcome. It might prove to be a mountain out of a mole hill but the Scots Parliament and the Scots public have the right to know about all potential mole hills and potential mountains. Kirsty obviously needs a holiday , all this electioneering must have taken it's toll.
Strange stuff indeed. Was Kirsty Wark really trying to say that the First Minister should have kept his gub shut when he became aware of this document ? He must be the first Politicain grilled by a Journo for revealing information to the parliament and public? Did she really acuse him of needlessly upsetting the relatives of victims of the bombing, after all the the flannel of the last 20 years a bit of real information is probably very welcome. It might prove to be a mountain out of a mole hill but the Scots Parliament and the Scots public have the right to know about all potential mole hills and potential mountains. Kirsty obviously needs a holiday , all this electioneering must have taken it's toll.
Posted by: Fraser, Lanarkshire on 8:11am Fri 8 Jun 07
Jeez, got to admire the SNP party machine, Wark gives Salmond a hard time and this site gets flooded with abuse, wow talk about slick. And point which seems to have escaped even the politicians up here, the UK government represents a bigger constituancy than Scotland, there is more than one Lybian in the UK penal system, this just smacks of Salmon picking fights and it is so going to backfire.
Jeez, got to admire the SNP party machine, Wark gives Salmond a hard time and this site gets flooded with abuse, wow talk about slick. And point which seems to have escaped even the politicians up here, the UK government represents a bigger constituancy than Scotland, there is more than one Lybian in the UK penal system, this just smacks of Salmon picking fights and it is so going to backfire.
Posted by: Bruce, Glasgow on 8:34am Fri 8 Jun 07
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