Tommy Burns and the louts at Mass
Much has been written about Tommy Burns and his wonderful Celtic career. Tommy often attended Mass at St Alphonso's Church at the Barras market in Calton, Glasgow.
A few years ago, when I was reading the epistles at St Alphonso's, we had a visiting African priest who was hosting Mass one Saturday evening. The priest was taking a bit of harassment from two louts who had drifted into the church.
I was on the altar preparing to read the Prayer of the Faithful and the two louts shouted at me to "get on with it". I gave them a Govan look and just over their heads I saw in his pew Tommy, ashen white and showing dignified restraint. Unfortunately, I told them to "shut up". Fortunately, the idiots were ushered out for their own safety.
I decided not to read at Mass again as I knew in my heart what I thought about the two morons who insulted our priest and desecrated our Mass that day.
After Mass, Tommy and I looked at each other and we both smiled and said nothing. That was the last time I saw him in person. He was a great Roman Catholic and humanitarian.
Frank J Dougan,
347-2/1 Pollokshaws Road, Glasgow.
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Posted by: Clare, Lanarkshire on 10:28pm Fri 16 May 08
Two things. I believe the church in question is St Alphonsus' Church on London Road, near the Barras. The second thing is that Tommy Burns has been confirmed this week as someone who respected people regardless of their religion. His religion was a private thing.
I thought the tributes from Walter Smith and Ally McCoist said a great deal about the sort of man Burns was. I also thought that the Herald's picture of Smith and Burns laughing at something or other, contained in the selection the Herald put together, summed up their genuine regard and respect for each other not to mention their friendship. I don't think for Burns that it was about being a great Roman Catholic, it was about being a good man.
Two things. I believe the church in question is St Alphonsus' Church on London Road, near the Barras. The second thing is that Tommy Burns has been confirmed this week as someone who respected people regardless of their religion. His religion was a private thing.
I thought the tributes from Walter Smith and Ally McCoist said a great deal about the sort of man Burns was. I also thought that the Herald's picture of Smith and Burns laughing at something or other, contained in the selection the Herald put together, summed up their genuine regard and respect for each other not to mention their friendship. I don't think for Burns that it was about being a great Roman Catholic, it was about being a good man.
Posted by: Observer, Glasgow on 10:43pm Fri 16 May 08
May I agree wholehearetedly with Clare, the death of a good man has been acknowledged not just only by both ''sides'' but also from those with no side. He was a good man, that is a fact. But he was also a good Catholic and a great Celtic man, there's nowt wrong with that. One Scotland many cultures, I respect them all.
May I agree wholehearetedly with Clare, the death of a good man has been acknowledged not just only by both ''sides'' but also from those with no side. He was a good man, that is a fact. But he was also a good Catholic and a great Celtic man, there's nowt wrong with that. One Scotland many cultures, I respect them all.
Posted by: Tim on 11:48pm Fri 16 May 08
It is interesting, that, if I am correct, the church here that Mr. Burns attended is the one that the mis-named Tridentine Latin Mass was exiled as a token gesture to late on a Sunday afternoon.
Your letter-writer's choice of verbs is somewhat odd. Priests celebrate or say Mass, Novus Ordo or otherwise. They don't, as at secular events, host Mass; although, with some of the antics taking place on altars throughout the world, he may, inadvertently, have stumbled on an appropriate verb.
As to Clare's comments: "His religion was a private thing" and "I don't think for Burns that it was about being a great Roman Catholic, it was about being a good man. " So-called Catholic politicians, since the time of Kennedy, have used the first as a cover for their endorsement, support and facilitation of abortion and other sinful aspects of what John Paul 2 referred to accurately as the "Culture of Death." As to the man's Faith, unless Mr. Burns told the poster or there is a public record of what he thought regarding the importance of his Faith, that this was so, how does she know this?
It is interesting, that, if I am correct, the church here that Mr. Burns attended is the one that the mis-named Tridentine Latin Mass was exiled as a token gesture to late on a Sunday afternoon.
Your letter-writer's choice of verbs is somewhat odd. Priests celebrate or say Mass, Novus Ordo or otherwise. They don't, as at secular events, host Mass; although, with some of the antics taking place on altars throughout the world, he may, inadvertently, have stumbled on an appropriate verb.
As to Clare's comments: "His religion was a private thing" and "I don't think for Burns that it was about being a great Roman Catholic, it was about being a good man. " So-called Catholic politicians, since the time of Kennedy, have used the first as a cover for their endorsement, support and facilitation of abortion and other sinful aspects of what John Paul 2 referred to accurately as the "Culture of Death." As to the man's Faith, unless Mr. Burns told the poster or there is a public record of what he thought regarding the importance of his Faith, that this was so, how does she know this?
Posted by: Clare, Lanarkshire on 12:02am Sat 17 May 08
[quote][bold]Tim[/bold] wrote:
It is interesting, that, if I am correct, the church here that Mr. Burns attended is the one that the mis-named Tridentine Latin Mass was exiled as a token gesture to late on a Sunday afternoon. Your letter-writer's choice of verbs is somewhat odd. Priests celebrate or say Mass, Novus Ordo or otherwise. They don't, as at secular events, host Mass; although, with some of the antics taking place on altars throughout the world, he may, inadvertently, have stumbled on an appropriate verb. As to Clare's comments: "His religion was a private thing" and "I don't think for Burns that it was about being a great Roman Catholic, it was about being a good man. " So-called Catholic politicians, since the time of Kennedy, have used the first as a cover for their endorsement, support and facilitation of abortion and other sinful aspects of what John Paul 2 referred to accurately as the "Culture of Death." As to the man's Faith, unless Mr. Burns told the poster or there is a public record of what he thought regarding the importance of his Faith, that this was so, how does she know this?[/quote] Tim, I'm not going there on any of the points you raise.
Tim wrote:
It is interesting, that, if I am correct, the church here that Mr. Burns attended is the one that the mis-named Tridentine Latin Mass was exiled as a token gesture to late on a Sunday afternoon. Your letter-writer's choice of verbs is somewhat odd. Priests celebrate or say Mass, Novus Ordo or otherwise. They don't, as at secular events, host Mass; although, with some of the antics taking place on altars throughout the world, he may, inadvertently, have stumbled on an appropriate verb. As to Clare's comments: "His religion was a private thing" and "I don't think for Burns that it was about being a great Roman Catholic, it was about being a good man. " So-called Catholic politicians, since the time of Kennedy, have used the first as a cover for their endorsement, support and facilitation of abortion and other sinful aspects of what John Paul 2 referred to accurately as the "Culture of Death." As to the man's Faith, unless Mr. Burns told the poster or there is a public record of what he thought regarding the importance of his Faith, that this was so, how does she know this?
Tim, I'm not going there on any of the points you raise.
Posted by: BM, Glasgow on 12:04am Sat 17 May 08
I would have thought that if the letter writer actually read at that church he would have known its name - there is no "St. Alphonso's " in Glasgow, op indeed in Scotland. He says "I was on the altar preparing to read." Really? I have never known anyone to stand on an altar to do a reading, or even stand on an altar at all. And no-one reads "the epistles." There are normally three readings, only one of which can, but does not have to be, from an epistle. Also, as someone else has pointed out, no priest "hosts" Mass - he says or celebrates it. A very strange letter indeed!
I would have thought that if the letter writer actually read at that church he would have known its name - there is no "St. Alphonso's " in Glasgow, op indeed in Scotland. He says "I was on the altar preparing to read." Really? I have never known anyone to stand on an altar to do a reading, or even stand on an altar at all. And no-one reads "the epistles." There are normally three readings, only one of which can, but does not have to be, from an epistle. Also, as someone else has pointed out, no priest "hosts" Mass - he says or celebrates it. A very strange letter indeed!
Posted by: Bill Irvine, West Lothian on 12:14am Sat 17 May 08
Tommy Burns.
A good Scot.
A good Christian.
A good man.
We are all the lesser for his going.
Tommy Burns.
A good Scot.
A good Christian.
A good man.
We are all the lesser for his going.
Posted by: weegie, here on 9:45am Sat 17 May 08
[quote]quote[/quote] I would have thought that if the letter writer actually read at that church he would have known its name - there is no "St. Alphonso's " in Glasgow, op indeed in Scotland.. as BM wrote..
perhaps you need to check your details follow this link http://www.alphonsus
.fsbusiness.co.uk/ read the parish info then rethink your comment..
My thoughts are with Tommy's family in this stressful time... I know Tommy is at peace rested and organising the youth team in heaven
quote
I would have thought that if the letter writer actually read at that church he would have known its name - there is no "St. Alphonso's " in Glasgow, op indeed in Scotland.. as BM wrote..
perhaps you need to check your details follow this link http://www.alphonsus
.fsbusiness.co.uk/ read the parish info then rethink your comment..
My thoughts are with Tommy's family in this stressful time... I know Tommy is at peace rested and organising the youth team in heaven
Posted by: Clare, Lanarkshire on 9:51am Sat 17 May 08
Weegie, yes, I thought the St Alphono's bit was odd too as I pointed out in my earlier post.
Weegie, yes, I thought the St Alphono's bit was odd too as I pointed out in my earlier post.
Posted by: chris walker, west kilbride on 9:57am Sat 17 May 08
I'd like to offer a thought ot two, if I may, on Tommy Burns. He always brought his beloved Celtic to West Kilbride, specifically to Seamill Hydro which is an integral part of our village. It's about a mile from the Hydro to the chapel in WK through a lovely linear space called the Glen. My wife Irene would regularly meet Tommy in the Glen while walking the dogs. I say regularly because Tommy Burns went to church every day or so it seemed. He always said 'hello' and patted the dogs. Just a wee unimportant anecdote although one that speaks so eloquently of Tommy.
Some very gracious posts led by Clare's, 'Gracious': now there's a word that summed up Mr Tommy Burns.
I'd like to offer a thought ot two, if I may, on Tommy Burns. He always brought his beloved Celtic to West Kilbride, specifically to Seamill Hydro which is an integral part of our village. It's about a mile from the Hydro to the chapel in WK through a lovely linear space called the Glen. My wife Irene would regularly meet Tommy in the Glen while walking the dogs. I say regularly because Tommy Burns went to church every day or so it seemed. He always said 'hello' and patted the dogs. Just a wee unimportant anecdote although one that speaks so eloquently of Tommy.
Some very gracious posts led by Clare's, 'Gracious': now there's a word that summed up Mr Tommy Burns.
Posted by: sam, greenock on 10:40am Sat 17 May 08
[quote][bold]Clare[/bold] wrote:
Two things. I believe the church in question is St Alphonsus' Church on London Road, near the Barras. The second thing is that Tommy Burns has been confirmed this week as someone who respected people regardless of their religion. His religion was a private thing. I thought the tributes from Walter Smith and Ally McCoist said a great deal about the sort of man Burns was. I also thought that the Herald's picture of Smith and Burns laughing at something or other, contained in the selection the Herald put together, summed up their genuine regard and respect for each other not to mention their friendship. I don't think for Burns that it was about being a great Roman Catholic, it was about being a good man. [/quote]
[quote]His religion was a private thing.[/quote]
[quote]I don't think for Burns that it was about being a great Roman Catholic, it was about being a good man.[/quote]
Well said Clare,
Clare wrote:
Two things. I believe the church in question is St Alphonsus' Church on London Road, near the Barras. The second thing is that Tommy Burns has been confirmed this week as someone who respected people regardless of their religion. His religion was a private thing. I thought the tributes from Walter Smith and Ally McCoist said a great deal about the sort of man Burns was. I also thought that the Herald's picture of Smith and Burns laughing at something or other, contained in the selection the Herald put together, summed up their genuine regard and respect for each other not to mention their friendship. I don't think for Burns that it was about being a great Roman Catholic, it was about being a good man.
His religion was a private thing.
I don't think for Burns that it was about being a great Roman Catholic, it was about being a good man.
Well said Clare,
Posted by: sam, greenock on 10:43am Sat 17 May 08
[quote][bold]Clare[/bold] wrote:
[quote][bold]Tim[/bold] wrote: It is interesting, that, if I am correct, the church here that Mr. Burns attended is the one that the mis-named Tridentine Latin Mass was exiled as a token gesture to late on a Sunday afternoon. Your letter-writer's choice of verbs is somewhat odd. Priests celebrate or say Mass, Novus Ordo or otherwise. They don't, as at secular events, host Mass; although, with some of the antics taking place on altars throughout the world, he may, inadvertently, have stumbled on an appropriate verb. As to Clare's comments: "His religion was a private thing" and "I don't think for Burns that it was about being a great Roman Catholic, it was about being a good man. " So-called Catholic politicians, since the time of Kennedy, have used the first as a cover for their endorsement, support and facilitation of abortion and other sinful aspects of what John Paul 2 referred to accurately as the "Culture of Death." As to the man's Faith, unless Mr. Burns told the poster or there is a public record of what he thought regarding the importance of his Faith, that this was so, how does she know this?[/quote] Tim, I'm not going there on any of the points you raise. [/quote] Clare,
Thats twice I've posted in agreement with you today...........
Clare wrote:
Tim wrote: It is interesting, that, if I am correct, the church here that Mr. Burns attended is the one that the mis-named Tridentine Latin Mass was exiled as a token gesture to late on a Sunday afternoon. Your letter-writer's choice of verbs is somewhat odd. Priests celebrate or say Mass, Novus Ordo or otherwise. They don't, as at secular events, host Mass; although, with some of the antics taking place on altars throughout the world, he may, inadvertently, have stumbled on an appropriate verb. As to Clare's comments: "His religion was a private thing" and "I don't think for Burns that it was about being a great Roman Catholic, it was about being a good man. " So-called Catholic politicians, since the time of Kennedy, have used the first as a cover for their endorsement, support and facilitation of abortion and other sinful aspects of what John Paul 2 referred to accurately as the "Culture of Death." As to the man's Faith, unless Mr. Burns told the poster or there is a public record of what he thought regarding the importance of his Faith, that this was so, how does she know this?
Tim, I'm not going there on any of the points you raise.
Clare,
Thats twice I've posted in agreement with you today...........
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